View Full Version : Mafia Mongolica [Concluded]
Splitpersonality
07-23-2009, 05:40
If I wanted to make myself an unsavory lynch target I'd claim a pro-town role, and as I say every game in which I am as unimportant as I am now, I would like you to not waste a lynch on me
Vote: Khazaar if I can discuss things you can get in here and too.
Askthepizzaguy
07-23-2009, 05:41
unvote, vote: Khazaar
until he starts participating.
Beskar: 2 (Reenk Roink, pevergreen)
Reenk Roink 2: (Beskar, Tratorix)
Askthepizzaguy: 2 (White_eyes:D, gibsonsg91921)
Khazaar: 2 (spL1tp3r50naL1ty, Askthepizzaguy)
spL1tp3r50naL1ty: 1 (Chaotix)
Been messing around with my wireless internet trying to get it to work and stay connected. Finally seems to be working right not. I'll Vote:abstain for now until I can read the thread.
DJGingivitis
07-23-2009, 06:54
Vote : Tin Cow
Beskar: 2 (Reenk Roink, pevergreen)
Reenk Roink 2: (Beskar, Tratorix)
Askthepizzaguy: 2 (White_eyes:D, gibsonsg91921)
Khazaar: 2 (spL1tp3r50naL1ty, Askthepizzaguy)
spL1tp3r50naL1ty: 1 (Chaotix)
Tin Cow: 1 (DJGingivitis)
My reasoning is very simple. You have only gone after people who have started voted for people who look suspicious. However I feel that if you attempt to make a case on these people who are voting off of other people's actions that you are trying to delay someone dying perhaps yourself. Something about you stirring everything up seems odd. In the 2nd round you randomly switched to YLC. I had my suspicions about YLC up until now. His power to cast his vote for someone else's thoughts scared me. It is modern politics. But now I discovered you, a greater evil. And for this reason I shall vote for you. And YLC, my apologies but I ask you know, kind merchant, lend me your vote, vote for Tin Cow. Get rid of this murderous man.
A Very Super Market
07-23-2009, 08:18
I demand more unwarranted attention.
Vote: Split
Wow, what a split vote!
Beskar: 2 (Reenk Roink, pevergreen)
Reenk Roink 2: (Beskar, Tratorix)
Askthepizzaguy: 2 (White_eyes:D, gibsonsg91921)
Khazaar: 2 (spL1tp3r50naL1ty, Askthepizzaguy)
spL1tp3r50naL1ty: 2 (Chaotix, AVSM)
Tin Cow: 1 (DJGingivitis)
Vote : Tin Cow
Beskar: 2 (Reenk Roink, pevergreen)
Reenk Roink 2: (Beskar, Tratorix)
Askthepizzaguy: 2 (White_eyes:D, gibsonsg91921)
Khazaar: 2 (spL1tp3r50naL1ty, Askthepizzaguy)
spL1tp3r50naL1ty: 1 (Chaotix)
Tin Cow: 1 (DJGingivitis)
My reasoning is very simple. You have only gone after people who have started voted for people who look suspicious. However I feel that if you attempt to make a case on these people who are voting off of other people's actions that you are trying to delay someone dying perhaps yourself. Something about you stirring everything up seems odd. In the 2nd round you randomly switched to YLC. I had my suspicions about YLC up until now. His power to cast his vote for someone else's thoughts scared me. It is modern politics. But now I discovered you, a greater evil. And for this reason I shall vote for you. And YLC, my apologies but I ask you know, kind merchant, lend me your vote, vote for Tin Cow. Get rid of this murderous man.
I am deeply sorry, for the Reenk and the Roink is correct, and I owe him a double deal, and it is up to him how the vote falls. However, if you want, you may preorder, and when we obtain a new shipment, we will send it right to you.
Vote: Beskar
I would also like to note that I am an honest merchant, and I do not take kindly to those who deal in shadows - such as Beskar himself, you tried to buy my vote through a PM, and to vote for my current customer no less.
Askthepizzaguy
07-23-2009, 09:15
:laugh4: This is fun. After the game, you owe me a beer or something Beskar.
unvote, vote: Splitpersonality
I now beg and plead for Beskar's survival, because it's totally not scummy for me to do that.
:laugh4: This is fun. After the game, you owe me a beer or something Beskar.
unvote, vote: Splitpersonality
I now beg and plead for Beskar's survival, because it's totally not scummy for me to do that.
How dare you sir! You would make a mockery of my product because one man can sell you a poor tasting beer? I will sell you wine instead!
Askthepizzaguy
07-23-2009, 09:20
Remind me why I argued for your innocence again? Pain in the... :laugh4:
I feel that Beskar is not the right choice this round. There will be ample time to lynch him later should we go for that option.
vote: Split
Tally
spL1tp3r50naL1ty : 4 (Chaotix, AVSM, ATPG, Sigurd)
Beskar : 3 (Reenk Roink, pevergreen, YLC)
Reenk Roink : 2 (Beskar, Tratorix)
Askthepizzaguy : 2 (White_eyes:D, gibsonsg91921)
Khazaar : 1 (spL1tp3r50naL1ty)
Tin Cow : 1 (DJGingivitis)
White_eyes:D
07-23-2009, 10:01
Unvote:ATPG Vote:Beskar Get rid of the guy who is "Always going to be lynch bait":shame: (Nothing personal Beskar but your too big a threat to town)...."If we always look back, we well never move forward" Lynch Beskar and get it over with...:bow:
Askthepizzaguy
07-23-2009, 10:48
I will give anyone a cookie who spares Beskar.
Death is yonder
07-23-2009, 10:53
Vote: Split
I'd just like to say that Beskar's current playstyle correlates to his usual play.
Either, he is simply a normal townie person, or he's working very, very, hard to maintain his style of play.
I've learned from my mistakes in the past by dogmatically hounding Beskar for the type of behavior he currently displays, I don't think he's the mafia, at this point of time of course.
Tally:
spL1tp3r50naL1ty : 5 (Chaotix, AVSM, ATPG, Sigurd, DiY)
Beskar : 4 (Reenk Roink, pevergreen, YLC, WE:D)
Reenk Roink : 2 (Beskar, Tratorix)
Askthepizzaguy : 1 (gibsonsg91921)
Khazaar : 1 (spL1tp3r50naL1ty)
Tin Cow : 1 (DJGingivitis)
Abstains : 1 (Ichigo)
not voting : 5 (Caius, Jolt, Khazaar, LW, TinCow)
*names in red - WoK bait
GeneralHankerchief
07-23-2009, 11:25
Split, you really need to unvote Khazaar and put it on Beskar.
Also would you not agree that a common mindset for a player who is Mafia would be to keep his behavior the same? While I'm not a fan of the method, I do realize that it does have many fans, and I do see a motivation for Mafia to purposely keep their behavior as static as possible, whereas the motivation would be much less for a townie I feel.
Certainly, but we're not talking about situations in which people are acting normally, are we? We're talking about situations in which people are acting abnormally. There are two basic methods of acting abnormally: intentionally and unintentionally. Unintentional abnormal action is very often due to a person's innately different reaction to a game that comes when they have more information than the rest. That extra information changes their behavior even if they do not intend it to. Intentional abnormal action indicates a plan of some kind and a strategy that is being pursued with a purpose. While that purpose could certainly be of a metagaming nature, it could also be for an in-game reason.
Either way, both of the above methods indicate that something is going on with that player that deserves further probing. Does it mean mafioso? No. Does it mean I think I should put some pressure on them? Yes.
Lastly, if you feel this way, you should go and vote for me, shouldn't you? :smash::smash::smash:
I have not voted for you because I am not yet convinced you are the best lynch this round. I prefer not to move my vote around regularly, and I am very comfortable holding it until late in a phase.
I would abstain, since I don't seem to be making much sense of all the arguments around here. But since I like to matter, and since beefy is already dead (Voting against me carries extremely significant consequences as you noticed), I shall revert to voting for ATPG, since I still think random.org sucks.
Vote: ATPG
Askthepizzaguy
07-23-2009, 13:31
*POKE*
You might as well vote abstain for all the good that will do. Come on now, step up and decide. Frankly I don't even care if you pick the person I've been trying to defend, just pick one.
Umm, kinda missed the bus on this one but I´m catching up. ATPG offered me a cookie if I vote for Split so I´ll do that...
Vote: Splitpersonality
atheotes
07-23-2009, 14:31
so whats the case on split anyways :inquisitive:
seems like a bandwagon to me :shrug:
DJGingivitis
07-23-2009, 14:42
This is some serious bandwagon that apparently I am missing. While split has just been lurking does not mean he is mafia. We already voted out FH mistakenly because he had not said anything, so why do it again this early in the game. Wait till later in the game to do it.
Death is yonder
07-23-2009, 14:49
This is some serious bandwagon that apparently I am missing. While split has just been lurking does not mean he is mafia. We already voted out FH mistakenly because he had not said anything, so why do it again this early in the game. Wait till later in the game to do it.
I think it is because that we feel that Beskar's current style is not unusual, and whilst it may be to one who doesn't really play with him, its just, his way of handling things.
Wait till later in the game to do it.
The merits behind getting rid of lurkers is a fine balance between removing someone who is currently not contributing actively and is unlikely to do so in the foreseeable future, thus becoming a vote that the town loses, as well as doing it too dogmatically such that the mafia is able to blend it and hide within it.
But generally, its not the end game that one should be focusing on the lurkers, by then, we *hopefully* should have narrowed down the pointer at suspicious characters through discussion, and with some luck, eliminate the mafia.
This is generally why discussion is very important in a game, particularly games such as these where town mainly relies on analysis and etc, and lurking is simply just going to help the mafia.
There have been many games where the mafia have had walkovers simply because the town did not actively discuss enough.]
Edit: On the other side of the coin, being too overzealous about it is why people also tend to avoid either trying to focus on one person.
Unvote:ATPG Vote:Beskar Get rid of the guy who is "Always going to be lynch bait":shame: (Nothing personal Beskar but your too big a threat to town)...."If we always look back, we well never move forward" Lynch Beskar and get it over with...:bow:
Just an example to cite.
so whats the case on split anyways :inquisitive:
seems like a bandwagon to me :shrug:
A-yup. It is most curious and warrants examination. The split votes started as an effort to get him talking, and then snowballed into a convenient target to spare Beskar. As the former purpose has been served, those who are voting for him who are not using the 'Save Beskar!' excuse are extremely suspect. This currently includes Chaotix and AVSM. Khazaar is also in the category, but appears to be voting for split out of sheer laziness.
A Very Super Market
07-23-2009, 18:11
You fail to see that me and Chaotix never put him ahead. I did it for the chil- tie! And some wordplay. It was good fun.
Unvote, Vote: Khazaar
spL1tp3r50naL1ty : 5 (Chaotix, ATPG, Sigurd, DiY, Khazaar)
Beskar : 5 (Reenk Roink, pevergreen, YLC, WE:D, Tincow)
Khazaar : 2 (spL1tp3r50naL1ty, AVSM)
Reenk Roink : 2 (Beskar, Tratorix)
Askthepizzaguy : 2 (gibsonsg91921, Jolt)
Tin Cow : 1 (DJGingivitis)
Abstains : 1 (Ichigo)
not voting : 2 (Caius, LW)
Because joining a bandwagon on someone who voted for you isn't silly at all.
seireikhaan
07-23-2009, 19:04
This round will end at exactly 5:30 AM CST, or 10:30 GMT, regardless of whether I am on and the writeup is posted.
