Trapped in Taormina [Concluded]

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I have a very busy week ahead of me, will not be able to post for a few days, i have to take myself out of the game

Was this not a real suicide then?


Night events are interesting. Serial killer seems to be acting like a vigilante, no attempt on Ichigo, a 3rd (and failed) kill attempt.

[Privateerkev]

Hmmm... too many (attempted) kills... did Ichigo lie? or is one of the guy attacked by Ichigo's brother (Haudegen/pever) mafia???

:inquisitive:

I am pretty sure Glenn's murderer was Juliette's brother. It fits with the whole "family" thing.

The guy who entered the other guy's room was probably mafia. (note the use of wire)

[woad&fangs]

It sounds like Crazed Rabbit was killed by the Yakuza.

[Privateerkev]

It sounds like Crazed Rabbit was killed by the Yakuza.

are you saying that because CR's death seemed "cruel"?

perhaps I wasn't wrong about CR afterall...

Then who attacked who in the room? :dizzy2:

[TinCow]

I think the actions are pretty transparent. CR was killed by someone with kung-fu and a sword. That's obviously a hit by the 'yakuza' family. Glenn was killed by the MiB because he voted for Ichigo, which makes the rest of us poor bastards future targets as well. Ichigo was protected by the prostitute. The description says two women, so that confirms that Ichigo is Juliette, since those are the only two female roles in the game.

Finally, there is a random fight between two men. One has a piano wire, which is the calling card of the Carelli family mafia. The other one is completely unknown to us, but can defend himself. There are only two roles not accounted for with this action: the hitman and the Carabinieri. I highly doubt that the Carabinieri would be immune to a hit for balance purposes, but the hitman can ally with either the mafia or the town after Juliette is gone, so immunity to at least one hit seems like it's an acceptable balance for that role. So, my guess is that the fight between two men was the Carelli family attempting to kill the hitman. Because the fight took place in the hotel, it is my guess that the hitman was after Juliette, but was either interrupted by the Carelli hitman or was blocked by the prostitute.

[Privateerkev]

So the Yakuza guy killed CR because,

a.) he did an investigation and found out CR was Carelli or

b.) just felt like killing CR

[woad&fangs]

cruel, and he was finished off by a sword.

also, vote: Curio. I got bored last night and started looking at peoples profiles. You were PMing someone. I then looked at your recent posts on the forum. I didn't find any obvious reason for you to PM someone unless it involved this game.

I know it's pretty flimsy evidence so I'll change my vote if a better suspect is brought up.

[Privateerkev]

he was PM'ing me. we were chatting.

Glenn, Curio, and I had formed a small little townie group to share information and ideas.

But now Glenn is dead...

:furious3:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

cruel, and he was finished off by a sword.

also, vote: Curio. I got bored last night and started looking at peoples profiles. You were PMing someone. I then looked at your recent posts on the forum. I didn't find any obvious reason for you to PM someone unless it involved this game.

I know it's pretty flimsy evidence so I'll change my vote if a better suspect is brought up.

I'm interested in him as well, as Curio was someone who seemed unreasonably suspicious of CR. He's a prime yakuza candidate. I'll look through the thread again before voting.

[TinCow]

Considering that Ichigo's reveal is almost completely confirmed to be true, we can assume that 00jebus really was guilty. Since the MiB, yakuza, and one Carelli appear to have been present last night, and the hitman was likely present as well, that means that 00jebus must have been a Carelli member, since his death would otherwise have removed a calling card from the game. This is consistent with the description in Ichigo's reveal that he was caught with a piano wire. So, we've almost certainly lynched a Carelli mafioso.

One interesting thing to keep in mind from now on is that the surviving Carelli family member now knows the identity of the hitman, though the hitman may not know the identity of the Carelli mafioso. We need to be on the lookout for two things: (1) the Carelli mafioso may try to get the hitman lynched or (2) the Carelli mafioso may try to recruit the hitman. Since the Carelli family is now down to one killer, I think the latter is far more likely.

[Privateerkev]

notice there is a time difference in the kills?

CR was killed early in the morning but the fight between the two men happened earlier that night.

Since we're reasonbly sure 00jebus was Carelli, then CR could have been the last Carelli. He could have broken into someone's room, failed the hit, and then got hit himself a few hours later.

As for Curio, I just don't see it. :no:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Having reread, I don't find curio suspicious. Much of my suspicion of those on the Crazed Rabbit wagon was based on the assumption that Ichigo was guilty and the CR wagon was an attempt to draw fire away from him.

[TinCow]

Since we're reasonbly sure 00jebus was Carelli, then CR could have been the last Carelli. He could have broken into someone's room, failed the hit, and then got hit himself a few hours later.

Plausible, but the same reasoning could also allow for CR to be the prostitute, the hitman, or the MiB. He could also have been the detective or just a normal townie.

[Privateerkev]

Having reread, I don't find curio suspicious. Much of my suspicion of those on the Crazed Rabbit wagon was based on the assumption that Ichigo was guilty and the CR wagon was an attempt to draw fire away from him.

The CR wagon was an attempt to draw fire away from Ichigo, but because we thought Ichigo was "power-town". It was a hunch based on how Ichigo was acting. Glenn, Curio and I decided to try to protect Ichigo. I even PM'd you asking for your help. But people were convinced Ichigo was guilty, and others piled on the band-wagon, so Ichigo had to reveal to save his own life.

Curio was helping us out. :yes:

[Haudegen]

My unrelated 2 cents

Yesterday Ichigo mentioned that he believed Khaan to be the hitman (aka Manfredo). Now that there has been no attempted attack on him this night, this has become a serious possibility.

I´d like to hear from Ichigo why he believes this.

Aside from that I´d guess that the fight in the hotel was between a Carelli and the secret role (man in black). Why would a policeman reside in a hotel room? Another possibility is that the Carelli guy attacked Manfredo, assuming that Ichigo was wrong with suspecting Khaan.

[Privateerkev]

Plausible, but the same reasoning could also allow for CR to be the prostitute, the hitman, or the MiB. He could also have been the detective or just a normal townie.

I am operating off of the assumption that the yakuza would not hit townies until the Carellis are dead. Every turn he delays hitting the Carellis increases the chance that the Carellis will hit him by accident because they will assume he is a normal townie.

Therefore, I find it possible that CR was the last Carelli. It is just a guess but it seems like a likely way for the yakuza to behave. We'll see if there are anymore Carelli style deaths after today.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I assure you, good people, I had no role.

Anyway, I find this hilarious:

Unless something happens in the night report that sheds new light on someone else, you seem to be the best candidate for the next lynch.

Three minutes before we find out I got killed in the night.

Apparently the Yakuza thought I had a role. So it would seem my behavior made them avoid other, possibly pro-town, targets to get me instead. Like taking a bullet for the president.

So I was helpful. :beam:

CR

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Night time speculation is all well and good, but we're kind of left high and dry as far as voting goes. The only person I'm somewhat suspicious of is TinCow but there isn't much there beyond being a bit too cautious.

I suspect our best conversation starter today will be speculation on who the yakuza is based on who would have tried to kill crazed rabbit. PK, have you considered the possibility that one of your "townie" buddies was willing to go along with your plan because they had a guilty result on CR? Or maybe someone who was voting for him became convinced he was guilty and tried to kill him.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Apparently the Yakuza thought I had a role. So it would seem my behavior made them avoid other, possibly pro-town, targets to get me instead. Like taking a bullet for the president.

So I was helpful. :beam:

CR

Shades of Mafia VII, where my wacky behavior convinced the mafia I was the detective ~D

[TinCow]

It does occur to me that we now have a way to remove any doubt about Sasaki. Sasaki was blocked by the prostitute on Night 1. The PM he posted about it indicated that he was doing nothing, which would almost guarantee that he was a normal townie or, at the worst, the MiB. The only reason to doubt him is the fact that he posted his own PM results, which would allow him to alter them from what they really said. However, Ichigo is pretty much confirmed as Juliette and he also knows who the prostitute is. It would be useful if Ichigo could operate as a mouthpiece for the prostitute on this issue. Can she confirm that her result PM from Night 1 also indicated that Sasaki was doing nothing?

[Privateerkev]

I suspect our best conversation starter today will be speculation on who the yakuza is based on who would have tried to kill crazed rabbit. PK, have you considered the possibility that one of your "townie" buddies was willing to go along with your plan because they had a guilty result on CR? Or maybe someone who was voting for him became convinced he was guilty and tried to kill him.

Conversation about CR came about because we thought his 4 small posts were weird. And we were looking at directing the lynch towards someone else because we thought Ichigo was innocent. Everything developed from that.


I assure you, good people, I had no role.

So, why would the yakuza take a night off of his "Carelli hunting" to go after you if your just a townie?

Remember, the yakuza can only kill or investigate. So that means he would have had to stop his investigation in order to kill you. I don't see him doing that if your a townie.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Conversation about CR came about because we thought his 4 small posts were weird. And we were looking at directing the lynch towards someone else because we thought Ichigo was innocent. Everything developed from that.

Ok.



So, why would the yakuza take a night off of his "Carelli hunting" to go after you if your just a townie?

Remember, the yakuza can only kill or investigate. So that means he would have had to stop his investigation in order to kill you. I don't see him doing that if your a townie.

I disagree PK. Look at the role descriptions:


- Gianluca and Luciano : two made gangsters of the Carelli family. They have a stash of illegal nuclear weapons hidden in Taormina. They have to get it out of the place, without witnesses. Since the stash is big and they'll have to use a truck, they won't be able to leave unnoticed under the current circumstances. So, they'll have to kill every inhabitant of the town. Only guilty on investigation when performing a kill.

- Taketsi : one of the most cruel killers wandering around this earth. He's a member of an important yakuza family. His job is to take out Gianluca and Luciano and to get the nuclear weapons out of the place. He is able investigate 2 players each night or to kill 1 player. When killing, he'll turn out guilty upon investigation by the Carabinieri or Juliette. If he doesn't kill at night, he'll turn up innocent.

The carelli's have to kill everyone to get the nukes out. Taketsi also has to get the nukes out. It follows that taketsi has to kill all the townies even though the description doesn't mention that specifically.

[Caius]

Yesterday Ichigo mentioned that he believed Khaan to be the hitman (aka Manfredo). Now that there has been no attempted attack on him this night, this has become a serious possibility.
khaan was killed.

[Privateerkev]

The carelli's have to kill everyone to get the nukes out. Taketsi also has to get the nukes out. It follows that taketsi has to kill all the townies even though the description doesn't mention that specifically.

He does but it makes sense to go for the Carelli's first. Because the Carellis could kill him without even knowing he is yakuza. And it is more effecient to investigate 2 people a night, than kill 1 a night. That would allow him to target the Carellis as soon as he discovers them. I don't see any reason for him to let the Carellis stay alive after he has dicovered them.

Also, going through my PM's, what actually brought CR onto our radar was his vote for Glenn. He went after "one of us". We're a pretty tight knit group and we didn't like that. That caused Curio and I to look at CR's posting record. Based on his record, and the need to get the heat off of Ichigo, we tried to get CR lynched.

[TinCow]

Also, going through my PM's, what actually brought CR onto our radar was his vote for Glenn. He went after "one of us". We're a pretty tight knit group and we didn't like that. That caused Curio and I to look at CR's posting record. Based on his record, and the need to get the heat off of Ichigo, we tried to get CR lynched.

Wait a second. You claim that you were working for Ichigo, but you went so far as to vote for his lynch earlier in the same day. What exactly caused you to become so convinced of his innocence that you switched from voting for him to working hard to deflect attention towards CR?

[Privateerkev]

Wait a second. You claim that you were working for Ichigo, but you went so far as to vote for his lynch earlier in the same day. What exactly caused you to become so convinced of his innocence that you switched from voting for him to working hard to deflect attention towards CR?

Because Ichigo posted this: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1917176&postcount=369

In it, he says, "As to your theory PK I cannot disprove what you say. I can only say I am not a killer."

Something about it seemed very "non-mafia" like. But possibly a "power-town". I didn't want to talk about it on the thread so I PM'd Ichigo with this:

Hi Ichigo,

I suspect you are have a "special" role. I know you can't talk about it in private but I will let you know what I think.

I do not think you are mafia. But I do think you are a "power-town" role. You seem defensive in the thread and it is making people suspect you.

We need to figure out how to get you out of the lynch for today. If you are power-town, I don't want you to reveal because you will surely be killed tonight.

I'm sorry for my part in putting suspicion on you. I will do my part to protect you and fix this.

Let me know what you think. (within the rules of course; no private reveals are allowed)

Kevin


He then replied with this:

You are correct.

My initial weirdness was a test of part of my role. If you look through the thread carefully you'll find out what I'm talking about.

Yes I know I don't want to die yet. That's why I've held off from doing anything like revealing because I'll be killed unless I'm extremely lucky.

I don't mind it as long as you're trying to continue discussions even if it leads to my demise it can only be helpful for the town.

Ichigo

Based off of that, Glenn, Curio, and I tried to save him. I approached Sasaki about it but he was convinced that Ichigo was guilty. So, Ichigo had to reveal or be lynched.

[woad&fangs]

Omanes has been rather quiet...

[TinCow]

Because Ichigo posted this: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1917176&postcount=369

In it, he says, "As to your theory PK I cannot disprove what you say. I can only say I am not a killer."

Something about it seemed very "non-mafia" like. But possibly a "power-town".

That one line was all it took to change your mind from guilty to pro-town special role? I urge you to use more caution in future games. I used that exact same line to hide my serial killer status in Netherworld.

[Privateerkev]

That one line was all it took to change your mind from guilty to pro-town special role? I urge you to use more caution in future games. I used that exact same line to hide my serial killer status in Netherworld.

:embarassed:

but i ended up being right...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Omanes has been rather quiet...

Indeed Vote:Omanes


He does but it makes sense to go for the Carelli's first. Because the Carellis could kill him without even knowing he is yakuza. And it is more effecient to investigate 2 people a night, than kill 1 a night. That would allow him to target the Carellis as soon as he discovers them. I don't see any reason for him to let the Carellis stay alive after he has dicovered them.


There are a lot of townies to kill though, so killing townies is has to be factored in to efficiency. I'm not really sure if there are any real conclusions that can be drawn from this analysis though.

[TinCow]

I agree that we've got way too many lurkers. BananaBob was relatively verbose in Netherworld, but his contributions here have been limited to these (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1914079&postcount=82) three (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1914859&postcount=192) gems (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1917008&postcount=331). His abstain caught my eye the first time I saw it, since he had been happy to bandwagon GH in the first round, but was then proving cautious on the second round, when we actually had a few things to discuss.

Vote: BananaBob

[Csargo]

I was not blocked. I assumed it was me when I first read the write-up, but I received my investigation results later.


Crazed Rabbit = innocent

Andres

[Mithrandir]

I'll join in on

vote:omanes.

I'm no good in analysing and too new to maffia to make any well thought out reasoning...

[Csargo]

Vote:LittleGrizzly I'd like to hear more from him and Northnovas. Both have been semi-lurking, but LG hasn't posted since the beginning of the game iirc.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Let the lurkers get Wogged.

