View Full Version : The Scourge of Ephesus [Concluded]
Askthepizzaguy
01-15-2009, 04:50
The writeups seem to indicate I was a scummy character, without justification. As such, I won't be contributing to the discussion anymore.
Good luck, town. At the end of the game, you will see I was town all along. But because of the writeups I refuse to waste your time defending myself or distracting you. If you actually want my opinion, you will have to ask for it. Otherwise I am operating under the assumption that you think I'm guilty, and the night murder numbers will prove otherwise.
If you come around, contact me.
EDIT: Reason not being because I'm upset at being dead or wrongly accused, but because I choose not to be a distraction to town post-mortem. Although the ambiguous/scummy behavior written for me in the writeup does not jive with the information I was given.
Oh well, bad luck on the dices. I suppose I can confirm that I was a townie all along, as was perfectly clear. Anyways, good game.
"Before I go," Jolt started, "I would like to thank my travel agent, for arranging this wonderful holliday. I mean, it all looked so real, the drama, the blood. You guys are fantastic actors. And the scenery! Wonderful! When I asked my travel agent to give me a special treatment, I didn't quite expect this. You there with the blade, can I take one last picture from you? You're so good, man!"
"The gun or the blade, you idiot!"
"Hahahaha! You guys don't know when to stop, do you? Fantastic! F-A-N-T-A-S-T-I-C ! If this were a movie, you'd all get a nomination for..."
The athletic man took the blade and with a blow quick as lightning, he chopped of Jolts' head.
:laugh4: great write-up Andres.
Our lynches are getting worse by the looks of things :no:
RIP Jolt
Quintus.JC
01-15-2009, 17:59
Jolt didn't look the type... but who knows, nothing is certain in this game.
Seamus Fermanagh
01-15-2009, 22:34
Keep this vote in mind, folks, as well as the last moment changes that created such a tie.
There will be no conclusive evidence from this one vote, but placed in context with others and other comments, it could well prove valuable.
G'night.
The Scourge of Ephesus - Night 5 - Conclusion
https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Org/Efes-GateofAugustus.jpg
The Gate of Augustus - 0.30 am
A man dressed in black wandered around in the vicinity of the Augustus' gate.
He touched his chest and remembered the old wounds.
"I've only just begun to fight!"
A sickening laugh could be heard over the archeological site. When it stopped, there was only silence. Even the wind stopped blowing.
The man ran away.
***
https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Org/Efese-Prytaneion.jpg
The Prytaneion - 2.00 am
Quintus.JC couldn't sleep and so, he went to the Prytaneion that night.
"What a mess! What a bloody mess! Why are we all following those idiots? That athletic man and the old guy, only the stars know how much they annoy me! Like they know everything. Nothing is certain here. Nothing! Well, except for one thing, the heat. Why has it to be so damn hot!"
"Are you sure that is the only certainty?"
Quintus.JC turned around and saw a man, lurking in the shadows.
"Did you follow me?"
"So it seems... Or was that a rethorical question?"
"Did it sound like a rethorical question?"
"That certainly is a rethorical question!"
"Stop playing games!"
"But this is a game!"
"No, it's not, it's serious and it's about life and dead!"
"Dead... Everybody has to die, no?
"Well, eventually, yes."
"Aha! That's another certainty! You lied about there not being certainties, except the heat!"
"Are you calling me a liar?"
"Liars need to die!"
The man drew a silenced gun and shot Quintus.JC in the head. The man slowly walked to the body and looked at Quintus.JC surprised expression of unbelieve.
"Don't give me that look. You guys have been lynching each other for far sillier reasons than that."
Two more bullets reduced Quintus.JC face to pulp.
The killer lit a cigarette and slowly walked away.
***
https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Org/Efese-Odeion.jpg
The Odeion - 2.00 am
A man was hiding in the shadows when he saw his target slowly walking into the Odeion.
He jumped out of his hiding spot.
To his surprise, the target wasn't surprised.
"I'm not so easy to kill, you fool!"
The target kicked the attacker on his right knee. A fist in his face put him down. Another kick on his right hand and the silenced gun was floating through the air.
The target took some distance, allowing the attacker to get up again.
"You're good. Very good," the attacker said, nodding respectfully to his target.
He then quickly turned around, picked up his gun and ran away, yelling:
"But you won't be so lucky next time!"
"Next time... Next time you die..." the target said.
***
The Scourge of Ephesus - Day 5
https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Org/Efese-Hadrianus.jpg
The temple of Hadrianus - 8.00 am
The old man stood at the temple of Hadrianus. He seemed agitated and talked fast, making large gestures.
"Another one! I found another body! Quintus.JC! I had a hard time identifying him, since his face was one bloody mess! Things are starting to look bad! When will this nightmare end? We are doomed! I tell you all, we are doomed!"
"Oh shut up, old man," one of the tourists said.
"Please, have some respect for old age," the athletic man intervened. "It seems like our work isn't finished yet. Let's discuss these last events and try to find ourselves a suspect, shall we?"
The tourists started to become angry with the athletic man; they wouldn't accept his authority for much longer.
***
Alive (18)
boudica
GeneralHankerchief
seireikhaan
shlin28
Tiberius of the Drake
187Beefyz
Chaotix27
YLC
Sigurd
woad&fangs
Yoyoma1910
Ibn-Khaldun
Lord Winter
CountArach
Caius
El Diablo
Glyphz
Seamus Fermanagh
Killed (6) :
777Ares777
TheFlax
White_Eyes :D
Reenk Roink
Askthepizzaguy
Quintus.JC
Lynched (4) :
TinCow
Tevashzat
FactionHeir
Jolt
WoG/Suicide (2):
Rythmic
Ignoramus
It's now day. You can start voting. Day will last for +/- 24 hours.
GAH! When will it end? Why do I so accurately guess who is going to die each night? I say :daisy: you to the mafia, and the Vig/SK - stop trying to frame me, I'm not your shield! If I say I want Sigurd dead tonight, what are you going to do? If I say Boudica, what will you do?
*breathes* I see the win in front of me, and oh how bitter does it taste...
GeneralHankerchief
01-15-2009, 23:41
Sigurd and boudica blocked this round. Awaiting feedback PM. Leaning towards Sigurd.
-edit- Feedback PM received, nothing out of the ordinary.
GeneralHankerchief
01-15-2009, 23:45
Vote: Sigurd
I'll give my case in a few hours.
Reenk Roink
01-15-2009, 23:46
Are none of you even remotely wondering why GeneralHankerchief remains alive? :inquisitive:
GeneralHankerchief
01-15-2009, 23:48
Wait, seriously? :dizzy2:
woad&fangs
01-15-2009, 23:50
I was under the assumption that he is who he says he is because people came forward to say that they were indeed blocked when he claimed they were. I don't think that I've ever seen a neutral/scum role be a roleblocker.
Reenk Roink
01-15-2009, 23:50
Wait, seriously? :dizzy2:
Yes...
I don't dispute that he is the roleblocker. I seriously question his alignment and his continued survival...
And it really wouldn't be out of the ordinary to have a Mafia team with a roleblocker (Mafia need to neutralize pro town and Reenkesque roles...).
GeneralHankerchief
01-15-2009, 23:57
Well, I can't really say anything to counter that statement. The PM I received didn't specifically mention my alignment, thus, I'm assuming I'm pro-town. If I'm not, that's the way I've been playing, and that's the way I intend to continue playing.
GeneralHankerchief
01-16-2009, 00:02
Timestamp was 18:01, my time:
It seems like your role pm needs some clarification: you are indeed pro-town.
:bow:
Reenk Roink
01-16-2009, 00:12
I've been thinking about it a bit more and am a little more open to your pro-town status GH. Not due to the supposed PM from Andres or anything, just that it seems reasonable that Mafia would let someone like you live to discredit him. It has happened before with detectives, and there would be much less of a risk involved with a role that can't (directly) point our the Mafia.
Still, if you're alive and there's 3 people left... :beam:
Beefy187
01-16-2009, 01:19
I trust GH. and I think its your nature to go after GH Reenk, so I trust you too.
CountArach
01-16-2009, 03:02
The thought process of the mafia may be that GH is likely to be protected by a Doctor and as such he is staying alive. I am almost certain that we can trust GH - I find the idea of a mafia roleblocker to be unlikely/
Vote: Abstain for now, as we've got virtually no good leads, and I don't want to be WoG bait if Andres ends the phase before I can vote tomorrow.
woad&fangs
01-16-2009, 04:56
vote: Sigurd
why? Because GH said he had a case against him. If school is cancelled again tomorrow because of life threatening cold(O the joys of Wisconsin) then I'll change my vote. If I have school, I probably won't be able to participate for the rest of the day phase.
GeneralHankerchief
01-16-2009, 05:48
why? Because GH said he had a case against him.
Okay, I'll admit it's not much. But it's just a general feeling I've had for a couple of days now combined with a few little signs in the thread.
First of all his post count is way way low. At the time of this writing, he has 7 total, and two of them were made before the game officially started. There are two types of Sigurd that I remember, although this may be inaccurate/out of date. The first is the Sigurd with the high post count. This thread play means that he's either a dead/confirmed innocent and doing everything he can to screw over the mafia, or the "crazy townie", walking a fine line between safety and lynching and generally surviving for a long time. The second is the Sigurd with a low post count, playing more cautiously. Going by my memory, this is more likely to be mafia.
Now, Sigurd's given a couple of valid reasons for his inactivity, like .Org database failure, timezone differences, and work (including Gameroom duties). That's fine, perfectly acceptable. But stuff doesn't add up.
I'd like to call attention to this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2105164#post2105164), when he joined in on the bandwagon against me a few rounds back. One of the stated reasons was that I wasn't griping about not being a mafioso anymore, unlike Midgard. At the time, my quick defense of it was "Well, I got a bad guy role in khaan's Spirit Mafia", plus, of course, the Golden Rule game. However, Spirit Mafia got me thinking.
Sigurd has said several times across multiple threads that as part of his duties as Gameroom Assistant Moderator, he had to read every post. He's had this job since September 4th (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=107412), when Tosa made the announcement. Spirit Mafia, however, ended (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2019767&postcount=396) on September 20th. If Sigurd had to read every post, surely the post-game role reveals and such from Spirit Mafia would be included in that, meaning that he would know perfectly well that I had been a mafioso before.
Now, of course, this line of argument isn't perfect. But I think this potential oversight, combined with the fact that I usually associate a low post count with mafiosery from him, combined with the fact that on both nights I've blocked him there has only been one kill, makes me think that he's a better lynch than anybody for today.
Since we're discussing/comparing activity on and off this game...
Posts:
Caius 6
Lord Winter 5
seireikhaan 5
Tiberius of the Drake 5
Vote: seireikhaan
@YLC: Do you plan on telling us why you voted for Yoyoma?
Tally:
Sigurd: 2 (General Hankerchief, woad&fangs)
Yoyoma1910: 1 (YLC)
seireikhaan: 1 (glyphz)
Abstain: Chaotix27)
Interesting case GH, I haven't played with Sigurd enough to know better, but that does seem to fit my experience with him based on Spirit Mafia and Prometheus.
Unvote:Yoyoma
Vote: Sigurd
Also, not a stab at the big guy, but isn't "Gunnar" Nowegian?
GeneralHankerchief
01-16-2009, 06:34
glyphz, I'd attribute a lot of khaan's absence to hosting Chicago Soiree.
Yoyoma1910
01-16-2009, 06:39
@YLC: Do you plan on telling us why you voted for Yoyoma?
Probably for those overlooked hours of research I spent on that dang statue.
I have no idea how to vote at this point.
glyphz, I'd attribute a lot of khaan's absence to hosting Chicago Soiree.
Indeed. But if I were to pick between duties between host and moderator, I'd guess a moderator's work is 'heftier?'
HUGE emphasis on 'guess,' as I know nothing about being one or the other
and certainly not belittling the effort/sacrifices made of hosting and maintaining a (large) mafia game
Besides I have a lot of respect for the moderators (and how they operate and maintain things) here in TheOrg, compared to other TotalWar sites.:rolleyes:
CountArach
01-16-2009, 06:45
That's an interesting theory GH. I personally shall Vote: Abstain for the moment, until I hear Sigurd's defence.
First of all his post count is way way low. At the time of this writing, he has 7 total, and two of them were made before the game officially started. There are two types of Sigurd that I remember, although this may be inaccurate/out of date. The first is the Sigurd with the high post count. This thread play means that he's either a dead/confirmed innocent and doing everything he can to screw over the mafia, or the "crazy townie", walking a fine line between safety and lynching and generally surviving for a long time. The second is the Sigurd with a low post count, playing more cautiously. Going by my memory, this is more likely to be mafia.
Now, Sigurd's given a couple of valid reasons for his inactivity, like .Org database failure, timezone differences, and work (including Gameroom duties). That's fine, perfectly acceptable. But stuff doesn't add up.
I hope there are more than two play styles to my name. I try to act a little differently in every game I am in. However, as you point out, my post count is low. I am in more than one game this time. One reason is trying to be the responsible AM. Ya know, to give support to the games and their hosts. This is a new experience for me and I find it is stretching my capability.
I'd like to call attention to this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2105164#post2105164), when he joined in on the bandwagon against me a few rounds back. One of the stated reasons was that I wasn't griping about not being a mafioso anymore, unlike Midgard. At the time, my quick defense of it was "Well, I got a bad guy role in khaan's Spirit Mafia", plus, of course, the Golden Rule game. However, Spirit Mafia got me thinking.
Sigurd has said several times across multiple threads that as part of his duties as Gameroom Assistant Moderator, he had to read every post. He's had this job since September 4th (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=107412), when Tosa made the announcement. Spirit Mafia, however, ended (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2019767&postcount=396) on September 20th. If Sigurd had to read every post, surely the post-game role reveals and such from Spirit Mafia would be included in that, meaning that he would know perfectly well that I had been a mafioso before.
I suspected you had a role in this game as did pizzaguy and hewas right. A GH without a role usually makes more noise. I would have unvoted you had I been on.
Now, of course, this line of argument isn't perfect. But I think this potential oversight, combined with the fact that I usually associate a low post count with mafiosery from him, combined with the fact that on both nights I've blocked him there has only been one kill, makes me think that he's a better lynch than anybody for today.
I might be a candidate, but you and the rest of us needs to compare what we know to what we learn trough the night reports.
You protected me and Quintus on the first night and me and boudica this night.
On the first night there was only one kill, most likely by one of the mafia. Compared to the other nights we lack two killers; the shadow vigilante and the other mafioso.
This night lacked only the shadow vigilante. There was the murder of Quintus, which would put the suspicion on me for being the other mafia that were blocked on night one.
This last night had two attempts with guns. I suspect that YLC is the vigilante aka the athletic man and that he possibly was attacked this night by the second mafioso. YLC's night action was canceled as he dodged the killer. You mentioned something about a report from Andres and that it said nothing of value. Do you suspect it will say something important if you in fact do investigate a killer?
I will not retaliate against you since your role is by far more valuable for the town than my vanilla townie role. I can do my analysis dead as alive. Being killed by mafia is the best option since I will be more or less confirmed innocent.
I do however question the decision of not even trying to take you out as you are a threat to any bad guy in this game. Are you communicating with players outside this game? Do you discuss with others your choice of blocks? Have you learned that attempts have been made on the players you protect?
We need to figure out if the athletic man/shadow killer, which I think is YLC, is bad for town. Up until now he has killed twice. Does he investigate on the nights he is not killing? that would count for night one and two and five.
I firmly believe that the two gun killers are very much alive as can be seen in last night's report.
Glyphz has a point. Seireikhaan is not active at all in this game and he was inactive, I think, before he started his game.
I get the feeling he is intentionally keeping a low profile. Is he hiding a pro-town role or a mafia role?
vote: seireikhaan
Sigurd, no offense, but I am not the Vigilante/Serial Killer/Athletic Man/Manfredo. I'm a normal bloody townie who has gotten each night kill right is all - most likely by the fact I announce whom I wish dead, and voile, it's done. I suspect of course that if I name you as my next hit wish, you won't die however. In which case, I would gladly opt for boudica, or even Yoyoma.
Sigurd, no offense, but I am not the Vigilante/Serial Killer/Athletic Man/Manfredo. I'm a normal bloody townie who has gotten each night kill right is all - most likely by the fact I announce whom I wish dead, and voile, it's done. I suspect of course that if I name you as my next hit wish, you won't die however. In which case, I would gladly opt for boudica, or even Yoyoma.
Yet, you made a veiled threat to Reeink Roink about an ability to end his life via vote or some night ability. Was this just a bluff?
Yet, you made a veiled threat to Reeink Roink about an ability to end his life via vote or some night ability. Was this just a bluff?
I explained that earlier, before Pizzaguy buried it under his nonsense. I made that threat based on two things - a bluff, and to carry it out by drilling him during the night. Oddly, he died that night, and then when I made a statement about Pizzaguy, he too then died, quickly followed by QJC when I said something again. I've asked for either boudica's, Yoyoma's, or your head this night - I wonder who will be picked?
Lord Winter
01-16-2009, 09:42
I havn't been home all day and I have a paper to write now. I'll read the thread tommarow and post my options then. For now:
Vote: Abstain
I explained that earlier, before Pizzaguy buried it under his nonsense. I made that threat based on two things - a bluff, and to carry it out by drilling him during the night. Oddly, he died that night, and then when I made a statement about Pizzaguy, he too then died, quickly followed by QJC when I said something again. I've asked for either boudica's, Yoyoma's, or your head this night - I wonder who will be picked?
Care to explain? Is this an ability you have in this game, or am I just not able to interpret what you mean. Drilling someone during the night ... ehm, I get a disturbing picture here - :wiseguy:
I explained that earlier, before Pizzaguy buried it under his nonsense. I made that threat based on two things - a bluff, and to carry it out by drilling him during the night. Oddly, he died that night, and then when I made a statement about Pizzaguy, he too then died, quickly followed by QJC when I said something again. I've asked for either boudica's, Yoyoma's, or your head this night - I wonder who will be picked?A bluff?!~:shock:
Pretty much pegged you as a vigilante, based on your exchange with Reenk , his demise(back then, you also dodged questions whether you were responsible), & later on Atpg's.
Care to explain? Is this an ability you have in this game, or am I just not able to interpret what you mean. Drilling someone during the night ... ehm, I get a disturbing picture here - :wiseguy:
Drilling = Questioning to death Sigurd. Even the insane have to utter something of sense once in awhile. Get your mind out of the gutter, there's only one person I'd do that to.
I am a plain town, and I have never professed to be anything else. But I never really tried to defend myself and dodged all questioning because it would have ended up being a WIFOM me argument. Why the sudden focus on me Sigurd? It's common knowledge I am nothing but a townie, even Reenk knows that.
Drilling = Questioning to death Sigurd. Even the insane have to utter something of sense once in awhile. Get your mind out of the gutter, there's only one person I'd do that to.
I am a plain town, and I have never professed to be anything else. But I never really tried to defend myself and dodged all questioning because it would have ended up being a WIFOM me argument. Why the sudden focus on me Sigurd? It's common knowledge I am nothing but a townie, even Reenk knows that.
Sorry it was not common to me...
But my question remains unanswered; is the vigilante bad for town?
It seems he got rid of some shady players (no offense RR and Pizza). That Pizza has opted to drop out of the discussion should be some basis to indicate a pro-town alignment for the vigilante. RR will continue to seed doubts and smokescreens if he was a bad guy and would continue to be helpful if he was pro town.
seireikhaan
01-16-2009, 14:28
Sorry for the inactivity guys- the combination of hosting the large game, getting back to UNI, frantically trying finish my application for RA, work, and the intimidatingly large amount of white noise I've had to read through in both this game and my own had made actually trying to get something constructive done almost impossible. I won't suicide; that's bad for the town, after all.
Vote: Abstain
woad&fangs
01-16-2009, 15:58
-35 F with wind chill.
I'll be here today.
My vote is going to stay on Sigurd for now because there was only 1 kill on the nights that he was blocked. I would like to here more from Boudica. New players make me paranoid.
Ibn-Khaldun
01-16-2009, 16:20
Actually, I suspect Yoyoma. So, I Vote: Yoyoma
seireikhaan
01-16-2009, 17:07
-35 F with wind chill.
I'll be here today.
:shifty:
At least you get off today. Someone else still had to go to classes and still has to go to work. :wall:
-25 F here.:wall:
...I won't suicide; that's bad for the town, after all.
Vote: Abstain
Not if you're mafia it's not. And then in the next post you start talking about the weather and school!
smells like a windy bluff.
vote: seireikhaan
GeneralHankerchief
01-16-2009, 17:56
Responding to Sigurd a bit out of order.
I do however question the decision of not even trying to take you out as you are a threat to any bad guy in this game. Are you communicating with players outside this game? Do you discuss with others your choice of blocks? Have you learned that attempts have been made on the players you protect?
I don't let anybody know who my blocks are going to be for fear of the mafia finding out and acting accordingly. One person last night PM'd me with a choice of suggestion - I was noncommittal. Last night I also did PM one random person with my blocks relatively late in the night phase; with the intent of me dying, they would pass on my selections to you all. If that person said nothing, I would know that they were mafia and strongly hint in the thread as much. That's all I intend to do, for as you well know, I heavily distrust "pro-town" groups.
Also, Andres told me that if there was an attempt on of my protectees' lives, it would be narrated in the thread.
On the first night there was only one kill, most likely by one of the mafia. Compared to the other nights we lack two killers; the shadow vigilante and the other mafioso.
This night lacked only the shadow vigilante. There was the murder of Quintus, which would put the suspicion on me for being the other mafia that were blocked on night one.
This last night had two attempts with guns. I suspect that YLC is the vigilante aka the athletic man and that he possibly was attacked this night by the second mafioso. YLC's night action was canceled as he dodged the killer. You mentioned something about a report from Andres and that it said nothing of value. Do you suspect it will say something important if you in fact do investigate a killer?
I doubt it will. I've blocked for five nights now and have almost certainly hit at least one mafioso by now. I think the only clue will be is if there's an attack attempt.
I suspected you had a role in this game as did pizzaguy and hewas right. A GH without a role usually makes more noise. I would have unvoted you had I been on.
The problem, Sigurd, is that you knew I had been a bad guy in Spirit Mafia and still pushed the line of argument that I wasn't mentioning the fact that I wasn't a mafioso. Midgard was the only time I ever brought this up. So, after finally getting an anti-town role in September, I think that was more than enough to keep me satisfied until January (December, really, because of ATPG's game), especially since I didn't play much between then and now.
Pizzaguy thought I was mafia, not that I just more generally had a role. You agreed with that point, not the more general one. That's why it doesn't all add up.
Reenk Roink
01-16-2009, 18:05
Drilling = Questioning to death Sigurd. Even the insane have to utter something of sense once in awhile. Get your mind out of the gutter, there's only one person I'd do that to.
I am a plain town, and I have never professed to be anything else. But I never really tried to defend myself and dodged all questioning because it would have ended up being a WIFOM me argument. Why the sudden focus on me Sigurd? It's common knowledge I am nothing but a townie, even Reenk knows that.
So many problems with this... :laugh4:
I would have loved the "questioning to death"; more material for my role and it would have probably got you going the way of TinCow when he tried to do the same. :2thumbsup: :yes:
Had you not been lynched by the mob, I would have probably gotten rid of you myself if I felt you weren't helpful to my and the towns cause.
It isn't common knowledge that you are anything by the way, and don't purport things I don't believe. I think there is a chance you may be bluffing in some way to get back at me because you somehow thought I was 'unhelpful' and 'confusing' (maybe to you I really was, but I would gladly accept that consequence to carry out my mission). However, I do think you certainly could be a killer or even Mafia. Nothing exonerates you yet, and there is certainly some evidence against you.
The only thing we can be somewhat convinced of is GeneralHankerchief's roleblocking ability, though I still have my doubts (and doubts about my own doubts) on if he is with the town.
Yoyoma1910
01-16-2009, 18:43
Unvote: shlin28
Vote: Jolt
I just did not want to see 6 people to get lynched.
Yes, but we can never know when you have some devious plan to kill 6 people.. well.. in-game that is. :clown:
No.
But it's better to lynch someone ourselves then let game host to randomly pick one.
After carefully thinking this through I Unvote: Jolt and Vote: Abstain
today:
Actually, I suspect Yoyoma. So, I Vote: Yoyoma
That's funny, because I find your activity from the last round suspicious, as well as your phasing of how you find me suspicious.
I voted for Jolt because he said that he couldn't be mafia, since he wasn't around on the weekends. As if he couldn't presend his selection of targets. He chose to play this game, already knowing his own schedule, but not knowing his alignment. His argument, while he may have thought it valid, was a fallacy.
You voted, Shlin, because he thought there should be more pressure on you, then Jolt, to ensure who would be lynched. When this came under suspicion, you changed your vote to nothing. You move like a serpent, and you speak with a tongue that is forked.
Now you "suspect Yoyoma." May I ask at least why you would suspect him (which is me, although who it is matters little, in the sense that everyone should be under suspicion)?
Jack-Boot-of-Suspicion:Ibn-Khaldun
I voted for Jolt because he said that he couldn't be mafia, since he wasn't around on the weekends. As if he couldn't presend his selection of targets. He chose to play this game, already knowing his own schedule, but not knowing his alignment. His argument, while he may have thought it valid, was a fallacy.
This was my first game, and I had no clue what could non-townies do in the beginning (As I was assigned to being a townie).
Secondly, I never said I couldn't be the Mafia. I just noted (And it is a fact, thus not an argument)
that I was unavailable during the three supposed mafia kills, day, therefore exempting me from the kills (Since I was unaware that targets could be pre-sent.)
