Results 1 to 30 of 384

Thread: Israel kills to Maintain Blockade

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    10,415

    Default Re: Israel kills to Maintain Blockade

    The legality of the action seems to be a matter for experts of international law. The EEZ is not a point of consideration, but many other legal arguments are:
    Indeed, I expect international lawyers to have job security over this incident for the next 20 years (that is: if war isn't declared first).

    I was just trying to determine "What were they (Israel) thinking?" in sending black-clad armed men in black helicopters in the middle of the night to a highly=publicized 'relief' ship. I mean: what could go wrong? Is that method of operation the best way to insure compliance with the blockade-inspection of supplies? Or, is it better to do this thing in broad daylight, fully announced in advance, cameras rolling.

    "This is the Israeli Navy. Your have crossed over into Israeli waters. Cut your engines Heave to. Prepare for the boarding of inspection teams."

    Protesters would protest, the ships would be boarded and inspected, then diverted to Israeli ports. No need for anyone to misunderstand the procedure. Authorized supplies would eventually make way to Gaza overland. Contraband would be identified, publicized, and returned or destroyed in situ. Lawyers could argue at the UN and ICC about borders and zones.

    Why could it not have been thus? Was there intel saying there was bad stuff or bad people on-board? Who released the infrared overflight video's (had to be military intel) less than 24 hours after the incident?

    We just don't know enough.

    Yet people are dead. So we have to find out quickly.
    Last edited by KukriKhan; 06-01-2010 at 14:45.
    Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.

  2. #2
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    12,014

    Default Re: Israel kills to Maintain Blockade

    Quote Originally Posted by KukriKhan View Post
    Indeed, I expect international lawyers to have job security over this incident for the next 20 years (that is: if war isn't declared first).

    I was just trying to determine "What were they (Israel) thinking?" in sending black-clad armed men in black helicopters in the middle of the night to a highly=publicized 'relief' ship. I mean: what could go wrong? Is that method of operation the best way to insure compliance with the blockade-inspection of supplies? Or, is it better to do this thing in broad daylight, fully announced in advance, cameras rolling.

    "This is the Israeli Navy. Your have crossed over into Israeli waters. Cut your engines Heave to. Prepare for the boarding of inspection teams."

    Protesters would protest, the ships would be boarded and inspected, then diverted to Israeli ports. No need for anyone to misunderstand the procedure. Authorized supplies would eventually make way to Gaza overland. Contraband would be identified, publicized, and returned or destroyed in situ. Lawyers could argue at the UN and ICC about borders and zones.

    Why could it not have been thus? Was there intel saying there was bad stuff or bad people on-board? Who released the infrared overflight video's (had to be military intel) less than 24 hours after the incident?

    We just don't know enough.

    Yet people are dead. So we have to find out quickly.
    Because macho-men with small penises thinks doing stuff like they have done will make their penises grow.

    Yes, that really is the reason for all the worlds troubles. You know it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    The San Remo declaration i already mentioned above, does make mention of blockade-running.
    It says "Neutral merchant vessels are subject to capture outside neutral waters", ie. not in international waters. Sorry mate, Israel is still in the wrong with this one.
    Last edited by HoreTore; 06-01-2010 at 14:48.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  3. #3
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    In ur nun, causing a bloody schism!
    Posts
    7,906

    Default Re: Israel kills to Maintain Blockade

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Because macho-men with small penises thinks doing stuff like they have done will make their penises grow.
    You really do have a fascination with this, don't you?


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
    How do you motivate your employees? Waterboarding, of course.
    Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
    Down with dried flowers!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  4. #4
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    12,014

    Default Re: Israel kills to Maintain Blockade

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir View Post
    You really do have a fascination with this, don't you?
    You know it's the truth.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  5. #5
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    mayo
    Posts
    4,833

    Default Re: Israel kills to Maintain Blockade

    Hmm in all the confusion this Irish boat is still steaming for Gaza the MV Rachel Corrie.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The MV Rachel Corrie is ploughing ahead with its attempt to deliver aid to Gaza despite yesterday’s attack by the Israeli navy on Gaza-bound ship the Mavi Marmara.

    The cargo ship, which has five Irish nationals and five Malaysians aboard, is due to arrive in Gazan waters tomorrow, a spokeswoman for the Irish Palestine Solidarity Campaign said.

    The vessel became separated from the main aid flotilla after being delayed for 48 hours in Cyprus due to logistical reasons.

    Nobel laureate Maireád Corrigan-Maguire, former UN assistant secretary general Denis Halliday, film maker Fiona Thompson and husband and wife Derek and Jenny Graham are the Irish nationals on board.

    Speaking from the ship today, Mr Graham said the vessel was carrying educational materials, construction materials, medical equipment and some toys. “Everything aboard has been inspected in Ireland,” he said. “We would hope to have safe passage through.”

