Star Fox- Lylat Wars [Concluded]

[Death is yonder]

Well Secura, right now there seems to be strong connection between you and Beskar.

People don't want to lynch Beskar but instead despite all these things about him because in the event that its a massive fail, the blow will be lessened.

However, people do want to lynch the Star wolf team (which you are perceived to be a part of, I must admit, the link appears to be strong, and don't give the excuse like in your first mafia that its because Beskie is your friend ) on suspicion, because its an entirely probability defying event, that not a single one of you have been targeted by the mafia, there's been nothing in the write ups. Even now, the only attempt on Pigma's life appeared to be a vig rather than ??? or Andross himself.

Does this explain it? I'm not seeing why you're taking offense only to the part where Renata suggests you to be lynched on these motives, rather than responding to the finer details.

Also, I think autolycus should be given the benefit of the doubt, at least for now, while Beskar actually does some useful work and investigate Auto to prove his claims. Make yourself useful Beskar, don't say that "Oh I thought so and so was a higher priority for investigation".

Here's an actual honest chance, that is both legitimate and very helpful to the town's progress in general, if you were to verify Auto's claims.

Note: Even if Auto is lying and investigation turns out that he's cornelian/venomian, be smart about it Beskar. No more of this nonsense where you push people forward to lynch/highlight for kills subtly, or we lynch you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Regarding WEW, I suppose he may be a good lynch. All he's done recently is add fuel to the fire of my concerns about Beskar, perhaps falling in line with what Beskar describes as "mafia intentionally coming after me".

Regardless, a better lynch that Auto I would surmise, unless there is a legitimate counter-claim.

Unvote: Autolycus
Vote: wideeyedwanderer

And Beskar, if you argue about how nonsensical this is, consider how the town gave you the benefit of the doubt once you revealed and laid your cards on the table. Unless of course, you would like to counter his counter claims within reason.

@Auto: Would you mind giving a more substantiated claim? Right now all we're seeing is someone who got put into the limelight simply passing a name to the general public and hoping that will get him through. Granted we'll give you that, but we need substantiation and reason to let you live, other than just a simple mention of a name that appeared a few times in the write ups and may end up just being fluff that was used for mafia to false-claim.

[Renata]

I agree that Auto should give more info to back up his claim. He has basically nothing to lose at this point if he's a town power role, and the only thing he has to gain is to keep us from lynching a confirmable innocent. So spit it out and confirm yourself.

[autolycus]

Very well. I just hope I get some protection after this, because I'm going to be a target. Here's my role PM

"We need your help, Star Fox!"
—General Pepper

General pepper

http://starfox.wikia.com/wiki/Pepper

General Pepper (ペパー将軍, Pepā Shōgun) is commander of all of Corneria's forces in the Lylat System. He has offered Fox McCloud an official commission in the end of Star Fox 64, but Fox refused it, stating that they "prefer to do things [their] way." Pepper became general of the Cornerian army by the time of the Lylat Wars. He had banished Andross to Venom for conducting dangerous experiments while working as a scientist for the army. Five years later, he discovered that Andross was conducting disturbing activity on Venom. He hired the Star Fox team for the first, then comprising of founder James McCloud, Peppy Hare, and Pigma Dengar. He sent the Star Fox team to investigate the situation on Venom. He temporarily resigned in Star Fox Command from being ill, thus making his good long time friend, Peppy Hare, the new and temporary general of the Cornerian Army.

Name: Autolycus
Role: General Pepper
Team: Cornerian Defense Forces
Victory: Town
Personal Objective: Survive the game.
Ability: As long as you are alive, all Cornerian Defense Forces will remain loyal. You are a symbol of hope and leadership to the free people of the Lylat System.
Ship: Cornerian Flagship- The Bloodhound

[Death is yonder]

Looks authentic.

[Renata]

That one part -- there's no suggestion anywhere that the alternative is even a possibility.

[Death is yonder]

Seems genuine though. It doesn't seem like a faked role pm.

Curious to note however, is what information Beskar had on Autolycus.

He presented no information other than: "Lynch Auto! Trust me!"

If Auto is telling the truth, and his abilities seem to insinuate what I think it is, it would provide very strong motivation for Beskar's actions, maybe even the ulterior motives that I suspected.

