Concert of Europe

[Prince Cobra]

Sofarsogood, could you please send me some information on the treaties that Austria had made so far and some other information as a beginning. What is the agenda for this turn?

(Well, I think it'd be quite nice to pospone the retirement of Metternich for now. That would fit nicely with my participation :P )

P.S. If I am going to take it, this may mean I need some more time until the next Saturday (27th of October). I will try to make it earlier but I am not 100 per cent sure.

[SoFarSoGood]

I have no objections to a Metternich return... This turn deals with events between 1st January 1845 to 1st Jan 1846 though the 'agenda' is for players to decide. There is no desperate hurry as Piedmont - Sardinia (Khival) is ill and I am not too well myself. Will send details.

[Kival]

I might be able to answer some pms now today. I'm glad we will have Austria now, was strange to play as Sardinia-Piedmont without Austria being played.

[Greyblades]

For the safety of the trade in the Eastern Mediterranean and after negotiations with the command of the English Royal Navy, the French war minisrty announces:

The coasts of Crete, Egypt and Syria are declared as combat zones. All neutral state ships have to leave these zones until January 15th. Ships of the English navy will accompany all ships that want to leave the danger zone at Egypt. Outside of the danger zones, ships from all neutral state will be guided and protected by the French and the English navy.

All ships which stay inside the danger zones after January 15th are doing this at their own risk.

Britain confirms this and adds that to maintain the trade of cotton Britain is setting up a corridor stretching from the port of damietta to the edge of the main mediteranian safezone, any trading vessel in this corridor are under british protection and damietta itself will be guarded by britain, from hense forth to the end of the conflict damietta will serve as the only safe trade hub in egypt, the rest will remain unprotected and risk being subjected to french naval attack. To maintain the nerutrality any millitary member from either side of the war wishing entry to the areas designated as safe must temporarily relinquish thier weaponry, swear not to fight any opposing faction member while inside the city and agree leave withing three days, those wishing to stay further will have to swear an oath not to partake in the war for the duration of thier stay and 4 weeks after leaving or have thier weaponry permanantly confiscated. This is to stop damietta being used by either side's military as a safe haven, as such use could incite the other side to attack regardless of it's status.

If such arrangements are not agreeable we would welcome imput on any changes.

In other news after deliberation with the Egyptian government Britain has purchased a 50 year "lease" of the suez area with the intention of building a canal connecting the mediterannian and Red seas. The area is now technically British territory but unrestricted access to both Egyptian and French armies is granted, as long as they only keep killing eachother and stay clear of British prospectors and labourers.

We would like our rigormortis to stay restricted to our upper lips if you please.

[SoFarSoGood]

They are not agreeable to Egypt who declare that all ports are open but any merchant ship not carrying a British or Ottoman flag will be fired upon within 100 miles from the Egyptian shore.

[Greyblades]

They are not agreeable to Egypt who declare that all ports are open but any merchant ship not carrying a British or Ottoman flag will be fired upon within 100 miles from the Egyptian shore.

My apologies, I did not mean to say that it would be the only port defended just the only port that Britain is maintaining.

[Prince Cobra]

Who is playing as Russia, by the way?

A list of the players which are active at the moment would be useful... ~;)

[SoFarSoGood]

Russia: Arjos
Britain: Greyblades
France: Fran
Prussia: SwordMaster
Piedmont Sardinia: Kival

[Franconicus]

Franconicus, s'il vous plais!

[SoFarSoGood]

Still waiting for Austria and Piedmont Sardinia.

[Greyblades]

Still waiting for Austria and Piedmont Sardinia.

Give em a day then stick em on auto pilot, that's what I'd do.

[SoFarSoGood]

Let's say tomorrow evening (Tuesday 23rd October) is last 'main' chance for Austria/Piedmont - Sardinia to get their orders in. By this I mean they can still submit orders unto the day that Chapter 4 Part 1 is posted but any military actions will be regarded as happening only from June - December 1845 and therefore will not effect any events in the first part of the year (saves me having to rewrite what I will have finished).

[SoFarSoGood]

I hope to have Chapter 4 Part 1 (Main Military Events) posted by Friday - Saturday night latest if not possible sooner. There is a mammoth amount to cover with campaigns on 3-4 fronts and once I have 'details' done the 'public' chapter (which you will be glad to hear includes the thoughts of a French Commanding General during an ongoing battle; the Generals diary almost) must be arranged.

I await some mid turn decisions.

[Kival]

I'm fine with all decisions and will try to answer/write. Next turn should be less of a problem then.

[Prince Cobra]

Until the end of this evening (24:00 GMT) you shall have my orders.

By the way, after some considerations and reading of the chapters, I see Emperor Franz Joseph was indeed already in the story line (I did not know Fran Joseph was already in the chapters). This leaves me no choice but to accept the retirement of Metternich and the appointment of a new Chancellor Furst Schwarzenberg. Metternich may still play a role but only as a diplomat pawn. So basically I will play as Furst Schwarzenberg for now.

[Prince Cobra]

Orders sent!

[SoFarSoGood]

Will have Chapter 4 Part 1 asap.

[Greyblades]

Until the end of this evening (24:00 GMT) you shall have my orders.

