Conseil du Royaume

[AussieGiant]

Alain laughs loudly at the most recent remarks.

Your majesty...ueh, would you be willing to stake a wager on ze ability for any man in zis council to successfully contest and win ze position of Senecschal against you?

You are indeed at least partially correct in my view my liege, because "it would belittle ze meaning of zis whole institution", if you were to contest ze elections without 'assuming' ze office, because no sane man stands a chance in an open election against 'is King.

Alain looks at Hugues and Gaspard with some interest.

Per'aps I am wrong?

[OverKnight]

Hugues's amazement turns to a grimace. The grimace turns to a wry smile. The wry smile to a predatory grin. His gaze is now fully focused on the King. He does not notice Reeves desperately trying to get his attention.

Your Majesty, how could I, as a loyal vassal, deny you a bit of sport? I hope the Stag will provide the Hunter with some amusement before he is inevitably felled by the hounds.

The Duc laughs and bows.

[KnightnDay]

Thomas stands now to address the Conseil.

"I for one find no difficulty in voting for one other than the king in the contest for the Seneschal. Some will call me naive, but in such a matter we are not voting solely for approval or disapproval of the king's offer, but rather answering the question whether we approve of the idea of putting the two powerful offices in the hands of any warrior who finds himself in the thick of battle on so many occasions. Are we to risk all our eggs in one basket? What if, God forbid, a stray arrow or axe blade should meet our king in battle? Then we would be instantly deprived of two offices. Prince Louis would no doubt step in as king well enough, but there would also be a time of transition that could be dangerous to the Royaume. It is for this reason that my own vote would be a carefully considered one."

[_Tristan_]

The King returns Hugues' mirthless grin.

I would expect no less of you, Hugues...

Then turning to Duc Alain

And Alain, do you truly think me so small-minded than I cannot forgive those that will against me ?

The promises of land have been made already... Had I been as small-minded as you portray me, I would have refrained from granting these provinces until after the election as a reward to those "loyal" vassals.

But I want a fair "fight"... Or rather I want to give the "stag" a chance, to quote Hugues.

[OverKnight]

Hugues smiles.

Yes, let the Stag have his chance.

I seem to be very quotable today. How fortunate for me.

[AussieGiant]

Alain spreads his hands wide and with just a faint degree of insincerity in his tone responds.

I do not zink you small minded at all your Highness. You are nozing if not a broad minded forgiving King of great compassion and honour.

You do us a humble courtesy in granting lands before ze election to zose loyal to 'our' cause.

I am very certain ze Stag shall be given as much fairness as ze royal will allows. Nozing else should be demanded or expected, no?

[_Tristan_]

The King glares at Alain

Spare me your sarcasm, Alain...

If you cannot bear the just criticism of your Sovereign, for failing to accomplish the tasks he set you, you should at least refrain from insulting him.

Your own House would surely have been one of the best served in the land allotment if you had simply managed to finalize the deal with Guillaume. So do not lay the blame that your House fell short in the distribution... Sweep before your own door, my dear Alain...

[OverKnight]

Hugues grows serious.

Mon Roi, mon Seignuers I am afraid it has been a long day. I must rest. Perhaps in my absence the Conseil would like to pose questions to the candidates? You know like a real election?

The characters involved should not outweigh the issues facing the Realm. Though this may prove difficult.

Hugues bows and withdraws.

[AussieGiant]

Maintaining the overly formal tone the young Duc smiles while speaking.

"Euh...sarcasm, you misread me my most esteemed liege.

I am but a failure in your eyes zat is clear and I 'ope ze nobles 'ere 'ave finally understood zat no?

It is of course my pleasure to confirm to everyone present zat I am entirely at fault and would never dream of even zinking of insulting my King. If I 'ave given zat impression I will immediately 'ave someone flogged for my insolence.

Your allotment was nozing short or fair and just my lord. As honour demands I 'ave understood ze lesson and I am in fully support your approach to ze matter towards Bretagne. We are simply not worzy of anyzing and must strive to please you in ze future. I shall begin speaking wiz ze Order to better understand what zat is.

