The Logic and Strategy of Suicide Terrorism

[Strike For The South]

The Qu'ran is kinda schizophrenic on certain things, imho.

In all fairness so is the bible

[Rhyfelwyr]

In all fairness so is the bible

But it does at least make it clear what it means to follow it nowadays. With the Bible, the New Covenant replaces the Old One, with it's more peaceful message. With Islam, you just have the Koran, and it's up to you whether you follow the peaceful or violent way.

[Fragony]

In all fairness so is the bible

Yes but in my opinion one thing is criminally overlooked, and that is grammar. There is plenty horrible stuff in the Bible, but it's in past-present, it is god who punished, pretty brutally by the way. But the Qu'ran is written in imperative, you must do this and that. That is a difference no matter how subtle it may be in language, it is really a difference in consequences.

[Strike For The South]

But it does at least make it clear what it means to follow it nowadays. With the Bible, the New Covenant replaces the Old One, with it's more peaceful message. With Islam, you just have the Koran, and it's up to you whether you follow the peaceful or violent way.

Yes but in my opinion one thing is criminally overlooked, and that is grammar. There is plenty horrible stuff in the Bible, but it's in past-present, it is god who punished, pretty brutally by the way. But the Qu'ran is written in imperative, you must do this and that. That is a difference how subtle it may be in language, but it is really a difference in consequences.

Fair enough points, but how many of us are as fimilar with the Koran as we are the bible?

Many of these verses you are pulling off websites and I could do the same with the bible, many of these interpatations are left up to people with an agenda.




Now I'm not trying to downplay the severity of terrorism or the role Islam and the Koran play in these different groups, however if I were a betting man the koran would not be my root of exteremism nor a driving force. More like a convient readily avalible tool

[Fragony]

Now I'm not trying to downplay the severity of terrorism or the role Islam and the Koran play in these different groups, however if I were a betting man the koran would not be my root of exteremism nor a driving force. More like a convient readily avalible tool

I could not agree more really, but the problem is that the lefties have respect. Say anything realistic and they start clawing.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Now I'm not trying to downplay the severity of terrorism or the role Islam and the Koran play in these different groups, however if I were a betting man the koran would not be my root of exteremism nor a driving force. More like a convient readily avalible tool

I think this pretty much sums things up.

What is a 'fag enabler' lmao

[PanzerJaeger]

That group of no more than 100 people, mostly of the same family, has become the go-to example for people who want to relativize Christianity with Islam. There are real questions about their true motivations, with some suggesting that they incite hatred and violence to profit from the resulting lawsuits. In any event, it completely ignores the reality that Islam faces systemic issues not only with terrorism and violence, but also with human rights for women, Jews, homosexuals and others that have been purged from all but the most fringe elements of Christianity. To pick up on Sasaki's comment, the "moderate" Muslims in America and some parts of Europe are the exception to the rule. Certainly the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists, but I would argue the vast majority in the Middle East and Indonesia (and possibly even Europe) have views, supported by both the Koran and the religious establishment, about how society should function that are contrary to 21st century norms and that do contribute to the incitement to radicalization in a small minority.

(I'm not saying this is what you are doing, I just wanted to point it out. )

[Rhyfelwyr]

Certainly the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists, but I would argue the vast majority in the Middle East and Indonesia (and possibly even Europe) have views, supported by both the Koran and the religious establishment, about how society should function that are contrary to 21st century norms and that do contribute to the incitement to radicalization in a small minority.

No doubt, but more often this means they are simply a bit backward, and not political radicals. Like with Cute Wolf's examples, the experiences he is telling us about are with a small number of university educated radicals, and he said himself that the educated environment is what breeds these extreme views. In Indonesia in particular, the majority of Muslims are 'Abangan' Muslims, meaning they practice local Pagan traditions as much as they do Islam, and are so loose in their beliefs that they will eat pork, drink alcohol etc. There is a divide between the educated urban 'santri' Muslims that often turn to radical Islam, and the uneducated, backward 'Abangan' quasi-Pagan Muslims.

This is why I disagree with the notion that education will cure all the ails that religion causes. Far from it, instead education often lifts people out of their naive, superstitious local practices, and turns it into a consolidated, politicised worldview like with the Jihadists. In a way the same thing happened in Christianity. Religion was relatively docile and a good means for social control before the Reformation, but after Protestantism took off you got all kinds of political radicalism and less nice and therepeutic religious doctrines, with the likes of Puritanism etc emerging.

[Hax]

"the people who are fanatical and devout and live the religion are not the real muslims, the real muslims are the ones who follow a more secularized faith and aren't as religious".

Which is also quite near to the view of Islam that Omar al-Khayyami propogated in the 12th century AD.

[Strike For The South]

rabble rabble rabble
(I'm not saying this is what you are doing, I just wanted to point it out. )

I'm aware, I was just pointing out that people use holy books for there own ends

[Hax]

but I would argue the vast majority in the Middle East and Indonesia (and possibly even Europe) have views, supported by both the Koran and the religious establishment, about how society should function that are contrary to 21st century norms and that do contribute to the incitement to radicalization in a small minority.

The Middle East? Where?

Saudi Arabia? Yes.
Syria? No.
Lebanon? No.
Jordan? No.
Egypt? Perhaps.
Iran? Not anymore.
Iraq? Perhaps.

In all these countries, especially in the cities (as Rhyfelwyr) pointed out, Muslims are way more secularised than we (like to) think.

[Fragony]

completely unrelated but I had to http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/8904...gelovigen.html

lololol

[Cute Wolf]

The Middle East? Where?

Saudi Arabia? Yes.
Syria? No.
Lebanon? No.
Jordan? No.
Egypt? Perhaps.
Iran? Not anymore.
Iraq? Perhaps.

In all these countries, especially in the cities (as Rhyfelwyr) pointed out, Muslims are way more secularised than we (like to) think.

Half true, half false hax... Muslims are now partly secularized, but due to their lack of central authority, any kind of movement that hope to gain an authority will always get huge response... no matter how wrong... because all the muslims have irrational fear of hell