Switzerland About To Vote On Minaret Ban

[Strike For The South]

Clearly those posters imply the want to kleep Switzerland archeticture intact.

After seeing those and the minaret itself I'm now convinced that this is just about teh browns.

Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. If the GOP came out with those posters it would be a death kneel.

How can they get away with such blatant racism and still have the referendum pass? I realize they are a fringe party but they were cleary strong enough to get this passed.

Switzerland has prided itself as being a European metling pot but I guess that only counts if you're a little bit pink

[rory_20_uk]

This muslim disagrees with you

[Strike For The South]

This muslim disagrees with you

Uncle Tom=Uncle Mohhamed?

I just think it's funny how blatant racism doesn't bother a majority of the Swiss. They are banning part of a building simply because it represents the muslims and they need to stop that why? It looks the same as the rest of the buildings, it's not hurting anyone, It's on a holy site.

It seems like the Swiss are scared the Muslims can't assimalate on there own.

You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Uncle Tom=Uncle Mohhamed?

I just think it's funny how blatant racism doesn't bother a majority of the Swiss. They are banning part of a building simply because it represents the muslims and they need to stop that why? It looks the same as the rest of the buildings, it's not hurting anyone, It's on a holy site.

It seems like the Swiss are scared the Muslims can't assimalate on there own.

You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig

How is this Racism? It's not like Christianity is a "white" religion.

[Strike For The South]

How is this Racism? It's not like Christianity is a "white" religion.

Not so sure, they probably would have voted against anything Islam, I think they just send out a warning to the multicultists in their government, it's a pity this battle is fought over the back of the muslims but it has to happen regardless, the multicultural left just needs to go.

Do you two not see the bloody posters?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Do you two not see the bloody posters?

I do, and at least one of the guy's grabbing the work permits is white, two of the otherse could be Greek/Italian.

[Strike For The South]

I do, and at least one of the guy's grabbing the work permits is white, two of the otherse could be Greek/Italian.

The fact you choose the least conterversial and still have to preface it is rather telling.

There are 4 minarets in the entire country, this only serves to embolden radicals.

I must say I truly am disgusted in the lengths allot of you are willing to go to make this blantantly racist campaign ok in your heads.

You lot are better than this.

[Viking]

I do, and at least one of the guy's grabbing the work permits is white, two of the otherse could be Greek/Italian.

Racism is not unknown between 'whites'.

[Fragony]

Do you two not see the bloody posters?

This is certainly edgy, it goes a lot further than I would ever be willing to go and I do not agree with this, but I am going to give it some latitude because I don't think it is what it seems to be, people think in symbols I have yet to figure out what they really voted against, is it a minaret or should we put this in a broader perspective.

[Strike For The South]

The posters aren't relevant to the issue. Just because some of the people opposing minarets are massively racist doesn't mean even a small minority of the rest of the Swiss are.

I agree with Loius, though I would be surprised if the population percentage is as high as he suspects.

They are extremely releavant to the issue. They are being pushed by the same party whom came up with the legislation. They are all over Switzerland.

This is certainly edgy, it goes a lot further than I would ever be willing to go and I do not agree with this, but I am going to give it some latitude because I don't think it is what it seems to be, people think in symbols I have yet to figure out what they really voted against, is it a minaret or should we put this in a broader perspective.

Is edgy dutch for racist?

[Louis VI the Fat]

I realize they are a fringe party but they were cleary strong enough to get this passed.

The UDC/SVP is the largest political party in Switzerland.

Far right is the second or third largest political current in most European countries. Things are now said openly in European politics that were solid taboos, only thought in private, a mere decade ago.



The far right seldom poses an outright threat to democracy. But there is a more insidous mechanism, one that many clever far right politicians are very well aware off: the trickling down of far right ideas into mainstream discourse. Call it the 'Panzerjager strategy'. You take an extremity and shout it so loudly and intermittently, that what people perceive to be the moderate centre is shifted firmly to the right.

It is a dastardly clever strategy. Return the shouting, and you have just turned mainstream politics into a populist shouting contest. Repose with reason, and nobody will hear you over the shouting. Do not engage in the 'debate' at all, and you will be accused of being elitist. Very clever, and very difficult to overcome.


Peculiarly, there exists a rock-solid means of destroying far right parties: give them governmental responsibility. This has killed off many a populist party, because 1) the electorate soon is forever put off by their usual display of sheer ineptitude, in-fighting and stupidity, 2) their own voters discover that there didn't exist after all a magical wand that will solve all problems if only the out-of-touch elites would listen to the people.

Far right populism in Western Europe is anti-immigrantion, anti-minorities. The brew further consists of more 'mainstream' policies like anti-establishment/elites, lowering taxes - paid for by abolishing wasteful government, 'neo-liberalism', anti-EU, etc.

Eastern European far right is different. The Economist has a good article:

The far right in central Europe differs from its western equivalents in its choice of enemies. In the west it thrives on immigrant-bashing. In the east it dwells on more atavistic grievances: ethnic minorities, old territorial disputes, homosexuals, international financiers and, naturally, Jews. Hatred of the Roma has become a defining issue. Everywhere economic anxiety is exploited. Even a decade of growth has left plenty of poor and disaffected people. Many hark back to an era when the state protected them from crude market forces. This produces a far right that likes nationalisation and dislikes the market.
http://www.economist.com/world/europ...ry_id=14859369

Both kinds of far right have been known to confuse Americans, who might at first glance mistake it for being related to American mainstream conservatism (East European variant, see: Rumsfeldt's 'New Europe') or libertarianism / Republicanism (West European variant).
(Then again, American politics sometimes really does share elements of the European far right, where similiarities are not merely perceived to exist, but are real. See: 'Family Values' in Poland and the US. Etc.)

[Strike For The South]

I see racists. That's what I see.

How they get there voice heard is of no concern of mine. What is scary is that they are getting out there and people are listening.

[Beskar]

The referendum is a complete joke. It should be about amending the rules and regulations, not on a specific issue such as Minaret's. It shouldn't have even got this far.

[Furunculus]

agreed............................. and yet it did, and lo; the people did speaketh!

[Fragony]

I see racists. That's what I see.

How they get there voice heard is of no concern of mine. What is scary is that they are getting out there and people are listening.

Not so sure, they probably would have voted against anything Islam, I think they just send out a warning to the multicultists in their government, it's a pity this battle is fought over the back of the muslims but it has to happen regardless, the multicultural left just needs to go.

[Furunculus]

stuff...............................[snip]............................

Call it the 'Panzerjager strategy'. You take an extremity and shout it so loudly and intermittently, that what people perceive to be the moderate centre is shifted firmly to the right.

It is a dastardly clever strategy. Return the shouting, and you have just turned mainstream politics into a populist shouting contest. Repose with reason, and nobody will hear you over the shouting. Do not engage in the 'debate' at all, and you will be accused of being elitist. Very clever, and very difficult to overcome.

...............................[snip]...........................stuff

pssst, Louis, that is actually called not have an answer that resonates with the electorate, and is easily dealt with by finding an answer that resonates with that same electorate.

but i do agree with you on the best way to discredit the fringes of politics, let them have power where their incompetance will become manifest, just look at the SNP.

[Samurai Waki]

but i do agree with you on the best way to discredit the fringes of politics, let them have power where their incompetance will become manifest, just look at the SNP.

Or The Neo-Cons in the US.

[CrossLOPER]

Panzerjager strategy...

What happened to him, btw? I would expect him to have plenty to say in a thread such as this.