In addition I shall begin sweeping my doorstep immediately.

Pray tell my King.

What am I sweeping?

[Vladimir]

Pray tell my King.

What am I sweeping?

*cough* codpiece *cough*

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Alain shakes his head with a rather incredulous look. He seems to be a little more animated than before, perhaps warming to the current topic, his accent thickening.

I seems quite incredible just how transparent ze Order of ze Fleur de Lys is, no?

Turning to Yvon he continues in a slightly condescending tone.

"I am sure my comments wont derail your man becoming ze next Seneschal.

Zis is just a small side show which perhaps provides a small bump in ze road to a preeminent position in ze Realm for ze Order.

You have ze ear of ze right man so...euh...zere is nozing to fear no?

I am simply asking how a province can be 'anded over before it is ratified.

Because...euh...Edict 2.1 'as not been passed, zerefore it is in ze King Demesne at zis time, no?

I am sorry, but have I become a member of the Order without me knowing? Perhaps you have mistaken for someone else Duc. I for one do not agree with some of the orders methods that is for sure, and so the comparison surely wounds me.


Yvon turns to the king

My King if that is what you believe I will follow you, however I am finding it hard to trust the shifty English with anything. I would be overjoyed if this diplomatic venue was successful, but I have some serious doubts.

[econ21]

Peace, Chevalier Yvon - has the standing of the Order fallen so low that to be falsely associated with us is regarded as wounding? For my part, I am grateful to the Duc of Bretagne for his service to the realm as Seneschal. And yes, Duc Alain, the Order is very transparent - we are an Order of Chivalry established to defend the Kingdom and serve the King. We do precisely that and no more.

I offer my commiserations to my Captain, Gaspard Neufville, and offer my apologies to him for my having been premature with regard to the Order's possession of Antwerp. Given the unanticipated legal technicality regrading the transfer of ownership, I would humbly request that both candidates for Seneschal regard Gaspard as the de facto governor of Antwerp if the transfer is ratified and the King grants Antwerp to the Order. If the King wishes to establish a military centre in the North, perhaps Antwerp would be suitable? I would urge Gaspard to communicate privately with the King on this matter.

I wish both His Majesty and the Duc of Lorraine all the best in their competition for the post of Seneschal.

[woad&fangs]

Bertin laughs at Hermant's words.

Antwerp!? A military centre?! Antwerp is a merchant town. It's residents are too soft and flabby to amount to anything in the field. I'll fight alongside the peasants of Metz a thousand times before I trust my life to some "knight" of Antwerp.

[OverKnight]

Hugues claps Bertin on the shoulder.

Now Baron, the Order must make do with what they have been given, as must we all.

Hugues looks about the chamber.

So, no questions for the Candidates? I'm a bit surprised. I would've thought someone would have raised the topic of a Moorish Crusade again. That was quite popular during the last session.

Or perhaps the topic of the stubborn Scots and their refusal of an alliance, "What's to be done about them?" I can imagine someone asking. And maybe they would have a clever follow up like, "And if we are to deal diplomatically with les Anglais, should we still push for an alliance that may drag us into war with them?"

But actually a question has been asked of one of the Candidates. It was just earlier before his Majesty decided to run.

May I suggest that chevalier Yvon be permitted some degree of forgiveness by his majesty for that last statement, because he does not, as put so aptly, know the specifics of this deal, concluded through most skilled and artful negotiation of the respectve crowns. Indeed, I do not. Does anyone share the confidence of his majesty as to what details are contained in this deal? Is our next diplomat merely delivering papers to be signed by your cousin or is there more to it than that?

. . .But I stray too far from my question. What specifically must happen in order for this deal to be struck with your cousin, sire?

Thomas walked around it a bit, I must admit, but it is a valid question.

Hugues turns to the King.

Your Majesty, what specifically, in lands, money and political agreements, will you offer England for Caen and Angers in Edict 2.4?

Your Majesty seems to have specifics in mind, since you were quite wroth at Duc Alain for not meeting your requirements.

