Are we better off without pants?

[Vasiliyi]

Its true, our winters are cold, but our summers are mild/cool (sometimes) and very humid. In fact, this entire week has been pretty humid. Sorry for the OT.

To make this post decent, id like to add that I probably wouldn't want to wear a toga, so pants/shorts are all that are left.

[miotas]

Or that Arabian dress mentioned by Ibrahim. Actually if it wouldn't look weird I would wear turban or hat all summer.

I agree that it would be cooler, but I don't think it would be as practical as trousers, and why is wearing a hat when it's hot weird?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I do

[Aemilius Paulus]

So what would Romans wear in/near the Alps, in the winter?

[Mikhail Mengsk]

I think pants were introduced by eastern peoples who used them for riding horses. Their use would have become common in roman-barbarian kingdoms, i think. Anyway, they are obviously better for riding and for rough terrains, where larger tunics would become trapped by plants, spikes, and other similar.

All of this is IMHO, i've no historical evidence of that.

@Aemilius- they wear their standard clothes, i think. Culture is hard to change, even if you are freezing your jewels XD

[Power2the1]

Personally, I wear both pants and my kilt whenever it suits my fancy. Mainly, though, its to show a little bit of pride in my Scottish ancestry and, in my own way, fight a minuscule battle against the 'sheep-like' conformists putting a damper on one's own personal expression, whatever that may be. Also, its to encourage others of Scottish ancestry that its 'ok' to break away every now and then and experience something much more fulfilling in wearing a little piece of (your) history.

Here is a pic that my wife took of me at the carwash:


This was long before I started lifting weights so I look rather skinny:


Seriously though, its a great experience wearing the kilt. Heres a few reasons why:

1) I've gotten pretty much 100% positive feedback from a lot of folks that are total strangers but that approach me because of it and we start of a nice lil' conversation about it. That alone make it worth it.

2) My clan is Mac Leod of Harris if anyone is wondering. Same as Duncan Mac Leod of Highlander fame. You become twice as cool in your kilt when you mention that fact hehe...

3) Thought I am very happily married, chicks do dig it and I have been asked by a few if I "wear anything under the kilt." You won't get that kind of attention or question wearing pants!

4) Those pics are over a year old, and I've since started lifting weights. Therefore the physical intimidation factor goes through the roof and its a great deterrent for any English enemies out there that may wish to start something with me (lol).

5) The kilt keeps your, eh, 'manhood' nice and cool as you walk due to the breeze created from the sway of the kilt, and in the winter keeps certain areas of the said region from retreating into your abdomen...seriously. It is the *perfect* comfort and it agrees with your male anatomy far better than pants do.

So if you have Scots blood/ancestry I encourage you to find what clan your are aligned with and get yourself a kilt! Concerning the thread topic, I do not think that were are better off without pants, I will say from everyday experience that both pants and kilts have their own set of advantages.

[Andronikos]

why is wearing a hat when it's hot weird?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I do

I believe it is not, but in my country among young people yes. Baseball caps or bucket caps (I don't know if it is considered being a hat) are more common. Man wearing a hat is a rare sight in the streets.

[The Persian Cataphract]

I'll be blunt.

Trousers are useful because they are, de facto, more versatile and practical than togas (Taking several hours to properly arrange), kilts or dishdasha-robes; first of all, they protect the legs better from cold and surfaces which could cause chafing while at the same time retaining most if not all of the mobility with little hindrance, in difference to a long tunic-robe like the dishdasha.

Another useful property with direct military consequence was heat loss; only idiots wear leg armour of any kind without a cloth-backing or spolas. Same gor any limb or part of the body, really. Fact is, this philosophy was applied to wearing loose clothing on top of the armour as well for the exact same reasons providing double isolation. Eventually Graeco-Roman fashions would adopt several aspects from Partho-Sassanian styles, which can be seen in early Byzantine art and onwards.

The adoption of trousers is actually quite a rational process; Herodotus makes an admission for the Persian entrepreneurship to have discovered most of the world, either by sea (Sataspes) or by horse-back (Likely the medium of transportation used by Scylax of Caryanda). Because there was no faster means of transportation than by horse, it also comes as no surprise to read about laudatory passages of the Greeks in regards to the Achaemenid royal couriers. The royal road itself was obviously built for swift horseback transportation between Lydia, Cappadocia, Babylon, Elam and into Persis.