Thirdly, I had no clue I could presend a selection of targets (I suppose since I don't know what is to be a mafioso, and it would be rather odd to start killing left and right without knowing the evidences.) without knowing if I was under suspicion or not (That is wierd, since that way anyone could avoid WoG).
Since I didn't know the "preselection" of targets was a possibility for a mafioso renders my argument quite valid. Even if the argument was not valid for some, it became quite clear in the write-up of my death, that my character thought the whole thing was faked. >_> Clearing any doubts as to what allignment I had.
Yoyoma1910
01-16-2009, 21:01
I believe you, I'm not saying you are a guilty party, however when someone tells me they couldn't be mafia because they don't meet the qualifications, a red light goes off.
No one really knows what other people know. And in law, ignorance is not a plea.
Many players try to make themselves seem more ignorant in order to hide their skills, especially ones who people aren't very familiar with. People do this is life too. It's how pool sharks make their money.
Quintus.JC
01-16-2009, 22:37
Mmmm... Looks like a open coffin funeral is out of the question.
The problem, Sigurd, is that you knew I had been a bad guy in Spirit Mafia and still pushed the line of argument that I wasn't mentioning the fact that I wasn't a mafioso. Midgard was the only time I ever brought this up. So, after finally getting an anti-town role in September, I think that was more than enough to keep me satisfied until January (December, really, because of ATPG's game), especially since I didn't play much between then and now.
I have checked the game in question. I must admit I didn't remember it when I made my comments. I stand corrected. I made an erroneous evaluation of your track record.
Pizzaguy thought I was mafia, not that I just more generally had a role. You agreed with that point, not the more general one. That's why it doesn't all add up.
Yes I agreed with pizzaguy, thinking Andres would have favourized you as mafioso. It had been suficient time since your last comments of not being a mafioso. My brain told me that Andres could have given you a sinister role.
Still... I would hold on to my claim that I can't be mafia. The mafia hits were all in the night report. And no block of a killer were mentioned there. You are lynching an innocent with three votes. I am more suspicious of seireikhann now that he has opted to abstain as if waiting to cast the final vote on me should he tie.
[edit]: Wait.. am I in the wrong about the tally? I have not kept one this round.
Too busy to read through thread now, Vote: Ibn Khadun, for his votes without explainations last round.
Yoyoma1910
01-16-2009, 22:46
No answer, and I probably won't be back before the end of the day phase, so:
vote:Ibn-Khaldun
Yoyoma1910
01-16-2009, 22:49
Shlin, how do you always slip your posts in on me?
Maybe I should think less and type faster, as I spend like 5 minutes just thinking how to phrase 1 :daisy: line.
Anyway, I didn't see Shlin's post before I posted mine.
Ibn-Khaldun
01-16-2009, 22:50
I don't need to explain myself. (Because I can't prove that Yoyoma is one of the mafia who I think she is)
And when you lynch me you will lynch another townie.
I guess I was wrong about the tally...
tally:
seireikhaan: 3 (boudica, Sigurd, Glyphz)
Sigurd: 3 (GH, YLC, w&f)
Ibn Khadun: 2 (Shlin, Yoyoma)
Abstain: 3 (seireikhaan, Chatorix, Lord Winter)
Not voting: 6 (Tiberius, Beefy, CountA, Caius, El Diablo, Seamus)
I don't need to explain myself. (Because I can't prove that Yoyoma is one of the mafia who I think she is)
And when you lynch me you will lynch another townie.
You are not exactly in danger of being lynched just yet. But I am and would welcome any theories you might have. Why do you suspect Yoyoma is mafia?
Quintus.JC
01-16-2009, 23:16
After reading through the thread quickly I would probably vote for Ibu-Khaldun if I were alive, but there is no certainty about his aligement. Only one thing is certain, the mafia will surely strike again unless you do something about it.
Voting concluded.
Stand by for execution.
Yeesh, you're all being foolish. For once, you've got actual evidence before you. We've got a confirmed role blocker. The confirmation comes from multiple people receiving night PMs from Andres, which are impossible for GH to fake. Thus, GH's ability to block is confirmed, and his pro-town nature is almost guaranteed (almost, because I never consider anything to be an absolute in mafia).
GH has produced evidence that there were fewer kills on nights when Sigurd, Quintus, and boudica were blocked. This evidence is very decent and is vastly superior to lynching based on posting and voting patterns. Get your heads out of your :daisy: and lynch the people listed above.
Reenk Roink
01-16-2009, 23:46
Yeesh, you're all being foolish. For once, you've got actual evidence before you. We've got a confirmed role blocker. The confirmation comes from multiple people receiving night PMs from Andres, which are impossible for GH to fake. Thus, GH's ability to block is confirmed, and his pro-town nature is almost guaranteed (almost, because I never consider anything to be an absolute in mafia).
How do your previous statements AT ALL imply the bolded part?
Yeesh, you're all being foolish. For once, you've got actual evidence before you. We've got a confirmed role blocker. The confirmation comes from multiple people receiving night PMs from Andres, which are impossible for GH to fake. Thus, GH's ability to block is confirmed, and his pro-town nature is almost guaranteed (almost, because I never consider anything to be an absolute in mafia).
GH has produced evidence that there were fewer kills on nights when Sigurd, Quintus, and boudica were blocked. This evidence is very decent and is vastly superior to lynching based on posting and voting patterns. Get your heads out of your :daisy: and lynch the people listed above.
I am never lucky with dice...
But you are wrong. You should know better. The mafia can opt for not killing and make false clues such as this to slip under the radar. You have used it yourself in other games.
Besides Quintus is already dead.
GH said so himself... He was waiting for the feedback PM before making the vote. When it did not reveal anything he voted me based on gut feeling.
Seireikhaan is probably innocent. Should he survive I would let him live. Nobody plays that balsy if they are mafia.
How do your previous statements AT ALL imply the bolded part?
My previous statements don't, but I'll be happy to explain my line of thought. First, we know GH can role block because it has been confirmed by many people, too many for them all to be mafia. Second, role blocking is not an ability that is likely to be given to mafia. Third, the descriptions of the old man in the write-ups appear anything but scummy.
As I specifically stated, this does not mean GH absolutely is pro-town. This is an Andres mafia game, so it's certainly possible he could be mafia or neutral. However, the evidence I see points strongly to pro-town at this point in time. If evidence appears that disputes GH's allegiance to the town, I will reassess the situation then.
I am never lucky with dice...
But you are wrong. You should know better. The mafia can opt for not killing and make false clues such as this to slip under the radar. You have used it yourself in other games.
Besides Quintus is already dead.
GH said so himself... He was waiting for the feedback PM before making the vote. When it did not reveal anything he voted me based on gut feeling.
Of course they can opt to not kill. Sheer probability suggests that most, if not all, of the 3 of you are townies. However, this is the only solid evidence that exists in the game right now. Everything else is the usual analysis of posting patterns. If mafia has taught me anything, it's that hard evidence is ALWAYS better to work on than hunches and post-analysis. The games I have won as mafia have largely been because I was able to get the town to ignore the evidence and vote based on less solid leads.
At the current time, the evidence shows people being blocked on nights that there were fewer kills. I challenge anyone to tell me what evidence there is out there right now that is stronger than this.
The Scourge of Ephesus - Day 5 - Conclusion
https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Org/Efese-Hadrianus.jpg
The Temple of Hadrianus - 9.00 pm
The tourists started to discuss again. Allthough tensions where high and many a tourist raised his voice, the attentive observer couldn't lose the impression that they made less noise than before. Probably because they were getting few in numbers.
At the end of the day, two men were put forward.
Sigurd and seireikhaan were standing in the last sunlight of that day. Sweat on their foreheads. They stared at each other.
"Ok," the athletic man said, "guess I'll have to flip a coin."
Both suspects kept silent as the coin was being flipped.
The athletic man grabbed the coin, stared at it for a brief moment and then looked at seireikhaan. "It seems like you are lucky today."
"No!" Sigurd yelled, "This cannot be true! I'm innocent! You are all making a terrible mistake! A terrible mistake!"
"Shut up!" the tourists said. One of them yelled: "I've had about bloody enough of these messed up lynchings with suspects who don't want to accept their fate like real men!"
"Ok, ok, please. Calm down," the old man said. "No yelling. It hurts!"
"I don't care if it hurts," another tourist said, giving the old man a kick against his leg.
"Stop it!" the athletic man said. "The condemned is allowed to chose between the gun and the blade, so please, shut up and let the choice be made!"
"No!" the tourist who had just slapped the old man said. "No! No! No! WE do the lynching!"
The other tourists nodded in agreement and they all pushed aside the athletic man, grabbing his sword and gun.
They surrounded Sigurd, who was staring at the proceedings in agony.
"No! Please, no! This is not right! It's not..."
A bullet entered his stomach. Another tourist swung the blade and pierced it through Sigurd's chest.
The athletic man couldn't believe what he was seeing.
The tourists continued the massacre on Sigurd. The tourist with the blade chopped of Sigurds' right arm and both his legs, while another one emptied the gun on his head. Several other tourists kicked the body or threw rocks at it.
It seemed like ages, but it was only 10 minutes later when Sigurd's body was reduced to a bloody pulp.
After the events, the tourists looked at what they had done. Some of them where ashamed, others were too far away after 5 days and nights of atrocity...
"We can't burry... that..."
"Let's cover it with rocks."
30 minutes later, a pile of rocks marked the place where the massacre had taken place.
"Let's go to sleep."
***
Tally
Sigurd: 3 (GH, YLC, w&f) :skull:
seireikhaan: 3 (boudica, Sigurd, Glyphz)
Ibn Khadun: 2 (Shlin, Yoyoma)
Yoyoma : 1 (Ibn-Khaldun)
Abstain: 4 (seireikhaan, Chaotix, Lord Winter, CountArach)
Not voting: 5 (Tiberius, Beefy, Caius, El Diablo, Seamus)
Alive (17)
boudica
GeneralHankerchief
seireikhaan
shlin28
Tiberius of the Drake
187Beefyz
Chaotix27
YLC
woad&fangs
Yoyoma1910
Ibn-Khaldun
Lord Winter
CountArach
Caius
El Diablo
Glyphz
Seamus Fermanagh
Killed (6) :
777Ares777
TheFlax
White_Eyes :D
Reenk Roink
Askthepizzaguy
Quintus.JC
Lynched (5) :
TinCow
Tevashzat
FactionHeir
Jolt
Sigurd
WoG/Suicide (2):
Rythmic
Ignoramus
It's now night. PM's please. Night will last for +/- 24 hours * (23.30 GMT+1)
* Note: due to RL, it's possible I won't be online in time to finish the night phase. If that happens, night will be extended with roughly 10 hours. Sorry for the inconvenience.
At the current time, the evidence shows people being blocked on nights that there were fewer kills. I challenge anyone to tell me what evidence there is out there right now that is stronger than this.
Yet no failed attempts were narrated as promised. Either a) GH has not blocked a mafia at all or b) He blocked the mafia on the day the mafia chose to not kill.
But the mafia has not got rid of the blocker yet and they had the chance last night. Why? I suspect something fishy.
GeneralHankerchief
01-17-2009, 00:10
No, if I block mafia there will not be a writeup.
If I protect somebody who gets attacked by the mafia... then there will be a writeup.
No, if I block mafia there will not be a writeup.
If I protect somebody who gets attacked by the mafia... then there will be a writeup.
Ok... if this is true, then I must be the shadow killer as this was the only missing role on both nights.
There was a confirmed kill and a foiled kill where two power roles were involved. Yet none of you compared this to the blocking results... Fishy I tell you.
GeneralHankerchief
01-17-2009, 00:19
I need to go back and check the writeups. If this checks out and I did make a mistake, my apologies. And FWIW, I based my vote off of a combination of yours and TinCow's arguments.
Ibn-Khaldun
01-17-2009, 00:19
Now.. let's see..
Night 1:
Killed: 777Ares777
Could be totally random kill.
Day 1:
Lynched: TinCow : 7 (GH, shlin28, Reenk Roink, White_Eyes:D, Tevashzat, FactionHeir, Ignoramus)
Tevashzat : 6 (Quintus.JC, YLC, Sigurd, Yoyoma, TinCow, Seamus Fermanagh)
He got 'bandwagonned'?? I doubt it.
Night 2:
Killed: No kills
Mafia investigating/recruiting like someone proposed??
Day 2:
Lynched: Tevashzat : 8 (Reenk Roink, White_Eyes:D, YLC, Sigurd, Yoyoma1910, Ibn-Khaldun, TheFlax, glyphz)
The 'Runner-up' of previous lynch gets .. lynched. I have to admit that I voted only against him because I had no time to fully read all the posts and he seemed like his guilty. I think I was wrong.
Yoyoma voted for Teva last time and this time he gets lynched. Coincident?? I don't think so.
Night 3:
Killed: TheFlax, Reenk Roink, White_Eyes :D
Mafia probably had the chance to kill 3 certain townies and they used it.
Day3:
Lynched: FactionHeir : 2 (boudica, shlin28)
Jolt : 1 (Yoyoma1910)
You see who gets her vote and I wonder who was lynched the next day??
Night 4:
Killed: Askthepizzaguy
Vigilante kill as someone suggested. I think I agree. I also think this was a wrong move IF Vigilante killed him.
Day 4:
Lynched: Jolt : 2 (Chaotix27, Yoyoma1910)
No way, Jolt is lynched?? Coincident??
Night 5:
Killed: Quintus.JC
Quiet night with only one kill.
Day: 5
Lynched: Sigurd: 3 (GH, YLC, w&f)
Ibn Khadun: 2 (Shlin, Yoyoma)
Since I got her vote I guess I will die Day 6???
OR I get killed by mafia this night because I pissed off the wrong person??
Anyway, to me she seems to be the 'original' mafia who recruited some people to help lynch people who could reveal her. In the same time she is reducing townies in night too.
Those 'grave diggers' or what ever they are could have a secondary objective to justify their actions.
Yet no failed attempts were narrated as promised. Either a) GH has not blocked a mafia at all or b) He blocked the mafia on the day the mafia chose to not kill.
But the mafia has not got rid of the blocker yet and they had the chance last night. Why? I suspect something fishy.
This is entirely correct. The mafia could be leaving GH alive for various reasons, but he could also be deceiving us. It's a question of balance. The longer the game goes on without GH being killed, the greater the likelihood that he is deceiving us. The mafia could know this and be intentionally leaving him alive, but it's risky for them too, since he might block them. We will eventually reach a point where GH may have to be lynched simply because his mere survival would be evidence of scumminess. However, we're nowhere near that point yet. A smart mafioso could get by with GH alive for a very, very long time, but I'm willing to bet that they'll get squeemish and kill GH long before the town needs to seriously start looking at lynching him.
Reenk Roink
01-17-2009, 00:37
My previous statements don't, but I'll be happy to explain my line of thought. First, we know GH can role block because it has been confirmed by many people, too many for them all to be mafia. Second, role blocking is not an ability that is likely to be given to mafia. Third, the descriptions of the old man in the write-ups appear anything but scummy.
Thanks for explaining. I still think it's quite plausible for a Mafia group to have a roleblocker, but the third case is quite a good one I didn't think of. The old man really just wanted to tell me stories.
GH, since your role is quite well known now, might you at least quote some parts of your PM to us? I understand if you snip certain things out for security reasons. Just put my mind to ease. :beam:
GeneralHankerchief
01-17-2009, 00:39
My most recent feedback PM?
Reenk Roink
01-17-2009, 00:41
The Role PM please :bow:
GeneralHankerchief
01-17-2009, 00:42
Already posted it defending myself against ATPG. It should be the first one in the series. Let me check back and see if I can find it.
-edit- Here we are (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2105416&postcount=389). My role PM is the first quoted bit.
Reenk Roink
01-17-2009, 01:00
Already posted it defending myself against ATPG. It should be the first one in the series. Let me check back and see if I can find it.
-edit- Here we are (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2105416&postcount=389). My role PM is the first quoted bit.
Ah, thanks, I missed it. :bow: Except for one bit about an old man that doesn't appear to relate in the initial story or in your PM, things check out and while I can't quote PM's anymore, the secret hiding place mentioned in mine correlates strongly with your PM.
I too now have come around and have a strong feeling that GH is neutral at worst. :yes: I suggest the doctor protect him every night and hope that his choices ring true.
PS: Don't block the doctor! :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Gah, didn't get back in time to change my vote :sweatdrop:
Oh well, whats done is done.
To Ibn Khaldun: You are not explaination why you make such short posts + votes without any explainations. Your recent post is nothing but supersition :clown: I prefer concrete evidence or at least an adimittance that your suspicions of Yoyoma is just a hunch.
The Scourge of Ephesus - Night 6 - Conclusion
https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Org/Artemis.jpg
A Statue of Artemis - 0.30 am
A shady figure stood near a statue of Artemis.
The figure and the statue seemed to stare at each other, as in a contest of willpower.
The shady figure started to laugh softly. The laughter went louder and louder and more and more hysterical.
A scream could be heard all over the archeological site.
One well placed high kick was enough to destroy yet another of Artemis' statue.
The figure slowly walked away.
***
https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Org/Efese-Celsusbibliotheek.jpg
Ephesus, The Celsus Library 1.30 am
shlin28 was walking around Celsus Library.
He didn't particulary care about ancient history, but the scenery did make for some beautiful pictures.
shlin28 especially enjoyed the nights, which allowed him to make exclusive Ephesus-by-night pics.
Walking and taking pictures also gave him the opportunity to give his mind some rest. A distraction from the recent horrible events.
shlin28 kneeled to take yet another stunning shot of the Celsus library when a shady figure jumped forward.
"I know I will be famous after this, but that doesn't mean you have to go paparrazi on me!"
shlin28 looked surprised. "Who are you?"
"I prefer my identity to remain secret, good friend."
The man walked forward and pointed a silenced gun at shlin28.
Before he could get a good look on the man's face, a bullet between his eyes ended the life of shlin28.
The man lights a cigarette and slowly walks away.
***
https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Org/Efeze-latrines.jpg
The latrines - 2.00 am
woad&fangs was sitting in the latrines. He was sweating and panicking. He couldn't take this much longer.
He kept muttering to himself "They won't find me here. They won't find me here. I'm safe here. Oh boy, am I safe here. I'm safe, they won't find me..."
"BOOO!"
woad&fangs instantly started to cry.
"No, no, no! Please, don't hurt me! Please! Oh, mother..."
"Mother? I'm not your mother."
"Oh, mother!"
"What about your mother? Is she hot?"
"Mother! Please, help!"
The man shook his head and drew his gun.
woad&fangs stared at it in agony. "I'm too young! Too young! Please, no!"
Two bullets mercilessly ended his life.
The man in the shadows puts away his gun, lights a cigar and slowly walks away.
***
The Scourge of Ephesus - Day 6
https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Org/Efese-Odeion.jpg
The Odeion - 8.00 am
The old man was panicking.
"The statue. The statue. Destroyed!"
"But the statue already was destroyed!"
"This was... the real one. Oh no," the old man shakes his head. "And I also found two bodies, one near the Celsus library and one near the latrines. shlin28 and woad&fangs. Both with gaping wounds in their heads. Oh, I'm so afraid... And the statue..."
"Stop panicking, you old fool!"
One of the more aggressive tourists slapped the old man in the face.
"Let's continue our discussion. We have to lynch a killer today."
"Yeah," another tourist added.
***
Alive (15)
boudica
GeneralHankerchief
seireikhaan
Tiberius of the Drake
187Beefyz
Chaotix27
YLC
Yoyoma1910
Ibn-Khaldun
Lord Winter
CountArach
Caius
El Diablo
Glyphz
Seamus Fermanagh
Killed (8) :
777Ares777
TheFlax
White_Eyes :D
Reenk Roink
Askthepizzaguy
Quintus.JC
woad&fangs
shlin28
Lynched (5) :
TinCow
Tevashzat
FactionHeir
Jolt
Sigurd
WoG/Suicide (2):
Rythmic
Ignoramus
It's now day. You can start voting.
* Note: due to RL (family reunion), this will be an extended day. Day will last for +/- 36 hours, (until Monday 23.00 GMT +1)
CountArach
01-18-2009, 11:15
* Note: due to RL (family reunion), this will be an extended day. Day will last for +/- 36 hours, (until Monday 23.00 GMT +1)
Have fun. I too will be away for most of the next 24 hours - My family and I are going to visit some caves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenolan_Caves).
Sorry all, RL meant I couldn't really participate. Good luck.
GeneralHankerchief
01-18-2009, 18:01
Crap, I was going to block Woad too tonight. Instead I hit Beefy and YLC. Also, there's no athletic man. Not a good night for the town.
I'll vote later, just woke up.
I'm going to have to Vote: Ibn-Khaldun for now, because of his suspicious voting patterns that Yoyoma pointed out. Of course, Yoyoma is not particularly innocent-looking, either. I may change my vote later on if a better suspect turns up.
Ibn-Khaldun
01-18-2009, 18:59
My voting pattern is not suspicious, I just vote those who I suspect. What is suspicious is that who ever gets Yoyoma' vote one day is lynched the other day. So, no surprise that I'm the one who is voted tonight.
But if town wants to lynch a fellow townie and not mafia then .. go and vote for me!
Anyway, I Vote: Yoyoma
Hmmm. The two kills appear to be our grave-digging duo generating more corpses to dig up. What's up with the hysterical guy though? Wasn't that the now dead RR? Also, do we care about the statues being destroyed? Is this something to be concerned with, is it some kind of side-mission between special roles that won't impact the main town victory?
Lord Winter
01-18-2009, 20:42
My voting pattern is not suspicious, I just vote those who I suspect. What is suspicious is that who ever gets Yoyoma' vote one day is lynched the other day. So, no surprise that I'm the one who is voted tonight.
But if town wants to lynch a fellow townie and not mafia then .. go and vote for me!
Anyway, I Vote: Yoyoma
That's a scummy defense if I've ever heard one.
Vote: Ibn Khaldun
Ibn-Khaldun
01-18-2009, 22:30
Lord Winter, how exactly is it scummy??
Let's use logic here. Do you really think that Andres would make ME a mafia??
I have played one a long time ago and thus I'm still a total newbie in these games.
So, according to your logic, Andres would make me a mafioso just because I'm totally inexperienced guy who actually don't know much about mafia games??
GeneralHankerchief
01-18-2009, 22:34
The roles are assigned randomly, I believe.
Ibn-Khaldun
01-18-2009, 22:36
But you can't be sure. Right??
GeneralHankerchief
01-18-2009, 22:38
Assuming that he does assign the roles randomly, what is your new defense?
Quintus.JC
01-18-2009, 22:43
Ibn-Khaldun, you reasons are scummy and your defenses are even worse, I know where my votes are going if I were alive.
Quintus.JC
01-18-2009, 22:45
Lord Winter, how exactly is it scummy??
Let's use logic here. Do you really think that Andres would make ME a mafia??
I have played one a long time ago and thus I'm still a total newbie in these games.
So, according to your logic, Andres would make me a mafioso just because I'm totally inexperienced guy who actually don't know much about mafia games??
He certainly can, and this certainly doesn't make you any less guilty then if you were experienced.
Ibn-Khaldun
01-18-2009, 22:54
Gah! You all are saying that my votes are scummy but other than that I haven't seen any good proof that I could be mafioso!! :laugh4:
But, I'm not going to defend myself because I haven't done anything wrong!
But votes are how people find out you are mafia :book:
I should know, I've been lynched for it too many times.
GeneralHankerchief
01-18-2009, 22:59
I think we can leave IK alone for a while. I think if he were mafia he'd be trying harder to actually offer a defense (albeit a bad one).
Vote: El Diablo
Speak.
-edit- Actually, can we get a few votes shifted on a couple of different lurkers?
I'll cooperate with you for now, GH, although I'm not sure how much voting for someone who isn't here is going to force them to talk, you know?
Unvote: Ibn-Khaldun
Vote: Caius
Talk to us, participate a bit!
Let me join in the fun!
Vote: Tiberius of the Drake
You have the bare minimum to survive so far, that's it. Speak now
Beefy187
01-19-2009, 01:02
Leave the lurkers alone till they speak.
Just let them be wogged.
GeneralHankerchief
01-19-2009, 01:09
That's the problem, a lot of them aren't WoG-bait but still contributing nothing to the thread. We need to draw them out.
Beefy187
01-19-2009, 01:21
Theres too many of them to lynch one by one and we don't have that much time it seems.
Mafia strategy seems to be kill the mid- high range contributers. So mafia could be hiding in the high lurkerish area as that range are yet to be targeted.
Lets hope the pressure votes can get them to talk.
FoS: Chaotix
Much less posting frequency, yet fast to react to "operation lurker spotting" (shamelessly named by Beefy)
Vote: Seireikhaan
I know he is currently hosting a large game, but this mans quietness always freaks me out. Ill keep my vote on you for now
GeneralHankerchief
01-19-2009, 01:27
FoS: Chaotix
Much less posting frequency, yet fast to react to "operation lurker spotting" (shamelessly named by Beefy)
Hm, good call. Although IIRC this is baseline behavior for Chaotix.
Beefy187
01-19-2009, 01:35
Just went to check Full Monty and Teddy Snatcher
About high 20s on Full Monty and 30s on Teddy Snatcher.
His post (9 atm) seems to be lower. Although It is rather hard to post in this game
GeneralHankerchief
01-19-2009, 01:39
Did Full Monty and Teddy Snatcher have similar total postcounts to this one?
-edit- Hm, both have a bit more but Chaotix still isn't on pace. Let me check Spirit Mafia; he was mafia in that one.
