Daggers in the Night [Concluded]

[KukriKhan]

vote: Methos as a pressure vote. I agree with Diamondeye: we don't know much or hearmch from Mister Methos. Regarding the Naibs and their night actions: I think we've left that to them to decide (whilst discussing the possibilities in private), so far. I'm all for Democratization wherever possible, but at this stage of endGame, it may be unwise to change procedure.

[TheFlax]

TheFlax.

He was 4th on the atheotes wagon last round, and may have been trying to save Split.

Yeah, I tied up the vote between atheotes and split. It was 4 both ways with my vote. I basically followed Renata's case, didn't care about split in the least. If he shows up to avoid the WOG today, like many I will most likely vote for him next.

Plus he made suspicious posts during the bandwagon:

Post 1080, after I asked why Methos was not voting:

Explain this reaction to me. TheFlax tried, but I still don't get it. Why would he ask me this? I am a dead townie. Is he annoyed by me picking on Split?

Sasaki has been writing these one liners the whole game and TheFlax never said anything. Why me? Why this time?

I don't expect Sasaki to explain his prods, but I thought you actually had something to offer. Scienter's post in that round felt a bit scummy, so I was wondering why you felt Methos was scummy. How many times we are going to have through this?

Post 1086, after Sasaki asked him why he posted the above ^ (1080) post.

Again he wrote: "Its not because Romanic is dead that he's suddenly infallible.". Now he really looks annoyed by me. He's attacking my credibility, for no reason! Why would he do that? That's a mafia slip right there.

Attacking your credibility? I said that I was very far from infallible one or two round before that. Yeah, I was totally attacking my own credibility there. I mean, unless you are infallible? Basicaly, I was just stating that since you don't necessarily know more than any of us even if you are dead and proven innocent, then I don't see how it is invalid to question what you say.

Another gem, Post 759, after I talked about split making a list from my post count spreadsheet:

He was protecting Split..

You've done reasonably well until now not to pick anything I said out of context. So why did you add this bit? Are you that desperate? Split at that time had put me on a list of people who were suspect because they we hadn't posted during a night phase. You patted yourself on the back, saying that him taking that list and accusing people had started a discussion. To which I replied the phrase you used to incriminate me, saying that Split was very inactive in your spreadsheet, implying that him accusing people of being inactive was not very good. I then finished by saying he was more active that round, which was genuinely good, unfortunately he dropped again from sight not long after. Oh yeah, it was night phase during that talk, I was protecting him from what again?

On Day4, TheFlax is the only one voting for Split. Post 716:

When Flax makes this vote, two bandwagons are already running Seon/The Stranger, both with around 7 votes already. Great timing to place a vote on your partner, don't you think ?

What? I didn't like Seon or The Stranger as a candidate, so I decided to try to nudge back split into action. Maybe if I ever brought up that vote in defense of me being a partner to Split it would be scummy, as it is, it doesn't have a bearing on anything.

There's other stuff like him talking a lot with Renata, sharing suspicions and possibly probing at her for information.

@Diana: I am curious, is TheFlax talking with you now that you are Naib?

No, I don't have Diana as an IM contact. I talk mostly with Renata and ATP about this game.

In conclusion, I have to say you have a major flaw in your case. (Besides the ones I mentioned earlier in my defense.) You assume Split is mafia and then try to prove that I am by asssociation with him. I agree that Split looks pretty suspicious, but its not a given that he's mafia or not. Until he is proven guilty, many of your accusation seem unfounded to me. (No, no, I'm not attacking your credibility here.)

[Splitpersonality]

I still like Split as mafia. Why? Because it fits right in some scenarios.

Scenario 1: He was away and couldn't send his orders in time. That's why we had only one kill.

Scenario 2: Lots of pressure on him last turn but he was saved by the atheotes bandwagon. Mafia is killing one to make it look like atheotes was mafia and remove the pressure on split.

You give me too much credit, I'm just a boy away for a prom/after-prom weekend with some friends

I understand that we cannot vote Split yet, because he is coming into WOG range, but somehow I have a feeling he will show up to evade it again.

and I suppose here I am, right on cue, funny no?

However I do have an alternative for you.

TheFlax.

Okay, that seems like a more logical suspect than myself.

Vote: TheFlax

He was 4th on the atheotes wagon last round, and may have been trying to save Split. Plus he made suspicious posts during the bandwagon:

What about other bandwaggoners as well?


There was a bandwaggon against me?

My advice: TheFlax is mafia, lynch him now.

K.