EDIT: Khazaar vote for splitpersonality.
Hrmph. If a choice must be made between split and Beskar, and apparently it must, Beskar is the better option. A weak case is better than no case.
Vote: Beskar
spL1tp3r50naL1ty : 5 (Chaotix, ATPG, Sigurd, DiY, Khazaar)
Beskar : 5 (Reenk Roink, pevergreen, YLC, WE:D, TinCow)
Khazaar : 2 (spL1tp3r50naL1ty, AVSM)
Reenk Roink : 2 (Beskar, Tratorix)
Askthepizzaguy : 2 (gibsonsg91921, Jolt)
Tin Cow : 1 (DJGingivitis)
Abstains : 1 (Ichigo)
not voting : 2 (Caius, LW)
Remember TinCow, when there was a stupid bandwagon on you, who stood by your side, in attempts to save you, because as an accused Townie themselves, they believed you were not the Mafia, and actually stood up against the almightly bandwagon and go "No, look, you lot, are wrong, this Metal Beefy chum of mine is not a Mafia!". When everyone was after you, you was like a beacon of light standing there going "You shalt not pass!"...
You should have learnt that Beskar is a friend for life.
https://img193.imageshack.us/img193/1606/dontlynchbeskar.jpg
Remember TinCow, when there was a stupid bandwagon on you, who stood by your side, in attempts to save you, because as an accused Townie themselves, they believed you were not the Mafia, and actually stood up against the almightly bandwagon and go "No, look, you lot, are wrong, this Metal Beefy chum of mine is not a Mafia!". When everyone was after you, you was like a beacon of light standing there going "You shalt not pass!"...
I am currently voting for you because after a rather decent day's worth of discussion, you remain the best case that has been presented. I am curious about several other people, but not sufficiently so to vote for them. The case against you is minimal at best, but it is there at a basic level. If you have a stronger case against someone else, please present it. What you need to do at this point is not defend yourself, but give us some viable reason to lynch someone who isn't you.
I gave more about Reenk Roink to be lynched than any case so far. The case against me is "Beskar is lynch bait, kill him". Hell, even you had a case about Reenk Roink, then decided not to carry on through with it. So you doing this, is some what suspect. Even Sigurd thinks the case against me is not the right one, so does Pizza, so is Death is Yonder.
If you notice, there is a bunch of people which think I am not guilty, is it normal in Mafia for people to actually defend other people? Are all those people Mafia? No, this is what they are. They are all Beskar's. Join today and get a free virtual t-shirt proclaiming your Beskar-ness, in a variety of colours and designs.
Reenk Roink
07-23-2009, 21:50
So finally some things new emerge from the woodwork.
I'm suspicious of anyone who voted for splitpersonality. What was the reason? All I can think of is that he voted without giving a reason and he was third on the bandwagon on me. The first while indeed not really being any paragon of innocence cannot be so damning as to lynch when there are more well developed reasons for voting another and the latter is a cliche which has little worth.
The reason why I am suspicious of people voting split is because I think this would be plausible Mafia reasoning: Atpg, Beskar, and Reenk are likely to go anyway so let's keep them around when we need patsies more and try to get rid of another like FactionHeir or Beefy.
To be honest, I'd rather you lynch me than splitpersonality. The same applies to Khaazar by the way.
Now then, these are the people that should be focused on imo:
Beskar, Atpg, Reenk (you know...)
Tratorix (explained before too)
Sigurd:
I feel that Beskar is not the right choice this round. There will be ample time to lynch him later should we go for that option.
This post fits in to what I was thinking. Keeping us suspicious folk around as long as possible for a rainy day, taking a convenient lynch on split... :inquisitive:
Death is Yonder (votes split and then talks about something unrelated)
TinCow:
Vote : Tin Cow
Beskar: 2 (Reenk Roink, pevergreen)
Reenk Roink 2: (Beskar, Tratorix)
Askthepizzaguy: 2 (White_eyes:D, gibsonsg91921)
Khazaar: 2 (spL1tp3r50naL1ty, Askthepizzaguy)
spL1tp3r50naL1ty: 1 (Chaotix)
Tin Cow: 1 (DJGingivitis)
My reasoning is very simple. You have only gone after people who have started voted for people who look suspicious. However I feel that if you attempt to make a case on these people who are voting off of other people's actions that you are trying to delay someone dying perhaps yourself. Something about you stirring everything up seems odd. In the 2nd round you randomly switched to YLC. I had my suspicions about YLC up until now. His power to cast his vote for someone else's thoughts scared me. It is modern politics. But now I discovered you, a greater evil. And for this reason I shall vote for you. And YLC, my apologies but I ask you know, kind merchant, lend me your vote, vote for Tin Cow. Get rid of this murderous man.
I agree with points of this case, and would have considered TinCow to be trying to keep us patsies around as long as possible until he voted Beskar... Turning a new leaf, faking us out, or legitimate?
Chaotix and Khaazar (the former tried to justify his vote because split voted himself. Kinda lacking, I agree but maybe it's genuine and it doesn't have the malevolent feel like say Sigurd's vote. Khaazar voted split cause Atpg would give him a cookie. I don't know if he'd get it, though it would be cool if he did, and his vote would be very understandable :laugh4:)
Can't you guys tell reenks alignment?
Its clear as day to me every game. :shrug:
Not everyone has the pevereenk connection. :shakehands: :cool:
P.S: Thank you very much YLC. :bow:
I gave more about Reenk Roink to be lynched than any case so far. The case against me is "Beskar is lynch bait, kill him".
No you didn't and no it's not.
No you didn't and no it's not.
Yes I did and yes it is.
Splitpersonality
07-23-2009, 22:00
Yay I'm getting lynched!
Now I can focus on my game.
In all seriousness it's a waste of a lynch, but I suppose lynching someone innocent in place of no lynch is always good!
Reenk Roink
07-23-2009, 22:03
Yes I did and yes it is.
Your case against me is that I panicked when you called me out so I went on to retaliate vote against you and built a "post hoc" case against you in an attempt to justify it. Is this correct?
If so, I have already responded to this long ago (to which you put an animation of Michael Jackson anachronistically in his Smooth Criminal suit dancing to Beat It saying "Lynch Reenk").
I pointed out that I was in no danger to be lynched when you called me out, nor have I been in any real danger to be lynched at all. I also pointed out that your entire accusation of my case being "post hoc" is simply unconvincing because of course I noticed a connection between you and Atpg after you "called me out" because you clearly stated your belief in Atpg's innocence.
Furthermore your very own case against me retaliation voting against you is "post hoc" itself, so if you are trying to imply that a post hoc case has some defect (which is what I believe you are trying to imply) than by your own standard your case against me is weak.
No, I called you out, you voted me. It's the start of this tale.
Splitpersonality
07-23-2009, 22:06
Unvote; Vote:Beskar maybe I CAN save myself for a round...
I have to agree with tincow, there is no argument against me besides the fact that I am sadly not beskar, this is a **** argument tbqh
Tally:
Beskar : 6 (Reenk Roink, pevergreen, YLC, WE:D, TinCow, Splitpersonality)
spL1tp3r50naL1ty : 5 (Chaotix, ATPG, Sigurd, DiY, Khazaar)
Khazaar : 1 (AVSM)
Reenk Roink : 2 (Beskar, Tratorix)
Askthepizzaguy : 2 (gibsonsg91921, Jolt)
Tin Cow : 1 (DJGingivitis)
Abstains : 1 (Ichigo)
not voting : 2 (Caius, LW)
The case against me is "Beskar is lynch bait, kill him".
This is not remotely true. There are a few solid pieces of evidence against you. First, Reenk pointed out a posting/voting pattern (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2293037&postcount=137) that indicated a possible connection between you and ATPG. This was before ATPG just decided to be open about it and lead the Save Ferris! campaign. Second, GH's murder indicates an attempt to get rid of someone voting for you or to frame you. While this is a WIFOM situation, combined with the first point, it is at least something to go on.
It is not a strong case. I've said that many times. But I have yet to see a stronger one be presented. Thus, I encourage you to present a stronger case if you want to sway my vote. I assure you, I am not a bandwagoner and will give due consideration to your words.
Hell, even you had a case about Reenk Roink, then decided not to carry on through with it.
Reenk is notoriously difficult to read. I am wary of him and will certainly spar with him plenty more in the future, but I am not comfortable making a judgment call on him yet.
One final note, I would like to bring some attention back to this bit that I posted earlier (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2294299&postcount=211) and which has so far been ignored:
I can tell that ATPG and Beskar have had outofthread communication, but I can't see that 'khaan forbids it as long as there are no quoting of PM's or revealing victory conditions. Mafia or TIN? Hard to tell.
There hasn't been any out of thread communication between me and Pizza either, as I said before this statement, maybe he was just repaying the favour where I helped stop him getting needlessly lynched.
Interesting disparity here. Sigurd, why do you think they've been chatting?
Since that post, Sigurd has proclaimed that Beskar isn't the right choice for a lynch this round without further explanation. I would very much like to hear more from him on this subject.
Unvote; Vote: Splitpersonality
For doing that.
Reenk Roink
07-23-2009, 22:14
No, I called you out, you voted me. It's the start of this tale.
Assertions without reasons should be dismissed without reason. Despite that I have actually taken the time to respond to your case. I'm pretty sure that's why despite the inherently limited nature of my own case, it has manifold amounts of persuasive appeal as compared to yours.
@ TinCow: What do you think about what I think about Sigurd? That he is simply trying to make a list of patsies for later? It would explain that comment on Atpg and Beskar and also explain why he did not actually bother to ever lynch Beskar when there was another alternative?
Yeah, because obviously, me, Tratorix, ATPG, Sigurd, Death is Yonder and anyone else who doesn't follow your bandwagon are Mafia. Even though there are only two Mafia.
If anything, I bet the Mafia is in your bandwagon and on top of that, it could even be you.
@ TinCow: What do you think about what I think about Sigurd? That he is simply trying to make a list of patsies for later? It would explain that comment on Atpg and Beskar and also explain why he did not actually bother to ever lynch Beskar when there was another alternative?
Sigurd certainly warrants further scrutiny. Review of his posts shows him giving a surprising amount of credibility (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2293794&postcount=198) to the 'third on the bandwagon' joke.
Btw APTG, what happened to your Midas uber-network of finding mafia? Last I heard was your Great Wall of Text in Godfather 3.
Tratorix
07-23-2009, 22:31
Unvote:ATPG Vote:Beskar Get rid of the guy who is "Always going to be lynch bait" (Nothing personal Beskar but your too big a threat to town)...."If we always look back, we well never move forward" Lynch Beskar and get it over with...
Scummy, scummy, scummy... :no:
Anyone voting to lynch Beskar by the excuse of "He's lynch bait" and "a danger to the town" should be very closely looked at. This isn't the first round, you should be able to come up with better reasoning for your vote than that.
Unvote, Vote: Splitpersonality. Way too quick to pull the trigger on a self vote and I still think Beskar is innocent.
Splitpersonality
07-23-2009, 22:47
When does the round end?