This is a very interesting situation

[Secura]

People don't want to lynch Beskar but instead despite all these things about him because in the event that its a massive fail, the blow will be lessened.

This doesn't explain why there's a suggestion to lynch someone who is merely trying to interpret things out from the thread (see my accusation of Joooray, even if I did end up being wrong) rather than someone who is, by all accounts, running the show.

Getting rid of me doesn't solve the problem that the Cornerians seem to have with Beskar, and getting rid of Star Wolf as a whole isn't likely to conclude with victory for anyone but Andross.

its an entirely probability defying event, that not a single one of you have been targeted by the mafia, there's been nothing in the write ups.

I agree with this though, and have voiced my concerns about such an outcome; I fully believe that it is being orchestrated by the mafia so that you waste your lynches on us rather than our common enemy.

We should be working together; Beskar investigates the unknown quantities in the list (starting with autolycus), and Peppy begins to do the same (if possible) until we've whittled down the list and everyone's role is known.

Does this explain it? I'm not seeing why you're taking offense only to the part where Renata suggests you to be lynched on these motives, rather than responding to the finer details.

I didn't need anything explaining, I understood it perfectly well, I just don't see the point as I've stated.

Regarding WEW, I suppose he may be a good lynch. All he's done recently is add fuel to the fire of my concerns about Beskar, perhaps falling in line with what Beskar describes as "mafia intentionally coming after me".

I have suspected him for a while now, but I'm constantly being told that he has claimed Cornerian; I still have my doubts.

[Death is yonder]

Strangely fits in an odd way, it makes sense.

The only explanation for Beskar's odd actions is that he had an ulterior motive.

Consider especially how Auto's abilities would make sense to why Beskar really really wants Peppy to reveal to him [Get rid of Cornelian power roles] [Nothing to stand in the way of Cornelians being impressed into Venomians.

I suspect that with every Cornelian pro-town role death, Auto was meant to balance things out to prevent Beskar from achieving his (possibly? Seems like, the idea struck me) secondary/primary objective.

Then again this could be a wild idea, what do you guys think?

[Secura]

That one part -- there's no suggestion anywhere that the alternative is even a possibility.

You're referring to his ability, right?

I remember being told that Venomians were susceptible to conversion (and, as such, I've been weary of neutral claims), but Cornerians too?

Seems genuine though. It doesn't seem like a faked role pm.

That's what people said about Seon.

Curious to note however, is what information Beskar had on Autolycus.

He presented no information other than: "Lynch Auto! Trust me!"

Beskar had a list of people, and he highlighted autolycus as both a low-activity player (seventeen posts over the course of the game) and for the fact that he was an unknown quantity. He didn't have any solid information on him, that was the main reason for the voting suggestion.

If Auto is telling the truth, and his abilities seem to insinuate what I think it is, it would provide very strong motivation for Beskar's actions, maybe even the ulterior motives that I suspected.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting here. :S

[Death is yonder]

I would also like to note Secura, that you've practically all but admitted to being on Beskar's team.

I fully believe that it is being orchestrated by the mafia so that you waste your lynches on us rather than our common enemy.

We should be working together; Beskar investigates the unknown quantities in the list (starting with autolycus), and Peppy begins to do the same (if possible) until we've whittled down the list and everyone's role is known.

I also very curiously note how despite Auto's reveal being in the open for quite some time already before your post, you have not commented on it despite evidently being a member of team star wolf.

Why are you ignoring the implied accusatory aimed at your team in regards to Auto's abilities implied implications to Beskar's demands for his lynch as a matter of trust? It looks terrible for team Starwolf. Really. Especially since Auto's role doesn't look faked.

[Secura]

Nothing to stand in the way of Cornelians being impressed into Venomians.

You have entirely misread this; autolycus' claimed ability isn't to stop people from becoming neutral, it's to stop them from becoming one of Andross' playthings.

to prevent Beskar from achieving his (possibly? Seems like, the idea struck me) secondary/primary objective.

His primary objective is the same as yours; defeat the Big Bad. His secondary, I must confess, eludes me... the rest of the team have differing goals.

