It's just a little rabbit!

[Durallan]

for monty python fans, the title page should give you an idea of where I'm heading, those that don't lets press on, all shall be revealed.

I have been playing a 1.5 United Provinces campaign N/N, it hasn't been the easiest start I've had, its been very challenging campaign wise, (I should knock up the battle difficulty to hard probably) I've reached 1722, I was sending my best navy back to Holland to deal with the Swedes, who I had to declare war on because of an alliance with Hannover, so I get near the spanish coast and a spanish fleet intercepts me, I think hah! just a buch of sloops no doubt...

(apologies to non widescreen users)





first throught?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

RUN AWAY!!!


I don't know whether to be impressed or terrified!

These 2 extra pictures for those curious about the current state of play in my campaign.

[Fisherking]

So a 20 ship fleet is now possible?

Gee! Thanks Devs for letting us know.

I wonder if players can do it too, not that any one has that kind of money to sink into such a fleet.

[Prussian to the Iron]

ive had 20 ship fleets possible since release....dont know what youre talkin about...

[Fisherking]

ive had 20 ship fleets possible since release....dont know what youre talkin about...

So you are able to build 20 ships in a stack while the rest of us have always had 10?

[Monsieur Alphonse]

So you are able to build 20 ships in a stack while the rest of us have always had 10?

I have had 20 ships in a stack from the beginning. It is simply your hardware that is determines the amount of ships you can have.

[rvg]

I have had 20 ships in a stack from the beginning. It is simply your hardware that is determines the amount of ships you can have.

Yep, I've been able to have a 20-strong stack from day one.

[Prussian to the Iron]

So you are able to build 20 ships in a stack while the rest of us have always had 10?

I have had 20 ships in a stack from the beginning. It is simply your hardware that is determines the amount of ships you can have.

Yep, I've been able to have a 20-strong stack from day one.

I believe this calls for:

[hoom]

I think that is a unit size setting, on Huge you can have 20 ship fleets but on lower sizes you only get 10.

[pevergreen]

I believe this calls for

really?

[Durallan]

lol sorry folks, I should have said, I have army unit size set to huge, I didn't realise it increased naval fleet capacity! I figured land units just got bigger, average infantry size is 160 on huge.
It really freaked me out though! I haven't even dared go near spain since, I'm trying desperately to get steam power and everything I need for the steam powered dry dock, the irony is, the AI could have RUINED me I mean really ruined me, end of campaign ruin me, by blockading my commercial port in holland with that fleet (14K cash comes to me through that port, if that stopped, I'd be bankrupt) it is refreshing for once that I don't have the ultimate fleet and it means I finally get to fight the spanish armada! (200 or whatever it was years later but y'know!) it will be an interesting fight.

[Boohugh]

You should be able to take down that fleet with about 5 3rd rates, you don't really need anything bigger. Just concentrate on taking down the rigging and you can run circles around them and pick them off one by one, galleons aren't quite the force they used to be.

[Fisherking]

You should be able to take down that fleet with about 5 3rd rates, you don't really need anything bigger. Just concentrate on taking down the rigging and you can run circles around them and pick them off one by one, galleons aren't quite the force they used to be.

Are you playing 1.5?

I have seen that galleons are much improved over 1.3.1 and 1.4. Chain is not the wonder weapon it was either. You will have to work hard to take out 20 of the buggers!

And as to Steam Drydocks! I have found one or at most two are enough in a large Empire. The Naval Hospital is better for the most part.

All your third rates come with a chevron and third rates are what you need to pick off the galleons. Half their number should do it and a couple of 5th rates won’t hurt.


And for you huge unit fans, I use small or normal unit setting as the AI works better and may be more of a challenge.

[Boohugh]

Are you playing 1.5?

I have seen that galleons are much improved over 1.3.1 and 1.4. Chain is not the wonder weapon it was either. You will have to work hard to take out 20 of the buggers!

I'm not saying it would be easy, and would still be a rather epic battle, but it would certainly be possible

You're certainly right chain isn't as good in 1.5 but that doesn't mean it's bad either. In 1.4 you could take ships out using just chain shot and they'd surrender, which doesn't work now. What it's useful for (especially against larger fleets like the one in the screenshot) is taking down the rigging of each ship as it comes at you, sailing away abit, then taking down the rigging of the next one. When you've finally slowed them all down (will take some time with 20 of them ) you can start hammering them with round shot one at a time to sink/surrender them.

