Dragon Age: Origins gameplay and discussion thread.

[frogbeastegg]

Finished. At first the ending was rather good, then it blew itself to pieces in a most disappointing way.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

There was lots of build up about the fact Alistair or the player character would have to die, which left my character in a very difficult position because of the romance. I decided my character should die, and went into the end part of the game with that knowledge looming over me. Made for a nice bit of atmosphere; in 99.9% of games you head into battle with the certainty your character will survive the credits sequence.

When the time came Alistair didn't give me a choice over who died slaying the arch demon. He made a damned good little speech, ran off while I was trying to tell him that I was the one who would finish it, snatched up a sword and killed it in a flashy cutscene. Very good indeed! Very flavoursome and somewhat unexpected. Then everyone immediately forgot he'd done anything, or that my character cared for him. He merited a "Poor boy!" from Wynne and a single sentence from what's her name the queen and that's it. Everyone was behaving as though it was the best day of my character's life, and going on about how I'd defeated the entire blight myself and gained everything I could have wanted. Zavran even made a weak pass at my character. Lelianna is forever going to be a heartless bitch in my mind because of her inane talk about the whole thing being like a nice stage play. This being the same character who started a lengthy conversation about how special Alistair and my character were, and how happy, and how pleased she was to see love blossom in terrible circumstances. Loghain the traitor got a statue, Alistair might as well not existed. Um, actually the hero's the dead guy, and I'm sort of a heart-broken widow so please reflect that with a bit of dialogue and maybe a 3 second shot of a funeral pyre!

With a bit more thought (actually, with any thought) they could have made that into a real bittersweet ending for the female Alistair romance line. That would have been good. Very good. Touching, even.

Oddly even though Alistair didn't get elected and didn't try to get elected, the game suddenly started treating him as the king during the final battle sequence. He gave a speech before the battle in which he claimed to be king, and his speech to me included some lines about how he was king and that dying for his kingdom was his duty.

Huh. They also kept telling me how I'd got my entire life ahead of me, happy happy joy joy, it's all fun and games from here on out, happily ever after with extra rainbows. Nope, as a grey warden I've got a decade or two of nightmares and blight related problems before I go mad and head off on a suicide mission. Another chance for a nice bit of bitter sweet in the ending thrown away.

The 6 origins are completely different and also, if you only play an RPG for best stats, you are playing a roleplaying game wrong. The whole thing about roleplaying games is that you 'role play'.

My point is that they apparently named the game after a character building mechanic. They should have named it after something related to the main plot since that's what the game's about. It took over 45 hours to finish ... and they apparently named it after the 1 hour long selectable intro.


...


Speaking of origins, I'm going to give the mage origin a thumbs down. In addition to a tedious opening quest that recycled material from the main plot line I got a handful of extra dialogue lines in various conversations and a few more different lines in the main mage tower quest, and that was it. I was expecting some reaction to the fact I was a member of a group treated with fear and suspicion, the kind of person whom the influential church viewed as half damned by mere fact of being alive and whom the populace at large considered to be a walking timebomb. Over and over I was told how distrusted mages are, that parents would abandon or murder their children if they found they had magic, that I'd be killed if I so much as looked at anyone wrongly, and there was an entire segment of the main plot which demonstrated why this attitude existed and the lengths people would go to. none of that mattered; when I introduced myself as a mage people reacted in the same uncaring way I'd expect them to if I announced I was a turnip seller.

I suspect the mage origin might be the worst of the 6. I've heard snippets of what happens in the other 5 and yup, they sound miles more original. I'll play through the remaining origin stories tomorrow, and then decide if I want a city elf or a dwarf commoner for my rogue character.

For those who haven't played it, the mage origin in a nutshell is:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Go through fade sequence involving several conversations and two battles, spot the obvious trick. Return to tower and talk to people. Run about the tower and talk to people. Get forced (either you choose to help him or you betray him and get told to pretend to help him so there's no practical difference) into helping an idiot who is meant to be your lifelong friend into escaping, an action which will mark you for a death sentence according to the lore you've seen thus far. Trot through a linear, short dungeon killing the odd enemy. The rubbish plan fails precisely as you knew it would from the moment you heard it, your friend shows that he's as corrupted as you suspected, and leaves you in the lurch. Enter grey warden to recruit the fallen prodigy.

[seireikhaan]

I'll play through the remaining origin stories tomorrow, and then decide if I want a city elf or a dwarf commoner for my rogue character.

I rather liked the city elf origin(done with a female), mostly for one particular line that just made my day:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Where's the that bottle'd me?!

[Beskar]

I rather liked the city elf origin(done with a female), mostly for one particular line that just made my day:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Where's the that bottle'd me?!

