What to do with a nuclear Iran?

[Beskar]

America missed its greatest chance with Mohammad Khatami with its gunho policy of Bush jr and their views of Iran, which led to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad gaining control of the country.

So who's fault is it?

Ultimately, Bush Jr did the biggest blows to US-Iranian relations at the critical time they could resolve the issues and get some work done.

So when some one like Obama gained power, the actions of Bush Jr. lead to the radical extremist president who commits a coup to have a stranglehold on his power which makes America unable to act diplomatically. Also, because of the actions of the Republicans and their foriegn policy in causing the recent mess, they some how believe that them causing this mess now gives them justification to cause more mess by invading them.

That is the modern day truth to the matter. However, EMFM might disagree with this, because he believes America is infallible.


(Another tibit of truth, Iran offered full support and assistance to America in the invasions of both Afghanistan and Iraq, as Iran has always had trouble with those regions funding militants against them. Bush jr told Iran them where to stick it their generous offers and denounced them as the Axis of Evil.)

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

That is the modern day truth to the matter. However, EMFM might disagree with this, because he believes America is infallible.

Hardly. Believing America is infallible and being fair to the Americans are two very different things.

The Iranian government has been hostile to the United States for various reasons since the late 1970s. You can lay all of the blame for the ousting of Khatami squarely at the feet of George Bush, but it would be much more accurate to lay it at the feet of the Iranian Guardian Council. Khatami and the Reformists were unpopular with the Guardian Council, who did their best to sabotage him and his candidacy. To be honest, George Bush was correct in his Axis of Evil speech. It may have made him much more unpopular among Iranians, but the fact is that Iran was not a democratic country, and Bush wasn't referring to Khatami, but to the quasi-dictatorial control of Iran by the theocratic rulers who did support terrorism and so forth.

To lay the blame at the feet of America is convenient and undoubtedly popular, but it is an overly simplistic response to a complex issue.

[Hax]

It may have made him much more unpopular among Iranians, but the fact is that Iran was not a democratic country, and Bush wasn't referring to Khatami, but to the quasi-dictatorial control of Iran by the theocratic rulers who did support terrorism and so forth.

And yet Khatami was elected. He [Bush] didn't even try communicating with him. I think if there would have been one way of gaining goodwill with the Iranian people is to have had direct one-on-one talks with Mohammad Khatami. And that chance was completely blown.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

And yet Khatami was elected.

Not freely or fairly.

He [Bush] didn't even try communicating with him. I think if there would have been one way of gaining goodwill with the Iranian people is to have had direct one-on-one talks with Mohammad Khatami. And that chance was completely blown.

Really?

The Bush administration has abandoned hopes it can work with President Mohammad Khatami and his reformist allies in the Iranian government and is turning its attention to appealing directly to democracy supporters among the Iranian people, administration officials said.

The policy shift, which scuttles a five-year effort in which the United States tried to explore ways to work with Khatami and encourage a reform agenda in Iran, follows an intensive review within the administration over whether to adopt a harder line toward a government President Bush has labeled part of the "axis of evil."

A senior administration official said Bush has concluded with his senior foreign policy advisers that Khatami and his supporters in the government "are too weak, ineffective and not serious about delivering on their promises" to transform Iranian society. Instead, the official said, "we have made a conscious decision to associate with the aspirations of Iranian people. We will not play, if you like, the factional politics of reform versus hard-line."

It was tried, but abandoned in favour of another strategy.

[Hax]

Not freely or fairly.

Nevertheless, he made it to the position of President. I think by sending a message to Khatami we might have made a huge difference in the long run.

It was tried, but abandoned in favour of another strategy.

Yes, by indirectly calling 74 million people evil. It looks like we're still in the medieval "Either your with us or against us" stage. Well done, people.

After Vietnam, I thought we'd really learned.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Yes, by indirectly calling 74 million people evil. It looks like we're still in the medieval "Either your with us or against us" stage. Well done, people.

It did not. My country was part of an Axis of Evil, and at no point did I think that 80 million of my countrymen were being called evil, directly or indirectly.

[drone]

Don't drop it all on Bush. Clinton should have started talking with Khatami when he was elected, Guardian Council be damned.

The US government, as a whole, has problems letting go of grudges. Think Cuba. I'm amazed we get along with the Vietnamese as well as we do.