Knife Fighting

[Whacker]

*Bashing face on desk* No no no no NO NO NO!!! NOT Aikido. Hell no. One of the most useless "dead" "martial arts" there is right now.

[edyzmedieval]

*Bashing face on desk* No no no no NO NO NO!!! NOT Aikido. Hell no. One of the most useless "dead" "martial arts" there is right now.

Why no Aikido?

[Whacker]

Why no Aikido?

Because it's a joke? Because it's really a cultural study into Japanese society far more than having any real application?

Sure it teaches a few joint locks, but then again so do dozens of other workable martial arts. The problem is that it doesn't teach fighting. I challenge you to find me actual footage of aikido being used in a situation and that works, and not just some lame compliant or semi-compliant LARPery where the ukes throw themselves around.

[Vuk]

Because it's a joke? Because it's really a cultural study into Japanese society far more than having any real application?

Sure it teaches a few joint locks, but then again so do dozens of other workable martial arts. The problem is that it doesn't teach fighting. I challenge you to find me actual footage of aikido being used in a situation and that works, and not just some lame compliant or semi-compliant LARPery where the ukes throw themselves around.

lol, while I do agree with you mostly on this, you could be slightly more respectful about it.
That said, I am not a fan of Japanese bare-hand martial arts. With the exception of Judo, I do not think that they are very practical. As a rule, Japanese martial arts are inferior to Chinese martial arts. I will give it to the Japanese that they have an admirable weapons martial tradition, but that said, so does China. :P Karate/Taekwondo, Jujitsu, and even to an extent, Judo are not really practical for self-defense. First of all, they are all limited to one specialization or another, which means that you are only learning a bit of what you need to know. Second of all, they are lacking the sophistication of a lot of Kung Fu. Even Judo (the only Japanese martial art that I really like) relies on being able to catch or evade people's attacks. Some times they are faster than you, and some times that is not an option. It also relies on them not striking or fighting back as you try to throw them, which is not realistic.
Chinese martial arts are to Asia what Greek martial arts are to Europe. They originated there, and reached a much higher level of perfection. British and Japanese martial arts were never as good as Greek and Chinese.

[Whacker]

lol, while I do agree with you mostly on this, you could be slightly more respectful about it.

I have zero respect for a so called 'martial art' that is completely ineffective.

As a rule, Japanese martial arts are inferior to Chinese martial arts. (...) Karate/Taekwondo, Jujitsu, and even to an extent, Judo are not really practical for self-defense.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

First of all, they are all limited to one specialization or another, which means that you are only learning a bit of what you need to know.

No.

Second of all, they are lacking the sophistication of a lot of Kung Fu.

Complexity doesn't work under pressure. Why do you think there aren't any chunners or kung fooey guys in MMA? Hint: it's not because they're "too deadly", and the "it's designed for the streets" argument is as old and tired as the fools who spout it. MMA *is* the proving ground for effectiveness in martial arts. The only example I can give you of a chunner who has made it work effectively is Alan Orr, and he also cross trains.

Even Judo (the only Japanese martial art that I really like) relies on being able to catch or evade people's attacks. Some times they are faster than you, and some times that is not an option. It also relies on them not striking or fighting back as you try to throw them, which is not realistic.

You clearly don't understand judo at all. None of your statements are true.

Chinese martial arts are to Asia what Greek martial arts are to Europe. They originated there, and reached a much higher level of perfection. British and Japanese martial arts were never as good as Greek and Chinese.

*Brain shutting down* I really don't know where you get this stuff. Especially since you said you did boxing when you were younger AND you did judo for a semester. Oh well. We talked about it in the chat.

[Vuk]

I have zero respect for a so called 'martial art' that is completely ineffective.



Where do you come up with this stuff?



No.



Complexity doesn't work under pressure. Why do you think there aren't any chunners or kung fooey guys in MMA? Hint: it's not because they're "too deadly", and the "it's designed for the streets" argument is as old and tired as the fools who spout it. MMA *is* the proving ground for effectiveness in martial arts. The only example I can give you of a chunner who has made it work effectively is Alan Orr, and he also cross trains.



You clearly don't understand judo at all. None of your statements are true.



*Brain shutting down* I really don't know where you get this stuff. Especially since you said you did boxing when you were younger AND you did judo for a semester. Oh well. We talked about it in the chat.

