Fiercest Barbarians

[Phalanx300]

they are one of the few peoples who make massive use of clubs(now that's barbaric)

Clubs and bone.

[WinsingtonIII]

Getai have the best roster of all "barbarians" that said I'd like to add that they don't have factional fear units(or do they?) which somewhat a blow.

They don't have any factional fear units, which I think is silly as Drapanai are certainly scary in my opinion. Their unit description even talks about how they think they are immortal and how "these warriors did not fear death, because death was the gateway to their prophet-god Zalmoxis." However, since the EB team did not find a historical precedent of these men striking fear into their eyes through reputation alone; I certainly respect the decision not to make them a scary unit.

The Getai can recruit Uirodusios (the scary naked Celtic spearmen) regionally but so can pretty much any other "barbarian" nation as well as some of the more "civilized" ones.

[Ca Putt]

yup I agree and I also said they are fierce and a bit crazy but I don't think they would really need that attribute as this would make them more expensive and after all if the get the scare ability TABs Cataphracts, spartans pretorians etc. should get it aswell and well, I'd protest aginst that :D

[WinsingtonIII]

yup I agree and I also said they are fierce and a bit crazy but I don't think they would really need that attribute as this would make them more expensive and after all if the get the scare ability TABs Cataphracts, spartans pretorians etc. should get it aswell and well, I'd protest aginst that :D

I can agree with that. We shouldn't start handing out scare bonuses to any unit that fights with a great deal of discipline. In that case any and ever elite would have them plus all professional phalanxes and legionnaires (really almost any professional unit if you think about it), which would be ridiculous. And if we're not going to give scare bonuses to disciplined units, we shouldn't give them to units that simply fight with religious zeal. Good point.

[Weebeast]

I'm gonna vote for Getai for two simple facts that my army will take quite high casualties fighting them and they can hold on to their provinces quite a while even if they are fighting two wars or more against Maks, Epeiros and Sauros in actual campaign.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

That's me as Rome. That's also Getai fighting 3 factions with Makedonia later joined as the fourth. I actually considered expanding east but I had looked carefully and I rejected the idea at least until Marian reform. (well technically I'm already in the east but in Egypt front fighting evil Selukids...)

Edit - Seeing as Sweboz is winning the contest, I just have to clarify that this is from Roman, Carthaginian and Greek perspectives. My army consists of one or two crappy cavalry, light and heavy infantries in 2 to 1 ratio. As Helennes, long pike phalanxes take the role of heavy infantry and better cavalry takes the role of the former's crappy cavalry. AI Sweboz stands no chance.

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Yep, I remember it was hell on earth to take out the Getai as Epeiros. My units suffered extremely high casualties, especially the Pezhetairoi phalanxes, but my light infantry (Peltastai) suffered by far the worst depredations ever. I had to replace them constantly.

[Cute Wolf]

Yep, I remember it was hell on earth to take out the Getai as Epeiros. My units suffered extremely high casualties, especially the Pezhetairoi phalanxes, but my light infantry (Peltastai) suffered by far the worst depredations ever. I had to replace them constantly.

Peltastai is meant to screen your main army.... no wonder if they die more quickly........

But for my experience, to take the Getai out of their place, all you need to have is just more sphendonetai, and all will be ok...

My Typical Hellenic Army on campaign in Getai:
1x Somatophylakes Strategou (All version, including KH's foot FM)
2x Hippakontistai, or better still, Sauro HA
6-7x Hoplitai Haploi, Peltastai, Phalangitai Deuteroi, or Hoplitai
5-6x Sphendonetai
If have some spare.... Any good cav, usually Plain Hippeis, Lonchoporoi Hippeis, or even Hetairoi as Maks

EDIT: Although they are still better than didn't have any missile units at best.... I didn't usually take on plain toxotai, because they tend to waste their arrows rather quickly..... but Kretikoi ones are the best when it comes to them.... take them if u can and have the time to Import them

[Ca Putt]

ranged units are the best answer to "barbarian" factions. which is the only reason I have one unit of kretans that does not serve in my main army but secures the north borders against the getai with whom I am allied(on the paper, but you know the AI) as KH but I always feel bad when useing to many ranged units in one army.

[IrishHitman]

1. Pikemen
2. AI opponent
3. ?????
4. Profit!

Rinse 'n' repeat, eh.

Yeah, they're beyond irritating.
And I can't use the console to screw them because I'm on Vista.

In my current Makedonia campaign, Carthage have taken over the entire Italian peninsula.
I had seized the Greek cities of Sicily via my navy, but the Carthage pike spam really messed things up, and I wasn't arsed to launch a counterattack as the AS and Pontus decided they'd mess with me in the East.

The AS won the duel over Antioch a long time ago at this point, and they'd made peace with the Ptollies...

Peltastai is meant to screen your main army.... no wonder if they die more quickly........

But for my experience, to take the Getai out of their place, all you need to have is just more sphendonetai, and all will be ok...