-edit2- Okay, Chaotix had more posts per page in that one than any of the others we've mentioned. So unless he switched his style up dramatically, I think he's innocent at the moment.
-edit3- Daisy it, I really wish Kommodus had given me Holmes before he left the Gameroom. This would be soooo much easier. I should really learn programming.
Beefy187
01-19-2009, 01:50
Is Kommodus still around? I really miss him.. :shame:
Chaotix is just lurking then
Lord Winter
01-19-2009, 03:34
Lord Winter, how exactly is it scummy??
Let's use logic here. Do you really think that Andres would make ME a mafia??
I have played one a long time ago and thus I'm still a total newbie in these games.
So, according to your logic, Andres would make me a mafioso just because I'm totally inexperienced guy who actually don't know much about mafia games??
You deny it then try to suddenly shift it off on another player. I've seen mafia use such tactics before.
and GH I think his range could fall into a mafia response. He's also a good choice for the anti lurker drive.
seireikhaan
01-19-2009, 03:58
Vote: Ibn-Khaldun
Plenty of "newbies" have been made mafia in the past.
Rather quick to speak again, aren't you SK? You get voted and then poop out of nowhere to make an easy vote without really trying to think about it or explain it.
seireikhaan
01-19-2009, 04:35
Rather quick to speak again, aren't you SK? You get voted and then poop out of nowhere to make an easy vote without really trying to think about it or explain it.
This is a very poor attempt at goading an exaggerated response.
This is a very poor attempt at goading an exaggerated response.
This is a very poor attempt at trying to simply not answer the question.
seireikhaan
01-19-2009, 04:41
This is a very poor attempt at trying to simply not answer the question.
There's no point in answering because the questions are self-answered if one actually reads the post in conjunction with what Ibn-Khaldun was alledging.
There's no point in answering because the questions are self-answered if one actually reads the post in conjunction with what Ibn-Khaldun was alledging.
Yes, but your jumping when your suddenly voted for and find someone easy to vote for. Yet for most of everything you have been exceptionally silent. For such a insightful and well thought out man, SK, you have yet to do anything to help the town except nod and agree, and post how terrible your life is (still sucks when you have to go to work in -25 though :no:).
Your a veteran player, yet you have left the town hanging.
seireikhaan
01-19-2009, 04:51
Fine. Tell ya what. I'll reread the entire thread, and be back in about two hours.
Also, I also never stated my life sucks. On the contrary, I'm pretty content with my life at the moment. Frazzled at times, no doubt. But good on the whole.
Fine. Tell ya what. I'll reread the entire thread, and be back in about two hours.
Also, I also never stated my life sucks. On the contrary, I'm pretty content with my life at the moment. Frazzled at times, no doubt. But good on the whole.
Well, okay, I admit you never said that, but your DAY still sucked though...
Seamus Fermanagh
01-19-2009, 05:00
Vote: Boudica
12 Posts (3 prior to play); rate is 0.80 posts per page of 40 (0.65 ppp during play); most posts moderate to short. Posts had a strong role-play tone at outset, less so as game continues. Made a few anti-lurker references, but has semi-lurked herself. Once posted that she’d be back to vote and/or defend herself, but only came back to say RIP to jolt.
Voted for Factionheir on TinCow’s suggestion to wake up a vet. Voted for Sereikhaan in what seems a very Meatball-style vote in this latest round.
GH blocked her....and if I recall there were few kills that night.
Someone persuade me that I am on the wrong track....
seireikhaan
01-19-2009, 06:23
Unvote: Ibn-Khaldun
Vote: GeneralHankerchief
The case:
First of all, we must consider the General's behavior in the backdrop that he was going to "rock us like a :daisy: hurricane."
Round one-- GH votes for TinCow as a "precautionary tactic" right off the bat. Talks a bit with Reenk over Reenk's styles of play. This seems to hint that, perhaps, GH was hoping to dredge a lynch against him later. The round goes on for a bit with the usual "round one-ish" sort of junk. GH, at 12:55 claims "Please, for the love of all that is good in this world, put this round out of its misery." FIVE HOURS later, responding to TinCow's aggravation at being railroaded for no reason, he stated, "Oh come on, you yourself have said that the first round is nothing but randomness and chaos. I was thinking about taking my vote off of you but not after this statement." This is false. He claimed five hours earlier that he dearly wished for the round to be finished. What this does is attempt to give legitimacy to his supposedly "random and pre-cautionary" vote despite the fact that he seemed to have harbored "greater suspicion" towards Reenk during their talks. End result: TinCow, a very, very good player, is lynched and given the infinite agnosticism towards his innocence which comes from lynch.
Round two-- Very curious, GH doesn't vote. Rather lacking coming from our resident hurricane. Further complicating things is that there is a boatload of other non-voters to blend in with. I realize that the Golden Rule had not finished yet; however, this is not good enough as a reason. I expect a vote every round, at least an abstain, if we are to pronounce you "Ser Hurricane". ~;p
Round Three-- GH abstains. Rather unfortunate in terms of attempting to analyze. However, it is here that he "reveals" his role under enormous pressure. Now, I do not doubt that the General has a role blocking role. Indeed, there are far too many vouching for having been blocked. However, I doubt the allignment. I'll get into this further later on in the post.
Round Four-- GH claims "Screw it, let's make it six.
Vote: Quintus.JC". "Screw it?" Really? Is that the best you can do? You would claim suspicion of Sigurd, but didn't vote on it. Instead, you voted to "give an extra tie". For what, exactly? As you claimed later, just before the lynch: "Frankly I don't think any of the favorites for this round look guilty.
Boudica seems innocent to me, I don't trust Sigurd (who voted for CA) as far as I can throw him, Quintus is helping out, and Beefy would be playing a better game if he was mafia (see Golden Rule) and Jolt doesn't stand out enough in my mind to be lynched." You didn't vote on the person you thought suspicious, and instead waited a round. Why? Well, there was little momentum against Sigurd at the time of this lynch. I believe GH waited to get proper momentum going. But even more preposterous, you VOTED for a person you claimed was "helping". What's this all about?
Round Five-- Sigurd is lynched in a tie with myself. Now, apparently some people believe I'm actually good at mafia. So, if one is a mafioso, and there is a tie between an innocent Sigurd and an innocent Khaan, its a party, I guess? :inquisitive: GH successfully got a lynch against Sigurd. The reason? Apparently, because Sigurd had expressed doubt about the role claim. You even admitted here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2108513#post2108513) that the case against Sigurd wasn't much. Yet you stood hard and fast, and helped lynch one of the best townspeople in the game on thin reasoning. To me, this stinks of you helping thin out the veteran mafia crew by way of lynch. I know you wouldn't kill most of these people and exhonerate them. So you resort to helping get them lynched, which leaves doubt as to their allignment, nullifying potential town support from any argument which comes from them. Reenk, of course, was a whole other deal entirely because of how badly he was confusing everyone.
Now, as for the role- you claimed you never receieved alignment in the role PM. This is one of three things. 1) Oversight by the INFALLIBLE Andres. 2) WIFOM. 3) You were intended to be ambiguous, and made a slip by admitting it. I personally believe it is 2)
Now, here's the thing... you claimed there would be narration if there was a successful block. In six nights, there has not been one successful block despite having the ability to block two people each night. And when Woad perished, you claimed you were "going to block him", but that you instead did Beefy and YLC and that this was "a bad night for the town". COP OUT.
But here's the part I really can't get my head around. You blocked Reenk night two. Reenk was not being lynched, in ultimatum. You clearly believed Reenk to be innocent, due to never voting for him. Reenk was claiming a very important role. WHY DID YOU STOP PROTECTING/BLOCKING REENK ROINK? This makes absolutely no sense. Further, that there were no kills on night two suggests that there was, in fact, a block taking place. Look at the number of kills that have been taking place recently. Can one really believe that there was NO blocks on night two? Think about it... Reenk has repeatedly claimed he was "doing way" or wanted to "do away" with various people, obviously claiming he had kill power. TI believe the General blocked Reenk on behalf of his nervous mafia comrades, to attempt to a) stop an attempt on his life, thus exhonerating him, and b) stop Reenk himself. When it became clear the town wasn't taking the bait fast enough, the protection/block stopped, and Reenk was killed by the mafia to eliminate his threat. And here's the curious thing... only after Reenk's blocking do the kills pickup. To me, this is what this means: Reenk started the game with some kind of vigenlante ability. The mafia/other, for whatever reason Andres devised up, had to wait. For what? Who knows. :shrug:
I URGE EVERYONE TO VOTE GH. HE IS PLAYING YOU.
CountArach
01-19-2009, 06:34
IK seems like a wasted lynch to me. He seems to be making common noobish mistakes, and as such just serves to detract from a real hunt for the mafia. We have no way to read him yet, seeing as he is new.
I'm not sure I buy khaan's reasoning to vote GH. I just can't see a role-blocker being useful to the mafia at all and I am fairly sure Andres would see things a similar way. Perhaps if there were several mafia families this would be a decent role, but in a game with one family I am not so sure.
Beefy187
01-19-2009, 06:42
With 15 players still alive, I think its rather foolish to lynch a player who claims a pro town role. He could be a useful asset. We should wait until we get down to around 10 players. Needless to say, hes active and been providing more ideas then many of us.
Especially because I was indeed in contact with GH (or who ever the role blocker is) last night. Why would a scum block a player when he could be killing countless innocents?
Reenk Roink
01-19-2009, 06:43
Aside from being too quick to the draw and getting some "facts" wrong, khaan is right that GeneralHankerchief is probably trying to play the town.
I was going to play along and wait for the right moment to make a strike against him but it seems it the shot has already been fired. Either way, you still have quite a bit of time town, so just keep GH on radar and get the rest of the scum. :bow:
Edit: I hope it's also painfully clear that seireikhaan is probably playing the town too...
GeneralHankerchief
01-19-2009, 07:25
I'm tired and depressed right now (see the NFL thread). I see khaan has made a long post against me. I'll address it tomorrow.
GeneralHankerchief
01-19-2009, 07:45
Okay, I lied. Consider this post a basic overall defense. Tomorrow I'll get into specifics.
- First off, THINK OF MY ROLE BACKGROUND, PEOPLE. I'm the old man, the guide, the dude who knows Ephesus better than anybody else. If you think this is in doubt, then go back over ATPG's murder description. Everybody's going after each other for revenge or something in this game, and my town is caught in the crossfire. Every night I hide two people in a secret cave to try to save their lives (and block them) and tell them boring stories. If this sounds anything other than pro-town to you, please let me know.
- Secondly, I never voted for Reenk out of a desire of self-preservation. I had no way to know if Reenk was telling the truth about his "godlike powers" or not, so decided to err on the side of self-preservation and never officially get on his bad side. Considering my role I believe this was appropriate. Yes, I persuaded you to lynch him without ever actually doing any heavy lifting myself. Sorry for the manipulation, but it achieved what I wanted to achieve.
- Thirdly, my case against Sigurd had nothing to do with his skepticism of my reveal. It had to do with general thread behavior and more specifically his convenient lapse of memory as far as my role in Spirit Mafia was concerned.
G'night all.
Vote: Boudica
12 Posts (3 prior to play); rate is 0.80 posts per page of 40 (0.65 ppp during play); most posts moderate to short. Posts had a strong role-play tone at outset, less so as game continues. Made a few anti-lurker references, but has semi-lurked herself. Once posted that she’d be back to vote and/or defend herself, but only came back to say RIP to jolt.
Voted for Factionheir on TinCow’s suggestion to wake up a vet. Voted for Sereikhaan in what seems a very Meatball-style vote in this latest round.
GH blocked her....and if I recall there were few kills that night.
Someone persuade me that I am on the wrong track....
boudica was blocked, by GH, nights 4 (w/ Atpg) and 5 (w/ Sigurd).
N4 - There were 2 diggers (who we believe are the mafia), and 1 death (Atpg-shadow guy)
N5 - 1 death (Quintus- gun = mafia) and 1 failed attempt (also used a gun = mafia)
According to this, the likelihood of boudica being mafia/shadow guy is very small or even 0, I think.
Lengthy post SK, my vote stays with you. I find it hard to take it seriously in the sense of me switching my vote - yes, you posted a lot, but really, a sudden focus on GH? Understandably, he is the roleblocker, he is still alive, and it appears you HAVE a case against him, but it actually took me prompting you to even bother - otherwise you would have merrily lurked away.
boudica was blocked, by GH, nights 4 (w/ Atpg) and 5 (w/ Sigurd).
N4 - There were 2 diggers (who we believe are the mafia), and 1 death (Atpg-shadow guy)
N5 - 1 death (Quintus- gun = mafia) and 1 failed attempt (also used a gun = mafia)
According to this, the likelihood of boudica being mafia/shadow guy is very small or even 0, I think.
To answer Seamus - I completely understand that the facts you have listed might point to me, but can only cite RL busy-ness (as well as trying to keep track of 3 threads in this game room) as an excuse for poor contribution to this game.
While you may feel that establishing my allegiance by lynching me is helpful to town right now, I reiterate that in the long run it will only help the mafia numbers-wise.
I agree that my vote for Sereikhaan was far more unconsidered than I any vote should be - at that point I was short on time and compelled to vote for whatever jumped out of the thread at me.
(What in-game time is it right now:inquisitive:)Anyway - Apologies for not being more helpful, but at this stage I do not have any idea about who the two mafia family members might be. I'll try to go through the thread again today and come up with a vote that is based on evidence and not comments about the weather.
Honestly, GH has said himself (Or maybe it was TinCow? I forget.) in this thread that the best thing to do in a case like this is lynch both sides of the argument to make sure you catch the mafia.
Of course, we have to consider the fact that unless some lurker has decided not to shoot GH down from his high horse, then it is very probable he is the blocker and the "kind old man". Seireikhaan, however, we know nothing about, and have very little evidence before his giant, unexpected wall of text for or against his innocence. The post itself, as Reenk has noted, is obviously trying to manipulate the town to vote in a certain direction. Whether khaan honestly suspects GH or has instead just decided it's the right time to use him as lynch bait is the million dollar question here. And as khaan generally seems to take the more covert side on mafia games, I will assume he probably has some sort of ulterior motive to getting GH lynched.
Unvote: Caius
Vote: seireikhaan
You have made a decent case against GH, seireikhaan. But if you won't defend yourself, there is little reason for us to believe you.
Hmm...
This is an interesting situation. I would very much recommend that both sereikhaan and GH are left alive this round. This situation needs more discussion and should not be subjected to knee-jerk reactions to whoever posted last.
seireikhaan
01-19-2009, 17:13
Defend myself? Okay, how about you guys actually look back to the last round? I could have easily cast the fourth vote on Sigurd and saved my skin. I didn't, and left my fate up to a coin flip. Why? Because I'm expendable.
Lord Winter
01-19-2009, 18:16
IK seems like a wasted lynch to me. He seems to be making common noobish mistakes, and as such just serves to detract from a real hunt for the mafia. We have no way to read him yet, seeing as he is new.
I'm not sure I buy khaan's reasoning to vote GH. I just can't see a role-blocker being useful to the mafia at all and I am fairly sure Andres would see things a similar way. Perhaps if there were several mafia families this would be a decent role, but in a game with one family I am not so sure.
No wait I thought there were two families in this game?
As for IK noobish mistakes don't give innocence.
But here's the part I really can't get my head around. You blocked Reenk night two. Reenk was not being lynched, in ultimatum. You clearly believed Reenk to be innocent, due to never voting for him. Reenk was claiming a very important role. WHY DID YOU STOP PROTECTING/BLOCKING REENK ROINK? This makes absolutely no sense. Further, that there were no kills on night two suggests that there was, in fact, a block taking place. Look at the number of kills that have been taking place recently. Can one really believe that there was NO blocks on night two? Think about it... Reenk has repeatedly claimed he was "doing way" or wanted to "do away" with various people, obviously claiming he had kill power. TI believe the General blocked Reenk on behalf of his nervous mafia comrades, to attempt to a) stop an attempt on his life, thus exhonerating him, and b) stop Reenk himself. When it became clear the town wasn't taking the bait fast enough, the protection/block stopped, and Reenk was killed by the mafia to eliminate his threat. And here's the curious thing... only after Reenk's blocking do the kills pickup. To me, this is what this means: Reenk started the game with some kind of vigenlante ability. The mafia/other, for whatever reason Andres devised up, had to wait. For what? Who knows.
The alignment of Reenk was always in question during that time, he could have feared that he was some sort of SK and thus hoped that the mafia would do the town works for him. Yet at the same time, the more I try to justify it the more shady it seems, if he was driving the lynch why not block and receive conformation of what he already knew?
Just thinking aloud I'm going to have to go with 'Kahn
Unvote: Ibn-Khaldun
Vote: GeneralHankerchief
Lynching Khan makes no sense. Do we want to discourage people making in depth post?
NO, we don't, but Khaan only bothered to do so when I pushed the issue - it's as if he's not helping the town willingly. He is a veteran mafia player, and yet he willingly lurks when he knows his analysis could have been more helpful in earlier rounds? Something smells...
GeneralHankerchief
01-19-2009, 18:55
Okay, here we go. For reference, here's my original basic defense from last night:
Okay, I lied. Consider this post a basic overall defense. Tomorrow I'll get into specifics.
- First off, THINK OF MY ROLE BACKGROUND, PEOPLE. I'm the old man, the guide, the dude who knows Ephesus better than anybody else. If you think this is in doubt, then go back over ATPG's murder description. Everybody's going after each other for revenge or something in this game, and my town is caught in the crossfire. Every night I hide two people in a secret cave to try to save their lives (and block them) and tell them boring stories. If this sounds anything other than pro-town to you, please let me know.
- Secondly, I never voted for Reenk out of a desire of self-preservation. I had no way to know if Reenk was telling the truth about his "godlike powers" or not, so decided to err on the side of self-preservation and never officially get on his bad side. Considering my role I believe this was appropriate. Yes, I persuaded you to lynch him without ever actually doing any heavy lifting myself. Sorry for the manipulation, but it achieved what I wanted to achieve.
- Thirdly, my case against Sigurd had nothing to do with his skepticism of my reveal. It had to do with general thread behavior and more specifically his convenient lapse of memory as far as my role in Spirit Mafia was concerned.
G'night all.
Now then, for the specifics.
Round one-- GH votes for TinCow as a "precautionary tactic" right off the bat. Talks a bit with Reenk over Reenk's styles of play. This seems to hint that, perhaps, GH was hoping to dredge a lynch against him later. The round goes on for a bit with the usual "round one-ish" sort of junk. GH, at 12:55 claims "Please, for the love of all that is good in this world, put this round out of its misery." FIVE HOURS later, responding to TinCow's aggravation at being railroaded for no reason, he stated, "Oh come on, you yourself have said that the first round is nothing but randomness and chaos. I was thinking about taking my vote off of you but not after this statement." This is false. He claimed five hours earlier that he dearly wished for the round to be finished. What this does is attempt to give legitimacy to his supposedly "random and pre-cautionary" vote despite the fact that he seemed to have harbored "greater suspicion" towards Reenk during their talks. End result: TinCow, a very, very good player, is lynched and given the infinite agnosticism towards his innocence which comes from lynch.
It's a first-round lynch. I'm not sure of your case against me in this round, but my reasons for not voting Reenk have already been explained above. I was considering shifting my vote to a third party (not TC or Reenk) for a while, since I never intended TC to get lynched, but after his "aggravation" post I decided to leave it on him.
Round two-- Very curious, GH doesn't vote. Rather lacking coming from our resident hurricane. Further complicating things is that there is a boatload of other non-voters to blend in with. I realize that the Golden Rule had not finished yet; however, this is not good enough as a reason. I expect a vote every round, at least an abstain, if we are to pronounce you "Ser Hurricane".
For the record, I lost track of things in that round. I do recall posting, I believe, and thought I had lodged my vote in that post.
Round Four-- GH claims "Screw it, let's make it six.
Vote: Quintus.JC". "Screw it?" Really? Is that the best you can do? You would claim suspicion of Sigurd, but didn't vote on it. Instead, you voted to "give an extra tie". For what, exactly? As you claimed later, just before the lynch: "Frankly I don't think any of the favorites for this round look guilty.
Boudica seems innocent to me, I don't trust Sigurd (who voted for CA) as far as I can throw him, Quintus is helping out, and Beefy would be playing a better game if he was mafia (see Golden Rule) and Jolt doesn't stand out enough in my mind to be lynched." You didn't vote on the person you thought suspicious, and instead waited a round. Why? Well, there was little momentum against Sigurd at the time of this lynch. I believe GH waited to get proper momentum going. But even more preposterous, you VOTED for a person you claimed was "helping". What's this all about?
Sigurd wasn't getting lynched that round. At that point, I didn't have my case against him, just a suspicion. If my vote left Quintus then he wouldn't have as much incentive to get on, post, and defend himself (for the benefit of everyone else).
Round Five-- Sigurd is lynched in a tie with myself. Now, apparently some people believe I'm actually good at mafia. So, if one is a mafioso, and there is a tie between an innocent Sigurd and an innocent Khaan, its a party, I guess? :inquisitive: GH successfully got a lynch against Sigurd. The reason? Apparently, because Sigurd had expressed doubt about the role claim. You even admitted here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2108513#post2108513) that the case against Sigurd wasn't much. Yet you stood hard and fast, and helped lynch one of the best townspeople in the game on thin reasoning. To me, this stinks of you helping thin out the veteran mafia crew by way of lynch. I know you wouldn't kill most of these people and exhonerate them. So you resort to helping get them lynched, which leaves doubt as to their allignment, nullifying potential town support from any argument which comes from them. Reenk, of course, was a whole other deal entirely because of how badly he was confusing everyone.
Note my reasons for voting Sigurd above.
Now, here's the thing... you claimed there would be narration if there was a successful block. In six nights, there has not been one successful block despite having the ability to block two people each night. And when Woad perished, you claimed you were "going to block him", but that you instead did Beefy and YLC and that this was "a bad night for the town". COP OUT.
Protection, not block, how many times do I have to make this clear? If I hide Person Z in the tunnel and Person A sends in orders to kill Person Z that night, there will be narration. If I hide Person A in the tunnel, thus preventing him from doing anything else, there will be no narration.
Secondly, there was a narration of a protection in the thread - it just wasn't successful for whatever reason. Again, I refer you to ATPG's murder description.
Thirdly, the "COP OUT" bit. Let me guide you through my thought process yesterday. I roll out of bed, groggy and tired. I skim through the thread and see that woad has been killed. I barely got any sleep that night because my roommate snores like a buzz saw. When you're in that state of mind, there isn't much filter between brain and mouth (fingers?). I'm noting regret out loud that Woadsy died when I considered protecting him the prior night. Give me a break.
But here's the part I really can't get my head around. You blocked Reenk night two. Reenk was not being lynched, in ultimatum. You clearly believed Reenk to be innocent, due to never voting for him. Reenk was claiming a very important role. WHY DID YOU STOP PROTECTING/BLOCKING REENK ROINK? This makes absolutely no sense. Further, that there were no kills on night two suggests that there was, in fact, a block taking place. Look at the number of kills that have been taking place recently. Can one really believe that there was NO blocks on night two? Think about it... Reenk has repeatedly claimed he was "doing way" or wanted to "do away" with various people, obviously claiming he had kill power. TI believe the General blocked Reenk on behalf of his nervous mafia comrades, to attempt to a) stop an attempt on his life, thus exhonerating him, and b) stop Reenk himself. When it became clear the town wasn't taking the bait fast enough, the protection/block stopped, and Reenk was killed by the mafia to eliminate his threat. And here's the curious thing... only after Reenk's blocking do the kills pickup. To me, this is what this means: Reenk started the game with some kind of vigenlante ability. The mafia/other, for whatever reason Andres devised up, had to wait. For what? Who knows. :shrug:
See reasons for not voting Reenk above.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
All right, look. khaan, I don't think you're a mafioso, just horribly misguided. I don't want either of us to get lynched this round. BUT. If it comes down to that, I will shift my vote to you because I am more valuable to the town's cause.
Lastly, I ask the town: What are your reasons for doubting me? Do you truly doubt my role, question its alignment, and think it's safe to lynch a role blocker (a doctor and role blocker for God's sake!) just out of precaution, or do you do this just because it's me? Just because I am the role blocker, as opposed to someone like glyphz, or Tevash? Think on that, folks. I am pro-town through and through.
Lord Winter
01-19-2009, 19:04
Your role description has no effect on innocence or guilt. It's also weird that you haven't died yet. I still find your defense vague and scummy but for now, we'll let you live and see what happens latter in the game. For now I don't want to take a chance lynching a power town role. We'll see about latter.
Unvote: GH
Vote: Ibn-Khaldun
Back to scum number 1, I still don't buy your defense and your a perfect example of someone just doing the minimum to avoid the WoG.
El Diablo
01-19-2009, 20:02
Sorry have been away on a long weekend trip and I do not have the RL time right now to get through the build up of posts.
Vote Abstain
Will tray and get back to this tomorrow.
Appologies to our host :sweatdrop:
Yoyoma1910
01-19-2009, 20:03
There have been some very good arguments this round.
There's also some interesting information in the writeups. I'm going to go back and see if I can figure out more abut these statues that may help us. I also find it interesting that after the kill one assailant lit a cigar, and then the other lit a cigarette. Any thoughts on the smokes? has it appeared in other parts of writeups?
I will end this round within +/- 30 minutes.
seireikhaan
01-19-2009, 21:32
It's a first-round lynch. I'm not sure of your case against me in this round, but my reasons for not voting Reenk have already been explained above. I was considering shifting my vote to a third party (not TC or Reenk) for a while, since I never intended TC to get lynched, but after his "aggravation" post I decided to leave it on him.
