Pirate Ship Mafia [Concluded]

[shlin28]

Well this is confusing for a mere pirate...

From what I see, the officers are withholding information, and so are the anti-officers. A complete domination from either side would be bad for us, whilst with two competing side we will have more interesting and perhaps useful discussions...

Vote: RR

Pick a side already, not like RR to be.. so... quiet?

(PS, I know reasoning is stupid...)

[Louis VI the Fat]

For the record, that "Fake protection group" was one I and three over people were in. So unless you define "fake" as meaning "real", your logic is screwy at best, and suspicious at worst.

Can you refresh my memory here? You and AVSM were protecting someone? Was there an attack?

(Or PM me)

[Andres]

Well this is confusing for a mere pirate...

From what I see, the officers are withholding information, and so are the anti-officers. A complete domination from either side would be bad for us, whilst with two competing side we will have more interesting and perhaps useful discussions...

Vote: RR

Pick a side already, not like RR to be.. so... quiet?

(PS, I know reasoning is stupid...)

Suspicious PS

[Askthepizzaguy]

Also - I am slowly begining to think that some players are required by role to be anti-officer.

It would explain the foreshadowing by the Host in the beginning of the game:

Of course, if all trust is lost and vigilante justice becomes common, they themselves could be their greatest enemy.

That's nice storytelling, but it seems to me this game was designed with the idea of townie-on-townie violence purposefully in mind, to cause disunity and chaos... enough such that the mafia should have a decent chance of winning. In particular, anti-officer sentiment. That would explain the utterly ridiculous and baseless calls for a mutiny so early on in the game. Mafia would probably not be crazy enough to immediately challenge the establishment, who have investigative, blocking, and killing powers. Shows up on the radar too soon. So... why would townies wish put someone into office and then oppose them immediately? That would seem contrary to a standard townie strategy.

You might be onto something there, Louis. Very creative game set-up, if this is how it was designed. I couldn't imagine a Pirate Ship mafia without mutinous players. Given the amount of pro-town roles we were given, and basic townies, compared to how few mafia there were to start with, it seems to me the game would be terribly unbalanced, and not characteristic of the spirit of piracy, if town were so united and powerful. The balancing element, it seems, is disunity.

Ergo, seamen who must work to depose the officers.

Crazed Rabbit, what have you gotten me into?

[Andres]

You guys are seriously underestimating the FUN factor that a mutiny would bring.

I'm sure GH has a hilarious write-up ready about the funniest mutiny ever, but you guys are just refusing to cooperate.

[Askthepizzaguy]

If you're so sure you're not a threat, just step down from the position. Why is that so difficult? Surely there are other people who have been investigated and found innocent. Why do you have to be the one in that spot?

Because it is totally pointless for me to die, and if I am to be removed from the QM position, I need to be dead. Otherwise I'm recruit-able and too many people spilled their info. And you know this already, because we discussed it on the round I asked to be lynched.

Again, this is too sloppy for you. It's deliberate. You simply want me, specifically, removed and dead. Even though several people vouched for my innocence. It's pretty transparent. There's no other reasonable explanation. And you're a reasonable guy.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

unvote:avsm, vote:shlin

[Askthepizzaguy]

Can you refresh my memory here? You and AVSM were protecting someone? Was there an attack?

(Or PM me)

Miotas, Subotan, AVSM= protecting A completely inoffensive name. (posted in-thread already so it's not a leak)

[Louis VI the Fat]

You guys are seriously underestimating the FUN factor that a mutiny would bring.

Mutiny is anti-captain. I think there are anti-FM and anti-QM roles too.

Face it, you and Tincow love your fun. BUT...you are not calling for mutiny. Andres has, since the very beginning of the game been specifically anti-First Mate. Tincow is not after mutiny either. He is specifically anti-Quartermaster.

And the two of you are too good of a player, to reasonable, to behave the way you two do in this game.

[shlin28]

Suspicious PS

Apologies, but I meant "My reasoning is stupid"



*Walks off into the cargo hold shamefully*

[Louis VI the Fat]

unvote:avsm, vote:shlin

What is so scummy about Shlin's post?

