Doctor Who?

[Justiciar]

Not sure it merits a thread all of its own, though given earlier mention here..

Did anyone watch the Ashes to Ashes finale? Not sure whether or not I actually liked it, but I certianly won't forget it. One or two things I genuinely didn't see coming. And I was on the brink of becoming a blubbering wuss at the end. Left me with an odd feeling. Which is a good thing.

[tibilicus]

Not sure it merits a thread all of its own, though given earlier mention here..

Did anyone watch the Ashes to Ashes finale? Not sure whether or not I actually liked it, but I certianly won't forget it. One or two things I genuinely didn't see coming. And I was on the brink of becoming a blubbering wuss at the end. Left me with an odd feeling. Which is a good thing.

Good ending. I like how the focus on Chris,Ray and Shaz also fitted in. All the challenges they've had to overcome in this season, Chris standing up to Gene, for example, to reflect the fact he died in the real world because he was to submissive and obeyed orders added a nice depth to the show. The guy who played Jim Keates was also on top form this episode and Keates added a real kick to the third season that the first two lacked.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I didn't really find the end that sad surprisingly, probably because I'm more of a casual viewer but also because I kind of suspected it. I'm kind of on the fence as to whether they should do another Ashes to Ashes type series, I would probably prefer it if they didn't though. Whilst it would be interesting to see how Gene Hunt assumed the role of "Sheppard to the lost coppers"; I think some things are best left to the imagination. Also it wouldn't be the same now the mystery of the show is gone. It also has to be noted how excellent it was that all this time, the show was never about Tyler or Drake, it was about Gene. I guess the servants of God really are whiskey swigging foul mouthed coppers. I like that concept.

Also I think it probably does deserve its own thread as due to the recent high quality of Ashes to Ashes and the recent poor quality of Doctor Who, the former is upstaging the latter.

[Justiciar]

Keates was grand, aye. Whoever cast that guy was a bloody genius.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I love how he visibly changed throughout the series. Purely down to the actor. They didn't so much as touch his costume in the final episode. And yet he managed to turn the concerned bureaucrat from the first episode into.. uh.. what the deuce was that? All he did was remove his glasses. And start barking like a rabid dog. I kind of guessed he personified death in some manner or other. Largely down to his constant talk of "shutting the place down". Never figured the connection would be so literal, though.

And heaven's a cozy old pub in Manchester. True, that.

[tibilicus]

Keates was grand, aye. Whoever cast that guy was a bloody genius.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I love how he visibly changed throughout the series. Purely down to the actor. They didn't so much as touch his costume in the final episode. And yet he managed to turn the concerned bureaucrat from the first episode into.. uh.. what the deuce was that? All he did was remove his glasses. And start barking like a rabid dog. I kind of guessed he personified death in some manner or other. Largely down to his constant talk of "shutting the place down". Never figured the connection would be so literal, though.

And heaven's a cozy old pub in Manchester. True, that.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I believe Keates was Satan, or at least some personification of Satan. The way he tried to literally drag the three to hell was quite simplistic but really effective. Also I think further hints of him being Satan are given when Viv dies. Gene states that Viv was a "good man", suggesting he didn't deserve the fate which awaited him, as can be seen when Chris has a vision of him surrounded by flames.

I guess Gene always knew who he was. He probably couldn't tell the others though as they wouldn't believe him and hadn't accepted their own deaths yet. Although one thing which I don't get. Gene Hunt died in what, 1952? How can he construct a world of the 70s and 80s? I guess we're now talking about matters of the divine so its plausible..

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I believe Keates was Satan, or at least some personification of Satan. The way he tried to literally drag the three to hell was quite simplistic but really effective. Also I think further hints of him being Satan are given when Viv dies. Gene states that Viv was a "good man", suggesting he didn't deserve the fate which awaited him, as can be seen when Chris has a vision of him surrounded by flames.