[wideyedwanderer]

Except Beskar didn't make that suggestion. The accusations against Beskar are half sensible (DiY) and half so off -base or over the top (you, Psychonaut) that I'm convinced they must be coming from mafia.

And now Peppy is outed too? *sigh*

I would probably lynch WEW today, given Beskar one last chance. But if that's not going to happen, how about instead of lynching Beskar we lynch Secura? She's clearly on his team, but she's not Star Wolf herself. If the team has gone over, wouldn't she be just as good? And less valuable if this is all just a massive townie screwup.

Thanks for your input, Renata, but really, you've done enough already. (Helping lynch Rob64, continuously suggest lynching me, who was supported by Double A to be a Cornerian.)

Dude, I'm a dead Cornerian. Good point, though.

Then why do you continue to try and hinder our efforts? I've said a thousand times since the beginning of the game I was Cornerian. Even team Star Wolf thinks I'm likely Cornerian, despite the fact that I've been vehemently against Star Wolf.

Posted by Beskar a couple pages back:

At a guess though, Wideeye might be Cornerian (Some one in Star Wolf who think so, I however, think it is most likely ATPGood being the townie), I think DIY is Peppy. This would leave Autolycus, Chaotix and ATPGood being the mafia.

Regarding WEW, I suppose he may be a good lynch. All he's done recently is add fuel to the fire of my concerns about Beskar, perhaps falling in line with what Beskar describes as "mafia intentionally coming after me".

Regardless, a better lynch that Auto I would surmise, unless there is a legitimate counter-claim.

Unvote: Autolycus
Vote: wideeyedwanderer

And Beskar, if you argue about how nonsensical this is, consider how the town gave you the benefit of the doubt once you revealed and laid your cards on the table. Unless of course, you would like to counter his counter claims within reason.

@Auto: Would you mind giving a more substantiated claim? Right now all we're seeing is someone who got put into the limelight simply passing a name to the general public and hoping that will get him through. Granted we'll give you that, but we need substantiation and reason to let you live, other than just a simple mention of a name that appeared a few times in the write ups and may end up just being fluff that was used for mafia to false-claim.

DIY, you presented the arguments for Beskar being scummy better than anyone. And then you go and retract your arguments, and turn on me? You presented great logic for the case against Beskar, but still refuse to vote for him, and then you vote for me on a whim? Without even looking at the case? You do realize that's exactly what Beskar and the mafia want you to do, right? I've been trying to support the case against Beskar, because I truly believe him to be acting selfishly and not having the best interests of the town. So when I get lynched and you see that I'm Cornerian, what will you do then? With each Cornerian we lose, team Star Wolf is one step closer to their victory. I'm beginning to wonder if we even have enough Cornerians alive to win.

I don't even care if I get lynched. I don't see how the town can pull out of this one.

[Secura]

I would also like to note Secura, that you've practically all but admitted to being on Beskar's team.

I stated I was pages and pages ago... I don't need to admit to anything, it's obvious.

Why are you ignoring the implied accusatory aimed at your team in regards to Auto's abilities implied implications to Beskar's demands for his lynch as a matter of trust? It looks terrible for team Starwolf. Really. Especially since Auto's role doesn't look faked.

Why can I not have five seconds to reply to a post, DiY? I'm not ignoring the implied accusation, because I genuinely don't have a clue what you're trying to say. :S

[Secura]

who was supported by Double A to be a Cornerian.

Actually, I thought Double A's scan was for neutrality only; if you turn up with "non-neutral", it either means you're a member of Star Fox, one of the misc named roles (Bill Grey, Katt Munroe and such), Cornerian or you're Andross/mafia.

[wideyedwanderer]

Of course XD
but really, i just mean it seems like tempers are starting to flare and thats not fun for anyone

Not really. In what short experience I've had, this seems to be like a normal mafia game. (Except for the fact that ATPG does the bestest write-ups ever.) I'm not taking anything said about me here personally...and I hope no one else is taking anything I say about them personally. Accusing people is the point of the game, after all.

[wideyedwanderer]

Actually, I thought Double A's scan was for neutrality only; if you turn up with "non-neutral", it either means you're a member of Star Fox, one of the misc named roles, Cornerian or you're Andross/mafia.