My Typical Hellenic Army on campaign in Getai:
1x Somatophylakes Strategou (All version, including KH's foot FM)
2x Hippakontistai, or better still, Sauro HA
6-7x Hoplitai Haploi, Peltastai, Phalangitai Deuteroi, or Hoplitai
5-6x Sphendonetai
If have some spare.... Any good cav, usually Plain Hippeis, Lonchoporoi Hippeis, or even Hetairoi as Maks

EDIT: Although they are still better than didn't have any missile units at best.... I didn't usually take on plain toxotai, because they tend to waste their arrows rather quickly..... but Kretikoi ones are the best when it comes to them.... take them if u can and have the time to Import them

I deal with the Getai by seizing the Crimea (by bribes or conquest) and then using the excellent armoured archers available there.
The cheeky Getic falxmen are too busy chasing around my skirmisher cavalry to mind getting pincushioned.

[Cute Wolf]

But in turns, your Bosophoran holdings are vulnerable to Sauro invasion, that in VH, could lead the Sauro become allied with Getai.... A really BAD BAD BADASSSS...... Combination, if played right by the ai... but u know the ai.......

[IrishHitman]

But in turns, your Bosophoran holdings are vulnerable to Sauro invasion, that in VH, could lead the Sauro become allied with Getai.... A really BAD BAD BADASSSS...... Combination, if played right by the ai... but u know the ai.......

I always put a good amount of men in the Bosophorus.
Also, in my VH/H Mak campaign, the Getai are beating the Sauro's asses...
For some reason, they don't feel inclined to attack me.

They've seized a large part of the steppe from what I can see (I can't use the console due to Vista)...

[Cute Wolf]

I always put a good amount of men in the Bosophorus.
Also, in my VH/H Mak campaign, the Getai are beating the Sauro's asses...
For some reason, they don't feel inclined to attack me.

They've seized a large part of the steppe from what I can see (I can't use the console due to Vista)...

? Sauro is beaten by getai..... ?

Ohh.... poor Sauro....

BTW, I'll bet they allready had much sauro HA themself on their hands (the Getai can train sauro HA).... so just prepare for the worst, because if massive HA / Drapanai combo is on, even on the AI's stupid hands it could be very devastating to unprepared (read, not with their proper counter) army....

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

You missed out the Romans, mate.

Actually, he asked for the fiercest barbarians, and if there's anything I can assure you with certainty, than it will be the fact that the Romans are indeed not very fierce. Maybe in the bedroom though.

But to answer the OP's original question, it's the Sweboz man. They are by far the most scaring, and if I could vote for the most scary unit in the game, I'd go with Kludda Lugiae though they're technically not Germanic. The Lugian lvl5 Kludda make mincemeat of my Thorakitai! The Lugian über armies can beat even Argyraspides if they can take on them downhill! They scare the hell out of me! Whereas the Getai constantly avoid any battle with me...

[Tollheit]

They are called Marslugoi Lugjiskoi nowadays, and you are right, they are frighteningly effective. Much better than Druxtiz Basterniska even, but like them, they are almost defenseless against missiles.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

The Britons varient, Kluddargos I think they are called, are similar to the Lugians but wear mail armor....

They scare me.

In fact in my Aedui campaign I attacked my loyal allies the Casse simply so I would be able to recruit these monstrosities. They work wonders against armored units. As soon as I'm done with the Lusotann in Nortern Iberia, I'll turn those wicked two handers towards the monster stacks in central europe.

[IrishHitman]

? Sauro is beaten by getai..... ?

Ohh.... poor Sauro....

BTW, I'll bet they allready had much sauro HA themself on their hands (the Getai can train sauro HA).... so just prepare for the worst, because if massive HA / Drapanai combo is on, even on the AI's stupid hands it could be very devastating to unprepared (read, not with their proper counter) army....

From what I've gathered from spies, their armies are a mix of HAs and foot missile troops, with a couple of spearmen units thrown in. The Sauros wouldn't normally have such a problem, but the Saka and Parthians are putting the pressure on as well.

[WinsingtonIII]

4. Casse - Casse have the weaknesses of Gallic factions while not sharing much of their boni. Their elites are also good, but very expensive and limited - they lack Gaesatae, but make for it with a cadre of assorted "Chanting" and "eagle-bearing" units that inspire their morale. The majority of their line is composed of the lowest tier Celtic troops, the Gaeroas, Botroas and Brythonic regionals, who are all lacking in discipline and are not that great either. Without enough people to keep their morale up, they rout quickly, and their formation tightness also leaves to be desired.

They also lack cavalry, and while there are one or two people who might have found an use for Chariots, their bodyguard is virtually useless. They also lack outstanding assault troops (Teceitos only, again) and have virtually nothing but basic missile units.

Bravery - ****
Steadiness - **
Strength - ***
Scariness - **

I think that this representation of the Casse is a little unfair. I agree that their lack of more professional units is annoying, as relying on Botroas and Gaeroas for your main line is not fun. However, their vast variety of elite "hero" and "champion" units I think makes them both very interesting to play as and fierce in their own way. And if these hero units are used effectively, their line can be quite steady (although expensive).

I've found the chariots to be quite effective against the more loose-order "barbarian" infantry of the Gallic tribes and the Sweboz. You don't tell them to attack directly, you keep them moving constantly and run through the enemy units, both disrupting the line, killing some men, and giving the units a fear penalty. In most of my battles they take 15 casualties or less and inflict at least 150-200 each (admittedly that's including routers).