My case against you is twofold here, and you are missing the boat on what I was arguing. My point is this: you lodged an early, supposedly random vote. You proceed to argue with other players. You then moan and whine and hiss about wanting the round to end. TC rightfully complains about getting railroaded for no reason, and then you blast him for it and claim, after you proclaimed to want the round to end, that you were considering to unvote TC. At some point, you are lying here. Further, the lynching of TinCow means he cannot be exonerated through a night killing. Hence, for a mafioso, the successful lynch of such a good player right at the beginning of the game is a stroke of genius. Tell me, should we ever let you or Seamus or Sigurd or Andres be the victim of a "random" lynch on day one, with little to go on? Of course not, if they are townspeople they are quite helpful. TC is in this same boat. Day one is NOT the time to lynch such skilled players. And I believe you know this just as well as anyone else here. Further, if you hadn't intended to get TC lynched, why did you vote him in the first place?
For the record, I lost track of things in that round. I do recall posting, I believe, and thought I had lodged my vote in that post.
Fair enough, we all make mistakes. Hurricanes, however, do not. ~;p
Sigurd wasn't getting lynched that round. At that point, I didn't have my case against him, just a suspicion. If my vote left Quintus then he wouldn't have as much incentive to get on, post, and defend himself (for the benefit of everyone else).
You'll have to explain this further to me. Exactly why do you not go after the one who you deem suspicious, and instead vote a player you claimed was "helping". I am failing to see the logic here.
Note my reasons for voting Sigurd above.
There's a problem, however. Sigurd ACKNOWLEDGED his mistake and declared that he stood corrected here ("https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2108954#post2108954). Yet you still did not recognize this fact. Again, I believe you are intentionally doing your best to take down innocent vets, so as to cast doubt upon any potential suspicion they might lodge towards you.
Protection, not block, how many times do I have to make this clear? If I hide Person Z in the tunnel and Person A sends in orders to kill Person Z that night, there will be narration. If I hide Person A in the tunnel, thus preventing him from doing anything else, there will be no narration.
Again, you're missing the boat on my argument. The point was, there should have at some point been a writeup of a successful block becaus there's been so many kills.
Secondly, there was a narration of a protection in the thread - it just wasn't successful for whatever reason. Again, I refer you to ATPG's murder description.Indeed there was an old man. However, you'll have to excuse me as I suspend disbelief that you have no idea why it wasn't "successful".
Thirdly, the "COP OUT" bit. Let me guide you through my thought process yesterday. I roll out of bed, groggy and tired. I skim through the thread and see that woad has been killed. I barely got any sleep that night because my roommate snores like a buzz saw. When you're in that state of mind, there isn't much filter between brain and mouth (fingers?). I'm noting regret out loud that Woadsy died when I considered protecting him the prior night. Give me a break.
You woke up at noon? :inquisitive:
See reasons for not voting Reenk above.
You mean the part about how you wanted Reenk lynched without having to actually vote him yourself? :inquisitive:
~~~~~~~~~~~~
All right, look. khaan, I don't think you're a mafioso, just horribly misguided. I don't want either of us to get lynched this round. BUT. If it comes down to that, I will shift my vote to you because I am more valuable to the town's cause.
Well, undoubtedly, if you are indeed town, you are more valuable than me. I don't think you are town, however.
Lastly, I ask the town: What are your reasons for doubting me? Do you truly doubt my role, question its alignment, and think it's safe to lynch a role blocker (a doctor and role blocker for God's sake!) just out of precaution, or do you do this just because it's me? Just because I am the role blocker, as opposed to someone like glyphz, or Tevash? Think on that, folks. I am pro-town through and through.
Your behavior and voting patterns tell me otherwise.
NO, we don't, but Khaan only bothered to do so when I pushed the issue - it's as if he's not helping the town willingly. He is a veteran mafia player, and yet he willingly lurks when he knows his analysis could have been more helpful in earlier rounds? Something smells...
I repeat. If I am scum, WHY DID I NOT SAVE MY HIDE, INSTEAD LEAVING MY FATE UP TO A COIN FLIP? WHY DID I NOT VOTE SIGURD? Because I'm an expendable townsperson.
Hmph, there is more then one member per mafia, SK, and one person can always be expendable, even among mafioso. First of all, if your partner is still alive, leaving it up for a 50/50 chance is not so bad an idea, especially considering that if you were to vote Sigurd and save yourself, you would not have been able to pounce on GH like you have this round, the hypocrisy of dong so would kill your own arguments.
But since your such a selfless townie, then you wouldn't mind getting killed and continuing to contribute in the follwoing rounds as TC has done, no?
seireikhaan
01-19-2009, 21:37
Hmph, there is more then one member per mafia, SK, and one person can always be expendable, even among mafioso. First of all, if your partner is still alive, leaving it up for a 50/50 chance is not so bad an idea, especially considering that if you were to vote Sigurd and save yourself, you would not have been able to pounce on GH like you have this round, the hypocrisy of dong so would kill your own arguments.
But since your such a selfless townie, then you wouldn't mind getting killed and continuing to contribute in the follwoing rounds as TC has done, no?
Except for the bit about how you can't know for sure if a lynched person is innocent. :whip:
GeneralHankerchief
01-19-2009, 21:49
My case against you is twofold here, and you are missing the boat on what I was arguing. My point is this: you lodged an early, supposedly random vote. You proceed to argue with other players. You then moan and whine and hiss about wanting the round to end. TC rightfully complains about getting railroaded for no reason, and then you blast him for it and claim, after you proclaimed to want the round to end, that you were considering to unvote TC. At some point, you are lying here. Further, the lynching of TinCow means he cannot be exonerated through a night killing. Hence, for a mafioso, the successful lynch of such a good player right at the beginning of the game is a stroke of genius. Tell me, should we ever let you or Seamus or Sigurd or Andres be the victim of a "random" lynch on day one, with little to go on? Of course not, if they are townspeople they are quite helpful. TC is in this same boat. Day one is NOT the time to lynch such skilled players. And I believe you know this just as well as anyone else here. Further, if you hadn't intended to get TC lynched, why did you vote him in the first place?
Okay, say for example you vote for somebody in the first round (this is purely hypothetical, of course, since you didn't vote in the first round). Do you intend for him to be lynched? No, you intend to get the round over with and then move on.
You'll have to explain this further to me. Exactly why do you not go after the one who you deem suspicious, and instead vote a player you claimed was "helping". I am failing to see the logic here.
Because Sigurd wasn't going to get lynched that round, and at that point I had nothing more than a gut feeling against him. I figured my vote would be more useful pressuring people to defend themselves.
There's a problem, however. Sigurd ACKNOWLEDGED his mistake and declared that he stood corrected here ("https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2108954#post2108954). Yet you still did not recognize this fact. Again, I believe you are intentionally doing your best to take down innocent vets, so as to cast doubt upon any potential suspicion they might lodge towards you.
I didn't buy it.
Again, you're missing the boat on my argument. The point was, there should have at some point been a writeup of a successful block becaus there's been so many kills.
I believe what I've been more successful at has been preventing people from going out and killing in the first place rather than actually preventing a kill itself.
Indeed there was an old man. However, you'll have to excuse me as I suspend disbelief that you have no idea why it wasn't "successful".
Oh for crying out loud, how many times do I need to refer you to the writeups? Whenever the old man's been mentioned he's been frazzled and scared. You're going to be served a big helping of crow at the end of this game, my friend.
You woke up at noon? :inquisitive:
It was the weekend, and I'm at school. Of course I woke up late.
You mean the part about how you wanted Reenk lynched without having to actually vote him yourself? :inquisitive:
Do you actually have a case for why that's scummy or are you just going to bring it up offhand like that? If you were in my position you would have done the exact same thing.
seireikhaan
01-19-2009, 22:01
Okay, say for example you vote for somebody in the first round (this is purely hypothetical, of course, since you didn't vote in the first round). Do you intend for him to be lynched? No, you intend to get the round over with and then move on.
Again, you ignore my point that TC is NOT the kind of player we want getting railroaded by a first round vote. I do NOT think this was a random vote. You even nominated TinCow in the HOF, stating you "feared" him more than anyone else. And sorry for not voting. I deemed it unimportant at the time due to Golden Rule/Chicago/Rl competing with the first round of a mafia game where an innocent is *almost* always lynched.
Because Sigurd wasn't going to get lynched that round, and at that point I had nothing more than a gut feeling against him. I figured my vote would be more useful pressuring people to defend themselves.
Again, what is the point in pressuring a person you deem to be "helpful" to defend themselves?
I didn't buy it.
You didn't buy Sigurd admitting he was wrong? :inquisitive:
I believe what I've been more successful at has been preventing people from going out and killing in the first place rather than actually preventing a kill itself.
And how can you know that for sure?
Oh for crying out loud, how many times do I need to refer you to the writeups? Whenever the old man's been mentioned he's been frazzled and scared.
You're going to be served a big helping of crow at the end of this game, my friend.
It's entirely possible that I'm horribly wrong. Obviously, I do not believe so. I'm judging off of behavior. And your behavior stinks.
It was the weekend, and I'm at school. Of course I woke up late.
It was the weekend, and I'm at school. I still get up at 10:30 at the latest. :whip:
Do you actually have a case for why that's scummy or are you just going to bring it up offhand like that? If you were in my position you would have done the exact same thing.
It's scummy because you're trying to set up the lynch of yet another veteran player while trying to not look like you were angling hard for it.
GeneralHankerchief
01-19-2009, 22:10
Again, you ignore my point that TC is NOT the kind of player we want getting railroaded by a first round vote. I do NOT think this was a random vote. You even nominated TinCow in the HOF, stating you "feared" him more than anyone else. And sorry for not voting. I deemed it unimportant at the time due to Golden Rule/Chicago/Rl competing with the first round of a mafia game where an innocent is *almost* always lynched.
I voted TC very early on in the round, not expecting him to get railroaded. I was contemplating changing my vote for a while (when I saw the votes on him pile up), but didn't like the way he reacted to the railroading. Thus, my vote stayed.
Again, what is the point in pressuring a person you deem to be "helpful" to defend themselves?
For the benefit of the rest of the town.
You didn't buy Sigurd admitting he was wrong?
It's very easy as a mafioso to attack someone based on false reasoning, get called out on it, and then back off, saying "whoops!". It even makes them look innocent. I've used that trick in the past. So no, I didn't buy it.
And how can you know that for sure?
Note the "I believe" part of my post.
It's scummy because you're trying to set up the lynch of yet another veteran player while trying to not look like you were angling hard for it.
Reenk needed to be taken out for everyone's benefit. You yourself admit this. I feard some sort of beyond-the-grave retribution. Had I been a townie, I would have voted for him. But I'm not, so I didn't.
seireikhaan
01-19-2009, 22:12
Reenk needed to be taken out for everyone's benefit. You yourself admit this. I feard some sort of beyond-the-grave retribution. Had I been a townie, I would have voted for him. But I'm not, so I didn't.
Freudian slip? :inquisitive:
GeneralHankerchief
01-19-2009, 22:14
Yeah, I thought you'd pick that up. Notice I said "not a townie" and not "not pro-town".
Voting concluded.
Stand by for execution.
SK, that was kinda weak, picking on terminology like that. I call vanilla, powerless roles "townies" and those who are pro-town with some power "power roles" myself.
seireikhaan
01-19-2009, 22:15
SK, that was kinda weak, picking on terminology like that. I call vanilla, powerless roles "townies" and those who are pro-town with some power "power roles" myself.
WHAT IS YOUR DEAL AGAINST ME?
The Scourge of Ephesus - Day 6 - Conclusion
https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Org/Efese-Odeion.jpg
The Odeion - 9.00 pm
The tourists continued their discussions.
Accusations were thrown around, seemingly at random. During the hottest part of the day, discussion grew calmer, only to go crescendo when the day was nearing its' end.
At sunset, the tourists had decided that seireikhaan had been among them for far too long.
"He doesn't talk enough! He must be guilty!"
"Yeah," the other tourists yelled.
seireikhaan stepped forward.
"Ladies and gentlemen... Please, allow me to defend myself."
"Shut up!"
"But, I was assumed guilty because I didn't talk enough and now that I'm starting to talk..."
"BOOO!" Some tourists threw rotten tomatoes.
seireikhaan stood firm and proudly started to talk: "This is highly inappropriate. I am after all a human being and you cannot possibly deny me the right to speak."
He shook his head and continued: "As the late Cicero once said to Catilina: "O tempora, O mores!" Yes, dear tourists, fellow participants in this drama: "O tempora, O mores!" How fitting this is indeed. Fitting for two reasons, mind you! First of all, because we are at this magnificent ancient site. Of course, it is very appropriate to quote famours Romans in this place. Secondly, because this display of rudeness and savageness is indeed reason to exclamate the ancient "O tempora, O mores!", which means..."
"Oh come on now, please shut up!" a tourist who was becoming aggressive said and he punched seireikhaan in the face, breaking his nose and jaw.
seireikhaan was on the ground, trying to get at his feet again, when the aggressive tourist kicked him in the stomach.
"O tempora, O mores!" the old man said, all of the sudden. In his hands he held the silenced gun. "Let us do this the civilised way." His hands shaking he pointed the gun at seireikhaan and fired a shot.
Tiberius of the Drake, who had been sleeping, like he had done for, well about roughly 200 hours, woke up, made a silent "Huh?" sound, looked at the hole in his chest and died instantly.
"You idiot!" the aggressive tourist said. He slapped the old man in the face, grabbed the gun out of his hands and pointed it at seireikhaan. Two popping sounds and a few seconds later, seireikhaan dropped dead on the sand of the Odeion, surrounded by his own blood and brains.
The tourists silently left the scene.
***
Tally:
seireikhaan : 2 (187Beefyz, Chaotix27) :skull:
boudica : 1 (Seamus)
GH: 1 ('khaan)
Tiberius : 1 (YLC)
Yoyoma: 1 (Ibn-Khaldun)
Ibn-Khaldun: 1 (Lord Winter)
El Diablo: 1 (GeneralHankerchief)
Abstain: 1 (El Diablo)
Not voting: 6 (boudica, Tiberius, Yoyoma, CountArach, Caius, glyphz)
Alive (13)
boudica
GeneralHankerchief
Tiberius of the Drake
187Beefyz
Chaotix27
YLC
Yoyoma1910
Ibn-Khaldun
Lord Winter
CountArach
Caius
El Diablo
Glyphz
Seamus Fermanagh
Killed (8) :
777Ares777
TheFlax
White_Eyes :D
Reenk Roink
Askthepizzaguy
Quintus.JC
woad&fangs
shlin28
Lynched (6) :
TinCow
Tevashzat
FactionHeir
Jolt
Sigurd
seireikhaan
WoG/Suicide (3):
Rythmic
Ignoramus
Tiberius of the Drake
It's now night. Night will be slightly shorter than usual; +/-23 hours (until 21.30 GMT+1).
PM's please.
Lord Winter
01-19-2009, 22:36
We almost need more bandwaggoning. That lynch shouldn't have happened with only two votes.
seireikhaan
01-19-2009, 22:38
That was pathetic. 2 votes to lynch a person. Good God, this town is doomed.
Congrats. Buh-bye.
GeneralHankerchief
01-19-2009, 22:41
Well, it's pretty much confirmed. The athletic man is dead.
-edit- Not like it matters, but this writeup also demonstrated that I can't be the gun killer. The old guy can't shoot straight.
GH is the old man. The old man suddenly produced a silenced pistol from nowhere. This does not seem right to me, despite GH's assertions that he can't shoot straight. This seems to me to be either a GH masterminded mafia or a lurker mafia. The problem is that I can't tell which it is yet and town population is rapidly dwindling. An accurate lynch is needed next round or we're pretty much doomed.
GeneralHankerchief
01-19-2009, 22:55
Didn't the athletic man have a gun? I think it's just whoever is in charge of the lynch gets one.
Indeed. This is the sign that GH is mafia. Lynching him is quite crucial for a town win, imo.
GeneralHankerchief
01-19-2009, 23:24
You know, I've heard so many suggestions that I'm mafia that I'm starting to believe it myself.
Reenk Roink
01-19-2009, 23:25
Don't listen to the melancholy of anyone town, there are still 13 alive. You did a good job by lynching khaan, now get rid of GH now if you want but definitely in the next 2 rounds. Then focus on the leads, and try not to just simply go after lurkers. Think a bit harder.
GeneralHankerchief
01-19-2009, 23:48
***ANNOUNCEMENT***
Next round, if you plan to vote for me, I would like a detailed explanation of exactly why you are doing this and a good outline of the reasons why you believe I am scummy. Do not do this and the fury of GeneralHankerchief will come down upon you.
I may be lynched, but I'm also the town's greatest asset and I sure as :daisy: am not going down without a fight.
Reenk Roink
01-19-2009, 23:50
Here is a great reason if you feel lazy town.
That the Mafia leave a pro-town role alive this long boggles the mind. Obviously the flip side is the GH is acting so suspicious that they guess he will be killed.
But why didn't they use to wait approach with me? :inquisitive:
GeneralHankerchief
01-19-2009, 23:52
Good, let's start ironing this out now.
Obviously the flip side is the GH is acting so suspicious that they guess he will be killed.
"GH is acting suspicious". I hate that phrase. How specifically?
Reenk Roink
01-19-2009, 23:56
'Suspicious' was probably a bad choice of words though it applies with some of your behaviors exhaustively outlined by others. Whenever I play as Mafia, the thing I look most for is players who draw a lot of attention and leave them alone. Obviously there are exceptions, I killed Kommodus though he was attracting attention because I thought he would stop playing and not use his method, I killed Sasaki because he called me Wenax and pissed me off.
Anyway, you really can't argue the point about you remaining alive. It's clearly not giving certainty, but is a good argument against you nonetheless (nothing really is ever certain in these games).
GeneralHankerchief
01-20-2009, 00:00
'Suspicious' was probably a bad choice of words though it applies with some of your behaviors exhaustively outlined by others.
Okay, so here you admitted you're piggybacking. This is exactly the kind of thing I don't want to see for next round.
Anyway, you really can't argue the point about you remaining alive. It's clearly not giving certainty, but is a good argument against you nonetheless (nothing really is ever certain in these games).
I'm alive because this is exactly what the mafia wanted to happen. They want to discredit me. It's working marvelously.
Or because they're afraid that a botched attack on me (remember, reread my initial role PM) might have potential consequences.
Or because I'm so totally off the mark with my choices that they're content to take the risk of leaving me alive.
What we need is a detailed look at GH's night actions and the statements of the people who have confirmed them. I remain of the opinion that his role, as presented, seems pro-town. If his night actions hold up under scrutiny, I think GH should not be lynched. Under the current circumstances, lynching a potential pro-town role without solid evidence would be extremelly dumb.
GH, if you'd like to help out, please give me a summary of who you blocked each night. I'll go back through the thread sometime tomorrow and compile all of the other statements and evidence that I can, but it would be useful if I had it all in one post for ease of reference.
GeneralHankerchief
01-20-2009, 00:03
Night 1: Block Sigurd and Quintus.
Night 2: Block Reenk and Tevash.
Night 3: Block Seamus and shlin.
Night 4: Block ATPG (failed) and boudica.
Night 5: Block Sigurd and boudica.
Night 6: Block YLC and Beefy.
Night 7: Will reveal upon close of night phase.
Beefy187
01-20-2009, 01:00
Here I was.. Just woke up.. reading through the argument and thinking his probably innocent. I find him already lynched :shame:
Sorry Khaan:shame:
White_eyes:D
01-20-2009, 02:57
Here I was.. Just woke up.. reading through the argument and thinking his probably innocent. I find him already lynched :shame:
Sorry Khaan:shame:
Weird....why do you feel bad you are the.....oops.....:whip: *shuts mouth*
GeneralHankerchief
01-20-2009, 04:27
Just a heads-up, there's supposedly this big event in DC tomorrow that I'm going to get up early for and check out. No idea when I'll be back.
Seamus Fermanagh
01-20-2009, 04:53
Just exchanging one "leader of the free world" for another. Nought to bother about. :wiseguy:
Boudica: Good points were posted as to the timing of things, and I liked the tone of your personal reply. I had no idea that my one vote could come THAT close to killing you. 2 vote lynches this far into a game are not common. For now, you have damped my suspicions.
EDIT
Time for some 'splainin' from:
Chaotix27
10 posts so far, for 0.588 per page. All comments tend to be brief.
Voting pattern is thin but has participated in BOTH 2-vote lynches. Voted for Diablo Day1, missed Day2 and Day 3, voted Beefy on Day4, but then changed to Jolt who had largely been discarded as a suspect because of outright absence, abstained on Day 5, started with Ibn-K on day 6 but changed to caius?!? (a silly lurker vote this far in?) and slammed sereikhaan late in the voting when things had ebbed away from GH. This aced 'khaan.
That's quite a few lynchings for 10 posts in a thread....
Also interesting that you said
Well, dammit. I must apologize for missing not one, but two day phases and lynchings. I've been really busy with school lately, and just keeping up with the insane amount of posts {my bolding}
Only missed the days, did we?
Strangely, you'd found time to make 5 posts over the course of 30 minutes or so the preceding day, roughly 24 hours before your "dammit" reference and more than 18 prior to the voting deadline. Didn't need to check out Ephesus that DAY?
Side Note: Yoyoma bandwagoned Jolt pretty quickly in lock step with Chaotix on Day4; Haven't dug into that yet...
Beefy187
01-20-2009, 14:15
Weird....why do you feel bad you are the.....oops.....:whip: *shuts mouth*
All the arguments took place when I was sleeping :sweatdrop:
To all you American friends, have fun:2thumbsup:
I shall see the big fella on TV when I wake up
Askthepizzaguy
01-20-2009, 14:42
Guys? I know I'm not the most popular townie in the world, but...
Wasn't it me who was suspicious of GH way back when, and then he was basically confirmed to have a role, and he isn't murdered yet?
Just making sure you realize that there are only two options: He's a mafia, or they are keeping him alive as a suspect just to throw you. And given he has a role, or claims to, isn't that just a bit risky?
Someone is playing ballsy, and they have my respect. :bow:
edit:
I know a bunch of people confirmed they were blocked by him. That's swell. But, it is possible that he has a dual role. People can be blockers and mafia at the same time.
But don't listen to me, I've bungled a couple games so far.
Askthepizzaguy
01-20-2009, 16:11
Theory in spoilers.
"O tempora, O mores!" the old man said, all of the sudden. In his hands he held the silenced gun. "Let us do this the civilised way." His hands shaking he pointed the gun at seireikhaan and fired a shot.
"You idiot!" the aggressive tourist said. He slapped the old man in the face, grabbed the gun out of his hands and pointed it at seireikhaan. Two popping sounds and a few seconds later, seireikhaan dropped dead on the sand of the Odeion, surrounded by his own blood and brains.
The man walked forward and pointed a silenced gun at shlin28.
Before he could get a good look on the man's face, a bullet between his eyes ended the life of shlin28.
The man lights a cigarette and slowly walks away.
.....later...
Two bullets mercilessly ended his life.
The man in the shadows puts away his gun, lights a cigar and slowly walks away.
I call to your attention the odd fact that The old man has a silenced gun, and fires a single shot. Single shot man smokes cigarettes. I also note there is still another mafia alive, who always fires two shots. He smokes cigars.
Why would the role blocker, who can block two people, who bores them with stories, need a silenced weapon? GH is also content to believe he is the victim of a massive conspiracy against him, and his posts almost seem to be an apology for not getting the mafioso yet, even after blocking two people every night, since the beginning of the game.
you are never so lucky as to survive this long blocking two people a night. I am sorry, but you are guilty.
Now that you have my little opinion, discuss.
I cannot figure out the O tempora clue. Can anyone help?
O tempora o mores! is a famous sentence by Cicero in his First Oration against Catiline. It translates as Oh the times! Oh the customs!
In his opening speech against Catiline, who had previously tried to kill him, Cicero deplores the viciousness and corruption of his age. Cicero is frustrated that, despite all of the evidence that has been compiled against Catiline, who has been conspiring to overthrow the Roman government, and the fact that the senate has given senatus consultum ultimum, Catiline has not yet been executed. Cicero goes on to describe various times throughout Roman history where consuls have killed conspirators with even less evidence. Sometimes, in the case of former consul Lucius Opimius' slaughter of Gaius Gracchus (one of the Gracchi brothers) based only on "quasdam seditionum suspiciones" certain suspicions of insurrection (Section 2, Line 3))
This sentence is now used as an exclamation to criticize present-day attitudes and trends, often jokingly or ironically.
I've been combing through this thread for info regarding GH for a while now. I've unconvered some interesting stuff. I'll post it later today when I'm done.
Seamus Fermanagh
01-20-2009, 18:48
Pizza: (and TinCow)
Your own argument provided the reason for GH's survival. The Mafiosi are aware that, absent better clues as to who is mafia and who is not, this blocking/protecting thing is a bit random. So, since he can't really enjoin their efforts completely, leaving him alive as a focus of suspicion provides lots of distraction.
Now, the other part about the silenced gun is more interesting. GH's detractors need to build on that to make a case.
COULD der general play on the highwire like you suggest -- oh yes -- but the role blocker thing seems an unlikely combo with mafia status. I do not have enough yet to say your argument is correct and that GH's role should be removed.
Thoughts?
Askthepizzaguy
01-20-2009, 18:51
Seamus, I concur it's not 100%.
But problem:
Gh can block 2 people a night, and has survived how many nights? Eventually, the mafia would be blocked.
Regardless of the value of keeping him alive as a suspect, he's bound to hit them eventually. I wonder why he hasn't.
And why he still lives.
I will comment after the night phase ends.