Anyone who doesn't should be focused on the next round but right now this tactic is very easy for mafia to hide behind.

[pevergreen]

In the last 2 big mafia games, mafia have been wogged.

[seireikhaan]

In the last 2 big mafia games, mafia have been wogged.
:inquisitive:
And? If they're wog'd, that just increases the towns chances of winning.

[Northnovas]

Well what do you want me to say? There have been enough analytical post made and read I wouldn't know what to write. So I read (lurk) and vote. I did miss the last vote because I didn't know who to vote for and by the time I got back and read the time limit was up.

How am I doing so far for taking up space. ~D

I don't have the time to analyze and form the facts to support a theory. A Townie can do it just has well has Mafia lurking. Just like some members are better posting an observation then others. :yes:

I admit I am a lurker do I need help for this condition? :clown: :clown:.

Hi everyone I am a Townie my name is Northnovas and I like to lurk. :help:

[Csargo]

It helps analyze you. If you lurk it makes it almost impossible for us to do that. It just seems like you're trying to hide something. I think it would be a good idea to keep an eye Northnovas.

[Crazed Rabbit]

So, why would the yakuza take a night off of his "Carelli hunting" to go after you if your just a townie?

Remember, the yakuza can only kill or investigate. So that means he would have had to stop his investigation in order to kill you. I don't see him doing that if your a townie.

Yes, apparently he would (see Ichigo's post above).

Even in death, I have the last laugh over a killer who lacks style and substitutes amateurish brutality for it ~;p

CR

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

Also, going through my PM's, what actually brought CR onto our radar was his vote for Glenn. He went after "one of us". We're a pretty tight knit group and we didn't like that. That caused Curio and I to look at CR's posting record. Based on his record, and the need to get the heat off of Ichigo, we tried to get CR lynched.

I can confirm this. I was already suspicious of CR, and when we went searching we didn't like what we saw.



Crazed Rabbit = innocent

Seems like we were wrong, but our objective was acheived.

BTW... apologies CR :embarassed:

[Privateerkev]

Yes, apparently he would (see Ichigo's post above).

Even in death, I have the last laugh over a killer who lacks style and substitutes amateurish brutality for it ~;p

CR

Then I'm at a loss.

My apologies CR. :bow:

You were acting weird though. And with my lack of knowledge on how people have acted in previous games, I can only go by how you act in this one.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I can confirm this. I was already suspicious of CR, and when we went searching we didn't like what we saw.

Seems like we were wrong, but our primary objective was acheived.

BTW... apologies CR :embarassed:

Your primary objective was not the same as the town. The pressure on Ichigo caused him to reveal and 00jebus got lynched, a boon for the town. Ichigo's primary objective is not the same as the town, even if they are aligned in a way. If you had succeeded in lynching me without much resistance 00jebus would still be alive and Ichigo would have no reason to share that info with the town.

You're new to mafia, but you should know in a large unique game like this you can never trust anyone. Certainly not a role like Juliette where their goal is not the same as the town. Ichigo didn't tell you guys to go after 00jebus until he was in danger of death, did he?

The prostitute should try and find the remaining mobster and the yakuza. For the town, that is more important than the survival of Juliette.

CR

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

I was already suspicious of CR, and when we went searching we didn't like what we saw.

Key part now bolded for you.

Although I accept that you're probably right.

[Proletariat]

Well, I had a fantastic night of fetishism with the prostitute last night. I need to reread the last day and process the most recent revelations before I can add anything of real value.


You were reading a book that night.

The smell of perfume caught your attention.

"Hi darling, shall we spend the night together?", a stunning hot woman said, her voice the sound of angels.

At first you looked a bit surprised. The visit of a prostitute was the last thing you expected.

The more you thought about it, the more you got excited about this experiment though.

You dressed up like a businesswoman and put on your glasses. You and Angelica played with your dolls for several hours.

All of the sudden, you ask her to tie you up on the bed, blindfold you and throw the dolls at you, as hard as she could. Finally, an opportunity to fullfill this ultimate fantasy of yours.

Every time a doll hits you, your excitement grows.

You don't care about the drooling crowd outside. The walls are sound proof!

When the prostitute finally leaves your room, you hear her murmuring about being the only one left in Taormina with normal sexual desires...

Andres.

[pevergreen]

GH said we should leave wogbait. If they save themselves, they are potential mafia.

Xdeath got wogged in Netherworld. 2/3 mafia got wogged in preschool, the third was wogbait a lot.

[Privateerkev]

Your primary objective was not the same as the town. The pressure on Ichigo caused him to reveal and 00jebus got lynched, a boon for the town. Ichigo's primary objective is not the same as the town, even if they are aligned in a way. If you had succeeded in lynching me without much resistance 00jebus would still be alive and Ichigo would have no reason to share that info with the town.

You're new to mafia, but you should know in a large unique game like this you can never trust anyone. Certainly not a role like Juliette where their goal is not the same as the town. Ichigo didn't tell you guys to go after 00jebus until he was in danger of death, did he?

The prostitute should try and find the remaining mobster and the yakuza. For the town, that is more important than the survival of Juliette.

CR

But we can use Juliette's ability to investigate. It cleared your name btw...

Your word is given more weight due to the fact that your seen by Juliette as innocent.

As for why Ichigo did not reveal 00jebus, he was trying to remain secret. I actually remember now Glenn saying something about Ichigo asking what he thought of 00jebus. We didn't think much of it. We didn't know what role Ichigo had. He was pretty vague but that might have been his attempt at letting us know. Then when you and other townies forced him to reveal, he was able to provide the hard evidence against 00jebus.

[PershsNhpios]

Well that ruined my day.

While everyone else was out peering through Proletariat's window, I was getting my tongue pierced.

Tell me, can I still PM other players? Or is that not possible for the dead?

I can't honestly find any leads on who the Mafioso's would have been simply because I was the one who died.
Obviously, this is because it was a toss up between me, PrivateerKev and other very active - loud-mouthed players.

The main thing is that someone else takes my place and keeps talking, searching and keeping lurkers like;

Omanes

Out in the spotlight.

Anyway, the only use I can make of my post-mortem comment is to confirm PrivateerKev's claim;

I made a small trio with GSC and PK, and we were discussing how to bring a great number of townies together so that we could discuss intentions away from the manipulations and lies of this thread.

Ichigo, Sasaki, and Rythmic were candidates for being brought into our inner circle, and I believe they still are.
I also believe those three players should be a little more open, because we had trouble confirming their inclusion - due to the strange responses we received.

God save Taormina.

[Privateerkev]

Glenn,

Here is the pertinent rules regarding what the dead can do:

the dead are allowed to talk in the thread, but cannot communicate about this game outside of the thread.

no post mortem reveal of role/night actions. no post mortem quoting of pm's, chatlogs or any other non public communication you had while still alive. Paraphrasing, alluding, fabricating, forging is allowed.

I know CR thinks he was killed because we made it seem that he had a role but I have another idea.

What if he was killed because it would cast suspicion on us?

I wonder if the next person I vote for will get killed too.

I'll still vote, I'm just going to have to be more careful.

And right now I don't have any good suspects. There are lurkers but GH has a point with just letting them get WoG'd.

CR was proven innocent.

Prole was on my list but she slept with the prostitute and couldn't have done anything last night.

TS left the game and was replaced by EF. I want to wait and see how EF plays the character.

Omanes is suspicious but I don't have any more than my hunch and the hunch of a few players. He has never returned my PM's but I know he received them because he went and changed his vote in turn 1. He's seeming stand-offish and I have heard that is out of character for him.

FoS: Omanes

[Crazed Rabbit]

As for why Ichigo did not reveal 00jebus, he was trying to remain secret. I actually remember now Glenn saying something about Ichigo asking what he thought of 00jebus. We didn't think much of it. We didn't know what role Ichigo had. He was pretty vague but that might have been his attempt at letting us know. Then when you and other townies forced him to reveal, he was able to provide the hard evidence against 00jebus.

I know, that's the point. Ichigo was doing what was best for him, not the town, and you guys followed him completely.

Glenn, it is wrong to seclude discussion from this thread. The town wins with discussion, the mafia when the discussion is fractured.

CR

[Csargo]

Ichigo, Sasaki, and Rythmic were candidates for being brought into our inner circle, and I believe they still are.
I also believe those three players should be a little more open, because we had trouble confirming their inclusion - due to the strange responses we received.

God save Taormina.

I told PK I wasn't completely sure of your innocence. I am still not.

[Privateerkev]

I know, that's the point. Ichigo was doing what was best for him, not the town, and you guys followed him completely.

Yeah well I thought it would be better to keep him hidden than force him to reveal. I suspected he had investigation powers so I thought it better to let him stay hidden and investigate people. But I didn't know he had evidence against 00Jebus. I found that out when all of you did.

Hind-sight is always 20/20. We did the best we could with the limited information we had. I gambled that we found someone worth protecting and we did the best we could. :shrug:

[Csargo]

I know, that's the point. Ichigo was doing what was best for him, not the town, and you guys followed him completely.

Glenn, it is wrong to seclude discussion from this thread. The town wins with discussion, the mafia when the discussion is fractured.

CR

Yes, it was best for me, but it was also good for the town. Why are you trying to paint me as the bad guy here?

[Crazed Rabbit]

You knew who was killing some of the townspeople and did not share that information. Your goals may align in general with the town, but that does not make the town victory your top goal. Your not a bad guy, but neither should you be completely trusted. This is mafia, remember?

CR

[Csargo]

You knew who was killing some of the townspeople and did not share that information. Your goals may align in general with the town, but that does not make the town victory your top goal. Your not a bad guy, but neither should you be completely trusted. This is mafia, remember?

CR

I can't kill anyone except for the hitman, so I'm hardly a threat to anyone. There is no way my goal could possibly hurt the townie's goals.

[Makanyane]

My unrelated 2 cents

Yesterday Ichigo mentioned that he believed Khaan to be the hitman (aka Manfredo). Now that there has been no attempted attack on him this night, this has become a serious possibility.


Or Ichigo isn't Juliette....

despite everyone thinking this is proved it still smells a bit wrong to me, rather like everyone being conducted by TC in Netherworld. Juliette finding two major roles so quickly is straining credibility - but at the moment I can't figure out what alternative plot might be!


Means unfortunately trying to read entire thread again so will vote later

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

Will be back later, but in the meantime, to (hopefully) generate some activity and discussion...

Vote:Zorg

He's lurking... we'll see if this brings him out. (Plus can't be bothered thinking atm... as I said will be back later).

[Beefy187]

Sorry Andres im hopeless..

Could you WoG me please as I cannot keep up with whats happening and finish the loads of works I got at the same time. You can keep me alive but I doubt that I cant do much except saving my self from WoG

I would return soon as this term finish which is in about a month.

See you again until then

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

So much for that idea... :laugh4:

Unvote: Zorg

...

Vote: Abstain...

...for now...

[Makanyane]

So much for that idea... :laugh4:

Unvote: Zorg

...

Vote: Abstain...

...for now...
that was a quick change of mind - were you expecting an instant response from him? was he even online?

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

Wasn't so much a change of mind as a vote on a whim. Then whilst driving home from uni thought better of it.

Plus, it didn't serve its purpose (ie: generate discussion and activity)

[Ferret]

Makanyane seems to be trying to gain negative attention to already almost certainly pro-town players. I have no doubt about Ichigo's reveal and Curio was one of the ones who helped save him so why are you picking on those two?

vote:Makanyane

[Makanyane]

I wasn't picking on Curio - just asking what he was expecting....

I don't think we should be too complacent about Ichigo's reveal though - last time I thought all the pro-town reveals and secretive pro-town clique were rather too convenient and suspicious (TC in Netherworld) I was actually right btw... (unfortunately I was also then the other mafia)

also the write up of the failed attack last night includes a 'piano fibre', GH was killed with 'fibre wire' - but wasn't the wire meant to be the lynched 00Jebus's calling card?

so what's it doing still around if we lynched right person on Ichigo's word?

[Mithrandir]

unvote : Omanes
Vote: Kukrikhan

Sudden inactivity and a hunch.

[Husar]

Hmm, I find it hard to decide for a vote this round, lots of guesswork and that's about it.
Why is Seamus quiet again? I would have expected him to post quite a bit more, I get a similar impression from Sigurd, he's usually pretty active, let's not just look at people who post a lot but at those who are known as active players, yet keep very quiet here.

[pevergreen]

FoS: PK
Twice as many posts as anyone else.

[TinCow]

Why is Seamus quiet again?

Probably because he was killed on Night 1.

[Makanyane]

Think no one is taking any notice of me about this wire thing so will try again with linkies...

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1916822&postcount=315

He apologised to the lady and quickly went to his room, to use the bathroom and get another shirt. While he was looking in his closet for a shirt, a well dressed man, a fibre wire in his hand, grabbed the General, aimed under his adam's apple and garrotted him. GeneralHankerchief didn't make a sound while slowly dieing, his last thoughts going to the local beauty he just met a couple of minutes ago...

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1917702&postcount=440

While you were picking the lock of 00jebus' room, you heard the sound of footsteps.

You quickly hide in the shadows and you see 00jebus calmly looking around him.

You notice that he has a blooded fibre wire in his hands. He puts the murder weapon in his pocket, grabs his key and quickly enters his room.

00jebus is guilty.

Andres
ergo jebus is meant to be the garotting killer with the wire - we lynched jebus end of day 2 because of the above ^^^

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1918785&postcount=498

A man entered his room. Another man pushed the first one and punched him in his face. While the first man was recovering from the blow, the agressor took a piano fibre, ready to strangle his victim. Somehow, the first man managed to roll on his side. He pulled his gun and pointed it at his attacker. The shot, aimed at the attacker's head, missed.

does no one else think this is a bit odd?

are strangled with piano fibre and garotted with fibre wire really different signs? or was Ichigo fibbing and we lynched wrong person?

or is Andres not using calling cards? I'm having difficulty working that out from the rest - being suffocated (pillow and tongue) recurs, so does being tied up but its not very clear.

[LittleGrizzly]

Sorry for inactivity my friend has left his playstation 3 down my house and i struggle to get off the thing... which is why ive been lurking a few days, back on best townie behaviour

can someone explain what happened last night... i thought the prostitute was with Ichigo but then prole revealed she was with her ?

The paino wire and the fibre wire, seem a bit too close to be different calling cards... how much can we trust ichigo's reveal ? tbh i trusted on first sight but have very slight suspicions.

Proles inactivity... possibly a sign of scummyness ? was possibly blocked last night by the prostitute, looked like andres writing style to me (but someone else is probably better at judging it) so was there a killer off the radar last night ? apart from the one we possibly killed (00) ?

I don't think PK should be voted just because he has twice as many posts as anyone else, it could be a cover trying to seem like a helpful townie but if it is im fooled...