By the way, after some considerations and reading of the chapters, I see Emperor Franz Joseph was indeed already in the story line (I did not know Fran Joseph was already in the chapters). This leaves me no choice but to accept the retirement of Metternich and the appointment of a new Chancellor Furst Schwarzenberg. Metternich may still play a role but only as a diplomat pawn. So basically I will play as Furst Schwarzenberg for now.

I'm sure if the emperor wills it he would come out of retirement.

[SoFarSoGood]

I have no objection to a Metternich or Imperial return...

P.S This is one immense Chapter... weekend with luck for Part 1: Main Militay Events (Jan 1st 1845 to Jan 1st 1846)... getting there. As always I will try to get finished sooner rather than later but really there is ALOT here apart of the 3 -4 fronts (Balkan, Eastern Anatolian, Syrian and Egyptian) from Chapter 3.

[Franconicus]

Take it easy, SFSG! Just a couple of lines will do it:

Due to the amazing victory of the French troops at Syria Egypt decided to lay down her army ans asks to become French colony.

Then you made two fronts with one line. It is as simple as that!

By the way, you can use this line if you want to! :2thumbsup:

[SoFarSoGood]

Thankyou for your suggestion but not looking so good in Syria as you know. Hopefuly done tomorrow/Sunday.

Update; about 2/3rds done... now bed.

[SoFarSoGood]

Sorry... had a busy weekend with family stuff. Will get finished as soon as possible.

[SoFarSoGood]

Should be up tomorrow morning latest! Sorry for the delay chaps... few more bits and pieces and to work out and write up but all done done in my head now.

[SoFarSoGood]

Well here it is... better late than never! I apologise for delays and hope this Chapter infuriates you as it did me!

It may not seem big but this Chapter is in fact immense and many a twist and turn is taken and some places and entire regions change hands several times.

Some of my Chapter 3 decisions for the Arab/Ottomans were left unfinished last year and they kick in at the start of 1845; armies that 'over the horizon' at the end of 1844 now appear. As with Chapter 3 I have taken NPC decisions before orders were received and where realistic and feasible stuck to them (no suicide missions).

I have also decided to give dates and slighly more details for battles in the Balkans and Syria for this Chapter as Austrian, Prussian and Russian forces are in close proximity in the Balkans and Sardinian/Italian volunteer and French forces serving on the same Syrian front. Word is therefore 'spread'.


Chapter 4 Part 1: Main Militay Events (Jan 1st 1845 to Jan 1st 1846)

Brief Outline of Ottoman/Arab Relations

First it is important to note that the Ottoman, and indeed any, 'Empire' is NOT a homogeneous whole. The Sultan is, as it were, first among the Moslem Princes but his authourity only as good as his ability to enforce it or a common interest allows. Historicly the Sultan was at war with Egypt in 1844 and the first thing I did when taking over as 'host' in 'late 1843 game time' was agreed a truce so that Sultan could avoid a war on two fronts. Of course I was then unaware that the French would land in the Levant. The Jihad first called by the Sultan then became serious as the Arabs are now threatened themselves. The French invasion of Egypt, though repulsed in 1844, is regarded as a threat to the North African Provinces as is the Russian attack on 'Western Armenia'/East Anatolia to Mosul. Now ALL these provinces are in fact competing with each other and are using the Jihad for their own gain. Thus in the Sultans truce with Egypt in February 1844 he gave Syria to Egypt (in my mind he had to). The Egyptian forces in Syria were largely defeated by the French 'Corps D'Hilliers' in 1844 and now the Sultan and others wish to aquire supremacy in region.

As for Moslem numbers I note that in CoE 1 a Mahdi appeared in the Levant and within a year could muster 1 million men. Be scared... be very scared! As Mehmed Namık Pasha message to the French at Beirut says "The forces we bring with us are but as a few grains of sand upon a beach that lies our disposal and we alone outnumber you 4 to 1."

Note on Generals and Experience

A brief note about Generals decisions and 'experience': Generals entering what for them is a new theatre of war take some time adjust; Generals gain experience from their encounters in a theatre; they 'know more' about the enemies tactics and the area. In Chapter 3 there were three outstanding Generals; the Russian General Engelhardt fought several battles and now is far more aware of the importance of the Danube (which had no bridge in 1845) as a result. The French Generals D'Hilliers and Bugeaud, while they made mistakes in 1844 are far less likely to repeat such mistakes again, no matter what their orders are... and here is a vital point: Your Generals are not automatons that carry out the Governments will as if by magic. They are rational professionals; while they will try to carry out orders if it is clearly suicide to do so then they 'lose' their orders. The 'mistakes' made by D'Hilliers and Bugeaud in 1844 were largely due to 'overconfidence' after easy early victories and at least partly due to trying to complete their orders. If a General is a Field Marshall I have credited them as wiser than the average General - Paskevich has a fuller appreciation of strategy etc...

Having said that as an 'entree' let us proceed to the 'main course'.


Russia

The Balkan Campaign

Of Engelhardt

The year starts early for the Russians when The 4th Battle of Varna (Jan 4th -6th 1845) occurs. The Ottoman Fleet are offshore and bombarding. In the midst of the Battle the Russian Commander, Engelhardt is informed that his award the Order of St. George, third class and receives the Czars orders. Sadly this does not save the position at Varna and a Russian Defeat ensues.

