How much impact does a generals death have on army morale?

**antisocialmunky** · 07-21-2009, 04:57

Originally Posted by teh1337tim

let me ask you a question. If alexander died right in front of your face by some big smelly dude,
would you

A. run for your lifes
B. kill the smelly dude
C. Kill smelly dude then run for your life

There was that one time he jumped into that wall city all by himself and the rest of his men where like "Did he just do that?" and broke several ladders trying to all scale the wall at once to save him butt only to see him get shot by an arrow.

So D. "Damnit Leroy..."

**CBR** · 07-21-2009, 05:14

IIRC the impact is something like a -8 in morale for 20-25 seconds and then it goes down to a permanent -2. So yes a general dying at the right time, when lots of his units are fighting, can mean a big chain rout.

CBR

**Teleklos Archelaou** · 07-21-2009, 06:30

Originally Posted by CBR

IIRC the impact is something like a -8 in morale for 20-25 seconds and then it goes down to a permanent -2. So yes a general dying at the right time, when lots of his units are fighting, can mean a big chain rout.

CBR

Interesting CBR. I didn't know that.

**John the Mad** · 07-21-2009, 08:04

Originally Posted by CBR

IIRC the impact is something like a -8 in morale for 20-25 seconds and then it goes down to a permanent -2. So yes a general dying at the right time, when lots of his units are fighting, can mean a big chain rout.

CBR

That explains it then.

Though i still wonder though why some armies stay and fight it out after their generals death and others call it a day.I think the Carthos could have won the battle as many of their units had two chevrons to one or none for mine.

I must have ordered the counter-charge while they were suffering the morale penalty.Theres no other way to explain intact units running away as they did.

**strategos roma** · 07-21-2009, 08:12

I just had the same experience in KH campaign. There were 3000 maks against 2300 of mine, but with only a captain. The fighiting was really fierce on the right flank, while their left was unengaged. Their captain got killed by a Spartan and all the units around him fled. Their left then ran, leaving me with 100 dead aganst 2300 of theirs.

**Chris1959** · 07-21-2009, 08:59

History is littered with close fought battles that rapidly become routs upon the death of a leader, so I personally follow Alexander's example and go all out for the enemy general

**Kikaz** · 07-23-2009, 05:04

Originally Posted by Chris1959

History is littered with close fought battles that rapidly become routs upon the death of a leader, so I personally follow Alexander's example and go all out for the enemy general

I find that masses of Leuce Epos (or Curepos) are the perfect assassins in western Europe.

**miotas** · 07-21-2009, 09:16

Originally Posted by CBR

IIRC the impact is something like a -8 in morale for 20-25 seconds and then it goes down to a permanent -2. So yes a general dying at the right time, when lots of his units are fighting, can mean a big chain rout.

CBR

Wouldn't they also lose any bonuses the general had been providing to nearby units? So would they go from +x morale to -8?

The reaction to a killed leader would surely vary depending on the leader and the people following him. I imagine that there were some situations where a beloved leader was cut down, that it sent his followers into a frenzy, fighting furiously to avenge his death. In most situations though I imagine it would most likey cause a rout.

**CBR** · 07-21-2009, 12:57

Originally Posted by miotas

Wouldn't they also lose any bonuses the general had been providing to nearby units? So would they go from +x morale to -8?

AFAIK a dead general means you lose all the bonuses from command stars and virtues etc.

Can't remember the specifics but I do believe it is something like all units in an army gaining one attack point and one morale point for each command star the general has.

So the loss of a general means units revert back to default stats + whatever upgrades they have themselves. If they were in a melee, and the dead general was a high star one, then the loss in attack points could mean they go from winning to losing, which also means a morale penalty instead of a bonus.

Charging a unit can mean a rather big morale penalty to the receiving unit. It does depend on the discipline stat of a unit though IIRC. So when a general dies it could be seen as a good time for charging in ASAP.

CBR

**/Bean\** · 07-21-2009, 12:57

Does experience affect morale? Because I've found that later in the campaigns (when there are more high experience enemy armies around) that they take a lot more to rout than recently recruited units, even if they are elites.

**antisocialmunky** · 07-21-2009, 13:18

Originally Posted by CBR

IIRC the impact is something like a -8 in morale for 20-25 seconds and then it goes down to a permanent -2. So yes a general dying at the right time, when lots of his units are fighting, can mean a big chain rout.

CBR

What's your source? I've been trying to get a list of RTW Morale penalties and bonuses, can't find them in Ludus Magna though.

**CBR** · 07-21-2009, 13:41

Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

What's your source? I've been trying to get a list of RTW Morale penalties and bonuses, can't find them in Ludus Magna though.

That was the morale penalties in MTW and IIRC our tests in RTW showed a similar system (don't think we tested it that much though). Both games have similar morale ranges for units so it should not be that different anyway.

CA never released any details of the combat/morale modifiers for RTW so a lot of it is pretty sketchy I'm afraid. But it does seem pretty close to the older engine, just with a few additions.

Edit: when I mentioned discipline in an earlier post it is something to lower the impact of "morale shocks" I think it was called. It is not clear what such morale shocks is. It could mean getting hit by a charge (which I'm quite certain of) and also surprised by a hidden unit, but also the effect from a general dying. So units that are very poor at handling such shocks might even receive a worse penalty than the one described.

CBR

**John the Mad** · 07-21-2009, 07:55

Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

There was that one time he jumped into that wall city all by himself and the rest of his men where like "Did he just do that?" and broke several ladders trying to all scale the wall at once to save him butt only to see him get shot by an arrow.

So D. "Damnit Leroy..."

That was in modern day India.If i'm not mistaken some believe that led to the abortion of his conquest and ultimatily his death.The reason why he did that was that his men were hesitating and he led by example soon after they overran the walls.