Alien vs Yakuza [Concluded]

[Death is yonder]

ATPG and TM, good game.





Darnit...

Oh well, at least I tried.

Although, I would go with ATPG and Split too, its a highly plausible option. I have no inkling what's TM's normal behavior, I tried my best.

I guess at least I provided some lulz for the mafia

[atheotes]

I am going to call ATPG and Splitpersonality.

Because I said something to ATPG about it being Split as the Mafia and the Mafia wouldn't kill me, unless it was atheotes. If I was alive, I wasn't going to vote for atheotes, but Splitpersonality instead, only person who knew about that was ATPG.

Good Game.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Though I am not sure what atheotes and TM were up to this game...

funny that you should blame it one me! Maybe you should take a close look at what you did the whole game

@ DIY - you have claimed that i have been a bad townie
what do you think i should have done differently? because except for the last round the only case against me has been Beskar claiming "Atheotes IS mafia" and there was no other discussion point

Good game to mafia

[Death is yonder]

Just that I thought that usually you would ignore Beskar and come back to normal discussion, although this game you strangely kept hammering back at the matter, when you could have just ignored Beskar and be done with it.

Ah, what's done is done.

All that's left now is to congratulate the winners.

[Beskar]

funny that you should blame it one me!

Can't believe it is not butter.

[atheotes]

Just that I thought that usually you would ignore Beskar and come back to normal discussion, although this game you strangely kept hammering back at the matter, when you could have just ignored Beskar and be done with it.

Ah, what's done is done.

All that's left now is to congratulate the winners.

unfortunately my time during the last week was limited and every time i got on this game i was on the chopping block and for no reason other than Beskar claiming "Atheotes is always mafia".
Only thing i probably should have done is vote myself out in the previous round. I should have been more suspicious about ATPG's support but i got suspicious of him only after the night phase

Can't believe it is not butter.

Can't believe you are wrong?

[Death is yonder]

Nah, its okay. Its my problem too, well, I'm content with the knowledge that at least I tried, albeit with no results. Should have been suspicious when ATPG agreed with my assessments of the situation with not much personal input.



It was a good game, and at the very least a learning experience.

ATPG is soo manipulative...

Like I said, sounds genuine, yet with a certain subtle manipulative behavior.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Hello Death is yonder. Would you like to have some tea with me, please. Come, sit; enjoy the tea. I have taught you well, yes... you know what sort of signs to look for in mafia. You see how you can build a case on someone and lead to their downfall. That is all well and good, but remember that you can build a case against anyone... this is how the spider catches the fly. He spins a web of deception, yes... it is a powerful offensive weapon. Ah, but for the flies to catch a spider, yes, this is very difficult. I have caught many flies in my time, and many spiders. This time, you have been trapped by my web. Do not fret... it happens to the best of us.

Are you enjoying your tea?

The poisons should be taking effect by now. Just relax and let it come. Wait, where are you going? It is too late, there is no antidote. You might as well sit down and stop fidgeting, no doctor can help you now. You may just as well enjoy the last few moments. Ah, here it is... I ordered us a pizza in celebration. Thank you, sir delivery man, here have a tip... *gives five dollars* now leave us in peace. Come, Death is yonder, it is my favorite... pepperoni. I'll just set the box on top of this pile of dead bodies. Now, you shall enjoy the flavor of the fatal slice, no? Ha ha ha... ah. Yes, taste the cheese... taste the tomatoes... taste the crust and the spices.... it is so very good. And now, taste the fatal slice.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Askthepizzaguy stands up, and draws his Nodachi sword. With one swift stroke, he severs Death is yonder in half, from one hip to the other hip. Death is yonder falls over, into the pile of dead bodies, with a final groan. "There was no poison in the tea...." With a slight chuckle, Askthepizzaguy adds; "but death was indeed yonder." Then the Yakuza master grabs a can of gasoline and begins to pour it all over the pile of bodies, until every last drop one of them was soaked in the potent fluid. Then he stands and lights a victory cigar... and enjoys it while he watches his partner finish this wretched mass of aliens off.

[Death is yonder]

That is all well and good, but remember that you can build a case against anyone... this is how the spider catches the fly. He spins a web of deception, yes... it is a powerful offensive weapon. Ah, but for the flies to catch a spider, yes, this is very difficult. I have caught many flies in my time, and many spiders. This time, you have been trapped by my web. Do not fret... it happens to the best of us.

Oh the webs we weave, when we set out to deceive.

"There was no poison in the tea...." With a slight chuckle, Askthepizzaguy adds; "but death was indeed yonder."

You couldn't resist could you?

