Capital falls, empire fals?

**ardorious** · 03-04-2010, 18:19

hi! me again:)
I have one more idea:).
As you can see from the title; when a factions capital is lost then the faction could be eliminated. Because when we look back to history capitals holds the key to empire. Could it be like that in EB2?
But this brings some easy part to game unless we make capturing capital 2x or 4x harder.
I came up with this idea because, one of my campaign i was playing with Makedon and i seized all Italy, alps and even Massilia but Rome still survives....

by the way i am new to forums. could i post new treads every time i came up with an idea?

**Arthur, king of the Britons** · 03-04-2010, 18:32

Welcome ardorious!

I hope you will enjoy your stay here at the org and the EB forums.

when a factions capital is lost then the faction could be eliminated.

I'm afraid that's hardcoded (impossible)

could i post new treads every time i came up with an idea?

Yeah, just make sure that there is no thread that already discusses the things you wish to discuss.
This is to prevent the forums being flooded with identical threads.

**anubis88** · 03-04-2010, 18:34

That logic is completly flawed. There were only few factions in EB that depended that much on the Capital to survive (Carthage, SPQR...). Other factions didn't depend on the capital.
The Seleucid Empire, Ptolemaic Empire, Macedon, Parthian Empire etc... have all lost their capital at some times, a few more then once, but their faction remained.

I do agree that the capital should have greater importance then the other regions though

**Mulceber** · 03-04-2010, 18:37

The problem with that is that actually, the loss of the capital does not instantly mean the loss of power: in the Roman Civil War, Caesar took Rome within a couple weeks of the beginning of the war but that did not instantly grant him victory. In fact, there were several points after that where it looked like he might lose. In Xerxes' invasion of Greece he sacked Athens and destroyed the Acropolis but the Athenians still whooped his ass at Salamis and went on to form the Athenian Empire/Delian League. Similarly, the Gauls sacked Rome in 387 BCE and Rome went on to conquer the entire Mediterranean. I agree that in many cases the loss of the capital was the death knell for a culture, but when it comes down to it, the capital is just a hunk of land. The people who rule the Empire, who are the actual source of the Empire's power, are far more mobile and can easily just move to a different city and call that the capital. -M

**Gustave** · 03-04-2010, 18:50

Imo the main problem is that its too easy for the player to rush on the capital and to make it fall, because of the AI's stupidity.

**Foot** · 03-04-2010, 18:59

Indeed, apart from the obvious historical dubiousness of the original claim (the capital is simply the seat of the government, but a government is a mobile entity and can appear elsewhere), such a system would make the game winnable in all but a few turns. Surgical strikes are too easy to achieve in the game because the Ai is too stupid and the game does not adequately reflect the difficulty of marching in enemy territory. However, as stated in another thread, capitals will play a more important role than they did in EBI, and losing one can be costly but not mortally wounding for a faction.

Foot

**Ca Putt** · 03-04-2010, 19:06

loosing the capital would be of different importance for different factions.

Rome: Dang we hate them we hate them, we will build up our power and kill all of them when we are ready, and their women and their childeren...
KH and all barbarian factions(not sure about getai tho): oh that's too bad, any one of the main tribe there? no? Splendid, now those buggers are gone!
nomads: we had a capital?
Carthage: well they would be sort of sad
all others: Let's hope they did not burn down our big temple, let's conquer it back!

**seienchin** · 03-04-2010, 21:06

Besides beeing impossible to mod,
When a faction looses their Homelands (Not just Capital) I guess it should be exterminated. Having a roman faction only consisting of Vindobona or raethia is something that happens quite often in my game and I doubt that would have been possible in reality. ^^

**bobbin** · 03-05-2010, 01:42

Originally Posted by seienchin

Having a roman faction only consisting of Vindobona or raethia is something that happens quite often in my game and I doubt that would have been possible in reality. ^^

It did in fact happen and quite often, for example Kingdom of Syagrius after the collapse of the Western Roman Empire, or the Empire of Trebizond after the fall of Constantinopole, none of these states lasted very long because they were conquered by stonger neighbours, but they did exist and could have continued on as viable states in their own right.

**Arthur, king of the Britons** · 03-05-2010, 02:06

Besides beeing impossible to mod,
When a faction looses their Homelands (Not just Capital) I guess it should be exterminated. Having a roman faction only consisting of Vindobona or raethia is something that happens quite often in my game and I doubt that would have been possible in reality. ^^

What one can mod though is the names of the factions, which is quite simple. (for those who don't know about it, the file you would want to change is the expanded_bi.txt.)
Some degre of imagination is must though..

**seienchin** · 03-05-2010, 11:39

Originally Posted by bobbin

It did in fact happen and quite often, for example Kingdom of Syagrius after the collapse of the Western Roman Empire, or the Empire of Trebizond after the fall of Constantinopole, none of these states lasted very long because they were conquered by stonger neighbours, but they did exist and could have continued on as viable states in their own right.

Come on... That is something completly different... Gaul and western Anatolia werde like the Mainlands of the roman empires... Raethia and Vindobona in 200bc werent...

**Subotan** · 03-05-2010, 15:05

Ahem.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...pire_477ad.jpg

**Andy1984** · 03-05-2010, 15:46

Originally Posted by seienchin

Come on... That is something completly different... Gaul and western Anatolia werde like the Mainlands of the roman empires... Raethia and Vindobona in 200bc werent...

These areas survived as 'Roman' because some leader and his tribe adhered to the idea of being Roman (read: the continuation of the roman legacy as a political tool: creating a history and a legitimate political situation), not because they felt like they were in the center of the Roman world. I'm not entirely sure, but didn't even Odoaker pretend to have at least some sort of continuation in the Roman empire as well? I too would love to see a bigger Roman empire than the Alpine-Roman confederation of Rhaetia that shows up every now and then, but historical accuracy isn't an argument for that after one allows military expansion to be decided by an AI.