Splitpersonality
07-23-2009, 23:04
Thanks.
pevergreen
07-23-2009, 23:18
Sigurd certainly warrants further scrutiny. Review of his posts shows him giving a surprising amount of credibility (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2293794&postcount=198) to the 'third on the bandwagon' joke.
'Tis hardly a joke, as much as we laugh when throwing it around, time after time it has proven itself to be correct.
Its just the right amount of votes for the mafia to vote without being noticed, but not far enough back to be a bandwagoner.
Its caught me out before, I did it, lynched the next day and I was mafia.
edit: Without realising I did it.
A Very Super Market
07-23-2009, 23:25
Since no one else is voting for Khazaar, I will vote for Split, because I'm bananas, and bananas don't take orders for Transition Metals, or hooved mammals.
They don't have ears either.
Unvote, Vote: Split
'Tis hardly a joke, as much as we laugh when throwing it around, time after time it has proven itself to be correct.
Its just the right amount of votes for the mafia to vote without being noticed, but not far enough back to be a bandwagoner.
Its caught me out before, I did it, lynched the next day and I was mafia.
edit: Without realising I did it.
Want to buy a bridge?
pevergreen
07-23-2009, 23:40
Want to buy a bridge?
I have been looking for a solid investment.
Askthepizzaguy
07-24-2009, 00:13
spL1tp3r50naL1ty : 8 (Chaotix, ATPG, Sigurd, DiY, Khazaar, Beskar, Tratorix, AVSM)
Beskar : 6 (Reenk Roink, pevergreen, YLC, WE:D, TinCow, Splitpersonality)
Askthepizzaguy : 2 (gibsonsg91921, Jolt)
Tin Cow : 1 (DJGingivitis)
Abstains : 1 (Ichigo)
not voting : 2 (Caius, LW)
=============================================
So far as I am aware, this is the tally. Ok after a few hours of sleep, I'm here... again.
To answer your question, Jolt, the system has been completely designed and programmed by Kommodus and myself, and it's installed on my system right now, I just haven't gotten around to testing it yet.
pevergreen
07-24-2009, 00:14
Kommo had his program, and now you've combined?
Im so confused. Who/where is Kommo. :cry:
Askthepizzaguy
07-24-2009, 00:19
Kommodus and I sat down and redesigned both of our systems and combined them into one program. As for where he is... I could have sworn he was going to join Capo III... I'd better send him an email reminder. Now, if I could only find my cookies folder on my danged machine I could actually plug MIDAS in and give it a test drive. Sad innit?
pevergreen
07-24-2009, 00:38
GH said welcome back Kommo in the thread, but I can't see him.
Sorry ATPG, the new system just won't command respect from me. Not like the old one.
What was the name of it again? Holmes? Anyone else remember the game where it was the central plot element? I loved the ending of that game. :yes:
I think it's time for a
SURPRISE VOTE-CHANGE!
Unvote: Split, Vote: Beskar.
Because I like ties very much. Also, although it may not matter too much this round, AVSM is being way too nonsensical. Or perhaps not nonsensical enough. Hmm, I can't decide, I'm still recovering from a terrible bout of randomness. Either way, he should be kept an eye on. Or maybe even an ear.
GeneralHankerchief
07-24-2009, 01:53
If so, I have already responded to this long ago (to which you put an animation of Michael Jackson anachronistically in his Smooth Criminal suit dancing to Beat It saying "Lynch Reenk").
Possible candidate for "excerpt of the year" award? :laugh4:
Anyway, I saw Kommodus reading the Capo sign-up thread in invisible mode and pre-emptively welcomed him back. I'm sure he'll grace us with his presence sooner or later. :yes:
Anyway, I again stress the importance of lynching Beskar now while our attention is focused on him. The natural flow of mafia games will give us different suspects in the next rounds, and there have been more instances of the town putting pressure on a mafioso early-game and then letting him slip by than I can remember.
-edit- Mafia VI, pever.
No matter how many times you say to lynch me, you won't get your justice, because I didn't kill you. Accept it. All I can say is, there are many people saying I am innocent and defending me.
Why would they do that, if I was "Mafia scum" ? Put on your thinking hats people, seriously. Unless you are trying to say there are 7 Mafia in a 2 Mafia game.
GeneralHankerchief
07-24-2009, 02:20
Two mafia, five mistaken people. Or one mafia with six mistaken people and the second mafioso simply hanging back.
Your argument is essentially that anytime anyone has more defenders than there are mafiosi in the game, they are innocent. Which, of course, is incorrect.
No matter how many times you say to lynch me, you won't get your justice, because I didn't kill you. Accept it. All I can say is, there are many people saying I am innocent and defending me.
Why would they do that, if I was "Mafia scum" ? Put on your thinking hats people, seriously. Unless you are trying to say there are 7 Mafia in a 2 Mafia game.
Contrary to popular belief, just because somebody says you are innocent does not make it so. Obviously we cannot know for sure whether or not you are mafia or town, but as of now, you are the biggest suspect. Generally the biggest suspect tends to get lynched in mafia games.
Askthepizzaguy
07-24-2009, 02:23
Beskar can't be guilty because he's my... err.... sweetie pie. :shame:
Splitpersonality
07-24-2009, 02:23
It could be that the people defending you are just misled, maybe this misleading was sparked by the other mafia member whose argument defended you?
Just because people are defending you doesn't mean you're innocent.
Look at me, no one is defending me but i'm clear as day innocent.
EDIT:
Oh okay ATPG, in that case we should lay off. Because that's adorable.
I would love to feel complimented, that I am some actual Mafia Guru Game Lord, where that possibly exists, however, the truth is far more simple and "oh... just another townie".
Your argument is essentially that anytime anyone has more defenders than there are mafiosi in the game, they are innocent. Which, of course, is incorrect.
Or it could be, they know something you don't know, therefore it might be an idea to listen to them.
Askthepizzaguy
07-24-2009, 02:27
Quit denying it Beskar, you know you loves me.
Splitpersonality
07-24-2009, 02:33
You can't run from your feelings, not on the internet at least.
Askthepizzaguy
07-24-2009, 02:37
If you want our perfectly natural love to blossom, you'll vote for yourself, Split. I believe you're the only sane one left who still recognizes the power of love. I'll give you a cookie if you commit suicide so that Beskar and I can make beautiful babies together.
Splitpersonality
07-24-2009, 02:43
Now you see if I didn't believe in the true power of love, I'd say that sounds like a mafia partnership dealy,
but that was such a ballsy gamble on your part I may just give it to you...
Askthepizzaguy
07-24-2009, 02:46
I pinky swear that I am not mafia.
*skips off into the sunset hand in hand with the awesome manliness that is Beskar*
pevergreen
07-24-2009, 02:52
:sick:
Splitpersonality
07-24-2009, 03:04
If you vote for yourself Beskar, ATPG can't bother you.
Unless he is into that sort of thing...
GeneralHankerchief
07-24-2009, 03:06
Or it could be, they know something you don't know, therefore it might be an idea to listen to them.
If you're implying what I think you're implying, then you've just given the mafia a laundry list of names to go after.
You think I am the Mafia, so that is a moot point coming from you.
GeneralHankerchief
07-24-2009, 03:23
Not necessarily.
Either as a townie you're putting the Detective's identity at risk so you can stay alive, or you're guilty and bluffing.
Either way, you need to be lynched.
GeneralHankerchief thought I needed to be lynched so badly, he said it twice.
(Also, no, I don't need to be lynched. You just need to stop saying "Lynch: Beskar" every post. It has the same effect.)
GeneralHankerchief
07-24-2009, 03:27
If you truly want to stay alive, I think you'd be better off responding to my point about selfishness rather than commenting on my double post.
Lynch: Beskar
Askthepizzaguy
07-24-2009, 03:34
Won't someone please save my cuddle bunny from an inglorious and unwarranted death? :shame:
I am going to talk to FieldMarshallTissue about your behaviour. There needs to be more discipline within the ranks.
However, the only reason you keep saying I am a detective, is because you are wanting the Mafia to kill me, if I don't get lynched (or get them to lynch me) and trying to get anyone who is not voting for me, lynched/night killed. You are unhealthily obsessed for what ever bizarre reason.
Reenk Roink
07-24-2009, 04:16
-edit- Mafia VI, pever.
Wasn't it Mafia V? Mafia IV was the really cheap profile watching program. :laugh4: I played Mafia VI (last game of your original series for me) and all I remember is bitterly going after Sasaki for his playstyle but I was killed early. Now I'm trying somewhat to imitate him because he's gone again. :sad:
To the game: It's sad that Beskar will once again escape death and not only that, but like split will be lynched for some random reason when there are a host of better lynches. Do note two things:
1) GeneralHankerchief's vote might have been critical to this round
2) Beskar went to YLC by PM asking him to buy his vote (and the honest businessman kept his trade honest and informed us about it)
1) GeneralHankerchief's vote might have been critical to this round
Now you're stretching it a bit too far. There was no way anyone could have predicted we'd end up in a tie this round.
1) GeneralHankerchief's vote might have been critical to this round
No it wouldn't, since your argument is that I killed him. even though it was obvious frame up.
Splitpersonality
07-24-2009, 04:23
There was no way anyone could have predicted we'd end up in a tie this round.
Does it count that as soon as I knew I was going to post, I knew I was going to be in a tie or lynched? :P
Really though everyone who says Beskar isn't a good lynch, i.e. everyone voting for me right now. Why am I a good lynch then?
People seem to be vehemently defending Beskar but I'm only being used to tie with him.
Reenk Roink
07-24-2009, 04:25
Now you're stretching it a bit too far. There was no way anyone could have predicted we'd end up in a tie this round.
Prediction? Who cares about predictions, look at the results right now.
As soon as GH was killed, I pointed out that one reason might be for Beskar to take out someone who constantly voted for him (and made clear his suspicions and his intentions to continue with them) who also was not attracting much attention.
I'm sure you'll bring up the vacuous tool of WIFOM again... just remember, everything can be WIFOM... :juggle2:
Vote:Abstain
Will catch up later
Askthepizzaguy
07-24-2009, 04:33
I offer you guys my skills if you vote for Pedro instead of Beskar. He's got a really sweet mustache and if you vote for him all your wildest dreams will come true.
Splitpersonality
07-24-2009, 04:33
Oh alrgiht great!
Unvote, Vote:Pedro
GeneralHankerchief
07-24-2009, 04:55
Mafia IV was the really cheap profile-watching program, yes. Mafia V was the story of The Wanax. Mafia VI had you dogging Sasaki but the overlying narration, courtesy of Andres and Dutch_guy, was that the mafia was trying to find and destroy the Holmes program.
Also, to those that point to my death and scream "frame", I will once again point out the fact that it could have been a double-bluff.
Lynch: Beskar
Askthepizzaguy
07-24-2009, 04:58
This discussion is going a whole lot of nowhere; maybe someone can break the tie so we can end this shamefest.
Why double? Why not Triple bluff? Where you say frame, of the frame? Why not even quadtruple bluff, where you say frame, of the frame, of the frame?!
When does the madness end?
Splitpersonality
07-24-2009, 05:03
The madness never ends beskar.
GeneralHankerchief
07-24-2009, 05:08
It ends when you die.
Lynch: Beskar
Splitpersonality
07-24-2009, 05:10
It ends when you die.
