Shooting At Ft.Hood

[Samurai Waki]

Boo, ######, hoo about the muslims in the military. It should be a wake up call to keep an eye on them, thats what it SHOULD do. But I know exactly what will happen. Our Kenyan born President will come out tomorrow with the telepromters telling him to tell his subjects that Islam is a religion of peace and we should look at this as something else than what it really is, then all these poor soldiers at Ft Hood and throughout the Department of Defence will be sent to islamic sensitivity training. Thats what will happen. This isn't the first time a muslim soldier has gone sudden jihad on his fellow soldiers and it won't be the last.

Honestly Dave, I'm not trying to defend them. Thought it was a legitimate question. Actually... I'm far more concerned about the majority of non-muslim soldiers than this

[Devastatin Dave]

You might be right about the sensitivity training:



His cousin is quick to blame the way this is quoted, although that doesn't really say much

Yes, if only there was more sensitivity training, this whole thing could have been avoided. We should start dropping sensitivity training personnel into nothern Pakistan to combat the radical muslims there. With some kind words, a hug, and some self esteem I'm sure they will see the error of their ways and everything will be roses.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

This is the telling bit:

The thing about PTSD is that it comes afterwards...regardless, at this stage I'm going with the two and two make four explanation, though there is no reason he shouldn't be classified as crazy too.

[Devastatin Dave]

Honestly Dave, I'm not trying to defend them. Thought it was a legitimate question. Actually... I'm far more concerned about the majority of non-muslim soldiers than this .

Sorry dude, I need more sensitivity training.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The thing about PTSD is that it comes afterwards...regardless, at this stage I'm going with the two and two make four explanation, though there is no reason he shouldn't be classified as crazy too.

I don't think muslim + made comments = shooting is 2+2=4. The reason for the attack is probably very similar to the reason for the virginia tech shooting, whatever that was.

His cousins claim that it was harrassment that drove him to it is clearly bogus, there are many middle eastern people in the military who haven't gone on shooting sprees.

I don't see any way in which his religion is more than incidental.

[Prince of the Poodles]

PoP! Long time, no see.

CR

Thanks for the welcome! I always seem to be drawn here when I want to spout off about a major news event.

Yes. Congrats to Fox for jumping to conclusions and making assumptions before the FBI has had a chance to investigate the case and discern motive and the pertaining facts of the case.

Not really. I've seen no conclusions jumped to on Fox, just facts reported. I was saying that Fox is the only cable network that is reporting all the facts, not selectively leaving out things about his religion.

And if you want to complain about jumping to conclusions, you should tune to MSNBC or CNN. They're launching into any and all possible conclusions besides the most obvious one.


(OH - and I'm not some far right guy. I just don't enjoy being patronized by certain media outlets. Give me the facts and let me decide. )

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Not really. I've seen no conclusions jumped to on Fox, just facts reported. I was saying that Fox is the only cable network that is reporting all the facts, not selectively leaving out things about his religion.

Have they reported his height and weight?

And if you want to complain about jumping to conclusions, you should tune to MSNBC or CNN. They're launching into any and all possible conclusions besides the most obvious one.

Hasan attended prayers regularly when he lived outside Washington, often in his Army uniform, said Faizul Khan, a former imam at a mosque Hasan attended in Silver Spring, Md. He said Hasan was a lifelong Muslim.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

When you combine comments made with his religion, plus the fact that he was apparently not operating alone, that should ring other bells besides the PTSD one.

[Major Robert Dump]

Maybe he was mad because they told him he had to work on Man-love Thursday in Iraq.

Hey! We have a good candidate for the first military death penalty in a long time. Odd, I woulda thought that other muslim who fragged his leadership in Iraq would have gotten it, but I was wrong.

NOTE: I've been watching MSNBC all night because they play it in the bank I'm dealing with tonight, and I haven't seen them blame it on the military. They aren't exactly advertising that he is Muslim, but....please, stop with the Fox News is the truth stuff....I had to watch Fox all night last night and could only laugh at their election coverage....Fox is just as bad as the others, just the other side of the coin.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

When you combine comments made with his religion, plus the fact that he was apparently not operating alone, that should ring other bells besides the PTSD one.

Who the heck is talking about PTSD? Cho didn't have PTSD either.

Last I heard it was lone gunman, if that is incorrect then it throws the case in a new light.