Death is yonder sits still, cross legged upon the pagoda on top of the mountain. Death was coming, he was sure of it, a terrible plague that swept across the land. The townies around had asked why he was not fretting, as serene he was in reaction to the panic ensuing in the area. The response was simple, "The inevitable, is nothing to be afraid of". The tea, would be bittersweet, and he would drink deeply, an ode to the dead.

The master proves himself the superior, and the padawan beaten back, ruefully aware with much he has to learn.

Good game,


I await my death peacefully, for if death is to be yonder, then it will come when the heart and mind are in peace.

[Thermal]

Long case, I just re-read and figured something that I wish I had seen earlier

In Spoilers:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This round, voted Atheotes because he seemed like instead of moving on and carrying on discussion like a good townie, he consistently brought the topic back to Beskar, who he knew consistently gunned for him, and would probably never cease once he started, and he took advantage of it. This though, is not the main point, until this round, I didn't really suspect Atheotes or TM, but since I'm in the opinion that Atheotes is the mafia, it makes lots of sense that TM is too in retrospect, and this round, TM's been acting quite scummy, a drastic change in behavior.



You know Beskar, he guns for Atheotes anyway, why so overprotective? Looked to me in retrospect now like you were looking for an easy target, alongside Atheotes.



Loath am I to admit it, Beskar actually probably is right here. After all the times, it makes sense this game.



Sounds like a mafia buddy in panic mode, underlined sections are the eyebrow raising ones. A few votes is hardly a bandwagon, a few drops in a puddle. Sounds a bit desperate to discredit Beskar because you know he will gun for Atheotes all game long.




Second paragraph, contradicting his previous post to discredit Beskar,

Fourth paragraph, the right thing to do would have been to just ignore, let it pass, and concentrate on the discussion properly.

5th Paragraph talking to Split, Townies are suppose to save themselves, no matter what, you always know that anyone else could be the mafia and that your innocent.

6th Paragraph, you aren't a big suspect, only Beskar considered you one, why are you overreacting? In hindsight, this only exemplifies itself more prominently in the later rounds.

7th Paragraph, tempting the WIFOM...

Last paragraph, very bad townie behavior, its not very helpful.



Why the self doubt? Sounds over self explanatory too, like a mafia trying not to be suspicious. Although admittedly I do this at times as a townie too



The thing that's making me suspect the both of you? This nagging feeling? You've been detracting discussion and instead of heading back and ignoring Beskar, you've drawn the attention to him and constantly try to play the sympathy card to make people try and vote him to get a free death out of him, so you don't have to kill him, although evidently later you killed him for the WIFOM and because this idea wasn't turning out to be fruitful.



Again, why with all the self doubt? You sound like a mafia trying to play a "scared townie" card.



WIFOM, more and more. Not helping your case



Why more WIFOM and the self pity cards? And the self contradiction at the end of the post?



You seem like a mafia popping in to avoid being called a lurker, and then fading into the shadows, although prominently your around in times when Atheotes is on the line to the noose.

Trying to play the helpful townie trying to find more helpful townies, you said I was doing something scummy, being called a lurker then popping in, then you said I wasn't screaming scum to you anymore?

Then you say your suspicious of pretty much everyone equally? That means nobody is suspicious? Stop digging your own hole, please Your not helping your own case



Even as mafia, one must endear oneself to several active townies who might go with you and save your behind, to supplement the voting power.

I cautiously note that myself, Atheotes and ATPG are on the low of your list... maybe because we're more predictable? Or maybe because we believed Atheotes...



You dig your hole deeper and deeper, how deep do you want it to go...







Don't want to be involved in... controversy perhaps? Again... your posts really beg some looking into



No self initiative, afraid to receive flak for bad decisions, indecisive mafia.



Posted by AVSM.



Response. Indeed, why?



Follow yours?

In conclusion for those who really hated the long walls of quotes and texts, I think that TM is a nervous mafia, he seemed genuinely trying to aid in discussion for the first few rounds, but lately, he screams WIFOMing mafia and nervous mafia trying to save his buddy. I've noted that he's usually only active when Atheotes is being actively accused, and he's been very indecisive and going with the flow of the town.

The whole game, Atheotes generally stayed his part of the discussion centered on the injustice of it all when Beskar keeps metagaming him, so to speak.

TM on the other hand, tried to distance himself from Atheotes after the early rounds whereupon they were picked up on by Beskar. He sounds like the mafia who isn't willing to risk being called out on something, and letting others make their own choices before he follows.