The remainder of the Russian troops withdraw to Burgas which is later bombarded. They withdraw inland to await reinforcement and Engelhardt recovers from his wounds to resume Command. Sadly after Varna was lost not all detatchments have received new orders and some are still headed for Varna. This results in the The First Battle of Silistra (Jan 18th 1845) as Russian detatchments attempt to force a crossing of the Danube to Varna. They are repulsed and the battle is a Russian Defeat.

Luckily some detatchments are saved a similar fate by the prompt action of Staff Officers while the General is incapacitated and slowly the detatchements arrive at Sliven.

Not content with their victories thus far the Ottoman Navy attack Odessa. The Sea Battle Of Odessa (19th January 1845) ensues but 'allied forces' are too far away to hear results. Russian Defeat.

The Army now assembled at Sliven crosses to the north bank of the Danube (Russian mid turn decision) to re-secure the supply route from Iasi to Bucharest. To do this they are forced to fight Battle of Buzau (February 18th 1845), which involved a Russian mid battle decision and resulted in a Russian Victory.


Of Gorchakov and Allied Tensions

Gorchakov and 20,000 men leave Burgas early in the year and while they do not encounter thier enemy they encounter 'allied and diplomatic obstacles'. They march west and reach Plovdiv 12th January. The Austrians are alarmed and forces are called from Sofia. Gorchakov is not prepared to disclose his orders and the Archduke Charles arrives. Gorchakov still refuses to talk and the matter is taken to Edirne where the Czar and King Othon are currently occupied by news of the Battle of Kesan to the south. On the 16th January the Czar and King Othon hear the dispute which turns out to be a misunderstanding.

Having sorted the diplomatic disputes Gorchakov moves his troops to Kardzali. In mid February the Czar realises that the Edirne/Adrianople is seriously comprimised on both flanks. Gorchakov is ordered to occupy Uzunkopru and support the Greeks at Edirne/Adrianople if needed. The Austrians are asked to retake Kesan. The Czar then marches north to Sliven to stop the northern encirclement of Edirne/Adrianople. He is unable to reach Sliven before the Ottomans are reinforced and fights the Battle of Sliven (February 23rd - 24th 1845) which is a Russian Victory.

http://www.gera.de/fm/sixcms/222/sliven-01.jpg Modern day Sliven.

Staff 'Observations' and Enter Paskevich

In March the Czar receives a report called 'Observations of the Balkan Campaign 1843-45' from his Staff. This amounts to a critique of the handling of the campaign so far (copies are available for a price!). He forwards the 'Observations' to his Generals in the field who provide confidential opinions. Field Marshall Paskevich is called for from Poland and the Czar concludes Treaty of Alliance and a Free Trade Treaty with Wallachia. Gheorghe Bibescu is appointed Hospodar of Wallachia and the Wallachian Assembly confirms his appointment.

Paskevich arrives and meets with Engelhardt, Gorchakov and the Czar and the 'Paskevich Plan' ensues. On 6th May Gorchakov informs King Othon and Archduke Charles that he is leaving for Sliven, again he refuses to disclose his orders. From what becomes clear later Gorchakov marches east and fights the The Second Battle of Silistra (May 26th 1845) with the Czar nearby. Engelhardt then wins a victory at the The Battle of Negru Voda (11th June 1845) where the Czar was also present. Varna is later reoccupied. These are Russian Victories.

Reinforcements arrive in August and redeployments are made.

In September the Czar is asked by King Othon to hold Adrianople (Edirne) as he has received reports of enemy landings in Greece. The Czar agrees and is trapped at Edirne where he and Paskevich, with Gorchakov fight the Second Battle of Edirne/Adrianople (October 25th 1845). This is a Russian Defeat. The Austrians and Prussians withdraw east and escape and the Czar is not safe until he joins them at Xanthi 3rd November. They later return north to reach Bucharest where the Czar spends the remainder of the year. In December the Czar hears of the Tatar Rebellion in Crimea and the succesful repulse of the rebels at the Battle of Odessa late in October.


The Russian Caucuses/Eastern Anatolian Campaign

General/King of Armenia Andronikashvili is threatened early the the year and before his orders to withdraw can reach Agri the strong garrison he had left there is annihilated trying to withdraw at the Battle of Karabacak Koyu. He retreats toward Georgia and sends messages and support to his garrison at Artvin to retreat along the coast. The coastal force is then attacked at the Battle of Supsa defeated. Andronikashvili then finds Tiblisi occupied by a superior enemy force and despair spreads over the Christian Caucuses population. Andronikashvili retreats to Lidzava on the coast where he welcomes his distant cousin Ivane Bagration of Mukhrani with reinforments and the Czars orders. The Czars orders he regards as no longer relevant to the situation with which they are faced.

He plans a defence of Lidzava and is able to execute his plan at The Battle of Lidzava (March 1845). This is a Major Russian Victory. He is later able to reoccupy Supsa and Tiblisi where Ivane Bagration is proclaimed 'Prince of Georgia'. They receive many Georgian and Armenian recruits and are later able to occupy Yerevan and regain Artvin and Kars.



