Will the testudo formation be included?

[Maximus of Phoenicia]

I know this was posted a couple of times before,but it was a really long time ago,and the answer back then was either no or we're still discussing it.Now i understand the testudo formation was only used in sieges and hardly used otherwise,but still,it's really efficient when it comes to using it,so,will it be in?

[Foot]

Hasn't been decided yet, I don't think

Foot

[ARCHIPPOS]

Νο testudo ??? Really ???

[bobbin]

He didn't say that.

[Cute Wolf]

the most risky formations back in RTW, as a kata charge will found the ideal target

BTW, they are have immunity to missiles

[Cadwalader]

They are indeed hard to kill with missiles, but I'm sure I've seen them take casualties by them before.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Testudo formation is not that invincible.
Just send one of your missile unit(best choice:archer cavalry) behind them an let them shoot those legionaries into their backs.
They will soon break the testudo formation and the other missile units can release their arrows against them when they try engage those first missile units.

But, I hope to see this formation in EBII because in siege battles(as romans) it will save a lot of your soldiers from shot to death by some Toxotai.

[fraoula]

Can anyone remember any references to the testudo formation being used before 14 AD?
I remember vespasian using it during his judean campaign in sieges but it's after eb's timeframe and Publius Crassus tried a pseudo-testudo formation in Carhae but it didn't work out for him but no other ones.

[bobbin]

Pultach and Cassius Dio mention it's use by Mark Antony during his abortive invasion of Parthia in 36bc.

[athanaric]

BTW, they are have immunity to missiles

Depends on the size of your missiles...

[Cute Wolf]

Depends on the size of your missiles...

Vanilla Onager FTW

BTW, the ridiculously expensive siege engines in EB, means that Attacking walled cities are really difficult..... and the AI on a special mention... can't attack a city which had 4 slingers and 4 militia hoplite to defend them.... even when they attack with 10 star general-led fullstack.....

So I made some modifications... Stone walls take 60 seasons to build, and has priced more than port upgrade.... it was annoying a bit... but then, at least it give some challanging siege battle (with me as defender)

[Fluvius Camillus]

Well AI is too dumb to use it, they will probably turn it on in case of a Catank charge!

But the Testudo is not part of the MIITW engine right? Or can it be implemented?

~Fluvius

[ARCHIPPOS]

Vanilla Onager FTW

BTW, the ridiculously expensive siege engines in EB, means that Attacking walled cities are really difficult..... and the AI on a special mention... can't attack a city which had 4 slingers and 4 militia hoplite to defend them.... even when they attack with 10 star general-led fullstack.....

actually i have found that walled cities are EXTREMELY easy to capture if you can send 1-2 ultra heavy infantry units up the walls. Gaesetae,milhant,thorakitai,hyspaspistai,infantry FM bodyguards,principes and the like chew the enemy defenders in a narrow 300-like front and then the AI stupidly marches his phallanx troops along the walls you now control taking massive casualties from towers.In short don't destroy the stonewalls-occupy them! (yes i know this is exploiting the dumb AI)...

[seienchin]

actually i have found that walled cities are EXTREMELY easy to capture if you can send 1-2 ultra heavy infantry units up the walls. Gaesetae,milhant,thorakitai,hyspaspistai,infantry FM bodyguards,principes and the like chew the enemy defenders in a narrow 300-like front and then the AI stupidly marches his phallanx troops along the walls you now control taking massive casualties from towers.In short don't destroy the stonewalls-occupy them! (yes i know this is exploiting the dumb AI)...

Exactly. I think conquering or defending cities is much easier in EB. The towers dont harm that much, your heavy infantry never dies on the walls, The KI never uses their infantry reasonable etc. etc.-
The only thing quite chalenging is an entrance to a city square defended by several phalangitai.
In Vanilla units just died easier so even levy infantry on walls could kill at least 5-10 men heavy infanty, if they didnt rout and the towers really hurt.

[ARCHIPPOS]

well it's relatively easy if you attack or defend a stonewall city. Wooden walls is a whole different ballgame though :)

[seienchin]

Yeah I forgot about the wooden walls in EB, capturing them is incredible hard^^. Esspecially that with a halfstack rebells in them. Gave me nightmares in my gaul and lusotan campains. Capturing rome with a lusotan half stack was so easy, but succesfully siege atack any rebel city with a halfstack is a guarantee for huge losses.