Next round, we need to vote for ThermalMercury and seal the deal, of course this is assuming Atheotes is the mafia, which I think he is. If these two people aren't mafia, then they are very, very, bad townies.

At first he seemed fine, but upon closer investigation and re-reading, TM's post comes off to me as very scummy, and I think it would warrant a lynch. He has been spewing WIFOM all game long, perhaps its time to call his bluff.

Taking the risk of saying this even before Atheotes's lynch results come back, I think that Atheotes and Thermal are the mafia, and that next round we need to lynch TM.



No matter who dies tonight, every townie SHOULD vote for Thermal Mercury.

Despite you being flat on your face wrong I will still answer these investigations of yours.

Firstly, I brought the topic back to Beskar because if you read his first few posts they were unbelievely scummy, voting for someone because they are usually mafia (and he wasn't either shock horror) is a bad tactic so why shouldn't I defend a player who was getting a pile of votes for pretty much no reason game related?

Furthermore, I don't know beskar, I have no clue whether he usually guns of at athelotes, so why on earth assume I know this?

Next you claim I sound like a mafia buddy in panic, when really I replied quite boldly because I was outraged that Beskar blamed centurions death on me when he was the one who decided to kill him, athelote was merely the object beskar was arging over which is why I responded with athelotes as an example of beskars scummy behavior.

You say I contradict myself many times but I don't see the contradictions at all, I even said in one of my posts I thought beskar a townie too, even if a scummy one and didnt always vote for beskar so its hardly like I had it in for him entirely. Furthermore I said i'd vote for myself if the votes were still at a draw when I next came on (which shows you weren't convinced either way), picking out the pieces of text YOU want to can give an incredibly bias view DiY.

You say if I was townie I would ignore many things, well sorry if as a good townie I like to question peoples motives, why not challenge people at every point, why not try to catch them out, conversation can't harm, silence can though. About the townies should always save themselves, well when I used to play Townies weren't supposed to be afraid to die, sometimes if your desperate to prevent it, it comes off more scummy in the process.

I don't care about all this Wine In front of me lark, I happily offered to die early on (when it couldn't of done too much harm) when I say something I mean it, however you didn't want me lynched and so I said later on, killing me could result in a townie loss as I'm not going to offer to die when the mafia almost square up to the town for numbers. I had no self doubt but simply felt happy to give you the choice to kill me or leave me, self doubt? I think not, if I had self doubt I wouldn't make gutsy posts like that in the first place.


Now, even if some of your other posts were valid this one IS preposterous, LURKING? I have more posts than you my friend, I posted consistently, roughly form 5pm-midnight GMT, here and there daily, my posting times were consistant and just because Athelotes may have been at a simliar time you take what is (barely coincidental, its not unlikely for it to happen) I posted steady throughout the game, if I posted when athelotes was being attacked then you must have permanently mauled him if that is the case, I even voted for him when he already had a lot of votes, but It was YOU GUYS THAT CHANGED YOUR VOTES, and look where it got you, I was just being a fair player, voting sensibly in my position, but In your eyes everything I did was suspicious, bias at all? You point out pretty much all my posts, you just wanted to see things and perhaps ATPG only agreed with you at all is because he is mafia.

DiY, I said you didn't seem suspicious anymore because you changed your vote from atpg to avsm, as at the time you just did what the person in front of you did even though there was no evidence. I also said I thought everyone was suspicious as a way of saying it really could be anyone, perhaps not shockingly helpful but certainly not material for you to get your claws into.


The reason I lacked self-initative for AVSM is because he asked a question I'm either guilty or you are, so too speak, he never answered it so I asked him for an answer, maybe you should consider what I say compared to other players posts. And how in anyway does me saying follow your instincts involve me? Now your twisting my words.

I'm sure DiY, from what few posts you have (you must be a lurker if I am! ) I could pick up many criticisms with your posts if I wanted too because few posts are actually perfect. But what I did get more or less right is my suspicion of split (I voted for him last round) as well as ATPG, I may of defended Athelotes, but you never gave a second glance to split or ATPG, how can writing an unproved innocent off achieve anything?

I didn't try to distance myself from athelotes, I played a good townie game, posting regulary and contribuating where I could, so I very much dislike you calling me a very very bad townie, I probably wouldn't of even ranted so bad if not for that comment!

You misjudged everything, Beskar mis judged everything, ATPG got an easy ride (and split I think?)

[Thermal]

Glad I got that out, good game and another good point, I don't hold grudges

[atheotes]

I agree with most of your general points... i just wish the town had talked about other theories.

and to be fair to DIY, i think he made his case against you after he was convinced i was mafia.