France


The Franco Sardinian Armee d’Outre Mer: Syria

Early in the year Prince Ferdinand of Genoa regards it wise to withdraw south from Tartus. He is caught briefly at Battle of Tripoli (January 1845) but is able to hold his persuers long enough for most of the Tartus garrison to escape. He retreats to Beirut. Draw/Sardinian Pyrrhic Victory Strategic Defeat.

Some new French Generals (De Damas, Cavaignac and de Bedeau) arrive in the Levant some 'misurstandings' occur particulary, it is rumoured, between D'Hilliers and Cavaignac, the latter of which meets a mysterious end that none of the French Staff will discuss. Rumours report a duel between the two.

The French Army in Syria at first starts south but upon joining with the army from the south marching north form the Armee d’Outre Mer composed of the remains of Corps d’Hilliers (Vll Corps) and Corps Bugeaud (Vlll Corps) and the Sardinian/Italian contingents. They return to retake Beirut at the First Battle of Beirut (early February 1845), which is a French Victory.

A few days later they receive Mehmed Namık Pashas request for surrender. It is refused and strategic approaches to Beirut held outside the town, de Bedeau departs south by ship. There then occurs an epic Second Battle of Beirut (February 4th - 7th 1845).

7532
Beirut map circa 1841.

On the 4th the outlying garrisons are attacked at Jamhour, Broumana, and Juniyah. De Damas (who is now in charge) receives reports of the days fighting early in the morning of the 5th and is presented with French mid turn 'tactical' decision: Withdraw the outlying troops or support them? I enclose these excerpts from his diary that day:

"It is early in the morning. The calendar on the desk of General De Damas shows that February 5th has just begun. The commander of the French Armee d’Outre Mer sits at a castle near the harbor from where he has a good look at the sea and the eastern approach. In front of him lay the reports that came in last night.

The situation is confusing and there are many uncertainties. This is a different situation from what they teach in the military academy, where you have clear scenarios. This is confusion, this is reality, and this is war. Many gifted officers failed to handle this. De Dumas smiles and lights himself a pipe. Well, he has seen this before at Spain and always enjoyed these situations, when one quick decision will change the fortune of the battle.

He takes a look from the eastern window. Clouds cover the sky and light rain is falling. Somewhere out there his men are fighting. And the situation is confusing, in deed.
De Damas recalls the event that happened before he reached (the) Levant. D’Hilliers led his corps northwards and took Homs. Then he divided his troops and a sudden counterstrike took him by surprise. He had to give up his position, leaving almost half of his men behind. If reports are right, the Ottoman had had about 80,000 men. Battle went until November 10th. Then the French army had to retreat. The Turks did not follow, they had suffered casualties of about 40,000 men....

De Damas smiles. The key to this campaign is supply. Even though the heathen may have suffered casualties during the last days, they still may have between 50 and 70,000 men. To supply them, they have only two routes, the costal one from Latakia and the road from Homs. Ottoman ships will not dare to sail further south than Latakia. So the Ottoman army is several hundred miles from their bases. The coastal road can be bombarded by the French ships. So the Ottoman army has troubles with supply and they will increase day by day.

The Turks are already southeast of Beirut and they will soon reach the coast south of Beirut, if they haven’t already. But they will not be able to advance further south, not as long as Beirut is standing.

The French situation is more comfortable, at least regarding supply. The sea is controlled by the French Navy and the magazines are filled. Furthermore, the army is supported by four ships of the line, which may have more fire power than the whole Ottoman army.So it is time now to prepare the defense of Beirut..."

Sadly De Damas wistful thoughts do not hault the enemy. The outlying troops come in and an attack is launched south and east. Briefly the southern approaches are cleared but the French are forced to withdraw. Beirut comes under bombardment from the east and breaches in the walls are made, D'Hilliers is killed when a building collapses on him. When three breaches are made an assault is launched via the third and a gate opened, the Ottomans enter and De Damas is wounded and evacuated by ship to Jaffa. A ceasefire is called and on the 7th some of the surviving French (disarmed) are permitted to leave by ship. French/Sardinian Defeat.

The ships drops their human cargo at Cyprus before returning to Jaffa which they find already fallen. No word can be found of de Bedeau or De Damas.


French 'Garrisons' in Belgium and Holland

Early in the year a French army sets out 'garrison' the 'lowlands'. In Belgium their entry is regarded badly and in Holland negatively. Civilians are killed in Rotterdam and King William ll asks them to withdraw. They do so and return to Lille.


The French 'Second Wave'

Another enormous French 'Armada' leaves Toulon and Marseille early in March. They meet an Aegean Storm later that month and it takes them some time to regroup at Cyrpus where General Lamoriciere, who commands Vlll Corps meets General Bugeaud, the sole surviving General of the 'first wave'. Late in April they welcome the the Pope and advise him that Jerusalem may be in enemy hands. He appoints Bugeaud Knight Commander of the Military Order of Malta for his capture of Jerusalem in 1844 and helps them as much as he can before returning to Rome. He resolves the command dispute between Bugeaud and Lamoriciere when he asks Lamoriciere "When did you last visit Jerusalem or Cairo?". Lamoriciere bows to Bugeauds experince and they agree to defer to De Damas should he be found.

