The Geert Wilders trial

[Fragony]

He just stated in this thread that he votes PVV...

Yeah I do that so what, PVV isn't like the BNP or it's kinds.

@Louis, yes he is very popular with indo- dutchies, but I would seek the cause of that somewhere else, they don't really get along.

van Leeuwens is the leftist church at it's most pathetic by the way, we don't react in the same way when somebody says 'Israeli spy' or 'Indo heritage' as lefties do, nice try. And they try.

edit wait, it was more pathetic that he can't find a muslim girl, gawd lefties

[The Wizard]

Nobody in this country reacts in any way to Indo heritage anymore. It's become completely uncontroversial. As will be the case with all our minorities 50 years from now.

Louis: Hmm, didn't know that. But as said, half-Indo. And erm, what does it matter? Such a character, if he does hate Islam because of his heritage, is part of a tiny minority within Indo society. As an aside, I sincerely doubt he hates Muslims because of his heritage. There is plenty within this country's dominant ethnic Dutch majority which can produce just such an attitude, and readily does as proven by the legions of (prospective) PVV voters. Dismissing it as the outdated grudge of a minority seems incredibly easy and apologetic of ethnic Dutch society, especially on the countryside.

[Hax]

It is not the only reason, but might be the reason for this irrational hatred for Islam.

[Fragony]

Nobody in this country reacts in any way to Indo heritage anymore. It's become completely uncontroversial.

They expected we would, out of the many dirty tricks this one was nasty.

[Hax]

Oh come on Fragony, dr. Van Leeuwen was simply giving a reason for his hatred for Islam. What did you expect, that "the left" would have suspected people wouldn't vote for him just because he's Indo?

Get real please, do you honestly think we retreat into a low-profile location every week to discuss how to get as many immigrants into the Netherlands as possible and piss people off at the same time?

[Fragony]

Oh come on Fragony, dr. Van Leeuwen was simply giving a reason for his hatred for Islam.

Just another clown getting a stage, if I watched tv I would see a knowologue every day, including actually real clowns like Herman van Veen. It is even worse then it was with Fortuyn.

What did you expect, that "the left" would have suspected people wouldn't vote for him just because he's Indo?

Yes I would expect that the left thought we wouldn't vote on him because he's indo, that is how they think, and that is what they tried. They try something every day, not a day goes by where there isn't somebody on state television who has an opinion like this sorry socioloco has.

@Louigi, you understood why Pim Fortuyn is dead and what did it, why don't you see the same thing now.

Heh, it's only after being called out over remarks like that, that PVV supporters like you start to qualify their remarks.

I don't have to answer for leftist assumptions on how I think, I only do the discussion.

[The Wizard]

They expected we would, out of the many dirty tricks this one was nasty.

Drop the paranoia, bro

1- Firstly, there is of course the fun fact in itself that Wilders himself is of dark-skinned, Islamic heritage.

And here I'll have to correct you. The Indo people are Christian, not Islamic. There is an important distinction. They were not considered Indonesian after independence and chased out of the country for being different and Dutch. Here, check it out

P.S. I think you're drawing way too deeply from this pseudo-psychological analysis of his background. It cannot possibly be that important. More important would probably be Wilders's own biography.

[Fragony]

Drop the paranoia, bro

I am not paranoid, rediculing him didn't work because he's too smart, demonizing him didn't work because reality is real for real people, and now they try this. This won't work either, the Netherlands is swifting to the right with or without Wilders, and there is only one reason for that and that, the faillure of multiculturalism and the people hanging on to it anyway. the at times truly sick attacks on him are cruel but he can manage.

[The Wizard]

You're paranoid because you somehow assume that leftists here do take exception to people being of Indo heritage while "normal" Dutchmen do not. This is very, very debatable, to put it very, very charitably.

On an aside, stop trying to make him out as an innocent martyr being nailed to a cross by the evil lefty conspiracy. This is as much the case as Berlusconi is not corrupt.

[Fragony]

You're paranoid because you somehow assume that leftists here do take exception to people being of Indo heritage while "normal" Dutchmen do not. This is very, very debatable, to put it very, very charitably.

No they thought we would, Israeli spy also didn't work because we don't hate the jews all that much, and this is just one out of many tricks anyway, could go on and on. I have seen it all before and see it exactly for what it is. When Fortuyn was treatening we saw nothing but Fortuyn, when Rita Verdonk was we saw nothing but Rita Verdonk, and now Wilders is on the 24/7.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Yeah I do that so what, PVV isn't like the BNP or it's kinds.

@Louis, yes he is very popular with indo- dutchies, but I would seek the cause of that somewhere else, they don't really get along.

van Leeuwens is the leftist church at it's most pathetic by the way, we don't react in the same way when somebody says 'Israeli spy' or 'Indo heritage' as lefties do, nice try. And they try.

edit wait, it was more pathetic that he can't find a muslim girl, gawd lefties

Oh, I don't know, Fragony.

1- Firstly, there is of course the fun fact in itself that Wilders himself is of dark-skinned, Islamic heritage.

2 - Wilders denies or downplays this fact. Indeed the bleached hair is a constant reminder of this denial - even an act of self-denial. His remarkable hair is not a coincidence, but key to understanding his psychology and social expression thereof.