EDIT:

If you guys didn't get any message from the host, I went away from Friday until today (Tuesday technically, but I didn't post here), I sent the hosts a PM and any other hosts in this thread can confirm that if need be, I wasn't just lurking it was my prom :P


Secdonly, I"m not showing up to avoid a WoG, I"m returning to a game.

[TheFlax]

Okay, that seems like a more logical suspect than myself.

Vote: TheFlax

It would seem just about anyone is a more logical suspect in your mind then. Didn't you read the case against me? Most of it is contigent ou you being mafia.

[Kagemusha]

Tally:

Kagemusha 4 (Tincow,TheFlax,Beskar, Scienter)
Methos 2 (Diamondeye, Kukrikhan)
Beskar 4 (The Stranger, Kagemusha, Choxorn, Beefy187)
TinCow 1 (Renata)
TheFlax 1 ( spL1tp3r50naL1ty)

[Renata]

Oh good god I can't believe you showed up again, split. Somebody shoot me.

Edit: my general feeling about vig kills -- remove distractions, if necessary, and people who are not leaving a sufficient record with their actions for votes on them to elicit much information. Kage perhaps, though now he's defending himself a lynch may be preferable; certainly split or Methos would be solid options at this point. Double A, if he doesn't follow through on his promise to participate and doesn't get wogged either; Jolt, if he doesn't return to activity.

I think it's still too early, though.

[The Stranger]

ok. split is definitly on the suspicious list.

unvote: vote Splitpersonality

everyone plz vote Split.Renata, change your vote plz.

[Renata]

unvote, vote: Kagemusha

That should set TheStranger hopping. But I think his responses are making him seem more scummy. "I'm so amused by all this", really? "Name one scummy thing I've done" when you've voted only once in six days? Come on, Kage.

[TinCow]

If you guys didn't get any message from the host, I went away from Friday until today (Tuesday technically, but I didn't post here), I sent the hosts a PM and any other hosts in this thread can confirm that if need be, I wasn't just lurking it was my prom :P

Please name these people, confirmation from them would be nice.

[Kagemusha]

unvote, vote: Kagemusha

That should set TheStranger hopping. But I think his responses are making him seem more scummy. "I'm so amused by all this", really? "Name one scummy thing I've done" when you've voted only once in six days? Come on, Kage.

I am amused by the fixation ATPG has on me. Is being amused soomehow offending you Renata? I know this is sooo serious business to begin with,right? I have been playing role, having fun and trying to create fun. It wouldnt have been right for the "press" to try and control the vote, plus can you show some great evidence against anyone during the early rounds? So if i didnt guess vote during the early rounds while playing character is your case, it is not really the strongest one.

[TheFlax]

Because of my defense post, I didn't get a chance to say this earlier: I think Kagemusha's makes him look scummier. I know ATPG and I tend to agree with him on most of his points. At first I almost wanted to change my vote because of his plea, before realising that my emotions were being manipulated here. He has no reason to feel bad and how can a "bandwaggon" (4 votes isn't much of a bandwaggon IMO) be particularly unfair? I thought a lot of them were pretty unfair on early game players, yet that's a necessary evil. Anyways, one point I wanted to address was Kagemusha's claim that he was a crucial townie towards the end of the game, and that this has been proven in the past. Yet, not very long ago, he was bandwagonned in Shadow Fort and claimed loud and hard how it was a bad lynch and how wrong town was. Turns out he was a baddy. Now, I'm not saying it means he's mafia in this game, but most of his defense seems to come either from emotional pleas (unfair, i've been busy working very hard, etc..) and previous game experience (I'm a great endgame townie). It doesn't convince me very much.

Basicaly, this post was meant to just say I was keeping my vote on Kagemusha, but I got a bit carried away.

I hope it makes a bit sense, it did in my head at least.

[TheFlax]

Please name these people, confirmation from them would be nice.

Now that Split mentions it, I got a PM from him stating he'd be away for the weekend, I totally forgot.

For purpose of clarification, I got the PM because he's a player in my upcoming game "All Those Pretty Stars" .

Here's the PM:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hello,


I'm contacting you all because you are all of the hosts for games that I am currently involved in (CFC, .org, and TWC), or will be starting soon.


Tonight, Saturday May 22nd, is the night of my prom, and the following Sunday through Tuesday I shall be away on a trip with my senior class, a sort of after prom thing.


While I am there I will be unable to access a computer or the internet at all, my phone bill has also not been payed so it will be unlikely that I can use that to stay active.


This is just me letting you guys know that this is happening, and for you to make any adjustments to the status of my character as necessary. If you deem it necessary to replace me, or worse WoG me, feel free to, though I must say I prefer the former.


I am sorry for the inconvenience, and I hope the games continue well without me.


-Split

Andres, ATPG, autolycus and Beefy also received it.