Edit: I suppose I should restate my own answer to this one.

Also, if elected Seneschal, I would cede all diplomatic negotiations with the Anglais to the King. His Majesy knows them better than I. This way we would avoid. . .um. . .any misunderstandings.

If I knew what exactly the King would offer, I might place an upward limit, if the Conseil thought it wise, on what his Majesty could add as a sweetener if the English prove, once again, obstinate.

Oh, Reeves has posted an updated list of Legislation.

[OverKnight]

Hugues speaks again.

Ah. . .I've already stated my opposition to Amendment 2.1, so I'll propose this instead:

Edict 2.6: If Caen, Angers or Bordeaux are acquired during this term they shall be considered ratified and an integral part of the Realm.

[Cecil XIX]

OOC: I propose

Rules Change 2.1: Settlements may not be converted from city to castle, or from castle to city.

I believe I mentioned early that they AI doesn't do this, so I think it's best that we don't do it either in order to minimize our advantages.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

OOC: I second Rules Change 2.1

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Since this is an OOC thing I can second it, right?

[econ21]

Your Majesty, I wonder if you would consider revising Edict 2.2 so that it is contingent on the Reich remaining within the Church? Suppose the Reich is excommunicated for constantly attacking us and the Holy Father calls a crusade against it. With Edict 2.2, we would be forced to stand aside and watch good Christians die for us while we do nothing. If the Reich becomes an outcast nation, I do not believe we need constrain ourselves in the manner of Edict 2.2.

[Ignoramus]

Gaspard rises to speak.

Bon messieurs, it has come to mon attention that I am unable to run for the office of Seneschal. This is of little consequence as now that mon Roi has indicated he is standing, I respectfully withdraw my candidacy anyway.

I do apolgise to this esteemed chamber for once again standing in error, for a position so important to the governing of the land. Do forgive me.

On other matters, it has come to mon attention that we have only one decent port, and that is in the Comte de Toulouse. I am concerned that we have no ports capable of sustaining any meaningful trade or providing the rudimentary ships for transporting horses and men upon our northern shores. Indeed, the Duc d'Bretagne was forced to hire shipping in order to make his excursion to Wales. I sincerely hope that we need not be forced to do so again.

Therefore, I propose the following Edict.

Edict 2.7: "During the next Seneschal's term, a port is to be constructed in either Bretagne(Rennes), Flandres(Bruges), or Brabant(Antwerp)."

The cost of such a construction is high, but I believe that the trade alone should be worth the investment."

Gaspard resumes his seat.

[Northnovas]

A figure rises from the back benches of the Bretagne section...

I second Edict 2.6 and 2.7
They appear to be very sound proposals.

Robert goes back to his seat...

[Ituralde]

I also second Edict 2.6 and Edict 2.7.

[_Tristan_]

Having listened silently to the debate, Philippe speaks calmly.

Sieur Mauvoisin, you have pointed a flaw in my reasoning in Edict 2.2. I had taken for granted that his Holiness would send the same warning to the warring factions on both sides of the border and that both would heed his call for peace or truce, should I say.

I did count on Emperor Maximilian to be different from Heinrich and be more pious, but there's nothing to guarantee it. He may be cast in the same mold as his predecessor.

Thus you proposed amendment of my proposal makes sense.

I'll rephrase the Edict.

Edict 2.2a : No further attacks are to be made on the Reich for the next Senechal term and suitable negotiations will be held with the Kaiser to regain a state of neutrality. Defending against attacks from the Reich doesn't impinge on this Edict..Should the Reich be excommunicated, the present edict will be void and agressive action will be authorized on all Imperial assets. If any provinces should be acquired in this fashion, they will be considered ratified.

I'll also give my support to Edicts 2.5 to 2.7, as seconds are not needed anymore.

As to the question of my deal with my cousin Guillaume, I prefer to keep the specifics secret for now and until the Senechal is chosen. Diplomacy is a very sensible matter and telling too much too early may well cause it to fail.

