Do as we say, but don't do as we do.

[Furunculus]

Sure. See links below.


Only greenhouse effects on planet earth are controversial. All of the other planets lack an oil industry so the study of their greenhouse effects can be studied objectively.


NASA would be a good place to start. There are such scientific endeavors as planetology and astrobiology, where it is commonly understood that greenhouse effects are an important constituency of a planet's climate. These greenhouse effects are studied and commonly accepted. No 'lack of complete models', no fake or bought science, no vested interests trying to create 'controversy'.

http://astrobiology.arc.nasa.gov/new...ws.cfm?id=1386

Or Wikipedia:

"The runaway greenhouse effect may have been caused by the evaporation of the surface water and subsequent rise of the levels of other"
those two words, and the specific placement, seem important for some reason.

and again, no plate tectonics.

[Louis VI the Fat]

"The runaway greenhouse effect may have been caused by the evaporation of the surface water and subsequent rise of the levels of other"
those two words, and the specific placement, seem important for some reason.

and again, no plate tectonics.

The exact differences between Venus and Earth are not the point. The point is that it is commonly understood that - all else being equal - the emission of greenhouse gasses causes a...greenhouse effect.

Except, apparantly, on earth. Where this very basic, two centuries old scientific fact just a theory is 'controversial'.

Is the level of CO2 in the earth's atmosphere rising?
Is CO2 a greenhouse effect?
If yes, then all else being equal there will be an increase in greenhouse effect.



Plate tectonics work in a timeframe irrelevant to the human experience. I don't care about the climate a million years from now.

[Furunculus]

The exact differences between Venus and Earth are not the point. The point is that it is commonly understood that - all else being equal - the emission of greenhouse gasses causes a...greenhouse effect.

Except, apparantly, on earth. Where this very basic, two centuries old scientific fact just a theory is 'controversial'.

Is the level of CO2 in the earth's atmosphere rising?
Is CO2 a greenhouse effect?
If yes, then all else being equal there will be an increase in greenhouse effect.



Plate tectonics work in a timeframe irrelevant to the human experience. I don't care about the climate a million years from now.

and yet you quote back at me the geologicial history of venus, as if it has some consequent relevance as a comparison to the earth right now...........

Louis,

i have NEVER argued that CO2 is not a greenhouse gas, i merely have doubts that our climate change is primarily driven by anthropogenic CO2 as per the IPCC consensus.

my point about plate tectonics was made to create an awareness within a layman that this is a complex system that is poorly understood, and that the assumptions that underpin climate models may have no basis in reality, thus the IPCC diagnosis may be wildly wrong, thus their recommended prescription totally irrelevant, and their prognosis of no consequence.

[Beskar]

I like how we do the same posts over 3 different threads and they will never end due to either side unwilling to give ground amongst those who are completely unreasonable posting in between who call everything a grand socialist dictatorship in the making.

[Furunculus]

.....................amongst those who are completely unreasonable posting in between who call everything a grand socialist dictatorship in the making.

nearly as daft as those who brand skepticism as "deniers", and merely useful idiots* for Big-Oil/US-multinationals/MIC/Neo-Cons/etc.



* well, you guys would recognise that one most readily!

[Beskar]

nearly as daft as those who brand skepticism as denial, and merely useful idiots* for Big-Oil/US-multinationals/MIC/Neo-Cons/etc.



* well, you guys would know best!

Well, I already gave my position on Global Warming some where, and if I remember correctly, you agreed with it.

So I know you are not on about me.

edit: Though much of the skepticism argument is funded and backed up by Big-Oil/US-Multinationals/etc, it is just one of those amusing facts.

[Furunculus]

Well, I already gave my position on Global Warming some where, and if I remember correctly, you agreed with it.

So I know you are not on about me.

and i know mine has been bandied about, is it so extreme?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

edit: Though much of the skepticism argument is funded and backed up by Big-Oil/US-Multinationals/etc, it is just one of those amusing facts.

Indeed. And almost all of the alarmist argument is funded by people who are making a ton of money on it (Al Gore) or by governments. The truth is that everybody will back the result they prefer, and neither side should be vilified simply for who backs them, since both sides are backed by groups which are equally distasteful in some eyes.