Israel kills to Maintain Blockade

[Furunculus]

What I'm saying is that Israel handled this as clumsy as possible. They should have boarded the ships in their territorial waters, not in international waters. You may not like it, but by boarding those ships in international waters, using force, they violated international law.

Exclusive. Economic. Zone.

Article58

3. In exercising their rights and performing their duties under this Convention in the exclusive economic zone, States shall have due regard to the rights and duties of the coastal State and shall comply with the laws and regulations adopted by the coastal State in accordance with the provisions of this Convention and other rules of international law in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.

Article73

1. The coastal State may, in the exercise of its sovereign rights to explore, exploit, conserve and manage the living resources in the exclusive economic zone, take such measures, including boarding, inspection, arrest and judicial proceedings, as may be necessary to ensure compliance with the laws and regulations adopted by it in conformity with this Convention.

[rory_20_uk]

The waters are not those of Israel - they're Gazan waters.

[LeftEyeNine]

Another detail we come to see thanks to the thread:

Warmonging before your gaming consoles is the new hobby of the gym-pumped rifle-poser softie.

Teach Turks a lesson ! AIIEEEEEEEYAY !

First of all, such a scenario ends up a war of worldwide scale since the "starring" actors are the flag carriers of the silent polarization that inherits cold-war era stances as well as the newly developed religiously-devoted yet actually political-oriented anti-american and anti-zionist movement.

It's no wonder how our luvley unkle gets himself trapped in mud over and over 'cause apparently it somehow maintains an endless stream of warmongers. Intellectuality has nothing to do with level of welfare over there across this continent. Somebody out there is still wishing for his very own citizens to get choked in Middle East just as they did in Vietnam and Iraq.

Sorry to disappoint you but the people this surrounding has raised are so hard-skinned -ridiculously, thanks to G8 meddlings here- that they may be failing at everything else but they fight well. If they can't do it, they can blow themselves up. Bitter fact about ones that ain't got much to lose.

Anyway, even the "I'm-so-neutral"ists were looking for an excuse to turn their pro-in-advance faces on. As soon as we got shots of Israeli troops landing on the civilian ship in international waters, "oh look how they deserve to die" monging popped up.

Is this how your lovely democracies were rubbed in face of us in the very first chance ? Is this the first time on earth some professional and organized security force encounters an angry mob ? Have we re-furnished your understanding of humanism with "go for the kill if they're angry" kind of handling ? If professionals act so, and out of their national waters, what can you expect out of ones in the streets ? Looking out of your window (ref: "what did you expect Israel to do ?"): Seriously, what kind of reaction did you expect to see when those people saw Israeli troopers being offloaded onto their ships ?

Keep it honest please. If you're pro-Israel, you don't have to hide behind the curtain, 'cause your Israel flag slippers can still be seen.

You've lost your sense for value of human life. But I say, screw it, you got your God of War 4 on PS3 coming anyway. We will keep on suffering your neo-connazi-run governments' policies. Bonus: A lot of your citizens included in the suffering.

[Furunculus]

Another detail we come to see thanks to the thread:

Warmonging before your gaming consoles is the new hobby of the gym-pumped rifle-poser softie.

Teach Turks a lesson ! AIIEEEEEEEYAY !

First of all, such a scenario ends up a war of worldwide scale since the "starring" actors are the flag carriers of the silent polarization that inherits cold-war era stances as well as the newly developed religiously-devoted yet actually political-oriented anti-american and anti-zionist movement.

It's no wonder how our luvley unkle gets himself trapped in mud over and over 'cause apparently it somehow maintains an endless stream of warmongers. Intellectuality has nothing to do with level of welfare over there across this continent. Somebody out there is still wishing for his very own citizens to get choked in Middle East just as they did in Vietnam and Iraq.

Sorry to disappoint you but the people this surrounding has raised are so hard-skinned -ridiculously, thanks to G8 meddlings here- that they may be failing at everything else but they fight well. If they can't do it, they can blow themselves up. Bitter fact about ones that ain't got much to lose.

Anyway, even the "I'm-so-neutral"ists were looking for an excuse to turn their pro-in-advance faces on. As soon as we got shots of Israeli troops landing on the civilian ship in international waters, "oh look how they deserve to die" monging popped up.