Mith whats the hunch ? the inactivity could just be down to being to busy not a crime in itself...

i really don't know who to vote for... ill Vote Abstain for the moment, the only other votes i could have made would be omanes because of others reasoning or prole for inactivity (which is a crime im guilty off) so hopefully theres something a bit more to work with in a few hours

[KukriKhan]

unvote : Omanes
Vote: Kukrikhan

Sudden inactivity and a hunch.


"Sudden inactivity" = 10 hour day-job. I hope your hunch works out for ya, but I'll tell ya, it's a wasted vote, if you're looking for scum or role-holders.

Did I miss something here: Proletariat reveals that she was visited by the Prostitue, not Juliette-Ichigo. Is there a third female role?

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Vote:Omanes

Keep a eye on a handful of people, active and lurkers, and I kept Omanes on my list.



Maybe Kukri. I doubt it, may be false, but mabybe there is a third women lead?

[LittleGrizzly]

Did I miss something here: Proletariat reveals that she was visited by the Prostitue, not Juliette-Ichigo. Is there a third female role?


this is what confused me i thought the prostitute was with ichigo but she was with prole... unless all 3 of them... ok probably not....

[TinCow]

Think no one is taking any notice of me about this wire thing so will try again with linkies...

does no one else think this is a bit odd?

are strangled with piano fibre and garotted with fibre wire really different signs? or was Ichigo fibbing and we lynched wrong person?

or is Andres not using calling cards? I'm having difficulty working that out from the rest - being suffocated (pillow and tongue) recurs, so does being tied up but its not very clear.

I agree that it seems most likely that 00jebus killed GH and was then hanged. My take on it was that strangling/garroting people was the Carelli signature. The different descriptions of the materials (fibre wire vs. piano fibre) is either simple creative license in describing the same items, or an intentionally slight variation to show kills by the two Carelli mafioso as distinct from one another. I think the latter is more likely.

Andres is definitely using calling cards. As you noted, the wire is re-appearing. Also, Julliete's brother's kills are clearly identifiable. I would expect the yakuza kills to continue in the kung-fu/sword manner. Those all seem to be calling cards to me.

[edit] Also, in case I forget to mention it later, I will be out-of-town this Thursday through Saturday. I will hopefully have internet access during that time and I expect to be able to post, but just in case I am wrong, please do not WoG me while I am gone.

[Mithrandir]

"Sudden inactivity" = 10 hour day-job. I hope your hunch works out for ya, but I'll tell ya, it's a wasted vote, if you're looking for scum or role-holders.

Did I miss something here: Proletariat reveals that she was visited by the Prostitue, not Juliette-Ichigo. Is there a third female role?

And yet when you're called you're here all of a sudden :inquisitive:

Anyway, I still may change my vote if something convincing comes my way. I'm no good at this maffia thing when I read others posts.

Anyway, why a 3rd female role? Prole doesn't have to be female in this game, right?

[KukriKhan]

"Don't WoG me, bro!" :beam:

I thought the same about the garroting thing: 2 Carelli's (one = Jebuz), both using strangling wire. One Carelli is still on the loose among us.

[KukriKhan]

And yet when you're called you're here all of a sudden :inquisitive:

Anyway, I still may change my vote if something convincing comes my way. I'm no good at this maffia thing when I read others posts.

Anyway, why a 3rd female role? Prole doesn't have to be female in this game, right?

I'll be "on" about 1 more hour, then gone for 10, as is my usual daily routine.

Prolie could just be a female townie, with Andres just having fun writing up a lesbian love scene. The issue is, if she and the Prostitute were together last night, then Ichigo-Juliette was not.

-edit-
With the clock ticking down, I'd better make a vote before I go.

Vote: Omanes
The other games I've seen him play in, he's been much more active in the public thread. I fear he's hiding secret scummy-ness. (No offense, old pal).

[Husar]

Probably because he was killed on Night 1.
Oops, I just looked at that postcount thingie and completely forgot. :sweatdrop:

There's still Sigurd though. :whip:


Did I miss something here: Proletariat reveals that she was visited by the Prostitue, not Juliette-Ichigo. Is there a third female role?
Well, it could be that she is a female townie just because she's a female female in which case she would not have a male role which would mean that she is not a male killer and thus innocent. One could call that a slip-up on Andres's part but we could stop worrying about her then. It's just a guess but for now it's good enough to lower my suspicion of her.

I would like to hear what Sigurd thinks, he's an experienced player and dangerous mafioso, if he won't respond I will vote for him.

[Privateerkev]

FoS: PK
Twice as many posts as anyone else.

Stimulating conversation is a service. With so many lurkers, it makes it even harder to keep good conversation going. If my chattyness can help us analyze the situation, I am happy. ^_^


or is Andres not using calling cards? I'm having difficulty working that out from the rest - being suffocated (pillow and tongue) recurs, so does being tied up but its not very clear.

The first pillow was probably Carelli. It was against Semus and he hadn't voted against Ichigo so I doubt it was Juliette's brother. The tongue was almost certainly Juliette's brother because of the "family" reference.

So I think Andres is using calling cards but he is not tied to them. I think the Carellis are using your basic mafia hit weapons. Expect wire, knives, guns, ect...


Did I miss something here: Proletariat reveals that she was visited by the Prostitue, not Juliette-Ichigo. Is there a third female role?

My guess is that Prole is a female townie. (do all townies have to automatically be male?) I think she is telling the truth about the prostitute reveal. If she was lying, the prostitute could just tell Ichigo and Ichigo would tell us.

[Makanyane]

Andres is definitely using calling cards. As you noted, the wire is re-appearing. Also, Julliete's brother's kills are clearly identifiable. I would expect the yakuza kills to continue in the kung-fu/sword manner. Those all seem to be calling cards to me.


I assume the two that mentioned hating / insulting the killers family - which would mean brother killed Makaikhaan and Glenn



I agree that it seems most likely that 00jebus killed GH and was then hanged. My take on it was that strangling/garroting people was the Carelli signature. The different descriptions of the materials (fibre wire vs. piano fibre) is either simple creative license in describing the same items, or an intentionally slight variation to show kills by the two Carelli mafioso as distinct from one another. I think the latter is more likely.


only thing I can't resolve in own head if that is true is who killed Seamus then?

Later that night, a well dressed man entered Seamus room. he took his pillow and choked him to dead.

The experienced killer took his sharp stiletto and stabbed it through the soft bit at the back of Seamus' head, just for good measure.
I thought from role description that hitman couldn't kill anyone else till he'd killed Juliette



am just genuinely confused and hoping someone can convince me we are actually on right track after all!

EDIT: hadn't read PK's post - was typing slowly as usual....
explanation about mafia (Carelli) calling cards being mixed is plausible I suppose - but I'm still not very confident about it

[naut]

Hmmm, it's getting really hard to judge. I need some time to think about this before I make a useful vote.

Vote: Abstain

Tally:

Curio = 1 (woad&fangs)
Omanes = 3 (Sasaki, AntiWarman, KukriKhan)
BananaBob = 1 (TinCow)
LittleGrizzly = 1 (Ichi)
Mak = 1 (EF)
KukriKhan = 1 (Mith)

Abstain = 3 (Curio, LittleGrizzly, Ryth)

[Privateerkev]

only thing I can't resolve in own head if that is true is who killed Seamus then?

I thought from role description that hitman couldn't kill anyone else till he'd killed Juliette

am just genuinely confused and hoping someone can convince me we are actually on right track after all!

EDIT: hadn't read PK's post - was typing slowly as usual....
explanation about mafia (Carelli) calling cards being mixed is plausible I suppose - but I'm still not very confident about it

I'm not sure either but it is just a guess.

I think there is something else we should consider.

We are all assuming that the "man in cloak" is Juliette's brother, but what if he isn't?

What evidence do we have that her brother wears a cloak? None.

We only assume it because we are assuming there are no secret roles. But what if there are?

If there are, then Seamus could have been killed by the real man in cloak.

This is totally a guess but we should not assume that we will know about every role from the beginning. It seems normal in Mafia for there to be secret roles.

[TinCow]

Seamus' death is indeed a conundrum. As PK notes, it is possible that there are secret roles we do not know about at all. I initially assumed there were not, because the rules do not state that there are any secret roles, which most games seem to do. However, I agree that Juliette's brother just doesn't seem consistent with the secret nature of the MiB. If Juliette's brother is not the MiB, then he is not listed at all in the intro post to this game, which means there is at least one secret role. If there's one secret role, there are probably more than one.

So, Seamus' kill could have been done by a role we are not aware of. That, however, strikes me as wrong. If there's a super top secret killer out there, it makes no sense for them to kill on Night 1, but not 2 or 3. If a killer is going to kill, they're going to do it regularly. If they're going to remain stealthy, there is no reason to kill on Night 1.

The only other option I really see is that Ichigo was lying about 00jebus and either fingered an innocent player or altered his investigation results to show that 00jebus killed in a manner that he did not. While I don't completely trust Ichigo, that's just my natural instinct. Everything he has said so far has been consistent with the evidence, and I can't find any real reason for him to lie. So, I have to conclude at least for now that Ichigo was telling the truth.

There's a lot of ifs in this reasoning, but going with the most probable scenario as I see it (no secret role killer on Seamus, Ichigo telling the truth) the conclusion I reach is indeed that the Seamus was either killed by the Hitman, the Carellis, or the yakuza. It would make no sense for the Hitman to kill on Night 1, even if he could, though, because he has that crazy powerful triple investigation ability and his objective is to find Juliette, not kill random people. That leaves the Carellis and the yakuza. While Seamus' death does not match either the kung-fu or strangling style of either, it is at least in the style of a 'classic' Italian mob hit, not East Asian.

So, my conclusion is that Seamus was probably killed by the Carellis. The question then remains whether it was a variable calling card or perhaps there is a third Carelli we are not aware of.

[Privateerkev]

For now, I am very much at a loss as to who to vote for. A lot of the lurkers are looking suspicious. But I don't know which lurkers are normal lurkers and which ones are acting differently from other games.

For now, I'll go with Omanes. Glenn, and others have said that he is acting different. While others don't trust Glenn's judgement, I do.

For lack of a better target, that will have to do for now.

vote: Omanes

tally:

Omanes = 4 (Sasaki, AntiWarman, KukriKhan, Privateerkev)

Curio = 1 (woad&fangs)
BananaBob = 1 (TinCow)
LittleGrizzly = 1 (Ichi)
Mak = 1 (EF)
KukriKhan = 1 (Mith)

Abstain = 3 (Curio, LittleGrizzly, Ryth)

[LittleGrizzly]

tally:

Omanes = 4 (Sasaki, AntiWarman, KukriKhan, Privateerkev)

Curio = 1 (woad&fangs)
BananaBob = 1 (TinCow)
LittleGrizzly = 1 (Ichi)
Mak = 1 (EF)
KukriKhan = 1 (Mith)

Abstain = 3 (Curio, LittleGrizzly, Ryth)


Im probably going to change my vote from abstain to someone pretty soon, but have we got any decent targets ?

Omanes is behaving differently, could be nothing but its something more than we have on anyone else

Makanyane seems to be trying to gain negative attention to already almost certainly pro-town players. I have no doubt about Ichigo's reveal and Curio was one of the ones who helped save him so why are you picking on those two?

the reasoning for the mak vote seems sensible enough

I wasn't picking on Curio - just asking what he was expecting....

I don't think we should be too complacent about Ichigo's reveal though - last time I thought all the pro-town reveals and secretive pro-town clique were rather too convenient and suspicious (TC in Netherworld) I was actually right btw... (unfortunately I was also then the other mafia)

also the write up of the failed attack last night includes a 'piano fibre', GH was killed with 'fibre wire' - but wasn't the wire meant to be the lynched 00Jebus's calling card?


mak's reply, i am also sightly suspicious of ichigo's reveal so mak doesn't seem like the best target

unvote : Omanes
Vote: Kukrikhan

Sudden inactivity and a hunch.


without more explanation of the hunch no reason for KK to be a target, his activity levels seem about the same as capo II where he was a good guy, so explain the hunch to us ?

I agree that we've got way too many lurkers. BananaBob was relatively verbose in Netherworld, but his contributions here have been limited to these three gems. His abstain caught my eye the first time I saw it, since he had been happy to bandwagon GH in the first round, but was then proving cautious on the second round, when we actually had a few things to discuss.

Vote: BananaBob

How does this compare to his usual activity levels ? from the posts you linked his contributions seem rather limited, anything to say bananabob ?

in his defence somebody was saying an abstain vote in the first round was scummy and gives nothing to analyze and maybe he just couldn't think of a good target 2nd round which i can sympathise with

Vote:LittleGrizzly I'd like to hear more from him and Northnovas. Both have been semi-lurking, but LG hasn't posted since the beginning of the game iirc.


im here and talking :) need more to go on than just lurking...

also, vote: Curio. I got bored last night and started looking at peoples profiles. You were PMing someone. I then looked at your recent posts on the forum. I didn't find any obvious reason for you to PM someone unless it involved this game.

I know it's pretty flimsy evidence so I'll change my vote if a better suspect is brought up.

this vote the poster admits is on flimsy evidence, curio was working with glenn and someone else as well so possibly pro-town

I thought it would help to have all the reasoning for votes into one post with my opinion on the vote and reasoning

Edit: post below the votefor curio

he was PM'ing me. we were chatting.
Glenn, Curio, and I had formed a small little townie group to share information and ideas.
But now Glenn is dead...


so thats the reasoning for the pm'ing

[TinCow]

How does this compare to his usual activity levels ? from the posts you linked his contributions seem rather limited, anything to say bananabob ?

in his defence somebody was saying an abstain vote in the first round was scummy and gives nothing to analyze and maybe he just couldn't think of a good target 2nd round which i can sympathise with

I only know him from Netherworld, where his activity level was much higher. However, he did have a role in that game (Doctor), so the disparity in posting frequency and length could indicate that he's just not as interested in this game because he didn't get a role. My vote was mainly to encourage him to speak up. I do not think he is a good enough candidate for the actual lynching.

[Ferret]

you know during the PM Prole quoted it didn't mention she had a female role anywhere, just very strange sexual fantasies.

[Privateerkev]

you know during the PM Prole quoted it didn't mention she had a female role anywhere, just very strange sexual fantasies.

Here is what Andres's report says,


It was rumored that this room was occupied by a lovely woman on holiday.

So, we're assuming Prole is playing a female townie. Like I said earlier, I don't know why all townies have to automatically be male.

[LittleGrizzly]

That whole rumored part made me wonder but further down in andres report

Unfortunately, the women were in one of the more expensive rooms of the hotel...

that seems pretty definite

[Privateerkev]

That whole rumored part made me wonder but further down in andres report

Unfortunately, the women were in one of the more expensive rooms of the hotel...

that seems pretty definite

I think that is describing what the men thought. The men certainly assumed there were women in the room. But there seems to be no actual proof.

I'm not sure why this really matters though.

[Haudegen]

Omanes is active in the Colosseum at the moment. Let´s see if he´ll visit us now.

Vote: abstain

[Privateerkev]

We only have a few hours to go and less than half of the people here have even voted...

We have way too many lurkers...