In May they move south to Egypt with Prince Ferdinand and the remaining Sardinians. The Second Battle of Alexandria is fought which is a French Victory. Part of the fleet returns north but is intercepted by an Egyptian fleet in a Sea Battle North of Alexandria. This is a French Marginal Defeat.

Bugeaud then endures a game of cat and mouse during which he loses a garrison at the Battle of Tanta which is a French Defeat. He realises that if he takes Cairo with the main enemy force still in the field he may lose Alexandria; essentialy his position in 1844 after he had taken Cairo. He will not make the same mistake again and decides to chose his own battleground and let the enemy come to him.

In July Bugeaud and Lamoriciere, with Prince Fedinand commanding at Alexandria are able to defeat two enemy armies at the The Battle of the Nile Delta which is a French 'Heroic' Victory.

Early in August the The Battle of Cyprus is fought which is a French/Greek Defeat.

The rest of the year passes without a serious engagement and the French fleet returns homeward in October. Bugeaud and the Prince advance again in November but are unable to bring to the Egyptians to battle. They withdraw to their lines and 'dig in' around Alexandria.


Prussia

It is a relatively quiet year for the Prussian army in the Balkans. They suffer heavy losses at the The Battle of Kesan (15 January 1845) which results in an Austrian/Prussian Defeat. They are able to withdraw to Xanthi with the Austrians and in February advance again and reoccupy Kesan. In October they are forced to withdraw again to Xanthi and miss the Second Battle of Edirne/Adrianople on 25th October which is fought by the Russian and Greek forces.


Austria

The Austrian movements dictate, to a large extent, the Prussian movements. The Archduke Charles is not present at The Battle of Kesan on 15th January but is involved in diplomatic talks in Plovdiv and Edirne. When the Austrians advance again in February he leaves a rearguard at Xanthi to fortify a defencive position. It is this that saves the Russian Czar and Paskevich from capture after the defeat at the Second Battle of Edirne/Adrianople in October.


Piedmont - Sardinia

Again the movements of Prince Ferdinand are mostly dictated by the French operations in the Levant and Egypt.


Britain and Empire

A British Indian force arrives at Damietta in November to join the engineers as a protection force.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________

ALL have detailed reports: Please say if you do not receive yours!

A list of some (about half) my calculations for this Chapter:

252 miles Jaffa to Cairo, message arrives 31st May.
7.4 days 260.64 nautical miles Lim to Alex
Baghdad to Damasus 853 km 530 miles 26.5 days. Depart 9th December.
Damascus to Aleppo 360 km 223 miles 11 days (6days messenger)
Baghdad to Palmyra 742 km 461 miles 23 days. Arrive Palmyra 4th Jan, messenger at Aleppo 9th. 16th back at Palmyra.
Palmyra to Aleppo 342 km 212 miles 11 days. 5 days messenger. Depart Aleppo 11th Jan
Medina to Aqaba 688 km (Tabuk) 427+ 75mile 25 days. Depart 3rd Jan. Arrive Aqaba 29th
Cairo to Taba 418 km 260 miles 13 days (7.5 days messenger) message recieved 6th Feb at Cairo. Depart 10th.
Aleppo to Tartus 280 km 174 miles 9 days Homs 18th Jan
Palmyra to Damascus 242 km 150 miles 8 days. Arrive Damascus 24th Jan.
Focsani to Braila 56 miles
Calarasi to Focsani 139 miles
245 mile Bucharest to Iasi
Warsaw to Kiev 503 miles 21.8 days.
Focsani to Bucharest 115 miles.
587.91 miles Warsaw to Bucharest. 24 days 24th May.
Edirne - Sliven 85 miles.
175 miles Buzau - Iasi. 184 miles Burgas- Plovdiv
Uzunkopru to Sliven 130 miles 6.5 days.
158 miles Sliven to Silistra
Silistra to Varna 87.6 miles
Edirne to Odessa 660 miles 18days orders arrive 19th Jan
Edirne to Varna 175 miles 4 days orders arrive 5th at Varna
Varna to Ploesti 206 miles 6days. Orders arrive Ploesti 9th.
Edirne to Bucharest 246 miles. 7 days Orders arrive Bucharest 8th Jan.
Bucharest to Vidin 200 miles 5 days. Orders arrive Vidin 13th Jan.
Varna to Iasi 333 miles. 9 days. Orders arrive Iasi 14th.
Bucharest to Varna (5000 men) 166 miles. 8 days.
Ploiesti to Iasi 220 miles. 6 days. Orders arrive Iasi 15th Jan
121 miles Ploesti to Silistra
Mosul to Catak 437 km Dep 1st Dec
Catak to Van 83 km
520kms = 323m 16 days 17 Dec
Odessa to Sevastopol 546 km, 339m orders arrive Sev 3rd Feb Kars 15th Feb
Sevastopol to Artvin 1,008 km 626m 31 days. Ivane Bagration of Mukhrani eta Kars 6th March
Agri to Van 257 km 159m 8 days

I hope to have Chapter 4 Part 2: Economic and Internal Affairs (Jan 1st 1845 to Jan 1st 1846) posted by next week.

