Switzerland About To Vote On Minaret Ban

[Subotan]

Fantastic.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I call a referendum on Andres.

I vote we ban him.

I don't have a problem with him personally, I just think his avatar does not comply with our traditional game-only avatars.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The only logical explanation is the higher your IQ, the less common sense you have.

I think this is false. There's no reason for people with high IQ to have less common sense than average. They are just prone to the same kind of intuition errors that everybody else is, and so there decision making ability isn't always better. It's only better if they put enough effort in.

For example, a question like:

"Linda is 31, single, and outspoken. In college she cared deeply about political issues such as discrimination and social justice and wrote for the school newspaper.

Which is more probable:

A) Linda is a bank teller
B) Linda is a bank teller and active in the feminist movement"

Can trip up even high IQ people, although if they think it through they will understand it faster (it's obvious if you think about it).


There are some problems where high IQ people would perform consistently better though.


And of course for politics, if you want to believe something is true, you probably won't put a lot of effort into weighing the evidence against it

[Louis VI the Fat]

it's obvious if you think about it

I can't figure out the right answer. Which is it?

I guess I am too intlegillent to work it out myself.

[Beskar]

And of course for politics, if you want to believe something is true, you probably won't put a lot of effort into weighing the evidence against it

or in a mafia game.

Speaking of Mafia games, Asai Nagamasa's picture gave me a great idea for my upcoming Small Mafia game.
(Don't worry Andres, it won't be too bad.)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I can't figure out the right answer. Which is it?

I guess I am too intlegillent to work it out myself.

A.

B includes A, so it can never be more probable than A.

It's an inherent flaw in the way we intuitively solve problems

[Beskar]

You would think B is more likely, then as Sasaki points out, it is "not which is correct" it is "which is more probable". It could be an inherent flaw in misunderstanding the actual question, and you try to pick the most correct one and not the most probable.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I knew the ansewr ! i was just chekking too sea if you lesser pople could fiugre it out to.

[KukriKhan]

I knew the ansewr ! i was just chekking too sea if you lesser pople could fiugre it out to.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

fi yuo cna raed tihs, yuo hvae a sgtrane mnid too

Cna yuo raed tihs? Olny 55 plepoe out of 100 can.

i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!

[Andres]

I call a referendum on Andres.

I vote we ban him.

I don't have a problem with him personally, I just think his avatar does not comply with our traditional game-only avatars.

*** deploys instagib rocket stockpile ***

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Similar story to the initial article:

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/ne...201/309031/P0/

Medal of Honor winner, 90, ordered to remove flagpole

Col. Van T. Barfoot, a local Medal of Honor winner, is under the gun from his Henrico County community's homeowner association.

In a five-paragraph letter to Barfoot that he received yesterday, Barfoot is being ordered to remove a flagpole from his yard. The decorated veteran of three wars, now 90 years old, raises the American flag every morning on the pole, then lowers and folds the flag at dusk each day in a three-corner military fashion.

In a priority mail letter, the Coates & Davenport law firm in Richmond is ordering Barfoot to remove the pole by 5 p.m. Friday or face "legal action being brought to enforce the Covenants and Restrictions against you." The letter states that Barfoot will be subject to paying all legal fees and costs in any successful legal proceeding pursued by the homeowner association's board.

Barfoot's daughter said this evening that news reports about the association order have prompted an outpouring of sympathy and offers of help from people following her father's ordeal.

Tonight, the Sussex Square Homeowners Association issued a statement reiterating its position that Barfoot directly violated the association board's denial of his request to erect a flagpole.

"This is not about the American flag. This about a flagpole," the statement reads.

Barfoot lives in the Sussex Square community in far western Henrico; its board of directors rejected a plea from Barfoot in July to approve the pole, disallowing the fixture on aesthetic grounds.

There is no provision in the community's rules expressly forbidding flagpoles, Barfoot's daughter said. But she said the board ruled against her father's fixture and ordered it removed in July, deciding that free-standing flag poles are not aesthetically appropriate. Short flag stands attached to porches dot the community.