:no:

[Makanyane]

gah - not getting any more inspiration for this...

so vote:abstain

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Sorry I wasn't here folks - I've been intensively working on Gahzette proof reading. As I said, my apologies for being inactive. Anyhow, back to business:

Quite honestly I have no idea who to vote for this phase. Anybody with the remotest level of suspicion has been killed or lynched leaving us in a risky situation. I don't believe in analysis of write-ups - they tell us nothing about who the murderer was.

Henceforth, Vote: Abstain

[Husar]

Vote: Sigurd Fafnesbane

I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but he is quiet and Omanes just said all suspects are getting killed, which looks like an attempt to kill off discussion, which seems pretty clever and like something Sigurd would do.

Well, he could also be enjoying the summer with his family outside, but on one hand it's the best thing I can come up with now and on the other hand people who want to enjoy the sun should not join mafia games. ~;)

[Privateerkev]

updated tally:

Omanes = 4 (Sasaki, AntiWarman, KukriKhan, Privateerkev)

Curio = 1 (woad&fangs)
BananaBob = 1 (TinCow)
LittleGrizzly = 1 (Ichi)
Mak = 1 (EF)
KukriKhan = 1 (Mith)
Sigurd Fafnesbane = 1 (Husar)

Abstain = 6 (Curio, LittleGrizzly, Ryth, Haudegen, Makanyane, Omanes Alexandrapolites)

Ok, we have just over half of the people alive voting.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Husar makes a good point there actually - I've just taken a look at Sigurd's posts, and I must confess that, although there is nothing wrong with them, they seem to be very scarce. If I remember rightly, isn't he normally at the forefront of the pro-town discussion creating movement? He's also the only mafia veteran which hasn't been killed off yet.

Unvote: Abstain ; Vote: Sigurd Fafnesbane

[Makanyane]

Vote: Sigurd Fafnesbane

I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but he is quiet and Omanes just said all suspects are getting killed, which looks like an attempt to kill off discussion, which seems pretty clever and like something Sigurd would do.

Well, he could also be enjoying the summer with his family outside, but on one hand it's the best thing I can come up with now and on the other hand people who want to enjoy the sun should not join mafia games. ~;)


hmm, well Omanes excuse about gahzette seems credible....

will probably regret this but think Husar might be onto something

unvote:abstain vote:Sigurd Fafnesbane


Omanes = 4 (Sasaki, AntiWarman, KukriKhan, Privateerkev)
Sigurd Fafnesbane = 2 (Husar, Makanyane)

Curio = 1 (woad&fangs)
BananaBob = 1 (TinCow)
LittleGrizzly = 1 (Ichi)
Mak = 1 (EF)
KukriKhan = 1 (Mith)


Abstain = 6 (Curio, LittleGrizzly, Ryth, Haudegen, Omanes Alexandrapolites)

Where did everyone else go???

[Tiberius of the Drake]

Ive been abvsent too much and therefore have no right to make a vote at this time.

Vote:Abstain

[Makanyane]

corrected tally as hadn't seen Omanes post

Omanes = 4 (Sasaki, AntiWarman, KukriKhan, Privateerkev)
Sigurd Fafnesbane = 3 (Husar, Makanyane, Omanes Alexandrapolites)

Curio = 1 (woad&fangs)
BananaBob = 1 (TinCow)
LittleGrizzly = 1 (Ichi)
Mak = 1 (EF)
KukriKhan = 1 (Mith)


Abstain = 5 (Curio, LittleGrizzly, Ryth, Haudegen, Tiberius)


*gah* now less convinced as Omanes went for Sigurd as possible saviour....


EDIT: corrected abstain number and included Tiberius
EDIT2: I really can't count

[Privateerkev]

I would feel bad voting for someone who was busy working on the Gahzette.

I like the Gahzette...

I'll defer to other people's opinion on Sigurd. I don't see anything wrong with his posts but others have.

unvote: Omanes; vote: Sigurd

Sigurd Fafnesbane = 4 (Husar, Makanyane, Omanes Alexandrapolites, Privateerkev)

Omanes = 3 (Sasaki, AntiWarman, KukriKhan)


Curio = 1 (woad&fangs)
BananaBob = 1 (TinCow)
LittleGrizzly = 1 (Ichi)
Mak = 1 (EF)
KukriKhan = 1 (Mith)


Abstain = 5 (Curio, LittleGrizzly, Ryth, Haudegen, Tiberius)

[GeneralHankerchief]

O, the power of suggestion.

Lynch Sigurd, but get Omanes next. A simple post designed to start a bandwagon does not adequate discussion create.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

I would feel bad voting for someone who was busy working on the Gahzette.

I like the Gahzette...

I'll defer to other people's opinion on Sigurd. I don't see anything wrong with his posts but others have.

unvote: Omanes; vote: Sigurd

Sigurd Fafnesbane = 4 (Husar, Makanyane, Omanes Alexandrapolites, Privateerkev)

Omanes = 3 (Sasaki, AntiWarman, KukriKhan)


Curio = 1 (woad&fangs)
BananaBob = 1 (TinCow)
LittleGrizzly = 1 (Ichi)
Mak = 1 (EF)
KukriKhan = 1 (Mith)


Abstain = 5 (Curio, LittleGrizzly, Ryth, Haudegen, Tiberius)



Sigurd Fafnesbane = 5 (Husar, Makanyane, Omanes Alexandrapolites, Privateerkev,{BHC}AntiWarmancake88)

Omanes = 2 (Sasaki, KukriKhan)

Curio = 1 (woad&fangs)
BananaBob = 1 (TinCow)
LittleGrizzly = 1 (Ichi)
Mak = 1 (EF)
KukriKhan = 1 (Mith)



Hate to sound like I'm bangwaggoning, but I did have suspcisos of Siguard at the beginning also.


Unvote:Omanes Vote:Sigurd Fafnesbane

[GeneralHankerchief]

Holy daisy guys, this is like the mother of all ridiculous bandwagons.

https://img258.imageshack.us/img258/5050/emotbandwagonqr2.gif https://img258.imageshack.us/img258/5050/emotbandwagonqr2.gif https://img258.imageshack.us/img258/5050/emotbandwagonqr2.gif

Everyone who jumped on this one, especially the later ones, are suspicious and should be checked out. At least give Sigurd a chance to defend himself. I mean, this is insane.

[Privateerkev]

Gah! :help:

!@#$ it

This round is incredibly frustrating with so many people lurking and just me and couple others talking.

I don't care if abstaining makes me look suspicious or not.

*frustrated*

unvote: Sigard; vote Abstain

new tally:

Sigurd Fafnesbane = 4 (Husar, Makanyane, Omanes Alexandrapolites, AntiWarman)

Omanes = 2 (Sasaki, KukriKhan)


Curio = 1 (woad&fangs)
BananaBob = 1 (TinCow)
LittleGrizzly = 1 (Ichi)
Mak = 1 (EF)
KukriKhan = 1 (Mith)


Abstain = 6 (Curio, LittleGrizzly, Ryth, Haudegen, Tiberius, Privateerkev)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sorry I wasn't here folks - I've been intensively working on Gahzette proof reading. As I said, my apologies for being inactive. Anyhow, back to business:

Quite honestly I have no idea who to vote for this phase. Anybody with the remotest level of suspicion has been killed or lynched leaving us in a risky situation. I don't believe in analysis of write-ups - they tell us nothing about who the murderer was.

Henceforth, Vote: Abstain

I will unvote


Omanes's post contains no mention of the fact that he's in the lead in votes and no votes. I think mafia would care a bit more. I'm not even sure he's read the whole thread from this post. This is either a nice bit of acting or he's innocent.

Sigurd should be given a chance to defend himself.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

!@#$ it

This round is incredibly frustrating with so many people lurking and just me and couple others talking.

I don't care if abstaining makes me look suspicious or not.

*frustrated*

unvote: Sigard; vote Abstain


But do you care about GH's post saying the people on the sigurd wagon should be checked out?

[Privateerkev]

But do you care about GH's post saying the people on the sigurd wagon should be checked out?

Many many pages ago I offered myself to be investigated at a random time as long as the detective protects their identity if I am innocent.

If anyone has any doubts about me, then they should absolutely investigate.

I'm just starting to get frustrated at the participation of some of the people in this game. :shame:

Half of the people's posts in this thread aren't even in the double digits yet.

[Makanyane]

@Sasaki and GH

but who else should be lynched instead??

the Sigurd bandwagon doesn't seem any less logical than the early suspicion on Omanes...

the only other option if we really say we have no clues is to look for the most likely WoG subject to lynch on the grounds they'll die anyway

[Privateerkev]

the only other option if we really say we have no clues is to look for the most likely WoG subject to lynch on the grounds they'll die anyway

Twilight Blade has had only two posts. One to join the game and one to comment on being "invisible". He never voted. He's probably the most likely WoG.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

@Sasaki and GH

but who else should be lynched instead??

the Sigurd bandwagon doesn't seem any less logical than the early suspicion on Omanes...

the only other option if we really say we have no clues is to look for the most likely WoG subject to lynch on the grounds they'll die anyway

I don't mind the sigurd wagon. At the moment he is our best lynch candidate. He has a history of lurking as mafia.

But it's best to leave him only a few votes in the lead, this allows us to change our mind quickly. If he's 10 votes up and posts a convincing defense we won't be able to change to someone else in time.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Sigurd is going to get Wogged anyway unless he posts.

I'd advise seriously examining if not lynching every single person who jumped on the Sigurd wagon. Also, don't let Omanes off the hook just because he popped in at an extremely convenient time.

[TinCow]

Sorry I wasn't here folks - I've been intensively working on Gahzette proof reading. As I said, my apologies for being inactive.

Since I have access to the Gahzette forum, I took the liberty of checking up on this. Omanes has indeed spent a good deal of time doing proofreading of a Gahzette article. However, as far as I can tell, he was only doing that today (May 14th) and on May 6th. He made no posts or edits in the Gahzette forum between those dates. As far as I can tell, the Gahzette excuse is only valid for his tardy post today, not for anything else since this game began.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I wouldn't really say that everybody needs examining GH - the Sigurd bandwagon was the result of nobody any more lynch worthy existing. Although the chances are that at least one of those individuals is of questionable integrity, I don't consider it a scummy offence under these circumstances. I also don't blame the town for sort of starting a bandwagon against me earlier. The evidence from their perspective was legitimate and they had no other details worth considering.

[Privateerkev]

I think I lack the "killer instinct" others have seemed to grow in these games. I admit, I have a soft spot for stories of RL difficulites or busyness. I see how it would be easy to manipulate and I'm sure I'll grow more cold the more I play these games. But I just found it hard to vote for Omanes when he said he was busy. I experienced the same feeling with TS.

I dunno, call it naive noobness. :shrug:

[GeneralHankerchief]

I wouldn't really say that everybody needs examining GH - the Sigurd bandwagon was the result of nobody any more lynch worthy existing. Although the chances are that at least one of those individuals is of questionable integrity, I don't consider it a scummy offence under these circumstances. I also don't blame the town for sort of starting a bandwagon against me earlier. The evidence from their perspective was legitimate and they had no other details worth considering.

Any response to TinCow's latest post?

[Andres]

Day is over, votes will be counted. Stand by for execution.

[Husar]

Lynch Sigurd, but get Omanes next. A simple post designed to start a bandwagon does not adequate discussion create.
If you're referring to my post, it wasn't designed to start a bandwagon, it was intended to make Sigurd post, if I had wanted a bandwagon I could have voted for him right away.
Although I still rather have a dead Sigurd than a quiet Sigurd. :sweatdrop:

[Sigurd]

WHAT THE HELL ??????

Can't a guy have a family and a busy job without crazy rolling over you?
Good job guys... really a good job....

Yeah... Husar why were you out all night on night 1?

Jeeezuuzz!!! and I haven gotten around to read all the posts yet.

[TinCow]

Ehm... I take Sigurd's statement to mean that we just lynched the detective.

[Privateerkev]

Ehm... I take Sigurd's statement to mean that we just lynched the detective.

o_O

I was wondering if he meant real life or game life when he said "all night".

:daisy:

[Csargo]

WHAT THE HELL ??????

Can't a guy have a family and a busy job without crazy rolling over you?
Good job guys... really a good job....

Yeah... Husar why were you out all night on night 1?

Jeeezuuzz!!! and I haven gotten around to read all the posts yet.

I believe you were innocent from our the talk in the chat. If that's an consolation.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Any response to TinCow's latest post?Not really - I was only referring to today's inactivity (I probably should have made myself a little more clear - sorry). I presumed that only today's lack of activity was the basis for all the votes against me and was not aware that it was also based upon any previous actions.

In previous day phases I've had about two posts which was equivalent to one post for each time period I was online. I do consider that fairly low, but I didn't see much else of interest not already covered throughout my time browsing the thread.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sigurd needs to specify that point and the statement about Husar. Technically you aren't dead yet sigurd.*

*otoh I recall saying this exact same thing to him in capo after he fooled everyone with a role claim.

[TinCow]

I was wondering if he meant real life or game life when he said "all night".

Well, it's not a total loss, as it implies that Husar has a role that allows him to do night actions. Looks like someone has some explaining to do.

[Sigurd]

I am not dead yet...
Husar was not home during night in round 1.
Pevergreen was home and innocent on night 2.
**** was not in his bed but probably innocent on night 3.

Remember the Hobo?

[TinCow]

You should probably explain why you edited out that last name, as some of us saw it.

[Andres]

Day 3 - conclusion

https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Taormina_GiardinoPublico.jpg

Taormina - Giardino Publico - 11.00 p.m.

The crow immediately started to discuss. Some voices were louder than others.

At a certain time, the silent Omanes was being accused. The people smelled blood and Omanes was at the edge of getting lynched.

With a pale face, Mr. Alexandrapolites murmured something about reading his newspaper.

Immediately, the crowd turned it's attention to another silent one, Sigurd Fafnesbane. Allthough at the point of getting lynched, Sigurd didn't answer his accusers.

A few heated villagers threw Sigurd at Pino's feet.

Pino looked down at the man lying in front of him.

"Got any last words, Mister Fafnesbane?"

The man didn't answer.

Pino drew his gun, pointed it at Sigurd's head and pulled the trigger.

"Let's hope this was the last one of those scumbags. Good night. We'll meet again tomorrow morning at the Porta Messina.

***

While the people were leaving the public garden, Yaropolk stopped.

"You guys are lynching the silent people. I've never been much of a talker, but I'll be damned if I let other people decide when I'm going to die!" Yaropolk took his gun, pointed it at his head and pulled the trigger. "Idem dito!" Beefy187 yelled and he grabbed Yaropolk's blooded gun. The clumsy Beefy187 however dropped the gun and of course, it went off. Zorg looked at his chest, amazed by the red blood that started to spread on his shirt, he fell down. "Oh, clumsy me," Beefy187 said, nervously giggling. Unfortunately, he slipped and he fell on the gun. Another bystander got hit: TwilightBlade fell down, a bullet in his head ending his life instantly. "Damn!" Beefy187 started to curse. He took the gun, pointed it at his head, pulled the trigger... "CLICK", the dry sound making it clear the there were no more bullets left in the gun. Beefy187 started to cry. "Maybe your time hasn't come yet?", Pino said to him. "Maybe, but I want to die! Why can't I commit suicide? Oh cruel Gods! Why don't you just kill me!" A giant rock fell out of the sky, crushing Beefy187's body. Some of the witnesses swore that they heard a voice saying "As you wish!" right before the rock hit Beefy187...