Yoyoma1910
01-20-2009, 19:04
Side Note: Yoyoma bandwagoned Jolt pretty quickly in lock step with Chaotix on Day4; Haven't dug into that yet...
I voted Jolt the previous day as well.
I voted him again because he maintained that he couldn't be mafia, since he wasn't online during the weekends.
The Scourge of Ephesus - Night 7 - Conclusion
https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Org/Ephesusbynight.jpg
The Ancient Site of Ephesus - 0.00 am
A sudden forecast at Ephesus had darkened the moon and the star constellations making the ancient city dark as the tomb of Saint John.
Seamus had felt uneasy all day as if something evil was brewing in the general area of the ruin city, and had taken to wander amongst the ancient attractions. He finally found himself at the tomb of Saint John. Seamus had since childhood been sensitive to spiritual things and he finally found some peace here at the grave of the apostle.
The clouds dispersed briefly and the moonlight bathed the tomb area in an eerie light. A sudden fright pricked the heart of Seamus as he saw the resemblance of a faint being leaning at one of the pillars. The moon was swallowed by the clouds again and Seamus felt the hair on his neck stand out. He croaked: “W..wh..o are y..you?” The darkness surrounding him gave no answer and the peaceful feeling he had had was replaced by a heavy sense of hatred. The darkness closed around him and he felt as if the darkness wanted to crush him. “What do you want with me?” he screamed to the darkness. It was but a faint croak that slipped past his lips which somehow felt frozen. Yes…. The temperature had fallen and he was shivering. Then something slapped against his face. At first just a faint physical stroke as if a feather was pulled across his face, then harder and harder until it bloodied his nose.
He still couldn’t hear anything. Even the night creatures were silent. Then a faint sound came from nowhere in particular. It grew louder and louder until he could clearly hear that it was laughter. The laugher was wild and unrestrained like a madman’s.
When it finally stopped, a voice boomed out: “ There are just a few more things I would like to try out”. A piercing pain gripped around Seamus’ heart and he slumped to the ground in agony. The pain was unbearable and he was about to surrender his soul to the grave when suddenly it passed, leaving him panting on the marble that gave floor to the tomb.
The moon cleared the sky again and Seamus could see a clear outline of a man standing above him. The face was terrible to look at and the smile of the creature was twisted and it gnashed its teeth when it talked. “I have a mission, dear Seamus and I must leave you be. Talk of this to no-one, or I will be forced to come and see you again”. The eyes of the being started to glow in an eerie reddish color. And when the moon went behind the clouds, only the red eyes were visible in the darkness. The evil presence disappeared when the eyes blinked out and Seamus was left lying next to the tomb stone which read: ST. JEAN IN MEZARI. What was that being and what would befall the tourists here at Ephesus?”
Allthough it seemed like he just imagined his nose bleeding and apparently nothing had happened to him, Seamus was afraid, very afraid.
***
https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Org/Efese-Artemis.jpg
The temple of Artemis - 0.30 am
A man was walking in the vicinity of the ancient temple of Artemis.
He saw a shadow near a pillar and quickly jumped aside, drawing his .44 Magnum.
The man in the shadows was pointing his silenced gun at his target while he was staring at the .44 Magnum.
"Stalemate," I guess, the target said, cold as ice.
"So it seems," his attacker answered.
Both put away their guns and left the scene.
***
https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Org/Efes-theater.jpg
The theater - 1.30 am
El Diablo stood in the theatre and looked around him.
He had always been interested in history and he started to imagine himself, performing for a Roman crowd.
Oh! How great would it have been to be standing here as the main character in a pantomine, wearing a mask.
El Diablo started to dance and sing in the theatre and for a brief moment, he forgot about the lynchings, the killings, the weird accidents; he was happy.
He heard somebody applauding.
He looked up and saw a man clapping in his hands.
"Well, thank you, good sir."
He bowed.
The man quickly drew his gun and two bullets ended El Diablo's life.
"You're welcome," the man calmly said, and he left the theatre, lighting a cigarette.
***
The Scourge of Ephesus - Day 7
https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Org/Efese-Prytaneion.jpg
Ephesus - The Prytaneion - 9.00 am
The tourists gathered near the Prythaneion.
The old man was there already.
"I just found El Diablo's corpse. He was a fine and promising history student, but alas, he is no more." The old man started shaking and trembling.
An aggressive tourist stepped forward and kicked the old man in the stomach.
"Oh, stop it already, you fool. We don't need you telling us what to do."
And so the tourists started to talk. Again...
***
Alive (12)
boudica
GeneralHankerchief
187Beefyz
Chaotix27
YLC
Yoyoma1910
Ibn-Khaldun
Lord Winter
CountArach
Caius
Glyphz
Seamus Fermanagh
Killed (9) :
777Ares777
TheFlax
White_Eyes :D
Reenk Roink
Askthepizzaguy
Quintus.JC
woad&fangs
shlin28
El Diablo
Lynched (6) :
TinCow
Tevashzat
FactionHeir
Jolt
Sigurd
seireikhaan
WoG/Suicide (3):
Rythmic
Ignoramus
Tiberius of the Drake
It's now Day. You can start voting. Day will last +/- 24 hours.
GeneralHankerchief
01-20-2009, 22:52
Score!
I protected Seamus and glyphz, thinking that the mafia would go after Seamus based off kill patterns (killing shlin and Quintus in respective nights).
Will post feedback PM as soon as I get it.
-edit- Here we are.
You found Seamus in agony near the Artemis temple, he's so afraid that he can't speak. You calm him down and take him with you.
After you picked up glyphz, you take them both to the secret corridor.
You started to tell them about Ancient Rome and the history of Turkey. Again, adding stories about Emperors and their pets doesn't help.
They both fall asleep.
Andres.
Now, if you excuse me, I need to rest. Be back in a few hours, hopefully.
Seamus Fermanagh
01-20-2009, 23:00
For those of you with remaining doubts about GH:
GH informed me of who he would protect by PM, with the PM time-stamped 3 minutes BEFORE Andres posted the Night Results.
I suppose an argument could be made because of the leering monster figure above my frightened self that GH is not a Good Guy, but it is quite clear that he is not mafia and saved me from a hit.
Was the attempted "hit" Chaotix' counter-argument to my earlier suspicion?
Vote: Chaotix27
Not sure about the encounter: however, St John the Divine, whose tomb Andres referenced, is the author of Apocalypto (Revelations). There is definitely some form of supernatural overlay to this, and not merely a mafia war.
Were the grave-diggers looking for a number on the bodies?
I am puzzled.
I wrote this earlier today, but held off on posting it because I did not want the mafioso to potentially switch their targets to GH if they weren't already targeting him. On a cursory review of this most recent write-up, I don't see much that would change my results, so I will post it as is. The only thing I will note is that the strange things that happened to Seamus seems to go along with my proto-theories about RR being reincarnated or somehow still active below.
GH Evidence:
Let's start by looking at what GH claims his own role is.
Claimed Role:
The Guide
You are the guide, mentioned in the opening scene.
You have a perfect knowledge of the Ancient City of Ephesus.
Each night, you are allowed to protect two players. When you do so, you’ll hide them in the secret tunnel between the ancient library and the ancient brothel. When you protect a player, you’ll also block his/her actions for that night.
Each night, you have to pm me the names of the people you’re going to protect. Your pm has to reach me before the night ends.
Assination attempts on you might fail under certain circumstances.
Good luck!
Nothing of note in the Role PM. There is a misspelled word, but that's neither evidence for or against a fake as far as I can tell. His role PM claims he blocks AND protects 2 people per night. The role says that the guide was mentioned in the opening scene. This is where he is mentioned:
An old man was giving an explanation to the last group of tourists near the well preserved remnants of the ancient library of Celsus in Ephesus.
Manfredo, aged 60 now, was listening to the explanation of the old man and tried to imagine himself how this building once contained between 12.000 and 15.000 scrolls.
When the old man told about the secret and hidden corridor that once connected the library with a nearby brothel, as to allow the ancient scientists and philosophers to discretely discover some more earthly pleasures, the audience laughed.
Note that the old man was talking to Manfredo, thus the old man cannot be Manfredo.
Night 1 Action:
GH claims he blocks Sigurd and Quintus.
777Ares777 is killed.
Hysterical man (likely RR) "sharpens a blade" and talks about enjoying himself.
No mention of the old man in the write-up.
Claimed results PM:
You wake Sigurd an Quintus up and take them with you, to a secret hiding place.
You bore them with stories about Ephesus until they fall asleep.
Andres.
Sigurd later confirms (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2105891&postcount=421) that he received an Andres PM about this action.
Another misspelling, but nothing suspicious. Both Sigurd and Quintus are now dead, invalidating the idea that one was mafioso and successfully blocked. However, killing only 1 person on the first night is a very good mafia tactic, and thus this round does not look suspicious to me.
Night 2 Action:
GH claims he blocks Reenk and Tevash.
No one is killed.
Digging Duo drop a gun, hysterical man drops a sword. Both are picked up by athletic man.
Hysterical man (likely RR) is talking to a "young one" and says "YOU ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!"
Claimed results PM:
You took Tevash and Reenk with you, to the secret corridor.
You started to tell them about Ancient Rome and the history of Turkey.
Both were so bored by your talking that they fell asleep.
However, somehow you felt like someone else had been watching you. Maybe it's just paranoia, maybe it's something more...
Be careful, Guide...
Andres.
The bolding is missing on the names, but this looks like an Andres PM. Andres is fond of ellipses and these are present. Apparently an investigator of some kind was investigating GH that night.
RR later confirms (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2103586&postcount=295) twice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2105445&postcount=399) that he received an Andres PM about this action.
Tevash later confirms (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2105465&postcount=402) that he received an Andres PM about this action.
Conversation between GH and Andres after that result:
Question: How apparent is it that I've taken people to the secret corridor? (i.e. will the blocked/protected know that they have been blocked/protected?) Also, if anybody tries to kill them will it show up in the thread? I'm guessing it will here since it looks like one of us got investigated the last night, but... PM is not the thread.
Thanks,
GH
Failed attacks will be narrated in the thread.
Role blocks won't be narrated in the thread nor in your night report.
Some role(s) can watch you or the people you are protecting/blocking. Your night report may hint at that, but nothing more then that.
:bow:
Note says that role blocks won't be narrated, but protections will.
The lack of kills this night is nothing suspicious. They Dynamic Duo were digging up corpses, and thus not killing. The only strange thing I see here is that GH is supposed to have blocked RR, but the hysterical man still shows up in the write-up. Then again, he's not actually doing anything except talking to a "young one" so perhaps this isn't contradictory.
Night 3 Action:
GH claims he blocks Seamus and shlin.
TheFlax, White_Eyes :D, and Reenk Roink are killed.
Hysterical man destroys a 'fake' statue.
Claimed results PM:
You took Seamus Fermanagh and shlin28 with you, to the secret corridor.
When you woke up Seamus, you noticed somebody watching him. You don't know what to make of it. Maybe you're just getting paranoid.
Anyway, you took them with you, to the secret place.
You started to tell them about Ancient Rome and the history of Turkey.
Both were so bored by your talking that they fell asleep.
Andres.
Note again an investigation shows up. The investigator was watching Seamus. This is significant for reasons I will get into in a moment.
Seamus later confirms (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2105433&postcount=394) that he received an Andres PM about this action.
Regarding the kills, TheFlax and White_Eyes were killed by our friendly neighborhood mafioso, but Reenk Roink is killed by Manfredo. The Manfredo kill occurred on the same night as an investigation, indicating that they were done by different people. Thus, we have 3 potential pro-town roles: GH (Guide), Manfredo (likely vigilante), and a detective of some sort. This is important because the detective investigated GH on night 2. He has never spoken up to attack GH. If GH had been guilty, this almost certainly would have happened. It has not, so the detective does not think GH is mafioso after investigating him.
Also note that the hysterical man bit is placed in between the kill write-ups for WE and RR. In previous two phases, it was placed first. This implies that its order is intentionally placed. RR is killed AFTER the hysterical man destroys the statue, indicating that he could have been the hysterical man, even though he died that night.
Day 4
GH reveals.
During the lynch phase, GH barely escapes the lynch.
A random tourist makes this interesting statement:
"Well, ok, eh, nevermind. But that senile has to shut up, he annoys me as well! With his hysterical screaming and yelling!"
The "senile" person is engaged in hysterical screaming and yelling? The hysterical man screams and yells, but the old man (GH) is the only one who seems to be senile. If it weren't for the fact that on N6 the hysterical man destroys the statue and the old man (GH) is specifically noted as upset about this, the above bit would make me extremely suspicious of GH.
Night 4 Action:
GH claims he blocks ATPG and boudica.
ATPG is killed by Manfredo.
"Shady man" finds an envelope and is happy about it.
GH's claimed results PM:
You hurried to the place where you were supposed to pick up Askthepizzaguy. You hear voices and a horrible scream. As fast as your old bones can carry you, you run to the temple.
You see a shadow on a wall. Frightened (you're not exactly a hero) you seek cover. You wait a bit and sneak carefully towards the designated spot, only to find ATPG's dead body.
How is this possible? This wasn't supposed to happen! You're starting to tremble, but you still remember your other protégé of the night.
You took boudica with you, to the secret corridor.
You started to tell boudica about Ancient Rome and the history of Turkey.
Like all the others, boudica fell asleep, bored as hell...
Andres.
This is the first night we get some confirmation of GH's role. ATPG is specifically described as going off to visit the old man. This is concrete proof that the old man exists and can do something along the lines of block/protecting someone. Obviously, Manfredo has the ability to kill despite the Guide's protection.
As an aside, note that boudica was blocked on a night when the Dynamic Duo were active digging and Manfredo was killing. She is unlikely to be mafia.
Dunno what's going on with the "shady man". Perhaps this is Manfredo being narrated before he kills ATPG. No idea what the envelope is about.
Night 5 Action:
GH claims he blocks Sigurd and boudica. (Obviously double-checking people who were blocked on nights with decreased kills, a smart pro-town move.)
Quintus.JC is murdered. Manfredo seems to locate a mafioso, but fails in the kill. A silenced pistol goes flying in the process.
Reenk Roink is possibly reincarnated? (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2108305&postcount=506) The hysterical laugh is there, and there's a guy talking about old wounds, which is consistent with RR's death. Then again, the man in black could be Manfredo and the hysterical laugh could be someone else (GH?)
Night 6 Action:
GH claims he blocks YLC and Beefy.
The hysterical man (RR? He's dead, but possible reincarnated earlier? If not reincarnated, then he was never the hysterical man in the first place.) appears to destroy another statue.
shlin28 and woad&fangs are killed.
The old man (GH) is upset that a statue is destroyed. This is evidence that GH and the hysterical man (RR?) are not compatible in their goals.
The athletic man (Manfredo) does not show up at the end, which perhaps indicates he is dead
Day 7:
The old man is narrated as committing the execution. He produces "the silenced gun", but his hand is very shaky and the shot goes awry. This gun is likely the same one that went flying when Mafredo fought the mafioso earlier in the game. I can't figure out how he got it, but with a source for the gun now available, it's not strong evidence against GH. Also, he clearly cannot shoot very well, as his hand shakes and his shot goes awry. This indicates that he is not a killer.
Conclusion:
GH is probably telling the truth and is a pro-town block/doctor role. His night actions are confirmed by four people, Sigurd, RR, Tevash, and Seamus. This is too many for them all to be lying mafiosos. Thus, GH's actions are real and he does what he says. In addition, GH is specifically mentioned as committing actions on nights when both the Digging Duo are active and when Manfredo is active. He is not any of them. Finally, there is a detective out there who is not Manfredo and this detective has investigated GH. He has not publicly come out against GH, indicating that he thinks GH is innocent.
All of the above leads to the conclusion that GH is telling the truth about what he can do. This is all based on solid evidence provided in various ways via Andres, not the entirely questionable in-thread behavior that many other people are using. The question remains what GH's alignment is. Is he pro-town, neutral, or mafioso?
In general, his role appears to be oriented towards the town. There are two things that suggest otherwise. First, GH is still alive. This is certainly questionable, but a smart mafioso might also leave GH alive for the very reason that we keep talking about him and he keeps drawing lynch votes. Second, there are strange hints here and there in the write-ups that somehow connect the "old man" and the "hysterical man." These disturb me greatly, but in the N6 write-up, the old man is specifically said to be upset that the statue has been destroyed. I can't figure out any way that this can interpreted to mean that the old man and the hysterical man are either the same person or in alliance with one another. Thus, based exclusively on the N6 write-up, this second concern should be dismissed unless something else comes up.
So, this leaves us with a verified role that seems pro-town and no reason based in actual evidence to assume that GH is anti-town. Under these circumstances, I simply do not think that lynching GH is the logical thing to do. Is it possible that GH is faking this all? Sure, but the evidence is very strongly in favor of him being pro-town. The best thing to do is put your faith in the evidence provided by Andres himself, not gut-instincts. Solid evidence must trump instinct.
If we eventually get evidence that shows GH is working against the town, then we lynch him. If that never appears and GH really is anti-town, then we can all at least say that the evidence did not point towards a GH lynch and that the town cannot be blamed too heavily for missing something they should have seen.
So, what have we learned from all this?
Do not lynch GH. The preponderance of the evidence supports his claims as to his role. There is a possibility that he is lying, but the evidence is with him. It would be very bad logic to go with a hunch over the evidence that we have before us. IMHO it is worth risking an anti-town GH victory when the evidence available from Andres himself supports GH. If GH is pro-town and we lynch him, I would be ashamed to be a townie due to our idiocy in ignoring the evidence. If GH is mafia and wins, I will congratulate him on a great victory and be content that I did the best I could with the evidence that was given to us.
Pay very close attention to anyone who has been consistently pushing for GH's lynch over the last few days. They are likely mafioso. This is an area where further investigation of the thread would be extremely worthwhile.
In addition, be very, very wary of anything RR says. It's possible that he is some strange hysterical ghost type character. He was killed and may have possibly been resurrected and is knocking over statues once again. He can no longer vote, but it appears to me that he is still submitting night actions. GH's role doesn't like these actions, indicating that they are not being done in the town's interests. DO NOT TRUST RR, at least not until we get more information about what he is/was doing, if anything. As this issue bleeds into the strange references to some kind of relationship between GH and the hysterical man, this area should be investigated further as well.
Sigurd was probably the athletic man/Manfredo. That character disappeared after the Day 5 phase. If you read the lynch writeup (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2109003&postcount=563), you'll notice that it mentions both Sigurd and the athletic man. However, the way it's written is ambiguous and both those statements could be coming from the same person. In addition, for the first time the towns executes the kill, not the athletic man. After this, the athletic man no longer appears in the game. In addition, Sigurd, makes a sly statement (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2109017&postcount=566) which indicates this might be true.
Thus, Sigurd was probably Manfredo and we have lynched the vigilante. Manfredo had found one of the mafioso on a previous night. PAY VERY CLOSE ATTENTION TO ANYONE SIGURD SAYS IS SUSPICIOUS. Sigurd, I'm sure we'd all be grateful if you'd let us know who you think we should lynch.
great analysis, i finally see why your such a fine candidate for the gameroom mafia award :bow:
:bow:
edit.. I am dead and can't reveal.
In reviewing my own analysis, I noticed that I missed something. On N5, GH claims he blocked Sigurd. That night we see what appears to be Manfredo facing down a mafioso. As noted in my conclusion, I believe Sigurd was Manfredo. Was the failed hit by/on Sigurd because of GH's protection? If so, shouldn't this have been narrated in some manner in GH's reply PM from Andres? Alternatively, is this Manfredo's ability to ignore role blocking at play? If none of the above, is there some chance that GH was himself sparring with Manfredo here? If that is true, then GH and Manfredo would not be on the same side. The pertinent question is which one is on the town's side in such a scenario?
Too many questions along that line of reasoning to develop anything from it, but it's something to keep in mind. I'd like to see GH's night results PM for N5. There's no reason for GH not to disclose this and I'm curious why he did not do so earlier.
GeneralHankerchief
01-21-2009, 01:04
N5 and N6 results PMs:
You took boudica and Sigurd with you, to the secret corridor.
You started to tell them about Ancient Rome and the history of Turkey. Disappointed with all those people always falling asleep, you try to make your story more interesting by adding juicy details about Emperor Augustus and his horse.
Alas, they both fall asleep. You seem to be a rather boring story teller...
Andres.
You took Beefy and YLC with you, to the secret corridor.
You started to tell them about Ancient Rome and the history of Turkey. Again, stories about Emperors and their horses don't help.
They both fall asleep. You seem to be a rather boring story teller...
Andres.
I do have a couple of comments about your analysis but I'm writing my inauguration thoughts first.
People Sigurd voted for:
Day 1: Tevashzat (Lynched Day 2)
Day 2: Tevashzat (Lynched Day 2)
Day 3: GH
Day 4: CountArach
Day 5: seireikhaan (Lynched Day 6)
Sigurd was then lynched.
Worth noting, in the process of looking up Sigurd's voting record, there is yet more evidence that Sigurd is both Manfredo and pro-town (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2108585&postcount=537). Based on my previous analysis and this continuing evidence, I would put a lot of faith in following Sigurd's advice.
Sigurd knew who the mafioso was on Night 5, as shown by the attack. This means it was either uncovered that night or earlier via an investigation (see below). While Sigurd voted for seireikhaan on Day 5, he actually said that seireikhaan was probably innocent (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2108994&postcount=560) while the lynch vote was still going on. This indicates he was not going after his known mafioso with his vote that night. He was probably hoping to simply survive the lynch round and then eliminate him in the next night phase. This indicates that the mafioso was still alive at that point.
There are only two people alive who Sigurd voted for: GH and CountArach. Sigurd knew someone was scum, so he almost certainly tried to get one lynched at some point. Let's look at what Sigurd's opinions were on GH and CountArach before he died:
Sigurd is glad GH wasn't lynched. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2105891&postcount=421)
Sigurd thinks GH is pro-town: (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2108555&postcount=529)
I will not retaliate against you since your role is by far more valuable for the town than my vanilla townie role. I can do my analysis dead as alive. Being killed by mafia is the best option since I will be more or less confirmed innocent.
I do however question the decision of not even trying to take you out as you are a threat to any bad guy in this game. Are you communicating with players outside this game? Do you discuss with others your choice of blocks? Have you learned that attempts have been made on the players you protect?
Incidentally, this post includes more tidbits from Sigurd:
We need to figure out if the athletic man/shadow killer, which I think is YLC, is bad for town. Up until now he has killed twice. Does he investigate on the nights he is not killing? that would count for night one and two and five.
He is essentially saying he was investigating on night 1, 2, and 5.
Sigurd's only significant analysis post of the game (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2106851&postcount=465). He puts a lot of effort into the post and then ends with a relatively minor and insignificant reason for voting for CountArach. This seems like a contradiction to me. Indeed, in hindsight it looks like Sigurd created the analysis post as an excuse to hide his vote for CountArach, because he did not want to explain his real reason for voting for CountArach. This is consistent with Sigurd knowing that CountArach is mafioso based on night actions alone.
So, let's do another summary:
1) Sigurd was almost certainly a pro-town vigilante/detective Manfredo.
2) Manfredo knew who at least one mafioso was.
3) The only person Sigurd has put any effort into lynching is CountArach
Conclusion:
Lynch CountArach
Lord Winter
01-21-2009, 01:40
Its hard to argue against a couple pages of anyalsis.
Vote: CA
A response would be nice to hear.
The only problem with your anylsis is that its putting alot of weight on the write up. I havn't played in any other games by andres but is it typical of him to put clues in?
CountArach
01-21-2009, 01:47
I'm very tired after watching the inauguration last night (4am - what is this madness?). I'll get something up soon though.
CountArach
01-21-2009, 02:16
Alright TinCow, I find your analysis interesting, though there are a few crucial problems which you haven't covered yet.
He is essentially saying he was investigating on night 1, 2, and 5.
Here is the first problem. If Sigurd knew I was mafia after an investigation result on Night 2, why did he wait until Day 4 to vote for me? Surely he would vote for me on Day 3 to try to get rid of one mafia member as soon as possible. So why did he vote for GH instead? It becomes even more unconvincing if you believe that I was investigated on Night 1.
Further - why did he not use his vigilante abilities to try to kill me at some point?
He puts a lot of effort into the post and then ends with a relatively minor and insignificant reason for voting for CountArach. This seems like a contradiction to me. Indeed, in hindsight it looks like Sigurd created the analysis post as an excuse to hide his vote for CountArach, because he did not want to explain his real reason for voting for CountArach.
Another problem here. If Sigurd knew I was mafia then why didn't he go looking for evidence in my posts? Once a detective knows that someone is mafia then it isn't hard to find legitimate proof in the thread.
GeneralHankerchief
01-21-2009, 02:19
Okay, too tired to do anything else today. Will contribute tomorrow.
For now, my only problem with TC's analysis is the Sigurd/Vig/Manfredo connection in light of the most recent writeups (Mexican standoff).
Vote: abstain
Well, after those huge analysis posts I am probably not in danger of being lynched this round, but nonetheless I am now seen as scummy by at least one person, so I'll have to provide a defense for myself.
Time for some 'splainin' from:
Chaotix27
10 posts so far, for 0.588 per page. All comments tend to be brief.
Voting pattern is thin but has participated in BOTH 2-vote lynches. Voted for Diablo Day1, missed Day2 and Day 3, voted Beefy on Day4, but then changed to Jolt who had largely been discarded as a suspect because of outright absence, abstained on Day 5, started with Ibn-K on day 6 but changed to caius?!? (a silly lurker vote this far in?) and slammed sereikhaan late in the voting when things had ebbed away from GH. This aced 'khaan.
