Das Pikes

**antisocialmunky** · 07-24-2009, 04:57

Just out of curiosity, how did you get around some of the really sad pike behavior for EBII? I haven't seem them work well except with no secondaries.

**Ibrahim** · 07-24-2009, 05:08

Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

Just out of curiosity, how did you get around some of the really sad pike behavior for EBII? I haven't seem them work well except with no secondaries.

new animations and stats?

**antisocialmunky** · 07-24-2009, 13:56

Animations can fix pikes switching to secondary swords at the first opportunity?

**Phalanx300** · 07-24-2009, 18:17

Apparantly they can, just look at the Phalangite preview. Also Phalangites can't do the turn around with the entire formation thing, when you flank them they have no choice but to use swords!

And Hoplites would be getting shieldwall yet in the latest video they don't have it.

**Apraxiteles** · 07-24-2009, 20:15

I don't think M2TW has shieldwall. As far as I know, there isn't a single unit in vanilla that uses it, and the same is true of Kingdoms.

**Taliferno** · 07-24-2009, 20:55

Originally Posted by Apraxiteles

I don't think M2TW has shieldwall. As far as I know, there isn't a single unit in vanilla that uses it, and the same is true of Kingdoms.

Its in, but not used. Other mods use it.

**JMRC** · 07-25-2009, 00:06

There are many variables to make the phalanx work, but the main changes are:

- new models with longer spear
- new animations to change the behavior of the individual within the formation
- change "impact frames" within descr_skeleton.txt to alter the impact points in each animation
- change "strike_distances" within descr_skeleton.txt to force the units to grab the secondary weapons at closer ranges
- change the boundingspheres of the models (within each unit mesh) to give them more "mass"
- change the EDU values

**antisocialmunky** · 07-25-2009, 04:20

Originally Posted by JMRC

- new models with longer spear

Cool, I thought it was something simple like that by itself.

**Phalanx300** · 07-25-2009, 14:13

Originally Posted by JMRC

There are many variables to make the phalanx work, but the main changes are:

- new models with longer spear
- new animations to change the behavior of the individual within the formation
- change "impact frames" within descr_skeleton.txt to alter the impact points in each animation
- change "strike_distances" within descr_skeleton.txt to force the units to grab the secondary weapons at closer ranges
- change the boundingspheres of the models (within each unit mesh) to give them more "mass"
- change the EDU values

Nice, I'm wondering though, will it ever be possible to have 5 ranks of Sarissa? And will you also be able to penetrate it from the fron with enough pressure? (In videos units just magically stopped when touching the front spears)

**JMRC** · 07-25-2009, 16:40

The only way to have 5 ranks of lowered pikes is to have all the ranks with the lowered pikes as well. This is because the vanilla phalanx only has 4 types of ranks (1st rank in knees, 2nd rank in normal stance, 3rd rank with overhand pikes and back ranks). The 3rd rank only appears in guard mode. We could make all ranks get their spears down to greater effect as stopping power, but it wouldn't be realistic, as I can't imagine more than 5 ranks having their spears lowered without hitting some companions in the front ranks or without messing up the formation. So, in EBII we use only the first 3 ranks.

As for penetration power, all units can eventually get into close range, but their first impact will be minimal. They can only penetrate by slowly moving through the pikes. Exceptions exist of course: other phalanxes and most notably elephants. The large Indian elephants can penetrate the phalanx more or less easily, although a concentrated mass of pikes can make them stop and get killed. So, you know the drill: get the elephants in front and break through the phalanx, then charge with swordsmen units to prevent the phalanx from reorganizing, then hit with a cavalry charge in the flank. Of course, this is theoretical, because a good adversary will deploy javelinmen in front and sides of the phalanx and kill as many elephants as possible and guard the flanks with spearmen and rear with swordsmen, to protect the phalangites' retreat when the melee starts.

**Phalanx300** · 07-25-2009, 21:11

Sounds great and much more realistic.

Any more information on the shieldwall in EB2?

**antisocialmunky** · 07-26-2009, 05:18

Of course, we're just going to make 3 row thick phalangite lines and stick them one behind another.

**Phalanx300** · 07-26-2009, 15:32

Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

Of course, we're just going to make 3 row thick phalangite lines and stick them one behind another.

I don't think that will be necesarry, look at the stopping power of this (besides that fact that Pezhetairoi would be able to keep their own in sword combat):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGff-muPIis