Is this how your lovely democracies were rubbed in face of us in the very first chance ? Is this the first time on earth some professional and organized security force encounters an angry mob ? Have we re-furnished your understanding of humanism with "go for the kill if they're angry" kind of handling ? If professionals act so, and out of their national waters, what can you expect out of ones in the streets ? Looking out of your window (ref: "what did you expect Israel to do ?"): Seriously, what kind of reaction did you expect to see when those people saw Israeli troopers being offloaded onto their ships ?

Keep it honest please. If you're pro-Israel, you don't have to hide behind the curtain, 'cause your Israel flag slippers can still be seen.

You've lost your sense for value of human life. But I say, screw it, you got your God of War 4 on PS3 coming anyway. We will keep on suffering your neo-connazi-run governments' policies. Bonus: A lot of your citizens included in the suffering.

i am very much pro-turkey, so be careful where you swing your blunt and cumbersome accusations.

[LeftEyeNine]

i am very much pro-turkey, so be careful where you swing your blunt and cumbersome accusations.

This is about being pro-Israel, not pro-Turkey, for which I don't care actually. Respect is earnt, not demanded, if that's your point.

Also whole paragraph was not only about you. But I'm glad the message got delivered, live with it.

[PanzerJaeger]

Another detail we come to see thanks to the thread:

Warmonging before your gaming consoles is the new hobby of the gym-pumped rifle-poser softie.

Teach Turks a lesson ! AIIEEEEEEEYAY !

First of all, such a scenario ends up a war of worldwide scale since the "starring" actors are the flag carriers of the silent polarization that inherits cold-war era stances as well as the newly developed religiously-devoted yet actually political-oriented anti-american and anti-zionist movement.

It's no wonder how our luvley unkle gets himself trapped in mud over and over 'cause apparently it somehow maintains an endless stream of warmongers. Intellectuality has nothing to do with level of welfare over there across this continent. Somebody out there is still wishing for his very own citizens to get choked in Middle East just as they did in Vietnam and Iraq.

Sorry to disappoint you but the people this surrounding has raised are so hard-skinned -ridiculously, thanks to G8 meddlings here- that they may be failing at everything else but they fight well. If they can't do it, they can blow themselves up. Bitter fact about ones that ain't got much to lose.

Anyway, even the "I'm-so-neutral"ists were looking for an excuse to turn their pro-in-advance faces on. As soon as we got shots of Israeli troops landing on the civilian ship in international waters, "oh look how they deserve to die" monging popped up.

Is this how your lovely democracies were rubbed in face of us in the very first chance ? Is this the first time on earth some professional and organized security force encounters an angry mob ? Have we re-furnished your understanding of humanism with "go for the kill if they're angry" kind of handling ? If professionals act so, and out of their national waters, what can you expect out of ones in the streets ? Looking out of your window (ref: "what did you expect Israel to do ?"): Seriously, what kind of reaction did you expect to see when those people saw Israeli troopers being offloaded onto their ships ?

Keep it honest please. If you're pro-Israel, you don't have to hide behind the curtain, 'cause your Israel flag slippers can still be seen.

You've lost your sense for value of human life. But I say, screw it, you got your God of War 4 on PS3 coming anyway. We will keep on suffering your neo-connazi-run governments' policies. Bonus: A lot of your citizens included in the suffering.

Is there any way you can write a longer post that makes less sense?

I mean, seriously, as someone who is pro-Israel, I feel like maybe I should be insulted. It appears that post is laced with personal attacks and insults, especially considering your other posts in this thread. However, it is so nonsensical and so poorly written, I'm just not sure.

Can you explain what you meant more clearly?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Is there any way you can write a longer post that makes less sense?

I mean, seriously, as someone who is pro-Israel, I feel like maybe I should be insulted. It appears that post is laced with personal attacks and insults, especially considering your other posts in this thread. However, it is so nonsensical and so poorly written, I'm just not sure.

Can you explain what you meant more clearly?

It rambled a bit, PJ, but the basic thrust was pretty clear. He's suggesting that a lot of the posturings and platitudes are blatantly hypocritical, and goes on to suggest that he'd prefer the comments of out-and-out "I want the Israelis to win" types over people who he believes WANT to say that but are veiling their commentary in nit-picky assessments of international law. LEN's not necessarily correct, but it's not an entirely unfounded critique.