It may seem like a slightly cheesy tactic but I personally see it as using chain shot for it's intended purpose - slowing down ships and removing their manouverability, thus ensuring you always have local naval superiority. I've had some great naval battles (most won, some lost) in the 1.5 campaign I've been playing and really like where naval balance is currently.

[Fisherking]

I'm not saying it would be easy, and would still be a rather epic battle, but it would certainly be possible

You're certainly right chain isn't as good in 1.5 but that doesn't mean it's bad either. In 1.4 you could take ships out using just chain shot and they'd surrender, which doesn't work now. What it's useful for (especially against larger fleets like the one in the screenshot) is taking down the rigging of each ship as it comes at you, sailing away abit, then taking down the rigging of the next one. When you've finally slowed them all down (will take some time with 20 of them ) you can start hammering them with round shot one at a time to sink/surrender them.

It may seem like a slightly cheesy tactic but I personally see it as using chain shot for it's intended purpose - slowing down ships and removing their manouverability, thus ensuring you always have local naval superiority. I've had some great naval battles (most won, some lost) in the 1.5 campaign I've been playing and really like where naval balance is currently.

Personally, I try not to use round shot.

From the demo on I have been using chain shot and when they are spread out and crippled I go in with grape shot and rake them into submission.

I never use British Naval Tactics; go in close with round shot and strike them. That creates too money fires and explosions. And sunken ships count for 0 prize money.

Naval Prize Money has been in some campaigns the only cash I had to run the economy.

As for the 5 5th rates taking on 20 galleons, anything is possible but I would say ill advised in this version. I would recommend as the minimum force; 6 3rd rates and 2 5th rates...

Also when using chain it is best to give the enemy the weather gauge and catch them coming down wind with full sails.

If everyone were using battle sail then it would be a whole new game.

[Durallan]

you reckon the AI works better on smaller unit sizes? I haven't really been able to tell, with my old computer I used to use normal, but I figured with this pc I'd try huge, I thought it might mean more realistic battles (don't know how many people fought in battles normally in that period)

unfortunately I can't change unit size on the fly in a campaign otherwise I'd give it a try.

[Prussian to the Iron]

I'm trying desperately to get steam power and everything I need for the steam powered dry dock,

the steam drydock aint that great. and steamships are easily beaten by anything else, due to extremely low health. it has great maneuvarability and speed, and can sail without the wind, but it still sucks unless over-spammed.

[Fisherking]

From the beginning the AI has had less trouble maneuvering the smaller units and making better use of them tactically.

That seems to be an issue again in 1.5 with units getting stuck in walls or all not fitting on top.

I am willing to give the AI every advantage until the battle starts. If it works better and is smarter with small units, then I will give it to him.

Also, third time is the charm...

Steam Dry-docks are not the last name in ships.

All the ships from a Naval Dry-dock now come with experience bonuses. I build them two or three to one over the Steam Dry-docks.

[Boohugh]

As for the 5 5th rates taking on 20 galleons, anything is possible but I would say ill advised in this version. I would recommend as the minimum force; 6 3rd rates and 2 5th rates...

I said five 3rd rates, not 5th rates . You're absolutely right that using 5th rates against all those galleons would be very tough indeed

[Sheogorath]

He said it was in 1722 as well. Who has access to 3rd rates in 1722? Who, even, has access to that many galleons in 1722 (besides Spain, obviously)?

I mean, if you got lucky with your agent spawns and researched nothing but naval tech, yeah, but as the UP that probably wouldn't be a good idea.

[Fisherking]

I said five 3rd rates, not 5th rates . You're absolutely right that using 5th rates against all those galleons would be very tough indeed

Indeed you did! Not easy but doable.

I guess these poor old eyes are failing me.


And if Spain has that many galleons lurking they don’t have any troops....hint, hint....

[Durallan]

well I reached 1740, I got steam power, and by the way I've never really made the steam drydock for steam ships, in fact this is the first game I've ever made any, I build the steam drydock, for the heavy first rate, because while rather unrealistic (most nations only ever built the 74 gunners, or at least that was the main battleship of fleets) it is so damn fun! plus it takes a hell of a beating, which gives other ships more of a chance. The Dutch Navies first real fleet is 1 First Heavy Rate, 2 First Rates, 3 Razees and 2 steamships, I'll see how that works, its very hard to tell because all the campaign map unit cards are all so COMPLETELY WRONG! you have to exit your campaign and load up a battle to actually figure out what a units stats are, very irritating! (you'd think they could do a patch to like maybe fix that major omission!