Sieging Large Stone Wall

**Yeos** · 05-27-2010, 03:27

Just last night in my Romani campaign, I siege a large stone at Ambrakia from the epiros. I thought it will an easy fight on walls, since the Epeirote Elite Phalanx cannot used their pike on top of the walls. So I used classical hoplital, climb up the wall and engage on the walls with the Elite phalanx. I was amaze when I started lossing more men than the Elite phalanx.

I loss a quater of my army fighting in the wall of the city alone.......

I know, I know. I underestimated the phalanx on walls. Now I wan to ask, what makes a good wall sieged unit? Do anyone know any unit that can fight on the walls, lose at little as possible and kill as many as possible? I not looking for the "perfect" unit, just something that can be used on walls.

**Zim** · 05-27-2010, 05:28

Elite phalangites are actually quite good swordsmen. I even use the medium ones on walls sometimes in my Ptolemy game. Spears do not do great on walls in my experience, though, especially in assaults. That is likely why your hoplites fared so poorly (and that the enemy unit was larger as well as elite)

I tend to fight most of my battles in the field (or in siege defenses) so others might have better or more specific advice, but I find just about any good, well armored sword or axe infantry do well in assaults (the latter especially if enemy units are armored). Many of the so-called "Assault Infantry" can be a bit too lightly armored for taking walls, although they do better on siege towers than ladders. Keep in mind your units are often surrounded when first making it onto the walls, and will be taking fire from wall towers, so casualties will likely always be heavier than you're used to from field battles.

If you outnumber the enemy hit the walls from as many spots as possible. If you can surround some of his units you'll do much better. I tend to put my better infantry on siege towers where they're better protected and come onto the wall all at one and then use cheaper units on ladders to move behind enemy units and flank them.

As far as units specific to the Romans I'd say Princepes (preferably after the first reform, when they get swords) and the Pedites Milites (can you still recruit these guys after the Polybian reforms? I've never played long as Rome) would do well fulfilling the heavy infantry role, and Hastati as the lighter cheaper units. Some of the Celtic sword wielding mercenaries that are so ubiquitous would do well, although I'd expect heavy casualties.

**athanaric** · 05-27-2010, 06:19

Thracian Elite Swordsmen. Some Bastarnae mercenaries will also be effective, provided they don't get fired at by enemy archers. Other than that, Pedites Extraordinarii are the obvious choice. Or Samnitici Milites if you are still in the Camillan Era.

**Cute Wolf** · 05-27-2010, 06:33

Hire some naked dudes to kick their ass down from the walls.... it was only 7000 minai, and you could got Tindanotae.....

**Yeos** · 05-27-2010, 08:39

Spears do not do great on walls in my experience, though, especially in assaults. That is likely why your hoplites fared so poorly (and that the enemy unit was larger as well as elite)

No wonder why i loss so much men on Ambrakia. I have gotta make changes to my army in Greece (which consists a lot of local unit that are spear user.....). ^^

Ok, now that I know what unit is good on walls, how do you guys usually fight with them (on the walls) ? I mean do you guys like on the guard mode or something something. Any tips for it?

**vartan** · 05-27-2010, 09:02

Advice:

Use lethal units. These include those that use swords and falxes. And I don't mean short swords. Sword with greater than 0.13 lethality. Axes and maces will do as well. And fight on the walls with guard mode off. If you don't, your units will not engage with gusto, if you will. Only a handful of units will engage and the rest will just go on standby.

**Zradha Pahlavan** · 05-27-2010, 19:36

Just sap the place like crazy and be done with it.

**SaigonSaddler** · 05-28-2010, 23:57

If it's well defended, use three/four siege towers and sacrifice a couple of units as decoys for the main attack. Once a unit has broken, run to the nearest clear gate and rush through you cavalry and other units. The defenders are likely to leave the walls and will take heavy losses from the towers (now in your possession) and from any missiles you can throw. Try and massacre the fleeing defenders and then reduce the last defenders on the city square if possible. Try to tempt then into an attack and hit them from all sides. Hopefully you will be able to break them and the city is YOURS!

**antisocialmunky** · 05-29-2010, 02:10

Are these walls that give the attacker ballista siege towers?

**Yeos** · 05-29-2010, 06:38

Originally Posted by SaigonSaddler

If it's well defended, use three/four siege towers and sacrifice a couple of units as decoys for the main attack. Once a unit has broken, run to the nearest clear gate and rush through you cavalry and other units. The defenders are likely to leave the walls and will take heavy losses from the towers (now in your possession) and from any missiles you can throw. Try and massacre the fleeing defenders and then reduce the last defenders on the city square if possible. Try to tempt then into an attack and hit them from all sides. Hopefully you will be able to break them and the city is YOURS!

I am a person who refused to sacrifice a unit to get a victory (can lose 2-3 quarter of the unit but not all). So I generally try to get my units to win with as little killed as possible.

Are these walls that give the attacker ballista siege towers?

It is the stage where it change from a wooden wall to stone wall (the name is large stone wall, if i remember correctly.....)

**SaigonSaddler** · 05-29-2010, 09:23

Originally Posted by Yeos

I am a person who refused to sacrifice a unit to get a victory (can lose 2-3 quarter of the unit but not all). So I generally try to get my units to win with as little killed as possible.

.....)

Yes but you need to get through the gates, or over the wall. Assuming the defenders have enough to defend the walls, you are going to lose a fair number in a straight assault. The best option is to starve them out, then wait for the survivors to sally forth into your lines where they will be decimated. If you don't want to wait for 6+ turns for this to happen though then an assault is the only way.

You will find you lose more trying to bulldoze your way through the nearest wall section, than using a number of siege towers/ladders/mines and spreading their defences. The decoys don't necessarily have to be lost, as once an assault begins, defenders may run to the point of crisis, leaving the 'decoy' as the ones who actually get to the nearest gate first.

What you don't want is to be fighting large numbers of defending infantry either on the walls or in the town square. If they're good, well led and numerous enough your entire force may give up and flee. Slay them when they run back to the town centre either by missiles or cutting them down.

Good luck!