That's quite a few lynchings for 10 posts in a thread....
Also interesting that you said
{my bolding}
Only missed the days, did we?
Strangely, you'd found time to make 5 posts over the course of 30 minutes or so the preceding day, roughly 24 hours before your "dammit" reference and more than 18 prior to the voting deadline. Didn't need to check out Ephesus that DAY?
Side Note: Yoyoma bandwagoned Jolt pretty quickly in lock step with Chaotix on Day4; Haven't dug into that yet...
Alright. The main reason why I am so irregular with voting rounds is because... well, I have an irregular schedule. I am still in high school, and so generally I don't get home till 4 every weekday, and sometimes not until 7 if I have one of my various after-school practices. Add on to that homework, studying for tests, and reports, and I don't have a whole lot of free time. I may have a lot of homework one day, and the next I may not. There's really no predicting it. That free time that I do have is not always spent here, either- I do have a life and other things to do.
In fact, I could use today as an example. I got home roughly an hour and a half ago (7:00 my time) and have 2 essays due tomorrow, one of which I haven't started yet. So I find myself conflicted as to how much longer I should actually spend writing this lengthy defense post. :laugh4:
As for votes:
Day 1- Nothing wrong with that vote, I suppose?
Day 2 I missed outright due to homework.
Day 3- You are right, I was online earlier this day, and got sidetracked (I honestly can't remember exactly what now that it's been about a week). I planned on returning later to vote, and you'll notice I did, but had missed the deadline by about an hour or two (I think.) That's why I had cause for the "dammit".
Day 4- I voted for Jolt, as I believe I said, because he had contradicted himself, and made it seem it was obvious he was innocent because he had not been there, something I found scummy. Additionally, it was pure chance he was lynched.
Day 5- I did not have time to read through the thread and vote intelligently, but I did not want to WoG'ed for missing another round. Hence the abstain.
Day 6 was hectic. I had a lot of time, as it was the weekend, and so I changed my vote multiple times as new suspects appeared to me. My vote on I-K was because of his behavior, which was universally suspicious looking, if perhaps "noobish". Voting Caius was just humoring GH because I thought he had some sort of plan. I intended to, and did change it later, when he did not respond. My vote on seireikhaan- the way I saw it, either GH or khaan was going to be lynched that day. GH had a much better track record than khaan, and khaan looked fairly suspicious with his huge accusation post out of nowhere- I decided it would be best if GH remained alive, and so I voted khaan to ensure his survival. Who would you have picked between the two?
As for my using the phrase "Day Phase" and not "Night Phase": Are you just looking for more little reasons to lynch me? Generally speaking, a townie cannot "miss" a night phase because there is nothing for him to miss. I said "Day Phase" because that's when I should have been active to vote.
And finally, as for the surprise attack on Seamus: Killing you wouldn't have shut you up. In fact, it probably would have made you more against me. Thus, if I even were a mafia, killing you would still have not been in my favor. Surely you realize this?
Phew. Is that enough 'splaining for ya? I'll be off to go do my essays, and I may be on later to vote. Until then, Vote: Abstain
Rather convincing essay you have their TC - I will follow it's lead for now and wait for GH to post.
Vote:CountArach
Alright TinCow, I find your analysis interesting, though there are a few crucial problems which you haven't covered yet.
Here is the first problem. If Sigurd knew I was mafia after an investigation result on Night 2, why did he wait until Day 4 to vote for me? Surely he would vote for me on Day 3 to try to get rid of one mafia member as soon as possible. So why did he vote for GH instead? It becomes even more unconvincing if you believe that I was investigated on Night 1.
I don't know why he waited that long. That information isn't in the thread and that's all I've got to go off of. He was busy killing RR and ATPG on Nights 3 & 4. Perhaps they were higher priorities for some reason. Perhaps he got the info on you later. There are reasons that would make sense for a pro-town Sigurd and reasons that wouldn't. I'm not trying to railroad you, just trying to help the town win with the only tool I have available: this thread.
Further - why did he not use his vigilante abilities to try to kill me at some point?
Did you just slip-up? I was actually alleging that he did just that on Night 5, resulting in the stand-off situation. That is what I claimed in my analysis. However, in hindsight, I realize that the Night 5 hit could have been either way: Manfredo killing mafia or mafia killing Manfredo. I thought it was Manfredo killing mafia and said so.
So how did you arrive at the conclusion that he never tried to kill you? Is it perhaps that you know that the Night 5 hit was you attacking him? I will admit though that this line of thought poses some interesting issues. If Manfredo was the recipient of the attack, rather than the attacker, then it would instead have been a situation in which the mafioso knew who he was on Day 5 rather than the other way around. I would thus have expected the mafioso to vote for Sigurd, especially since he was up for lynching that day. Yet you abstained, which is a bit of evidence in your favor. The people who voted for Sigurd that day were GH, YLC, w&f. w&f is dead, leaving YLC and the guy who always seems to turn up in the wrong places in my analysis, GH. Argh.
Another problem here. If Sigurd knew I was mafia then why didn't he go looking for evidence in my posts? Once a detective knows that someone is mafia then it isn't hard to find legitimate proof in the thread.
Dunno.
Beefy187
01-21-2009, 03:44
Ill restrain my self from hoping on the popular vote and wait for CAs defense.
CountArach
01-21-2009, 04:21
I don't know why he waited that long. That information isn't in the thread and that's all I've got to go off of. He was busy killing RR and ATPG on Nights 3 & 4. Perhaps they were higher priorities for some reason. Perhaps he got the info on you later. There are reasons that would make sense for a pro-town Sigurd and reasons that wouldn't. I'm not trying to railroad you, just trying to help the town win with the only tool I have available: this thread.
Alright:
What could be higher priority than killing a mafia family member?
How could he get the information on me later if he only investigates when he can't kill?
Can you name one of these reasons for Sigurd not to try to kill me?
Did you just slip-up? I was actually alleging that he did just that on Night 5, resulting in the stand-off situation. That is what I claimed in my analysis. However, in hindsight, I realize that the Night 5 hit could have been either way: Manfredo killing mafia or mafia killing Manfredo. I thought it was Manfredo killing mafia and said so.
Alright, now I understand what you mean. That still leaves the question of why he didn't try to kill me earlier open. If a vigilante knows for sure who a family member is, that family member will be killed ASAP.
So how did you arrive at the conclusion that he never tried to kill you?
Every night action he has made has already been accounted for. None of them involved killing me - ergo my conclusion is that he never tried to kill me.
Honestly I can't see how you could conclude that Sigurd knew I was mafia, yet chose not to kill me.
....back. As expected, everybody seems too concerned with GH or CA to care much about my explanation. I will take it that everybody has accepted it, then? :grin: Or perhaps I should wait till Seamus sees it to draw that conclusion.
Anyway, TinCow seems to have provided a solid defense for GH, and CA a solid defense for himself. Unfortunately for me, this puts me at a loss as to who to vote for. :thinking:
I will try to get in a vote early tomorrow or at school.
Alright:
What could be higher priority than killing a mafia family member?
How could he get the information on me later if he only investigates when he can't kill?
Can you name one of these reasons for Sigurd not to try to kill me?
Alright, now I understand what you mean. That still leaves the question of why he didn't try to kill me earlier open. If a vigilante knows for sure who a family member is, that family member will be killed ASAP.
Every night action he has made has already been accounted for. None of them involved killing me - ergo my conclusion is that he never tried to kill me.
Honestly I can't see how you could conclude that Sigurd knew I was mafia, yet chose not to kill me.
Again, my conclusion was that Sigurd did try to kill you on Night 5. If this is wrong, then my assumption about you is wrong and thus my basis for urging your lynch. I'm still not positive on whether Manfredo was the attacker or the target in the N5 write-up. I will look into it in more detail tomorrow (I'm off to bed now). If someone wants to help a bit in the meantime, go check how many pro-town roles there were in the previous game.
Anyway, TinCow seems to have provided a solid defense for GH, and CA a solid defense for himself. Unfortunately for me, this puts me at a loss as to who to vote for. :thinking:
I am slowly starting to run into logical roadblocks. I am getting a nagging feeling that only one of GH and Sigurd are pro-town, not both. However, I can't tell whether I'm just imaging this due to incomplete evidence or things I don't know, or whether it is true. Even if it is true, I'm not finding much to help me figure out which one would be the right one to trust.
I'm out for the night now. Hopefully when I wake up, someone will have fixed the holes in my various theories.
seireikhaan
01-21-2009, 05:18
I can't believe you guys aren't lynching GH. :no:
White_eyes:D
01-21-2009, 05:25
I can't believe you guys aren't lynching GH. :no:
I know how you feel Khaan.....its how I feel on your game:shame:
GH is the PRIME suspect but one or two faked pms later......and BOOM...."he might be Mafia but let's just keep a close eye on him.":wall:
Seamus Fermanagh
01-21-2009, 05:30
'khaan:
I too have some "nagging feelings" about GH's pro-town status. He's played me before (and likely will again). Otoh, he protected me, has clued me in in advance as to his protection/role block/boring lecture recipients for several game nights now...and as TinCow's analysis shows, all of that tallies up with GH's role, as claimed being correct (but complete?) and that he is NOT mafia. So, lynching him at present doesn't seem correct.
Chaotix, I cannot be certain of your response, but you did address the points I made. My "day" commentary was largely for literary effect -- the tone was guaranteed to generate a response from you, which was my purpose.
You can be assured that the analysts of this game now have grist with which to evaluate you. I am not certain of you, your day 2/3 absence can still be seen as mafia lurking, but I am content not to vote for you at present.
Unvote: Chaotix27
Tincow: CA does point up a limitation in your assessment of Sigurd and his intentions. I think you are on the right track, but I am uncertain of the "CA was his next target" analysis. Very possible, but not conclusive yet. As I hear/evaluate more, I may shift, but for now...
Vote: abstain
Very much appreciate TinCow contributing even after being voted off N1, thus I have little reason to doubt your intentions and interested to see what comes out of it hopefully in this coming write-up.:bow:
And so,
Vote: CountArach
Also, I don't think GH, a protector/blocker, could be mafia. Four people did confirm being blocked on nights the mafia did 2 kills. The one where GH blocked Atpg, but failed? Don't know what happened there, unfortunately, only Andres knows...
edit: Can anyone confirm that a blocker was mafia ina previous game
CountArach
01-21-2009, 07:04
Why am I still being bandwagonned? I have explained why I am a bad lynch candidate - the case against me is built on incomplete/wrong evidence.
Beefy187
01-21-2009, 09:18
Out of 12 peoples alive three are killers (assuming that each mafia gets one killed per night)
Candidates
boudica (yet to speak this round. Apparently busy)
GeneralHankerchief (Role blocker for now)
187Beefyz Imma innocent.. Rargh!
Chaotix27
YLC
Yoyoma1910 (Yet to speak this round)
Ibn-Khaldun (Yet to speak this round)
Lord Winter
CountArach
Caius lurking both in this game and the other
Glyphz
Seamus Fermanagh kidnapped last night. Should be inactive
Now since two of the killer met each other. Wanted to kill each other. So they are enemies.
And if they don't lynch each other, they will end up in eternal stalemate unless with the help of the bigger mafias buddy. But I'm assuming they rather lynch them.
So using this theory, I think one of the mafia is CA. While his defense was adequate, according to the more experienced analyzer, he was scummy.
As atm, there is no one ales being voted (Chaotix doesn't count as Seamus cannot be the shooter), I think CA could be one of the mafia. And if not either Yoyoma or Ibn-Khaldun is.
Now if CA is indeed a mafia, then one of the rival mafia member could be amongst those who joined the CA bandwagon.
I think my theory doesn't have flaws except the fact that CA is probably innocent. If CA is indeed a mafia, then he would've revenge voted for the person who is a member of the enemy mafia.
Which makes me think that either both mafia who had a standoff were lurkers (or possibly all three of them) or mafia shook there hands.
Vote:Yoyoma
For now as he is the most active amongst the lurkers.
EDIT: I never heard of role blocker being the mafia. It could mean that role blocker is neutral then later recruited as part of the mafia
(one of them destroyed the statue and GH the old man loves the history yes?) but I think role blocker being the mafia is weird.
Ibn-Khaldun
01-21-2009, 10:42
That was a nice long post against CountArach and thus...
Vote: CountArach
I don't have anything against CA, so I won't be voting against him, but voting anything else won't make a difference at this point, so I shall vote: abstain but I don't think the bandwaggon has helped - (has all TinCow's hard work has actually been read by everyone voting?) @Khaan - I honestly don't think GH CAN be mafia - why would we lynch him?
CountArach
01-21-2009, 11:07
FoS: Everyone who bandwaggoned me without contributing something.
Stifling debate is scummy.
I'm waiting on a clarification from Andres before I discuss the CA situation more.
In the meantime, I'd like to express some concern about what happened to Seamus last night (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2112513&postcount=670). This looks an awful lot like he has been 'possessed' by an evil spirit. Given that Andres allowed townies to be converted to mafia mid-way through the game, I am concerned that we have just seen Seamus go from good to bad here.
I am also concerned about why GH's protection did not work. GH shows up after the attack occurrs and the description does not give any indication that GH's arrival somehow saved Seamus. Instead, it looks like the evil presence finished up and went on his way before GH arrived. This is now the second time GH has protected someone who was attacked in some manner at night, with the first being ATPG on Night 4. Both times he appears to have failed. If GH is a doctor, he is the worst doctor I've ever seen in mafia.
Ok, got some my clarification. Here's what happened:
In this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2112601&postcount=675), Sigurd responded to my request that he give us advice on who to lynch with a response along the lines of "I would lynch someone I previously accused and voted for." Based on this response, I wrote up my analysis of who Sigurd had voted for and attacked to figure out who he was referring to. After I posted this, Sigurd edited out his post and changed it to the current message about being unable to reveal after being dead. I assumed there had been a rule violation and changed my own analysis to remove references to his statement.
However, I have now confirmed with Andres that Sigurd's original statement was perfectly legal:
At the end of my massive analysis, I asked Sigurd to suggest who we should lynch. I didn't think this was asking something that broke the rules, as I was only asking his opinion on the game which is something that dead players are allowed to do. Sigurd replied in this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2112601&postcount=675) with a statement along the lines of "I would lynch someone I accused before and voted for." Based on that statement, I wrote my reply going after CA. However, when I posted my reply, Sigurd had edited out his response and replaced it with the bit about him being dead and unable to reveal. Out of courtesy, I removed my quote of his old statement from my post, along with a few other references.
However, I now find myself struggling to defend the accusation of CA. A large part of it depends on Sigurd's most recent statement, which has been edited out. Did he edit that out because you asked him to? If so, how is suggesting who he would lynch breaking the rules? I'm dead and am perfectly able to point fingers at people, so shouldn't Sigurd be able to as well?
Hi TC,
Sigurd did not break any rules.
Andres.
So, this is what I was basing my analysis of CA on. Sigurd wanted us to lynch someone he had previously voted for and lynched (edit: this should read "accused"). The only people left alive that he voted for are GH and CA. As I noted, most of his statements about GH indicated that he thought GH was innocent, while he made that large analysis post before voting for CA. Thus, my suspicion of CA. Before we decide to lynch CA we need to discuss the following things:
1) Why did Sigurd change his answer?
2) Was Sigurd possibly referring to GH instead of CA?
3) Is Sigurd actually pro-town, or would eliminating his preferred target hurt us?
I find it funny that all people GH blocked fall asleep in his cave. Is this a simple coincidence? After they are asleep, what does GH do? It's quite odd that noone stays awake to actually see if GH remains in the cave. My bet goes to GH's being scummy.
...
1) Why did Sigurd change his answer?
I guess this needs an answer.
According to Andres I did no wrong. I believed however that I was breaking the sportsmanship rule.
For clarification:
Andres, I posted this in the thread:
*** censured ***I edited it out, but I'm afraid other players saw it as well. If I ruined your game by breaking your rules, then please, accept my apology :embarassed:
Sigurd
Hey Sigurd,
You didn't violate any rule.
Andres.
P.S.: feel free to quote this in the thread.
Yoyoma1910
01-21-2009, 16:02
Vote:Yoyoma
For now as he is the most active amongst the lurkers.
I suppose I deserve that, though I am innocent.
I've just become frustrated by the clues, and feel as though I am chasing my own tail. I have no idea who it is whatsoever.
I also just had to heave a mental brick in RL, and my synapses are toasted, so I don't know if I could really post anything constructive ATM. Therefor I think anything I publish to this thread right now would simply be distracting.
I would, however, be happy to tell you a cow joke.
I will have to Vote: Ibn-Khaldun, because once again he's jumping on the bandwagon with little reason. Gah.
Yoyoma1910
01-21-2009, 17:11
The Scourge of Ephesus - Night 7 - Conclusion
https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Org/Ephesusbynight.jpg
The Ancient Site of Ephesus - 0.00 am
A sudden forecast at Ephesus had darkened the moon and the star constellations making the ancient city dark as the tomb of Saint John.
Seamus had felt uneasy all day as if something evil was brewing in the general area of the ruin city, and had taken to wander amongst the ancient attractions. He finally found himself at the tomb of Saint John. Seamus had since childhood been sensitive to spiritual things and he finally found some peace here at the grave of the apostle.
The clouds dispersed briefly and the moonlight bathed the tomb area in an eerie light. A sudden fright pricked the heart of Seamus as he saw the resemblance of a faint being leaning at one of the pillars. The moon was swallowed by the clouds again and Seamus felt the hair on his neck stand out. He croaked: “W..wh..o are y..you?” The darkness surrounding him gave no answer and the peaceful feeling he had had was replaced by a heavy sense of hatred. The darkness closed around him and he felt as if the darkness wanted to crush him. “What do you want with me?” he screamed to the darkness. It was but a faint croak that slipped past his lips which somehow felt frozen. Yes…. The temperature had fallen and he was shivering. Then something slapped against his face. At first just a faint physical stroke as if a feather was pulled across his face, then harder and harder until it bloodied his nose.
He still couldn’t hear anything. Even the night creatures were silent. Then a faint sound came from nowhere in particular. It grew louder and louder until he could clearly hear that it was laughter. The laugher was wild and unrestrained like a madman’s.
When it finally stopped, a voice boomed out: “ There are just a few more things I would like to try out”. A piercing pain gripped around Seamus’ heart and he slumped to the ground in agony. The pain was unbearable and he was about to surrender his soul to the grave when suddenly it passed, leaving him panting on the marble that gave floor to the tomb.
The moon cleared the sky again and Seamus could see a clear outline of a man standing above him. The face was terrible to look at and the smile of the creature was twisted and it gnashed its teeth when it talked. “I have a mission, dear Seamus and I must leave you be. Talk of this to no-one, or I will be forced to come and see you again”. The eyes of the being started to glow in an eerie reddish color. And when the moon went behind the clouds, only the red eyes were visible in the darkness. The evil presence disappeared when the eyes blinked out and Seamus was left lying next to the tomb stone which read: ST. JEAN IN MEZARI. What was that being and what would befall the tourists here at Ephesus?”
Allthough it seemed like he just imagined his nose bleeding and apparently nothing had happened to him, Seamus was afraid, very afraid.
***
https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Org/Efese-Artemis.jpg
The temple of Artemis - 0.30 am
A man was walking in the vicinity of the ancient temple of Artemis.
He saw a shadow near a pillar and quickly jumped aside, drawing his .44 Magnum.
The man in the shadows was pointing his silenced gun at his target while he was staring at the .44 Magnum.
"Stalemate," I guess, the target said, cold as ice.
"So it seems," his attacker answered.
Both put away their guns and left the scene.
***
https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Org/Efes-theater.jpg
The theater - 1.30 am
El Diablo stood in the theatre and looked around him.
He had always been interested in history and he started to imagine himself, performing for a Roman crowd.
Oh! How great would it have been to be standing here as the main character in a pantomine, wearing a mask.
El Diablo started to dance and sing in the theatre and for a brief moment, he forgot about the lynchings, the killings, the weird accidents; he was happy.
He heard somebody applauding.
He looked up and saw a man clapping in his hands.
"Well, thank you, good sir."
He bowed.
The man quickly drew his gun and two bullets ended El Diablo's life.
"You're welcome," the man calmly said, and he left the theatre, lighting a cigarette.
***
The Scourge of Ephesus - Day 7
https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Org/Efese-Prytaneion.jpg
Ephesus - The Prytaneion - 9.00 am
The tourists gathered near the Prythaneion.
The old man was there already.
"I just found El Diablo's corpse. He was a fine and promising history student, but alas, he is no more." The old man started shaking and trembling.
An aggressive tourist stepped forward and kicked the old man in the stomach.
"Oh, stop it already, you fool. We don't need you telling us what to do."
And so the tourists started to talk. Again...
***
Alive (12)
boudica
GeneralHankerchief
187Beefyz
Chaotix27
YLC
Yoyoma1910
Ibn-Khaldun
Lord Winter
CountArach
Caius
Glyphz
Seamus Fermanagh
Killed (9) :
777Ares777
TheFlax
White_Eyes :D
Reenk Roink
Askthepizzaguy
Quintus.JC
woad&fangs
shlin28
El Diablo
Lynched (6) :
TinCow
Tevashzat
FactionHeir
Jolt
Sigurd
seireikhaan
WoG/Suicide (3):
Rythmic
Ignoramus
Tiberius of the Drake
It's now Day. You can start voting. Day will last +/- 24 hours.
St. John the Apostle... why?
Ice Cold... Lord Winter?
Two Shots... Double name?
Cigarette vs. Cigar... small dog vs. big dog?
Yoyoma1910
01-21-2009, 17:20
Currently Vote:abstain till I can sort through everything.
GeneralHankerchief
01-21-2009, 18:29
All right, TinCow, for the most part I agree with your analysis (and of course, its general conclusion). However, I'd like to point out a couple of flaws on your part.
Assumption: The Detective is pro-town.
Flaw: We don't know this for sure. There are at least four anti-town roles in the game as per the opening writeup, and probably more if we count all of the night actions. If all of these roles killed, then the game would be over by now. Now, I realize that this hampers part of my case considering that the Detective hasn't come out against me, so I'll provide a counterargument.
Counter-argument: OTOH, the Digging Duo accounts for a two of these non-killers. That, and we may have unknowingly gotten rid of the Detective, whether by night kill or lynching. Also, I doubt that the mafia could have had one without the Town getting a similar role.
Theory: If there was a mafioso Detective, could have been ATPG, who investigated me and possibly Seamus on consecutive nights. You'll note that Andres specifically ended my N2 results PM with a "Be careful, Guide..." which I find interesting considering the Detective's normal benevolence. ATPG then came out against me hard on Day 4, and was then removed that night be a super-killer who blasted through my protection. Possibly Manfredo acting in his vigilante role, although I might have a problem with this (see below).
Assumption: Until last night, GH has been terrible with his picks (n.b. I don't think this was made by TC but it has definitely been brought up, so I'm addressing it).
Flaw: There is so much variation in the nighttime activities that we can't know for sure. In my selections, up until last night, I've been trying to isolate certain factors and introduce new picks in order to produce new combinations of activities. I could theoretically take a night off and not block anybody to get a "control" result of sorts, but I'd rather not at this stage of the game.
Theory: So far, the Digging Duo has shown up every even-numbered night, except N6. Now, it could mean that we've removed them from action, although judging by the supernaturalness of the past couple of nights, maybe they've achieved their mission as well. OTOH, it's also possible that YLC and/or Beefy are part of the Duo.
Assumption: Sigurd is Manfredo is the vigilante is the athletic man.
Flaw: This one's a bit more complicated. First of all, it's also possible that shlin or woad were the athletic man, him disappearing sometime between Sigurd's lynch and the next day phase. I'm not denying that the athletic man is pro-town, or that he's dead. But I question whether he's also the vigilante. As the N7 writeups show, there was a Mexican standoff. The way Andres wrote it, it seemed like both people sent in orders to kill each other. Thus, I wouldn't be so certain that our vigilante is out of action yet. This is also the second time this has happened, the other being the N5 writeup (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2108305&postcount=506) when the target seemed to be ready for an attack. Both times the attacker was "the man in shadows", or the same person that offed ATPG.
Theory: I think these two people have identified each other's roles and have desperately been trying to off each other. Both times they met, they both sent in orders to kill the other, which were cancelled out.
Alternative theory: The vigilante is not dead, but he's also not the athletic man. After all, in Andres's initial PM to me he said that attempts on my life would fail under certain conditions. Maybe the vig's PM has the same "power". This explains the first failed attack. The second failed attack, the vig seemed to be ready, and thus submitted kill orders for his attacker, which was cancelled out.
Another flaw: If Sigurd is Manfredo, and Manfredo "located a mafioso" in N5 as TC suggests... how? I blocked him that night.
Conclusion: I do not believe Sigurd to be Manfredo, and I do not believe Manfredo to be the vigilante to be one in the same. Considering Andres's penchant for having pro-town roles run the lynches, the athletic man probably had powers, but it was somebody else. Either that, or the athletic man's still around, just not running the lynches anymore. After all, at the end of N5 Andres hinted (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2108305&postcount=506) that the athletic man's role as lynch leader was just about over. Also, Sigurd specifically stated that he:
a) believed me, and
b) was ONLY a townie.
If he was more than a townie and still believed me, why didn't he get in contact with me? I could have provided some protection and we could have coordinated our efforts. I'm more inclined to believe that Sigurd was just a townie (if not a mafioso) and thus, there is no special reasoning for his vote on CountArach.
Now, CA may very well be guilty, but IMHO it's not because of what TC and Sigurd had said. Instead, let's look at the previous couple of kills.