[Sprig]

I never did anything scummy and you all lynched me :*( I'm not alive in any of my mafia games now!

[Thermal]

On reflection my post does seem very harsh, this is only a game, and rest assured DiY I like you as a player and person, but I get very worked up when in mafia games.

And I didn't lynch you sprig! (i don't think) though to be fair I didn't have any reason to not vote for you but more luck...

[Beskar]

Just a few comments.

Firstly, I brought the topic back to Beskar because if you read his first few posts they were unbelievely scummy

They weren't, as Mafia never go high profile. As we saw this game, they never did. So it is a fallacy to even think that. The reason they never go high profile is because high profile always get killed. (que: ATPG and Split were not high profile. I was, but people wanted me lynched because I was and you accused me of being scummy when I wasn't. See?)

voting for someone because they are usually mafia (and he wasn't either shock horror) is a bad tactic so why shouldn't I defend a player who was getting a pile of votes for pretty much no reason game related?

It is called the first round, no one knows anyone except for the Mafia. It is also the first time I ever first round voted him, and he has first round voted me on many occasions and once had a little vendetta spree. (everytime he was killed by the mafia, he would say I did it ). atheotes is always quiet and lurks, so I did it to get him talking. Anyway, instead of reading it for what it was, an obvious provoking, you jumped in to defend your scum buddy, aka, only reason you would protect some one is because you know they are on your side. There is a difference to a question of it, and to a outright defend and that difference is townie and mafia. Unfortunately, you were doing the Mafia moves as a townie.

End of the day, would it have made any difference if all I wrote was: "Vote: atheotes , random.org" if anything, I am just using a random statistic for my choice, opposed to trying to pressure some one which is far more benefitical.

Next you claim I sound like a mafia buddy in panic, when really I replied quite boldly because I was outraged that Beskar blamed centurions death on me when he was the one who decided to kill him, athelote was merely the object beskar was arging over which is why I responded with athelotes as an example of beskars scummy behavior.

As Andres pointed out, that was the reason I changed to Centurion1.(the % increase) It is quite amusing that Andres got it bang on about Askthepizzaguy though, ROFL. However, the fact is, you made the situation far worse for atheotes (and he didn't do himself much credit) because you handled it as his protector, his partner, his mafia buddy. You were completely over-defensive and this contributes significantly against the town, as they are reading your actions as "why is he protecting him like that? He must obviously be his Mafia-buddy (sic)".

Provoking people for a reaction is not a scummy tactic, it is a scum finding tactic with a high risk of getting lynched (because people seem to think it is scummy). Read the beginning of Riftwar with Sasaki and White_Eyes:D, he got White_Eyes:d to fully reveal via provoking him and putting pressure on him with votes, etc. It is a tactic to get people to reveal, and what tends to happen, you have a couple of people when Mafia just fade in the background trying to "hide from the finger of susipicion", atheotes does this a lot. It is because of this, it works quite often for him, he can go through the game as a mafia in the background.

why not challenge people at every point, why not try to catch them out, conversation can't harm, silence can though.

No no No! Don't challenge people at every point, it is a very bad thing in Mafia and it is what Mafia do. Challenging people just confuses people, and people go off randomly and clueless, which makes them do less attention to the important things. Look at Sigurd in Koopa game, look at others such as YLC (who is number 1) for doing this. People who challenge are the Mafia. There is a difference between doing what is best for the town, and just hounding people. Unfortunately, you strayed in the later in multiple games and each time it has hurt the town. For incidence, Koopa, because of your actions, I most likely never got a protection and died because of it. Why? because you kept sowing seeds of susipicion in the town, when I was obviously revealing a Mafia and was working with the town. Because of challenging people, the ones who should get lynched, can often don't. Luckily people went along with the Sigurd incident, but there are times that it hasn't happened, and with the mafia challenging at every point, with the townie and dead player too. The mafia lives and a townie dies instead

The thing is, by challenging people, all you do is exposing that they are not 100% certain, or even that they know for sure the target is a mafia or not. The fact is, outside of detective reveals, there isn't that 100% certainity and because of that, the Mafia walk free. This is why the Mafia challenge anyone against them, because if they can play "the victim" or the "false reveal" they survive to strike again.

About the townies should always save themselves, well when I used to play Townies weren't supposed to be afraid to die, sometimes if your desperate to prevent it, it comes off more scummy in the process

And if all the townies did that, good game Mafia. Though in some cases, it is probably best for a townie to die, because they are being a bad townie. Seriously, never say "oh i could save myself, oh well, I did, tra la la" = Mafia trying to look innocent. The Mafia would never do anything reckless, because the simple fact is, even if you try to WIFOM it, the result is always the same, that person will get lynched.

