Javelin Ammo in the saddle....

**Kevin** · 09-20-2009, 23:21

How do can you use skirmisher calvaries efficiently? I tend to not include any in my armies because they have little ammo, they aren't as good as foot soldiers, always get chased by at least one unit of the enemy's army, and have no charge which makes them useless after they run out of ammo.

Back on to topic, you guys neglect the fact that the men holding these spears were probably stronger, and more trained than any of you (no offense) so you can't compare your skills with those of the men depicted in EB.

**ziegenpeter** · 09-20-2009, 23:32

Originally Posted by Kevin

How do can you use skirmisher calvaries efficiently? I tend to not include any in my armies because they have little ammo, they aren't as good as foot soldiers, always get chased by at least one unit of the enemy's army, and have no charge which makes them useless after they run out of ammo.

I'd like to know that too. I always prefere foot skirmishers.

**DaciaJC** · 09-21-2009, 00:18

Originally Posted by Kevin

How do can you use skirmisher calvaries efficiently? I tend to not include any in my armies because they have little ammo, they aren't as good as foot soldiers, always get chased by at least one unit of the enemy's army, and have no charge which makes them useless after they run out of ammo.

Well, there's one reason. Skirmisher cavalry are intended to harass the enemy, whittle their numbers, tire them out... not deal major blows. They could use a little boost, though, considering the disparity in effectiveness (in this case, how many enemy soldiers are killed by javelins) between foot and cavalry skirmishers.

*They're also great for running down routers.

**Kevin** · 09-21-2009, 01:00

Chasing routers are there only decent use. If there javelins were somewhat stronger than foot skirmishers, they'd be more useful

**Cute Wolf** · 09-21-2009, 04:34

You forgot that Hellenic hippakontistai actually have ap kopis, that makes them useful to deal dadly flank onto Romaioi legions...

Copy from my horsemaster discussions

I Start this with... The Hellenic Hippakontistai well according to most EB AAR, there's a lot of reason to not use them, they are weak, their javelins are limited, and their class was low... but there was another reasons to use them properly, and very effectively...
1) They are readily available in first tier MIC, and large recruitment area... means they are more "expandable" and retrainable..
2) They have ap swords, albeit only 6 points w out any upgr, they are still ap, and with exp can be relied to flank even katas
3) While javelins are limited bth in range and ammo, their close range and lethality means that they are very useful... router sweeper...
4) With proper usage to sweep out routers, they can quickly advance to silver chevrons.... and with silver chev up, they are very realible to take down most armoured units...

so with the point 3, I propose that addinsome extra javs could made the better

Eastern/Gauls w speas instead of kopis could be used to charge...

**antisocialmunky** · 09-21-2009, 04:36

Most cavalry are over armored enough that they don't really feel javelines except in the back. Though heavy cavalry tends to be a little vulnerable but shield bearing medium cavalry(which is all Roman cav is) and catanks don't care at all. If they carried AP javelins(javelins should be more deadly versus horses since all you need is to unseat the rider with one), then they would be worth it.

Maybe give them a cav bonus or AP and then half the amount or something.

**Kevin** · 09-21-2009, 04:41

Too bad those Hellenic Skirmisher Calvary can't be recruited by Romans

**antisocialmunky** · 09-21-2009, 04:58

Their late cavalry is better.

**Cute Wolf** · 09-22-2009, 07:57

Originally Posted by Kevin

Too bad those Hellenic Skirmisher Calvary can't be recruited by Romans

Try to get Marian and recruit Eqvites Galorrvm, in my opnion, they are the best non-nomad light cavalry. Second is their original Gallic light cav. Afterall, they can be used to charge everyone except crack phalangitai

**geala** · 09-24-2009, 14:12

Numidian cavalry did not wipe out Roman cavalry at Cannae. They kept the allied heavy cavalry on the Roman left wing occupied (a success in its own), while the Libyan, Spanish and Gallic heavy cavalry fought and destroyed the Roman cavalry on the Roman right. After this the heavy cavalry rode to the left and attacked the Roman allied cavalry together with the Numidians, the allied cavalry escaped from the field relatively unscrathed but without being a help for the legions any longer.

And I think cavalry with javelins is to weak. Tests with javelins on horse and feet have shown an immense increase in the energy of the javelin if thrown on a moving horse. Instead of about 40 Joule when thrown standing, the javelin thrown galopping towards the enemy reached 200 Joule. Only the latter is real ap. Better javelin cavalry should get the ap stat.

**Zradha Pahlavan** · 09-24-2009, 17:57

How do can you use skirmisher calvaries efficiently? I tend to not include any in my armies because they have little ammo, they aren't as good as foot soldiers, always get chased by at least one unit of the enemy's army, and have no charge which makes them useless after they run out of ammo.

They're exceedingly useful in steppe warfare, while footmen are not. Though not as good as horse archers, they're cheaper, and if nothing else you can use them to surround and destroy enemy cataphracts. They'll take a lot of losses, but they often get the job done. It's a good idea to give them heavy cavalry support though. I also tend to think that they're better against elephants, since they're fast enough to get out of the way.