Yes, it's true, but if you take a look at the case on me (go back to the start of the game, if you like), I think you'll see that I'm obviously Cornerian. Or have Beskar investigate me, and then you'll see what I've been telling you all along. Or just lynch me, and you'll see that too. I've got nothing to hide.

[Secura]

Or have Beskar investigate me, and then you'll see what I've been telling you all along.

He can't investigate anyone if he's lynched though, haha. :P

Seriously though, you're already listed as a known quantity, I see no reason to waste an investigation on you when there's still other players we've got no idea about.

[Double A]

Actually, I thought Double A's scan was for neutrality only; if you turn up with "non-neutral", it either means you're a member of Star Fox, one of the misc named roles (Bill Grey, Katt Munroe and such), Cornerian or you're Andross/mafia.

He's new-ish still, and what I can tell he acts like I did when I was new, but with less spam.

[Death is yonder]

Thanks for your input, Renata, but really, you've done enough already. (Helping lynch Rob64, continuously suggest lynching me, who was supported by Double A to be a Cornerian.)

Hmm okay then. Didn't catch that.

Then why do you continue to try and hinder our efforts? I've said a thousand times since the beginning of the game I was Cornerian. Even team Star Wolf thinks I'm likely Cornerian, despite the fact that I've been vehemently against Star Wolf.

Posted by Beskar a couple pages back:





DIY, you presented the arguments for Beskar being scummy better than anyone. And then you go and retract your arguments, and turn on me? You presented great logic for the case against Beskar, but still refuse to vote for him, and then you vote for me on a whim? Without even looking at the case? You do realize that's exactly what Beskar and the mafia want you to do, right? I've been trying to support the case against Beskar, because I truly believe him to be acting selfishly and not having the best interests of the town. So when I get lynched and you see that I'm Cornerian, what will you do then? With each Cornerian we lose, team Star Wolf is one step closer to their victory. I'm beginning to wonder if we even have enough Cornerians alive to win.

You do notice that I've been basically suggesting that not lynch Beskar, but don't trust him wholeheartedly? Yes true, I didn't look at the case, I was formulating my own opinion based on your actions this round. I admit I've forgotten (if) Double A advocated you as a Cornelian, but its late, and I'm in a hurry.

I don't even care if I get lynched. I don't see how the town can pull out of this one.

Why can I not have five seconds to reply to a post, DiY? I'm not ignoring the implied accusation, because I generally don't have a clue what you're trying to say. :S

Sorry, but I'm in a rush. The location I'm in shuts off the internet at 12 midnight my time, around 30ish minutes ago (you can ask Beskar about it). The only reason I'm still on is that there are still questions unanswered and I managed to borrow a mobile broadband device. [Plus I have a long day tomorrow, more than 5 1/2 hours of sleep would be greatly appreciated].

Well, basically I've been implying that Beskar/Team Star wolf have their own hidden agenda. Your confusion over this matter [secondary goals] likely signifies that:

No.1: Beskar is keeping mum about it
No.2: Not even telling a recruit/core player about his personal goals, evidently something to hide
No.3: Suggests that my accusation of Beskar likely needs to be refined to a personal secondary/primary goal.
No.4: Furthermore, the fact that the team all has differing personal goals increasingly the likelihood that Beskar's was a personal vendetta with Fox that needed to be settled [Hmm odd options]

WEW: In case your still wondering why I'm not lynching Beskar, is that potential fall-out is great. The loss side of the scale could be pretty substantial, yet the gains were hypothetical, as my accusation is that Beskar has a hidden agenda, simply that he should not be trusted 100% on suspicion of working towards his own personal interests. to address the issue of people treated Beskar like a full-blown pro-town role.

You have entirely misread this; autolycus' claimed ability isn't to stop people from becoming neutral, it's to stop them from becoming one of Andross' playthings.

