Switzerland About To Vote On Minaret Ban

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I really have nothing left to add other than I feel the Swiss people are letting a small number of racist do there xenophobic work.

Oh well.

A broken clock is right twice a day...and in a yes/no vote it's right half the time? Probably not, but racists being happy about something isn't enough to condemn it. I thought you were against affirmative action, or maybe that was someone else.

[Beskar]

oh, how wrong you are.

Try it next time you cut yourself, then you will understand.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Try it next time you cut yourself, then you will understand.

When I cut myself I use surgical spirit, which feels quite similar, it's a pleasant kind of burning pain.

[Beskar]

When I cut myself I use surgical spirit, which feels quite similar, it's a pleasant kind of burning pain.

I know what you mean, sort of the ol' aftershave on the cut when you shaved sort of thing.

It is far worse feeling and it isn't a pleasant one.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I know what you mean, sort of the ol' aftershave on the cut when you shaved sort of thing.

It is far worse feeling and it isn't a pleasant one.

No, I don't think you do, because when I use surgical spirit it's because I've taken all my skin off.

Anyway, it's still good for you; even if it hurts. So I feel the metaphor falls a bit flat; all it really says is that a remedy is long overdue.

We can't support 70 million people on this land, not without everyone's standard of living taking a dive.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The used to use salt to sterilize wounds. It's also painful. So there could be two different meanings of the phrase.

I don't believe it does any medicinal good though.

The "you don't fight fire with fire" from earlier in the thread was a better example of a misused phrase

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The used to use salt to sterilize wounds. It's also painful. So there could be two different meanings of the phrase.

I don't believe it does any medicinal good though.

Salt is very alkaline, it does steralise, just like sulfer, viniger, turperntine etc.

[Strike For The South]

A broken clock is right twice a day...and in a yes/no vote it's right half the time? Probably not, but racists being happy about something isn't enough to condemn it. I thought you were against affirmative action, or maybe that was someone else.

I am for the same reason I am against this.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I am for the same reason I am against this.

But all the racists are against affirmative action. If there were a referendum to overturn it, it would probably be driven by racists.

[Beskar]

But all the racists are against affirmative action. If there were a referendum to overturn it, it would probably be driven by racists.

The funniest comment in reference to Affirmative Action was:
"The reason we support Affirmative Action now, is because in 20 years time, we will be the ones needing to us it."

However, affirmative action can only be a short-term thing, if needed. To have it set in stone or long-term is immoral.

Edit:

As for my Salt comments, the phrase is in reference to the extreme painful experience of rubbing salt into the wound causing the person to recoil/etc. What a Tory government would do, is cut support for the NHS underneath it, and cause it to collaspe and get into a far worse situation then it currently is. Tories just advocate cutting everything and everywhere, even not taking in account the conquences of the actions.

[Fragony]

I am for the same reason I am against this.

You are overreacting Strike, it's perfectly possible to wrap everything that is wrong in the world around this but it would be a concious attempt to do so and little more than that, and it isn't doing anybody any good. What we have here is xenophobia, I think we can all agree on that, it is pretty obvious. Xenophobia is a dangerous thing, don't ever invite it, and some did, this is only a natural reaction to a changing world, what did your grandma tell you about not waking sleeping dogs, this is oh so very bloody Europe.

[Furunculus]

As for my Salt comments, the phrase is in reference to the extreme painful experience of rubbing salt into the wound causing the person to recoil/etc. What a Tory government would do, is cut support for the NHS underneath it, and cause it to collaspe and get into a far worse situation then it currently is. Tories just advocate cutting everything and everywhere, even not taking in account the conquences of the actions.

lol, the logical rhetorical response to that is that labour are happy to spend anywhere and everywhere, without regard to the effect it is designed to achieve, or the damage it does to the economy which provides that tax money which they so love to spend.

[Beskar]

lol, the logical rhetorical response to that is that labour are happy to spend anywhere and everywhere, without regard to the effect it is designed to achieve, or the damage it does to the economy which provides that tax money which they so love to spend.