I like the convo with the king, but I think it might be the same as the female one. However, I did it as a male.

[FactionHeir]

I've played through the human and dwarf origins so far and one thing I disliked about the dwarf noble one is the inevitability of your character's fate. Even if you were gracious at the provings -> helmet. Other than that they were fairly alright, but human remains my favorite.

[Monk]

I've played through the human and dwarf origins so far and one thing I disliked about the dwarf noble one is the inevitability of your character's fate. Even if you were gracious at the provings -> helmet. Other than that they were fairly alright, but human remains my favorite.

Signed, though City Elf comes a very close second. I found Dallish to be.. lacking, and I haven't done the dwarven ones yet.

[Kekvit Irae]

Jeez, my Steam page clocks me in at 113.9 hours of Dragon Age gameplay this week. I think I might be addicted.

So far, I've played an entire game with a City Elf and a Human Mage, and I'm extremely pleasant with how the origins all fit into the gameplay itself. If you play a City Elf, you will be treated much better in the Alienage once you return to Denerim, as well as getting access to the shop again.

As far as companions go, Sha(y)le is my absolute favorite. You learn of Shale's past during the Paragon Of Her Kind quest line (provided you have Shale in your party during that point), and it's pretty deep for a DLC character. Shale also has a LOT of dialogue, and I think the best part of the entire game was the cutscene after getting Shale when you leave the village. Shale stomps on a chicken, and when you turn back to look, Shale just shrugs in a comical manner. Easily one of the funniest cutscenes in the game, along with the Superman homage in the Warden's Keep DLC.

[FactionHeir]

If you play a City Elf, you will be treated much better in the Alienage once you return to Denerim, as well as getting access to the shop again.

Afaik my human noble had access to the alienage shop too after completing that quest.

Actually, "too" is a misnomer here, so far in the city elf origin, I have not been able to use the shop at all.

Signed, though City Elf comes a very close second. I found Dallish to be.. lacking, and I haven't done the dwarven ones yet.

Tbh the dwarf noble was quite lenghty too without getting overly boring. Commoner just seemed way too short.

[Zenicetus]

My point is that they apparently named the game after a character building mechanic. They should have named it after something related to the main plot since that's what the game's about. It took over 45 hours to finish ... and they apparently named it after the 1 hour long selectable intro.

I'm not sure that's the only interpretation. As Bioware's first original (non-D&D) fantasy game, it introduces the world's lore, races, and magic system. I'm sure some modders will attempt total conversion mods, but I would assume that most upcoming expansions and mods will use this new fantasy world as a framework, like people used D&D for previous games. In that sense, I think "Origins" is a pretty good title for introducing a new (if somewhat un-original) fantasy world for gaming.

Speaking of origins, I'm going to give the mage origin a thumbs down. In addition to a tedious opening quest that recycled material from the main plot line I got a handful of extra dialogue lines in various conversations and a few more different lines in the main mage tower quest, and that was it. I was expecting some reaction to the fact I was a member of a group treated with fear and suspicion, the kind of person whom the influential church viewed as half damned by mere fact of being alive and whom the populace at large considered to be a walking timebomb. Over and over I was told how distrusted mages are, that parents would abandon or murder their children if they found they had magic, that I'd be killed if I so much as looked at anyone wrongly, and there was an entire segment of the main plot which demonstrated why this attitude existed and the lengths people would go to. none of that mattered; when I introduced myself as a mage people reacted in the same uncaring way I'd expect them to if I announced I was a turnip seller.

That surprised me a little too, especially since I'm playing a blood mage ("Fear me!" "What, you're not fearing me?" "I have to pay full price for this flask?"). I guess it's just a typical resource allocation problem, where the devs couldn't afford (maybe for reasons of download time or disk space) to script and voice-act a separate dialog tree just for mages. Or any of the other classes, for that matter, since they would have to treat all classes equally.

when I introduced myself as a mage people reacted in the same uncaring way I'd expect them to if I announced I was a turnip seller.

Also true, but I think it's part of a larger problem with most RPG's. The game world and NPC interactions don't track your character's progress from a kid fresh off the farm, to a demigod by the end of the game.

Playing Fallout 3, I get the exact same reaction strolling into some dinky refugee town, whether I'm straight out of the vault wearing pajamas, or a walking death machine wearing power armor and carrying alien weaponry. Same dialog, same blase' reactions from the NPC's. It was like that in The Witcher too, or Mass Effect towards the ends of those games. People should be backing away quietly, if not running for their lives at the mere sight of you. Everyone except the most powerful opponents, that is. Just once, I'd like to play an RPG that worked this way, because it starts to look ridiculous when you get near the end of the game.