Doesn't really state that explicitly Secura. Understandably I'll have to remain objective when referring to Auto's role, and understandably, I don't have the background information you have. Furthermore, naturally your inclined to choose the option that doesn't damn your team

Its my take on the matter, if you read one of the brackets, its just an idea that popped into my head that seemed to click, because then it would explain why Beskar continually nudged forward pro-town roles, highlighted the replacements (looked where that got Choxorn), and now calls for Peppy to reveal himself, (with so many players alive still, that would be virtual suicide, its unreasonable, considering the only team star wolf member revealed (explicitly) is Beskar, and (highly likely) you. Additionally, it would even explain why Beskar wanted Autolycus dead without explanation, not even citing an investigation, merely asking for trust.

Surely you can understand that from my point of view, the nature of all these coincidences and possible links would give rise to a belief in said conclusion, as it manages to address all the issues IMO?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anyway:

Unvote: Wideeyedwander

Since I apparently missed what Double A said. And I also want to go to bed

Vote: Alexander the Pretty Good

Hasn't been around much, hasn't been WoG'd, unknown quantity too, plus his conformist behavior in the early rounds struck me as odd too.

~~~~~~~~

Meh apologies if these aren't satisfactory enough/doesn't cover everything, but I got a >12 hour day in front of me, and I need to wake up in <5 1/2 hours.

Just leave a query, I'll try and answer when I get back.



Reminder: Beskar, please investigate Autolycus

[wideyedwanderer]

He can't investigate anyone if he's lynched though, haha. :P

Seriously though, you're already listed as a known quantity, I see no reason to waste an investigation on you when there's still other players we've got no idea about.

That's what I've been wanting to say. I also don't see a reason to lynch me, when there are other players out there who could be the mafia we're searching for. But hey, if anyone wants to lynch me, go right ahead. I've made a decent attempt to stop you, so at least I know I did my part. I've got nothing to lose.

[Death is yonder]

In any event in case its not clear (rambling at late hours), my main driving point is that Beskar currently doesn't seem like the best lynch at the immediate moment.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Not much for a plain old Venomian townie to do in a game like this; I've mostly been following what Beskar and Romanic suggested since they seemed to know what they are doing but that's not turned out super hot.

[Secura]

Sorry, but I'm in a rush. The location I'm in shuts off the internet at 12 midnight my time, around 30ish minutes ago (you can ask Beskar about it). The only reason I'm still on is that there are still questions unanswered and I managed to borrow a mobile broadband device. [Plus I have a long day tomorrow, more than 5 1/2 hours of sleep would be greatly appreciated].

It's fine, I'll respond anyway as I feel that your efforts thus far deserve it and because it falls to me to do so in Beskar's absence.

Doesn't really state that explicitly Secura. Understandably I'll have to remain objective when referring to Auto's role, and understandably, I don't have the background information you have. Furthermore, naturally your inclined to choose the option that doesn't damn your team

While I understand your stance, I must stress that Star Wolf has never had the ability to convert Cornerians into Venomians or anything else like that; we were only able to recruit two characters that have been members of Star Wolf at some point.

now calls for Peppy to reveal himself

I believe that this is a foolish endeavour as well.

Additionally, it would even explain why Beskar wanted Autolycus dead without explanation, not even citing an investigation, merely asking for trust.

I don't think that he has any investigation result for autolycus, though; we should know by the end of the night, anyway.

Surely you can understand that from my point of view, the nature of all these coincidences and possible links would give rise to a belief in said conclusion, as it manages to address all the issues IMO?

I can understand everything yes, but as I have said, everything is merely coincidence from my own perspective; I cannot really speak for the rest of the team on that one, however.

[Renata]

Double A did not clear you, WEW. He scanned you as non-neutral. This has been covered over and over again (granted, half the time the wrong way around, but still).

[Double A]

There's at most 3 mafia, so... whatever. Maybe Beskie should scan him if they have a "Venomian/mafia or Corneian" scanner (for clarification, mine is "Corneian/mafia or neutral")