Or are you jumping to the defense of Reenk here?

FoS: Sasaki, (and Reenk?)

*Walks off into the cargo hold shamefully*

And go fetch me a new bottle of rum while you're down there.

[Beskar]

Shlin28 isn't the Mafia.

[TinCow]

Because it is totally pointless for me to die, and if I am to be removed from the QM position, I need to be dead. Otherwise I'm recruit-able and too many people spilled their info. And you know this already, because we discussed it on the round I asked to be lynched.

Strange how you were suicidal and argued for your own lynch before you got in office, yet now you think your death would be pointless. There's another option, you know... abandon ship. If you're so selfless and pro-town, you can remove yourself from the game without causing any problems. But you won't do that, will you? You didn't do it before when your very existence was a threat to us all. Instead, you made grandiose threats about how much a disaster it would be if you still lived and *poof* you were an officer.

So, tell me... when this whole thing started, why didn't you just abandon ship, Mr. Self-less Pro-town Pirate?

Again, this is too sloppy for you. It's deliberate. You simply want me, specifically, removed and dead. Even though several people vouched for my innocence. It's pretty transparent. There's no other reasonable explanation. And you're a reasonable guy.

Of course it's deliberate... I didn't think I could make my intentions any more clear. I've been trying to get you out of office for a long time now. I pursued it mainly via private channels in an attempt to keep the issue from derailing the discussion, but those efforts have obviously failed. So, I'm now doing it publicly.

Tincow is not after mutiny either. He is specifically anti-Quartermaster.

I am no such thing. I never had a beef with Sigurd before he was lynched, nor will I complain about anyone who is put into the position after ATPG. I am anti-ATPG, not anti-QM.

[Beskar]

If you're so sure you're not a threat, just step down from the position. Why is that so difficult? Surely there are other people who have been investigated and found innocent. Why do you have to be the one in that spot?

Your logic is screwy. If he steps down with the information he knows and get converted by the Mafia, then the town would be lost.

Only way you are going to get him down, if you kill him.

[White_eyes:D]

For the record, that "Fake protection group" was one I and three over people were in. So unless you define "fake" as meaning "real", your logic is screwy at best, and suspicious at worst.

Yeah, we have a stellar record for hitting the Brits...

The Brits must have formed a "Fake" pro-town group....or we have just conveniently been missing them, which I find totally unlikely.

[TinCow]

Your logic is screwy. If he steps down with the information he knows and get converted by the Mafia, then the town would be lost.

Only way you are going to get him down, if you kill him.

Again, he can abandon ship. He was 'selfless' enough to offer his own death before he got into office, though apparently not selfless enough to take himself out of the picture. If he's really got the town's interests at heart, he can remove himself from the game in that manner without causing any other problems.

[Yaropolk]

TC - I am missing your argument here. What would be the advantage of ATPG leaving the ship vs staying on as officer?

[TinCow]

TC - I am missing your argument here. What would be the advantage of ATPG leaving the ship vs staying on as officer?

I believe if he remains as an officer the town will lose. Let's call it a 'gut feeling' and leave it at that.

[Chaotix]

But right now, he's been investigated as innocent, while 100% corruptible.

WHY WOULD YOU WILLINGLY WANT A TOWNIE TO DIE?

Whether or not ATPG is killed or leaves the ship is inconsequential, as he is in effect removed from play either way. The way that the mafia wins is by removing townies from play.

If the town (presumably you) wants to kill the town, then that is called suicide. You don't win if you kill yourself.

The notion that the town would be better off if more of it were dead and gone strikes me as nothing short of ridiculous.

EDIT: How interesting. It appears TC cannot come back with a counter-argument to this.

[TinCow]

But right now, he's been investigated as innocent, while 100% corruptible.

WHY WOULD YOU WILLINGLY WANT A TOWNIE TO DIE?

I don't want a townie to die, I want ATPG to die. There's a difference.

Ask yourself something: why didn't ATPG simply abandon ship when he was 'found out' that he was recruitable? He forced the town to decide between lynching him and making him an officer... yet those weren't the only options. Why did he ignore the third option? The answer to my rhetorical question is that he never had any intentions of dying or abandoning ship... he was making a power move for the QM position. Why would he do that?