[Arjos]

Superb! Both public and private once again ^^

OoC: I thought the exchanged aide-de-camps, would prevent those "allied tensions", apparently not lol
Still the whole conference was hilarious, I loved that mini-story...

[Greyblades]

OoC: I thought the exchanged aide-de-camps, would prevent those "allied tensions", apparently not lol

Really? that seems like a recipe for misinterpreted orders due to differences in languages to me, not to mention generals having to get used to new assistants in the middle of a war.

[Arjos]

OoC: those aides, were sent two years ago by now and at least the one I sent, speaks both russian and german...

BTW if SoFarSoGood or anyone else, has/wants to let other territorial changes to be known and edited in the map, PM me them...
I've already given more coast to the british in Africa, just waiting for possible changes, then I'll post it or PM it to the host, for part 2 maybe :)

[Greyblades]

Uh, does natalia even still exist?

[Prince Cobra]

Interesting Chapter... although it may take some time to figure out the private report. It seems lots of things did not go according to the plan.

Good work, SFSG!

[Prince Cobra]

One question SFSG... I see the dates in the updates are since 1st of January but our orders are enforced as of 15th of February, right?

[Arjos]

Uh, does natalia even still exist?

Since in our game, no action was taken against it (afaik), the republic should still exist...


our orders are enforced as of 15th of February, right?

Iirc, he stated that the orders need to travel from the capital/ruler's location, so they are issued on the 1st of January, but they will require time to reach their destination and being performed...

[Greyblades]

Since in our game, no action was taken against it (afaik), the republic should still exist...


I see, I will rectify this oversight shortly.

[SoFarSoGood]

One question SFSG... I see the dates in the updates are since 1st of January but our orders are enforced as of 15th of February, right?

Actualy there are two basic times: The time when orders arrive is when commanders on a front will start acting on their instructions (thus all my calculations for distance from Edirne - where the Czar issued his orders - to the Russian garrisons and other front). If the Monarch, unlike the Russian Czar or the King of the Greeks, is not on campaign orders are assumed to have been sent from the capital.

However secondly there are mid turn decisions: Three battles (Battle of Kesan, Battle of Tripoli and Fourth Battle of Varna) occured before orders arrived (well in the Varna battle actualy orders arrived mid way through the battle). One problem that Russians suffered from in early 1845 was that the early loss of Varna effectively made alot of their early orders meaningless: You can't gather small garrisons at a place occupied by a large enemy army but I digress... The point is that some 'mid turn decisions' can and were made before orders arrived from the central Government (the Prussian position at Kesan).

Basicly unless your King is nearby mid turn decisions are NOT made by the 'Government'. In a tactical or 'battle decision' for say the French in Syria the battle would over 2 - 2.5 months after the question arrived in Paris. These decisions are made by the commander on the ground. Even if they have received a Government 'order' like that which Hitler gave on the Eastern Front "no withdrawal" no sane commander is going to sacrifice his life or that of his troops holding a strategicaly useless place.

Basicaly 'orders' are a kind of idealised 'wish list' for commanders (in terms of revenue and investment they are less prone to error obviously) and the circumstances a general faces may not match up at all with the idealised vision. So the Russian orders to gather at Varna are in fact redundant 5 days into the year and much of the French orders to support Jaffa and Beirut made senseless before the reinforcements arrived (this was one of the reasons I had such trouble with this Chapter). So future I plan broaden the scope of and increase the number of mid turn decisions. In places where a whole plan is rendered senseless I shall ask (for example the French decision made at Cyprus to go for Egypt... should it have gone back to Syria?).

I aslo have a question: Warman wishes to play as Switzerland. Obviously he is banned from the forum so I am not sure how easily he contact other players. Anyway what are players thoughts? I have no objection and it seems easy enough to set up an email contact system which can exclude me (I don't think contacts between players should be known to me).

Finaly my own Generals Awards! Engelhardt for sheer doggedness and refusal to give in (how many times has taken/lost Varna?) and for finaly realising the importance of the Danube gets a glass eye (he lost one in 1844). Bugeaud, for capturing Jerusalem without bloodshed and for his brilliant defence of Alexandria at the battle of the Nile Delta gets a pint of Carlesberg.

7571

[Greyblades]

What about me? Unlike the rest of these I work through Parliament/the Cabinet, not the monarch.

[Franconicus]

What about me? Unlike the rest of these I work through Parliament/the Cabinet, not the monarch.
The answer is simple. All your orders will be discussed and rediscussed and turned upside down and when there is a compromise, you won't recognize your innitial intentions.
By the way, it is same here at France, just faster!


I aslo have a question: Warman wishes to play as Switzerland. Obviously he is banned from the forum so I am not sure how easily he contact other players. Anyway what are players thoughts? I have no objection and it seems easy enough to set up an email contact system which can exclude me (I don't think contacts between players should be known to me).
No way! We neither need Warman nor Switzerland.

When will we get the civil events?

[Kival]

I'm theoretically fine ith Warmen and Switzerland but I do know anything about this banned stuff. Having swizerland will be interesting but it will become crowded there. :laugh4:

[SoFarSoGood]

What about me? Unlike the rest of these I work through Parliament/the Cabinet, not the monarch.

Where does Parliament sit? London. Orders to India take a long time.

