What are the Cimbri?

[Frostwulf]

Frostwulf already pointed out that the Romans themselves differentiated between Germanics and Celts. And not only looking at the Rhine but as he pointed out also at culture. As the Romans pointed out Germanic tribes in Gaul and Celtic tribes in Germania.

So it wasn't an regional assignment.

This statement is correct, the classical authors (as well as many modern) made a distinction between the two peoples based on language and culture, not on region.

ah but usage changes over time. you could talk about germans originally in a geographic sense, and over time develop a cultural-ethnic distinction

But in this case we are talking of Romans and from what I have read Germani was not used as a geographic term. The first author who possibly recognized the term "Germani" was Poseidonius, then clearly Sallust when speaking of the Spartacus revolt. The Roman authors did not use Germani as a geographical qualifier. This is what was written which prompted me to respond:

OK, please reread my post above, I didn't actually say they were ethnic Germanics. I slimply pointed out that they were Germanic because early on, that term was only used by Classical authors as a geographic qualifier. Therefore, greater Germania was 'east of the Rhine and north of the Danube,' and those that lived there were seen as Germans. Even the most causal observer will note that the Boii, who were eastern Celts, lived 'east of the Rhine and north of the Danube.' Again a cursory review will clearly demonstrate that the Celtic Boii, who were considered Germans, because they lived in greater Germania, yet they were not unique. However, on the other hand in the paper cited above, which I've looked over, some of the information, primarily outside Faux's particular field, is not well research. Nonetheless, that is not to say that Faux's theory has no merit. Overall, at this time I'm simply not at liberty to; nor do I care to offer up, much more than that.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2444499

As brought out already, 'Germanic' means, to a Roman around Caesars time and afterward, anyone east of the Rhine, north of the Danube. Celts lived there for centuries, but would be Germans if one follows Caesar's misguided terminology.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2489854

The statements that were made above were saying that "Germani"/Germanic was a geographical term, and as I pointed out in these posts:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2492033
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2493091
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2494704
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2496601
Germani was not a geographical qualifier as also pointed out by Dobesch, Drinkwater and Liebeschuetz.

What Frostwulf already pointed out was that as the culture within Germania became increasing more influenced by the Swabians the Romans qualified the term by explaining the difference between what was Celtic and what Became Swabian. When Italic or Tuscian merchants first established trade with this region the Swabian ethnos had no yet formed. They may have only become aware of them by the end of the 2nd century BC. Nevertheless, by the mid 1st century BC they were well on the way to becoming the dominant (still not the only) ethnos in southwestern Germania. In the 2nd century AD the west Germanics (of whom the Swabians were one element) had converted all of southwest, while the east Germanic (of whom the Goths were one element) controlled but never converted all of southeast Germania.

For the most part I agree with this, taking into consideration that there were Germanic speaking peoples prior to the arrival of the Suebi and Ubii.

If Frostwulf didn't point this out, I'm sorry but he was wrong. A devil can always be found in the details. If you can find a classical Greek or Latin text that says that the term Germani actualy means Deutsche please present it with a good English rendering. Thanks

Find me a classical Greek or Latin text that says that the term Germani actually means a geographical qualifier. Germania is the geographic term, Germani is the people who the Romans referred to as being a non-Celtic people. From reading Tacitus you can tell that he was using language and culture as the basis for the term Germani.

OK, what the Romans actually say, is some Celts, such as the Belgae, claimed to have crossed the Rhine into Gaul. Thus they had onced lived in Germania and could be called Germans. However, they didn't actually say they were Germanic vs. Celtic.

Caesar does make a "Belgae vs. Celt" in this case. Caesar from book 2,4 of the Gallic war-"This is what I discovered. Most of the Belgae were of German origin; they had crossed the Rhine long ago, driven out the Gauls they found living there and settled in that part of Gaul because its soil was fertile". He is distinguishing between Gauls and Belgae(which he also does at the beginning stating " In language, customs and laws these three peoples are quite distinct".). In book 2,4 Caesar learns that most of the Belgae are of German origin, but he continues to call them Belgae. Yet if you look at the West Bank Germans, he calls them Germans. In book 6,32 Caesar says "The Segni and Condrusi, who live between the Eborones and the Treveri but are of German origin and so count as Germans,..". Why would he persist in calling the Belgae who are "mostly of German origin" Belgae, yet differentiate with the West bank Germans? If Germani was a geographical term, then why isn't the Volcae Tectosages or the Boii considered Germani?
Also another factor to consider is Caesar's chapter 6 "to describe the customs of the Gauls and the Germans, and the differences between the two nations". Also the Ubii who have adopted Gallic customs, these go to show it's simply not a geographical term.