There is also a difference, a first round save isn't scummy. Everyone in this game would have saved themselves at that point, because nothing was certain to a realistic degree. The second round, with atheotes patterns and actions, made him a credible lynch. What made it worse, was because he danced around the fence going "tra la la, oh, i am a poor victim, should i save myself or not? la la" then he saves himself. it is far less scummy to go "well, I am not the mafia, sorry Sprig." then do what he did.

On the plus side, it really flagged split more on the radar, as I pointed out. He says about being "his ally" which he also did to me, and was encourging any issue there. (scum tactic)

You misjudged everything, Beskar mis judged everything, ATPG got an easy ride (and split I think?)

I didn't misjudge everything. I called Splitpersonality two rounds ago. Also when I died, I called Split and I am betting Split is the mafia.

If atheotes died or if I didn't die, I was going for split. Unfortunately, ATPG knew this and purposely killed me because he knew very well that I thought split was scummy and he knew the mafia wouldn't kill me, unless it was atheotes. If atheotes died and I got night killed, it was because of my suipicions on Splitpersonality, which would have lead me right back to ATPG. So ultimately.. yeah

Because of this, I know ATPG is the other mafia for certain. :shurg: Not really misjudgement. I am taking bets now, I am saying it is ATPG and Split (which hasn't been revealed in game or by them in private).

Death is Yonder is calling Split and Thermal Mercury.

Any other bets?

[Beskar]

I never did anything scummy and you all lynched me :*( I'm not alive in any of my mafia games now!

If it means anything, I didn't think you was mafia at any point and I was annoyed at you dying, because you actually looked innocent.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Relax, gentlemen! You were all in the same boat, none of you had any leads, it was a basic game.

I got smoked really good in Chicago Soiree by a couple of lurkers, and have had a vendetta against all lurkers ever since. Sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you. We all make mistakes, bad assumptions, and lousy guesses. In fact some of the so-called great players here have had really poor games. I seem to recall some townies lynching a guy recently who could defend two, investigate two.... nevermind I'll drop it. But the point is, don't think less of your fellow players for being wrong, thank them for trying. I know a certain player I play with often is dead wrong about me almost every time, but I still don't think he's a bad player.

Better to have players that try than ones that don't bother to vote.

On an amusing side note, this just adds to my streak that whenever I am townie I get lynched because I'm always so suspicious, but when I am mafia I don't... it's actually quite ironic. Don't try to reverse it, it's the Pizzaguy curse.

[Thermal]

Replies in the quote:

Just a few comments.


They weren't, as Mafia never go high profile. As we saw this game, they never did. So it is a fallacy to even think that. The reason they never go high profile is because high profile always get killed. (que: ATPG and Split were not high profile. I was, but people wanted me lynched because I was and you accused me of being scummy when I wasn't. See?)

If mafia are never high profile, why did you think I looked like a mafia was being high profile myself on many occasions? Questioning people is high profile, so you contradict yourself (just as DiY said I did, though I never saw it)

It is called the first round, no one knows anyone except for the Mafia. It is also the first time I ever first round voted him, and he has first round voted me on many occasions and once had a little vendetta spree. (everytime he was killed by the mafia, he would say I did it ). atheotes is always quiet and lurks, so I did it to get him talking. Anyway, instead of reading it for what it was, an obvious provoking, you jumped in to defend your scum buddy, aka, only reason you would protect some one is because you know they are on your side. There is a difference to a question of it, and to a oturight defend and that difference is townie and mafia. Unfortunately, you were doing the Mafia moves as a townie.

Well you never said ANY of this at the time, had you of explained your actions more I would have reasoned, instead it seems like you've just thought of why you did it now and thought you tell me after we've already lost. Furthermore I was hardly attached to him, I defended him to a certain degree because I didn't like what I see (I wrote that because it rhymed ) You over exaggerated how protective of him I was given that I voted for him the round after.

End of the day, would ahve made a difference is I wrote "Vote: atheotes , random.org" if anything, I am just using a random statistic for my choice, opposed to trying to pressure some one which is far more benefitical.

Yes well random & Intentional make a difference, maybe a white lie would have avoided the conflict, though still slightly suspicious as you vote like the first person did (I emphasize SLIGHTLY suspicious)


As Andres pointed out, that was the reason I changed to Centurion1.(the % increase) It is quite amusing that Andres got it bang on about Askthepizzaguy though, ROFL. However, the fact is, you made the situation far worse for atheotes (and he didn't do himself much credit) because you handled it as his protector, his partner, his mafia buddy. You were completely over-defensive and this contributes significantly against the town, as they are reading your actions as "why is he protecting him like that? He must obviously be his Mafia-buddy (sic)".