***
Tally:

Sigurd Fafnesbane : 4 (:skull:) (Husar, Omanes, Makanyane, Warman)

Curio : 1 (woad&fangs)
Omanes: 1 (Kukrikhan)
Kukrikhan : 1 (Mithrandir)
Bananabob : 1 (TinCow)
LittleGrizzly: 1 (Ichigo)
Makanyane: 1 (Elite Ferret)

Abstain: 6 (Curio, LittleGrizzly, Rythmic, Haudegen, Tiberius, Privateerkev)

Not voting : 14 (Caius, pevergreen, Sarathos, Sasaki, Northnovas, Sigurd, axel, Bananabob, Tratorix, Proletariat, Beefy187, Yaropolk, Zorg, TwilightBlade)


Alive (25)

Ichigo
Tiberius of the Drake
woad&fangs
Omanes
Caius
Sarathos
Gaius Sribonius Curio
pevergreen
Sasaki Kojiro
Husar
TinCow
Elite Ferret
Northnovas
Rythmic
LittleGrizzly
Kukrikhan
Mithrandir
axel
Haudegen
Makanyane
AntiWarmanCake
Bananabob
Tratorix
Privateerkev
Proletariat

Killed (5)
Seamus Fermanagh
GeneralHankerchief
makaikhaan
Glenn
Crazed Rabbit

Lynched (3)
shlin28
00jebus
Sigurd Fafnesbane

WoG'ed (2)
Zorg
TwilightBlade

Suicide (3)

Hiji
Beefy187
Yaropolk
***


It's now Night 4. PM's please.

Night will end within +/- 24 hours ((around 22.30 (GMT +2)).

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well, it's not a total loss, as it implies that Husar has a role that allows him to do night actions. Looks like someone has some explaining to do.

Yes...given that the night three result gives a "out of bed but probably innocent" , I have to wonder about the night 1 "not home".

[Sasaki Kojiro]

You should probably explain why you edited out that last name, as some of us saw it.

If they were out of bed and probably innocent then it shouldn't be posted in the thread.

[Ferret]

how come I was in the not voting section?

I told you guys we should have lynched Makanyane, she's always mafia. :clown:

[Andres]

You should probably explain why you edited out that last name, as some of us saw it.

Sorry, Sigurd died and is no longer allowed to discuss about his night actions.

[Csargo]

Hobo?

[TinCow]

If they were out of bed and probably innocent then it shouldn't be posted in the thread.

I know, the question is why it was posted in the first place. Innocent error or malicious intent? Keep in mind that the pro-town roles are not the only ones that can investigate.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I know, the question is why it was posted in the first place. Innocent error or malicious intent? Keep in mind that the pro-town roles are not the only ones that can investigate.

That's true...would be sigurd like. I misunderstood why you were asking him about "editing it out".

[GeneralHankerchief]

Hobo?

Reenk.

[Privateerkev]

Reenk.

Why do I feel like I'm missing an "inside joke"?

Well, at least the WoGs/suicides solved part of our lurker problem.

[Husar]

I'm not sure what to make of this semi-reveal, there isn't even a role PM, since it was apparently okay to post results, what stopped you from posting a PM Sigurd? Keep in mind that faked reveals/actions etc. are always okay to post, even when dead, if I understood Andres correctly. Still, if you were the detective, it should have been easy to copy your role PM Sigurd, making one up however takes a bit more time, doesn't it? :inquisitive:

[Northnovas]

Well I apologize for missing a second consecutive vote. I am not hitting the time zone for this game by the time I get home from work. :embarassed:

[Sigurd]

I'll admit I was a bit emotional before. But there are reasons.
I had to see this hockey game; Norway vs. Canada in the quarter finals.
Logging on the org and finding myself with the most votes.. well I was emotional charged already.

As many of you post hunters noticed, I voted Husar in round 1 after the night. As I understand the rules I can discuss what has been revealed, no?
I have not made claims to any roles, but a quick clue, as I had to run back to the TV to see Norway let yet another puck slip between the legs of the goalie.
Usually Husar will retaliate my vote if I vote him in the first round as he did in Capo... Yet he just let it slip silently.
This might be straining the legality here and Andres is free to edit it if he finds it breaching the rules. I needed more nights to compare results to get a notion of what they said. The last one added a comment of the player's alignment.

I had plans to confront Husar with this, but I was too busy at work and I had to pick up the girls from school and kindergarten, go shopping with the wife... help with the dinner, drive my girls to dance practice, help wifey bathing the girls and get them to bed, watch the game and its thriller first and half of second periods then watch them get shredded in the remaining periods.
And now, I am waiting for Husar to deny that he was out all night in round 1 and that his alignment was neutral at best.

I bet this is the mafia's doing, getting me lynched. You have not seen the last of me. :no:

[Proletariat]

This just smacks of a classic Sigurd mafia maneuver (heretofore referred to as CSMM). He was in the chat yesterday for a bit, so I think he had time to post here. Just a line or two ('hey, been busy with work and family, will try and catch up later') could've brought down his vote tally to a tie with Omanes.

Kinda of an odd lack of survival instinct, for Sigurd tho... I'm puzzled.

:dizzy2:

[Sigurd]

This just smacks of a classic Sigurd mafia maneuver (heretofore referred to as CSMM). He was in the chat yesterday for a bit, so I think he had time to post here. Just a line or two ('hey, been busy with work and family, will try and catch up later') could've brought down his vote tally to a tie with Omanes.

Kinda of an odd lack of survival instinct, for Sigurd tho... I'm puzzled.

:dizzy2:

Sorry to disappoint you. But there was not much at stake in this game.
I was contemplating on doing a crazy townie like in The Godfather II, but CR beat me to it. Can’t say I planed to be a lurker in this game. Funny that you guys got intimidated by it. I am just honing my skills for the next game.

[TinCow]

Well, this should be easy to check up on. Husar's reaction definitly seems like Sigurd struck a nerve, which suggests that the investigation result was accurate in some way. If Sigurd is not the detective, the real detective is probably still alive. If so, that person should contact Ichigo, who can then refer that information to the rest of us. If Sigurd was not the real detective, then his ability to investigate indicates that he was Manfredo, Taketski, or possibly the MiB.

[Sarathos]

If so, that person should contact Ichigo, who can then refer that information to the rest of us
But how can you be absolutely sure that Ichigo is actually the/a detective?

[Privateerkev]

Well, this should be easy to check up on. Husar's reaction definitly seems like Sigurd struck a nerve, which suggests that the investigation result was accurate in some way. If Sigurd is not the detective, the real detective is probably still alive. If so, that person should contact Ichigo, who can then refer that information to the rest of us. If Sigurd was not the real detective, then his ability to investigate indicates that he was Manfredo, Taketski, or possibly the MiB.

I thought Manfredo can only search for Juliette?


He won't get clues about a player's innocence. He investigates to discover Juliette. So he will only get results like "nope" or "yes, you found her!".

[TinCow]

But how can you be absolutely sure that Ichigo is actually the/a detective?

I can never be absolutely sure of anything in this game, but as I said before it seems near suicidal to claim to be Juliette, whether it's accurate or not. Probability dictates that it's the truth simply because it would be insane to lie about it. Plus, if it was a lie, the real Juliette would be majorly gunning for Ichigo in this thread. I see no one doing that.


I thought Manfredo can only search for Juliette?

Yeah, I realized this shortly after I posted that. Sigurd is either the detective, Taketski, or the MiB (assuming the MiB can investigate).

[Csargo]

Well, this should be easy to check up on. Husar's reaction definitly seems like Sigurd struck a nerve, which suggests that the investigation result was accurate in some way. If Sigurd is not the detective, the real detective is probably still alive. If so, that person should contact Ichigo, who can then refer that information to the rest of us. If Sigurd was not the real detective, then his ability to investigate indicates that he was Manfredo, Taketski, or possibly the MiB.

The detective can't contact me. You cannot reveal your role in private.

[TinCow]

A reveal isn't necessary. The detective could just PM you and say "Sigurd is lying."

[Privateerkev]

A reveal isn't necessary. The detective could just PM you and say "Sigurd is lying."

How can he trust it? Can't anyone PM him and say that?

[TinCow]

There's no way to be absolutely certain, but there are ways to make it very likely and to make the risk for a faker too high to chance it. I will explain in detail, but it might take a while and I've got to eat dinner. I'll post it later.

[Proletariat]

Sorry to disappoint you. But there was not much at stake in this game.

Not much at stake? :/

According to you, our detective just died.

[TinCow]

How can he trust it? Can't anyone PM him and say that?

Alright, here's how I see it.

First of all, the only people who would ever send such a false PM to Ichigo would be mafioso. There is no reason whatsoever for a townie or a pro-town role to fake such a PM. Accordingly, we can conclude that anyone who contacts Ichigo in such a manner is either (1) the real detective or (2) a mafioso. This alone makes a fake contact very risky, as the person will be conclusively revealing themselves as having a special role of some kind, which will prompt a great deal of attention towards them from Ichigo and anyone he chooses to share this information with. However, a very daring mafioso could still do it, hoping to establish him or herself in the position of the real detective, much as I took the place of the real vigilante in Netherworld.

So, the question then becomes how to determine whether the person who contacts Ichigo is the real detective or a mafioso. First of all, there is simple dumb luck. If the real detective is still alive, any mafioso who submits a false claim to Ichigo will face a massive risk of having Ichigo receive claims from two or more people. Such a situation would be a wonderful opportunity for the town, as it would mean that at least one of the contacts was mafioso beyond the shadow of a doubt. Such a situation would require first that Sigurd was lying about being the real detective, which would make him a mafioso. That would mean we have already lynched two mafioso (00jeebus and Sigurd), which would make any fake claimer a third mafioso. At that point and with that information, a direct public disclosure of the identities of all claimers would almost certainly ensure a win for the town, because at most it would take 2 turns to lynch the third mafioso, leaving, at worst, the hitman and either a mafioso or the MiB alive. With sheer numbers on the town side, victory looks very good from that point on. So, the only people who would submit a false claim would be mafioso, and submitting a false claim runs a massive risk of resulting in an eventual town victory if the real detective is still alive.

However, we must also consider what would happen if only one person submits a claim to Ichigo. If that happens, it is not in the town's interests for that person's name to be revealed publicly, because it could be the real detective and thus would greatly damage the town while not benefiting it in any way. So, how do we determine whether a single claim submitted to Ichigo is real, or not? Well, fortunately Ichigo and the detective share something in common: the ability to investigate. As we noted before, this ability is only available to Juliette, the detective, Taketski, and Manfredo. We also have to assume the MiB can do it, since we have no information about his abilities. So, Ichigo sets a test for the claimer: he picks a person to investigate, tells the claimer to investigate that person, and they both do so on the same night.

After the investigation, the claimer than forwards his precise results to Ichigo. Anyone who is not one of the above roles will have to completely fake the PM and it should be easy enough for Ichigo to spot because he will have a near duplicate results PM from Andres against which he can compare it. Of the above roles, Manfredo will also have to fake a PM, since he will not get the details that Ichigo would. That leaves only Taketski and possibly the MiB. At this point, it gets a lot less scientific. I've thought about this in detail, and I can't figure out a precise way to determine whether the person would be the detective, Taketski, or the MiB.

From here on out, it would essentially be up to Ichigo to use his judgment to figure out whether the person was legit or not. I would recommend that he discuss the situation with the prostitute, who is pro-town. While this is not an ideal situation, just arriving at this point requires specifically that Taketski or the MiB act as a fake claimer (no one else can do it and get away with it), that the real detective is dead (which Taketski and the MiB could not possible know in advance), and that BOTH Taketski and the MiB don't submit false claims (doing so will result in the double claimant situation described above). This requires not only a very skilled mafioso, but also a great deal of luck, which not even the best player in the world can control. Even if the test were passed, the mafioso would be making a very grave risk that something about his or her behavior would tip off Ichigo and the prostitute to the fraud. Yes, it is theoretically possible to do, but the odds of it happening are so slim that it seems like a good risk to me under the circumstances.

There are couple side-concerns with this 'test', but they can be worked around. First, there is the concern about the claimer being a fake and potentially alerting a mafioso target that they are about to be investigated. However, as the entire purpose of it will be to ascertain the validity of the claimer, not the innocence of the target, we will know that the results themselves are not to be trusted in the first place. All we care about is whether the details and writing style of the results PMs match each other, not whether the investigation itself was accurate. At worst, the target will be mafioso but the results will show as completely innocent with no hint of scum. We then discard those results completely from any decision making on the basis that the target could have known he was about to be investigated and intentionally did not kill. This would also be noticeable if the number of kills dropped at night. Obviously any incriminating results do not have to be discounted.

Second, there is the fact that in order to accomplish this Ichigo has to make an investigation, which means he cannot be protected by the prostitute, which risks his death before he can even reveal this information to the public. However, this scenario is easily overcome because Ichigo knows who the prostitute is. He can inform the prostitute and only the prostitute of the identity of the person who is making the claim. As far as anyone else knows, Ichigo will say that he has not received any claims of any kind from anyone (which could very well be true and is the likely outcome if the real detective is dead). So, the only people who will know that Ichigo will not be protected will be the claimer and the prostitute. If Ichigo is then killed on the same night, there would be strong evidence that the claimer was mafioso and shared the information. Since the prostitute will have this name, she then just needs to get it posted in the public thread in some manner (directly or through a trusted proxy) and poof, one more dead mafioso. True, Ichigo would be dead in such a scenario, but a true pro-town role (which Ichigo professes, despite his side goal of killing Manfredo) would not mind such a death since it would bring us back around to an almost certain town victory through sheer weight of numbers.

Whew... I think that covers it. I may have over-thought this, though, and missed some loopholes in the process. Please point out anything that I missed.

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

I have to say Tincow, that plan seems pretty exhaustive... not fool-proof, but as close as we can get.

Give me a couple of hours while I read it again :laugh4:

[KukriKhan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane
Sorry to disappoint you. But there was not much at stake in this game.



Not much at stake? :/

According to you, our detective just died.

Indeed.

No offense meant to any player. Real life must prevail always, at all times, of course. Things happen. Babies need tending, jobs need doing, hobbies need pursuit.

I guess I'm old-fashioned. When I type "in" in a game-solicitation thread, that says I'm committed to the task proposed, to its end. If I can't fulfill that commitment (on which 39 other people depend, however frivolous the cause) then I'm obliged to explain and withdraw as soon as possible.

Doing so late, or not explaining at all = assumed scum.

Otherwise there can be no honour in gaming.

Sez I: kill teh lurkers. We'll prolly get lucky and snuff a few maf's.

