Belgium to ban the Burka

[Centurion1]

Thirdly, I'm uncertain how I should feel about this proposition. It can both alienate as integrate the Muslim minority in the Belgian society. Let's be honest, some of the Belgian muslims (and from most other parts in Europe) aren't willing to integrate. This week there was a sincere call for a 'sharia for Belgium' from third generation muslim Belgians. What do you make of that?
I doubt a ban on the Burka will make the Belgian society any better or worse but at least it's a signal.

i hate people who refuse to integrate or at least accept the rules of their host nation. i respect other cultures and everything but people need to realize when they immigrate it is a allowance not a right. no double standards everyone should be treated the same. And im sorry but many of these muslim immigrants to Europe are some of the worst about this sort of thing

[Beskar]

i hate people who refuse to integrate or at least accept the rules of their host nation. i respect other cultures and everything but people need to realize when they immigrate it is a allowance not a right. no double standards everyone should be treated the same. And im sorry but many of these muslim immigrants to Europe are some of the worst about this sort of thing

I believe we should have an open society. You can come here, you can show us your recipes, we can show you yours. We can talk and discuss about the history and all sorts of manner of things. However, in such a society, there are fundamental rights and guidelines, and coming here, you have to ascribe and live by them.

wow. Come over to the dark side.

Not really the darkside, it is just practical and aspects of security not to have your faces covered while at the bank, airport, shops and other areas. The fundamental difference is "You cannot wear them for those reasons" not because of any sort of religious dresscode. As you said yourself in another area, you are not a big fan of religion, same here with me, I see religion as the "optional extra" so if you don't want to drink alcohol because it is against your religion, I have no problems at all. If you want to wear a little cross necklace in a suitiable place, I have no problems with that. If you want to blow up a building and you are not a licenced demolition contractor following the health and safety codes, I do have a problem with that.

I know many self-confessed Muslims, some could arguably be mullah-lite, I have absolutely no problems with them, unless they obviously cross that line which everyone has to abide to, and whenever they are Muslims, Christian, crazy communist, they have to face the consequences of crossing that line. But as in the spirit of the human rights system "Innocent, unless proven otherwise".

The dark-side as you would put it, is discrimination against them simply for being Muslim and other forms of prejudice and discrimination.

[rory_20_uk]

Sounds like the law is political point scoring more than anything else.

At my school doc martin boots were banned as they did not go well with dresses. Of course, the rule could have been to ban the wearing of dresses with doc martins, but that wouldn't have achieved the desired effect.

[Peasant Phill]

Again it is far from a law, just a proposal that's gotten onto the agenda of the Parliament. And as there are no important names linked to this proposal, nobody can really score with it.

[Brenus]

Ban the Burka.
Alienation of women: It is not because you had happy slaves that slavery was a good institution and had to be kept…

The people who oblige or voluntarily wear these sort of portable jails/clothes are doing it in order to be segregated of the society, not to be integrated.

By the way, do you know that you can’t see properly with this? My sister had one when working in Pakistan, you can’t see your feet, and when going down, stairs or slope, you have to manoeuvre the hood…
So even in term of health and safety it should be banned.

By definition, an integrated foreigner can’t be distinguished from a crowd. Me, nobody can tell I am French in UK until I open my mouth.
More difficult of none Europeans I know, but to add self-inflicted segregation to potential discrimination would not improve the problem…

“You give guidelines on dress based on things like "you aren't allowed to cover up your face in public", not "ban burka!"
No. That gives a clear message to the ones who want to enslave theirs daughters, sister and mothers…

“A complete and utter violation of rights”: To wear a burka? Yeap.
If a Religion would impose this to animals, we will all up to arms…
But hey, it is cultural. By the way, nope: It is a political statement. The male have to wear the afghan clothing… That is their right…
However, in order to save Muslim baby girls and to give them the right to be free to follow or not the religion of their parents (and to have a normal bones development), burn the burka!!!

[Rhyfelwyr]

So just because burkas make some people different, the government has to step in to make them the same?

I'm not a Muslim or a leftist... but I don't understand why the same people that like minimal government intervention in their lives are the same people that want it to crack down on any sort of expression of an Islamic identity.