If protecting someone is so blatently mafia scum all over, then as a mafia why would I be so predictable as to do it? I assure you I would have defended anyone in that situation to a certain degree, athelotes was no exception in my logic.

Provoking people for a reaction is not a scummy tactic,

yet, when I say questioning & provoking people is good you say it is scummy, make your mind up Beskar

it is a scum finding tactic with a high risk of getting lynched (because people seem to think it is scummy). Read the beginning of Riftwar with Sasaki and White_Eyes:D, he got White_Eyes:d to fully reveal via provoking him and putting pressure on him with votes, etc. It is a tactic to get people to reveal, and what tends to happen, you have a couple of people when Mafia just fade in the background trying to "hide from the finger of susipicion", atheotes does this a lot. It is because of this, it works quite often for him, he can go through the game as a mafia in the background.




No no No! Don't challenge people at every point, it is a very bad thing in Mafia and it is what Mafia do.

If mafia always keep a low profile why would they do this? And why are you such a mafia expert all of a sudden?

Challenging people just confuses people, and people go off randomly and clueless, which makes them do less attention to the important things. Look at Sigurd in Koopa game, look at others such as YLC (who is number 1) for doing this. People who challenge are the Mafia.

Sigurd didn't challenge, you revealed him as mafia and he blamed everyone for voting for him, which is much more your style as you FoS anyone that votes for you, generally.

There is a difference between doing what is best for the town, and just hounding people.

If they are proven innocent maybe so, but in smaller games there little to go on, so conversation is useful when clues aren't around.

Unfortunately, you strayed in the later in multiple games and each time it has hurt the town. For incidence, Koopa, because of your actions, I most likely never got a protection and died because of it. Why? because you kept sowing seeds of susipicion in the town, when I was obviously revealing a Mafia and was working with the town.

chances of dying are slim, I was unfamliar with protector role I admit, without that role I still agree it is stupid to reveal after 1 investigation, poker for example, if you don't bet high you don't win high, similiarly if you don't risk dying, you don't get enough information to possibly over throw the mafia completely.

Because of challenging people, the ones who should get lynched, can often don't.

In this game there was no definete lynch candidate, though those that should have been lycnhed couldnt have been further away from your mind, in koopa game I said we should still lynch sigurd and believe you, but also meantioned pre cautions too, I didn't sway votes at all as I agreed with you, whilst also trying not to believe you entirely until proven to be correct, its mafia not a game where its compulsory for you to be telling the truth" Once you were proven correct I even encouraged Double A too give his role to you saying 'its probably the best chance you have' so Your wrong there.

Luckily people went along with the Sigurd incident, but there are times that it hasn't happened, and with the mafia challenging at every point, with the townie and dead player too. The mafia lives and a townie dies instead

I repeat I agreed with the sigurd decision, but if you had been (or still are) underhanded in that game, things are much different, open mindedness is better than closed imo

The thing is, by challenging people, all you do is exposing that they are not 100% certain, or even that they know for sure the target is a mafia or not. The fact is, outside of detective reveals, there isn't that 100% certainity and because of that, the Mafia walk free. This is why the Mafia challenge anyone against them, because if they can play "the victim" or the "false reveal" they survive to strike again.



And if all the townies did that, good game Mafia.

I know when given the choice knowing your a townie, you should vote to help yourself but in a game like koopa you can be killing a good role, one much better than your own, which is probably just as likely as a mafia role, even if this logic doesnt apply in a simple mafia such as this.

Though in some cases, it is probably best for a townie to die, because they are being a bad townie. Seriously, never say "oh i could save myself, oh well, I did, tra la la" = Mafia trying to look innocent. The Mafia would never do anything reckless, because the simple fact is, even if you try to WIFOM it, the result is always the same, that person will get lynched.

Many occasions where this type of voting has lead to a change in votes

There is also a difference, a first round save isn't scummy. Everyone in this game would have saved themselves at that point, because nothing was certain to a realistic degree. The second round, with atheotes patterns and actions, made him a credible lynch. What made it worse, was because he danced around the fence going "tra la la, oh, i am a poor victim, should i save myself or not? la la" then he saves himself. it is far less scummy to go "well, I am not the mafia, sorry Sprig." then do what he did.

I voted atheolotes here anyway (or was it day 3) either way, athelotes was innocent and the people you didnt suspect were mafia, so whether your mafia tactics are normal or not, maybe you should revise them as they completely failed.