3 -

When the politician's grandfather came to the Netherlands on furlough in 1935, he found himself sacked from his job. He and his wife, who was used to having servants and living the life of an aristocrat, suddenly had to adjust to a new environment. Poverty and bitterness were their lot.

Oooh...so no more Muslim servants for our colonial. No more Muslim subjects for the Wilders family to rule over. Frustrated, some?

4 - Wilders is of mixed race. Of immigrant heritage. Noticable about Wilders of course is that he is not your average European racist. Wilders does not attack foreigners indiscriminately, or those of different etnicity. This is peculiar for the far right. No, wilders only attacks Muslims. The PVV is not a racist, but an anti-Islam party.

By thus drawing the line of 'Dutchness' between 'Dutch culture' and 'Islamic culture', instead of a line between 'Dutch etnicity' and 'Non-Dutch etnicity', Wilders the halfcast becomes Wilders the fullcast. He now firmly, at last, belongs in the first camp.

This is quite common. Note for example the endemic racism towards African Blacks by French-Caribbean Blacks of mixed blood. The former, they insist, are not French, whereas they insist they themselves are. It is an interesting psychological mechanism.

5 - Extremist politicians are at an astonishing rate found to have convulated pasts, an 'off' heritage. For want of knowledge of an intersting study of the top of my head, three quick examples that spring to mind:
Zhirinovsky, the Russian ultra-nationalist and that nation's most virulent anti-Semite (quite an achievement) - who at last acknowledged last year he is himself Jewish.
Hitler, Stalin and Napoleon - all originating from outer provinces who were not fully part of the larger country. In some act of compensation, all three set out on a territorial conquest on behalf of the nation (/as leader of the nation whom they tricked into the abyss) that always saw them as a semi-foreigner.
The shorter and darker the Nazi, the louder he squeeked about tall blond Superhumans.

6 - The Pied-Noirs are among the most resentful people, most outspoken anti-Islam I know. There seems to be a ready parallel between the French who were driven out of Algeria, and the Dutch who were driven out of Indonesia. There is a mixture of bitter nostalgia and hatred for the Islamic rulers of their former homeland.

7 - On a related note: Is the Jewish part of Wilders etnic make-up entirely irrelevant to his openly professed love for Israel? Is that a leftist obfuscation too?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

He dies his hair! CRUSADE JIHAD AGAINST THE RACIST! RACIST! RACIST! ANYONE WHO DIES THEIR HAIR BLONDE IS RACIST!*

All the Japanese I know who die their hair red or blonde are obviously racists. I'll report them to a human rights commissar immediately, thanks for the heads-up.

*And if they happen to be racist against their own race, then it's self-denial racism and obviously twice as bad. Or something. I will never understand the twisted logic of those who pretend to understand the "inner psychological motivations" of someone they have never met or made a scientific study of.

Whether one thinks Wilders is racist or not, well, that's a debate we can have, based on his policies and statements. Using hair dye as evidence? No.

7 - On a related note: Is the Jewish part of Wilders etnic make-up entirely irrelevant to his openly professed love for Israel? Is that a leftist obfuscation too?

I like Jews and Israel. Not Jewish though. Same with Texas, in spite of me being not Texan, Namibia in spite of not being Namibian, Czech, etc...

[HoreTore]

He dies his hair! CRUSADE JIHAD AGAINST THE RACIST! RACIST! RACIST! ANYONE WHO DIES THEIR HAIR BLONDE IS RACIST!*

All the Japanese I know who die their hair red or blonde are obviously racists. I'll report them to a human rights commissar immediately, thanks for the heads-up.

*And if they happen to be racist against their own race, then it's self-denial racism and obviously twice as bad. Or something. I will never understand the twisted logic of those who pretend to understand the "inner psychological motivations" of someone they have never met or made a scientific study of.

Whether one thinks Wilders is racist or not, well, that's a debate we can have, based on his policies and statements. Using hair dye as evidence? No.



I like Jews and Israel. Not Jewish though. Same with Texas, in spite of me being not Texan, Namibia in spite of not being Namibian, Czech, etc...

It does show a complete lack of style and good taste though....

[Moros]

Vlaams blok trial someone? If his party ever gets convicted, I'll bet they'll solve it the same way.

[Beskar]

He dies his hair! CRUSADE JIHAD AGAINST THE RACIST! RACIST! RACIST! ANYONE WHO DIES THEIR HAIR BLONDE IS RACIST!*

I am glad you got your repressed urge to randomly shout nonsense out of your system.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I am glad you got your repressed urge to randomly shout nonsense out of your system.

That was the point, to show the nonsensical. Claiming someone is a self-loathing racist because they dye their hair is going too far.

I hope my sarcasm didn't offend, but it did get the point across.

[Beskar]

That was sort of the point, to show the nonsensical. Claiming someone is a self-loathing racist because they dye their hair is going too far.

No, the article said that he dyes his hair to attempt to hide from his hertiage. It never said because he is racist.

If anything, the points are closely aligned to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad who comes from a jewish hertiage, yet is famously known for his anti-jewish rants.

In the same vein, he is an immigrant himself, and has tried to dissocciate himself from them, in what the article described as "superdutch" mentality. In the same vien, it is similar practise to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad who tries to paint himself as "superiranian", etc.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

No, the article said that he dyes his hair to attempt to hide from his hertiage. It never said because he is racist.

Similar. It's still a silly argument.