I am sure all those conservative MP's with their moats and 2nd homes for their ducks would be better in that department.

[al Roumi]

lol, the logical rhetorical response to that is that labour are happy to spend anywhere and everywhere, without regard to the effect it is designed to achieve, or the damage it does to the economy which provides that tax money which they so love to spend.

I would argue that if labour have been profligate in their spending, it's because the economy provided them with the means to do so. Now that the economy has tanked and so much cash has been borrowed for the bailouts, the next budget -by whichever party in government, will entail serious cuts.

Edit: And on reflection I find your above statement amusing given the links in your signature, calling for -oh, more MOD spending...

[Furunculus]

I am sure all those conservative MP's with their moats and 2nd homes for their ducks would be better in that department.

i don't believe labour have much room to wriggle free of the expenses scandal, do you? in which case; how does your comment advance the debate?

I would argue that if labour have been profligate in their spending, it's because the economy provided them with the means to do so. Now that the economy has tanked and so much cash has been borrowed for the bailouts, the next budget -by whichever party in government, will entail serious cuts.

Edit: And on reflection I find your above statement amusing given the links in your signature, calling for -oh, more MOD spending...

sure, except for the point where government spending occupied 37% of GDP in 1997, whereas it consumed 43% in 2008, and and even greater proportion given the fiscal stimulus plan, a fact which is quite simply immoral.

the first duty of the nation state is the provision of internal and external security, a duty that i would argue is not taken seriously by labour given that it has fallen as a spending priority from 3.5% of GDP in 1990 to 2.1% of GDP today. they very fact that it occupies such a tiny fraction of government spending means that any increase is not the cause for any vast swelling in government spending. i would decrease government spending as a proportion of GDP, and raise Defence as a proportion of government spending, and recognise no contradiction between the two.

[drone]

Cleary this is an abomanation and this Swiss people should be angry.

Egads. The smaller pic in the article hides a lot, I thought all that gold was timber. Nevermind...

[Strike For The South]

But all the racists are against affirmative action. If there were a referendum to overturn it, it would probably be driven by racists.

Considering AA denys the rights of other citizens by its very exsistence, that's quite a stretch.

I'm against anything that presumes to know whats best because of wider cultrual implications.

You are overreacting Strike, it's perfectly possible to wrap everything that is wrong in the world around this but it would be a concious attempt to do so and little more than that, and it isn't doing anybody any good. What we have here is xenophobia, I think we can all agree on that, it is pretty obvious. Xenophobia is a dangerous thing, don't ever invite it, and some did, this is only a natural reaction to a changing world, what did your grandma tell you about not waking sleeping dogs, this is oh so very bloody Europe.

Don't invite it but hey it's here so lets us it?

[Brenus]

“This is oh so very bloody Europe.”: The last battle of Swiss in Europe is in 1515, Marignan…
If you ignore the Swiss Guard of Louis the XVI in the Tuilleries…

So not so bloody Swiss is it?

[Fragony]

Don't invite it but hey it's here so lets us it?

Maybe we just see things differently, and are more on our guard, you know it wasn't that long ago half of my family died in W2, my grantmother lost 3 of her sisters, not that I know them but that is pretty common here. Everybody knows someone who was raped by w2, everybody does, the USA ain't Europe.

Edit, I am fine with the germans, my grandmother hated them up to their bones, no idea why I as never told. And I have to grandma's, the other one was pretty positive about the germans, helped her on her farm and all that.

[Beskar]

Maybe we just see things differently, and are more on our guard, you know it wasn't that long ago half of my family died in W2, my grantmother lost 3 of her sisters, not that I know them but that is pretty common here. Everybody knows someone who was raped by w2, everybody does, the USA ain't Europe.

Fragony is actually saying a lot of good things, including mentioning the problems of xenophobia. I find myself agreeing that he is talking sense and the right thing.