[FactionHeir]

Thanks for the info frog, any information on whether they'll be fixing the effects staying on dead bodies? (i.e. ice, paralysis etc)
Reason being if you have a high magic mage (say 60+ like Morrigan in my game) and kill an enemy with ice/paralysis on, their corpse won't give loot until the spell wears off and if its a plot related body, the quest won't update/continue until that happens. Especially annoying in some sections where the next wave of enemies only appears after the current wave is dead.

[frogbeastegg]

Also true, but I think it's part of a larger problem with most RPG's. The game world and NPC interactions don't track your character's progress from a kid fresh off the farm, to a demigod by the end of the game.

Other RPGs didn't promise better, that's why it's irksome in DA:O. They said that your choice of origin will influence the way you experience the world and have repercussions throughout the game. That's supposed to be the whole attraction of the origin system.

I am definitely finding that my city elf is getting a much more tailored experience. Humans calling him knife ears or other degrading names, sneering at him for being a racial inferior, or patronising him as an elf who is working hard to better himself and be almost as good as a human.

Thanks for the info frog, any information on whether they'll be fixing the effects staying on dead bodies? (i.e. ice, paralysis etc)

Not sure. Xbox and PC have different patches and schedules. There's been 1 PC patch already and nothing for the xbox; I haven't seen any confirmation that they're looking into any of the minor yet annoying issues with the console version.

[Zenicetus]

I am definitely finding that my city elf is getting a much more tailored experience. Humans calling him knife ears or other degrading names, sneering at him for being a racial inferior, or patronising him as an elf who is working hard to better himself and be almost as good as a human.

Weird, I don't get much of that with my elf mage. Mostly he's just addressed as "Warden" with a degree of deference from most NPC's. I wonder if there are some alignment triggers there, since I'm playing this as a mostly neutral character leaning a bit towards the good or unselfish side when it comes to the major plot choices.

Are you playing your city elf with evil/selfish dialog choices? Or maybe it's tied to the non-Mage origin story for elves?

[Greyblades]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I just found sandal (the enchanter dwarf) in a tower near the end of the game bloodied and surrounded by piles of darks spawn. Blimey if he did that I wonder if I can recruit him into my party.

[Monk]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I just found sandal (the enchanter dwarf) in a tower near the end of the game bloodied and surrounded by piles of darks spawn. Blimey if he did that I wonder if I can recruit him into my party.

That was a rather amusing moment, I thought.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

"Sandal! What in the world happened here?"
"ENCHANTMENT!"

[Krusader]

Other RPGs didn't promise better, that's why it's irksome in DA:O. They said that your choice of origin will influence the way you experience the world and have repercussions throughout the game. That's supposed to be the whole attraction of the origin system.

Been playing Dalish Elf for a bit and I see no anti-Elven reactions so far, compared to what I'd expect from pre-release info. Also, apart from a templar taking notice of Morrigan in Lothering, I haven't seen anyone reacting negatively to me having an apostate in my party. Although it was refreshing seeing people in Lothering reacting somewhat negatively to me having Sten in party.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I also did not pick up Blood magic abilities from Warden's Keep DLC, as I thought that would come back to haunt me (due to blood magic being diabolical). And reading about people playing Mages who face no negativity when going Blood Mage specialization, well it detracts from the whole experience so to say. I expected that Blood Magic would be powerful, but that you'd face problems with Chantry & Templars/Alistair if you used it.

Lyrics?

It's become my favourite moment in the game as yet...They could've used it for something more momentous, but, anyhow, it's very nice, and atmospheric; The way they show the companions one by one.

No idea on lyrics. I liked how it showed the other companions, but I found Leliana's mouth to not synch well with the words. They could have done that part better in my opinion.
---

And regarding Sandal...I had vivid mental images of him bashing darkspawn with enchanting tools while gleefully yelling "Enchantment!!" Although I wondered where Bodahn went off to and actually looked around the corpses to see if he was among them.

[frogbeastegg]

I'm still in the grey warden quest area after the origin section. Part of the attitude came from Cailen with his patronising, ignorant comments about the alienages and his "Jolly good show, an elf trying to be a real warrior!" attitude. I didn't get that as a Dalish elf; in that origin he garbled on about their ancient traditions and honour in a respectful manner.

You know the bits of conversation you can overhear from NPCs? There's been the odd line like that too; random soldiers walking about and muttering things behind my back. From the comments here it looks like I shouldn't expect this to continue into the other areas :sigh:

I think Dalish elves get a bit more respect. They've got the mystical semi-legendary woodland folk thing going for them. City elves are one step above slaves, even the Dalish hold them in mild contempt as folk who surrendered their birthright to save thier skins.