Let us simply say that I specifically had asked the previous Senechal to propose an alliance to my cousin Guillaume as a gesture of goodwill before proposing to make an exchange of our lands, something which the Senechal admittedly didn't do. It remains to determine if that was his fault for not conveying the information to the diplomat he sent or a blunder of the diplomat. Whatever the cause, I consider that the fault is to be laid at the Senechal's feet.

[_Tristan_]

Philippe suddenly adds

Oh... and I forgot to reconduct Edict 1.11. I wouldn't like some fool-hardy noble to get ideas.

So I propose :

Edict 2.8 : No armies under French command (OOC : under the command of an ingame avatar or an ingame avatar) shall cross the borders into Norman (English) lands for the duration of the King's truce, which is to be ended only by direct declaration from the King. The Seneschal shall be required to immediately disband the armies of any general who violates this Edict. Said edict will be suspended if the Seneschal successfully negociates military access or an alliance with England , and while that agreement lasts.

[AussieGiant]

Alain stands.

Indeed your 'ighness. Zat seems to be where one of ze misunderstanding lie.

I would ask ze assembled nobles a question.

Alain turns to the chamber as a whole.

Should alliance offers be ratified by ze Conseil and not arbitrarily offered, particularly to an old enemy?

[econ21]

The Duc of Bretagne raises an interesting constitutional question. However, if a candidate for Seneschal stands for election on a platform that includes offering an alliance, then reasonable men would regard that alliance as approved by the Conseil should it elect that candidate. I also would hesitate to call the King's proposed alliance arbitrary. When we are at war on our east, an alliance to keep the peace on our west would appear prudent - not arbitrary. If it paves the way to a rationalisation of our borders, even better - especially for Bretagne.

On a related matter, I second Edict 2.4.

[AussieGiant]

Alain turns to Hermant.

"I zink you will 'ave to remind me Ser Hermant where I said I would offer an alliance to ze English as part of my term as Seneschal.

I am quite certain I did not.

Alain glances at the throne.

Instead I was instructed to do so by one of god's representatives on earth.

Zat seems razer arbitrary to me, no?

Last time I gazed at ze English, we were not trying to kill each ozer. Zat would seems peaceful to me."

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

So, no questions for the Candidates? I'm a bit surprised. I would've thought someone would have raised the topic of a Moorish Crusade again. That was quite popular during the last session.

The Moorish crusade has not been forgotten, fear not for that. But The War with the Germans surely takes precedent. This is not the best time for any house to be sending there strength abroad. Sadly we must worry about ourselves for now, and only after we are secure may we turn our eye to help the good Christians of Spain.

However I do have a question for you Good Duc, How do you plan on promoting better communication between the various houses and commanders?

[econ21]

I apologise, Duc Alain. When I spoke of a Seneschal offering an alliance, I thought we were debating the future course of France, not contemplating the past.

[AussieGiant]

"Indeed Ser Hermant, I was referring to ze Kings comments regarding my time in office.

'e spoke in ze past tense if you examine 'is comments closely.

I was instructed to do somezing zat I regarded as arbitrary and wiz out first consulting zis council.

As you say good ser, it is an intriguing constitutional question no?"

Alain sits slowly, making sure to hold Hermant's gaze in earnest inquiry.

[econ21]

Hermant rises:

Duc Alain, I see you are sincere in your inquiry. I confess I am no constitutional expert, as my misunderstanding over Antwerp has proven. Quickly scrutinising our Charter, I can find no mention of alliances at all - although an ammendment was passed forbidding diplomatic exchanges with Mohammadans. Currently, therefore, alliances with non-Mohammadans seem to fall within the discretion of the Seneschal although future edicts and proclamations may constrain him. By contrast, declarations of war are prohibited except when authorised in advance or when made by the King. I suppose the question is, would we prefer the default position of the Seneschal with respect to alliances to be one of freedom (as is the case now) or of prohibition (as in the case with war)? However, in either case, if the King has the right to make the extreme step of declaring war, I would imagine he would also be empowered to take the surely lesser step of forming an alliance.