About siege engines... PRICE?

[Duguntz]

Hello everybody! well, i started a Koinon Hellenon campaing (that lacks attention due to my Sweboz conquest on-going). Hey I tought it pretty nice to be able to do some interesting siege battle, to destroy walls with balistas and onagers, killing infantry with another mass destruction weapon! So it's with excitement that I enticipate those siege... only to see that the siege weapons are so expensive the today's american army couldn't afford them! I mean, 30 000 mnai for a balista? Why is that! Most marching armies had their inginers with them, for the sole purpuse to build on the spot the equipement they needed. those that couldn't be build on the spot, were brought in pieces. All the same, it was really possible to build artillery. Why then in EB does it cost half your empire salary to build one of those money eater? I'm no historian, but I doubt that it's for historical reason... Why the maintening cost of one of those artillery should be the same than a whole fleet?

[vartan]

30.000 mnai siege equipment should be the stone projector (catapult). If you simply want an arrow projector you can get 3 or 6 for that cost (5k or 10k versions). If you're dealing with stone walls, just sap them, as for wooden walls, use rams.

[Duguntz]

Yes, that i know! the question wasn't what was the best way to storm a city. but just why are they so expensive!

[vartan]

Yes, that i know! the question wasn't what was the best way to storm a city. but just why are they so expensive!

That's what I wanted to ask regarding this house I wanted to buy. Then I realized: it wasn't on sale, it was probably the highest altitude house in the town, it was recently remodeled, etc. I don't think I have that kind of treasury yet!

[Intranetusa]

That's what I wanted to ask regarding this house I wanted to buy. Then I realized: it wasn't on sale, it was probably the highest altitude house in the town, it was recently remodeled, etc. I don't think I have that kind of treasury yet!

Your analogies are too complex for the average joe to understand... :P

[Magraev]

I agree that siege weapons are way too expensive. If you factor in, that they will slow you down even more, you must reach the conclusion, that they are useless.

It's too bad, but I felt the same way about vanilla catapults etc, much easier and faster to take walls by other methods.

[Ludens]

Why is that! Most marching armies had their inginers with them, for the sole purpuse to build on the spot the equipement they needed. those that couldn't be build on the spot, were brought in pieces.

Er... no. Military engineers did exist, but this is something that only well-organized, wealthy states could afford. Ballista and other powerful siege bows require certain wood types to be effective: they can't be constructed from a few trees hacked down on the spot. The men who operated them needed advanced knowledge (for the time) of both mathematics and material properties, as well as the craftsmanship required to season the wood and build the bows. I suspect that most of the price represents the costs of training or recruiting such men. They would have been the classical equivalent of nuclear engineers: a small but international group of highly-sought experts.

But even taking that into account, the weapons are still too expensive. I guess this is to counter their being overpowered: siege weapons were rarely used in field battles, and it would still take weeks rather than hours to knock a wall down.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Aren't numbers of siege engines like numbers of men in EB? The 20/10/5 ratio for small, large and huge unit size? So one siege engine in an EB battle might be equal to 10 such engines historically, meaning each engine and crew costs only 3,000 mnai historically, not 30,000.

[XrexXxarX]

the thing is, expensive as they are they REALLY arent that effective i liked the vanilla catapults (but thats pretty much it to besides the soundtrack for vanilla) those 1 talent stone throwers can't do squat against units its pathethic and with large walls i tend to need 2 of them to destroy the gate and 2 towers :S so they aint worth you're money never tried the smaller versions though... i should check m out

[athanaric]

The only efficient artillery unit in EB is the smallest type, as they have six or so pieces per unit, with a range of 350 (380 if you're Roman). Fun effect against phalanxes.

[Macilrille]

They do however, often break enemy morale, and that is their main purpose in one or two of my Marian Legions.

That is before Motherboard fried *weeps*

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

with large walls i tend to need 2 of them to destroy the gate and 2 towers :S

Large walls? Do you mean Large Stone Walls, the big ones, bigger than the normal stone walls?

Historically, those were the best walls money could buy. And they were practically indestructible in the ancient era, as long as they were adequately defended. If walls that strong were easy to knock down with stone-throwing catapults, the even more expensive cannon would never have been invented!

You should, historically speaking, consider yourself very lucky indeed if you manage to breach large stone walls at all.

[ARCHIPPOS]

Yep! up until the cannon came the best way to take cities with huge epic massive walls wasto starve the defenders.A lengthy process by all means (and unhealthy because of the hygiene problems that emerged)...

[Macilrille]

Large walls? Do you mean Large Stone Walls, the big ones, bigger than the normal stone walls?

Historically, those were the best walls money could buy. And they were practically indestructible in the ancient era, as long as they were adequately defended. If walls that strong were easy to knock down with stone-throwing catapults, the even more expensive cannon would never have been invented!

You should, historically speaking, consider yourself very lucky indeed if you manage to breach large stone walls at all.

Chartage's in 150- 148 BC would probably have qualified, took the Romans two years of siege to breach/storm them and take the city.