First of all, I never said complex, I said sophisticated. When I say sophisticated, I mean the technical excellence of the principles and techniques, and the ability of the techniques (when used according to the corresponding principles) to be effective in a variety of situations. One of the most important parts of technical excellence is simplicity. (you know how the old saying goes)
In fact, it is the simplicity of WT that makes it so effective, and that makes me love it so much.
Why don't you want to hear it? Because you know it is the truth? The same thing that makes boxing so effective is what allows TKDist to jump around kicking each other. It is the rules. If you take the rules away, a fight is completely different. Would those MMA guys be able to go on if they got one of those punches to the throat? Would a TKDist be able to go on if he got a kick to the groin? Of course not. There is a massive difference between a combat sport and an actual fight. You should know that. You say that you don't like hearing that argument, but you never explain why it is not a good argument.

I am not an expert of Judo, that is true. In fact, I know very, very little about it. That said though, I have a basic knowledge, and I have sparred with Judoists before, and none of them could use their Judo to any avail, so that speaks for itself in my mind. I once asked one how he would counter a simple straight punch, and he showed me a move where he grabbed my arm and threw me to the ground. I asked him to try to stop one punch, and I got three to his throat and pulled back before he even got his hands up. At least in their class, they do not train to catch fast punches, so how could they ever do it when it counts.
So what, just because I did boxing I have to defend it? lol, I am a little more open minded than that. Boxing is fine, and I have nothing against it, but a skilled practitioner of say, Pankration would destroy a boxer. Pankration encompasses so much more, and (in some forms at least) is not a combat sport. Boxing and Wrestling are not on the same level as Pankration, just as Jujitsu and Karate are not on the same level as WT.
I have seen martial arts like Krav Maga, Pankration, and Wing Tsun work, and I know that they are effective. In fact, I have seen them defeat practitioners of popular UFC martial arts as well as Budo martial arts.
I have heard plenty of people make convincing arguments on both sides, so I am going to go with what I have seen to work, and unless someone can show me otherwise, I am afraid that I am not going to change my mind. Talk is just talk.


EDIT: Oh, and BTW, I have nothing against cross-training. In fact, I do it myself. It does not mean that I think that TKD is more practical in a street fight, but simply because I enjoy its other benefits. The same is true about Taijiquan.

[Vuk]

There is no need for argument! We have all the proof we need right here to determine that Wing Tsun can defeat popular MMA styles (such as Muay Thai)!


lol, seriously though, back to the subject of the thread, does anyone know any other effective styles for dealing with knife attacks? I want to do research into as many as possible.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

First of all, I never said complex, I said sophisticated. When I say sophisticated, I mean the technical excellence of the principles and techniques, and the ability of the techniques (when used according to the corresponding principles) to be effective in a variety of situations. One of the most important parts of technical excellence is simplicity. (you know how the old saying goes)
In fact, it is the simplicity of WT that makes it so effective, and that makes me love it so much.
Why don't you want to hear it? Because you know it is the truth? The same thing that makes boxing so effective is what allows TKDist to jump around kicking each other. It is the rules. If you take the rules away, a fight is completely different. Would those MMA guys be able to go on if they got one of those punches to the throat? Would a TKDist be able to go on if he got a kick to the groin? Of course not. There is a massive difference between a combat sport and an actual fight. You should know that. You say that you don't like hearing that argument, but you never explain why it is not a good argument.

I am not an expert of Judo, that is true. In fact, I know very, very little about it. That said though, I have a basic knowledge, and I have sparred with Judoists before, and none of them could use their Judo to any avail, so that speaks for itself in my mind. I once asked one how he would counter a simple straight punch, and he showed me a move where he grabbed my arm and threw me to the ground. I asked him to try to stop one punch, and I got three to his throat and pulled back before he even got his hands up. At least in their class, they do not train to catch fast punches, so how could they ever do it when it counts.
So what, just because I did boxing I have to defend it? lol, I am a little more open minded than that. Boxing is fine, and I have nothing against it, but a skilled practitioner of say, Pankration would destroy a boxer. Pankration encompasses so much more, and (in some forms at least) is not a combat sport. Boxing and Wrestling are not on the same level as Pankration, just as Jujitsu and Karate are not on the same level as WT.
I have seen martial arts like Krav Maga, Pankration, and Wing Tsun work, and I know that they are effective. In fact, I have seen them defeat practitioners of popular UFC martial arts as well as Budo martial arts.
I have heard plenty of people make convincing arguments on both sides, so I am going to go with what I have seen to work, and unless someone can show me otherwise, I am afraid that I am not going to change my mind. Talk is just talk.


EDIT: Oh, and BTW, I have nothing against cross-training. In fact, I do it myself. It does not mean that I think that TKD is more practical in a street fight, but simply because I enjoy its other benefits. The same is true about Taijiquan.

In defence of all European martial arts, I have to point out that boxing and wrestling are not among them. Both are designed for settling arguments in a non lethal way (though breaking someone's back in wrestling was popular in some places), not combat.

Right, carry on boys.....