[Greyblades]

True, though with the technically I think it would be possible for me to set up a micro parliament close to any war front to make decisions at the scene.

[Kival]

True, though with the technically I think it would be possible for me to set up a micro parliament close to any war front to make decisions at the scene.

And monarchs can sent emmisaries...

[Arjos]

Well in theory, the East India Company, is in charge, with the parliament's trust. It has, however, to follow any legislation from London...

As for Warman, I have no problem personally. But there's the ban, now I don't know if it's meant to simply avoid posting, so it would be allowed for him to submit orders or not...

[SoFarSoGood]

When will we get the civil events?

This week coming. Have to go abroad for a few days but will take all the files with me and hope to have it up by Friday latest.

[Franconicus]

Don't hurry!

[Greyblades]

Uh, everything ok there SFSG?



Please dont be quiting, please dont be quiting, please dont be quitting...

[Franconicus]

Guess he needs some time to recover from the huge military chapters!

[Franconicus]

Maybe we can use the period until the next delivery for a small research upon the topic.

A short look at the internet gave me these population numbers (some are rough estimations though). Feel free to give better ones:

Population in millions in 1848:

France: 36
UK: 28 (maybe ireland is not in it)
Russia: 40 - 50
Austria: 30 - 35
Prussia: 15
Sardinia ?

Now some other important countries:

Arabian World (including Northern Africa and Western Asia) 12 - 15 million
some of this are:
Egypt: 3 - 4
Lybia: 0.3
Palestine: 0.3
Lebanon: 0.2
Syria: <1
Iraq: <2
Sudan: <1.5
Arabia ?

Ottoman Empire (only the area of modern Turkey): <11

[Greyblades]

Explains why france keeps blobbing in every game ever. You'd think that india would have more people than france just through landmass.

This guy (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25061-Historical-populations-of-Europe-changing-proportions)(second post) seems to give us this:


1) Russia : 62.4 million
2) Austria-Hungary : 34.9 million
3) France : 34 million
4) Germany : 32.5 million
5) Italy : 22 million
6) England + Wales : 16 million
7) Spain : 14 million
8) Ireland : 8.2 million
9) Belgium : 4.1 million
10) Sweden : 3.1 million
11) Netherlands : 2.9 million
12) Scotland : 2.5 million
13) Finland : 1.5 million
14) Denmark : 1.3 million
15) Norway : 1.2 million
16) Greece : 0.9 million

[Franconicus]

Indeed, that is the explanation, why France has always the best leaders.

Any numbers for "Turkey"?
Any news from SFSG? Hope he is fine!

[Greyblades]

Indeed, that is the explanation, why France has always the best leaders.

Any numbers for "Turkey"?
Any news from SFSG? Hope he is fine!
Of course, also why she always had the worst leaders too, for every Napoleon there is at least 100 Neys.
Bigger pot; more cream; even more scum.

[Franconicus]

How do we proceed?

[Greyblades]

Well first we find a good concrete wall, and then we beat our heads against it. This is the upteenth strategy forum game that's been skuppered.

[SwordsMaster]

Perhaps it quickly becomes too big a job to be done by only one person.

[Franconicus]

Well, we have different scenarios:

1) SFSG returns (=most prefered solution) and everybody is still willing to play.
It is strange that SFSG suddenly disappeared without a trace. Is he ill? Or banned? Very confusing!! Has anybody a contact to him??

2) Most of the players do not wish to go on playing (not most prefered solution). The game ends - again!

3) The players are still crazy to play and anotherone does the hosting. This could be me (as well as someone else). But we would need committment of at least seven players.

4) More and more players want to join the game (=unlikely scenario).
I think SFSG pointed out the meaning if the long distance like noone had done before. Furthermore the countries in the east became more important. We could have two hosts, one for the west, one for the east, with only little diplomacy between the two sides.

What do you think?

[Arjos]

I really hope number 1 happens lol

No idea what's up with SoFar, it's possible he simply can't log or doesn't have the time...

If he will be permanently unavailable as host, I'd really like to see the game hosted by anyone, but I don't like the idea of limited diplomacy...

[Franconicus]

Well, I thought only limited between east and west, as it already was.

[Greyblades]

What do you mean by east-west?

[Franconicus]

Sorry! I meant the 4th option.
Lately in the game we saw that the eastern coutries became more and more powerful and were actually the strongest block in the game. This gave some problems, as the host was referee and ruler of the east in one person.
To solve this, it would be helpful, to have one player for this superfaction. Even better would be to have several players for Ottomans, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Egypt. This, however, would raise more problems. First of all, we do not have the players. Second, it would go beyond the capacity of the host.
Therefore my thought was to have two hosts, one for the eastern factions and one for the western factions with only limited diplomacy between the two sides, for example between France and Iraq.

But that was just a mind game.

(How) do we go on?

[Arjos]

So did you mean limited diplomacy, between the eastern and western NPCs?
Though if a player wants to send a diplomatic mission to a far away country, I don't see why it should be illegal...

Anyway SoFar, never logged in the org, for a good two weeks now: hope he's ok!
If you are up to host, I'm fine with that, just let me know it and I will send the russian overall picture and the last internal affairs orders...