[pevergreen]

Vote: Methos

[Kagemusha]

Because of my defense post, I didn't get a chance to say this earlier: I think Kagemusha's makes him look scummier. I know ATPG and I tend to agree with him on most of his points. At first I almost wanted to change my vote because of his plea, before realising that my emotions were being manipulated here. He has no reason to feel bad and how can a "bandwaggon" (4 votes isn't much of a bandwaggon IMO) be particularly unfair? I thought a lot of them were pretty unfair on early game players, yet that's a necessary evil. Anyways, one point I wanted to address was Kagemusha's claim that he was a crucial townie towards the end of the game, and that this has been proven in the past. Yet, not very long ago, he was bandwagonned in Shadow Fort and claimed loud and hard how it was a bad lynch and how wrong town was. Turns out he was a baddy. Now, I'm not saying it means he's mafia in this game, but most of his defense seems to come either from emotional pleas (unfair, i've been busy working very hard, etc..) and previous game experience (I'm a great endgame townie). It doesn't convince me very much.

Basicaly, this post was meant to just say I was keeping my vote on Kagemusha, but I got a bit carried away.

I hope it makes a bit sense, it did in my head at least.

Well as it seems clear that ATPG has already talked you people over to his side of opinion in MSN messenger or what ever instant messenger you use.It is clear i just need to submit to his "superior" reasoning. All i am saying that you are making a big mistake.Unvote, Vote:Kagemusha

[Kagemusha]

Another edited post. Unvote and Vote:Kagemusha

[Renata]

I am amused by the fixation ATPG has on me. Is being amused soomehow offending you Renata? I know this is sooo serious business to begin with,right? I have been playing role, having fun and trying to create fun. It wouldnt have been right for the "press" to try and control the vote, plus can you show some great evidence against anyone during the early rounds? So if i didnt guess vote during the early rounds while playing character is your case, it is not really the strongest one.

This is still mafia, Kagemusha. You could have kept your votes in separate posts; it's not rocket science. People who don't vote get lynched eventually; it's that simple. It always has been that simple. There's nothing to be amused about when someone calls you on it and asks for your head; it's just the way the game works. If you are a townie, and you get lynched for that behavior, it's your own fault. The rest of us have nothing to go on as regards you. Nothing to convince us you're helping us win. What the heck else are we supposed to do? We have to lynch you at some point, there's no other option.

Sorry if that's not amusing enough for you.

(As an aside, though, "I'm so amused by all of this" as part of a defense runs about 75% mafia, in my experience.)

[Kagemusha]

This is still mafia, Kagemusha. You could have kept your votes in separate posts; it's not rocket science. People who don't vote get lynched eventually; it's that simple. It always has been that simple. There's nothing to be amused about when someone calls you on it and asks for your head; it's just the way the game works. If you are a townie, and you get lynched for that behavior, it's your own fault. The rest of us have nothing to go on as regards you. Nothing to convince us you're helping us win. What the heck else are we supposed to do? We have to lynch you at some point, there's no other option.

Sorry if that's not amusing enough for you.

(As an aside, though, "I'm so amused by all of this" as part of a defense runs about 75% mafia, in my experience.)

Well the minor problem with your reasoning is that ATPG is not calling me out for not voting, but because he came up with brilliant idea that i would be a suicidal mafioso that would create a "brilliant " plan to focus the attention to himself completely with the "saharan news" and some of you are bying it, just because it is coming from ATPG. I already witnessed in Shadow fort that ATPG is capable to manilpulate many of you into anything he comes up with. So you become dependant on him whether he is right or not.So excuse me for finding it amusing.

[The Stranger]

...seriously... from now on, everything renata does i will sabotage, simply because she does it. eye for an eye, my foot in your face. or sum like that.

[TheFlax]

Well as it seems clear that ATPG has already talked you people over to his side of opinion in MSN messenger or what ever instant messenger you use.It is clear i just need to submit to his "superior" reasoning. All i am saying that you are making a big mistake.Unvote, Vote:Kagemusha

In my case he didn't, I was actually moot on the whole voting for you thing, but several people told me in private it would be a good idea. So I voted and waited for your defense, which has just convinced to keep my vote on you. Sorry.

[Renata]

Well the minor problem with your reasoning is that ATPG is not calling me out for not voting, but because he came up with brilliant idea that i would be a suicidal mafioso that would create a "brilliant " plan to focus the attention to himself completely with the "saharan news" and some of you are bying it, just because it is coming from ATPG. I already witnessed in Shadow fort that ATPG is capable to manilpulate many of you into anything he comes up with. So you become dependant on him whether he is right or not.So excuse me for finding it amusing.

