Shooting At Ft.Hood

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Yes. Congrats to Fox for jumping to conclusions and making assumptions before the FBI has had a chance to investigate the case and discern motive and the pertaining facts of the case.

I'd say that assuming PTSD is a much larger jump than telling the two facts that he was both Muslim and had made comments that Muslims should rise up and drawing the appropriate conclusion.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I'd say that assuming PTSD is a much larger jump than telling the two facts that he was both Muslim and had made comments that Muslims should rise up and drawing the appropriate conclusion.

This is the telling bit:

Hasan had been optimistic that President Obama would start pulling troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan, Lee said, but when that didn't happen as quickly as he hoped, Hasan became angry.

"He was sort of a loner and kept to himself," Lee told Fox News. "He didn't socialize a lot with officers off duty or on duty."

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

This is the telling bit:

The thing about PTSD is that it comes afterwards...regardless, at this stage I'm going with the two and two make four explanation, though there is no reason he shouldn't be classified as crazy too.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The thing about PTSD is that it comes afterwards...regardless, at this stage I'm going with the two and two make four explanation, though there is no reason he shouldn't be classified as crazy too.

I don't think muslim + made comments = shooting is 2+2=4. The reason for the attack is probably very similar to the reason for the virginia tech shooting, whatever that was.

His cousins claim that it was harrassment that drove him to it is clearly bogus, there are many middle eastern people in the military who haven't gone on shooting sprees.

I don't see any way in which his religion is more than incidental.

[Papewaio]

Shoot unarmed oppenents: coward.

Coward does not wish to go to a combat zone. Tries everything possible, attorney, pay back the military, make rants online so that he is crazy (doing a Klingor). Then as all these way outs fail he continues on to become an ultimate coward and kill the people he should have been serving.

I'd say death penalty for him. I think it was preplanned out of fear of going to a dangerous region, he is not insane as he used all the other options up first. When cornered he fought like a wild animal, just in a method that we find despicable.

Like any wild animal put him down, and move on. What ever though system he might be derived from, it clearly did not make him a human.

[Major Robert Dump]

Well hopefully he will just tell the police why he did it. He obviously had a death wish, I don't see why he would suddenly start grovelling now.

If the guy was so miserable after 9/11 he should have resigned. He's had 8 years to get out, he's an officer FFS. Sounds to me like he liked the pay and the free med school but didn't like the cost that came with it when the Army tried to collect.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Very sad and tragic event. My thoughts and condolences go out to the bereaved families.

Doesn't our own Gelatinous Cube serve at Fort Hood? I hope he is OK.

[Fragony]

Yikes just heard of this this is just nasty, rip victims, and something with tongs and meathooks.

[Pannonian]

Very sad and tragic event. My thoughts and condolences go out to the bereaved families.

Doesn't our own Gelatinous Cube serve at Fort Hood? I hope he is OK.

Posted on 6th November 2009, 00:46 GMT.

I don't generally agree with Idaho on much, but I think he's really spot on here. There is no real difference between legal and illegal drugs, aside from the false perceptions and IMMENSE black market.

Legalise everything. Tax everything. Provide proper education and warnings for everything. Let people do what they want to their own bodies.

That said, criminals should still be punished. Lots of drugs ARE addictive, and some junkies would still resort to crime in order to pay for their habit. That's never going to go away, so why not legalise it and at least make the actual drug a non-issue (and, in fact, a gigantic economic boon) and continue to punish crime as normal?

Seriously. We have nothing to lose and everything to gain by ditching the reactionary attitude towards drugs and just legalising, regulating, and taxing them like alcohol and cigarettes.

I think the shock affected GC so much that he's starting to agree with Idaho. If he goes to Afghanistan and gets shell shock, he may even start agreeing with JAG.

[Subotan]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...-shooter-alive

An aide to Kay Bailey Hutchison, a Texas senator who was briefed by generals about the incident, said she had been told Hasan was upset about the deployment at the end of the year. Family and fellow officers said that he complained of harassment by other troops about his Middle Eastern ethnicity and Muslim faith.

Uh-oh.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Very sad and tragic event. My thoughts and condolences go out to the bereaved families.

Doesn't our own Gelatinous Cube serve at Fort Hood? I hope he is OK.