In N5 and N6, Quintus and shlin were killed, respectively. Both times their killer engaged them in conversation and then shot them in the head. This makes it extremely likely that they were killed by the same person, and that that person was killing based off of my previous blocks, since both people were pretty much exonerated due to a combination of my blocking/the number of night kills.
I saw the pattern and anticipated that they would go after Seamus next, which they did. Since his failed kill writeup is extremely different from anything else, it's hard to say exactly what happened, but you'll notice that El Diablo was killed with two bullets as opposed to the customary one bullet to the head.
Thus, it's pretty clear that at least one person is basing a significant amount of their gameplay, at least at night, on my actions. Does this mean that boudica, who is also seemingly exonerated, is next? Possibly, and the mafioso has to figure out for himself whether I'm going to protect her tonight.
The question, though, is how much they are also basing their play in the daytime off my actions. Speaking from experience, I as a mafioso try to construct two distinctly separate personalities for a game: my nighttime personality, which is my true self, almost like a general reviewing tactics, or a scientist trying to predict probable outcomes based on the choices I make. Then, there is my day personality, which I keep separate from my nighttime self and is basically "how do I not get lynched this round?" (and, in addition, if applicable, how do I also set myself up for a long-term run in this game?)
I think the mafioso has demonstrated that he is a very smart player in this game and is probably doing the same thing, thus probably for the most part ignoring my whole daytime drama in the game. I thus look for a bandwagoner on CountArach this round. Normally this would be IK, but his behavior is pretty consistent right now. There's also glyphz, but by my theories at night (one block, one kill, two actions cancelling each other out), he's innocent.
We're left, then, with either those who have voted for IK or the those who have yet to vote. Out of everyone alive:
boudica
GeneralHankerchief
187Beefyz
Chaotix27
YLC
Yoyoma1910
Ibn-Khaldun
Lord Winter
CountArach
Caius
Glyphz
Seamus Fermanagh
I believe boudica, myself, IK, Caius (inactivity), glyphz, and Seamus to be innocent, leaving:
187Beefyz
Chaotix27
YLC
Yoyoma1910
Lord Winter
CountArach
Now it gets a bit harder. Seamus has already put pressure on Chaotix, who has claimed real life as a reason for his absence. Considering the amount of night actions, I also wonder if he's had time to send in things at night. Seamus makes a good point about Chaotix's "Day phase" comment, but I'm not sure.
Beefy refrained from jumping on the CA bandwagon, but his play in the Golden Rule serves as a wake-up call that he is a skilled mafioso. He was blocked on a night when there were three actions, including two kills.
YLC is an interesting case. A few nights ago, when it was believed that he had some influence in the mafia's kills, he PM'd me suggesting I block himself and boudica to see if I could get a successful protection and also clear himself. Now, his intentions could be good, but he also could have done it to throw a bunch of people off-track, including me (he could have gone another way at night). For the record, I took half his advice, blocking boudica but not him. I eventually blocked him a night or two later along with Beefy.
Yoyoma is also claiming inactivity, and I think he's telling the truth. I don't see him getting in a night order in on a night when there were four actions.
Lord Winter is starting a new trend for him in this game and Chicago Soiree in which he's actively contributing. I can't really get a read on him.
CountArach has skillfully defended himself from TC's (and by extension, Sigurd's) attacks, but I would expect this from CA. I don't think he's innocent, but as a result of me not believing Sigurd's being a pro-town power role, don't think he's guilty either. I will leave him alone for now, since a vote at this stage would mean the kiss of death for him.
To me, it all comes back to YLC and that PM:
GH, I need you to do something for me. If you have no better targets tonight, please block me and boudica. I think boudica maybe mafia, and I'd like your help in confirming it, and as a bonus you may block me - I'm not, but if I'm cleared I'll be more help to the town. So far, the "SK" has listened to me each night on whom I wish dead - killing RR and then ATPG in row, and I hope to be able to manipulate them into killing another suspect. If at some point they don't, and you knowing I am innocent, they lose their cover, and we can then safely lynch the target I "proposed" to the SK.
Thoughts?
I don't plan to tell anybody who I will block until the night is over for obvious reasons, but I will keep your plan in mind. :bow:
Wise choice, and thank you for considering my rather rash proposal :bow:
Why did he send this? Maybe because he had the town's best interests at heart, but maybe also to totally throw me off. I'll note that he voted for CA this round, but has also been paying a ton of attention to my little saga in this thread. Earlier, YLC was under some suspicion for having influence over kills. Is he the type that slips under the radar when under pressure or does he try to turn things around and actively get on people's good side?
From what I know of him, it's likely the latter, although I'd appreciate someone giving me his Gameroom history.
Unvote: Abstain
Vote: YLC
GeneralHankerchief
01-21-2009, 19:13
Also, I really, really hope Andres does a commentary for this game.
Interesting ideas, GH. I disagree with two of your theories.
1) The two 'Mexican standoff' situations were two people submitting orders to attack each other.
Night 5 Standoff:
A man was hiding in the shadows when he saw his target slowly walking into the Odeion.
He jumped out of his hiding spot.
To his surprise, the target wasn't surprised.
"I'm not so easy to kill, you fool!"
The target kicked the attacker on his right knee. A fist in his face put him down. Another kick on his right hand and the silenced gun was floating through the air.
The target took some distance, allowing the attacker to get up again.
"You're good. Very good," the attacker said, nodding respectfully to his target.
He then quickly turned around, picked up his gun and ran away, yelling:
"But you won't be so lucky next time!"
"Next time... Next time you die..." the target said.
Night 7 Standoff:
A man was walking in the vicinity of the ancient temple of Artemis.
He saw a shadow near a pillar and quickly jumped aside, drawing his .44 Magnum.
The man in the shadows was pointing his silenced gun at his target while he was staring at the .44 Magnum.
"Stalemate," I guess, the target said, cold as ice.
"So it seems," his attacker answered.
Both put away their guns and left the scene.
Notice in both of these that the person hiding in the shadows is specifically described as "attacker" and the other person is specifically described as "target." This looks very much like the "attacker" is ambushing that "target" but the target cannot be killed due to skill or luck. This is similar to the previous game, when Sigurd (mafioso) was attacked by another mafioso and survived due to the abilities of his role. In such a situation, the attacker would know the target's identity, but not the other way around.
In reviewing this, I also noticed something that I had missed before. On Night 5, the attacker "picked up his gun and ran away." This was earlier described as a silenced pistol. In the Day 6 write-up, the old man (you) suddenly whips out a silenced gun to execute the lynch. I had previously assumed that it was obtained on Night 5 after being dropped. Now, thanks to being focused on these actions more, it seems clear it was not possible for you to have gotten the gun on N5.
So, GH, how do you explain your ability to suddenly produce a silenced pistol during the D6 lynch? Andres does not include details like this for no reason. If you obtained it through innocent means, it should be somewhere in one of the write-ups, but I cannot find it. If you did not obtain it through one of the write-ups, then it's likely that it belongs to you and you are a killer in some manner.
2) Sigurd is not Manfredo or the athletic man?
This is absurd reasoning on your part, and smacks of an attempt to discredit him. First, you claim that shlin or w&f could have been the athletic man. Yet this does not explain why the athletic man did not execute the lynch himself on D5, nor why he was so surprised by the lynching. It seems very specific to me that Sigurd was the athletic man. In addition, Sigurd hasn't exactly been very active in this game. Yet he managed to be the first person to ever mention that the athletic man was a vigilante (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2108555&postcount=529) and then managed to slip in a suggestion that the vigilante was pro-town (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2108585&postcount=537). This is not a coincidence. Sigurd was planting ideas about the vigilante role for future use, probably if he decided to reveal.
Indeed, in re-reading Sigurd's posts once again, while he did support you early on, his posts turn heavily against you as the game progressed. I omitted mentioning these to see how you would respond, and you simply accepted them as I stated them. I actually now believe that it is YOU that Sigurd wants to be lynched, not CountArach. His attack on CountArach was a one-off thing, while he kept coming back to you over and over again, with increasing frequency as the game went on.
I also did not give you a blank slate of innocence in my analysis posts, yet your happily cite and gobble up all of the 'GH is good' bits that I wrote, while completely ignoring everything scumtastic about yourself. This does not seem like the actions of a good townie to me. Combined with my revelation that you couldn't have gotten the silenced pistol on N5, my opinion of you has drastically changed.
I apologize to everyone for the 180 I'm pulling here, but GH's response, especially about Sigurd, just doesn't add up. There have been fishy things about GH from the start, and instead of being resolved and making sense, they just keep adding up and getting less consistent. Something is wrong about GH's role, and that kind of thing is never good for the town.
I heavily recommend lynching GH immediately.
GeneralHankerchief
01-21-2009, 19:37
Just a note to everybody that I am forming a defense, although it will take some time.
Okay, I'm being more open now about the possibility of GH being scum, esp. this 'gun out of nowhere' case. However, the protect/block ability is the only thing that can thwart a killer's kill order, and gives town more time and lynch chances (correct me if I'm not right here). If we are to lynch him I suggest later rather than now, especially since there's still at least 2 killers out there.
But, if we can prove that GH is coordinating his night actions w/ murders, then I'm game on lynching him right now.
edit: em attempting to look into the matter.
The main reason for my originally saying GH was probably innocent was his confirmed night abilities. He has proven that he can bring two people per night to a secret chamber and bore them to sleep. We know this and it has been confirmed. However, what we do not know is exactly what goes on when GH puts these people to sleep.
GH claims that this is a role block AND protection role. Yet there have been two attacks on people that GH was supposed to be protecting at night. The first attack completely succeeded and ATPG was killed. The second attack (Seamus) seems to have been completely unaffected by GH's actions whatsoever. Thus, GH is lying about his ability to protect people.
So, what could he be doing? One option is that he is a mafia detective. He snags two people at night, bores them to sleep, then rifles through their belongings looking for something. This type of action would be useless without the ability to kill, which GH may or may not have. However, what if GH has a partner? Or, better yet, what if GH only needs to find and kill a single person?
Let's take a look at something else in the write-ups that no one has touched on before. This is from Night 4 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2106393&postcount=428):
A shady figure strided over the sands of the theater.
He looked around him and noticed the enveloppe.
The man picked it up and read the short note inside it.
He grinned and walked away, calmly.
This is not just for color, something happened here. Someone put something in the envelope and dropped it for another person to pick up. What goes into an envelope? A letter. Letters have writing on them. Writing is information. This was an information drop. Could this be the result of GH locating a good target and then communicating the identity of that target to his partner? Is it a coincidence that the 'Mexican Standoff' attacks start the following night?
There's more as well. GH's character is obviously very concerned about what is going on with the statues. He is upset when a statue is destroyed and he leads people at night to a secret chamber. This is significant, and it seems very heavily connected to the role that was destroying the statues and which now seems to be manifesting as some kind of evil spirit who possessed Seamus last night. Yet, GH's claimed role contains NO information of any kind about any of this stuff:
The Guide
You are the guide, mentioned in the opening scene.
You have a perfect knowledge of the Ancient City of Ephesus.
Each night, you are allowed to protect two players. When you do so, you’ll hide them in the secret tunnel between the ancient library and the ancient brothel. When you protect a player, you’ll also block his/her actions for that night.
Each night, you have to pm me the names of the people you’re going to protect. Your pm has to reach me before the night ends.
Assination attempts on you might fail under certain circumstances.
Good luck!
This seems wrong. The way his role is written, he should have some major part in this supernatural skullduggery that is going on, yet the role PM he produced has nothing whatsoever. Look at this game, look at the setting, look at the write-ups. There is essentially no likelihood whatsoever that there are any plain old vanilla roles here, yet GH is claiming a role that simply blocks and protects. Not only does this not fit into the game as it is written, he can't even protect well, as conclusively shown by ATPG's death. It seems very likely that GH has heavily modified his own role PM and is faking what he is doing.
Indeed, I now doubt GH's claim that he can even block people. I bet he does nothing of the sort. I bet GH added that so that he could 'block' his mafioso partner and clear them of any wrongdoing. I think that if we look at who GH has 'blocked' we will find his partner.
This is who he has 'blocked':
Night 1: Sigurd (lynched) and Quintus (killed)
Night 2: Reenk (killed) and Tevash (lynched)
Night 3: Seamus and shlin (killed).
Night 4: ATPG (killed) and boudica.
Night 5: Sigurd (lynched) and boudica.
Night 6: YLC and Beefy.
Night 7: Seamus and glyphz.
So, of all those 'blocked', only Seamus, boudica, YLC, Beefy, and glyphz are still alive. Of these, only two, Seamus and boudica, have been 'blocked' twice. Interesting, especially given the most recent GH/Seamus evidence they so kindly provided.
The Night 7 results are posted at 16:51 EST. At 16:52 (one minute later) GH posts his 'success' claim (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2112519&postcount=671), but it take him until 16:56 (four full minutes later) to post the results PM. GH's "Score!" post indicates that he 'knows' the protection worked. However, the write-up description reads like Seamus wasn't protected at all. So, if GH knew a protection worked, he read it in a results PM. So, he had this PM and was able to read it and celebrate about it within ONE MINUTE of the night results being posted, but it then took him another FOUR MINUTES to copy and paste the results PM? No way, those four minutes was him fabricating a results PM or double-checking a previous forgery for errors.
Seamus then conveniently busts out with this gem (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2112535&postcount=672) saying that GH told him he was going to be protected THREE MINUTES before Andres posted they night results. Why in the world would GH ever disclose this information? First, GH could never know the exact moment when Andres would precisely post the night results, so there is no way he could have properly timed this thing to get there before it was too late for Seamus to change his own night orders. Second, there's no reason whatsoever to inform Seamus beforehand. The only reason to do so would be to prove to Seamus that he's the person who's doing the protecting/blocking, but that's the one thing that absolutely everyone in this game has already accepted! The thing that was in doubt was whether GH's actions were effective, not whether he could do them, and GH didn't need to disclose his night actions to someone beforehand to prove their effectiveness. GH is extremely smart. He would not have disclosed this info to Seamus unless it was crucial for his survival, and in this case it was not.
GH is some kind of mafioso and Seamus is his partner. Lynch them both.
GeneralHankerchief
01-21-2009, 20:22
Yeah, I'll get to this latest bit in my defense as well.
Apologies for hammering you like this in multiple posts. I know it's hard to respond to and irksome. It's the result of stream-of-consciousness posting which I've been doing for the last 24 hours. I will try and reign myself in and provide all my arguments in a single post in the future. Again, sorry for the hassle caused by my posting format.
GeneralHankerchief
01-21-2009, 20:53
On Sigurd:
First of all, let me just say that in my analysis, I did not reread Sigurd's posts. I mainly focused on Andres's writeups and the the possible connections focused on each of them. However, since your attack on me is pretty much focused off of Sigurd's reasoning, I went back and looked at all of his posts.
Let's go into this keeping in mind that you have two beliefs: That Sigurd is a pro-town power role, and that he has been pointing to me for a while now. My beliefs regarding Sigurd are that he's either a plain townie or a villain; I'm not sure of which.
Sorry about the late participation gents and lady,
Due to org database failure I was not able to participate yesterday.
Having a quick look at the game development, I must say that Askthepizzaguy, Tincow and the Reinkmaster is deliberately wanting attention.
I don't know what to make of it yet.
One thing I am sure of is when the Reinkmaster says he has a role, he usually does.
He has pointed to Tevashzat and accused him of being Mafioso. I can't see that Tevash has countered this allegation.
I also notice that Yoyoma is deliberately acting a tourist and needs to be checked out by any investigator in the game. Same with White_eyes?
I am not a follower of paranoia and getting rid of players based on previous games. Getting TinCow for his previous actions in the first round is just mean. True, he has put himself in the spotlight with his opening remarks, but Reeink claims a powerful role and names Tevashzat as a Mafioso.
Why not act on this? This would be the logic thing in a first round
(BTW.. why not show support for your own allegations Reeink?).
vote:Tevashzat
Summary: Sigurd's first post after the game has started. He notes his absence, and then diving into the Reenk/Tevash argument, takes Reenk's side and votes Tevash.
Context: As Sigurd focused his argument on two people who have not been alive for a long time, this post means little to our current discussion.
I am still interested by what the Reenkster has up his sleeve.
He talks about primary and secondary objectives and that he has completed his secondary objective.
He also claims that he was blocked in a round with no kills ... Does that mean he killed on night 1?
Looking at the writeups it could seem that Ares was killed by Günner and Fehrad depending on how much influence the killers have on their orders.
Why did they dig up the corpse after killing him in the first round?
Maybe Reeink Roink needs to get Tevashzat lynhced to reach a objective?
If that is the case I am game. Anythingto foil the plans of the mafia.
vote:Tevashzat
Summary: Two days later, he pops into the thread again. He makes a comment on the writeups, and then votes Tevash again.
Context: Slightly more important than the first post because he talked about the writeups. However, he mentions nothing about an athletic man, vigilante, etc. If you side with TinCow, it could mean that he's just trying to make heads and tails of things in the thread. If you side with me, it could mean that he's just doing his job as a townie and pointing things out/using it to serve as confusion.
:laugh4:
Yeah I am definitely here... while working mind you (need to read most of the posts in here, which might be beneficial later in the game).
Your case against the General seems to be spot on. I am eager to hear his reply. I have also noticed that he no longer complains about not being picked as mafioso like he did in Midgard II. I am thinking that he finally received one in one of the games he plays.
He did say in the other game (Golden rule) that he will take a look at Ephesus later today. He usually throws a romp if we group our votes against him and if he is mafia.
It is however a bit early in the game IMO for any lengthy analysis.
Personally I would vote off YLC for even implying to have the life of RR in his hands. But let's try yours and TinCow's theory first. GH it is.
vote:GeneralHankiechief
Summary: Two more days later, after ATPG has just posted his long case against me, before I've had a chance to respond/reveal. His reasoning has already been discussed at length.
Context: Okay TC, you said that Sigurd was pointing at CA and then said he moved on to me. Now, while I write this I haven't looked at his later posts yet, but so far this doesn't seem to be the truth. Also of note, he flat-out says that YLC should be lynched. This goes well with my theory - don't forget about this when, in the future, you base your vote off what Sigurd said about him suggesting we vote people who he's accused in the past.
Woah ...
Sorry about not participating at a crucial point in the game yesterday.
Good to see others making sure that GH was not lynched. I too got an obscure PM from Andres on the first night about listening to a boring old man.
I didn't know what to make of it, but now I know.
Summary: He apologizes for not being online to unvote me and confirms my role.
Context: Not much. In this post he definitely believes in me.
I had to quickly read over the thread again to freshen up on things.
The night reports from Andres were particularly interesting (hard to find without a separate thread or links in the OP). :smash:
Night one #102
Night two #259
Night three #317
Night four #428
On the first night there was only one kill by a silenced gun. There is also something about a hysterical man and blades.
Second night has no kills, but yet again the hysterical man whet stoning a sword which is incidentally dropped and later picked up by the athletic man. Also, he seems to talk to someone or is schizophrenic. Two men digging up the graves of the dead looking for something and lose a gun which is later picked up by the athletic man.
Third night had three kills. Hysterical man destroys the statue of Atemis.
The shadow kills RR accusing him of seeking a package.
Two kills by men with silenced guns.
Fourth night had one kill. No mention of the hysterical man. A new character (shady figure) finds an envelope. Two dark figures dig up the graves of the dead.
The shadow kills pizzaguy implying some shady business going on.
My initial thought after reading the night reports is that we are possibly dealing with several active night roles. I have coloured them based on alignment. Neutral (green) until we can determine if they are good or bad for town.
Night one:
1 gun killer
1 crazy guy.
Night two
2 guys (digging up bodies)
1 crazy guy
1 companion of crazy guy
Night three
1 crazy guy
1 shadow killer
2 gun killers
Night four
1 shady guy
1 shadow killer
2 guys (digging up bodies)
All in all 8 characters.
I suspect however that the two gun killers and the grave diggers are the same. They are taking every other night off to dig up the bodies they shot the night before. They are obviously looking for something inside the bodies and need to kill them in order to be able to check them.
This brings us down to 6 characters.
We know that GH is the old guy and that the athletic guy has a sword and a gun. Could it be that the athletic guy is the shadow killer?
The total should then be around 7 characters.
Crazy guy and apprentice = Bernard and Juliette
2 guys with guns and showels = Günner and Fehrad
Shadow killer = Manfredo
Shady guy = secret role…
Old blocker guy (GH)
We also suspect that RR, Tevash and pizzaguy possibly had roles. But there were 2 diggers on night 4 which according to my theory counts for both Günner and Fehrad being alive.
It could also mean that even if we did kill/lynch bad guys, the bad guys are recruiting.
Could it be that YLC is the shadow killer?
My vote this round goes to CountArach. He was quite active in the first part of this game, but has since dropped off the planet. He mentioned a hectic week at work, but his initial analysis makes me suspect he is in the informed minority. He called Bernard a Godfather type. I can’t see where he would get that idea.
Vote: CountArach.
Summary: Here we go, Sigurd's main analysis post. I'll admit I haven't seen this for a while. Again, he tries to make sense of the writeups. I can't really fault him for this, as it's what most of us have been doing now in the later rounds. If you believe TC, Sigurd could be hinting toward his role here.
Context: If Sigurd is Manfredo/vigilante/shadow killer, would he make such a blatant suggestion saying as much? Here he votes CA with an out-of-the-blue reasoning after a lengthy analysis that seemed to be going elsewhere. I would ask how he would know CA's role if he was the Vig, but since you, TC, now think he was going after me, how would he know my alignment if he was the Vig? It's my opinion that he either didn't find anything concrete to go with in the analysis and voted based off thread behavior, or that he was again trying to fool us.
I hope there are more than two play styles to my name. I try to act a little differently in every game I am in. However, as you point out, my post count is low. I am in more than one game this time. One reason is trying to be the responsible AM. Ya know, to give support to the games and their hosts. This is a new experience for me and I find it is stretching my capability.
I suspected you had a role in this game as did pizzaguy and hewas right. A GH without a role usually makes more noise. I would have unvoted you had I been on.
I might be a candidate, but you and the rest of us needs to compare what we know to what we learn trough the night reports.
You protected me and Quintus on the first night and me and boudica this night.
On the first night there was only one kill, most likely by one of the mafia. Compared to the other nights we lack two killers; the shadow vigilante and the other mafioso.
This night lacked only the shadow vigilante. There was the murder of Quintus, which would put the suspicion on me for being the other mafia that were blocked on night one.
This last night had two attempts with guns. I suspect that YLC is the vigilante aka the athletic man and that he possibly was attacked this night by the second mafioso. YLC's night action was canceled as he dodged the killer. You mentioned something about a report from Andres and that it said nothing of value. Do you suspect it will say something important if you in fact do investigate a killer?
I will not retaliate against you since your role is by far more valuable for the town than my vanilla townie role. I can do my analysis dead as alive. Being killed by mafia is the best option since I will be more or less confirmed innocent.
I do however question the decision of not even trying to take you out as you are a threat to any bad guy in this game. Are you communicating with players outside this game? Do you discuss with others your choice of blocks? Have you learned that attempts have been made on the players you protect?
We need to figure out if the athletic man/shadow killer, which I think is YLC, is bad for town. Up until now he has killed twice. Does he investigate on the nights he is not killing? that would count for night one and two and five.
I firmly believe that the two gun killers are very much alive as can be seen in last night's report.
Glyphz has a point. Seireikhaan is not active at all in this game and he was inactive, I think, before he started his game.
I get the feeling he is intentionally keeping a low profile. Is he hiding a pro-town role or a mafia role?
vote: seireikhaan
Summary: Sigurd's main defense to my attack. Parts of this have also been discussed at length. Again, he points to trying to figure things out through the night reports. Pretty consistent behavior.
Context: I pointed this out in my initial analysis post but you didn't mention it in your follow-up, TC. He specifically reiterated that he was a townie, and that he believed me. These two beliefs and his actions don't add up if he's a power pro-town role. Finally, once again, he points to YLC but votes elsewhere.
Yet, you made a veiled threat to Reeink Roink about an ability to end his life via vote or some night ability. Was this just a bluff?
Summary: YLC responds to Sigurd's grilling of him and says he's just a townie. Sigurd grills him some more.
Context: As my high school gym teacher used to say, "thimk".
Care to explain? Is this an ability you have in this game, or am I just not able to interpret what you mean. Drilling someone during the night ... ehm, I get a disturbing picture here - :wiseguy:
Summary: More grilling. For the record, the post that prompted this one is here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2108572&postcount=532).
Context: Duh.
Sorry it was not common to me...
But my question remains unanswered; is the vigilante bad for town?
It seems he got rid of some shady players (no offense RR and Pizza). That Pizza has opted to drop out of the discussion should be some basis to indicate a pro-town alignment for the vigilante. RR will continue to seed doubts and smokescreens if he was a bad guy and would continue to be helpful if he was pro town.
Summary: Sigurd's final salvo in the YLC thing. Here, he suggests that the Vig might not be bad for the town.
Context: You score a point here. But it could also just be Sigurd being a good townie and thinking out loud.
I have checked the game in question. I must admit I didn't remember it when I made my comments. I stand corrected. I made an erroneous evaluation of your track record.
Yes I agreed with pizzaguy, thinking Andres would have favourized you as mafioso. It had been suficient time since your last comments of not being a mafioso. My brain told me that Andres could have given you a sinister role.
Still... I would hold on to my claim that I can't be mafia. The mafia hits were all in the night report. And no block of a killer were mentioned there. You are lynching an innocent with three votes. I am more suspicious of seireikhann now that he has opted to abstain as if waiting to cast the final vote on me should he tie.
[edit]: Wait.. am I in the wrong about the tally? I have not kept one this round.