I'd complain more about his use of English if I myself had half as good a command of a second language. Until I do, I'll just read with a discerning eye and look at the spirit of it more than the particulars of parsiflage.

[Furunculus]

It rambled a bit, PJ, but the basic thrust was pretty clear. He's suggesting that a lot of the posturings and platitudes are blatantly hypocritical, and goes on to suggest that he'd prefer the comments of out-and-out "I want the Israelis to win" types over people who he believes WANT to say that but are veiling their commentary in nit-picky assessments of international law. LEN's not necessarily correct, but it's not an entirely unfounded critique.

and i pointed out, politely, that what he was saying was utter bovine excrement from my own point of view, as the charge that israeli bias is causing me to hide behind legal technicalities is utterly ridiculous given that i am equally pro-turkey as I am pro-israel.

[Andres]

Exclusive. Economic. Zone.

The point being?

Your quote:

The coastal State may, in the exercise of its sovereign rights to explore, exploit, conserve and manage the living resources in the exclusive economic zone, take such measures, including boarding,

Pray, tell me, which sovereign rights to "explore, exploit, conserve and manage the living resources" in the EEZ were being exercised by Israel when they boarded the ship? Are ships carrying humanitarian aid a danger for the species living in Israels (some might argue that it's not Israels EEZ, but Gaza's...) EEZ? Were the humanitarian ships buildling an oil platform? Where the Israeli commando's entering the ships armed an all geared up because they saw the activists fishing?



If you're going to quote, then make sure you read the entire text, not just the part you want to read. Contrary to what you seem to imply, "may take such measures, including boarding" is not what is written there.

[Furunculus]

The point being?

Your quote:



Pray, tell me, which sovereign rights to "explore, exploit, conserve and manage the living resources" in the EEZ were being exercised by Israel when they boarded the ship? Are ships carrying humanitarian aid a danger for the species living in Israels (some might argue that it's not Israels EEZ, but Gaza's...) EEZ? Were the humanitarian ships buildling an oil platform? Where the Israeli commando's entering the ships armed an all geared up because they saw the activists fishing?



If you're going to quote, then make sure you read the entire text, not just the part you want to read. Contrary to what you seem to imply, "may take such measures, including boarding" is not what is written there.

my point; the situation is not clear cut, as Saemus rightly questioned this is not a cut-n-dried case of international waters.

[Andres]

my point; the situation is not clear cut, as Saemus rightly questioned this is not a cut-n-dried case of international waters.

But it is.

The problem is that if they admit it, Israel (and its' allies) will also have to admit that Israel breached international law. So now, they wringle and twist simple enough facts, claiming that "it needs to be investigated and examined first", to buy time, in the hope the press and the international community gets bored with the story after a week or so and everything can be wiped quickly under the carpet; in the meanwhile doing nothing and giving Israel a free pass.

Meh.

[Furunculus]

But it is.

your opinion, not mine.

[Kralizec]

my point; the situation is not clear cut, as Saemus rightly questioned this is not a cut-n-dried case of international waters.

Pretty much every news source I've seen has reported that the boarding took place outside Israel's territorial waters. Kukri's original question was, I thought, not unreasonable. But you immediately expected that it would turn out Israel hadn't done anything wrong, as evidenced by your statement that you'd be "surprised if israel made a mistake that elementary".

Personally I don't see how it would be surprising to anyone. It just shows that Israel will disregard international law when dealing with anyone that they consider hostile, wether they're Palestinians or citizens of (formerly) friendly countries

[Beskar]

But it is.

The problem is that if they admit it, Israel (and its' allies) will also have to admit that Israel breached international law. So now, they wringle and twist simple enough facts, claiming that "it needs to be investigated and examined first", to buy time, in the hope the press and the international community gets bored with the story after a week or so and everything can be wiped quickly under the carpet; in the meanwhile doing nothing and giving Israel a free pass.

Meh.

This is where the Russians can be credited. At least when they do something, they don't squirm and twist it, trying to find loopholes and opt-out clauses. They just go ahead and do it, and it is a case of "oh, they did it". No need for pointless debates.