[Privateerkev]

Whew... I think that covers it. I may have over-thought this, though, and missed some loopholes in the process. Please point out anything that I missed.

Wow... I'll admit it is quite exhaustive. But it all depends on one simple thing.

Ichigo has to survive the night.

Ichigo and I have been talking about this and we're hoping the hitman is dead. But we have no proof. We have to assume he is still around.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I don't see why sigurd wouldn't just claim detective if he was the detective. And it's also a funny coincidence that the person who started the ball rolling on sigurd being lynched is accused by him.

[Crazed Rabbit]

*otoh I recall saying this exact same thing to him in capo after he fooled everyone with a role claim.

:inquisitive: Everyone?


I was contemplating on doing a crazy townie like in The Godfather II, but CR beat me to it. Can’t say I planed to be a lurker in this game. Funny that you guys got intimidated by it. I am just honing my skills for the next game.

:beam: I'm just trying to make it impossible for Kommodus to work any of his mathematical witchcraft on me.

Now Sigurd is crafty, but I'm leaning towards non-mafia for him. Husar should be interrogated if he lives through the night.

CR

[Sigurd]

Yesterday was a monster and you guys just picked the wrong time to go for a lurker. Plans were made, but upon execution I couldn’t slip in to the gameroom and wiggle out of the bandwagon playing the tunes of Husar.
As Prole mentioned I went into the chat 2 days ago, but there were only people playing GTA4 there… :wall: not much conversation.

Besides, I wanted to talk to Ichigo. I had also hopes for Husar being there so I could put some pressure on him to see how he reacted. I also waited for the results of night 3.
You may express your surprise that I supposedly lurked. The reality is I was talking to players and especially Ichigo outside this thread, to gather a few clues and planned to go after Husar first. I asked Ichigo if he had investigated Husar and he said no. I then concluded that Husar could not be the prostitute. Now why didn't Ichigo stick up for me during the ordeal last night?

And for the record, I have not claimed the detective role. Chew on that you who claim I did.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

You claimed that you had results on night actions, that the mafia wanted to kill you, and asked if we remembered the hobo (who was a roleblocker). Andres mentions one secret role: the man in the black cloak, who I was under the impression was juliette's brother.

[Sigurd]

You claimed that you had results on night actions, that the mafia wanted to kill you, and asked if we remembered the hobo.

That I did...


Andres mentions one secret role: the man in the black cloak, who I was under the impression was juliette's brother.
That is an assumption I will not make.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

That I did...

That is an assumption I will not make.

Read the intro again:


The man wearing a black cloak, standing at the opposite side of the theatre watched the group of people. He grinned.


makaikhaan went out for a walk in the village of Taormina.

*snip*

The strange man cut the ropes and makaikhaan fell down. makaikhaan died on impact. His killer grinned.


After the disappointing experience, Glenn decided to take a walk outside.

*snip*

Sarcasm being his favourite type of humour, he put the tongue in Glenn's throat, thus helping him to suffocate to dead.

The man grinned.

After each of the kills by the psychopath brother, he grins.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Btw, since it took me far longer than it should have to get all those quotes, here's a reference:

The OP (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1909079&postcount=1)

Night One Results (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1914631&postcount=129)

Night Two Results (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1916822&postcount=315)

Ichigo's reveal (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1917702&postcount=440)

Night Three Results (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1918785&postcount=498)

[Makanyane]

Now why didn't Ichigo stick up for me during the ordeal last night?


that's an interesting question as Ichigo was here and posting
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1919860&postcount=21
at the time the bandwagon was at full height and alternatives being discussed, and about an hour before end of voting.

sure this says something about one of you but not sure which yet

[naut]

That's a lot to chew on. Sigurd could be telling the truth, and I am inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, for now at least.

I am still slightly sceptical of Ichigo, maybe an investigative report by the detective sometime would eleviate the remaining reservations I have about him.

I'm undecided about Husar, further evidence or info really would swing my opinion.

I'm still suspicious of Mak.

Omanes, he either pulled of spectacular ploy, or he's sincere.

Sasaki and a few others seem their usual selves.

Edit: I'll wait to see how the night plays out before pressing further judgement.

[Csargo]

that's an interesting question as Ichigo was here and posting
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1919860&postcount=21
at the time the bandwagon was at full height and alternatives being discussed, and about an hour before end of voting.

sure this says something about one of you but not sure which yet

I had already voiced my suspicions. It would have been extremely hard convince people to unvote Sigurd and I probably couldn't have done it.

[Husar]

I had already voiced my suspicions. It would have been extremely hard convince people to unvote Sigurd and I probably couldn't have done it.
Is that meant to imply that you are reasonably sure Sigurd is innocent? If you are you could at least have said so. :wall:


Saying I started a bandwagon to get Sigurd lynched is ridiculous, I was quite surprised about the number of people willing to jump on it, I actually expected my vote to stay the only one. I explained my reasoning and even said it was weak and only based on his absence, noone jumped on my votes before when I was quite a bit more sure about who to vote for, I also guessed that he could be busy and all of a sudden I'm the evil mafia guy who made a big show to get the detectivesome role we don't know of/Sigurd made up/Ichigo claimed lynched, yeah, sure. :dizzy2:


I still don't see why you didn't post a role PM, Sigurd, copying one takes less time than writing as many lines than you did and the only thing that would stop you from doing it would be that you have a "wrong" one. I remember in Capo 2 you made a really convincing claim to be the hitman, a role that wasn't outlined in the opening post and didn't exist anyway because you were actually a don. I'm not easily going to believe your claim, especially now that you seem to say you weren't even the detective. I guess if you make enough secret hints at being a vigilante or whatever people will actually believe you so you can protect your mafia buddy. :wall:

Well, that's how I see it, being pro-town it would've been easy to throw a PM into your posts but all we get are a few hints in Sigurd's "guess my role quiz" or in other words "use your imagination to fool yourself into believing Sigurd was innocent" quiz, Ichigo's attempts was quite a bit more straightforward and also quite a bit more believable.

[Privateerkev]

:dizzy2: <---- me

Alright, let's try to get a handle on this.

Who is Sigurd.

Townie: Perhaps but why claim a role on your deathbed? Why take another townie down with you?

Juliette: No, Ichigo is Juliette.

Prostitute: No, because Ichigo would have tried to save him since he knows her identity.

Juliette's brother: I don't think her brother has investigative powers. Plus Sigurd and Ichigo have been talking in private. If Sigurd was Juliette's brother, that would be against the rules according to Ichigo's reveal.

Detective: Why didn't he just do a full reveal like Ichigo did? I know Sigurd was busy but it only takes half a minute to Copy and Paste some PM's. Why write the investigation results out?

Manfredo: Manfredo can only get investigation results regarding Juliette. If Sigurd was Manfredo, why wasn't he killing Juliette last night?

Carelli: Why the investigation results? Carellis can't investigate. Is Sigurd mafia and just trying to misdirect us? If he is Carelli, does that mean the "mob" style killings are over? (since we're assuming 00Jebus was Carelli)

Yakuza: Taketsi can investigate. And that might explain why Sigurd didn't want to do a full reveal. Will the yakuza style hits stop now?

MiB: Despite Sasaki's thoughts on the matter, I am not convinced that the MiB is Juliette's brother. What if there is another role out there?

Another secret role: Also possible. Time will tell though if there are more killings.

I guess this doesn't answer anything. I don't know who Sigurd is. But something does seem suspicious about his claims.

[KukriKhan]

I guess most of us are in your boat, Privateerkev (nice summation, BTW).

Sadly, without more reveals, our only other strategy, as I see it, is to wait for the next batch of kills, to see what we can derive from the methods used, victims chosen, and 'calling cards', if any.

Sigurd's rants, though possibly sincere, don't pass the smell test for me. He has proven before to be a master at weaving many lies around a tiny kernel of truth (a great asset in mafia games).

[Sasaki Kojiro]

However, the strike against Husar is that he still has not denied being out on night one. Surely that should have been the immediate reaction. If Sigurd was taketsi he would still have accurate results on Husar.

[TinCow]

There is definitely some truth to Sigurd's claims. Husar has reacted in a manner that only seems to validate the results. Those results don't make him mafioso, but they do warrant further investigation. This applies equally to the person whose name was removed from the list. There are plenty of legitimate reasons for keeping things private, but explanations will have to be made eventually, especially if the town does not start getting more useful information than we have in the past. Even if Sigurd was mafioso, he was lynched through pure dumb luck. With several people claiming, or apparently in contact with, pro-town roles, more solid information of some kind about who is mafia and who is innocent should start coming forth. If it does not within the next couple turns, the odds will be far more likely that we are being played.

[Andres]

Night 4 - conclusion


Warman couldn't sleep. The last few days had been very stressfull and paranoia poisoned his mind. He continually switched the lights on and off, convinced as he was that somebody was watching him.

Once more, he switched on the lights.

"Let me switch off your lights," a dark voice said.

The crashing sound going through his skull was the last thing Warman heard before falling unconscious.

https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/IsolaBella.jpg

When he woke up, he found himself in chains. He noticed that a few bags filled with stones were attached on his legs. He heard the sound of an engine. Few minutes later, Warman was hanging on a rope, above the sea, watching Isola Bella.

He tried to say something, but the fear had a firm grasp on his throat and he couldn't produce a single word.

"Nobody insults my family. Time for you to swim."

A click and all of the sudden Warman fell in the water.

His attacker was dressed in a diving suit and he jumped into the water. While he was watching Warman drowning, the man grinned.

***

TinCow was in his room, reading a magazine.

The smell of perfume caught his attention.

"Hi honey, wanna have some fun tonight?"

TinCow dropped his magazine, staring at the stunning beauty entering his room.

"I will fullfill all your desires," the prostitute said.

"I can ask whatever I want?", TinCow said, not believing how lucky he was.

She giggled.

"Yes!" TinCow yelled, excited. "Come over here, help me with this!"

"But, that's illegal!" the esteemed lady said.

"I know, I know, but who cares? Besides, isn't prostitution illegal as well?"

She shrugged.

30 minutes later, both were staring at the inflatable cross, hanging in the room. "Can you glue me on the cross? And glue these feathers on my chest. Oh, and the wig, don't forget the wig."

"Are you sure?" the prostitute asked, feeling a bit disturbed about the extragavant wishes of her client.

"Oh, come on, please. This is all I ever dreamt off."

"Ok, then..."

TinCow was happy. Being glued on an inflatable cross, feathers glued on his chest and a wig upside down his head was close to his ultimate fantasy. When the prostitute finally gave him the pencil, he started to wave it at her (being glued, he couldn't hit her.) Every time he moved the pencil, the prostitute produced little screams.

They didn't notice the man standing behind TinCow. A high kick on the cross made it fall down. Glued on the cross, TinCow could only stare at the silent, dark figure who jumped to him, another kick hitting TinCow in the face. The man prepared himself for the finishing blow, when he saw the back of the stunning beauty.

"Oh my..." he murmured. Angelica turned around. Afraid of being recognised, the man jumped back into the shadows and climbed back through the window through which he had entered the room.

***

Kukrikhan couldn't sleep either. He left his hotel room and went to the bar. Unfortunately, the bar was closed. Since nobody was there, he grabbed a bottle of Vino alla Mandorla and he decided to walk to the beach.

Walking down one of the narrow streets of Taormina, he was worrying about the past events.

"I hope I'll survive this nightmare", he said to himself. "I shouldn't walk too far. I'd better emtpy this bottle and go back to sleep."

He turned around and saw a man, weilding a tommy gun. The blasting salvo right in Kukrikhan's chest ended his life quickly.

The killer left the scene.

***
Ichigo left the hotel room, because there was still some unfinished business to attend.

While standing in the hall, a man walked up to Ichigo, carrying a handgun. The cold professional didn't say a word, pointed the gun at Ichigo and pulled the trigger.

Ichigo fell down. The killer ended the job with two shots in the head and one extra in the chest.

The killer ensured himself that there had been no witnesses and disappeared again in the shadows.

***

***

https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Taormina-PortaMessina.jpg

Porta Messina - Taormina - 7 a.m.

"Good morning, ladies and gentlemen", Pino said to the gathered crowd.

"I'm afraid I have some bad news. I found several bodies early this morning. Warman, Kukrikhan and Ichigo have been found dead. And allthough prostitution is still a crime here in Taormina, I believe mister TinCow is probably very happy that he spent last night with a lady of questionable morality. Unfortunately did he nor the lady in question recognise the attacker. So I guess it comes down to voting. Again."

Pino sighed, he was getting desperate.


Alive (22)

Tiberius of the Drake
woad&fangs
Omanes
Caius
Sarathos
Gaius Sribonius Curio
pevergreen
Sasaki Kojiro
Husar
TinCow
Elite Ferret
Northnovas
Rythmic
LittleGrizzly
Mithrandir
axel
Haudegen
Makanyane
Bananabob
Tratorix
Privateerkev
Proletariat

Killed (8)
Seamus Fermanagh
GeneralHankerchief
makaikhaan
Glenn
Crazed Rabbit
Ichigo
Kukrikhan
AntiWarmanCake

Lynched (3)
shlin28
00jebus
Sigurd Fafnesbane

WoG'ed (2)
Zorg
TwilightBlade

Suicide (3)

Hiji
Beefy187
Yaropolk
***


It's now Day. You can start voting. Day will last for +/- 25 hours.

[seireikhaan]

Afraid of being recognised, the man jumped back into the shadows and climbed back through the window through which he had entered the room.
This I find interesting... had the prostitute already visited this man? My suspicion goes to Sasaki, I think he's gotta be lynched.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Son of A Hitchhitcker.:laugh4:


I was drowned, but I can swim! Oh well:laugh4:

[Privateerkev]

This I find interesting... had the prostitute already visited this man? My suspicion goes to Sasaki, I think he's gotta be lynched.

Wouldn't any killer be afraid of being recognized? This is a small town.

I'm far more interested in the fact that Manfredo is indeed alive. Why did he kill on N4 and not N3 when everyone knew Juliette's identity?

If you recall, the prostitute was sleeping with Proletariat on N3.

FoS: Proletariat

[Sasaki Kojiro]

This I find interesting... had the prostitute already visited this man? My suspicion goes to Sasaki, I think he's gotta be lynched.


I believe mister TinCow is probably very happy that he spent last night with a lady of questionable morality. Unfortunately did he nor the lady in question recognise the attacker.



I find it interesting that manfredo didn't kill ichigo last night. Also, it appears th grinning killer isn't limited to killing those who voted in the same round.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

If you recall, the prostitute was sleeping with Proletariat on N3.

FoS: Proletariat

Prole posted a write up which had her staying at home. The prostitute would have known she was lying if she was. I was thinking more along the lines of someone who wasn't present yesterday.

[Privateerkev]

Prole posted a write up which had her staying at home. The prostitute would have known she was lying if she was. I was thinking more along the lines of someone who wasn't present yesterday.

Ah ok.

Who wasn't around?

[KukriKhan]

Well at least it ended on a fine Italian beach with a bottle of good wine.