Lynch: Beskar
Mafia: Promoting peace and love since June 2006
I find this funny
*GeneralHankerchief opens his PM box*
"You have received an infraction for the following spam message: Lynch:Beskar; 1 point; this expires 25/08/09"
White_eyes:D
07-24-2009, 05:14
:laugh4: but I agree with GH....Beskar needs to go. If he stays around we well be dealing with him for half the game...and the Mafia can just slip in and put a killing vote on him....much like now...:whip:
Askthepizzaguy
07-24-2009, 05:15
:charge:
Well, Beskar my heroic stallion, shall we have one last go? I'll always remember your tender touch, your pretty eyes, and your totally not scummy behavior that was unfairly bandwagoned by a town that doesn't believe in love anymore.
If he stays around we well be dealing with him for half the game...and the Mafia can just slip in and put a killing vote on him....much like now...:whip:
No you won't, just don't bother with me, and focus on other people, it is that easy. Unless you are trying to hide something, hence your motive.
doesn't believe in love
What is love?
Baby don't hurt me
Don't hurt me
No more...
Askthepizzaguy
07-24-2009, 06:05
Hey Caius, I'll give you kisses if you vote for Split.
If you don't like that, I'll give you cookies.
Hey Caius, I'll give you kisses if you vote for Split.
If you don't like that, I'll give you cookies.
Disgusting the part of the kisses. I am catching up.
pevergreen
07-24-2009, 07:22
What is love?
Baby don't hurt me
Don't hurt me
No more...
Winner!
I haven´t received my cookie yet, normally bribes are payed in advance. I might have to change my vote to save Beskar from the shame that is a public reveal...
Sooo ...
Split is the lynch of this round? I think he unvoted Beskar.
Prediction? Who cares about predictions, look at the results right now.
As soon as GH was killed, I pointed out that one reason might be for Beskar to take out someone who constantly voted for him (and made clear his suspicions and his intentions to continue with them) who also was not attracting much attention.
I'm sure you'll bring up the vacuous tool of WIFOM again... just remember, everything can be WIFOM... :juggle2:
Sorry, you're right. The fact that you pointed that out completely negates the possibility that GH was killed to frame Beskar. I stand corrected and will blindly follow your lead whenever something appears to be uncertain. Thank you for lifting the heavy burden which results from thinking for oneself.
Unvote; Vote: Split
Because I like to matter.
Askthepizzaguy
07-24-2009, 12:26
:2thumbsup:
You saved my Beskar. You're awesome! Cookies and balloons for everyone! :balloon2:
Splitpersonality
07-24-2009, 15:41
My unvote wasn't bolded and it was a joke anyway, we were still tied at the time.
I figure I'm pretty dead right about now, Unvote; Vote:Splitpersonality so I'll be happy to go without too much fight now.
I want to urge the town to watch things, and also I don't really understand how I got completely bandwaggoned with no one saying more than "He's not beskar", because that's on one hand a little bs and on the other hand a little dumb for town, unless beskar's a pro-town, but there's still time to lynch him anyway.
Whatever.
seireikhaan
07-24-2009, 16:56
My queasiness about security was thankfully alleviated by a welcoming gesture by Shinzei Khan. He seemed to ba bit more discerning of the growing animosity in camp towards myself. As I took my position next to him for the council, I thanked him for the kind generosity he has continued to show me. He insisted it was merely a part of his duty. And with that, he initiated the council once more. Very quickly, for reasons I wasn't able to decipher, the council quickly narrowed matters down to two tribesmen. For once, the general milling about by the tribesmen during debate seemed to be greatly lessened, as nearly all took great interest in the outcome. As the sun was finishing its descent on the landscape, I informed Shinzei that we had a tie between the two. He announced, and without hesitation, a warrior quickly changed platform, accusing splitpersonality of being the spy. With that, he was quickly subdued by a handful of men who presented the man to Shinzei. Shinzei unsheathed his sword, and without a word, brought it down upon the man's skull, splitting it in two as though it were a mere cabbage. I turned my head in disgust, before heading back to my tent for the night, hoping that such a gruesome sight would be worth it.
-- The Record of Zhang Qian
spL1tp3r50naL1ty : 8 (ATPG, Sigurd, DiY, Khazaar, Beskar, Jolt, Tratorix, AVSM)
Beskar : 7 (Chaotix, Reenk Roink, pevergreen, YLC, WE:D, TinCow, Splitpersonality)
Askthepizzaguy : 1 (gibsonsg91921)
Tin Cow : 1 (DJGingivitis)
Abstains : 2 (Ichigo, Caius)
not voting : 1 (LW)
ORDERS NOW PLEASE! AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
Splitpersonality
07-24-2009, 17:29
I hope something is gained of this.
Reenk Roink
07-24-2009, 17:45
Sorry, you're right. The fact that you pointed that out completely negates the possibility that GH was killed to frame Beskar. I stand corrected and will blindly follow your lead whenever something appears to be uncertain. Thank you for lifting the heavy burden which results from thinking for oneself.
Is there a point to these overbearingly sarcastic comments that really have no point as they essentially are false attributions of statements to me?
I'll ask you again, where did predicting the lynch would be tied come in to the fact that GH's vote would have well, made a huge difference that round? :wall:
Not to mention the fact that it's not hard to see how it wouldn't be close given the opinions of many voters that previous round anyway? :juggle2:
I think it's reasonable to add a little more value to a notion that Beskar killed GH to take off someone who would be reasonably expected to vote for him again and wasn't looking like lynchbait...
Are you really looking for such a great deal of certainty (or absolute certainty)? Good luck in your search if you are. Go ahead and put votes on the likes of FactionHeir and YLC in the meantime. :rolleyes:
Is there a point to these overbearingly sarcastic comments that really have no point as they essentially are false attributions of statements to me?
Two reasons. First, they provoke a response. Second, successfully ridiculing an opponent's arguments is an effective way to sway opinion.
I'll ask you again, where did predicting the lynch would be tied come in to the fact that GH's vote would have well, made a huge difference that round? :wall:
There was no way for a single vote to have made ANY difference in the vote unless it was tied. Surely I do not need to explain why this is true.
Not to mention the fact that it's not hard to see how it wouldn't be close given the opinions of many voters that previous round anyway? :juggle2:
Pardon, but there was no suspicion on split at all before GH was killed. The main focus was entirely on Beskar and ATPG, whom you believe to be in league with one another. Their very relationship would have made it highly unlikely that both of them would have been the options for the lynch. One was always going to take the lead as the standard bearer for the Lynch ATPG/Beskar Party and without a third suspect the odds of a tie were minimal.
I think it's reasonable to add a little more value to a notion that Beskar killed GH to take off someone who would be reasonably expected to vote for him again and wasn't looking like lynchbait...
Then we simply disagree. As I noted immediately after the night results came in, my first thought was that he was framed. At best, I give it 50/50 odds. I simply disagree that Beskar killing GH should be given greater weight for some amorphous reason you have yet to define.
Are you really looking for such a great deal of certainty (or absolute certainty)? Good luck in your search if you are. Go ahead and put votes on the likes of FactionHeir and YLC in the meantime. :rolleyes:
No need, I will likely be placing it on you next round. You still haven't explained your change in play style. You are not remotely acting like yourself.
Askthepizzaguy
07-24-2009, 18:57
If I may weigh in;
I am aware people think Beskar is guilty and so forth, and they're free to vote for him next round, but in my opinion the debate on Beskar has already been said and done. Quite honestly the issue feels overblown to me, from where I sit. It's clear he's not going to get very far with so many wanting to lynch him. I also feel that the division between various players over the issue is going to unduly color attitudes going into future rounds about who is a friend and who is a potential rival.
In short, this whole thing is becoming a convenient distraction and causing unnecessary divisions between townies. Most of the people voting for either candidate are going to end up being innocent, and just because you sided differently on the Split/Beskar vote, that doesn't automatically mean the opposition is scummy.
Of course it's scummy that I said that and yadda yadda; I'm starting to see Reenk's point on how useless WIFOM is.
Askthepizzaguy
07-24-2009, 19:35
I agree. I've been acting scummy. We should vote for me next round.
Reenk Roink
07-24-2009, 20:40
There was no way for a single vote to have made ANY difference in the vote unless it was tied. Surely I do not need to explain why this is true.
I see I do need to explain some things to you. A GH vote on Beskar, keeping all other things equal would have tied the vote. That would have sent it to tiebreaker. That may have allowed gibson, for example, who had explicitly stated in the thread hat he was suspicious of Beskar and Atpg, to vote Beskar (he voted Atpg).
Pardon, but there was no suspicion on split at all before GH was killed. The main focus was entirely on Beskar and ATPG, whom you believe to be in league with one another. Their very relationship would have made it highly unlikely that both of them would have been the options for the lynch. One was always going to take the lead as the standard bearer for the Lynch ATPG/Beskar Party and without a third suspect the odds of a tie were minimal.
And you bring up split because? I thought your initial position was that there was no way to determine that this round would end up in a tie. Given the voting from before, along with various banter on the matter, it seemed that roughly half of the interested parties were convinced that Beskar was the best lynch while the other half of interested parties were not.
This bore out in the voting for split where it seems that most of the votes against him were to save Beskar. This is something you yourself have stated by the way. :wink:
So it doesn't matter about split at all, and I have my speculations as to your motivations why you decided to bring him up in this discussion despite the fact that it was not relevant. After all it is hard
Of course, this entire point of being able to reasonable predict whether the vote on Beskar would be close or not is moot, as we had the third round in front of us, and it was close, and GH's vote would have mattered significantly as it would tie it. These facts remain clear despite your attempts to run around them.
I have noted two habits of yours. One is to misinterpret (intentionally or not) posts. The second is to take an argument into different directions for whatever reason. However, it isn't too hard to notice what you're doing and you will be called out for it. :yes:
Then we simply disagree. As I noted immediately after the night results came in, my first thought was that he was framed. At best, I give it 50/50 odds. I simply disagree that Beskar killing GH should be given greater weight for some amorphous reason you have yet to define.
Fair enough though I believe the reason I gave certainly is well defined enough. Is there a particular reason it deserves the label you give it?
No need, I will likely be placing it on you next round. You still haven't explained your change in play style. You are not remotely acting like yourself.
Oh no? :laugh4:
I don't have to explain my change in playstyle at all.
I'd love to see any inferential link that somehow connects this "fact"* to being scummy. Heck, I'd love to see even any kind of correlation that is more significant than other patterns of behavior. Of course, as you stated before, you aren't interested in even beginning to question this dogma and you've never really given any kind of proof that a significant correlation exists.
* In fact, I'll bet you two Atpg cookies that you will have a heck of a time defining my behavior and than pointing to the ways that it changes. You've already admitted as much that you haven't exactly played too much with me, and your lack of knowledge on especially my playstyle in the early days of Mafia here at the org is quite evident.
Just in case you're curious, my behavior here bears striking resemblance in two major games: Interficio quod Scrupulosa and Mafia VI. Not only that but in many other games I have decidedly acted this way in parts of many other games.
You believe it is odd for me to go so tenaciously after someone? This is most likely because you have imperfect knowledge of my play style.
Reenk Roink
07-24-2009, 20:43
If I may weigh in;
I am aware people think Beskar is guilty and so forth, and they're free to vote for him next round, but in my opinion the debate on Beskar has already been said and done. Quite honestly the issue feels overblown to me, from where I sit. It's clear he's not going to get very far with so many wanting to lynch him. I also feel that the division between various players over the issue is going to unduly color attitudes going into future rounds about who is a friend and who is a potential rival.
