What is this "pizza" you speak of?

[Lemur]

In deference to a terminally derailed thread in the Backroom, let us discuss all things pizza. Me, I'm an inclusive sort of lemur, and I think if you call it pizza, it's pizza. But there are clearly purists who hold that X is the only true pizza.

For my money, nothing is superior to the Carmen's stuffed spinach pizza in Chicago. A single slab of that stuff will feed a platoon for a week. Amazing food. Behold:

[Rhyfelwyr]

Maybe we should askthepizzaguy?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Pizza is one of those foods like potato chips or milkshakes that it just doesn't make sense to have "gourmet" or high quality, fancy recipes. They taste good because they are chock full of unhealthy fats and carbs that we find tasty because it was an evolutionary advantage to do so. And since those ingredients are cheap, papa johns is the best pizza. I've had lots of other pizza that's as good as papa johns mind you, but the people who claim it's better are the types who automatically downgrade something if it's mass produced. Coke is the only product I've ever seen be immune to that.

[HoreTore]

Alright, everything called pizza is pizza. I have no problems with that.

My point in ze other thread was about which country has the best pizza. And the best I have ever had is the Italian variant. And the greek one which is basically the same.

But I still enjoy the thicker american variant, of course. But the thin Italian one is something special, it honestly can't be compared to the thicker variants.

And of course, the more prominent a dish is in a region, the more people specialize in making it, the better it will be, period. American pizza is one dish out of 100 others. In Italy, pizza is more special than it is in the US; and they have thus become better at it.

Kinda like how turks and pakistani immigrants make the best kebab, while ethnic norwegians make crap kebab.

Pizza is one of those foods like potato chips or milkshakes that it just doesn't make sense to have "gourmet" or high quality, fancy recipes. They taste good because they are chock full of unhealthy fats and carbs that we find tasty because it was an evolutionary advantage to do so. And since those ingredients are cheap, papa johns is the best pizza. I've had lots of other pizza that's as good as papa johns mind you, but the people who claim it's better are the types who automatically downgrade something if it's mass produced. Coke is the only product I've ever seen be immune to that.

Yes, the american version is chok full of unhealthy stuff... The italian version isn't.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Pizza isn't really the kind of thing you have a “best” variant of. It's somewhat like asking about the “best” colour. We can agree that in general violent pink isn't 100% suitable for every occasion; just like how we can agree you probably shouldn't add chocolate to pizzas. But the best mix/combination?

[Beskar]

What is so "unhealthy" in pizza?

Cheese is meant to be good for you.
Tomato is meant to be good for you.
Bazil (if going for more italian style) is meant to be good for you.
Some dough. (I don't see how that is bad).
Various meats. (Meat is good for you)

Problem? Only problem I can forsee is if you just stuff your face to excess.

[Megas Methuselah]

Pizza isn't really the kind of thing you have a “best” variant of. It's somewhat like asking about the “best” colour. We can agree that in general violent pink isn't 100% suitable for every occasion; just like how we can agree you probably shouldn't add chocolate to pizzas. But the best mix/combination?

The best colour is purple.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Fatty foods + carbohydrates(crust) + tastes really good so you eat lots of it. Usually you have soda with it as well, a shame not too really.

[Samurai Waki]

I prefer an ice cold beer with my Pizza, but Rootbeer used to be the thing to drink with pizza when I was a kid.

Anywho, there seems to be a rivalry between Chicago "Deep Dish" Fanatics, and the more traditional "New York" Styles. Both sides seem pretty much firmly entrenched in their beliefs that their pizza is better than the other, actually New Yorkers claim Chicago Style isn't Pizza at all, which of course is vehemently rebuffed by the Deep Dish fans. Nobody is debating whether or not real Italian Pizza is Pizza in America, because it is, it just happens to lack any definable character.

My feelings for mass produced pizza is the same feeling I have for Fast Food, McDonalds is free to call a disgustingly greasy, thin slab of mystery meat a hamburger, so Pizza Hut/Papa Johns is free to call a circular disk shaped object with soured tomato sauce, a light sprinkling of Mozzarella, and whole lotta bacon grease a Pizza, but I fail to see how one could possibly find this to be more appealing than, well, pretty much any small time Pizzeria that actually takes the time and spends a little extra money to make it taste, you know, like it should be consumed.