On the plus side, it really flagged split more on the radar, as I pointed out. He says about being "his ally" which he also did to me, and was encourging any issue there. (scum tactic)

ok then....

I didn't misjudge everything. I called Splitpersonality two rounds ago. Also when I died, I called Split and I am betting Split is the mafia.

even though you practically forced everyone to vote for athelotes or you would laugh at them WHEN (not if, in your eyes) he was revealed as mafia, you blatently didnt want split or ATPG to die, you just wanted atholetes dead, your vendetta against him lasted far long then my defense of him did.

If atheotes died or if I didn't die, I was going for split. Unfortunately, ATPG knew this and purposely killed me because he knew very well that I thought split was scummy and he knew the mafia wouldn't kill me, unless it was atheotes.

So you played into the mafias hands which doesn't seem all such a good townie tactic after all.

Because of this, I know ATPG is the other mafia for certain. :shurg: Not really misjudgement. I am taking bets now, I am saying it is ATPG and Split (which hasn't been revealed in game or by them in private).

Well it doesnt take a rocket scientist, despite it being a slim change of AVSM or me (you can guess its not me)

Death is Yonder is calling Split and Thermal Mercury.

Or ATPG apprently, very precised of him...

Any other bets?

[Thermal]

Relax, gentlemen! You were all in the same boat, none of you had any leads, it was a basic game.

I got smoked really good in Chicago Soiree by a couple of lurkers, and have had a vendetta against all lurkers ever since. Sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you. We all make mistakes, bad assumptions, and lousy guesses. In fact some of the so-called great players here have had really poor games. I seem to recall some townies lynching a guy recently who could defend two, investigate two.... nevermind I'll drop it. But the point is, don't think less of your fellow players for being wrong, thank them for trying. I know a certain player I play with often is dead wrong about me almost every time, but I still don't think he's a bad player.

Better to have players that try than ones that don't bother to vote.

On an amusing side note, this just adds to my streak that whenever I am townie I get lynched because I'm always so suspicious, but when I am mafia I don't... it's actually quite ironic. Don't try to reverse it, it's the Pizzaguy curse.

Too late to bring my post back I'm afriad, I don't think less of anyone, I just like a good argument

[Askthepizzaguy]

All right. I just hope no one is sore.

Remember, sometimes bad things happen. But each game is a new game, and someone who screwed you over or made a mistake in one game might save your butt in another. I've been part of some unlikely alliances recently.

[Thermal]

All right. I just hope no one is sore.

Remember, sometimes bad things happen. But each game is a new game, and someone who screwed you over or made a mistake in one game might save your butt in another. I've been part of some unlikely alliances recently.

Yes, I now dread being wrong in future games for the turn around beskar & DiY will get on me

[Askthepizzaguy]

Also think about team cohesiveness. Like football players who must shrug off a loss and forget about it, so they can perform well together in future games. Never let failures of the past cause failures in the present. Now, master Pizzaguy goes to catch flies with chopsticks.

I still think that "chinese" smiley face could probably be offensive. That would be like an American smiley face that shows a redneck with a beer, looking retarded...

[Thermal]

Also think about team cohesiveness. Like football players who must shrug off a loss and forget about it, so they can perform well together in future games. Never let failures of the past cause failures in the present. Now, master Pizzaguy goes to catch flies with chopsticks.

I still think that "chinese" smiley face could probably be offensive. That would be like an American smiley face that shows a redneck with a beer, looking retarded...

Your probably saying this so we don't start pinning you to mafia in future games, well I don't do that anyway, but still

[Askthepizzaguy]

Your probably saying this so we don't start pinning you to mafia in future games, well I don't do that anyway, but still

Well, can't help that. You will; there will be anti-pizzaguy backlash for being mafia or evil twice in a row. And you'll lynch me and be wrong, and then when I am mafia, you'll let me live again. It's a vicious circle.

[Thermal]

Well, can't help that. You will; there will be anti-pizzaguy backlash for being mafia or evil twice in a row. And you'll lynch me and be wrong, and then when I am mafia, you'll let me live again. It's a vicious circle.

It sounds like you always hinder town ATPG, maybe you need to be...removed....








I never quite pull funny off anymore, but more 'I'm going to kill you'

[Askthepizzaguy]

It sounds like you always hinder town ATPG, maybe you need to be...removed....

Actually I usually help out.

I told you guys that Split was suspicious and atheotes was a townie, but you didn't listen. And if I start getting into what I've done in the past, as a townie... we'll be here all day.

