Racial differences...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well here's the kicker. It's the environmental factors that play a big part, and people sometimes fall into the trap of interpreting them as more 'inherent' differences.

Take Canada and hockey for example. Despite NHL hockey really being opened up for over 20 years in the US and Eastern Europe, the Canadians still dominate in terms of talent and depth. Team Canada's B team this Olympic year would probably be the 2nd best team. And they could roll out a C team that could easily compete with Team USA in talent. This despite the huge population difference (ditto on a smaller scale for nations like Finland vs Russia).

Another example, I remember reading about how 3rd and 4th generation Asian Americans don't do as well in their standardized tests as the first generation (indulge my sloppiness in not providing a citation, I read it a while back, you can google it). It kinda throws away any kind of genetic/biological reason for the disparity (as if the socioeconomic status of the Black and Latino minorities was not enough).

I've heard all this before, and Loius already covered the answer. Just because the environment plays a part doesn't mean race doesn't.

[Reenk Roink]

I've heard all this before, and Loius already covered the answer. Just because the environment plays a part doesn't mean race doesn't.

And yet we have tons of evidence suggesting environment plays the role (it's not the Asianess of the people that is getting them to outdo everyone else on standardized tests but rather the correlation seems to be how long they have been in the country) and none for race (aside from some abstract graph and some hand waving... )

If the Asianess of people plays a factor, why did their scores match up with non-Asians after living a long time in the country? This suggests that environment plays the role, to the exemptions of race considerations.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

If environment plays enough of a role that it covers up any racial differences, then those racial differences are insignificant.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

And yet we have tons of evidence suggesting environment plays the role (it's not the Asianess of the people that is getting them to outdo everyone else on standardized tests but rather the correlation seems to be how long they have been in the country) and none for race (aside from some abstract graph and some hand waving... )

If the Asianess of people plays a factor, why did their scores match up with non-Asians after living a long time in the country? This suggests that environment plays the role, to the exemptions of race considerations.

One example, and one known to be influenced by parental expectations; it isn't widely suggestive even. On the other hand, sickle-cell is almost exclusively an African condition, for obvious reasons, to the extent that the condition in a European usually indicates African ancestry.

So Environment is not "the" factor.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

One example, and one known to be influenced by parental expectations; it isn't widely suggestive even. On the other hand, sickle-cell is almost exclusively an African condition, for obvious reasons, to the extent that the condition in a European usually indicates African ancestry.

So Environment is not "the" factor.

But PVC. One might as well say that people with African ancestry have darker skin. This is what we are talking about:

Is it then so far fetched to assume that the difference doesn't stop at the physical attributes, but that there also exist cognitive differences?

Right? It's about assuming cognitive differences. I think it is usual to assume no difference until one is shown.

[Centurion1]

Violent sports football boxing etc are dominated by the poor oftentimes and before blacks were so dominant at such sports it was the forte of port immigrant groups like the Irish in boxing.

These kids in the ghetto grow up thinking they have to be athletic and they have t go to the pros to get UT of the Hood. Plus they spend more time outdoors playing sports than rich kids all you need is a football or basketball.

Furthermore sports like swimming and hockey are so ridiculously white dominated because they are expensive
. Hockey requires ice tint and all that gear most poor kids can't afford it and swimming you need a good pool or a team of which there are very few in low income areas.

Racial differences become negligible in comparison to cultural and environmental factors.

Good book about this is outliers by Malcolm gladwell talks exactly about the hockey situation in Canada reenk spoke about

[Reenk Roink]

One example, and one known to be influenced by parental expectations; it isn't widely suggestive even. On the other hand, sickle-cell is almost exclusively an African condition, for obvious reasons, to the extent that the condition in a European usually indicates African ancestry.

So Environment is not "the" factor.

Yeah, in that case of course, and my very first post in the thread remarked that we should definitely continue to do studies on the genetic differences in humans for the diagnosis and treatment of medical conditions. These are genetic factors that we have evidence for. However, we don't in the case of things like "intelligence" which is what the OP was getting at I think.

[Kadagar_AV]

Yeah, in that case of course, and my very first post in the thread remarked that we should definitely continue to do studies on the genetic differences in humans for the diagnosis and treatment of medical conditions. These are genetic factors that we have evidence for. However, we don't in the case of things like "intelligence" which is what the OP was getting at I think.

Sorry, have no time to make a proper reply.

Just wanted to say that this interpretation of my thinking was wrong to say the least. One might also question the intellectual level of said poster. Don't turn this debate into something mindless please, as some have tried to already.

[Rhyfelwyr]

So Reenk said...

Yeah, in that case of course, and my very first post in the thread remarked that we should definitely continue to do studies on the genetic differences in humans for the diagnosis and treatment of medical conditions. These are genetic factors that we have evidence for. However, we don't in the case of things like "intelligence" which is what the OP was getting at I think.

To which Kadagar replied...

Sorry, have no time to make a proper reply.

Just wanted to say that this interpretation of my thinking was wrong to say the least. One might also question the intellectual level of said poster. Don't turn this debate into something mindless please, as some have tried to already.

But given the OP said...

Is it then so far fetched to assume that the difference doesn't stop at the physical attributes, but that there also exist cognitive differences? These cognitive differences might then of course depend on physical differences in the brain...

I think Reenk's conclusions do not seem unreasonable.

You seem determined for some reason to turn this thread into a flame war Kadagar. First of all you tell Fragony and myself we are too PC (um... rofl), then you start goding centurion over his athletic capabilities, and now you're saying Reenk is saying that you said stuff when you say you didn't, even though it seems you really did...