[Ibrahim]

EDIT:*ok, I need to calm down. had a VERY bad day.

but seriously, the best pizza? there is no such thing as the best pizza. all pizza, so long as it isn't cooked improperly (as in over or undercooked), is good. think about it: they all have lush layers of cheese, tomato sauce, and all sort of toppings. I love to smear my pizza with unhealthy stuff, even pepperoni (when I was in Kuwait-not in the US where its made of pork). and all that with lots of Coke.

besides, what kind of backroom topic gets into pizza?




ok...I need to stop wishing ill on the policy maker. sorry about that-I just lost my card to the 1st national bank's atm (so yes ATM's do steal your money), and when I called them, the workers said that all non 1st national cards get shreded the next day-no exceptions. isn't that great? 500 Dollars down the drain because some moron in the 1st national thought it was a good idea to shred people's cards, and ruin their livelyhood. sick ***.

[Whacker]

Mmmmm, Chicago-style pizza. Loves me some deep dish! Lord Whacker approves of The Great Prosimian's OP!

[Lemur]

besides, what kind of backroom topic gets into pizza?

America: Freest Country?

Seriously. I don't even want to try to reconstruct how we got from a debate of "freedom" to pizza, but it probably makes sense in some twisted Backroom sort of way.

[Aemilius Paulus]

What is so "unhealthy" in pizza?

Cheese is meant to be good for you.
Tomato is meant to be good for you.
Bazil (if going for more italian style) is meant to be good for you.
Some dough. (I don't see how that is bad).
Various meats. (Meat is good for you)

Problem? Only problem I can forsee is if you just stuff your face to excess.

By your reasoning, hamburgers are healthy as well:

Cheese slice is meant to be good for you.
Tomatoes is meant to be good for you.
Lettuce is a veggie; so are pickles.
Everyone knows how healthy onions are.
A bun. (I don't see how that is bad)
Beef patty (Meat is good for you, especially when it is beef, and not the fatty, unhealthy pork)

No, pizzas are junk food, as is a hamburger. Pizzas are high in simple carbohydrates (the complex carbs come from whole grain), very high in fat and saturated fat, along with cholesterol. Serisouly, mots pizzas are soaked in grease. Most pizzas have very little vegetables, and the ones that do feature non-fresh, over-cooked veggies, which have lost most of their nutritional content.

The cheese used in the pizza is notoriously greasy, and in general all cheeses, except the low-fat varieties, are chock full of fats. For instance, the minuscule slice of American cheese, found in a hamburger has 50% saturated and regular fat - we have it in our fridge, and I always check the nutritional fact of everything I eat.

The meat in the pizza is plentiful, but it is pork - pepperoni and salvage are pork. High in cholesterol, saturated fat, regular fat, and containing harmful amounts of dioxins, as all the red meat (which pork is not, but shares too man similarities, including dioxin contamination). We all know why red meat is bad, and how it causes cancer, and how it is better to eat poultry or even better, fish.

The dough is white, bleached flour, which has simple carbs, plenty of calories and fat without any fiber or other benefits of whole grain bread.

No, pizzas are junk food. It is common knowledge, and in this case, common knowledge is correct. Although Papa John's pizza is of superior taste, quality, and nutrition to to other brands, such as say, Dominoes, it is nevertheless fast food, and unhealthy.

Final note: the pizza they make in Italy is relatively much better, nutritionally speaking. And Italians are not as heavy eaters or as light exercisers as Americans are.

[naut]

What is so "unhealthy" in pizza?

Cheese is meant to be good for you.
Tomato is meant to be good for you.
Bazil (if going for more italian style) is meant to be good for you.
Some dough. (I don't see how that is bad).
Various meats. (Meat is good for you)

Problem? Only problem I can forsee is if you just stuff your face to excess.

Nothing unhealthy about a pizza like that. But, fast food pizza is unhealthy because of the amount of oil they use to speed up the cooking process.

[coalition]

Anyone tried a deep fried pizza before?

[ajaxfetish]

I haven't had pizza in Italy, Greece, or dozens of other countries, so I can't give an educated opinion on who has the best pizza, but I feel safe saying China has the worst. I think it's tied to the complete absence of any dairy products in the country. They also haven't figured out how to do ice cream, yet, though they're trying. My wife got what looked like an ice cream bar, but turned out to be something like frozen creamed corn on a stick. None of the other "ice-cream-like" products were any closer to the real thing.