Still I have no problem waiting some more :)

[Franconicus]

Alright! If you want me to, I will take world dominance. Should s.o. not agree. please tell me!!

Therefore we need two things:

1) 2 players (France and Ottoman)

2) I need some info about your current status. Maybe you can answer these:

1) Your in role character's name
2) your legal constitution
3) your army strength and deployment
4) army losses during the last 3 years
5) your navy strength and deployment
6) conquered or lost territories
7) diplomatic agreements
8) railroads built
9) research programs finished or in progress (status)
10) other things.

[Arjos]

Want to hear if everyone is ok with it, but how are we proceeding with the non-military orders, waiting for a response this year?

[Franconicus]

Let's first gather the status quo. SFSG did a lot confidental - budget, army size etc.. So I have to get everything first. Then let's talk how to proceed.

[Kival]

Let's first gather the status quo. SFSG did a lot confidental - budget, army size etc.. So I have to get everything first. Then let's talk how to proceed.

I'm not sure if I even have all these infos, but I will check them.

[Arjos]

Details, I could remember, sent ^^
Will see what I can do to find players!

[rickinator9]

I would like to enter as Greece. Thank Arjos for that!

[Peasant Phill]

I may be willing to join again. I'll have to check the story so far before I request a nation.

[Franconicus]

It seems as if we have three new players, propably for France, Greece and Egypt.:2thumbsup:
Haven't heard anything from England and Austria, though.:no:

[The Stranger]

i will also play. i want to be china.

[Kival]

Haven't heard anything from England and Austria, though.:no:

If necessary I could change.

[The Celtic Viking]

Oooh, if Austria becomes free I would like to have that. Otherwise I'll have to think.

[Franconicus]

I would like to give a short status of the surprisingly recruitment phase:

England Greybaldes
France Csargo
Austria Prince Cobra
Prussia Swordsmaster
Russia Arjos
Greece rickinator9
Ottoman Empire Kival
Egypt Peasant Phill
China The Stranger
Celtic Viking United States of America

[The Stranger]

Empelol Umeu I is back :D I sell Chicken Fly Lice, who want buy? I give fail special plice just fol youuu!

[Prince Cobra]

I am still here, guys, though I may be only able to check my account during the weekend + Friday evening. If that's OK for you, I stay aboard. :)

[Greyblades]

Just confirming I'm still in as Britain

[Kival]

Ottoman is still available. Kival, would you like to become Sultan?

I could do it but being the enemy of everyone feels a little strange.

[Greyblades]

I could do it but being the enemy of everyone feels a little strange.

You wouldnt be my enemy,

[The Stranger]

I could do it but being the enemy of everyone feels a little strange.

nor mine :D

[Franconicus]

I received a lot of info, and it may take a while to read it!

[Arjos]

I'm fine with any addition and with everyone coming back :)

It also saves me going through the Austro-Russian planning for the fourth time lol

[Franconicus]

player list updated

[Franconicus]

I am almost through. As soon as I got the last data, I will post it here and we can start the game. SFSG did a lot of confidential stuff, which is certainly very realistic. I would like to change this, because it is more fun to see the whole game developing and in modern times most things cannot be kept secret.
So I want to lay open budget, debts, army and navy size.

[Kival]

So I want to lay open budget, debts, army and navy size.

You probably can't be persuaded not to do that? :quiet:

[Arjos]

I rather liked confidentiality too ^^

[The Stranger]

if you cannot be persuaded, as a compromise, can they be rough data? Such as army size aprox 500k - 600k (only the player would know the actual size, that could also be 650k for example) with perhaps the possibility to try to keep stuff hidden from other players?

[Franconicus]

Alright, so let' s say income and debt are published, army and navy only in rough numbers. This should be as close to reality as possible.

[Franconicus]

Sorry for the delay. We will start the game next week. Hope everybody has found out all important things about his country. If anybody has questions about the game, just post here or send me a pm.

[Greyblades]

I'm kinda in the need of someone to bounce ideas for this game off and ask for advice on things that I find myself unsure on what to do in, who isn't likely to use my questions as ways to gain information or give suggestions that further their own goals in this game (AKA one of you lot). I dont suppose anyone has any ideas where I would find such a thing?

[The Stranger]

ask the host?

[Greyblades]

I did for the last two hosts and I'm a bit nervous to badger franconius in case my quantity of questions contributed to thier stepping down/departure (I'm assuming that they went because the workload was too much, not that my badgering was so bad that it drove them away). Also I'm worried that he still holds a grudge over how I treated France the last few turns.

[Kival]

Great-Britain has to mistreat France, anything else would be strange. ~;)

[Greyblades]

Yup and now the France I've been annoying has become god. Oops.

[The Stranger]

in case ppl havent noticed yet, here is the new thread for the game :P

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?143115-LA-BELLE-EPOQUE-(a-sequel-to-the-CONCERT-OF-EUROPE)

[Kival]

I'd like to advocate a differenciation between in-game and out-of-game discussion per threads. NOt sure if this is allowed here but I always pefered it this way.

[Kival]

Did anyone here anything from Csargo?

[Franconicus]

Csargo posted today, so he must be alive!

[Greyblades]

Csargo posted today, so he must be alive!

Isn't this the third time we've given him a faction and he's been quiet?