I believe GC is convalescing from an injury and probably wouldn't be in that part of the base. Hopefully he'll check in and tell us his experience with the lock-down, the base is huge like a small city.

So the shooter survived, that is good. He deserves execution.

[Fragony]

.

So the shooter survived, that is good. He deserves execution.

Not good, this is going to be a huge case with megaphones on all sides, him surviving is probably the worst thing that could have happened, every lunatic is going to make a point out of this from fuzzywuzzies to guncrazy militia's.

[Louis VI the Fat]

All news outlets I read and watched mentioned the background of the shooter. The main difference with Fox is that they seemed to delve deeper into the story, trying to get to the bottom of it. The mere fact he is a Muslim is not a complete explanation. Cho (Virginia Tech shooter) wasn't a Muslim, and those other millions of US Mulsims didn't kill 11 people either.



CNN released this interesting video. It is of Hasan a few hours before the shooting. He is wearing a traditional Arabian garb. Hasan was an American born of Jordanian descent, he didn't speak Arab well. Fully integrated, succesful. But troubled. Troubled by harasment, by being single at age 39. By being torn about America's involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan. By his own ambiguous identity, as a Muslim psychiatrist dealing on a daily basis with the trauma's of the wars.

The garb and Hasan's comments seem to indicate he radicalised, went on sudden Jihad. Just why he radicalised, became susceptible to it, seems the more interesting question. Did radicalisation trigger him, or provided fundamentalism the missing piece of the puzzle he needed, his 'honourable' way out.

Gah! If only Islam would allow suicide! The guy should've jumped before a train. Instead of taking down others with him, in a bizarre bid for an excusable way out.


http://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11...ect/index.html

[Andres]

I don't see how his religion or origin are relevant.

The guy's a nutjob. Crazy. Like any other person who wakes up and decides to go out and kill as many random people as he can for no reason (well, except for some fabricated, surreal reason which only in his own twisted mind justifies his actions; for any sane person, there simply is no justification for this).

You have nutjobs who want to re-play a movie, others some scene from a book, others claim they were inspired by a PC game, this one says something else.

Meh.

A nutjob, complete and utterly insane; that's all there is to say. Today, it's a US Army officer. Yesterday it was student, tomorrow it could be a lawyer.

How did this man become an officer in the US army? What selection procedures allow a mass murderer to pass and become an officer?

[Fragony]

I don't see how his religion or origin are relevant.

The guy's a nutjob. Crazy. Like any other person who wakes up and decides to go out and kill as many random people as he can for no reason (well, except for some fabricated, surreal reason which only in his own twisted mind justifies his actions; for any sane person, there simply is no justification for this).

That what my gut says too, I think a random brain fried here. This was not a terrorist attack at least, I would be very surprised if it is.

[Idaho]

How did this man become an officer in the US army? What selection procedures allow a mass murderer to pass and become an officer?

Un-needed comment removed

[Andres]

Isn't that precisely what you want an officer to be?

If all officers are like that, then they should be put in cages when not on a mission. And also when they are on a mission.

[Louis VI the Fat]

How did this man become an officer in the US army? What selection procedures allow a mass murderer to pass and become an officer?

Is that not putting it backwards? Is the question not how a US army officer became a mass murderer?

(Or, as Idaho stated so snappishly, an unconventional mass murderer?)

[Andres]

Is that not putting it backwards? Is the question not how a US army officer became a mass murderer?

(Or, as Idaho stated so snappishly, an unconventional mass murderer?)

Ok, I'll rephrase: What selection procedures allow a potential mass murderer to pass and become an officer?

[tibilicus]

I don't see how his religion or origin are relevant.

By far the best post in this thread. I agree completely.

So what if he's a Muslim? I'm pretty certain that this is the first case of a US born Muslim performing such an atrocity. When compared to the amount of Christian nut jobs who seem to do this sort of thing on a regular basis in America, his religion shouldn't be an issue at all.

Or is it OK for some of the fox news followers in this thread to ignore such a fact as after all this guys religion is waaaaaay more evil than your religion.

All religions have their nut jobs, hell this wasn't even religiously motivated, all sects of society have their nut jobs, deal with it. the fact that he's Muslim is irrelevant.