In short, this whole thing is becoming a convenient distraction and causing unnecessary divisions between townies. Most of the people voting for either candidate are going to end up being innocent, and just because you sided differently on the Split/Beskar vote, that doesn't automatically mean the opposition is scummy.
Of course it's scummy that I said that and yadda yadda; I'm starting to see Reenk's point on how useless WIFOM is.
Agree with most of this.
However, if I may continue on some points. Some people voting for split are certainly suspicious over others. I believe the theory of keeping Beskar (and you and me) around as patsies is a decent explanation.
The Beskar/Atpg/Reenk thing has become overblown but it's probably for good. In the first round there was little real discussion as usual. However, in the second round despite the fact that most of the issue stems from there, there was quite a bit of apathy.
It was this last round that the floodgates opened. We now have a lot more to go on then just Beskar/Atpg/Reenk. We can now speculate on why some people voted split for example (especially Sigurd imo).
Askthepizzaguy
07-24-2009, 20:50
I do like the discussion, it certainly beats random pointless voting which is easier to hide in and easy for the mafia to manipulate. However, when the discussion becomes so... pointed, shall we say, it almost puts players into the position of making an "enemies list" so to speak. Those who keep voting against us, or whatnot. Often times these factors will be more in the forefront of our minds than actual scummy behavior.
I do this myself, and I'm making a conscious effort to remember how lazy and sloppy that is.
Reenk Roink
07-24-2009, 21:01
I do like the discussion, it certainly beats random pointless voting which is easier to hide in and easy for the mafia to manipulate. However, when the discussion becomes so... pointed, shall we say, it almost puts players into the position of making an "enemies list" so to speak. Those who keep voting against us, or whatnot. Often times these factors will be more in the forefront of our minds than actual scummy behavior.
I do this myself, and I'm making a conscious effort to remember how lazy and sloppy that is.
Ah it's all good fun sparring against a lawyer. ~:pat:
Well TinCow is probably my biggest interlocutor (yes even bigger than Beskar :laugh4:) but I doubt I will vote for him in the foreseeable future. DJGingivitis did make some good points against him, and I was inclined to agree until he voted Beskar.
At this point next round I'd like and hope to see Beskar, yourself, or Sigurd lynched, and I will probably put my vote on the one who has the most support. However, I'd also rather myself get lynched than TinCow (or about half of the other people in the game).
By the way, according to Reenk's (meta)rules voting against him is scummy behavior (I am a townie and they want me dead :beam:. :laugh4: I spent an entire game not only voting for those who voted me, but also keeping an exact list on those who voted against me so I could vote for them later. The next game I reversed it and would only vote for those who voted against me, not voting for anyone who didn't. :smash:
Askthepizzaguy
07-24-2009, 21:09
Now that's unusual. Why would you want yourself to be lynched over an unknown? Unless you know something about TinCow, which would make your sparring with him either very odd or very fake, you should want yourself to survive longer than him, if you're intending to lynch a mafia. Unless I am missing something which I probably am.
At this point next round I'd like and hope to see Beskar, yourself, or Sigurd lynched, and I will probably put my vote on the one who has the most support.
For me, I rather see the Mafia dead, than particular players. Just saying. You can do your own hitlist, but I am only interested in the Mafia.
Reenk Roink
07-24-2009, 21:21
Now that's unusual. Why would you want yourself to be lynched over an unknown? Unless you know something about TinCow, which would make your sparring with him either very odd or very fake, you should want yourself to survive longer than him, if you're intending to lynch a mafia. Unless I am missing something which I probably am.
Tons of reasons. I can't even begin to enumerate all of them.
Had the first three lynches been you, me, and Beskar, I'd definitely say the town was in a better position, even if both of you were innocent (I am). The reason being that players like FactionHeir, Beefy, and even split have no baggage to carry throughout the game. They won't serve at all as distractions (for their early round play - well maybe split a bit).
A huge (probably the biggest) problem with players who rouse suspicions early on in the game and then live, is that they cause so much uncertainty in the endgame. That's when the lynches count, and I highly doubt that players would be lynched like split was in favor of a player with an actual case on them in the end round. Wheras if there continues to remain this player who stays alive and he had suspicion on him early on this can easily cloud judgment.
I think Beskar is the most suspicious now. Should he live however, I will certainly be on the lookout from considering all the suspects and then thinking to myself, gee Beskar had a ton of suspicion early on and he's still living, maybe he's the one. I have found myself doing that before, and I have heard that kind of reasoning from others.
What should be done is judge the case on each suspect. And while the case on an early suspect will probably be weaker than a case on a late round suspect, the disproportionate attention the early one got early in the game has a psychological effect.
For me, I rather see the Mafia dead, than particular players. Just saying. You can do your own hitlist, but I am only interested in the Mafia.
That is obviously a list of players I consider most likely to be Mafia... :rolleyes:
You may be trying to get a rhetorical effect out of that statement but it is plainly vacuous. We can't say Vote: Mafia now can we? :whip:
No, but if you was deemed to be innocent, I wouldn't vote for you, that is the difference. You sound like you would vote for me and others based on grudges, even if I or them were proven to be an innocent. Just saying.
Reenk Roink
07-24-2009, 21:34
No, but if you was deemed to be innocent, I wouldn't vote for you, that is the difference. You sound like you would vote for me and others based on grudges, even if I or them were proven to be an innocent. Just saying.
I wouldn't vote if you were confirmed innocent or very close to it (detective reveal or doctor save - also taking into consideration that you may be another family member or some kind of non mafia bad role). It looks really bad to the rest of the town.
I would however, go ahead and vote for someone I personally thought was innocent. Many reasons for this. Maybe they're the best choice despite not being a good choice. Maybe they're not doing what you want them to do. Maybe they're annoying you or the town.
I like the effort with these rhetorical statements that make me look bad though, it's a good option to go given that your case against me is basically self refuted according to your own standards. :2thumbsup:
I see I do need to explain some things to you. A GH vote on Beskar, keeping all other things equal would have tied the vote. That would have sent it to tiebreaker. That may have allowed gibson, for example, who had explicitly stated in the thread hat he was suspicious of Beskar and Atpg, to vote Beskar (he voted Atpg).
Point of order: it DID go to a tiebreaker. The vote was tied when the time limit expired. Jolt then put it over the edge.
And you bring up split because? I thought your initial position was that there was no way to determine that this round would end up in a tie. Given the voting from before, along with various banter on the matter, it seemed that roughly half of the interested parties were convinced that Beskar was the best lynch while the other half of interested parties were not.
I brought up split to point out there was no way to predict that a bandwagon would start on him. I do see your point about the divergent opinion on Beskar naturally trending towards a two-person race, but your I find your implications that opinion was obviously split 50/50 before GH died to be... questionable. If you were able to figure that out how everyone was going to vote in advance, then you have skills far beyond my own. I didn't even know how *I* was going to vote until halfway through the day phase.
I have noted two habits of yours. One is to misinterpret (intentionally or not) posts. The second is to take an argument into different directions for whatever reason. However, it isn't too hard to notice what you're doing and you will be called out for it. :yes:
It is not possible to intentionally misinterpret something. By definition, the very act of doing it intentionally requires an understanding of what it is in the first place. I believe the word you are looking for is distortion.
As for your second point; really, I hadn't noticed. You'd love arguments at my house. :laugh4:
Fair enough though I believe the reason I gave certainly is well defined enough. Is there a particular reason it deserves the label you give it?
I'm not certain I understand what you mean by label. Are you referring to me calling GH's death an attempt to frame Beskar?
I'd love to see any inferential link that somehow connects this "fact"* to being scummy. Heck, I'd love to see even any kind of correlation that is more significant than other patterns of behavior. Of course, as you stated before, you aren't interested in even beginning to question this dogma and you've never really given any kind of proof that a significant correlation exists.
Wait a second, I thought I was the person who "misinterpreted" things? It's not fair for you to do it!
As I previously stated in detail (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2295533&postcount=266), I do not believe changes in behavior make someone "scummy." I simply believe they warrant further examination of that person.
* In fact, I'll bet you two Atpg cookies that you will have a heck of a time defining my behavior and than pointing to the ways that it changes. You've already admitted as much that you haven't exactly played too much with me, and your lack of knowledge on especially my playstyle in the early days of Mafia here at the org is quite evident.
Just in case you're curious, my behavior here bears striking resemblance in two major games: Interficio quod Scrupulosa and Mafia VI. Not only that but in many other games I have decidedly acted this way in parts of many other games.
You believe it is odd for me to go so tenaciously after someone? This is most likely because you have imperfect knowledge of my play style.
I have nowhere near enough time to read all the games that were played before I started participating in the gameroom. All I can do is work off of what I know, and what I know begins with Capo II. Based on that history, you appear to be acting odd to me. You will excuse me if I find your own statements about whether you are behaving normally or not to be less than credible evidence.
However, since apparently you are an expert at this game and I am doing things incorrectly, I would greatly appreciate your guidance on how exactly I should be playing. What methods should I be using to detect mafioso?
I like the effort with these rhetorical statements that make me look bad though, it's a good option to go given that your case against me is basically self refuted according to your own standards. :2thumbsup:
Using your argument "I am innocent, so I go after those who vote for me" think of what happened, but you was me, and I was you.
You say to some one (while an innocent), finding their behaviour suspicious, then they start posting against you and vote against you, not making real arguments, trying their best to lynch you, just because you said they acted scummy when they did.
What would you think? That you possibly caught the Mafia, and they are trying their hardest to get you lynched because you called them out? That is exactly what I thought due to your behaviour. You condemned yourself by your purely going after me, because I called you out on an obvious scummy activity. If you actually came up with a reason then left it alone, I would have most likely dropped it, but since you carried on attacking me like a dog, because I called you out (and I am an innocent) you look hell of a scummy.
So even by your own standards, you would arguably be the prime lynch target. You have to remember, you have to put yourself in other peoples shoes, not just be in your own.
Reenk Roink
07-24-2009, 22:23
I brought up split to point out there was no way to predict that a bandwagon would start on him. I do see your point about the divergent opinion on Beskar naturally trending towards a two-person race, but your I find your implications that opinion was obviously split 50/50 before GH died to be... questionable. If you were able to figure that out how everyone was going to vote in advance, then you have skills far beyond my own. I didn't even know how *I* was going to vote until halfway through the day phase.
This is either a misrepresentation or intentional distortion of my post. I don't know how you could get "obviously split 50/50" from "roughly half" but my English ain't as good as yours.
Well yeah. I did some extrapolation to get the 50/50 part. Yes, not even I (shocking really but I am limited in some small ways) knew that it would be exactly 50/50. I thought it would be close but Beskar would be lynched by a couple of votes.
It is not possible to intentionally misinterpret something. By definition, the very act of doing it intentionally requires an understanding of what it is in the first place. I believe the word you are looking for is distortion.
:oops:
I'm not certain I understand what you mean by label. Are you referring to me calling GH's death an attempt to frame Beskar?
Your label refers to the use of the word amorphous.
Wait a second, I thought I was the person who "misinterpreted" things? It's not fair for you to do it!
As I previously stated in detail (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2295533&postcount=266), I do not believe changes in behavior make someone "scummy." I simply believe they warrant further examination of that person.