[Makanyane]

something has occured to me about Manfredo - slightly too late unfortunately....

did he maybe have to investigate Ichigo to get confirmation that he was actually she, before being able to make kill?

fact that Ichigo is now dead does make me somewhat sorry for doubting before :embarassed:

[Privateerkev]

Well at least it ended on a fine Italian beach with a bottle of good wine.

It was certainly violent. I think we can assume it was a Carelli who did it.

The attempted hit on TC involved a "high kick". My guess would be yakuza.

Juliette's brother is obviously still around.

And it looks like Manfredo found Juliette.

So, I will ask again, who is Sigurd?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I think the thing of prime importance today is an explanation from Husar.

[Northnovas]

Just to clarify from TC's incident (adventure :beam:) he was actually a target that night but was protected because he was with the prostitute?

[Makanyane]

Just to clarify from TC's incident (adventure :beam:) he was actually a target that night but was protected because he was with the prostitute?
yep looks like that

[Privateerkev]

I suspect axel might be Juliette's brother.

He has never voted. And he has not said a single word since sign-ups closed.

Yet he has not been WoG'd, when others have. Why?

vote: axel

[pevergreen]

Vote: Axel

[woad&fangs]

Vote: Pevergreen
You have yet to contribute any real discussion to the game. You also attacked Pkev for having a large number of posts even though is posting habits have already been discussed at length and found to be perfectly normal for him.

[Privateerkev]

Here is Juliette's brother's hit list:

makaikhaan: dead
Glenn: dead
pevergreen
Crazed Rabbit: dead
Sasaki Kojiro
Husar
TinCow
00jebus: dead
Haudegen
AntiWarmanCake: dead
Privateerkev

Anyone who is alive and on this list has a vested interest in helping me find this guy.

Of everyone still alive, only two people have never voted. Sarathos and axel. But Sarathos at least talks so it makes sense that he hasn't been WoG'd yet.

axel's continued presence in the game makes no sense unless he has a role.

:no:

[LittleGrizzly]

axel's continued presence in the game makes no sense unless he has a role.

Thats good enough for me

Vote Axel

[woad&fangs]

axel will soon be WoG'd. If he returns and votes then we lynch him. It appears that he is inactive yet all known baddies made or attempted kills last night.

[GeneralHankerchief]

axel will soon be WoG'd. If he returns and votes then we lynch him. It appears that he is inactive yet all known baddies made or attempted kills last night.

Thankyouthankyouthankyou!

Finally, someone who is speaking sense!

Concentrate on those who are active.

[Husar]

Ah great, without a wonder the town is pretty much dead now. :no:
Yes, that's all I have to say for now.

[Privateerkev]

axel will soon be WoG'd. If he returns and votes then we lynch him. It appears that he is inactive yet all known baddies made or attempted kills last night.

But if he doesn't get WoG'd, and he is the SK, then he will kill again.

Twilight Blade never talked after sign-ups, and never voted. He got WoG'd.

Zorg actually talked after sign-ups a couple times but never voted. He got WoG'd.

Axel has been online, but has never voted, and has said absolutely nothing since sign-ups ended. Yet he somehow gets a pass.

No...

Something really smells here.

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

While I believe that PK may have a valid point regarding Axel, lets not get carried away here. At this moment in time it is all speculation. If everybody votes for him and then more evidence regarding someone else comes to light, this other person may escape if enough people who voted Axel are offline.

Vote: Husar

To highlight that while everyone else has jumped on the Axel bandwagon (well it kind of is), Husar has yet to come up with an explanation for why he was out of his room on Night One. While everything Sigurd said is suspect, this information still needs to be assessed and used. Everything is evidence. I'll now go back and investigate further, and would like to hear from Husar, so I may change my vote. But for now Husar has a 'Please Explain'.

[Northnovas]

PK has made a good observation with Axel's activity but there have been several request made to Husar to explain himself and he has made no attempt but in his post.

Vote: Husar

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Ah great, without a wonder the town is pretty much dead now. :no:
Yes, that's all I have to say for now.

That's not good enough husar.

Some valid points about axel. In pre school Zorg lurked tons, didn't get WoG'd, and came back in the later rounds, avoiding lynch for some time. We may say now that we are going to lynch him when he comes back but in practice we move on to other things.

However, Husar needs to step up. Vote:Husar

[naut]

Husar is a bad vote, more thoughts to come in a second. (Need to charge my laptop).

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

:laugh4: And yet another small bandwagon. I await Rythmic's thoughts with interest, but before we get carried away...
Unvote:Husar

But I maintain a FOS on him (Husar) until further notice.

[Privateerkev]

The Husar votes are based off of Sigurd's lies.

Something felt very scummy about Sigurd. But, there was one yakuza and one Carelli style hit last night. As well as Manfredo and Juliette's brother.

So I don't know who Sigurd was but I do not trust him.

[pevergreen]

Twilightblade is very sick as of now. We (his friends) do not know what it is. We havent spoken to him for nearly a week.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Husar is a darn good vote. We need a full explanation from him.

Also, seeing as the hitman killed Juliette, we should see if he will join the town. After all, he's now in the same boat as the rest of us; a target of the mafia and yakuza and Juliette's brother wants him dead.

CR

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

The Husar votes are based off of Sigurd's lies.


Strong opinion, but have they been conclusively proven lies? Husar hasn't made any effort to explain himself despite repeated demands to do so, not even going so far as to say "its all a fithy lie".

There is something not quite right about Sigurd, but to dismiss his evidence out of hand would be ridiculous.

[Privateerkev]

Fine. I had hoped to avoid this but I need to do it.

The third entry on Sigurd's little list was me. And I know for a fact that it is a lie.

It says I was out of the room but innocent. That infers that I have a "power-town" role. I don't. I'm just a townie.

Therefore, I do not trust anything else he said. He just wrote a couple lines before he was lynched to mess with us for some reason.

I have a feeling mafia won't believe me and will hit me anyways. But I won't let someone get lynched based off of a scummy lie.

[Mithrandir]

Vote: sarathos. A hunch and if he's been active and hasn't voted yet, that seems weird.

I'd rather lynch 3 townies and one maffia member than just voting abstain the whole time and wait for my turn to be killed...

[Privateerkev]

Twilightblade is very sick as of now. We (his friends) do not know what it is. We havent spoken to him for nearly a week.


OOC: I'm sorry about TB and I hope he is ok. I'll keep him in my thoughts...

[naut]

My thoughts were either that Sigurd was indeed the "hobo" got lucky and found both the Prostitute and the Carabinieri. Highly unlikely. More probably he just made the whole thing up.

What I don't like is how certain players seem to be dictating the game and are "untouchable".

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

What I don't like is how certain players seem to be dictating the game and are "untouchable".

??? Explanation? Names?

[Privateerkev]

tally:

axel: 3 (Privateerkev, pevergreen, LittleGrizzly)

Husar: 2 (Northnovas, Sasaki Kojiro)

pevergreen: 1 (woad&fangs)
sarathos: 1 (Mithrandir)

[naut]

woad&fangs makes sense, but I don't agree with his vote. I will place my vote on:

Vote: LittleGrizzly


axel's continued presence in the game makes no sense unless he has a role.

Thats good enough for me

Vote Axel
This just says scum, scum, scum to me.

[Privateerkev]

woad&fangs makes sense, but I don't agree with his vote. I will place my vote on:

Vote: LittleGrizzly


This just says scum, scum, scum to me.

Before Ichigo was killed, he told me he was investigating LG. I wonder what he found. I know he can't discuss night actions but he can at least give his opinion like Khaan has been doing.

[Csargo]

Before Ichigo was killed, he told me he was investigating LG. I wonder what he found. I know he can't discuss night actions but he can at least give his opinion like Khaan has been doing.

I told you, I thought he had a role. Him and Northnovas.

[Privateerkev]

I told you, I thought he had a role. Him and Northnovas.

Yeah but how do you feel about him now?

[Csargo]

Yeah but how do you feel about him now?

Since I know who the prostitute and the "supposed" detective are, it should be pretty obvious. :beam:

[TinCow]

Vote: Sasaki

His first turn block coincided with only a single kill when we had many killers. The fact that he posted his own blockage PM just means he's smart, not that he's innocent. Lynch active players, not WoGs.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Vote: Sasaki

His first turn block coincided with only a single kill when we had many killers. The fact that he posted his own blockage PM just means he's smart, not that he's innocent. Lynch active players, not WoGs.

Not sound logic. Prostitute received same pm I did--ergo she can confirm that I staid home that night. There weren't many killers, manfredo and MiB weren't active. The yakuza didn't strike, presumably he was investigating.

[TinCow]

The prostitute can confirm, but has not done so. She could have easily verified your "doing nothing" PM via Ichigo, but that never happened. The votes on Husar are total scum, and your participation in that bandwagon tipped your balance in my mind.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

That's simply not true. You are not allowed to reveal privately, so the prostitute could not have pm'd ichigo. A public reveal in this case would have resulted in my lynching. Also, if I had been lying, I would have been blocked the following night as well, and indeed every night since. The only possible conclusion is that I was telling the truth.

As for husar, you said yourself that the manner he explained himself made him suspicious. Sigurd died and yet there were 4 kill attempts. His reveal was somewhat scummy, but the lack of definite denial in husar is also scummy.

Is it also your belief that northnovas and curio are scum?

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

Sasaki is right Tincow, there are no private reveals, something I think that we have forgotten. Therefore while the Prostitute can prove Sasaki's innocence, she can't come forward as yet.

However how is the vote on Husar 'scummy'? There are legitimate questions to be answered, even if Sigurd has lied (which I now believe he has), which have arisen from his behaviour. Husar needs to explain himself. The best method of applying pressure to force him to answer is a threat to his welfare. The only weapon the town has is the power to lynch, therefore...

...do I really need to spell it out?

[naut]

What Sasaki says makes sense about the prostitute, and since it seems every killing role was active last night it sort of clears TC as well.


You are not allowed to reveal privately, so the prostitute could not have pm'd ichigo.
Ichigo supposedly found him/her through investigation though.

I don't think Axel is the best lynch, since he's a WoG target, if he doesn't get WoG'd then we lynch him tomorrow, simple as that.

I really do get a bad vibe from LG, he's doing just enough to stay in the game and stave off suspicion. Without risking throwing his weight around.

[Privateerkev]

Ichigo supposedly found him/her through investigation though.

I think he means that you can not PM night results without first making them public. You can hint. You can make stuff up. But nothing private.

[Makanyane]

As Ichigo seems to be dropping as much of a hint as he can - and his manner of death seems to confirm his old story

Vote: LittleGrizzly


the problem with going for the Wog'ies who haven't been wogged yet - so seem to have a role would be if Sigurd wasn't the detective its possible that the role that's stopping them getting wogged could be the detective one. Though if they aren't getting any info back to us the role isn't doing much good!

[Haudegen]

As Ichigo seems to be dropping as much of a hint as he can - and his manner of death seems to confirm his old story

Vote: LittleGrizzly


Yep

Vote: LittleGrizzly

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

OK, going to be inactive for at least 24 hours, due to RL stuff, work, sport and sleep being among them.

Before I go, Vote:Abstain

Events are moving too quickly currently for me, in good conscience, to vote for someone, who knowing my luck will be innocent and then get lynched because of me.

However, FOS: Husar, Little Grizzly, and Haudegan

Husar, the reasons are my own above, doesn't need to be explained further.

Little Grizzly has, as mentioned been doing an extremely good job of lurking, hence under the radar suspicion. Plus Ichigo's hint. Kind of compelling, but I'd like to see LG's answer to this, before I vote for him.

Haudegan, you ask? Well if Little Grizzly's been doing a good job of lurking and yet avoiding suspicion, then Haudegan has too. Look at his post history, (I'm sorry I don't have time to post it all here, as I said RL takes precedence atm). So far only one constructive post, and even then not particularly compelling. Also, (more importantly), I present to you, assorted members of the town, exhibit A:
Yep

Vote: LittleGrizzly
:no:

I'm sorry but that, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, is what is known as a blatant bandwagon in its purest form, not even an attempt at justification, and possibly for no actual constructive reason (aside from attempting to avoid suspicion falling onto himself, in which case he has failed). Again I'd like to hear his defence, before I randomly vote, which means I won't actually, in all probability vote for him.

I trust the town will consider this in my absence.

Curio

[Andres]

To make things clear:

NO PRIVATE REVEALS!

NIGHT ACTIONS NOR ROLES CAN BE REVEALED IN PRIVATE.

[Ferret]

wow too many posts to read in one go. Back on page 23 I agree about Axel. People who make no contribution but are not WoGed when other, more active, people are they must have some kind of special role.

vote:Axel

[Sigurd]

The Husar votes are based off of Sigurd's lies.

Something felt very scummy about Sigurd. But, there was one yakuza and one Carelli style hit last night. As well as Manfredo and Juliette's brother.

So I don't know who Sigurd was but I do not trust him. I guess I’ll use PrivaterK’s entry to start off my rebuttal.

I have not lied in any of my posts. If there is anyone behind the scenes that claims this, you would better be careful. They lead a scummy agenda.
I revealed my results publically and they aren’t saying much. However one sticks out and that was Husar. It mentioned all night. In PrivaterK’s case it just stated out of bed. If we remember, it was the night when a lot of people gathered to listen through Prole’s door when she was with the prostitute.
I guess last night clears me of any guilt as there were 4 attempts and 3 kills which cater for all known mafia and killer roles. I think many of you are smart enough to figure out what is going on.

I shall mention something concerning Ichigo that I don’t think breaks any of the rules.
We had a conversation a few days ago when I was still alive. He mentioned that he had made a list of whom to investigate and that he had used random.org to produce it. I suggested flippantly that he might have received the same list as Andres when he made the role candidates. Ichigo didn’t laugh that much because his list returned himself on top. He then got the prostitute as the second name and 00jebus third and then a list of names I am not going to mention.
He was going to investigate them in order. All I will say is that LittleGrizzly was on that list. I don’t know if Ichigo got around to actually investigating L.Grizz, but I can imagine why Ichigo is hinting.

I am watching the progression here and I can't spot any obvious mistakes.
PrivaterKev and Gaius S Curio seems to be working in a behind scene network with perhaps Rythmic.
Rythmic seems to know more about Husar than the rest of us.
This can only mean two things, either someone revealed in private or there might be roles knowing about other roles.

Sasaki is being very careful... He is reluctant to push any player.
I have my eye on a few other players as well.

[Husar]

His reveal was somewhat scummy, but the lack of definite denial in husar is also scummy.?
Oh well, if you want that, I'm not mafia or any other sort of killer, just a townie.
If you want to know where a townie could have been on night one, maybe in the pub or watching the volcano with some bbqing. :dizzy2:
Apart from that I maintain that it was simply made up, how can I explain where I've been without having been anywhere, how on earth do you think I figured that Sigurd was lying other than that he was?
If that still isn't enough for you then maybe you want my townie PM?
Privateerkev already confirmed that Sigurd is lying.

[Makanyane]

Just one interesting thing
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1920525&postcount=65

host watching.... Andres in other thread saying
Usual standard practice is mafia always has the same amount of kills each night, even when they are down to one.