Trousers are worn today, because we'd look like tools in elaborate blankets which take several hours to arrange just for shits and kicks. The Kandys/Kantûsh also prevailed against the Chlamys, as our jackets and sweaters resemble the former model the most. Practical clothing catches on everywhere.

[IrishHitman]

well, arabs conquered more land than the romans, while wearing Kilts

Yeah, but looked who they conquered and how.
Easy pickings except for the Persians.

[Ibrahim]

Yeah, but looked who they conquered and how.
Easy pickings except for the Persians.

I know-I'm just jk.

in any event, I must say, practical or not, a properly worn persian pants or roman tunic, or modern dishdashas, pants, or highland kilts are all way better than this

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

if there is anything more impracticle, then its having your pants like you're about to use the toilet

[bobbin]

Ha! can't agree more, there was a boy in my old school who used to wear his jeans so low there was actually a gap you coulds see through between the top of his trousers and his boxers. Most unpleasent.

[abou]

I'm quite fond of the University of Edinburgh tartan. I should probably get one since renting it for every special occasion will wrack my wallet.

[Megas Methuselah]

5) The kilt keeps your, eh, 'manhood' nice and cool as you walk due to the breeze created from the sway of the kilt, and in the winter keeps certain areas of the said region from retreating into your abdomen...seriously. It is the *perfect* comfort and it agrees with your male anatomy far better than pants do.

Heh heh. I used to know this one punk back in high school who wore his kilt quite often. When I would ask him why, he'd respond, "Because I like the wind on my balls."

But I'm guessing this would be another reason, too:

3) Thought I am very happily married, chicks do dig it and I have been asked by a few if I "wear anything under the kilt." You won't get that kind of attention or question wearing pants!

[Watchman]

Conclusion - chicks dig guys who wear skirts.

[IrishHitman]

Ha! can't agree more, there was a boy in my old school who used to wear his jeans so low there was actually a gap you coulds see through between the top of his trousers and his boxers. Most unpleasent.

What?

Barbaroi Americans....

CRUCIFY AND/OR ENSLAVE SUCH PEOPLE.

[bobbin]

1) I've gotten pretty much 100% positive feedback from a lot of folks that are total strangers but that approach me because of it and we start of a nice lil' conversation about it. That alone make it worth it.

Being scottish I wouldn't get this as much as whenever you see somone wearing a kilt in scotland you just assume there's a wedding nearby (which is usually the case). There is a guy near where i live who walks around in a Great Kilt though, now that turns heads.

2) My clan is Mac Leod of Harris if anyone is wondering. Same as Duncan Mac Leod of Highlander fame. You become twice as cool in your kilt when you mention that fact hehe...

Mines is MacDonald of the Isles, I'm sure at some point down the line of history our ancestors were knocking lumps out of each other on a bog somewhere.

3) Thought I am very happily married, chicks do dig it and I have been asked by a few if I "wear anything under the kilt." You won't get that kind of attention or question wearing pants!

Even in scotland somone will invariably say this at least once, it almost a tradition!

5) The kilt keeps your, eh, 'manhood' nice and cool as you walk due to the breeze created from the sway of the kilt, and in the winter keeps certain areas of the said region from retreating into your abdomen...seriously. It is the *perfect* comfort and it agrees with your male anatomy far better than pants do.

They are surprisingly warm but when the wind gets up it can be a pain. Plus there's the whole etiquette on sitting down with out exposing yourself
ps: my clans tartan

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

On the OT i pretty much hold the same veiw as The Persian Cataphract in that the main reason for the adoption of trousers is practicality, there was a reason highlanders took off their kilts before battle.

[Celtic_Punk]

jeans like those foolish scene or emo kids wear are extremely bad. A good pair of semi baggy pants of a breathable material are best. I like wearing my old BDU pants on the regular because they're made of breathable material plus they give me a lovely amount of room down there.

I live in Canada, it's either shorts or pants in the summer, Pants are a must in the winter. Unless you're a damned fool

[bobbin]

What?

Barbaroi Americans....