I admit, even I of all people sometimes fall into this trap. :shocked:
However, I'm probably not falling into it here. Essentially, I was not
First. what did you mean by this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2295331&postcount=245)?
Having observed a fair number of mafia games, I have concluded that it is the single most reliable method of spotting mafioso.
I'll give you a direct insight into my reasoning (prepare to be enlightened :lightbulb:):
Your first sentence of: "No need, I will likely be placing it on you next round."
From this I gather that you are intending (in some manner with a certain though probably not absolute conviction to vote for me).
Is it a reasonable inference that given the nature of the game you would vote for the person you thought was the most scummy? This is what I gathered from some of your posts in this very thread (about split and Beskar)?
If so, my interpretation of this statement is that you will vote for me because you think I am the most scummy at this point in the game? If this is incorrect let me know, I then have some follow up material.
Then there are these two sentences: "You still haven't explained your change in play style. You are not remotely acting like yourself."
Given the proximity to the first sentence, these two seem like a justification of the intention to vote for me.
If they are not and rather just unrelated thoughts please do two things:
1) Pardon me :sweatdrop:
2) Try to separate unrelated thoughts a bit better :yes:
If these are reasons for the intention to vote for me, then let us examine the content of these reasons.
The first of these two states that I have not done something, namely, explain something. The thing I have not explained is my change in playstyle. The second is an assertion that I am not acting like myself. In other words, I have changed behavior this game.
So if these are your reasons for your intention to vote against me, it is because I have changed my behavior this game. I came to this conclusion based on the proximity of these sentences and earlier statements by you on behavior change. Certainly, there were many ways for me to err, and so next time, if I am confused by your lack of absolutely precise language, I will first run it by you.
Now then, if I did misinterpret or intentionally distort your statement, you have already gotten me for it. Will you now be as courteous enough to actually make clear what you meant by it as I did for you when you misinterpreted or intentionally distorted my statements? Thank you. :bow:
In any case, "I simply believe they warrant further examination of that person" is certainly not your simple belief as I have shown above with another post on the same matter. Maybe you forgot what you believed? Maybe you are lying?
I have nowhere near enough time to read all the games that were played before I started participating in the gameroom. All I can do is work off of what I know, and what I know begins with Capo II. Based on that history, you appear to be acting odd to me. You will excuse me if I find your own statements about whether you are behaving normally or not to be less than credible evidence.
Well, I even pointed you to the games in question. I didn't make a whole lot of posts to deal with anyway.
I sympathize with your limitations, but is it really an excuse for you to vote against me because I have changed my behavior admitting that you are only going by a limited sample of my play? You're even not accepting my invitation to actually check out further evidence.
You seem to be stating that although you are aware of your limited sample into my gameplay, you will still draw out the conclusion from that unrepresentative sample. Ok then... :sad:
However, since apparently you are an expert at this game and I am doing things incorrectly, I would greatly appreciate your guidance on how exactly I should be playing. What methods should I be using to detect mafioso?
Once again this is a misrepresentation or intentional distortion or false attribution, but I don't want you to feel too badly so I'll indulge you and give you 1 point.
Do not fret as admitting this is the first step to your reformation. Your task is simple: I'll tell you who to vote for and you do it. Leave the hard work to me.
:dizzy2:
With all of these long posts, you guys are making it difficult to keep up with the thread, here! :laugh4:
Although the discussion is certainly interesting. Personally, I see that TinCow is acting much more abrasively than usual for mafia games... and because this argument has bloomed into something taking up two or three pages at least, I think inevitably tomorrow's lynch is going to wind up between Reenk and TinCow. I think that both have to be lynched... my opinion is that one of them is mafia.
We won't have to worry about ATPG or Beskar being lynched, because they'll both be left in the dust by this feud of sorts... and I'm starting to wonder if they might really have a connection through roles, whether mafia or not. We have to keep our eyes on both of them, too.
Askthepizzaguy
07-24-2009, 22:58
I think that both have to be lynched... my opinion is that one of them is mafia.
Why do you feel that one of them must be mafia?
If I were smart, and that's a big hypothetical, I would fade EASILY into the background of this whole mess and not garner attention on myself. There's just no reason to gain suspicion on oneself so early, especially with the murders coming in so slowly. I really have to reiterate the wasp nest and stick theory... if you're allergic to being lynched, why would you smack a bunch of townies in the face? Reenk is poking progressively more people in the eye, which eventually leads to people either thinking he is scum or wanting him eliminated anyway. TinCow doesn't have to put himself into the spotlight by challenging his behavior, yet he does.
Meh. I'll flip a coin between a lurker or someone who is trying too hard to "blend in", myself.
Your label refers to the use of the word amorphous.
I meant it exactly as it means. The reasons you gave were amorphous (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/amorphous).
I admit, even I of all people sometimes fall into this trap. :shocked:
However, I'm probably not falling into it here. Essentially, I was not
First. what did you mean by this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2295331&postcount=245)?
It's a trend I've noticed in studying Sasaki. So far, my main failing in mafia games has been in detecting mafioso. Being a mafioso I can manage just fine, but since probability dictates I don't get that job very often, improving my townie game is important to me. In the games I have played, Sasaki has far and away been the person who has been best at spotting mafioso based on nothing more than in-thread behavior. I have specifically asked him about his methods before, and he has stated that it is done by looking for changes in character that are both macro and micro in nature (my own words, not his). On a macro level, changes in behavior between games. On a micro level, contradictions in behavior and arguments within a single game. This is what I have been trying to do for my last several games.
I'll give you a direct insight into my reasoning (prepare to be enlightened :lightbulb:):
... (cut for brevity)
Now then, if I did misinterpret or intentionally distort your statement, you have already gotten me for it. Will you now be as courteous enough to actually make clear what you meant by it as I did for you when you misinterpreted or intentionally distorted my statements? Thank you. :bow:
You did not misinterpret, everything you said in the above (abbreviated) quote is what I meant.
In any case, "I simply believe they warrant further examination of that person" is certainly not your simple belief as I have shown above with another post on the same matter. Maybe you forgot what you believed? Maybe you are lying?
The answer is neither. I have found that there are two methods of putting pressure on people in mafia games. The first is dialog. The second is voting. For me, voting is an escalation of pressure that I use when I am not satisfied with the results of the dialog. In your case, at this moment I feel that more pressure is warranted on you and discussion is not doing it. I therefore intend to vote for you next round to increase the pressure. I used the word "likely" because I have no way of knowing what will happen between now and then. It is entirely possible that something else could arise that would make me suspect someone else more than you. Thus, the vote is currently likely, but not certain.
Well, I even pointed you to the games in question. I didn't make a whole lot of posts to deal with anyway.
I sympathize with your limitations, but is it really an excuse for you to vote against me because I have changed my behavior admitting that you are only going by a limited sample of my play? You're even not accepting my invitation to actually check out further evidence.
You seem to be stating that although you are aware of your limited sample into my gameplay, you will still draw out the conclusion from that unrepresentative sample. Ok then... :sad:
In addition to the time constraints, there is no need for me to do it in this situation. If I am wrong, others with knowledge of your play style will point it out to me. I am fond of shortcuts that save me from reading through masses of old posts.
Why do you feel that one of them must be mafia?
If I were smart, and that's a big hypothetical, I would fade EASILY into the background of this whole mess and not garner attention on myself. There's just no reason to gain suspicion on oneself so early, especially with the murders coming in so slowly. I really have to reiterate the wasp nest and stick theory... if you're allergic to being lynched, why would you smack a bunch of townies in the face? Reenk is poking progressively more people in the eye, which eventually leads to people either thinking he is scum or wanting him eliminated anyway. TinCow doesn't have to put himself into the spotlight by challenging his behavior, yet he does.
Meh. I'll flip a coin between a lurker or someone who is trying too hard to "blend in", myself.
Then I'll say it again, myself.
WIFOM. Lots of WIFOM. If one of them happens to be mafia, they are getting exactly the kind of response they want from you: "He is putting himself in danger of lynch, therefore he must not be mafia".
I'll point to you and Reenk in The Prometheus.
I'll point to you and myself in Dark Descent.
It's not uncommon for mafia to be actively putting themselves in the spotlight, because the general consensus is that the mafia are going to be the lurkers, or those who blend in. That's why the three players who we've lynched so far have not been especially attention-demanding.
I'm not saying that the mafia couldn't be lurkers, but we can't just rule someone out because they are deliberately putting themselves in danger.
TinCow is acting much more abrasively than usual for mafia games
If this is the case, I truly do apologize. My wife has been out of town on business for a week and a half and she's not due back until well into next week. I'm fond of her, and hanging around the house all alone for this long is making me a little grumpy. I shall endeavor to solve the problem by drinking more wine until she returns. :2thumbsup:
Reenk Roink
07-24-2009, 23:16
I meant it exactly as it means. The reasons you gave were amorphous (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/amorphous).
I think it's reasonable to add a little more value to a notion that Beskar killed GH to take off someone who would be reasonably expected to vote for him again and wasn't looking like lynchbait
I honestly don't see how this is not a well defined explication of a possible explanation of GH's murder. It may not be convincing (you might say he was framed to make it seem like the above was done, which I also agree is a good explanation or the explanation of a double frame).
The question becomes how do we lend preference to these explanations. Many would point to Occams Razor, which I won't.
However, I will give preference to that explanation due to the pressure that was clearly on Beskar at that time, and while it may be looking at things in retrospect, the choice of killing GH was amazingly beneficial to Beskar this past round.
Is there a similar reason to prefer the WIFOM frame explanation?
Is there a similar reason to prefer the WIFOM frame explanation?
It's what I would do, therefore it's what occurred to me first. I understand it's a personal perception thing, which is why I think this is just something we disagree on.
If this is the case, I truly do apologize. My wife has been out of town on business for a week and a half and she's not due back until well into next week. I'm fond of her, and hanging around the house all alone for this long is making me a little grumpy. I shall endeavor to solve the problem by drinking more wine until she returns. :2thumbsup:
It wasn't necessarily a bad thing, if that's how you took it.
I just meant to note a change in behavior- you do seem to be more aggressively pressuring other players than in the previous games I've played with you; looking at your last few posts, I realize this is probably intentional. It reminds me somewhat of ATPG and his walls of text in his earlier games (but with substantially less "wall" in the text, of course).
gibsonsg91921
07-24-2009, 23:40
Right now my top suspicions are TinCow, Reenk, ATPG, and Beskar.
I wouldn't put it past TinCow to have staged an argument with Reenk right now to make it look like they aren't in-game buds.
Oh well. I'm so bad at this game.
A Very Super Market
07-24-2009, 23:53
Go to sleep, crazy people.
Askthepizzaguy
07-24-2009, 23:54
Then I'll say it again, myself.
WIFOM. Lots of WIFOM. If one of them happens to be mafia, they are getting exactly the kind of response they want from you: "He is putting himself in danger of lynch, therefore he must not be mafia".
I'll point to you and Reenk in The Prometheus.
I'll point to you and myself in Dark Descent.
It's not uncommon for mafia to be actively putting themselves in the spotlight, because the general consensus is that the mafia are going to be the lurkers, or those who blend in. That's why the three players who we've lynched so far have not been especially attention-demanding.