I expect they'll search his computer right quick to see if he made those comments about jumping on a grenade vs suicide bombing. But that would be similar to the plays and essays they revealed of cho's. I think the autobiographical details can be revealing, but you can't pin the cause on them. The bells that should be ringing are the crazy ones (for lack of a better word).

[Papewaio]

Shoot unarmed oppenents: coward.

Coward does not wish to go to a combat zone. Tries everything possible, attorney, pay back the military, make rants online so that he is crazy (doing a Klingor). Then as all these way outs fail he continues on to become an ultimate coward and kill the people he should have been serving.

I'd say death penalty for him. I think it was preplanned out of fear of going to a dangerous region, he is not insane as he used all the other options up first. When cornered he fought like a wild animal, just in a method that we find despicable.

Like any wild animal put him down, and move on. What ever though system he might be derived from, it clearly did not make him a human.

[Major Robert Dump]

Well hopefully he will just tell the police why he did it. He obviously had a death wish, I don't see why he would suddenly start grovelling now.

If the guy was so miserable after 9/11 he should have resigned. He's had 8 years to get out, he's an officer FFS. Sounds to me like he liked the pay and the free med school but didn't like the cost that came with it when the Army tried to collect.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Very sad and tragic event. My thoughts and condolences go out to the bereaved families.

Doesn't our own Gelatinous Cube serve at Fort Hood? I hope he is OK.

[Fragony]

Yikes just heard of this this is just nasty, rip victims, and something with tongs and meathooks.

[Pannonian]

Very sad and tragic event. My thoughts and condolences go out to the bereaved families.

Doesn't our own Gelatinous Cube serve at Fort Hood? I hope he is OK.

Posted on 6th November 2009, 00:46 GMT.

I don't generally agree with Idaho on much, but I think he's really spot on here. There is no real difference between legal and illegal drugs, aside from the false perceptions and IMMENSE black market.

Legalise everything. Tax everything. Provide proper education and warnings for everything. Let people do what they want to their own bodies.

That said, criminals should still be punished. Lots of drugs ARE addictive, and some junkies would still resort to crime in order to pay for their habit. That's never going to go away, so why not legalise it and at least make the actual drug a non-issue (and, in fact, a gigantic economic boon) and continue to punish crime as normal?

Seriously. We have nothing to lose and everything to gain by ditching the reactionary attitude towards drugs and just legalising, regulating, and taxing them like alcohol and cigarettes.

I think the shock affected GC so much that he's starting to agree with Idaho. If he goes to Afghanistan and gets shell shock, he may even start agreeing with JAG.

[Subotan]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...-shooter-alive

An aide to Kay Bailey Hutchison, a Texas senator who was briefed by generals about the incident, said she had been told Hasan was upset about the deployment at the end of the year. Family and fellow officers said that he complained of harassment by other troops about his Middle Eastern ethnicity and Muslim faith.

Uh-oh.

[Fragony]

This is pretty bad, hope you guys can keep a clear head. A shame he survived best to drop them in a hole and forget all about them

[Hosakawa Tito]

Very sad and tragic event. My thoughts and condolences go out to the bereaved families.

Doesn't our own Gelatinous Cube serve at Fort Hood? I hope he is OK.

I believe GC is convalescing from an injury and probably wouldn't be in that part of the base. Hopefully he'll check in and tell us his experience with the lock-down, the base is huge like a small city.

So the shooter survived, that is good. He deserves execution.

[Idaho]

Nothing to see here, move on.

[Fragony]

.

So the shooter survived, that is good. He deserves execution.

Not good, this is going to be a huge case with megaphones on all sides, him surviving is probably the worst thing that could have happened, every lunatic is going to make a point out of this from fuzzywuzzies to guncrazy militia's.

[Louis VI the Fat]

All news outlets I read and watched mentioned the background of the shooter. The main difference with Fox is that they seemed to delve deeper into the story, trying to get to the bottom of it. The mere fact he is a Muslim is not a complete explanation. Cho (Virginia Tech shooter) wasn't a Muslim, and those other millions of US Mulsims didn't kill 11 people either.