Also, Brenus, that comment was pretty stupid and ignorant and completely ignores the fact that both World Wars were fought in Europe.

[Strike For The South]

Maybe we just see things differently, and are more on our guard, you know it wasn't that long ago half of my family died in W2, my grantmother lost 3 of her sisters, not that I know them but that is pretty common here. Everybody knows someone who was raped by w2, everybody does, the USA ain't Europe.

Edit, I am fine with the germans, my grandmother hated them up to their bones, no idea why I as never told. And I have to grandma's, the other one was pretty positive about the germans, helped her on her farm and all that.

When did this becomce a dick measuring contest?

What do Minarets have to do with Hitler?

[CrossLOPER]

Maybe we just see things differently, and are more on our guard, you know it wasn't that long ago half of my family died in W2, my grantmother lost 3 of her sisters, not that I know them but that is pretty common here. Everybody knows someone who was raped by w2, everybody does, the USA ain't Europe.

Edit, I am fine with the germans, my grandmother hated them up to their bones, no idea why I as never told. And I have to grandma's, the other one was pretty positive about the germans, helped her on her farm and all that.

That's a staggering parallel you are trying to draw.

[Brenus]

"Also, Brenus, that comment was pretty stupid and ignorant and completely ignores the fact that both World Wars were fought in Europe.". Yeap, but not by Swiss. So whose comment was stupid and ignorant?
And not only if you look at some maps, as Midway or perhaps Pearl Harbour wasn't US territory?

[Beskar]

"Also, Brenus, that comment was pretty stupid and ignorant and completely ignores the fact that both World Wars were fought in Europe.". Yeap, but not by Swiss. So whose comment was stupid and ignorant?

Erm, there were Swiss casualties and Swizterland did play a part in both wars. So you are incorrect.

[Quid]

This is going to be good!

Quid

[Husar]

Switzerland in WW2 behaved like a rabid Texan, shooting everybody who dared cross their property.

How that relates to the topic I'm not sure though.

[Subotan]

The current mainstream Left in Britain ascribes to equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity.

*Lols quietly to himself*
Regardless, I believe in equality of opportunity over outcome, and I'm on the mainstream left.

This is why people on benefits are as well off or better than those working.

And you would know that...how?

When did this becomce a dick measuring contest?

My minaret is bigger than your dick.

[Brenus]

"Erm, there were Swiss casualties and Swizterland did play a part in both wars. So you are incorrect."
Yeah, there are even Swiss "As. But it doesn't mean that Swiss was involved in the war as a belligerant...
Brazil as well, and Portugal, and Spain, and Argentina, well all played a part in WW2...
Sorry, you didn't make your case, nor in theater of operations or in countries in war.

So the fact that the Swiss voted against minarets has nothing to do with bloody Europe.

Just admit it.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

*Lols quietly to himself*
Regardless, I believe in equality of opportunity over outcome, and I'm on the mainstream left.

And you would know that...how?

Labour has a policy of people going to university as a percentage of the population, grade inflation and exam degredation are practiced to increase the number of people with high grades.... You want more?

How about infinite rewrites on essays, until you get an acceptable grade?

[Subotan]

Labour has a policy of people going to university as a percentage of the population

It wants 50%, and even that hasn't been achieved.

Labour has a policy of people going to university as a percentage of the population, grade inflation and exam degredation are practiced to increase the number of people with high grades.... You want more?

How about infinite rewrites on essays, until you get an acceptable grade?

Grade inflation occurs at the boundaries between grades, not the easiness of exams. This is due to a policy instituted by, er, the Conservative government. And isn't it such a shame that people are allowed to practice essays rather than fail at something which they haven't been taught to do.

The next person who says "Exams are getting easier" without having done or taught one for twenty years is going to get a punch in the gob. I'm guessing you did neither.

Besides, that has nothing to do with what I originally said. That affects stupid rich kids as much as stupid poor kids. Stupid rich kids are much more likely to get a better standard of living though.