I'm not saying that the mafia couldn't be lurkers, but we can't just rule someone out because they are deliberately putting themselves in danger.If they manage to survive for a while and it's clear they aren't going to be murdered, I'll review their activity and make a decision based on their post behavior. I can't do that with people who don't post much; and it does seem to be the case that mafia will lurk in situations where it is easy to do so, most of the time. But there's enough room for both of our approaches, because neither is fail-safe.
As for me and Reenk in Prometheus; it got my butt lynched pretty quick, and to be honest, Reenk surviving for that long after claiming detective was a serious clue. I know it's biased for me to say so, as I was mafia, but... detective claims seriously have to mean death in all cases. It's about 50/50 that the "detective" is actually mafia. Only Reenk and Khaan could make such a claim plausible, even after a couple night phases where he didn't die.
@AVSM- It's 6:53PM my time. You go to sleep! :laugh4:
However, I will give preference to that explanation due to the pressure that was clearly on Beskar at that time, and while it may be looking at things in retrospect, the choice of killing GH was amazingly beneficial to Beskar this past round.
As being in the know (the know that I am not the Mafia and that I didn't kill GH), my retrospect is completely different to yours. You are accusing it of being "Amazing Beneficial to Beskar", I will tell you now, it was "Amazing Detrimental to Beskar". If let's say, AskthePizzaGuy was lynched, as he is apparently my 'scumbuddy' his death and proven innocence would have vindicated me. So if I was the Mafia, killing Pizza would have been top-priority. If lets say, Caius was lynched (no connections with him claimed), I still would have had a far better chance of survival, as your argument would have still been "Beskar is scummy as he accused me" opposed to actually giving you any weight.
The situation was actually perfect for the Mafia, the Mafia knew by lynching some-one like GeneralHankerchief, that you would accuse me, that I would know I was framed, and possibly accuse you, while they are sniggling to themselves, completely out of harms way.
A Very Super Market
07-25-2009, 00:00
What is that number? All I know is that the sun went down, and it's dark. Go to sleep, so I can strangle you.
Er---.
I mean.... rest.
No results? Weird. I thought the round was ended a few hours ago. Just came home from work and thought I got night killed.
Tratorix
07-25-2009, 22:12
No results? Weird. I thought the round was ended a few hours ago. Just came home from work and thought I got night killed.
Rounds end whenever the Great Khaan says they end. :whip:
seireikhaan
07-25-2009, 23:54
Shinzei Khaan laid outside his tent, gazing at the crescent moon. He was having difficulty sleeping as of late. That the camp was infiltrated by enemy agents so soon after Jenghiz departed was troubling. That he was having so much difficulty catching them was even more ominous. Jenghiz wasn't tolerant towards failure, and if he came back to his camp only to find it one third of the size he left it.... Well, let's just say it would be bad news for ol' Shinzei. On the other hand, perhaps they had executed the last one.
"Give me a sign!" he begged of the starry heavens. "Tell me I've done right! Tell me the spies are gone!" The night sky seemed at first indifferent of his request. Shinzei sighed, and decided it was time to get back into his tent for the night. As he picked himself up, he noticed something bright in his peripheral vision. He looked back skyward. An angry, blue fireball strode across the heavens at astonishing speed. Its twin tails flared out spectacularly. Shinzei scampered back into his tent. "This is not the sign I wished for!" he muttered to to himself. "I needed a good omen, not a disaster!"
My previous night of good sleep would prove elusive once more. I was quite rudely awakened during the night multiple times by tribesmen who seemed to be milling about in the night. I ignored it for the time being, desperate for every wink of sleep that I could obtain. When the time came for me to be up and going, I felt groggy and irritated. What could have been going on that was so fascinating?! I stumbled out the tent, heading towards the council grounds once more. It seemed a rather large number of tribesmen were in attendance, perhaps every member of the camp. All I could see, including Shinzei, seemed exceedingly agitated. My irritation began to warp into dread. What could have happened that caused such emotion from the savages? I made my way to the side of Shinzei, and before the council could be started, I asked him how many had been killed during the night, assuming the number must be strikingly large. He replied that nobody had been found dead. I was stunned. I asked him what had happened that caused the entire camp to be so on edge. He gave me a curious look, as though I was an imbecile for not knowing. He informed me the heavens opened up that night with an ominous portent, a great fireball which scorched the heavens themselves. I now understood why the council was being held; such omens could not be ignored. The matter at hand was now more serious than ever, and it was important that we prevent the foretold disaster upon this camp.
-- The Record of Zhang Qian
Alive: 19
Askthepizzaguy
A Very Super Market
Beskar
Caius
Chaotix
Death is Yonder
DJGingivtis
Gibsonsg91921
Ichigo
Jolt
Khazaar
Lord Winter
pevergreen
Reenk Roink
Sigurd
TinCow
Tratorix
White_eyes:D
YLC
Dead: 3
Yaropolk (N1)
Atheotes (N2)
GeneralHankerchief (N3)
Lynched: 1
FactionHeir (D1)
Beefy (D2)
Splitpersonality (D3)
WoK'd: 0
THIS DAY PHASE WILL LAST 36 HOURS. PLEASE KEEP THE TALLY!
A Very Super Market
07-26-2009, 00:09
No kills? Interesting.
That is... odd. I can't think of any reason to skip kills this early in a game except for failure to submit PMs. Worth noting the comet had two tails. Is that a hint that both mafioso are still alive? Gonna eat my hat on this one, because this pretty much clears Reenk in my mind. I simply don't think he'd skip a kill at this phase of the game, and he's not the type to forget to submit orders. I think we need to be looking at the lurkers.
Askthepizzaguy
07-26-2009, 01:12
There's only been one kill per night so far... roleblocking, perhaps?
I'd also consider the possibility of how convincing it would be to not kill, thus putting the suspicion on the inactive players. That would be the perfect way to escape being lynched for several rounds.
White_eyes:D
07-26-2009, 01:20
I have been thinking....could it be that they are charging up there kills??:juggle2:
I find it unlikely, that a Role blocker could have been blocking the same guy for three nights in a row...:juggle2:
I find it unlikely, that a Role blocker could have been blocking the same guy for three nights in a row...:juggle2:
LOL, that would actually be highly hilarious.
Mafia: *gets another failed PM* "STOP ROLEBLOCKIJNG ME!!!! :furious3::furious3::furious3::furious3:"
Roleblocker: lulz
White_eyes:D
07-26-2009, 01:29
YLC been blocking you again? Maybe you really are Mafia this time???:clown:
Otherwise, I can't see a roleblocker blocking someone for three night phases...nobody has been really scumming...:juggle2: Other then maybe Beskar:laugh4: (but you always are...:shame:)
Only people I could think of having the Brass ones to pull this off would be...
Reenk
ATPG
TinCow (I admit I have never seen him as Mafia yet...)
Beskar (he is always suspicious:smash:)
Askthepizzaguy
07-26-2009, 01:33
Uh, if I had roleblocked someone for 3 nights and there was only 1 murder each night, I'd certainly tell someone. Like, everyone. I'd say "hi everyone maybe you should lynch this person because you know, 3 nights in a row..."
what I meant was... one murder, that murderer got roleblocked?
White_eyes:D
07-26-2009, 01:40
It is weird how no one claimed the role....:inquisitive:
which leaves that the Mafia are still trying to figure out if there is one.....watch, we well get a fake reveal come tomorrow...:wall:
If anyone claims....we should lynch the guy who they have been blocking....but we should also lynch the roleblocker just to be sure, since he well be killed during the night anyway and if not he is scum...:smash:
Only other thing I can think of...is that they are lurkers:shrug:
Edit:of course the power-up theory could be true:book:
Death is yonder
07-26-2009, 02:28
To begin with, why only 1 kill a night?
Weren't there two mafia to begin with?
Now there are 0 kills, its probably the mafia's fault or the roleblocker, we probably haven't lynched them yet.
That the camp was infiltrated by enemy agents so soon after Jenghiz departed was troubling. That he was having so much difficulty catching them was even more ominous.
On the other hand, perhaps they had executed the last one. ??
Does that mean there are one left?
Worth noting the comet had two tails.
I agree,
"I needed a good omen, not a disaster!"
I think the write up is pretty much begging for us to realize that there are still two mafia.
:bow:
Reenk Roink
07-26-2009, 02:37
My thoughts on everything:
It's doubtful that the 1 kill per night was due to a roleblocker. The most likely explanations off the top of my head for that are that the roleblocker isn't allowed to say anything about his role/actions, or maybe he doesn't realize that he is being effective, or he doesn't want to reveal for whatever reason (maybe he doesn't want to expose himself). All of those seem incredibly far fetched though. :laugh4:
That being said, it is a possibility there was a roleblock just tonight, and that ain't as far fetched. Let's wait and see what happens on that route...
As to why there has only been 1 kill in the previous rounds, maybe it's just the way it goes. It wouldn't be the first time a group of Mafia has been limited to 1 kill per night. Or maybe the Mafia is trying to fake us out as mentioned before.
Lastly for the reasons why there wasn't a kill, I can only give the obvious. Either split was Mafia or the Mafia wanted us to think split was Mafia. I don't like the former because I never thought split was Mafia. Perhaps someone failed to send an order in, the night did last long, maybe khaan waited and waited. I like this last explanation the best.
I think it's unlikely Beskar would not kill someone every night. He is a very active player and he even questioned the notion of not killing earlier and implied that it didn't make sense to him.
So for now, the Beskar-Atpg guilt thing will take a backseat to my other main suspect Sigurd. I can understand how Sigurd would perhaps not be able to send in an order and I can also see him purposely faking us out in this way. At least more so than Beskar-Atpg.
Since all of you seem to be too sissy to vote :clown:, I'll kick it off again: Vote: Sigurd
Sigurd: 1 (Reenk Roink)
P.S: TinCow, I have missed many a order in these games. My time available for these games varies greatly by day and there have been certain stretches where I simply have not been able (or willing) to bother with Mafia. I'll give you this though, my involvement in this game is a lot higher than most, as I find myself quite involved and somewhat am enjoying the playstyle.
Askthepizzaguy
07-26-2009, 02:55
Vote: pevergreen
I seem to recall in the past, pever had a nasty habit of forgetting to send in his night actions. I also am not sure how seriously he's been taking these games recently. But that's just an opinion based on observations.
As Reenk has already gotten the ball rolling on Sigurd, I will support him. Despite multiple requests previously, Sigurd did not respond to questions when prompted. Time to start talking.
Vote: Sigurd
Comets are often white, and the two tails clearly means something which is plural, which can be eyes.
Vote: White_Eyes :D
Askthepizzaguy
07-26-2009, 03:06
That... actually makes sense. That's better than my theory.
unvote, vote: White_Eyes:D
Tally:
Sigurd: 2 (Reenk Roink, TinCow)
WhiteEyes: 2 (Jolt, Askthepizzaguy)
*sets up stand*
Come one come all! Right here, do I have one of the rarest commodities - a vote, that can double your own vote! Few, in fact no votes today, can do that. However, many a merchant will sell you this same said vote for ridiculous prices - however, not I! I will sell it to you dirt cheap, and if you bid within the next 6 hours, your vote will not only be doubled today, but doubled the next day as well! Quadruple the voting power!
Hurry, offer good while supplies lasts.
A Very Super Market
07-26-2009, 03:08
And better than the Sigurd theory? Seriously? A host giving away the mafia with silly clues?