CNN released this interesting video. It is of Hasan a few hours before the shooting. He is wearing a traditional Arabian garb. Hasan was an American born of Jordanian descent, he didn't speak Arab well. Fully integrated, succesful. But troubled. Troubled by harasment, by being single at age 39. By being torn about America's involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan. By his own ambiguous identity, as a Muslim psychiatrist dealing on a daily basis with the trauma's of the wars.

The garb and Hasan's comments seem to indicate he radicalised, went on sudden Jihad. Just why he radicalised, became susceptible to it, seems the more interesting question. Did radicalisation trigger him, or provided fundamentalism the missing piece of the puzzle he needed, his 'honourable' way out.

Gah! If only Islam would allow suicide! The guy should've jumped before a train. Instead of taking down others with him, in a bizarre bid for an excusable way out.


http://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11...ect/index.html

[Andres]

I don't see how his religion or origin are relevant.

The guy's a nutjob. Crazy. Like any other person who wakes up and decides to go out and kill as many random people as he can for no reason (well, except for some fabricated, surreal reason which only in his own twisted mind justifies his actions; for any sane person, there simply is no justification for this).

You have nutjobs who want to re-play a movie, others some scene from a book, others claim they were inspired by a PC game, this one says something else.

Meh.

A nutjob, complete and utterly insane; that's all there is to say. Today, it's a US Army officer. Yesterday it was student, tomorrow it could be a lawyer.

How did this man become an officer in the US army? What selection procedures allow a mass murderer to pass and become an officer?

[Fragony]

I don't see how his religion or origin are relevant.

The guy's a nutjob. Crazy. Like any other person who wakes up and decides to go out and kill as many random people as he can for no reason (well, except for some fabricated, surreal reason which only in his own twisted mind justifies his actions; for any sane person, there simply is no justification for this).

That what my gut says too, I think a random brain fried here. This was not a terrorist attack at least, I would be very surprised if it is.

[Idaho]

How did this man become an officer in the US army? What selection procedures allow a mass murderer to pass and become an officer?

Un-needed comment removed

[Husar]

Troubled by harasment
[...]
Just why he radicalised, became susceptible to it, seems the more interesting question.

Think about it, you sympathise with the people your own organisation is killing, yet you are loyal to your organisation, try to help it etc. Nonetheless members of your own organisation are harassing you because of your connection to the people they are fighting against. The link in the OP also mentioned that he was apparently targeting people he knew, perhaps those who were harassing him?
Looks like he was in the middle but forced to take a side, now what sort of idiot would take the side of the guys who are harassing him because of his beliefs or skin colour?

If he was some jihadist nutjob who was dangerous from the start then congrats to the US army for being idiotic enough to hire him and letting him take care of their wounded.

[Andres]

Isn't that precisely what you want an officer to be?

If all officers are like that, then they should be put in cages when not on a mission. And also when they are on a mission.

[Louis VI the Fat]

How did this man become an officer in the US army? What selection procedures allow a mass murderer to pass and become an officer?

Is that not putting it backwards? Is the question not how a US army officer became a mass murderer?

(Or, as Idaho stated so snappishly, an unconventional mass murderer?)

[Fragony]

Looks like he was in the middle but forced to take a side, now what sort of idiot would take the side of the guys who are harassing him because of his beliefs or skin colour?

Ohhhhhhh poor guy he was just too much a peaceful person to give them a proper hit on the nose, and than it all went wrong you can take that for only so long after all, it became too distressing and he really tried but they simply don't understand him, howling to the moon is a great sign of respect. There is no excuse for what he did, no justification whatsoever.

[Andres]

Is that not putting it backwards? Is the question not how a US army officer became a mass murderer?

(Or, as Idaho stated so snappishly, an unconventional mass murderer?)

Ok, I'll rephrase: What selection procedures allow a potential mass murderer to pass and become an officer?

[tibilicus]

I don't see how his religion or origin are relevant.

By far the best post in this thread. I agree completely.

So what if he's a Muslim? I'm pretty certain that this is the first case of a US born Muslim performing such an atrocity. When compared to the amount of Christian nut jobs who seem to do this sort of thing on a regular basis in America, his religion shouldn't be an issue at all.

Or is it OK for some of the fox news followers in this thread to ignore such a fact as after all this guys religion is waaaaaay more evil than your religion.

All religions have their nut jobs, hell this wasn't even religiously motivated, all sects of society have their nut jobs, deal with it. the fact that he's Muslim is irrelevant.