Creative Assembly....missing a trick?

**vartan** · 07-17-2010, 20:38

Originally Posted by Ibrahim

well, that's what I do, but others want this for real (I didn't know about the thread till long afterward, so I had little to do with that particular request). you'd have to see the main hall for that; there is a petition thread there.

EDIT: you are a developer? of what?

I remember a really long petition to CA, I believe on the TWC, asking for modding tools and an overall more open, collaborative atmosphere with the userbase. I signed onto that if that's the one you're referring to (I haven't bookmarked it so I can't be certain of a match). CA itself is a game developer, I myself am not a game developer in the commercial sense (indie would be more appropriate). But as a developer, myself being a developer outside the video game industry (developers can produce games, texts, etc.; there are many output mediums), there always comes a time when it just clicks

and you realize that the only way you'll get that extra 10 percent if is you work with the people you're outputting to. After all, they are your main feedback stream.

**Ibrahim** · 07-17-2010, 20:49

Originally Posted by vartan

I remember a really long petition to CA, I believe on the TWC, asking for modding tools and an overall more open, collaborative atmosphere with the userbase. I signed onto that if that's the one you're referring to (I haven't bookmarked it so I can't be certain of a match). CA itself is a game developer, I myself am not a game developer in the commercial sense (indie would be more appropriate). But as a developer, myself being a developer outside the video game industry (developers can produce games, texts, etc.; there are many output mediums), there always comes a time when it just clicks

and you realize that the only way you'll get that extra 10 percent if is you work with the people you're outputting to. After all, they are your main feedback stream.

the thread is this: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...TW-source-code . it is indeed specifically about sourcecodes.the other thread I did see, and also approve of.

but yeah, you're an indie? if so, I have some questions about development that I hope you can help with. PM?

**Rahwana** · 07-20-2010, 19:37

yeah, it looks like if SEGA want to let CA relase the RTW source code, they will insist every factions should had an acess to ultra heroic warriors of them, Sonic the Hedgehog!!!!

Now seriously : SEGA indeed made more profit from their console works and action games, strategy games is enjoyable by lesser part of the segments, and modding are only a few in comparison with the bulk market. Of course, the Downloadable content for Napoleon prove that...

**Skullheadhq** · 07-21-2010, 11:57

I don't think that CA or Sega will release the source code anytime soon, here's why:

Reason 1: It will cost them money (time is money) and will give them no direct profits

Reason 2: Cracks, keygens etc will be much easier to make, and especially SEGA will not be pleased by this.

Reason 3: It will give valuable information to the rivals, and could possibly spark a series of commercially developed clones which will be sold based on the information they 'stole' from CA's engine and coding style.

Reason 4: There is no broad demand from their mainstream customers, except for some 'geeks' and 'nerds' there is no need for it, the mainstream just enjoyed it for a couple of days, liked the Roman ninjas and bought a new game which then pleased them for a few days before moving on to the next

Reason 5: The developers don't want people to play and buy R:TW (since they don't really make a profit with the €5 it costs nowadays) and want people to move on to newer games, like Empire: Total War, I believe someone from Activision said something comparable recently, I know Activision is not Sega, but it shows us what these companies think of their consumers.

Reason 6: Downloadable content where you have to pay for is the new trend in the gaming industry, releasing the source code and let people make what they want could potentially show their customers that downloadable content is absolutely rubbish since you can make it yourself, or even better, download a mod which has way more content than your downloadable content, and is absolutely free! This is something the devs don't want either.

I know a few examples of developers who released their source code, like id Software did with Doom, but unlike id, CA and SEGA don't really have the reputation about actually caring about the wishes of their customers, the best example I know is what they did to the EB teams requests for barbarian factions before R:TW was released. So, even if they'll release it (which I don't expect will ever happen) it will not be this year, or the next, but when it is outdated for years and years.

**Julianus** · 07-21-2010, 13:15

Anyone played the wonderful tactical role-playing game Jagged Alliance 2?
When its developer, Sir-Tech if I remember correct, went bankrupt, they did a last generous contribution to its community -- they published all the source code of this game. Henceforth there are several opensource projects worked on them by community members all these years. I have played one of them which is called JA2 1.13, it's really great because the modders, oh they should not be called mere modders now, rather all-powerful developers since they have access to all source code, they can change the very framework, the engine, the AI of the game, and everything else as they wish. I always dream the same would be true for RTW someday, no more "hardcoded"...
Well, since it is clear that CA's games will undoubtedly be less and less mod-friendly, I won't give any of them even a try any way, it might as well just go bankrupt right now and leave us the code.

**Starforge** · 07-21-2010, 16:18

It was Sir Tech and JA2 is still installed on my comp.

For the developer types out there: It seems (from my hardware / project management background) that making your game engine moddable would be the correct way to implement a design especially if you intend to make more of the same type. Short of the usual (project ran in paths other than anticipated, people quit, life happens), why wouldn't you structure your programs in a way that would be easier to make changes which in many ways is would facilitate modding?

For the lawyer types out there: How much does it weaken the value of your Intellectual Property rights if you make a game very mod friendly (but not release source code?) If CA, for example, wanted to sell off it's Total War division, I'm assuming that if the community could already mod the game(s) in whatever manner they wished, they would make much less money from the sale.

Mostly, businesses are in business to make money. Even Valve - which recently released a full playable multiplayer game (Alien Swarm) for free did so (to my cynical mindset) as a good marketing plan to get people onto Steam (which it requires.) Win / Win for everyone and especially the bottom line.