"Dad sort of feels like this is the end," said Margaret Nicholls, Barfoot's daughter, who lives a few doors away. But she said this morning that she and her husband are attempting to generate support for her father's cause, a flag-raising rite that he has undertaken for most of his life.

Barfoot received the Medal of Honor on the battlefield during World War II in Italy and fought as well in the Korean and Vietnam wars. A portion of a highway in rural Mississippi, his native state, was named in his honor this fall. A building at McGuire Veterans Hospital in Richmond also carries his name.

Barfoot began regularly flying the flag on Veteran's Day this year despite the Sussex Square board's decision.

He said in November that not flying the flag would be a sacrilege to him.

"There's never been a day in my life or a place I've lived in my life that you couldn't fly the American flag," he said.

The homeowners association is clearly in the wrong here

But what rule can you go by to determine that

[CrossLOPER]

*** deploys instagib rocket stockpile ***

***OUR SHIELD GENERATOR HAS DEFEATED THEIR IR BARRAGE***

[drone]

Similar story to the initial article:

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/ne...201/309031/P0/



The homeowners association is clearly in the wrong here

But what rule can you go by to determine that

HOAs? Way to Godwin the thread, Sasaki.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

HOAs? Way to Godwin the thread, Sasaki.

Would it be ok if he was an iron cross winner

[Strike For The South]

Clearly those posters imply the want to kleep Switzerland archeticture intact.

After seeing those and the minaret itself I'm now convinced that this is just about teh browns.

Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. If the GOP came out with those posters it would be a death kneel.

How can they get away with such blatant racism and still have the referendum pass? I realize they are a fringe party but they were cleary strong enough to get this passed.

Switzerland has prided itself as being a European metling pot but I guess that only counts if you're a little bit pink

[rory_20_uk]

This muslim disagrees with you

[Strike For The South]

This muslim disagrees with you

Uncle Tom=Uncle Mohhamed?

I just think it's funny how blatant racism doesn't bother a majority of the Swiss. They are banning part of a building simply because it represents the muslims and they need to stop that why? It looks the same as the rest of the buildings, it's not hurting anyone, It's on a holy site.

It seems like the Swiss are scared the Muslims can't assimalate on there own.

You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig

[Louis VI the Fat]

I realize they are a fringe party but they were cleary strong enough to get this passed.

The UDC/SVP is the largest political party in Switzerland.

Far right is the second or third largest political current in most European countries. Things are now said openly in European politics that were solid taboos, only thought in private, a mere decade ago.



The far right seldom poses an outright threat to democracy. But there is a more insidous mechanism, one that many clever far right politicians are very well aware off: the trickling down of far right ideas into mainstream discourse. Call it the 'Panzerjager strategy'. You take an extremity and shout it so loudly and intermittently, that what people perceive to be the moderate centre is shifted firmly to the right.

It is a dastardly clever strategy. Return the shouting, and you have just turned mainstream politics into a populist shouting contest. Repose with reason, and nobody will hear you over the shouting. Do not engage in the 'debate' at all, and you will be accused of being elitist. Very clever, and very difficult to overcome.


Peculiarly, there exists a rock-solid means of destroying far right parties: give them governmental responsibility. This has killed off many a populist party, because 1) the electorate soon is forever put off by their usual display of sheer ineptitude, in-fighting and stupidity, 2) their own voters discover that there didn't exist after all a magical wand that will solve all problems if only the out-of-touch elites would listen to the people.

Far right populism in Western Europe is anti-immigrantion, anti-minorities. The brew further consists of more 'mainstream' policies like anti-establishment/elites, lowering taxes - paid for by abolishing wasteful government, 'neo-liberalism', anti-EU, etc.

