HBO Rome

[Jolt]

HBO isn't very known outside of the States, btw.

[anubis88]

Seriously? It's very known in Europe IMHO. I watched many series of HBO, my friends as well, + the TV was advertised a lot.

And i'm from Slovenia

Back on topic.

I loved the show. It kinda sucked, that it spaned for almost 20 years, while Vorenius and his children remained the same. But hack, it was extremly fun

[ziegenpeter]

Well, yeah ROME and Tudors are known, but I think even among those europeans who know these series, less than 50% would know HBO.

[Fluvius Camillus]

Im from the Netherlands and I only knew about HBO by buying the dvd box. Each time I put in a dvd it forces me to watch a bright scene with letters HBO. Until then I knew only about HBO school wise (HBO in holland means something like American college).

~Fluvius

[Macilrille]

That will teach you Fluvius, to be aware of HBO! ;-)

I was not trying to slag, demean or ridicule SkullHQ, merely curious.

Of HBO I have only seen BoB and Rome, both covers periods that interests me mightly (notice my baloon count) well.

[Horatius Flaccus]

Well Rome was also produced by the BBC (I believe the BBC even was more involved in 'making' the series then HBO was, but that HBO provided the necessary funds), and they are more well known here (the Netherlands).

[Apázlinemjó]

HBO isn't very known outside of the States, btw.

HBO is pretty well known in Hungary actually. My parents paid for it for 7 years at home.

[tarem]

HBO is pretty well known in Hungary actually. My parents paid for it for 7 years at home.

i can attest the same for Macedonia. actually Rome and Band of Brothers are the 2 out 3 of my favortite shows of all times...

[Jolt]

i can attest the same for Macedonia. actually Rome and Band of Brothers are the 2 out 3 of my favortite shows of all times...

I mean the channel itself. Not the series. Sure everybody knows Star Trek, but noone has any clue which broadcast network originally produced it.

For instance, everybody knows what BBC is regardless of if they ever saw its programmes. Most people in Europe (I'll make the reservation of "that I know of" then), never heard of HBO, and those that heard or know it, know it exclusively associated to one of their successful series. Now for people who didn't watch Rome or Band of Brothers or Heroes (Isn't it from HBO also? Or is it Fox? Bleh.) have absolutely no idea what HBO is.

[tarem]

maybe you are right. i know of it though and so do the people i hang around with (mostly from satelite TV and the shows), but then if you ask the average joe what HBO is, they'd give you the

[Horatius]

Seriously? It's very known in Europe IMHO. I watched many series of HBO, my friends as well, + the TV was advertised a lot.

And i'm from Slovenia

Back on topic.

I loved the show. It kinda sucked, that it spaned for almost 20 years, while Vorenius and his children remained the same. But hack, it was extremly fun

Most people I speak to think the HBO things they watch are BBC, people tend to skip introductions.

[Mulceber]

You know that many historians doubt the informations about clodia, but even more about Messalina.

Anyway my personal opinion is just that we cant know anything about that time. Sad but true The facts you can know(Like buildings etc) are presented very well in rome.

If you follow that argument to its logical conclusion then we know about as much about the Roman Empire as we do about Minoan Greece. Sorry, written sources ARE valuable. They don't have the final say, but they do help us fill in the wide gaps left by the archaeological record. Both Cicero and Catullus argue that Clodia was promiscuous. That's good enough to say to me that 1. she had that reputation for a reason: maybe she really was the whore they say she was, maybe she'd engaged in one affair and it gave her a reputation which grew on its own, or perhaps she was just painted with the same unsavory brush as her brother Clodius. Given the amount of things Cicero and Catullus have to say about her, I'm inclined to believe there was at least some kernel of truth behind it. But who knows, I could be wrong. 2. What Cicero and Catullus (and others) have to say tells me that there was probably a subculture of promiscuity within Rome (as there is in virtually any human culture) that was tolerated by some, not so much by others. I do concede though that our sources probably exaggerate it to some extent. -M

[vartan]

I wish they had a better budget to represent the battles, sometimes it feels like watching those History Channel reenactments, with a close-up on 8 romans trying to represent a battle line.

Are you kidding me? IIRC, HBO's Rome is one of the most expensive tv series ever. Only HBO would so this. Costing as much as a cinematic. Insane.

[Elmetiacos]

How the History Channel sucks... last night I turned off a "documentary" about the siege of Alesia, featuring Vercingetorix strolling around in a mediaeval cuirass with pauldrons attached (and I used to moan about EBI's inaccurate Celts...!) and an archaeologist who seems to believe all the numbers quoted by Caesar are completely accurate and that he really did slaughter 430,000 Germans.

[NikosMaximilian]

Are you kidding me? IIRC, HBO's Rome is one of the most expensive tv series ever. Only HBO would so this. Costing as much as a cinematic. Insane.