Many women who wear burkas are forced to... OK. But what is the way to tackle this issue if we are to live by the principles of a free, western society. Do we:

A. Ban burkas outright even though it clearly violates freedom of expression
B. Tackle the underlying social problems that lead to women being forced to wear Burkas

I know the reality is a solid majority are forced to wear them. But I'm sure the women that wear them voluntarily, few though they may be, would be rightfully annoyed at being told by the government that they are being 'liberated' by having their freedom to expression inhinged upon.

[Myrddraal]

Couldn't have put it better myself Rhyfelwyr, it's like banning cars to stop car accidents. (Extreme example, same principle).

Edit: and Brenus, you should go to the Notting Hill Carnival, you'd enjoy it.

Edit 2: Peasant Phill, Louis is French remember, humour the poor man.

[Furunculus]

I'm not a Muslim or a leftist... but I don't understand why the same people that like minimal government intervention in their lives are the same people that want it to crack down on any sort of expression of an Islamic identity.

i am a minimal government kinda guy, and i would not support a burka ban in the UK.................... just saying.

[Fragony]

Ban the Burka.
Alienation of women: It is not because you had happy slaves that slavery was a good institution and had to be kept…

The people who oblige or voluntarily wear these sort of portable jails/clothes are doing it in order to be segregated of the society, not to be integrated.

By the way, do you know that you can’t see properly with this? My sister had one when working in Pakistan, you can’t see your feet, and when going down, stairs or slope, you have to manoeuvre the hood…
So even in term of health and safety it should be banned.

By definition, an integrated foreigner can’t be distinguished from a crowd. Me, nobody can tell I am French in UK until I open my mouth.
More difficult of none Europeans I know, but to add self-inflicted segregation to potential discrimination would not improve the problem…

“You give guidelines on dress based on things like "you aren't allowed to cover up your face in public", not "ban burka!"
No. That gives a clear message to the ones who want to enslave theirs daughters, sister and mothers…

“A complete and utter violation of rights”: To wear a burka? Yeap.
If a Religion would impose this to animals, we will all up to arms…
But hey, it is cultural. By the way, nope: It is a political statement. The male have to wear the afghan clothing… That is their right…
However, in order to save Muslim baby girls and to give them the right to be free to follow or not the religion of their parents (and to have a normal bones development), burn the burka!!!

Banning it sounds like fashion-police to me, got anything better to do. We have freedom of religion, I don't think these people have a place in our society but someone thought they do, and I can't help that sadly.

[KukriKhan]

Were I a Belgian man, I would tomorrow - Easter Sunday - wear a Burka myself, and direct my family to do likewise.



But that's just me, a crazy american.

[Fragony]

Ban the Burka.
Alienation of women: It is not because you had happy slaves that slavery was a good institution and had to be kept…

The people who oblige or voluntarily wear these sort of portable jails/clothes are doing it in order to be segregated of the society, not to be integrated.

By the way, do you know that you can’t see properly with this? My sister had one when working in Pakistan, you can’t see your feet, and when going down, stairs or slope, you have to manoeuvre the hood…
So even in term of health and safety it should be banned.

By definition, an integrated foreigner can’t be distinguished from a crowd. Me, nobody can tell I am French in UK until I open my mouth.
More difficult of none Europeans I know, but to add self-inflicted segregation to potential discrimination would not improve the problem…

“You give guidelines on dress based on things like "you aren't allowed to cover up your face in public", not "ban burka!"
No. That gives a clear message to the ones who want to enslave theirs daughters, sister and mothers…

“A complete and utter violation of rights”: To wear a burka? Yeap.
If a Religion would impose this to animals, we will all up to arms…
But hey, it is cultural. By the way, nope: It is a political statement. The male have to wear the afghan clothing… That is their right…
However, in order to save Muslim baby girls and to give them the right to be free to follow or not the religion of their parents (and to have a normal bones development), burn the burka!!!

Banning it sounds like fashion-police to me, got anything better to do. We have freedom of religion, I don't think these people have a place in our society but someone thought they do, and I can't help that sadly.

[The Wizard]

I used to categorically oppose banning stuff like this. Then I started reading interviews with Afghan women who wholeheartedly support just such a ban. Now, I'm not so sure anymore if it's bad to ban the burka. Not so sure in the least.