So do you think that means the Carellis only ever had one kill per night?
in case that effects any calculation of what people were doing / not doing

[Northnovas]

unvote: Husar

tally:

axel: 3 (Privateerkev, pevergreen, LittleGrizzly)

LittleGrizzly: 3 (Rythmic, Haudegan, Makanyane)

Sasaki: 1 (Tincow)
Husar: 1 (Sasaki Kojiro)
pevergreen: 1 (woad&fangs)
sarathos: 1 (Mithrandir

[Makanyane]

unvote: Husar

why? because you're convinced by Husar's denial - or because you distrust Sigurd?

[Northnovas]

A little of both but I still have time to put it back on I want to see what else develops. LittleGrizzly is looking like a possibility too.

[KukriKhan]

Thankyouthankyouthankyou!

Finally, someone who is speaking sense!

Concentrate on those who are active.

I respectfully disagree. As soon as I forcefully criticized the lurkers, I got snuffed. So I was seen as a threat. If I could vote, I'd work my way up the list of names, starting with the players with the lowest in-thread post-count.

With all the dead townie bodies laying about, the odds of "getting" a maf are greatly increased, IMO.

[TinCow]

That's simply not true. You are not allowed to reveal privately, so the prostitute could not have pm'd ichigo. A public reveal in this case would have resulted in my lynching. Also, if I had been lying, I would have been blocked the following night as well, and indeed every night since. The only possible conclusion is that I was telling the truth.

As for husar, you said yourself that the manner he explained himself made him suspicious. Sigurd died and yet there were 4 kill attempts. His reveal was somewhat scummy, but the lack of definite denial in husar is also scummy.

Is it also your belief that northnovas and curio are scum?

I have no opinion yet on Northnovas. Curio I am leaning towards townie, but he has no evidence for or against him, so I remain open minded about him.

My problem with Husar comes from the fact that Sigurd's 'investigations' were unbelievably scummy. There is definitely some truth in them, based on Husar's reaction. However, I am also inclined to believe PK's statement about Sigurd lying about him. PK just doesn't strike me as mafia. He has been acting exactly as he always does in this game, and it would be nearly impossible for anyone to pull off such a perfect cover from the first turn of their first game. I learned enough in Capo II to let me win Netherworld, but I severely botched Capo II. So, I believe PK is genuine, which means I believe his statements about Sigurd's results on him.

This all means that Sigurd has accurate investigation results, but also falsified at least one of them. There is no way the real detective would do this. I thus conclude that Sigurd is not the real detective. As noted before, the only other options are Taketski and the MiB. Since we don't even know if the MiB can investigate (I still think it more likely that he's Juliette's brother), I think Sigurd was Taketski. This has a major impact on Husar's situation. Husar was out 'doing something' on Night 1, but he was also innocent, which means he didn't kill. The Carellis killed on Night 1 and they cannot investigate. Therefore Husar is not the Carellis. Sigurd was (IMO) Taketski, so Husar is not Taketski. Ichigo was Juliette, so Husar is not Juliette. This leaves the hitman, the MiB, the prostitute, and the real detective. The latter two are pure pro-town. The Hitman is neutral and has the option of joining either town or mafia now that Juliette is dead. It would be nice to get a vigilante on our side. The MiB is unknown, but since I think he's probably Juliette's brother, he's also essentially neutral. So, as I see it, Husar is either pro-town, or neutral with the power to aid the town. I definitely want to hear more from him, but I think lynching him would be an ungodly bad error.

I do think there was a way for the prostitute to communicate with Ichigo without making a reveal, but perhaps thats just because I'm used to thinking about ways around the rules. I will accept Andres' post as a statement saying that such a transfer of information was not allowed, even if I can imagine ways to do it. I will therefore remove my vote from Sasaki, but I encourage everyone to keep their eyes on him. My experience with him makes me very cautious around him (that's a compliment, Sasaki).

Unvote: Sasaki
Vote: Haudegen

Curio explained it all. Very bad vote by Haudegen.

[Makanyane]

If Sigurd was was Taketski, who (which role) could have attacked you last night? That seems to be the only flaw in that arguement.

Another secret role with investigative powers seems like remote possibility - another one with attack powers seems a bit much...


I also agree that the MiB is probably the brother though - as Sasaki picked up the first post talks about the MiB grinning and all the brothers kills have mentioned grinning (I think, working off memory not had time to double check that)

[Privateerkev]

Sigurd is lying. Townies do not come up in investigation results as "out of bed".

What is your game Sigurd?

As for the suspects, LG and Haudegen certainly seem scummy. But I am keeping my sights set on Axel in case anyone else forgets about him. If he doesn't get WoG'd, then it will be confirmed he has a role. But I rather lynch him and not take the chance.

new tally:

axel: 4 (Privateerkev, pevergreen, LittleGrizzly, Elite Ferret)

LittleGrizzly: 3 (Rythmic, Makanyane, Haudegen)

Haudegen: 1 (TinCow)
Husar: 1 (Sasaki Kojiro)
pevergreen: 1 (woad&fangs)
sarathos: 1 (Mithrandir)

Abstain: 1 (Gaius Scribonius Curio)

[LittleGrizzly]

Well i think i explained my few days of absence and since then i have returned and tryed to be helpful, i generally try not to post unless i have got something to say and even when i do post im just making observations and collecting facts, im not great at reading people so i haven't got a whole lot i could contribute anyway.

Check out my contributions in Capo II fairly similar in style and frequency excluding the few days i missed here because of my friends PS3. Check out the backroom during that absence from here i think i only posted once there, which is under my usual posting rate.

I mean i don't see how my agreeing with PK's reasoning is scummy, it seems sensible enough to me, how can a player whose done less than those wog'd survive ? by sending pm's is the answer

How come im getting voted for lurking when theres far worse lurkers around ? like axel for one example, ive obviously been doing enough not to get wog'd and those few days are the only gap.

Im not sure what Ichigo is on about, he cannot have investigated me and think im scum, if he didn't get round to investigating me then i don't understand what his 'hint' is all about as he has nothing more than anyone else to base it on and if he did investigate me then he must be scum, but were all pretty sure he isn't ?

ill post more later but im in the middle of an essay a sec

check my posting record well i wasn't posting in here!! (don't forget)

Edit: if you take out the gap where i was away i have made every vote and practically posted each day and night phase

[Sigurd]

I see confusion rules…
I was lynched and had a few minutes to spill what I had before I got the noose or in this case a bullet all while watching an important game on TV. (I blame you who lynched me for my team's loss)

I will restate what I am allowed to say. I have not claimed to be the detective; the results I presented are nearly identical to those I got from Andres.
I had no time to go into my pm box to get them out and wrote them from memory. I made an update at the request of a player and I believe I got a thank you from another player.


Sigurd is lying. Townies do not come up in investigation results as "out of bed". Right… and you know this because?

Have you all forgotten this?:



Sorry, Sigurd died and is no longer allowed to discuss about his night actions.

This seems like an attest from the game moderator, if I have ever seen one.

[Privateerkev]

I will restate what I am allowed to say. I have not claimed to be the detective; the results I presented are nearly identical to those I got from Andres.

nearly? o_O


I had no time to go into my pm box to get them out and wrote them from memory. I made an update at the request of a player and I believe I got a thank you from another player.

It's quicker to cut and paste your PM's than it is to type.


Right… and you know this because?

Because investigating me will not give the result you claim.

I find TC's theory that your Taketsi to be intriguing. However there was an attempted kill last night that seems like a yakuza hit.

But something about you smells like scum...

[Haudegen]

Curio, TinCow,

I voted LG because from my (perhaps flawed) interpretation of Ichigos statements (# 709 and #711) I believed that he meant that LG and Northnovas were guilty. Since Ichigo was almost certainly pro-town and had some investigation results, I took this as a sufficient reason to vote LG.

Apparently Makanyane understood Ichigo´s statement in the same way.

And: If Ichigo meant to say that LG and NN had pro-town roles in fact (as mentioned, I´m confused about this point), wouldn´t it be a rather foolish move to publish their names?

Perhaps someone can help me understand Ichigo.

Unvote: LG

for now.

[Sigurd]

It's quicker to cut and paste your PM's than it is to type.
Not if you have to open three pms on a laptop with a Wi Fi connection.
It took me nearly 2 minuttes just to edit out your name. And why did you thank me for editing out you name.. why didn't you or your buddy accuse me of lies then? Is that a wiff of guilty I smell on you?


Because investigating me will not give the result you claim.
Yet it did.


I find TC's theory that your Taketsi to be intriguing. However there was an attempted kill last night that seems like a yakuza hit.
Who have you been discussing with behind the scenes?
How can I have been Taketsiwhen there were 4 attempted murders last night? If I were, then there must be more roles than Andres listed.

[Privateerkev]

It took me nearly 2 minuttes just to edit out your name. And why did you thank me for editing out you name.. why didn't you or your buddy accuse me of lies then?

I sent you no such PM.


Yet it did.

It is impossible. Townies can not be seen as "out of the house but innocent."

For some reason, you are trying to confuse the town. You've pretty much admitted your not the detective so why should we believe anything you say?


Who have you been discussing with behind the scenes?

TC just theorized right here on the thread that you may be Taketsi.


How can I have been Taketsi when there were 4 attempted murders last night? If I were, then there must be more roles than Andres listed.

I have long suspected that there are roles in the game that are not up on the first post. If your Taketsi, you could have a yakuza buddy running around on the loose. Perhaps you were allowed to recruit before you got lynched.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

The game seems a little slow at the moment. Too many people are not posting, voting and without any excuses either.

Husar's reaction to Sigurd's comments do not make me think of him as scum - they don't have that mafia style aggressive "fight back" tone to them. I wouldn't really trust Sigurd's results personally, but he's dead so otherwise he's not worth worrying about.

LittleGrizzly, well, I suppose Ichigo's hint over him is a good reason for a vote, but those that appeared and simply jumped on the bandwaggon immediatley afterwards with minimal comments also probably are worth examining. I've checked Haudgen's posts, since he was one of those to jump on the waggon immediately.

Esentially what we have is minimal and quite "let's go along with what everybody else says" attitude. This (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1918852#post1918852) took my interest more than anything though. At what stage did Ichigo suggest that Manfredo was makikhaan? Nobody replied to it or furtherly mentioned it, so it didn't get looked into.

I'm uncertain about it, but I'd like to see Haudgen's response.

Vote: Haudgen

[Privateerkev]

At what stage did Ichigo suggest that Manfredo was makikhaan? Nobody replied to it or furtherly mentioned it, so it didn't get looked into.

Ichigo suspected Khaan on a hunch. But since it seems Manfredo killed Juliette while Khaan was dead, it seems to be a wrong hunch.

updated tally:

axel: 4 (Privateerkev, pevergreen, LittleGrizzly, Elite Ferret)

LittleGrizzly: 2 (Rythmic, Makanyane)
Haudegen: 2 (TinCow, Omanes Alexandrapolites)

Husar: 1 (Sasaki Kojiro)
pevergreen: 1 (woad&fangs)
sarathos: 1 (Mithrandir)

Abstain: 1 (Gaius Scribonius Curio)

[Proletariat]

Husar seems really close to his usual indignant townie self, even with his weak answer. Sigurd can't be trusted, no way can we buy this 'it's faster to type up stuff and hit c&p.'

Neither of the Haudegan or Little Grizzly lynches seem that solid, so I'll flip a coin... and Vote: Haudegan. Would be nice to hear more out of axel

[Privateerkev]

Husar seems really close to his usual indignant townie self, even with his weak answer. Sigurd can't be trusted, no way can we buy this 'it's faster to type up stuff and hit c&p.'

Neither of the Haudegan or Little Grizzly lynches seem that solid, so I'll flip a coin... and Vote: Haudegan. Would be nice to hear more out of axel

It would be nice to hear anything out of Axel

If it makes you feel any better, I figured out there is no way you can be the serial killer. You were with the prostitute on the same turn the SK killed someone.

Since I've voiced my suspicion about you a couple of times, I thought it would only be nice to balance it out a little. ^_^

tally:

axel: 4 (Privateerkev, pevergreen, LittleGrizzly, Elite Ferret)

Haudegen: 3 (TinCow, Omanes Alexandrapolites, Proletariat)

LittleGrizzly: 2 (Rythmic, Makanyane)

Husar: 1 (Sasaki Kojiro)
pevergreen: 1 (woad&fangs)
sarathos: 1 (Mithrandir)

Abstain: 1 (Gaius Scribonius Curio)

[Haudegen]

I'm uncertain about it, but I'd like to see Haudgen's response.

Vote: Haudgen

Errr, it´s right there.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1921857#post1921857

[LittleGrizzly]

Before Ichigo was killed, he told me he was investigating LG. I wonder what he found. I know he can't discuss night actions but he can at least give his opinion like Khaan has been doing.


I told you, I thought he had a role. Him and Northnovas.


Originally Posted by Privateerkev
Yeah but how do you feel about him now?


Since I know who the prostitute and the "supposed" detective are, it should be pretty obvious

this is the sum total of ichigo's hint.... he thought me and northnovas had roles and since he now knows 2 roles its obvious

what im assuming he's implying by its obvious is that if me or northnovas had a role it has to be a bad one seen as he knows who has the good roles, but he only thought i had a role, so its only obvious that im scum if ichigo's first thought was right, by the sounds of whats been going on here i don't think ichigo got the chance to investigate me because he wouldn't be dropping me in it like this or he would be hinting at my innocence.

[Makanyane]

Nothing's looking that certain about anybody at the moment....

In desperation, the one thing I've not been sure about mentioning before is The Stranger's replacement by Elite Ferret.

TS specifically asked to be substituted, not suicided or Wog'd, that was seems to imply he had a role other than townie, https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1916638&postcount=314
and he was replaced....

what does anyone else think about that? EF do you have any comment?

[Privateerkev]

what does anyone else think about that? EF do you have any comment?

There is certainly the possibility that EF inherited whatever role TS had. But going over TS's posts, I think he just misunderstood something when he voted for me. So, I have been content to see how EF acts and not judge him by what TS did. EF hasn't done anything I can see that has been very suspicious.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I think Sigurd was Taketski. This has a major impact on Husar's situation. Husar was out 'doing something' on Night 1, but he was also innocent, which means he didn't kill.

I had taken the view that even if sigurd was mafia, there was no reason to assume he wasn't trying to take other mafia down with him.

Husar's reaction is strange, but now that time has passed it looks too laid back to make him seem scummy. One would expect more vigor.

The little grizzly wagon is ridiculous. unvote,vote:axel

This game is in need of a reread.

[Northnovas]

Taking PK's observation.

Vote: Axel

[Ferret]

I think that may have just been theStranger's preference, I know I would rather be replaced than waste on of the slots in the game. Besides I didn't replace him straight away and Andres wouldn't have let an important role waft around for a few turns, with no certainty of being replaced. If you like I can post what Andres sent me upon joining though I'm not sure if the townie Pm has already been posted.