[Askthepizzaguy]

It's clear the only thing TC cares about is my removal, and I will assume he will continue sending vigilantes after me or the people supporting me until I end up dead. As such, he's obviously not putting any effort into tracking down and destroying mafia. Let him continue with his quest, perhaps when he succeeds he will be happy. But otherwise, I'd consider him an unreliable source of information, analysis, or leadership.

Especially suspect is his claim that with me in office, town will lose. I wonder why that is. I can be ignored, roleblocked, etc... and I am also, again, fully investigated. What he's saying makes no sense and is an obvious lie.

Ask yourself something: why didn't ATPG simply abandon ship when he was 'found out' that he was recruitable? He forced the town to decide between lynching him and making him an officer... yet those weren't the only options. Why did he ignore the third option?

This, too, we covered during that round.

Abandoning ship isn't a sure thing. It has a significant chance of failure. I wasn't willing to take the risk, I would rather die than risk that. And you know all of this, too. Why are you causing us to repeat already posted information?

[Subotan]

I'm tired, I need sleep and I don't have the energy to play mafia.

However, I have learned one thing from the past few hours; I am sick and tired of TinCow's bull, and if he's not mafia, then he's diverting energy from looking for them. Since I don't seem to have any other practical alternatives before I go to sleep, Vote:Tincow

Edit: Woo, 1,000th Post

[Crazed Rabbit]

Tincow, this is rather pointless. You believe ATPG means the town will lose? A remarkably different attitude from Capo, isn't it?

Perhaps we could concentrate on subjects and not this bickering.

CR

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm not totally convinced on AVSM. Is there another suspect, or should I bandwagon away?

[TinCow]

Tincow, this is rather pointless. You believe ATPG means the town will lose? A remarkably different attitude from Capo, isn't it?

Perhaps we could concentrate on subjects and not this bickering.

CR

Very well, I will speak with you about this via PM.

[Beskar]

I am not happy with the administration. It gives vitial information willynilly to people who can be corrupted which also have alternative agendas like getting a ton of gold and abandoning ship and doesn't inform people who are truly on the towns side, anything.




*insert random smilies here*

[Crazed Rabbit]

I'm not totally convinced on AVSM. Is there another suspect, or should I bandwagon away?

We don't want to bandwagon anyone, we want to get discussion about subjects going.

CR

[pevergreen]

Take a step back. Both sides.


Officers: Try to look at it from our side.

All we can see if you guys saying "Oh yeah, we were cleared by the investigators. Who are they? Not telling."
Someone accuses an officer, another one clears him saying "I investigated him" great! But we don't know if that person is innocent or not. Its a big circle.

ATPG, you did make it. You forced the town into believing that they would lose if you did not get put into an uncorruptable role. I have no doubts it was a great move, but the simple fact is, I don't enjoy playing mafia with you anymore. You have stated that you wanted to stand back and roleplay, and I can see that you can still do that while in the QM position, but the fact remains, people are still going through you.

I dislike the pro town group. The whole idea. While I appreciate that leaving subtle clues in thread to say "Oh hey, I'm the doctor." which you hope the detective will pick up on, or the other way around, so the doctor will protect you, without confirming it via PM. I understand not everyone feels that way, and I am not hosting this game, so I play along.

Why do I dislike the pro town group? Because it takes away from what I think mafia should be. The uninformed majority vs the informed minority. When you get a block of anywhere between 3-x people, all being cleared internally, just saying "This person is todays lynch" and so on, there is no fun. This happened in Netherworld mafia. Although, a mafia member (myself) and a serial killer who formed his own mafia and won (TinCow) infiltrated it. It was a brilliant play by TC. He forced me to be lynched or break a rule, I broke a rule and payed for it. But since then, it has just been happening more and more.

What you all should do is stop focusing on who the maven are. In my opinion, (since I can't reveal facts) the maven are no longer a problem as of last night.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I can always resign from playing if need be.

[taka]

uh... vote: abstain for now ?