City Walls

**DaciaJC** · 09-02-2009, 15:19

I always find that defending a city with a large stone wall is much easier than defending one with wooden walls - you have an extreme height advantage where archers, slingers, and skirmishers can devastate enemy units, and there are multiple towers firing a limitless supply of arrows (unrealistic to say the least, but there's no way around it) to those on the ground. And since enemy units using siege towers or ladders will attack you individually or in pairs, you will always have local numerical superiority to crush them.

Perversely, though, I find that defending a city with huge stone walls is more difficult than one with simply a large stone wall or the Celtic wall - the siege towers fire ballistas, which can thin out your troops on the wall very quickly.

**Puupertti Ruma** · 09-02-2009, 15:46

Due to the Medieval 2: Total War settlements being medieval, and as modifying battle map settlements is very hard if not outright impossible, it is quite a mystery what the EB team will and can do to remedy the situation. There was some progress made in settlement building editing about a year ago when some Spanish guy could see the 3d models of the buildings from the hexcode of m2tw. Has anyone got more updated news of this breakthrough, or of any other breakthrough in the settlement modding scene?

**Brave Brave Sir Robin** · 09-03-2009, 02:17

I think its best to mod the larger seige towers to fire arrows instead of ballista bolts. That way half a unit isn't decimated waiting to fight the attackers coming out of the tower. And it makes those large stone walls actually useful compared to standard stone walls.

**Darius** · 09-03-2009, 02:25

It would certainly be nice to maybe actually see an archer and/or slinger or two stationed at the top of the siege tower actually firing rather than just having the arrows/bullets materializing from nowhere. Yea it might not be feasible but it would certainly add to the realism of it all.

**Urg** · 09-03-2009, 02:51

Originally Posted by Frontline1944

I always find that defending a city with a large stone wall is much easier than defending one with wooden walls...

Thinking again about my initial post, Frontline is probably right. Generally speaking, if I have a significant sized garrison I sally against the besieging army. The only time I would actually battle to defend a city against a siege is where I have a relatively small garrison. This is when stone walls cause me a problem, because I do not have enough troops to defend the walls and the gates at the same time, and my troops end up getting fired on my the walls once they are captured. The problem doesn't arise with wooden walls. Maybe this is not a problem at all? I'm not sure.

On the other hand, The problem with attacking walls is a much more serious one because its far easier to capture an AI city with stone walls than one with wooden walls.

The solutions I can think of to this issue is as follows (forgive my presumption, oh holy eb team):

- making stone walls more dangerous for attackers (does this make them unhistorical, ie too much like medieval walls? how common were high stone walls in ancient times?)
- limiting the utility of siege towers such as by limiting the time it takes to build them or the ease with which they can be set on fire (were siege towers actually used in ancient times??)
- assisting AI troops to run around on top of walls to meet attacks (this is the most important)
- prevent the stone walls/towers from firing on 'home' garrison troops even when those towers are captured by an enemy

**Prussian to the Iron** · 09-03-2009, 17:32

wait wait wait....Siege Towers fired ballista bolts in EB1?!!?!!? where was I?!

**athanaric** · 09-03-2009, 18:25

Originally Posted by Prussian Iron

wait wait wait....Siege Towers fired ballista bolts in EB1?!!?!!? where was I?!

In case you haven't noticed, the large siege towers in RTW (those used for large and huge stone walls) have synchronized gatling ballistas mounted on them. Impressive technology, especially seeing as even the Barbarian and Nomad factions can field them...

**Prussian to the Iron** · 09-03-2009, 18:42

i honestly never knew that they fired, and i got the game only a couple months after release! amazing that i missed that...

then again, i never knew you could merge until i got E:TW so...

**bobbin** · 09-03-2009, 19:45

The first level of stone wall is the best, it has all the benifits of a stone wall without the evil seige towers you get with the larger walls.

Originally Posted by Urg

Thinking again about my initial post, Frontline is probably right. Generally speaking, if I have a significant sized garrison I sally against the besieging army. The only time I would actually battle to defend a city against a siege is where I have a relatively small garrison. This is when stone walls cause me a problem, because I do not have enough troops to defend the walls and the gates at the same time, and my troops end up getting fired on my the walls once they are captured. The problem doesn't arise with wooden walls. Maybe this is not a problem at all? I'm not sure.

. Don't trying to guard the gates 9 times out of 10 the ram gets set on fire, once you realise this defending stone walls is easy, I've held off of armies of thousands with 6 units in the past.

On the other hand, The problem with attacking walls is a much more serious one because its far easier to capture an AI city with stone walls than one with wooden walls.

Really? I've always found taking stone walled cities is far more costly as you have to fight the enemy on the walls which always results in more deaths. With wooden walls its essentially a normal straightforward fight, just knock a few holes in it and use missle troops to drive the defenders away from the breaches.

**DaciaJC** · 09-03-2009, 22:13

Originally Posted by bobbin

Really? I've always found taking stone walled cities is far more costly as you have to fight the enemy on the walls which always results in more deaths. With wooden walls its essentially a normal straightforward fight, just knock a few holes in it and use missle troops to drive the defenders away from the breaches.

A few archers and skirmishers firing into the sides and rear of enemies as they run around like headless chickens makes the assault a much easier and quicker process.