Are you playing your city elf with evil/selfish dialog choices?

I'm no good at playing evil characters, I end up feeling guilty. My character's pragmatic and rather blunt in dialogue. I'll help but I don't want the 6 hour story and there'd better be a reward ... unless you're being oppressed by humans in which case I'm there for free. If the humans think this elf is going to bleed for their benefit then they're sadly mistaken.

Landsmeet and the ending will be fun.

Or maybe it's tied to the non-Mage origin story for elves?

The mage will take precedence over the elf. Origin -> race.

[Kekvit Irae]

Personally, I find the Mage origin to be very excellent. It ties directly into what happened at Redcliff Castle, and teaches you that

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

the only one you can trust in the game is yourself.

I consider the Mage origin in my top three origin stories, next to Dwarf Noble (oh lawdy, I do loves me some political intrigue), and the City Elf (racial segregation and social class differences... among other things).

I consider the Human Noble to be the worst of the bunch that I've played (haven't done the Dwarf Commoner or Dalish Elf origins yet).

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Get betrayed in the middle of the night and kill your way out of the castle. BOOOORING. At least it makes up for it with an alternate ending choice.

In my Mage playthrough, I became a total jerk. I chose all the "bad" allies, but in doing so

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Leliana, Shale, and Wynne all went hostile and I had to put them down like the rabid dogs that they were. Except for Shale, they will not be missed.

[Mailman653]

I have to say, listening to what the Guardian had to say was quite interesting, I'm looking forward to my next playthrough with different characters.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Has anyone defated the dragon thats outside? I gave it a go and got squashed pretty quick, I think ranged attacks are the way to go. I don't really need to fight it anymore since I got the ashes, but it looks like quite the challenge, I wonder if you get anything for defeating it.

[Kekvit Irae]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Has anyone defated the dragon thats outside? I gave it a go and got squashed pretty quick, I think ranged attacks are the way to go. I don't really need to fight it anymore since I got the ashes, but it looks like quite the challenge, I wonder if you get anything for defeating it.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Use a tank (preferably Alistair or Shale) that has Threaten on, and three ranged specialists (MC with bow or staff, Wynne, and Morrigan are my preferred group). Make sure that one or more of your mages have Force Shield and plenty of lyrium potions. Have your tank run in with Threaten on, and grab the attention of the dragon. Once you do, cast Force Shield on your tank. If you don't, your tank is vulnerable to the instant-kill attack by the dragon. Have your ranged specialists fire on the dragon (make sure your mages don't have any damage-dealing tactics, or you'll burn mana that's more needed for Force Shield). Once Force Shield is down, cast it again. If one of your mages (read: Morrigan) has Cone of Cold, use it. It will paralyze the dragon for a few seconds. Keep doing all of this until it is down, and you'll be able to get your reward: dragon scales (turn into Wade's Emporium for a very nice set of dragonbone armor) and an achievement.

[Beskar]

Personally, I find the Mage origin to be very excellent. It ties directly into what happened at Redcliff Castle, and teaches you that

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

the only one you can trust in the game is yourself.

I consider the Mage origin in my top three origin stories, next to Dwarf Noble (oh lawdy, I do loves me some political intrigue), and the City Elf (racial segregation and social class differences... among other things).

I consider the Human Noble to be the worst of the bunch that I've played (haven't done the Dwarf Commoner or Dalish Elf origins yet).

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Get betrayed in the middle of the night and kill your way out of the castle. BOOOORING. At least it makes up for it with an alternate ending choice.

In my Mage playthrough, I became a total jerk. I chose all the "bad" allies, but in doing so

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Leliana, Shale, and Wynne all went hostile and I had to put them down like the rabid dogs that they were. Except for Shale, they will not be missed.

(spoilers for the mage origin - froggy)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I didn't go along with Jowan, I grassed them up to the First Enchanter, rofl.

[rajpoot]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Just finished Nature of the Beast and Leliana sang a song at camp after that. I was wondering if anyone knew what exactly was she singing? I have the subtitle option on, but I couldn't see any lyrics, elvish or otherwise....

[FactionHeir]

Its called "Leliana's Song" in the soundtrack that came with the collector's. I think its sung in Welsh (?) just like other songs by that artist.

[rajpoot]

Lyrics?

It's become my favourite moment in the game as yet...They could've used it for something more momentous, but, anyhow, it's very nice, and atmospheric; The way they show the companions one by one.

[Vladimir]

Its called "Leliana's Song" in the soundtrack that came with the collector's. I think its sung in Welsh (?) just like other songs by that artist.

That and the "good" ending to the werewolf saga are what saved the game for me. I am very impressed.

Also, for the most part I notice that this is a "finished" product.