I guess Gene always knew who he was. He probably couldn't tell the others though as they wouldn't believe him and hadn't accepted their own deaths yet. Although one thing which I don't get. Gene Hunt died in what, 1952? How can he construct a world of the 70s and 80s? I guess we're now talking about matters of the divine so its plausible..

Yes, Ashes to Ashes was great.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I don't think it was all envisaged from the beginning of Life on Mars though, I think it was only developed through this series; partly because after Sam left the series naturally gravitated towards Gene Hunt.

I don't think Keates was actually Satan, I think he was litterally the anti-Gene, an unrepentantly bent copper who dragged other down with him. the thing about Hunt that even Sam acknowlwdges is that he wants to bang up criminals, he's focused primarily on keeping the general populace safe and putting "villains" behind bars. This is something that Gene hammers home to Sam, Gene is the ultimate uninhibited, primative, copper - he goes out and gets the bad guys, takes no [ahem] and hang the consequences.

Keats is the complete oppersite, obsessed with protocol, and "results" in terms of stats and form filling- there's a quite serious point about modern policing in there. I say he is the anti-Gene, because where Gene has chosen to stay behind in purgatory to hasten other coppers along, Keats has fairly obviously been sent by someone (the Devil) to drag the same people to Hell.

More on Gene: He said that he had "forgotten", which is also what the Con-man claiming to be Sam said to Alex earlier. This implies that Gene is not a "chosen" agent so much as someone who has chosen not to "cross over", note his pointed refusal to enter the Pub with the others.

On the world: I think it moves foward with the people in it, and it isn't actually centred on Gene; Keats lied about that. It may be that everyone there is a lost soul in some sense or another. Remember the Italian guy who inexplicable dissapears, "back to Italy" because someone else has "died". What about the prisoner who is obsessed with killing coppers, and then dies having become "a legend". I think the policeman part is just the only part we actually see; I don't think it's just Gene's fantasy.

So Gene has been ther 30 years, Sam was there 7, Ray and Chris probably at least ten, Shaz probably less judging by the relatively recent context of her death. The real question is how come there aren't a lot more coppers getting the "culture shcok" thing when they arrive?

Is it just a certain hyper-rational mind, or is it a privilage reserved for DCI's

[tibilicus]

Is it just a certain hyper-rational mind, or is it a privilage reserved for DCI's

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I'm kind of moving towards the theory that those who remember their lives before their "deaths" do so because they're not actually dead yet. Sam actually went back to the "real world" (supposedly) and Drake was in a coma, briefly waking before her actual death. Perhaps then they're given a chance to get back to their world if they're not actually dead yet. I don't really know though, it seems like a bit of a plot hole and that's the only thing I can think of to explain it, be it inadequately.

I can't really think of what other reason there could be seeming Drake and Sam weren't quite dead whilst Shaz, Chris and Ray were.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I'm kind of moving towards the theory that those who remember their lives before their "deaths" do so because they're not actually dead yet. Sam actually went back to the "real world" (supposedly) and Drake was in a coma, briefly waking before her actual death. Perhaps then they're given a chance to get back to their world if they're not actually dead yet. I don't really know though, it seems like a bit of a plot hole and that's the only thing I can think of to explain it, be it inadequately.

I can't really think of what other reason there could be seeming Drake and Sam weren't quite dead whilst Shaz, Chris and Ray were.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

actually, that makes perfect sense. If you think about it, being in a between-life-and-death state would mean you were existing in two worlds at once, and hence the disslocation. Drake was also immidiately translated to "Gene's" world when she was shot, but didn't die until after the bullet was removed.

[Vladimir]

Not sure it merits a thread all of its own, though given earlier mention here..

Did anyone watch the Ashes to Ashes finale? Not sure whether or not I actually liked it, but I certianly won't forget it. One or two things I genuinely didn't see coming. And I was on the brink of becoming a blubbering wuss at the end. Left me with an odd feeling. Which is a good thing.

I haven't seen the series lately but it's coming back. For some reason BBC decided Star Trek was good British telley and Gordon Ramsay is the foreign secretary.