Summary: Sigurd continues to defend himself against me. Again, discussed at length - I didn't buy that he just forgot about Spirit Mafia.
Context: Looking at the writeups now, I'm probably leaning towards Sigurd more being a plain townie than a mafioso. BUT. He still hasn't turned against me as TC claims.
***Sigurd's next post is a tally. There is nothing of consequence.***
You are not exactly in danger of being lynched just yet. But I am and would welcome any theories you might have. Why do you suspect Yoyoma is mafia?
Summary: The very next post after his tally, Sigurd starts questioning IK and gives him a chance to explain himself.
Context: This could be another potential person on the watch list that we're looking for. Again, he's still not turning on me.
I am never lucky with dice...
But you are wrong. You should know better. The mafia can opt for not killing and make false clues such as this to slip under the radar. You have used it yourself in other games.
Besides Quintus is already dead.
GH said so himself... He was waiting for the feedback PM before making the vote. When it did not reveal anything he voted me based on gut feeling.
Seireikhaan is probably innocent. Should he survive I would let him live. Nobody plays that balsy if they are mafia.
Summary: This was back when you believed me innocent, saying that we should focus on Quintus, boudica, and Sigurd. Sigurd's defense was that the mafia could intentionally mess with writeups and that you should know better.
Context: I suppose a case could be made that this post signals he's starting to doubt me, but I find it more likely that he's just trying not to get lynched. Plus, he still never said anything against me.
Yet no failed attempts were narrated as promised. Either a) GH has not blocked a mafia at all or b) He blocked the mafia on the day the mafia chose to not kill.
But the mafia has not got rid of the blocker yet and they had the chance last night. Why? I suspect something fishy.
Summary: Sigurd points out my failues (addressed in my previous analysis post) and says something's fishy.
Context: Perhaps he could be doubting me here. But the reason for my continued survival has already been discussed. In addition, he's still said nothing against me.
Ok... if this is true, then I must be the shadow killer as this was the only missing role on both nights.
There was a confirmed kill and a foiled kill where two power roles were involved. Yet none of you compared this to the blocking results... Fishy I tell you.
Summary: I clear things up as to what happens when I block people, Sigurd responds.
Context: Your usual attack, my usual defense. "Fishy" could mean anything.
:bow:
edit.. I am dead and can't reveal.
Summary: I didn't see what was originally here. Apparently, you did, and said that he suggested lynching those he previously already accused.
Context: See next post.
I guess this needs an answer.
According to Andres I did no wrong. I believed however that I was breaking the sportsmanship rule.
For clarification:
Summary: (note: a lot of quoted material is missing from this post). Sigurd clarifies what was going on.
Context: I believe that Sigurd edited it out for the reasons he stated in the PM. Not because of a secret role or anything.
CONCLUSION: I believe Sigurd to be nothing more than a townie who is suggesting that we lynch YLC. Another point I brought up in my previous analysis that you didn't address is Andres hinting that the athletic man's time as lynch leader was nearing an end before Sigurd was lynched.
On the gun thing:
I know this is a frustratingly bad defense, but the truth is "I don't know." I don't know how I got the gun. Everything I have ever said in this entire thread is the pure truth. And the truth is, I know as little as you guys do. All I do at night is send in my choices, forward them to Seamus (more on this later), and get my response PMs from Andres, which I copy word-for-word for you guys.
I don't know, but I do have a suggestion, which I've already repeated: It's possible that I now hold the gun simply because I'm now in charge of the lynches. This is the only thing I can think of.
Everything I have learned in this game, I have divulged to all of you. I'm not hiding any secret information whatsoever. I do not have any sinister motives. I do not have any goals that conflict in any way with any of the town's. I don't know anything about the statues. I don't know anything about the envelope. I don't know anything about the gun. I don't know anything about the architectual or Biblical references. All I know is who I protect and how successful I am at it. Believe what you want, but this is the honest truth.
On Seamus and timings:
First of all, this defense is going to be a *#%! of a lot better than the last one. However, as per the above, I don't know about Seamus's dream. I can only assume that it meant he was protected since I did protect him that night.
I have been informing Seamus (and only Seamus) of my choices for a couple of nights now, after I blocked him and there were still three kills. I did this as a backup plan; in case I was killed, he would still be able to pass on my final choice of blocks to you all. I realize now, with it being evident that the mafia have no plans to kill me whatsoever, that this is a waste but I'm still doing it in the off chance that I do die.
I generally send in my orders very early on in the night phase, as Andres ends the day at a convenient time for me. HOWEVER. I do not inform Seamus of my choices until much later on in the phase, in the extremely remote chance that he is mafia. If this is the case, then he and his team would still have very little time to react and change things up.
Also, this is kind of random but I didn't know anywhere else to fit this, but another reason I had an insurance policy was if I died and Seamus said nothing in the thread, then I knew he was mafia.
As for the timings of the N7 writeups, I saw that Andres had posted in the thread and quickly skimmed it. I saw Seamus's name in bold, and excited (because this was the first time I was really sure I was going to thwart a hit, as I've already discussed), scrolled down to the "Still alive" list where his name was there. I put two and two together, not reading into the specifics until later.
I was out all day yesterday until late afternoon because of the inauguration. When I got back, I made it a priority to get on the .Org and PM Seamus with my protections because, while I had already sent in my orders, I didn't let Seamus know. It wasn't an elaborate, intricately-timed plan on my part. It was simply me getting online in the nick of time.
I think that's everything. I'd like to re-iterate that everything I've ever said in this thread has been nothing but the truth, and I have only the town's best interests at heart. If you follow the path that TinCow has suggested and lynch me and Seamus, I can guarantee you that the town will lose this game. Badly.
Because of RL, I will end this round in about 1 hour.
CountArach
01-21-2009, 21:40
Vote: YLC
I honestly don't remember ever seeing those PMs before in this thread (Have you posted them prior to this GH?). Personally I believe they are completely legitimate and real proof that YLC does not have the best interests of the town at heart.
I still don't buy the whole Role-blocker is mafia stuff.
Wow, I am amazed TC, that is quite the case you have there, very thorough. I will put in the idea however, that GH is still capable of roleblocking, if not investigating as well. A mafia Roleblocker, to me makes more sense then a town roleblocker. Why? Because the mafia roleblocker is more informed, and is able to make their decisions with more accuracy, limiting the impact on their own teammates while maximizing their impact upon the town.
I will say this however, TC, that if GH is not our man, then CountArach dies next.
Unvote:CountArach
Vote:GeneralHankerchief
GeneralHankerchief
01-21-2009, 21:42
No, I've kept them private until now. I said a while back that someone gave a suggestion and that I was noncommittal, but didn't say YLC's name.
Vote: YLC
I honestly don't remember ever seeing those PMs before in this thread (Have you posted them prior to this GH?). Personally I believe they are completely legitimate and real proof that YLC does not have the best interests of the town at heart.
I still don't buy the whole Role-blocker is mafia stuff.
Really now? At what point did I not have the towns "best interests" at heart? And you suddenly jump on me right along with GH? Oh, how convenient, An easy 2 vote lynch. Nonetheless, my vote stays on GH.
CountArach
01-21-2009, 21:51
Really now? At what point did I not have the towns "best interests" at heart? And you suddenly jump on me right along with GH? Oh, how convenient, An easy 2 vote lynch. Nonetheless, my vote stays on GH.
Errr.... no...
If I wanted the easy lynch I would have voted for GH, who is well ahead of you in votes. I genuinely believe that trying to guide the blocker is scummy - you could be trying to guide them away from yourself and a scumbuddy.
Errr.... no...
If I wanted the easy lynch I would have voted for GH, who is well ahead of you in votes. I genuinely believe that trying to guide the blocker is scummy - you could be trying to guide them away from yourself and a scumbuddy.
:laugh4:
Sorry, I am being lazy today, and I am also trying to do a write-up for my mafia game, so I will conceded that GH has (more?) votes then me. Vote for me then, I can then pay less attention to this game until Andres finalizes the write up - I have tons of other things (Mafia game hosting, LotR, Diplomacy, Writing, College, Combat Arms, etc.) to occupy me, and is the main reason I have not been very busy in the thread.
GeneralHankerchief
01-21-2009, 21:57
Despite all the attacks I've undergone this round, I think YLC is the only one who's lodged a vote against me, funnily enough. :laugh4:
Despite all the attacks I've undergone this round, I think YLC is the only one who's lodged a vote against me, funnily enough. :laugh4:
Yeah, that's my fault for not thinking the game through enough and for making a U-turn on you. There just wasn't enough time left in this day phase for everyone to get back on and read my absurdly long posts. However, I'd be preparing for a lot of heat tomorrow if I were you. :laugh4:
Voting concluded.
Stand by for execution.
The Scourge of Ephesus - Day 7 - Conclusion
https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Org/Efese-Prytaneion.jpg
Ephesus - The Prytaneion - 8.00 pm
The tourists started to discuss.
Some voices could be heard whispering in the air: “Do not lynch him, I strongly urge you to lynch that other guy, nonono, disregard that, lynch the guy I said you absolutely should not lynch at first…”
The tourists concerned started to yell against each other and, strangely enough, against the wind.
The other tourists seemed to pick up the sounds and started to point their finger at those named by the voices. The tourists named by the odd metallic and boo-ing voice started to sweat and they defended themselves against the accusations vigorously.
All of the sudden, Caius jumped up and he pushed aside a few tourists. He gave the old man a kick and grabbed his gun.
“I can’t take this any longer!” Caius yelled. “The horror, the killings, those sounds, the lynchings, the strange accidents. I want to get out of here!”
Caius put the gun in his mouth and fired a shot. He died instantly.
“Ok, ok, enough of this already,” an aggressive tourist said and he grabbed the gun out of Caius’ hands.
“You there,” he said, pointing the gun at CountArach. "It seems like you have the most votes."
CountArach looked very pale and his voice trembled when he said: “So it seems indeed.”
“Any last wish?” the aggressive tourist said.
“Well, I really love that local liquor they have here,” Rakı”. And I would also love to hear that popular Turkish singer one more time. What’s his name… Tarkan!”
“You really like that rubbish song?”
CountArach shrugged.
“Oh well then,” the aggressive tourist said and he took his mp3-player and gave it to CountArach.
Another tourist gave him a bottle of Rakı.
CountArach took the bottle, drank from it and pushed the play button of the mp3 player.
At the tones of Tarkan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRsyyBFcHYQ) he continued emptying the bottle of Rakı.
He hardly noticed how the aggressive tourist pointed the gun at him and ended his life with a single bullet in the back of his head.
The shooter put away the gun and turned to the gathered tourists.
“Time to go to sleep.”
The old man added: “I hope this nightmare will be over now…”
“Shut up, you fool!”
The tourists walked away.
Night fell over Ephesus. Again…
***
Tally:
CountArach : 3 (Ibn-Khaldun, Lord Winter, glyphz) :skull:
YLC: 2 (GeneralHankerchief, CountArach)
Yoyoma1910 : 1 (187Beefyz)
Ibn-Khaldun : 1 (Chaotix27)
Abstain: 2 (Yoyoma, Seamus)
Not voting: 3 (boudica, CountArach, Caius)
***
Alive (10)
boudica
GeneralHankerchief
187Beefyz
Chaotix27
YLC
Yoyoma1910
Ibn-Khaldun
Lord Winter
Glyphz
Seamus Fermanagh
Killed (9) :
777Ares777
TheFlax
White_Eyes :D
Reenk Roink
Askthepizzaguy
Quintus.JC
woad&fangs
shlin28
El Diablo
Lynched (7) :
TinCow
Tevashzat
FactionHeir
Jolt
Sigurd
seireikhaan
CountArach
WoG/Suicide (4):
Rythmic
Ignoramus
Tiberius of the Drake
Caius
It's now night. Night will last for +/- 23 hours.
GeneralHankerchief
01-21-2009, 22:23
Well, the aggressive tourist directing the lynch does help out my theory of shifting lynch directors that have nothing to do with death.
CountArach
01-22-2009, 01:35
Nice job bandwagoning a townie...
Reenk Roink
01-22-2009, 01:49
Well, the aggressive tourist directing the lynch does help out my theory of shifting lynch directors that have nothing to do with death.
Will you please die?
Honestly, if I was still alive, I would have investigated GH by now, and even if he was innocent (unlikely) I would have killed him because of Reenkness 201...
GeneralHankerchief
01-22-2009, 01:50
Will you please die?
No.
Beefy187
01-22-2009, 02:04
No.
Best come back ever :laugh4:
White_eyes:D
01-22-2009, 02:06
Will you please die?
Honestly, if I was still alive, I would have investigated GH by now, and even if he was innocent (unlikely) I would have killed him because of Reenkness 201...
No, way is GH innocent he had too much time to role-block everyone and not come up with something......Town is eating out of his hand....:no:
GeneralHankerchief
01-22-2009, 02:44
No, way is GH innocent he had too much time to role-block everyone and not come up with something......Town is eating out of his hand....:no:
Oh yeah, every single round I fight off the vultures and barely survive a lynch, of course they're eating out of my hand.
And I already explained, there are too many variations on nighttime activities for anyone to conclusively know how successful I've been.
And I already explained, there are too many variations on nighttime activities for anyone to conclusively know how successful I've been.
Really? Your total inability to do anything to keep ATPG alive seems pretty conclusive to me. Or are you still choosing to ignore that little flaw in your story?
GeneralHankerchief
01-22-2009, 05:15
Dude, I'm as clueless as you.
Seamus Fermanagh
01-22-2009, 05:44
Tincow:
GH began pm'ing me with the names of those receiving his attentions on a given night at the time he indicates. His stated reason was to have me able (providing I was not myself killed) to share those names with the town should he be killed. GH claimed to have posted the same PM to Andres as to me so that Andres would be aware it was legit for me to refer to it. The names were always provided to me in advance of Andres posting.
I am still at a loss to explain the beast image at my near-killing or the link to John the Divine. The only link between a beast and St. John is the Apocalypto (Revelations)....and I'm not sure where to take that one.
I cannot confirm GH's intent in sending me the PM info, only the intention he stated to me.
Here is the text of Andres' PM to me following N7.
Ephesus - N 7
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You were wandering around the temple of Artemis.
Something appeared and scared the out of you.
"What was that?" you wonder. "It didn't seem... human..."
Be afraid, tourist, be very afraid...
***
An old man calms you down and takes you with him. He wants to show you something, he says.
He takes you to a secret hiding place and starts talking to you. He tells you several stories. They are boring and you fall asleep.
Andres.
In retrospect, the *** DOES imply that GH's taking me to a hiding place did NOT protect me from the supernatural event.
I'm still at a loss to explain all of this.
Askthepizzaguy
01-22-2009, 09:39
Really? Your total inability to do anything to keep ATPG alive seems pretty conclusive to me. Or are you still choosing to ignore that little flaw in your story?
For the love of Andres, it's time to put a stop to GeneralHankerchief.
I have done a serious analysis of the game. People, I KNOW you just endured a whole lot of analysis. Please be patient and listen to mine, I beg of thee.
In spoilers for neatness.
My mafia game analysis system has revealed the following players are suspect:
GeneralHankerchief: Suspect Number One
Scummy behavior: Asks to ignore Reenk Roink, Veiled threat against me post 383, supposed defense of me failed, still alive, excessive post edits post 600, post 616 stalling, 626 scummy post, says he's not a townie, claims he is town's greatest asset (651), claims he is the victim of a conspiracy, questions Askthepizzaguy's methods (I know I am townie, and he's far too dismissive of me anyway), Doom and Gloom posts, highly defensive, lots of non-useful posts, excuses, point-by-point rebuttals.
He's failed to block the mafia out of how many attempts???? He's had his chance, he's failed us, he's mislead us, and he should have been dead a LONG TIME AGO!!!!
Chaotix: Suspect Number Two
Scummy behavior: He's been one of the deciding votes in small, bad lynches, asked people to ignore me, he's been hypocritical, he's bandwagonned, he votes for veteran players with weak reasoning, gives lots of excuses for not being a better player, votes with no reasons behind it often.
I have played with him in the past. This is a bad performance in comparison to previous. He's done nothing helpful, and plenty to hurt us. He's given the worst performance I've ever seen, and he meets the criteria of my mafia scum behavior pattern (50 search parameters, with 10 parameters WAY above baseline, and NO EXAMPLES of really useful townie behavior.
LYNCH HIM.
Boudica: Suspect Number Three
She never followed through with any in-depth look at the thread, WHICH SHE PROMISED. she has contributed nothing positive and has been responsible for close executions. She is hypocritical, doom and gloomy, bandwagonny, Lurking, Lurking, Lurking, and only shows up to post when someone accuses her!!!
She is no one that town needs alive anymore. She can't hit the broad side of a barn when lynching mafia, and she's done nothing positive at all. GH defended her. She is anti-seireikhaan and anti-Jolt, and constantly gives excuses for not contributing more.
She is a top suspect, along with her crony GH.
187Beefyz: Suspect Number Four:
Beefy187 gives too many excuse posts instead of contributing positively, he voted me twice for no reason at the beginning of the game after I've demonstrated superior townie abilities, he's overly defensive, overuse of smileys, he lurks, he has several questionable posts "hard to post in this game" 599 Apologetic 454. Defends YLC with weak reasoning, blindly trusts GH! Calls for Kommodus-like player to come save town.
Well Kommodus is back, and he's come for your head, Beefy. A bad performance given your previous games. You're hardly ever mafia, and in this case, you're an abysmal townie at best.
Beefy can redeem himself in my eyes by working with the better townies to kill the suspects above him. Otherwise, I deem him useless (in this game. nothing personal Beefy. Nothing personal ANYONE. I loves you all!)
Borderline:
YLC: Borderline. He has both pro-town and anti-town results in the analysis, but it's far too weighted to the mafia side. I don't trust him, and I doubt he will work with us to get the top suspects.
Yoyoma: Lurker, borderline.
Questionable but ok:
Ibn: Possible Townie, voting and not being manipulative.
Glyphz: Townie behavior: Asks reasonable questions Anti-YLC. good analysis, pays attention, good humor. Pro-Pizza post 366. Constant tallys. Woad thinks innocent.
Analysis: Probably town. Only responsible for one townie's death.
I haven't gone in depth, I only gave you the results. I wish to keep the LENGTHY reasons why each person is scummy, borderline, and townie to myself. believe or disbelieve, it's your choice.
TinCow is right, GH needs to die.
The above analysis is pre-"recent deaths" and may be amended shortly. EDIT: Checked, and confirmed townies only were lynched. System is working so far...
GH, Chaotix, Boudica, Beefy: If you truly are townie, and want to prove it to me, don't vote anymore except for the other three.
Askthepizzaguy
01-22-2009, 09:42
Dude, I'm as clueless as you.
From your votes which failed to nab the baddies, from your misleading analyses so far, from your failure to block the mafia properly after all this time, from the fact that you're still alive, I'd say that you are correct. Had you nailed one mafia so far, I might be able to believe you. If your hands were clean, I might. If you agreed with anything I've said so far... If, if, if.
I wish death upon you in this game. Join me in the netherworld, my friend.
:skull:
Also, I really, really hope Andres does a commentary for this game.
Eh, hm, huh... :stupido3:
Like the one I did for Taormina?
Lazy Andres!
:creep: :whip:
Beefy187
01-22-2009, 10:53
I love you too ATPG.. No matter how cruel you are :yes:
-Not enough contribution
Well I tried. And this is my best..
-Voting for you twice in the beginning
First one was a random vote. One for you being in the middle of the sign up list and two because I prefer kebabs over Pizza. Second one was a resting vote until I find a better option. But I couldn't make it to change the vote because of the different time zone.
-Calls for Kommodus
I didn't call for him. I just said I miss him. Player leaving the gameroom is not a pleasant thing. Thus why I was happy for Gaius and takas return along with other vets.
-Over use of smilies
:sweatdrop: Its how I post. I don't see how that leads to mafia activities
-Lurks
My activity is yes.. rather low. But I still posted everyday. I normally only post on the morning (GMT+9) checks the gameroom. Front room. Backroom. Diplomacy. EB forum. Gameroom again. Facebook. Gameroom. Sports news. Gameroom. Study then EB. EB normally gets me to lunch. Afternoon I usually go biking for fitness, studies again, then finally gets back to gameroom. Then dinner. Then TV. If the TV is boring then gameroom.
I don't lurk. I just don't check the gameroom often after the morning sesh
-Overly defensive
Am I? I thought I got rid of that..
-Blindly trusts GH
I did get a pm on the night when GH claimed to have protected me or whatever he does. Old man telling boring story. Then I fell or sleep. That night all three kills were on I believe. Which clears me. And I cannot see how Roleblocker can also be a mafia. I've never seen such thing in other mafias before. With only couple more lynching oppotunities available, I think leaving GH gives us the best chance.
-Being a crappy townie and all
Cannot agree more. While I was thankful for the nomination in the best gameroom player, I really don't think I deserve it.
.................................................................................................... ..................................................
Now that I got that done. I have to disagree with most of the things you said.
Firstly TinCow was lynched. While he makes a plausible theories, he might be mafia. He might be manipulating us.
Secondly, I havn't read all the posting before CAs lynch because I was doing other stuff. But from what I recall, three players bandwagoned CA without much reasoning. One of them is Ibn-khaldun. Yes he havn't dominated discussions. But he followed a easy bandwagon. For me that is much more scummy.
I tried. And I voted Yoyoma. Yes it was a crap theory. Yes I shouldn't have played migration campaign to Messalia and get bored and started another KH campaign, spamming Spartans before the lynch write ups. And if this is overly defensive for you, just lynch me. I have failed the town and for that, I deserve death.
EDIT: And there is no way I am helping to lynch GH or boudica.
Ibn-Khaldun
01-22-2009, 11:04
One of them is Ibn-khaldun. Yes he havn't dominated discussions. But he followed a easy bandwagon. For me that is much more scummy.
No, that's not scummy. I followed TC's long analysis and it seemed that CA is guilty. And bandwagoning part? It's how townies behave. I think you watch movies. In movies it takes only one person to create an angry mob to kill someone. That's how people work. Give them a good reason(or not that good, it doesn't matter) and they will lynch someone. ~:)
Beefy187
01-22-2009, 11:06
No, that's not scummy. I followed TC's long analysis and it seemed that CA is guilty. And bandwagoning part? It's how townies behave. I think you watch movies. In movies it takes only one person to create an angry mob to kill someone. That's how people work. Give them a good reason(or not that good, it doesn't matter) and they will lynch someone. ~:)
Shush you.. I needed something to counter him :laugh4:
Ill go read what actually happened now.
Askthepizzaguy
01-22-2009, 11:11
Beefy, I am not 100% on you. That's why you're 4th on the list.
If you redeem yourself by helping the living townies get the ones above you on the list, I think we can risk it. You deserve a win as mafia anyways, right? LOL
Depending on how the chips fall, we may have to lynch you anyway. But I would encourage you to follow my advice, no matter how "cruel" I've been. You know I have great respect for you, but if you ever were mafia, your behavior this game would exemplify it, from what I know of you.
Convince me otherwise. Help town get the REAL scumbags.
EDIT: AND YOURE NOT A CRAPPY TOWNIE. This game's performance was spotty at best, but you do well elsewhere.
Askthepizzaguy
01-22-2009, 11:15
EDIT: And there is no way I am helping to lynch GH or boudica.
Never going after GH or Boudica???
EXPLAIN WHY PLEASE. Defending these two after their (forgive me) bad performance... what do you know, and can you prove it?
If you don't give reasons, I will be sure you're mafia.
Beefy187
01-22-2009, 11:15
Beefy, I am not 100% on you. That's why you're 4th on the list.
If you redeem yourself by helping the living townies get the ones above you on the list, I think we can risk it. You deserve a win as mafia anyways, right? LOL
Depending on how the chips fall, we may have to lynch you anyway. But I would encourage you to follow my advice, no matter how "cruel" I've been. You know I have great respect for you, but if you ever were mafia, your behavior this game would exemplify it, from what I know of you.
Convince me otherwise. Help town get the REAL scumbags.
EDIT: AND YOURE NOT A CRAPPY TOWNIE. This game's performance was spotty at best, but you do well elsewhere.
Well.. I have my letter of will written way back in night 4 so I'm ready to go. For the sake of the town, I really really hope I get killed rather then lynch.
Askthepizzaguy
01-22-2009, 11:16
You won't be killed, you're a suspect. Thats why your vote counts so much.
You need to explain why you're pro-GH and pro-boudica. Without reasons, it's scummy defense of scummy people.
Beefy187
01-22-2009, 11:22
GH because I just can't see how role blocker can be a mafia. If GH is the old man, who loves the island then yes I can see how he gets angry for some scum destroying artifacts. Yes I can see how dirty we tourists can be. But old man, protects tourists. tells them tales about the island. That means old man loves tourists. And don't want all the bloody mess going on, and tourists choosing to avoid the little place for ever.
Sloppy. I know. If old man wants the tourists to die then why take them to secret location. Tell them boring tales then let them go un harmed?
sorry its dinner time. Ill explain more when im back
Askthepizzaguy
01-22-2009, 11:31
Bad Beefy.
You're repeating the old defenses of GH (not adding anything new)
You're ignoring new evidence (his lynch targets appear to all be innocent, his survival, his obscenely powerful, yet strangely ineffective skill... etc. List goes on and on.)
You're giving excuses for not contributing more.
If this pattern continues, I'm putting you higher on the list, my friend. :whip:
:medievalcheers:
*ahem* Just interjecting here a bit with something I caught from the previous game. Manfredo, the SK/mafia last game, was able to investigate two people per night. Just a coincidence? I think not, hosts like to keep some continuity with their roles per game.
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