[atheotes]

It is called the first round, no one knows anyone except for the Mafia. It is also the first time I ever first round voted him, and he has first round voted me on many occasions and once had a little vendetta spree. (everytime he was killed by the mafia, he would say I did it ). atheotes is always quiet and lurks, so I did it to get him talking.

the vendetta spree you talked about is one game - Mafia Mongolica - where i accused you of being my killer. but i was wrong you were not. you were the other mafia.
I agree with "atheotes is always quiet and lurks". Some people dont post as much as others. Not everyone has the same play style. By all standards i am someone who lurks always - as townie or mafia. Occasionally i might post more depending on the time i have and how much i understand the game setting.
I am not sure if this is the first time if you have ever first round voted for me. But you often use "atheotes is mafia" reason to vote for me. you did that even in the other small that is running now - The Red Phoenix.

Provoking people for a reaction is not a scummy tactic, it is a scum finding tactic with a high risk of getting lynched (because people seem to think it is scummy). Read the beginning of Riftwar with Sasaki and White_Eyes:D, he got White_Eyes:d to fully reveal via provoking him and putting pressure on him with votes, etc. It is a tactic to get people to reveal, and what tends to happen, you have a couple of people when Mafia just fade in the background trying to "hide from the finger of susipicion", atheotes does this a lot. It is because of this, it works quite often for him, he can go through the game as a mafia in the background.

I am always quiet by most people's standards. In the other current game- The Koopa Troop - i havent posted much but that doesnt mean i am mafia. you probably know that.

And if all the townies did that, good game Mafia. Though in some cases, it is probably best for a townie to die, because they are being a bad townie. Seriously, never say "oh i could save myself, oh well, I did, tra la la" = Mafia trying to look innocent. The Mafia would never do anything reckless, because the simple fact is, even if you try to WIFOM it, the result is always the same, that person will get lynched.
There is also a difference, a first round save isn't scummy. Everyone in this game would have saved themselves at that point, because nothing was certain to a realistic degree. The second round, with atheotes patterns and actions, made him a credible lynch. What made it worse, was because he danced around the fence going "tra la la, oh, i am a poor victim, should i save myself or not? la la" then he saves himself. it is far less scummy to go "well, I am not the mafia, sorry Sprig." then do what he did.

In your eyes saving yourself on the first round is not scummy...it may not be the same for everyone. To me it doesnt make a difference whether it is the first round or the last round. Saving oneself alone is not enough to condemn someone.
i was undecided because you were relentless in your pursuit. I was just weighing up my options. as a townie - you can say "i know i am a townie" and save yourself or i should not be afraid to die for the town. Both of them are possible! I left myself open to be lynched and it did not happen for 1 hour.

On the plus side, it really flagged split more on the radar, as I pointed out. He says about being "his ally" which he also did to me, and was encourging any issue there. (scum tactic)
I didn't misjudge everything. I called Splitpersonality two rounds ago. Also when I died, I called Split and I am betting Split is the mafia.

If atheotes died or if I didn't die, I was going for split. Unfortunately, ATPG knew this and purposely killed me because he knew very well that I thought split was scummy and he knew the mafia wouldn't kill me, unless it was atheotes. If atheotes died and I got night killed, it was because of my suipicions on Splitpersonality, which would have lead me right back to ATPG. So ultimately.. yeah

Because of this, I know ATPG is the other mafia for certain. :shurg: Not really misjudgement. I am taking bets now, I am saying it is ATPG and Split (which hasn't been revealed in game or by them in private).

Death is Yonder is calling Split and Thermal Mercury.

Any other bets?

When you died you were calling for my death loud and clear. there didnt seem to be any doubts in your mind. Due to the fact that you revealed to ATPG, you should have thought about the possibility of him being mafia. unfortuanately you did not. On the contrary i was the one who brought up that theory.
I dont mean any offense...i am just stating my thoughts. Sorry if i have misspoken

my bets are on ATPG and AVSM... the same as what i told last phase.

[slashandburn]

Edit :Ignore

[Beskar]

I called you and Split as the Mafia on my death. That is correct. On you being innocent, I called ATPG. :p

As for your post reply, TM, in short, there is a bunch of big errors, incorrect things and inflamary statements, but I don't actually care enough to argue about it (and probably for the best too).

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh be nice.

You guys are both excellent players, you just got under each other's skin that's all. Probably unintentionally. Walk it off, shake hands, forget about it. It's a shame to see two players I like and admire being a little catty towards each other.

Good sport and all, let's drop it now before anyone's feelings get hurt eh?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Also, I'm not really mafia. It turns out that I was just pulling your leg. I was told by the two mafiosi to go along with it and I did.