It might be one of the most expensive, but the battle scenes weren't THAT impressive (maybe I had my aims set too high). I'm not asking for a 300-esque comic-book graphical concept or an Alexander CGI, but something more developed than a close-up on 6 Roman soldiers fighting 10 Gauls, whistle blows, switch of lines, and then 6 Roman soldiers equipped EXACTLY the same way, fighting against those same 10 Gauls.

Apart from that, the series was great, one of the best on that particular period than I can remember.

[anubis88]

Well the Battle of Phillipi looked pretty decent for a tv show; ahistorical, but decent

[Madoushi]

I liked Rome, but as they'd often play it here in the Great White North on Showcase out of order, I'd seen almost the whole Octavian/Antony arc before they jumped back to the eps with Caesar.

I was suprised by how... ugly he looked, I guess. I shouldn't really be surprised, I learned in school why Alexander and Caesar's statues looked the way they did, but I still kind of remember double-taking.

Also recently I read the Emperor series of books, which while good fiction sure had a messed up timeline, and certainly stirred the pot melodrama wise.

[Fluvius Camillus]

They were great at depicting the cruel battles, hacking off limbs without the extremely fake 300 blood. Not a historical battle but one of the best fights IMHO, the point where Pullo fights in the Arena (and Vorenus eventually rescues him).

~Fluvius

[vartan]

They were great at depicting the cruel battles, hacking off limbs without the extremely fake 300 blood. Not a historical battle but one of the best fights IMHO, the point where Pullo fights in the Arena (and Vorenus eventually rescues him).

~Fluvius

"THIRTEENTH!!!!!!"

[anubis88]

They were great at depicting the cruel battles, hacking off limbs without the extremely fake 300 blood. Not a historical battle but one of the best fights IMHO, the point where Pullo fights in the Arena (and Vorenus eventually rescues him).

~Fluvius

Yeah, i watched that part at least 50 times :)

[Macilrille]

Well... that fight is not very realistic either, and if you know something about fighting you can easily see the choreography. What is very realistic indeed is the way vets feel about their outfight and friends.

An interesting essay on realism of war films (modern though).

[Madoushi]

That was a fascinating article, Mac.
I think it applies to many genres, not just war films.

I was going to state an example, but it's 4 am and my brain is mush.

[Ludens]

Well... that fight is not very realistic either, and if you know something about fighting you can easily see the choreography. What is very realistic indeed is the way vets feel about their outfight and friends.

An interesting essay on realism of war films (modern though).

Interesting indeed. Although I get the impression that it is impossible to make a war film that is both compelling and realistic.

[vonVince]

I would say about.... accurate.... On battles.... less.

Nonsense. The battles in Rome are probably the best portrayal of late republican Roman warfare.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbSa9ZvSMaQ

[vartan]

An interesting essay on realism of war films (modern though).

Mac, what are you trying to imply when you say "modern though"? Those who fought wars during the Bronze and Iron ages, as far as I know, were also of the species Homo sapiens.

[Julianus]

Well... that fight is not very realistic either, and if you know something about fighting you can easily see the choreography. What is very realistic indeed is the way vets feel about their outfight and friends.

An interesting essay on realism of war films (modern though).

At least that battle scene makes sense. The first one I ever see where the legionaries know to keep their rank and raise their scutum to protect them from stroks from above and stab the enemies in abdomen and thighs.

[Macilrille]

Nonsense. The battles in Rome are probably the best portrayal of late republican Roman warfare.

Welcome to the Forum. Consider that best portrayal just means least inaccurate, not point-on accurate. As a historian nothing inaccurate will ever satisfy me. I have described elsewhere, perhaps in the early parts of this very thread, why I consider the depiction inaccurate. I am too lazy to do so again, sorry.

Mac, what are you trying to imply when you say "modern though"? Those who fought wars during the Bronze and Iron ages, as far as I know, were also of the species Homo sapiens.

I am not certain what you mean, but the essay is talking about modern wars and why the films depicting them are inaccurate. It sparked an interesting debate on H-War on the pros and cons of war films, but this too concerns modern wars- especially WWII.

At least that battle scene makes sense. The first one I ever see where the legionaries know to keep their rank and raise their scutum to protect them from stroks from above and stab the enemies in abdomen and thighs.

See my reply to VonVince.

[Fluvius Camillus]

I'm glad enough the legionaires look quite good, there is no LS!

~Fluvius

[machinor]

Actually there is LS. In the 2nd season, some legionaires of Augustus' are wearing some kind of bronze(?) LS.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Ugh.

Not this again, look Rome was a piece of dross historically. They got some things right, but most of it was wrong. All the armor etc. was taken off Trajan's column and is therefore both anachronistic and inacurately stylised. The best bits were the little details, like when Pullo's slave-girl touches his (anachronistic) Gladius' blade and he takes it away from her before wiping it down with an oiled cloth. He does that because the acid in your skin etches steel.

Cicero's death was also good, as was the generally lower regard for human life.

Beyond that though... everyone was having too much sex, a subject the writers and producers completely failed to comprehend in a Roman context, and to which they aired every ancient scurrilous rumour about the historical persons.