Eastern European far right is different. The Economist has a good article:

The far right in central Europe differs from its western equivalents in its choice of enemies. In the west it thrives on immigrant-bashing. In the east it dwells on more atavistic grievances: ethnic minorities, old territorial disputes, homosexuals, international financiers and, naturally, Jews. Hatred of the Roma has become a defining issue. Everywhere economic anxiety is exploited. Even a decade of growth has left plenty of poor and disaffected people. Many hark back to an era when the state protected them from crude market forces. This produces a far right that likes nationalisation and dislikes the market.
http://www.economist.com/world/europ...ry_id=14859369

Both kinds of far right have been known to confuse Americans, who might at first glance mistake it for being related to American mainstream conservatism (East European variant, see: Rumsfeldt's 'New Europe') or libertarianism / Republicanism (West European variant).
(Then again, American politics sometimes really does share elements of the European far right, where similiarities are not merely perceived to exist, but are real. See: 'Family Values' in Poland and the US. Etc.)

[Strike For The South]

I see racists. That's what I see.

How they get there voice heard is of no concern of mine. What is scary is that they are getting out there and people are listening.

[Beskar]

The referendum is a complete joke. It should be about amending the rules and regulations, not on a specific issue such as Minaret's. It shouldn't have even got this far.

[Furunculus]

agreed............................. and yet it did, and lo; the people did speaketh!

[Furunculus]

stuff...............................[snip]............................

Call it the 'Panzerjager strategy'. You take an extremity and shout it so loudly and intermittently, that what people perceive to be the moderate centre is shifted firmly to the right.

It is a dastardly clever strategy. Return the shouting, and you have just turned mainstream politics into a populist shouting contest. Repose with reason, and nobody will hear you over the shouting. Do not engage in the 'debate' at all, and you will be accused of being elitist. Very clever, and very difficult to overcome.

...............................[snip]...........................stuff

pssst, Louis, that is actually called not have an answer that resonates with the electorate, and is easily dealt with by finding an answer that resonates with that same electorate.

but i do agree with you on the best way to discredit the fringes of politics, let them have power where their incompetance will become manifest, just look at the SNP.

[CrossLOPER]

Panzerjager strategy...

What happened to him, btw? I would expect him to have plenty to say in a thread such as this.

[Samurai Waki]

but i do agree with you on the best way to discredit the fringes of politics, let them have power where their incompetance will become manifest, just look at the SNP.

Or The Neo-Cons in the US.

[Fragony]

I see racists. That's what I see.

How they get there voice heard is of no concern of mine. What is scary is that they are getting out there and people are listening.

Not so sure, they probably would have voted against anything Islam, I think they just send out a warning to the multicultists in their government, it's a pity this battle is fought over the back of the muslims but it has to happen regardless, the multicultural left just needs to go.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Uncle Tom=Uncle Mohhamed?

I just think it's funny how blatant racism doesn't bother a majority of the Swiss. They are banning part of a building simply because it represents the muslims and they need to stop that why? It looks the same as the rest of the buildings, it's not hurting anyone, It's on a holy site.

It seems like the Swiss are scared the Muslims can't assimalate on there own.

You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig

How is this Racism? It's not like Christianity is a "white" religion.

[Strike For The South]

How is this Racism? It's not like Christianity is a "white" religion.

Not so sure, they probably would have voted against anything Islam, I think they just send out a warning to the multicultists in their government, it's a pity this battle is fought over the back of the muslims but it has to happen regardless, the multicultural left just needs to go.

Do you two not see the bloody posters?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Do you two not see the bloody posters?

I do, and at least one of the guy's grabbing the work permits is white, two of the otherse could be Greek/Italian.

[Strike For The South]

I do, and at least one of the guy's grabbing the work permits is white, two of the otherse could be Greek/Italian.

The fact you choose the least conterversial and still have to preface it is rather telling.

There are 4 minarets in the entire country, this only serves to embolden radicals.

I must say I truly am disgusted in the lengths allot of you are willing to go to make this blantantly racist campaign ok in your heads.

You lot are better than this.

[Viking]

I do, and at least one of the guy's grabbing the work permits is white, two of the otherse could be Greek/Italian.

Racism is not unknown between 'whites'.