CRUCIFY AND/OR ENSLAVE SUCH PEOPLE.

He was scottish actually but no doubt wished he was born in Compton.

[IrishHitman]

He was scottish actually but no doubt wished he was born in Compton.

Athena preserve us..
A Scot, abandoning his hardy nature to act like a soft twat?!?!?

[Atilius]

I for one have to say that Pants are overrated. Honostly, if i could, i probably wouldnt wear them. It gets so humid here in minnesota that its unbearable to wear pants. Shorts are ok, but pants, meh.

Gah! What about mid-January when it's twenty below and you're outside trying to get your @!#%&@!!! car started? Don't you want to have children?

Trousers are useful because they are, de facto, more versatile and practical than togas ..., kilts or dishdasha-robes; ...

Indeed, sir.

I'd like to add a little-known fact: pants can save your life.

Should one be so unfortunate as to be accidentally precipitated out of a water craft and in to the, uh..., water, one need only slip out of one's trousers, tie the trouser legs together near their bottoms, grasp the trousers firmly by the waistband above the water and then bring them down sharply, submerging the waistband. This action forces air into the trouser legs, and by keeping the waistband submerged in front of one while placing one's head between the inflated trouser legs, and leaning back so that one's head rests on the knot tying the legs together, one has an improvised life jacket.

It actually works; I had to do it in order to get a merit badge when I was a boy scout. Regrettably, the air leaks out in about 30 seconds or so, but you just repeat the process. It's better than treading water anyway. Or drowning.

[Phalanx300]

Personally, I wear both pants and my kilt whenever it suits my fancy. Mainly, though, its to show a little bit of pride in my Scottish ancestry and, in my own way, fight a minuscule battle against the 'sheep-like' conformists putting a damper on one's own personal expression, whatever that may be. Also, its to encourage others of Scottish ancestry that its 'ok' to break away every now and then and experience something much more fulfilling in wearing a little piece of (your) history.

Here is a pic that my wife took of me at the carwash:


This was long before I started lifting weights so I look rather skinny:


Seriously though, its a great experience wearing the kilt. Heres a few reasons why:

1) I've gotten pretty much 100% positive feedback from a lot of folks that are total strangers but that approach me because of it and we start of a nice lil' conversation about it. That alone make it worth it.

2) My clan is Mac Leod of Harris if anyone is wondering. Same as Duncan Mac Leod of Highlander fame. You become twice as cool in your kilt when you mention that fact hehe...

3) Thought I am very happily married, chicks do dig it and I have been asked by a few if I "wear anything under the kilt." You won't get that kind of attention or question wearing pants!

4) Those pics are over a year old, and I've since started lifting weights. Therefore the physical intimidation factor goes through the roof and its a great deterrent for any English enemies out there that may wish to start something with me (lol).

5) The kilt keeps your, eh, 'manhood' nice and cool as you walk due to the breeze created from the sway of the kilt, and in the winter keeps certain areas of the said region from retreating into your abdomen...seriously. It is the *perfect* comfort and it agrees with your male anatomy far better than pants do.

So if you have Scots blood/ancestry I encourage you to find what clan your are aligned with and get yourself a kilt! Concerning the thread topic, I do not think that were are better off without pants, I will say from everyday experience that both pants and kilts have their own set of advantages.

Supises me you aren't having Casse in your sig as well seing the Highlander spirit.


And it depends on your location I gues, many people around the mediteranian opted for.. dresses. While men in colder areas went for trousers, except the Highlanders, they were crazy(in a good way).

And if this charges at you with a dress it loses its fear appeal somewhat:

[WinsingtonIII]

I think pants are necessary in colder climates (at least in the winter). Talk to any woman from a generation that was forced to always wear dresses and skirts year round when in school and they will tell you all about how miserable it is to wear a dress when it is below freezing. In the summer, a little breeze would probably be very nice, but in the dead of winter, the last thing I want is any sort of breeze traveling up there. That being said, most men probably look better in a kilt than in shorts anyways, so during the summer months, it looks like pantless might be the way to go.

[bobbin]

And it depends on your location I gues, many people around the mediteranian opted for.. dresses. While men in colder areas went for trousers, except the Highlanders, they were crazy(in a good way).