[bobbin]

I find wooden walls the easiest by far, have at least three rams to break down the wall, 4 units of archers or slingers lined up to shoot at any enemy that get too close, put any troops armed with javelins close to the wall so they can hit anything getting too close on the other side (mind the towers though). That way you usually end up killing about half the enemy before any actual melee fighting begins.

[ARCHIPPOS]

I find wooden walls the easiest by far, have at least three rams to break down the wall, 4 units of archers or slingers lined up to shoot at any enemy that get too close, put any troops armed with javelins close to the wall so they can hit anything getting too close on the other side (mind the towers though). That way you usually end up killing about half the enemy before any actual melee fighting begins.

yes but the first wave of troops to enter the city still bleeds because as they rush through the breeches they get jumped at ... :)

[Cute Wolf]

what? assaulting wooden walls is difficult in EB?

I think I have made a lot of 0-10 casualities only (in my sides) in early siege battles (against wooden walled cities) just using Slingers and Archers.... (sphendenotai and Iasotae are good, Nizagan-i Eranshar are excellent, and Cretans or Kovakasi Netadzik are Superb)....

Especially against wodden walled rebels.... that had pathetic armours (even with many chevrons), and led by 10 star general...
Throwing "fair" fight with heavyh infantry breaching is certain suicide

[WinsingtonIII]

I think I have made a lot of 0-10 casualities only (in my sides) in early siege battles (against wooden walled cities) just using Slingers and Archers.... (sphendenotai and Iasotae are good, Nizagan-i Eranshar are excellent, and Cretans or Kovakasi Netadzik are Superb)....

If EB2 keeps the M2TW wall system, you're not going to be able to do that nearly as much anymore. Only the initial wooden palisades are actually palisade type walls in M2TW, the "wooden walls" are actually walls that troops can stand on top of. I hope they keep it this way, because frankly I always found upgrading wooden palisades to wooden walls to be a waste of time in RTW, because it does very little to actually improve your defenses. But you still have to make the upgrade if you want stone walls. It's just a bit annoying, and I think M2TW gives you a much better incentive to actually upgrade to wooden walls.

[Cute Wolf]

yeah I know it.... but don't forget that "wooden walls" in M2 are rather low, and easy to breach with missiles.... I remember how my yeomen decimate entire french dismounted knights when they stand on the wooden walls.....

BTW, when I play England... it was almost Spear Militia - Yeomen - English Knights army.... with Yeomen take as high as 10 unit per army

[WinsingtonIII]

Yeah, I mean they're not very great protection, but they are certainly much better than the wooden walls in RTW, which are basically just slightly taller palisades.

[Power2the1]

Can anyone remember any references to the testudo formation being used before 14 AD?

The Gauls used before the Romans since who knows when!

[Phalanx300]

This book mentions Germanic "Shield Castles", basicly Testudos. Not sure when they said they were used, did say that some men might have used it as an platform for assaulting fortifications.

http://books.google.nl/books?id=9bId...age&q=&f=false

[Cute Wolf]

so everyone with big shields will get testudo
available to all northern "Semi Barbarians and Real Barbarians - including Romaioi of course"

[antisocialmunky]

so everyone with big shields will get testudo
available to all northern "Semi Barbarians and Real Barbarians - including Romaioi of course"

The AI will just testudo in a giant ball randomly like it does with pikes.

[Cute Wolf]

The AI will just testudo in a giant ball randomly like it does with pikes.

Ahh... so the EB II units will have Scilthron instead of testudo?

*preparing blue paints and a claymore*

[antisocialmunky]

?

No, the enemy units will instead of forming a line, form a blob and randomly use their formations in said ball as it died horribly for being stupid. It would be a bad idea to have testudo since the AI would use it like it would use spearwall.

[WinsingtonIII]

*preparing blue paints and a claymore*

You forgot your woad paint haha

And Mel Gibson will be the standard bearer for every unit

[vartan]

You forgot your woad paint haha

And Mel Gibson will be the standard bearer for every unit

Put his face in the face database LOL