[Beskar]

There's at most 3 mafia, so... whatever. Maybe Beskie should scan him if they have a "Venomian/mafia or Corneian" scanner (for clarification, mine is "Corneian/mafia or neutral")

I am the only investigator.

Seriously guys, this is annoying. There are 7 uninvestigated and three mafia. Also, stop telling me to investigate everyone and say to lynch me in the next breath. I like the comments which go "What have you done Wolf" by people who haven't even contributed to the game, while I narrowed it down to seven suspects. (Even funnier when some of those only contribution to the game was killing their own team members)

Also, when am I meant to be investigating all these General Pepper's, Peppy's, townie cornerians/venomians, or Wog Bait? I do not have seven turns, as we will lose.

Those seven have to die, I don't care if they claim the Queen of England. 3 Mafia are within those seven, so you are either going to have them lynched or killed for the greater good anyway.

Stop flaffing around trying to purposefully lose this game, and get killing the mafia suspects. Stop being carebears.

Only free card I will give is Peppy. General Pepper could easily be a false role claim, the thing is, I don't know. Who do you want me to lynch instead?

Wideeyewanderer - "but he might be cornerian, investigate him!"
Chaotix - "he claims venomian, investigate him!"
autolycus - "he claims generalpepper, zomg conspiracy!!"
DIY - "I am simple cornerian, don't kill me!"
ATPGood - "I am simple venomian, don't kill me!"
hell_hound/miotas - WoG Bait.

Unvote; Vote: ATPGood - invalid vote
If he is not the mafia, I am blaming all you damn annoying objectors, from preventing us from winning the game.

I am going to re-read from the beginning of the game.

[Double A]

Just lynch miotas then.

[civplayah]

Ohhh, ATPGood is Alexander the Pretty Good. I thought you all were referring to a user named Askthepizzagood.

...

[Double A]

I thought they were just complimenting Pizza...

[Beskar]

unvote (re-reading thread from start, in light of new information)

Since people are posting role pm's, here is mine:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

"Can't let you do that, Star Fox!"
—Wolf O'Donnell

Wolf O'Donnell

http://starfox.wikia.com/wiki/Wolf_O%27Donnell

Wolf O'Donnell (ウルフ オドネル Urufu Odoneru), sometimes referred to as "Lord O'Donnell" by his underlings, is the leader of Star Wolf, and rival of Fox McCloud. Fox and Wolf were enemies sometime before Star Fox 64 took place. It is heavily implied that they have a long and bitter history with each other, despite mutual respect. It has been suggested in the comic adaptation of Star Fox 64, as well as his statement when he is getting the upper hand of a Dogfight against Fox in the game itself ("You'll be seeing your dad soon, Fox!") that Wolf was involved with the apparent death of James McCloud- Fox's father (further hinted by his Brawl trophy). When Wolf's team was hired by Andross to take down Star Fox, Wolf wanted nothing but to fulfill his orders and to kill Fox. Star Wolf team ultimately failed their mission, leading Wolf to seek revenge for his own personal reasons.

Since Star Fox 64, his character has changed from being reminiscent of a stereotypical classy and sinister narcissist to that of a stereotypical crude pirate. This may symbolize the fact that he has become less villainous since Star Fox 64.

Name: Beskar
Role: Wolf O'Donnell
Team: Star Wolf
Victory: Star Wolf (Neutral)

As a neutral, your objective is to DESTROY THE BIG BAD. This will help ensure your survival.

Personal Objective: Survival is just icing on the cake, outlive Star Fox.
Ability: You can investigate.

• Don't get too cocky, Star Fox. - You can select one target and scan them.

Team Star Wolf:

The Star Wolf team is a mercenary group led by Wolf O'Donnell. They were originally associated with the evil Andross, and after his demise cemented themselves as rivals of Star Fox. They also dabbled in more illegal activities such as larceny and smuggling.

The original team consisted of Wolf O'Donnell, Leon Powalski, Andrew Oikonny, and Pigma Dengar. However in Star Fox: Assault, Andrew left Star Wolf to avenge Andross and Pigma was expelled because of his greediness. Wolf later replaced Andrew and Pigma with Panther Caroso. In Star Fox Command, Krystal joins Star Wolf but can either stay with Star Wolf or join Fox McCloud depending on the player's decisions. Also, they have massive bounties placed on their heads because of their work. Their main ship is the Wolfen.

Quicktopic: http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/ne80830474j

Partners:

Leon Powalski
Panther Caroso
Andrew Oikonny

Ship: Wolfen

While it may interest you to work with the Cornerians, for your own survival, you know that revealing yourselves is a bad move.