    Speaking on RTÉ’s Today with Pat Kenny , Ms Maguire said none of the aid ships carry arms and are "purely humanitarian". She said it was necessary for the vessel to complete its mission to assure the people of Gaza the world does care.

    “Their port has been closed for over 40 years . . . 1.5 million people, it’s like the population of Northern Ireland, totally cut off from the world by this inhumane illegal siege of Gaza . . . their borders are closed . . . there is a shortage of medicines,” she said.

    “Could you imagine if that happened to the 1.5 million people in Northern Ireland, the world would be absolutely crying out that this stop immediately."

    Free Gaza Movement activist Greta Berlin, based in Cyprus, said: "We are an initiative to break Israel's blockade of 1.5 million people in Gaza. Our mission has not changed and this is not going to be the last flotilla."

    However, an Israeli marine lieutenant, who was not identified, told Israel's Army Radio his unit was prepared to block the MV Rachel Corrie .

    "We as a unit are studying, and we will carry out professional investigations to reach conclusions," the lieutenant said, referring to Monday's confrontation in which his unit shot activists aboard a Turkish ferry. "And we will also be ready for the Rachel Corrie ," he added.

    Army radio reported the vessel would reach Gazan waters by tomorrow but Ms Berlin said it might not attempt to reach Gaza until early next week.

    Senator Mark Daly, who had been due to join the convoy but was refused permission to leave Cyprus, said the ship had fallen behind the rest of the convoy because it was slower. Passengers aboard it had heard about the attacks but decided not to turn back, he said.

    "After having a discussion among themselves about what to do, they decided to keep going and the last contact . . . was at yesterday evening," Mr Daly said.

    Labour foreign affairs spokesman Michael D Higgins today called on the Government to demand safe passage for the MV Rachel Corrie .

    In a statement, he said some of those on the vessel had contacted him earlier today and had stressed they wanted to avoid conflict and to be allowed unload their cargo to help the residents of the Gaza Strip.

    "The Minister for Foreign Affairs . . . must make it clear that any assault on the Rachel Corrie would be regarded as a hostile act against Ireland and a clear breach of international law that could not be ignored by this country," Mr Higgins said.

    Fine Gael foreign affairs spokesman Billy Timmins also called for the safe passage of the vessel. "The Rachel Corrie should also be granted access to Gaza so much needed aid can get through," he said.
    Last edited by gaelic cowboy; 06-01-2010 at 15:13.
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
    a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.

    Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy

  6. #6
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Forever adrift
    Posts
    5,958

    Default Re: Israel kills to Maintain Blockade

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    It says "Neutral merchant vessels are subject to capture outside neutral waters", ie. not in international waters. Sorry mate, Israel is still in the wrong with this one.
    section V makes no such stipulation, mate:
    Section V : Neutral merchant vessels and civil aircraft

    Neutral merchant vessels

    67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

    (a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
    Last edited by Furunculus; 06-01-2010 at 15:25.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  7. #7
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    mayo
    Posts
    4,833

    Default Re: Israel kills to Maintain Blockade

    Section V : Neutral merchant vessels and civil aircraft

    Neutral merchant vessels

    67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

    (a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
    Uh oh if thats true then we will be waking up to another commando raid on the MV Rachel Corrie tomorrow so. Relations between Ireland and Israel are bad enough as it is what with the passport fiasco and they also have two of our citizens from raid as well.
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
    a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.

    Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy

  8. #8
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    12,014

    Default Re: Israel kills to Maintain Blockade

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    section V makes no such stipulation, mate:
    and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture

    How did you miss that one?
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  9. #9
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Forever adrift
    Posts
    5,958

    Default Re: Israel kills to Maintain Blockade

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture

    How did you miss that one?
    i didn't, they were told not to go, and they certainly resisted visit, search and capture, and seeing as they had searched the other six vessels i find it hard to believe there was not prior warning which must have been followed by a stop.

    where do you want to take this one now chuckles?
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  10. #10
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    12,014

    Default Re: Israel kills to Maintain Blockade

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    i didn't, they were told not to go, and they certainly resisted visit, search and capture, and seeing as they had searched the other six vessels i find it hard to believe there was not prior warning which must have been followed by a stop.

    where do you want to take this one now chuckles?
    ....According to the Israeli army, perhaps. I intend to hear the other side of the story before I make claims like that.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  11. #11
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Forever adrift
    Posts
    5,958

    Default Re: Israel kills to Maintain Blockade

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    ....According to the Israeli army, perhaps. I intend to hear the other side of the story before I make claims like that.
    hmmm, that's not the same tone of righteous indignation you used in your previous post:
    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture

    How did you miss that one?
    realigning your position much?

    ---------------------------------------------------------

    [edit]

    hmmm, after a rash of demands for an explanation on why i believed the EEZ significant in the hour preceding my response, it is interesting to note the silence in the hour and a half since that response...........

    [/edit]
    Last edited by Furunculus; 06-01-2010 at 16:02.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO