Why are the Ptolemaioi such a hated faction?

[Arutima]

this is why i hate the ptolemaios





in that game they conquered carthages with a single army of 10, 3 gold chevrons FM

[Moosemanmoo]

Whoa!
I couldn't cope with that, how the hell are the Saba doing just fine?

[Moros]

Whoa!
I couldn't cope with that, how the hell are the Saba doing just fine?

Protectorates?

[antisocialmunky]

The Germans expanded... wow.

[DaciaJC]

I was about to say, "Hmm, I'm liking Hayasdan's expansion", before I realized that those blue spots were the Black and Caspian Seas. *sigh* Not very smart to think after a soccer game.

[Kevin]

this is why i hate the ptolemaios





in that game they conquered carthages with a single army of 10, 3 gold chevrons FM

again...

[Subotan]

Poor Getai :(

[Duguntz]

The Germans expanded... wow.

Sweboz own!!! Oh yeah, and ptolies can just tramble in sight of such warriors! mouhahahahahaha!!!

Behold the riturn of Duguntz on the battlefield... in october!

From a scientific point of view, incsetial children (between bro's ans sister, as shown in that falily tree... wich really deserve it's name as... FAMILY tree!!!) start to show physic defect after only 10 or more generations... that's mean that when the first of that great line decided that his sister was cute enough to sleep with, it COULD take up to even 15 generation before we could actually physicly see it by defects on body AND mental... The problem of it... is that even if the grand grand grand grand grand pa' slept with a family member, and was the only one, the cromosome defect could strike like 100 years later, even if the rest took wife (or husband) in the good order, that is, with someone NOT from the family. so even a ''normal'' children could be deformated because his grand grand grand father slept with somebody he souldn't have!Hmmm... complicated even for me... still, it's only a matter of cells and chromosomes...

still, even if it takes, in general, couples of generations before deformations can be seens, don't sleep with your sister... it's awkward!

Cheers everybody!

[athanaric]

Sweboz own!!! Oh yeah, and ptolies can just tramble in sight of such warriors! mouhahahahahaha!!!

Behold the riturn of Duguntz on the battlefield... in october!

I think you are going to enjoy the AI faction progression report I will be uploading soon... Ptolies getting owned by Swêboz (that is, me)...

[Duguntz]

I think you are going to enjoy the AI faction progression report I will be uploading soon... Ptolies getting owned by Swêboz (that is, me)...

I'll wait with impacience that upload! i'm glad to finally find another Sweboz player on that forum and i wish you to kick those ptolies asses!

Let's come back to topic now!!!

[Prussian to the Iron]

well, i've never had any hatred for the ptolies, in fact i like them better than the AS (but then again, I am playing as Saba)

I think it's fairly easy to stop the 'Yellow fever' if you can take all of arabia, and then cut off the choke point around syria and israel. I'd prefer to side with the Ptolies, and maybe give them something in india, but not much more than that for help.

[Blxz]

From a scientific point of view, incsetial children (between bro's ans sister, as shown in that falily tree... wich really deserve it's name as... FAMILY tree!!!) start to show physic defect after only 10 or more generations... that's mean that when the first of that great line decided that his sister was cute enough to sleep with, it COULD take up to even 15 generation before we could actually physicly see it by defects on body AND mental... The problem of it... is that even if the grand grand grand grand grand pa' slept with a family member, and was the only one, the cromosome defect could strike like 100 years later, even if the rest took wife (or husband) in the good order, that is, with someone NOT from the family. so even a ''normal'' children could be deformated because his grand grand grand father slept with somebody he souldn't have!Hmmm... complicated even for me... still, it's only a matter of cells and chromosomes...

still, even if it takes, in general, couples of generations before deformations can be seens, don't sleep with your sister... it's awkward!

Cheers everybody!

It strikes me as odd that so many people have no real idea about genetics on any level and yet still claim to know everything about it from heresay and general guesswork.

The stuff i put in bold in the quote is probably the most laughable part of the whole inaccurate lot. Its way off topic so i won't explain what actually happens but if you really have to know PM me and I will give anyone a nice big boring lecture. (its actually kinda interesting if you are into that)

Seriously people, don't try and talk about specifics on anything if you really have no idea or if you heard the absolute truth according to this "real reliable guy you met down the pub". It just spreads around wrong information.

[Subotan]

15 generations is about 450 years. I highly doubt that one incestal relationship would lead to problems half a millenium down the line.

[Blxz]

15 generations is about 450 years. I highly doubt that one incestal relationship would lead to problems half a millenium down the line.

True, a shallow breeding pool just tends to bring recessive genes to the front. And often these tend to be mutations and some stuff. So loads (read LOADS) of inbreeding can get rid of the correct genes and just leave you with mutations.

AND, it would show up as soon as it happened, not magically appear 450 years down the track.

So everyone, it is safe to sleep with your sister. Just really disgusting morally and illegal in all western countries. Except 1st cousins are allowed to marry in Japan. Apparently thats far enough apart on the family tree.

[Ludens]

So everyone, it is safe to sleep with your sister. Just really disgusting morally and illegal in all western countries. Except 1st cousins are allowed to marry in Japan. Apparently thats far enough apart on the family tree.

Genetics is not my strongest field, but I do recall that, as a species, humans are genetically weak and derived from a small stock. So incest is a risk after a few generations. If I am wrong, feel free to send me your lecture.

[Bucefalo]

Yes, if you don´t mind i would also like to know a bit more about it.

[Apázlinemjó]

I would like to know more about this too. I have little knowledge in biology as it wasn't a main subject in the last years of high school.

[Ibrahim]

So everyone, it is safe to sleep with your sister. Just really disgusting morally and illegal in all western countries. Except 1st cousins are allowed to marry in Japan. Apparently thats far enough apart on the family tree.

the following first countries also allow the cousin marriages: Kuwait, Emirates, and Qatar*. its an Arab thing


Inbreeding does indeed tend to cause serious trouble over generations, regardless of the genetic pool of the species (Ludens?), though it can get sharper in effect with a shrinking group. the Reason is because it tends to concentrate defective, or deleterious, mutations over a period of time, to the point of being incompatible with a healthy life. a simple example: suppose there are a pair, husband and wife, both having a gene, Xx. X is doinent, x is recessive. the recessive one gives people hell (say, born with bad hearts). the punett square will make the following children: XX, Xx, Xx, and xx. now, lets mate two at random, and see how the xx (bad heart) concentration changes. believe me, it goes up very quickly. here is a real life example. notice his jaw:



he's a Hapsburg...


*seriously, they should be considered 1st world: they have government care for people, and have modern infrastructures, high incomes, and good economies (and Kuwait has real freedom of speech). their only problem is that they are all oil addicted, though that is changing...slowly.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

I want to add that there are two lines of the House of Habsburg, the Austrian and the Spanish. The Spanish are the inbred.

[Fluvius Camillus]

[..]



he's a Hapsburg...


[..]

[Blxz]

Inbreeding does indeed tend to cause serious trouble over generations, regardless of the genetic pool of the species (Ludens?), though it can get sharper in effect with a shrinking group. the Reason is because it tends to concentrate defective, or deleterious, mutations over a period of time, to the point of being incompatible with a healthy life. a simple example: suppose there are a pair, husband and wife, both having a gene, Xx. X is doinent, x is recessive. the recessive one gives people hell (say, born with bad hearts). the punett square will make the following children: XX, Xx, Xx, and xx. now, lets mate two at random, and see how the xx (bad heart) concentration changes. believe me, it goes up very quickly.

Ibrahim beat me to it. There is not alot more I could add without repeating what he basically said or going into more real-life examples.

And ludens you are very right, humans have had a very small stock to draw from in the past. There are some theories that the human population (or almost human creature thingy's on the evolution scale) may have gone as low as a few thousand people scattered over a country sized area at at least one and possibly other points in our history.

We are also supposedly linked to one woman (really old corpse) that was found who happens to have an almost exact match of a DNA that we have in a location that is not prone to mutations (coz mutations there lead to death - i think number of fingers and heart function are closely linked). This means that if that scientific paper was not lying, then we are all brothers from another mother. Although I think it could be faked. Getting DNA of any kind, especially accurate DNA from a 100,000yr old corpse no matter how preserved is close to impossible I thought.

Anyone able to provide more info on this? I think it might have been the 'Lucy' corpse that they found.

[satalexton]

/OT talk

This reminded me of an old saying: 'All wars are civil wars, as all men are brothers.'......

[Ludens]

*seriously, they should be considered 1st world: they have government care for people, and have modern infrastructures, high incomes, and good economies (and Kuwait has real freedom of speech). their only problem is that they are all oil addicted, though that is changing...slowly.

Oil-addiction is a problem? I thought it was a requirement for entering the first-world club.

Anyone able to provide more info on this? I think it might have been the 'Lucy' corpse that they found.

I doubt it, since Lucy is only tentatively identified as a female. I agree it sounds unbelievable, by the way. Extracting DNA from organisms that old is possible, but there is a great risk of contamination.

[Alien of Germania]

Reading the last posts in this thread I think this should be locked...

[Weebeast]

So the famed Cleopatra did both her brothers too? Yuck, I'm getting images of the little brat seen in HBO Rome.

I highly doubt kid that age can produce sperm. Their union produced no child. I'd say no. They were co-rulers but those lines aren't supposed to be there. Clearly it's just people needing to exaggerate.

Incest is only bad if you produce offspring. Then again I encourage pretty much everyone not to reproduce until we don't see each other one county apart. Yes county. Country is too big.

[Ludens]

Reading the last posts in this thread I think this should be locked...

The thread has moved OT, but I think the original question has been sufficiently answered. If you disagree, feel free to PM me.

I highly doubt kid that age can produce sperm. Their union produced no child. I'd say no. They were co-rulers but those lines aren't supposed to be there. Clearly it's just people needing to exaggerate.

No, she was definitely married to both her brothers, although not at the same time. Presumably she couldn't rule on her own, and needed to do it through a male relative.

[ARCHIPPOS]

Incest is only bad if you produce offspring.

funniest quote in this damn thread

[Weebeast]

No, she was definitely married to both her brothers, although not at the same time. Presumably she couldn't rule on her own, and needed to do it through a male relative.

Yes I know but marriage =/= sex and the chart in this thread was labeled "family tree" not "list of Ptolemaic Pharaohs." That's what I'm trying to point out to Fluvius.

funniest quote in this damn thread

Funny how? Funny haha or funny "lol you did your sister" funny?

[A Very Super Market]

Producing children would be inbreeding, not incest, so the statement is quite correct. Technically.

[Subotan]

he's a Hapsburg...

Hell, even Carlos I/Charles V found it difficult to eat properly, and always ate alone, out of shame. Charles II on the other hand, (I.e. this guy) not only found it impossible to eat without assistance, but was mentally incapacitated, infertile and his death brought about a 13 year long war for his throne.


So that is why you don't inbreed.