[Furunculus]

i first heard of this story last night from this very thread, and in all honesty wasn't particularly interested in the story of another nutcase going WACO on his neighbours. i got facts, i digested them, i left.

but we had a guest staying who is a card carrying guardianista, and she stuck bbc iplayer on to watch the morning news.................................................. and in five minutes of reporting I did not hear the word "muslim" once, and i got the impression that they didn't want to speak his name more than necessary because it sounded, you know, too muslim.

thank god the BBC is here to protect us proles from the dangerous extremes of our own minds!

[Devastatin Dave]

I'm pretty certain that this is the first case of a US born Muslim performing such an atrocity. .

WRONG!!! This has happen numerous times its just that its not highly reported because everyone is afraid of offending this cult and its members. Thank Jesus Christ God all Mighty that Islam is a peacefull religion or we would all be ####**!!!

[Husar]

Troubled by harasment
[...]
Just why he radicalised, became susceptible to it, seems the more interesting question.

Think about it, you sympathise with the people your own organisation is killing, yet you are loyal to your organisation, try to help it etc. Nonetheless members of your own organisation are harassing you because of your connection to the people they are fighting against. The link in the OP also mentioned that he was apparently targeting people he knew, perhaps those who were harassing him?
Looks like he was in the middle but forced to take a side, now what sort of idiot would take the side of the guys who are harassing him because of his beliefs or skin colour?

If he was some jihadist nutjob who was dangerous from the start then congrats to the US army for being idiotic enough to hire him and letting him take care of their wounded.

[Fragony]

Looks like he was in the middle but forced to take a side, now what sort of idiot would take the side of the guys who are harassing him because of his beliefs or skin colour?

Ohhhhhhh poor guy he was just too much a peaceful person to give them a proper hit on the nose, and than it all went wrong you can take that for only so long after all, it became too distressing and he really tried but they simply don't understand him, howling to the moon is a great sign of respect. There is no excuse for what he did, no justification whatsoever.

[Husar]

Ohhhhhhh poor guy he was just too much a peaceful person to give them a proper hit on the nose, and than it all went wrong you can take that for only so long after all, it became too distressing and he really tried but they simply don't understand him, howling to the moon is a great sign of respect. There is no excuse for what he did, no justification whatsoever.

But there is a reason. You can either stop giving people reasons to do such things or keep wondering why "they're all just nuts".
I'm not saying give in to every demand but to stop harassment is not too much to ask, or is it?

[Agent Miles]

Human tragedy has no politics or religion. My condolences to all families concerned, even Hasan’s. Who can really say why some men hide their personal demons behind wider causes? Cowards pretend to be heroes and psychotics pretend to be psychiatrists. Everyone can join our Army, but by no means is an Army life for everyone. In February ’03 my wife and I sat in that theater on Fort Hood for my retirement briefing and we sat in the hallway of the Soldier Support Center across the street to out-process. This morning on every military post, they saluted the flag and went right back to training for the next mission.

[Vuk]

Human tragedy has no politics or religion. My condolences to all families concerned, even Hasan’s. Who can really say why some men hide their personal demons behind wider causes? Cowards pretend to be heroes and psychotics pretend to be psychiatrists. Everyone can join our Army, but by no means is an Army life for everyone. In February ’03 my wife and I sat in that theater on Fort Hood for my retirement briefing and we sat in the hallway of the Soldier Support Center across the street to out-process. This morning on every military post, they saluted the flag and went right back to training for the next mission.

Yeah, there is always a nut behind tragedies like this, but you are ignoring what motivates them. Yeah, politics and religion DO play a role. Look at Nazis, look at Crusades and Jihads (right or wrong, they resulted in enormous human loss), look at the horrors committed by the USSR. How can you say that politics and religion do not play a role?

[Nikos_Rouvelas]

I think both the shooters psychological condition and his belief in radical Islam pushed him over the edge. Thank God he did not get sent to Afghanistan where he would have had access to more powerful weapons.

[Prince of the Poodles]

WTH? A shoutout??

[Agent Miles]

JVA-He’s not motivated by anything larger than himself. He’s a coward pretending to be a soldier, a psychotic pretending to be a psychiatrist and a murderer pretending to be a holy warrior. He’s not the enemy; he’s just a pathetic failure hiding his insignificance behind a headline.