I'm not relying on his reasoning at all. The Saharan News in itself was not suicidal, but neither does it make you innocent.

[Renata]

...seriously... from now on, everything renata does i will sabotage, simply because she does it. eye for an eye, my foot in your face. or sum like that.

Seriously, Why? That's just uncalled for. Not happy.

[Kagemusha]

In my case he didn't, I was actually moot on the whole voting for you thing, but several people told me in private it would be a good idea. So I voted and waited for your defense, which has just convinced to keep my vote on you. Sorry.

Several people in your MSN ring right? In matter of fact with second thought. Unvote and Vote: Beskar. Ever since i came back to mafia games some of people playing have tried to make me somekind of default lynch candidate. I will not submit to this line of thought. If this would be my last game as mafia i will not submit but rather go out fighting.To Renata.You and Secura have tried to get me lynched in any game i have played reacently.So i wont put much thought on your reasoning as it seems you have biased opinion about me to begin with. Nothing i could say would change your opinon as you can twist it around how you like it. Your line of thought is that only thing that could make me innocent is my death. Have it occurred to you that it applies to everyone in this game?

[TheFlax]

Several people in your MSN ring right?

That's true, initially I would not have voted for you if not for several people with whom I've talked about the game. That's why I felt it necessary to post after you had defended to explain why I was keeping my vote on you, no one told me to do that and most likely I would have voted for you after that if I hadn't previously done so.

[Romanic]

Split is back (of course), and suddenly TheFlax finds an email of him saying he will be inactive for 3 days or so, allegedly for a game that hasn't started yet.

Lynch Spit now. That's enough!

[TinCow]

Split is back (of course), and suddenly TheFlax finds an email of him saying he will be inactive for 3 days or so, allegedly for a game that hasn't started yet.

Lynch Spit now. That's enough!

Unless Beefy or ATPG say they didn't receive the PM as was claimed, I don't see how this makes either split or TheFlax scummy.

[Renata]

Several people in your MSN ring right? In matter of fact with second thought. Unvote and Vote: Beskar. Ever since i came back to mafia games some of people playing have tried to make me somekind of default lynch candidate. I will not submit to this line of thought. If this would be my last game as mafia i will not submit but rather go out fighting.To Renata.You and Secura have tried to get me lynched in any game i have played reacently.So i wont put much thought on your reasoning as it seems you have biased opinion about me to begin with. Nothing i could say would change your opinon as you can twist it around how you like it. Your line of thought is that only thing that could make me innocent is my death. Have it occurred to you that it applies to everyone in this game?

What? That's complete BS, Kagemusha, and you know it. I can't even remember if I voted for you in Shadow Fort, but I certainly didn't push your lynch (more fool, me), and I never asked for you to be lynched in RotS either. That is the entirety of our experience together. In this game, I commented early on, in appreciation of your Saharan News efforts, that anyone who voted you before day six would lose at life.

Whatever. I hope you're mafia, because this sucks.

Back in a few hours.

[Renata]

Split is back (of course), and suddenly TheFlax finds an email of him saying he will be inactive for 3 days or so, allegedly for a game that hasn't started yet.

Lynch Spit now. That's enough!

Split should be vigged, not lynched, IMO. His behavior makes any votes for him next to meaningless; that's not true of most other players.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Kagemusha is a superior player and he's also withstood my accusations before, in games like Mafia IX. His overreaction here is totally OOC. It's overblown and he's taking things way too personal.

@Kage-
I honestly hope you are mafia because you're pulling a freak out the likes of which I haven't seen since, oh, White_Eyes. And he's gotten better...

[Kagemusha]

What? That's complete BS, Kagemusha, and you know it. I can't even remember if I voted for you in Shadow Fort, but I certainly didn't push your lynch (more fool, me), and I never asked for you to be lynched in RotS either. That is the entirety of our experience together. In this game, I commented early on, in appreciation of your Saharan News efforts, that anyone who voted you before day six would lose at life.

Whatever. I hope you're mafia, because this sucks.

Back in a few hours.

You do remember GH´s mafia?But i apologise i was out of line. Because the grazy hours and shift changes in work. I have become quite grumpy lately and i think my comment was uncalled for.Same goes with the comment about Secura Maybe its just better for me to take my leave from any hectic game activity once this one is over, atleast untill my real life stress eases up a bit. I apologise for acting like a jerk.

[Romanic]

Unless Beefy or ATPG say they didn't receive the PM as was claimed, I don't see how this makes either split or TheFlax scummy.

This one element does not make either scummy, I agree, but it's hardly believable with everything else we've seen. TheFlax is protecting Split again.