In terms of American pizzas, I've had the pizza in New York, and frankly, I wasn't that impressed. The first time I had a deep dish (and it was Papa Murphy's, not anything from an actual Chicago pizzeria), I was floored. Those things are amazing, and redefine the limits of what humanity and food are capable of together. My vote goes to Chicago.

Ajax

This is close to what the pizza they served us in China looked like: The Chinese Attempt

[Xiahou]

My favorite chain is Grotto Pizza.
But when you live so near to the pizza capital of the world, as I do, you have to hit the local places for the really memorable stuff.

[Fragony]

I must admit that looks seriously awesome. I guess when Americans say deep-pan they really mean it. You are supposed to eat one if those???

But I still enjoy the thicker american variant, of course. But the thin Italian one is something special, it honestly can't be compared to the thicker variants.

Special in a way that it is called Italian but is hardly served in Italy. Personally I think it's quite rediculous that Scandinavians are allowed to have an opinion in pizza. I know

[Banquo's Ghost]

I hate to break this to you Lemur, but that is a flan.

[Fragony]

We also have a variation, the quiche



But what the Lemur has there is more pizza than it is pie imho.

[Ibrahim]

America: Freest Country?

Seriously. I don't even want to try to reconstruct how we got from a debate of "freedom" to pizza, but it probably makes sense in some twisted Backroom sort of way.

I don't go to the backroom (have no access, don't want any), so I asked.

but I get the idea. I don't need to know anymore.

[Andres]

This thread makes me hungry...

EDIT: my favourite pizza is the quattro formaggi

[AlexanderSextus]

I have eaten Pizza in Italy as well as Pizza here in the US. Italian pizza has:

*Better sauce.
*better veggies
*Better spices.

American Pizza has:
*more variety
*bigger slices
*better crust

In the NYC vs. Chicago argument, being from NJ, i have to say that Chicago style "pizza" is not Pizza, but i can overlook that because it is freakin amazingly delicious.

NYC pizza is very good but it is getting way too Americanized. Don't get me wrong, i like the innovative ideas they have come up with here, like Buffalo wing pizza, Ham&pineapple pizza, these taste very good, but they are in no way traditional.

Then you have NJ pizza. NJ pizza is almost like NYC pizza but we tend to stick to old world recipes and use fresher ingredients. Basically combine the Italian Pizza with the NYC pizza and you have NJ pizza.

Word to the Wise: if you ever come to NJ, don't buy pizza from the big professional chains or restaurants. Go down to the Jersey shore and get a slice from any small Mom&Pop owned pizza place along the boardwalk. It's HEAVEN in a slice.

[Azathoth]

Like most other foods, pizza isn't unhealthy unless you habitually overeat.

That said, this place has some great chicken pizza and buffalo wings.

[Hooahguy]

deep-dish rules.

[Lemur]

I guess when Americans say deep-pan they really mean it. You are supposed to eat one if those???

A human being can eat maybe one slice. Two if they are competition-grade eaters. When I was young and poor, a single Carmen's pizza could keep me going for a week or more. (Admittedly, ir didn't taste as good after a freeze and re-heat, but it was still better than Ramen Noodles, and the calorie-for-dollar count was favorable.)

I hate to break this to you Lemur, but that is a flan.

Go tell some Chicagoans that their pizza is actually flan. Please. And make sure somebody videotapes the subsequent beating.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Like most other foods, pizza isn't unhealthy unless you habitually overeat.

Nice way to absolutely ignore my post... But of course, that was purposeful, eh?

[coalition]

Nice way to absolutely ignore my post... But of course, that was purposeful, eh?

Ever heard of tl;dr?

[Aemilius Paulus]

Ever heard of tl;dr?

I think we all have...

Pardon me, I forgot to [insult] my posts for my fellow EB Taverners. You'll have to excuse those poor brutes - they are not capable of [insult] . God, they remind me so much of [obscenity]...

At least they could have paid lip-service to my post... Lip service is better than no service .

[Samurai Waki]

Come on this is about Pizza. Healthy or not, shouldn't matter. Although it can be hazardous to eat if you get a really hot slab of cheese that slaps you in the chin and gives you a 2nd degree burn.