To claim that they lack effective assault troops is I think the greatest mistake. Any of the Hero or Champion units can act as very effective heavy assault infantry (They all have .225 lethality longswords except for Cwmyr). However, if you want dedicated assault troops, Kluddargos are amazing. Their two-handed swords have .285 lethality, and they're heavily armored as well. They're the Thraikioi Rhomphaiaphoroi of the far West. I also think it's fair to consider the Goidilic roster when talking about the Casse as they have the most convenient access to it. If we do so, the Casse get some of the best assault units in the game, including the Ordmalica, who wield .31 lethality hammers and have 18 morale. Finally, there are Dubosaverlacica, who are essentially invincible, and also have 18 morale. The biggest problem here is the great expense of most of these units.

I'm not going to argue about the lack of cavalry, it's pretty sad.

I'm not saying that the Casse should be in the running for one of the best factions in the game (purely from a gameplay perspective). But I think we should give them some credit where it is do.

[Macilrille]

Actually, he asked for the fiercest barbarians, and if there's anything I can assure you with certainty, than it will be the fact that the Romans are indeed not very fierce. Maybe in the bedroom though.

I do not wish to derail the thread, but you have an agreement with EB to read more history. If we count the Romans as barbarians then they were historically fiercer than anyone. Disciplined yes, but warlike in the extreme and savage in victory. Harris, W. V.: "War and Imperialism in Republican Rome, 327- 70 BC," Oxford, 1979. Goes into much detail on this. I do not agree on all his points, but I do percieve the Romans as incredibly brutal even for a brutal time, a belief supported by much evidence.

However, they were brutal sort of like the Germans of WWII were, not very "wild, untamed and barbarian", but rather organised and brutal.

The most untamable barbarians would be the Germanic tribes probably and in EB I would say Sweboz with Getai as second, those 4+ Chevron units really kick behinds...

[artavazd]

I do not wish to derail the thread, but you have an agreement with EB to read more history. If we count the Romans as barbarians then they were historically fiercer than anyone. Disciplined yes, but warlike in the extreme and savage in victory. Harris, W. V.: "War and Imperialism in Republican Rome, 327- 70 BC," Oxford, 1979. Goes into much detail on this. I do not agree on all his points, but I do percieve the Romans as incredibly brutal even for a brutal time, a belief supported by much evidence.

However, they were brutal sort of like the Germans of WWII were, not very "wild, untamed and barbarian", but rather organised and brutal.
The most untamable barbarians would be the Germanic tribes probably and in EB I would say Sweboz with Getai as second, those 4+ Chevron units really kick behinds...

We can say that about all of the participants of wwII (destruction of Drezden?, Hiroshima Nagasaki?)

[Cute Wolf]

I think Romans are barbarians in some aspect, but in this thread, classifying Romans as barbarians will derailing this good thread, and we need to classify that what did we said as barbarians in this thread are those who have "barbarian culture on EB", as no one speak about the Nomads as a barbarians.....

[Macilrille]

We can say that about all of the participants of wwII (destruction of Drezden?, Hiroshima Nagasaki?)

I think this is not the place for such a discussion and was but providing an example, but to my mind there is a world of difference between bombing civilian populations to break the will of a state to fight and the organised mass murder carried out by Nazi Germany. No one else had Einsatstruppen and extermination camps. That debate, however, does not belong here, I just cannot abide historical inaccuracy- five of my balloons was earned by correcting inaccurate claims on the Waffen SS.

I especially cannot abide it from apologists, which- I am sorry to say (I hope it is not so)- your comment to my example smacks of. With heads of state denying The Holocaust there is the more need than ever to keep the memory of it without blaming the poor Germans of today- how can they be responsible for what their grandparents did? I for one has no bad conscience because my ancestors plundered the civilised world a thousand years ago ;-) But we must remember!


Now the thread is about the EB timeframe, and I believe the OP meant barbarian factions in the sense of having barbarian building tree, in other words West European cultures/peoples without an organised state or at most organised on the level political scientists call Chiefdoms.

[Ludens]

This is indeed not the right place to discuss that subject. A similar discussion is currently going on in the Monastery, though.

Let's go back to topic. Any further "Romans are Barbarians" nonsense in this thread will be deleted.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Wow, Romans as the nazis of antiquity, that's a new level. I want to point out that Macilrille does not belong to the Romaioktonoi and step out of this thread because it was derailed and I don't want to be drawn into this, and especially not into some kind of German bashing.

[ziegenpeter]

I think this is not the place for such a discussion and was but providing an example, but to my mind there is a world of difference between bombing civilian populations to break the will of a state to fight and the organised mass murder carried out by Nazi Germany. No one else had Einsatstruppen and extermination camps.

We can say that about all of the participants of wwII (destruction of Drezden?, Hiroshima Nagasaki?)

I don't want to talk down to you guys and I appreciate the effort. I myself like to be corrected wether it's in a foreign language or even in my mother tongue, so it is:

Dresden and Einsatztruppen ;)