IIRC they wore things similar to breeches underneath as well (so they were only slightly mad).

[Power2the1]

Mines is MacDonald of the Isles, I'm sure at some point down the line of history our ancestors were knocking lumps out of each other on a bog somewhere.

Really now?

The last Scottish Highlander battle of the clans that we know of pitted my clan Mac Leòid against your Mac Dhamhnuill clan. After a long battle that lasted most of the day I must say my clan was forced to give way to yours. You are my sworn enemy now, you dirty Mac Dhamhnuill!

[moonburn]

well considering the points from the original post one must agree that since industrialisation happened in england and one of the british isles major exports had always been textiles we can assume that pants became the "easyest" and cheap male product to wear, wich pretty much gave pants 1 to 5 generations to the rest of the other elements to become the culturally accepted dressund code

as for the scots and their great pride i had always assumed that kilts have been invented by an english in 1722 who lived in lower scotland (lowlands (?) ) and he used the clans tartans as inspiration but that until that point the kilts where actually some type of wierd wool togas and that scots whore trousers (like all other celts) underneath it.

as for the it´s great with chicks i must admit it´s true due to some personal experience of competing with some crazy friends who at a night decided to wear kilts, altough the "great" with chicks seems more conected to the fact that it increases female curiosity and it makes it easyer for them to device a ploy to check the goods instead of having to buy it to check it

[fleaza]

i think itd be easier to run in pants than in tunics. plus, tunics would rip easier because of the ease in which an object can catch it and rip it

[Ibrahim]

Ha! can't agree more, there was a boy in my old school who used to wear his jeans so low there was actually a gap you coulds see through between the top of his trousers and his boxers. Most unpleasent.

most distasteful.

but I can tell you, you got lucky; when I first came to Texas, and got into Boorwood* high,anywhere between 1 in 20 to 1 in 6 males in any given class wore that style at any one time. I kinda stuck out, seeing that I prefer high-waisted pants.

*actually brazoswood. "boor" was a pajorative addition reffering to the low intelligence level of the non-AP students.

[satalexton]

clearly pants are still a barbaric thing....

[HunGeneral]

Well I would prefer pants if I had to choose - many reasosn for it.

Oh yeah and about using clothes to defend against sunburn: most of my realtives wear a wide hat made out of strah (no idea where they got thoose from) and it seems to work well. Anoither method I heard from one of my friends - while working in the fields during summer his grandfather always wore long pants, a shirt with long arms and a smal hat on his head - it might have been not so cool as one would wish but he was always the one who never had any sunburn while harvest time (that means working in the scroching sun of summer from 3 o clock in the morning to 11 before lunch and then the whole afternoon).

One more interresting thing I found: I have finished reading a book a few days ago from Harold Lamb entitled "ALEXANDER OF MACEDON The journey to worlds end" (original title). In it there is a description of the Persians making fun of the Macedonians before the battle of granicus by shouting things at them like "Who payed you for coming here?!" and "Are you woman or what the hell that your wearing skirts?!" (after the battle however the Persians didn't laugh....)

I think this was however a modern idea or do you think in thoose days they really used such insults?

[bobbin]

Really now?

The last Scottish Highlander battle of the clans that we know of pitted my clan Mac Leòid against your Mac Dhamhnuill clan. After a long battle that lasted most of the day I must say my clan was forced to give way to yours. You are my sworn enemy now, you dirty Mac Dhamhnuill!

Have at ye!! seems our ancestors made up shortly afterwards so no harm done
ps it was only the last battle on skye, there was still a whole century of fighting left for the highlanders.


@moonburn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_kilt

[Cambyses]

Well, I have two points to add to this debate.

1. Is it a coincidence that women (in western society) have started to wear trousers in much much greater numbers in the last 50 years, at the same time that they have become truly emancipated? And that indeed in many conservative circles wearing trousers is very much frowned upon.
2. Those flimsy Hellenic tunics acquired a certain - err - reputation. Whether or not that was justified Ive no idea. The arrival of the monotheistic religions and a less permissive society, surely also encouraged more conservative clothing, of which trousers (I cant say pants, being English that word means something else to me) were far more pratical than the other "covering-up" item, the toga...