Vote: Sigurd
Death is yonder
07-26-2009, 03:12
The comet in particularly is blue.
An angry, blue fireball strode across the heavens at astonishing speed.
I won't join the Sigurd bandwagon, I think he should have a chance to respond first.
Difference between Tincow's pressure vote and the massive bandwagon building.
:bow:
YLC, vote for White_Eyes:D, I will buy your limited offer.
The reasons for this vote? it is a revenge vote because he is being a ninkenpoop and first-round voting me in pretty much every game and it is annoying.
Vote: White_Eyes:D
Since all of you seem to be too sissy to vote :clown:, I'll kick it off again: Vote: Sigurd
:laugh4:
What happened to "abstaining, courteously"? :clown:
Vote: YLC
You must have some sort of a role. Although I don't believe it's mafia... we are looking for a roleblocker. Do you have any abilities we should know about, or do you know of anyone else with an ability? How much does knowledge sell for, these days?
Reenk Roink
07-26-2009, 03:36
*sets up stand*
Come one come all! Right here, do I have one of the rarest commodities - a vote, that can double your own vote! Few, in fact no votes today, can do that. However, many a merchant will sell you this same said vote for ridiculous prices - however, not I! I will sell it to you dirt cheap, and if you bid within the next 6 hours, your vote will not only be doubled today, but doubled the next day as well! Quadruple the voting power!
Hurry, offer good while supplies lasts.
Good sir, I know that Beskar has made an offer to purchase your vote, but you already know of his attempts at shady dealing before. I on the other hand am a tenured customer who has always stood up for your trade. If you would consider my request to sell me your vote and vote for Sigurd despite my offer coming later I would be very grateful (though I completely understand if you choose not to). After all, what I am using your product for is for a much more beneficial purpose to the whole community than what behind the scenes Beskar is. :smash:
White_eyes:D
07-26-2009, 03:36
Comets are often white, and the two tails clearly means something which is plural, which can be eyes.
Vote: White_Eyes :D
Your like the new Ares/Thermal Mercury...."His eyes are as white as a sheet":rolleyes: Vote:Jolt
Edit: I mean you think Khaan would make such a oblivious clue?:laugh4:
YLC, vote for White_Eyes:D, I will buy your limited offer.
The reasons for this vote? it is a revenge vote because he is being a ninkenpoop and first-round voting me in pretty much every game and it is annoying. (for example, see MGS game and others)
Vote: White_Eyes:D
You attempted to subvert my normal method of business by trying to convince me to sell to you behind close doors.
I am capable of refusing business to anyone I wish.
Askthepizzaguy
07-26-2009, 03:51
Edit: I mean you think Khaan would make such a oblivious clue?:laugh4:
Come now, I've heard stranger theories today. For example:
Only people I could think of having the Brass ones to pull this off would be...
Reenk
ATPG
TinCow (I admit I have never seen him as Mafia yet...)
Beskar (he is always suspicious)
You attempted to subvert my normal method of business by trying to convince me to sell to you behind close doors.
I am capable of refusing business to anyone I wish.
No, I didn't, I only offered to take up your service. All you had to do was simply say "Sure, post it in the thread", however, instead of that, you didn't reply then you slandered my good name in public, trying to say I was going behind peoples back, which is an false accusation.
Making an enquiry if you would be interested is not the same as deceit, I was just making sure you wouldn't refuse the request making me look silly in public, so I asked in private first if you would.
Good sir, I know that Beskar has made an offer to purchase your vote, but you already know of his attempts at shady dealing before. I on the other hand am a tenured customer who has always stood up for your trade. If you would consider my request to sell me your vote and vote for Sigurd despite my offer coming later I would be very grateful (though I completely understand if you choose not to). After all, what I am using your product for is for a much more beneficial purpose to the whole community than what behind the scenes Beskar is. :smash:
Good sir, your coin is always good here.
Vote:Beskar
Good sir, your coin is always good here.
Vote:Beskar
You are a bad businessman, you messed up your order
f you would consider my request to sell me your vote and vote for Sigurd despite my offer coming later I would be very grateful
That is now three apologises you owe. 2 to me and 1 to Reenk Roink.
1) For the false accusation.
2) For falsely voting for me.
3) Not getting Reenk Roink the order he asked for.
No, I didn't, I only offered to take up your service. All you had to do was simply say "Sure, post it in the thread", however, instead of that, you didn't reply then you slandered my good name in public, trying to say I was going behind peoples back, which is an false accusation.
Making an enquiry if you would be interested is not the same as deceit, I was just making sure you wouldn't refuse the request making me look silly in public, so I asked in private first if you would.
You will have to forgive me, but if what you say is true, that makes you only a craven coward.
If what you say is false, it is because you had ulterior motive, such as slandering mine and that of my business, or of trying to sway the merchant, I, behind close doors.
Either way sir, you are neither honest, with yourself or with others, and do you have a spine.
White_eyes:D
07-26-2009, 03:59
But Khaan never gives clues....:laugh4: and you guys would have the stones to do it...:smash:
Well....I guess I should keep going like any good townie but I am very tempted to get myself lynched to prove you wrong....(It's what I do when someone comes up with a theory, so bad I feel like my eyes hurt just looking at it:wall:)
Askthepizzaguy
07-26-2009, 03:59
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
I think a refund is in order.
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
I think a refund is in order.
YLC is the proud owner of Murgo's Big Book of Trading.
Reenk Roink
07-26-2009, 04:15
You are a bad businessman, you messed up your order
That is now three apologises you owe. 2 to me and 1 to Reenk Roink.
1) For the false accusation.
2) For falsely voting for me.
3) Not getting Reenk Roink the order he asked for.
He owes me no apology. If YLC wishes to sell me his vote and vote for Sigurd than it is all up to him. It is his vote and he may want to use it anyway he wants. In fact, I'm just happy YLC is not going to sell to you and vote for White eyes which continues the rash of ridiculous lynches in my view.
Oh dear...so caught up was I in my previous dealings, that I forgot to change the delivery address :sweatdrop:
Unvote: Vote: Sigurd
Askthepizzaguy
07-26-2009, 04:35
Meh. Maybe I am just eager to lynch White_Eyes because of things like... Beskar is always lynch bait, so let's lynch him.... voting for Beefy, then voting for people who voted for Beefy because of course Beefy was innocent... Unexplained theories regarding who would have the cojones not to kill anyone. And so on.
unvote: White_Eyes
vote: Ichigo
You should be caught up now. Let's have you participate, please.
DJGingivitis
07-26-2009, 04:39
For previous reasons and the fact that Tin Cow seems intelligent enough to possible purposely not send in his orders to confuse everyone and to suggest we focus on the lurkers.
Vote: Tin Cow
For previous reasons and the fact that Tin Cow seems intelligent enough to possible purposely not send in his orders to confuse everyone and to suggest we focus on the lurkers.
Vote: Tin Cow
:inquisitive:
Sorry, does noone else seem intelligent enough to skip a kill and confuse people? And what exactly are the "previous reasons"?
These previous reasons may be valid; no matter. What you seem to be doing here is adding flawed logic to make your own vote seem more genuine and reasonable. You could have picked any other person who's shown a semblance of cleverness in this thread and replaced TinCow with him, and this vote would still have that "looks reasonable, glance over it" quality to it that it does now.
Unless your logic is really this twisted, then this is an engineered blend-in mafia vote. It just reeks of scum.
Unvote, Vote: DJGinjivtis
A Very Super Market
07-26-2009, 05:02
It sounds like you're insulted :clown: :bobby2:
DJGingivitis
07-26-2009, 05:09
:inquisitive:
Sorry, does noone else seem intelligent enough to skip a kill and confuse people? And what exactly are the "previous reasons"?
These previous reasons may be valid; no matter. What you seem to be doing here is adding flawed logic to make your own vote seem more genuine and reasonable. You could have picked any other person who's shown a semblance of cleverness in this thread and replaced TinCow with him, and this vote would still have that "looks reasonable, glance over it" quality to it that it does now.
Unless your logic is really this twisted, then this is an engineered blend-in mafia vote. It just reeks of scum.
Unvote, Vote: DJGinjivtis
But Tin Cow has been using this tactic throughout the whole game but no one has really notice/pointed it out because they are too busy with Beskar and RR and voting out people who aren't doing anything. Does no one else find this suspicious that he is drawing attention to them and then even still when the heat gets to hot on these people he then tries and gets people to focus on other people. He is constantly bringing up someone new that seems suspicious. Yet no one is thinking about him. Why does he just want to try and get votes for everyone? Maybe because he is trying to kill everyone. I am sorry if I insulted you by saying that was intelligent, it came out wrong, not only did it insult others but him as well. I meant to say that Tin Cow seems to have a knack for the games and that he knows what tactics will working when and when to use certain maneuvers to either draw or move attention to. He is the Sun Tzu of Mafia.
Also you spelled my name wrong.
gibsonsg91921
07-26-2009, 05:16
Chaotix, even I have gotten over YLC. It seems to be more of his style than scumminess.
Vote: Chaotix
Because YLC is the obvious cop-out vote.
Death is yonder
07-26-2009, 05:19
Tactics are just WIFOM... there is no 100% sure win strategy to a mafia game.
The point is moot if one is discussing who would be the ballsiest mafia to use the ballsiest strategy, much less who is capable of initiating a "tactic"
Its all really just WIFOM...
@Gibson, he changed it to DJGingivitis
He is constantly bringing up someone new that seems suspicious. Yet no one is thinking about him. Why does he just want to try and get votes for everyone?
I think you'll find that the only people I've argued against in any manner have been YLC, Beskar, Reenk, and Sigurd. And Sigurd isn't someone new, I've been mentioning him for a couple days now. It seems you're exaggerating just a slight bit.
DJGingivitis
07-26-2009, 05:45
Yes you have been mentioning him but only until today has he become anything special. To my immediate knowledge he has not been getting a lot of votes, so my reasoning still holds. My reasoning is that you use someone to draw attention and then move onto the next person. So I am not exaggerating, Sigurd just is(was) the next person you planned on drawing attention to.
Tratorix
07-26-2009, 07:04
Yes you have been mentioning him but only until today has he become anything special. To my immediate knowledge he has not been getting a lot of votes, so my reasoning still holds. My reasoning is that you use someone to draw attention and then move onto the next person. So I am not exaggerating, Sigurd just is(was) the next person you planned on drawing attention to.
Sorry, that reasoning doesn't hold up. The only person TinCow has really drawn attention to is Sigurd. ATPG, Beskar and Reenk all drew attention to each other with their little feud. Your last few posts feel very scummy to me.
Vote: DJGingivtis
DJGingivitis
07-26-2009, 07:31
Sorry, that reasoning doesn't hold up. The only person TinCow has really drawn attention to is Sigurd. ATPG, Beskar and Reenk all drew attention to each other with their little feud. Your last few posts feel very scummy to me.
Vote: DJGingivtis
Not to sound like a dbag but have you looked at the past 5-8 pages? It has been Beskar and RR defending themselves with ATPG and Tin Cow also contributing to the accusations and such. Tin Cow has been going after a lot of people. He maybe not him calling them out specifically but he has contributed to the accusations against them. He is being the ultimate Devil's Advocate. He is just making it so that everyone is mafia except for himself. Why is it that no one wants to see his avoidance of attention but at the same time not avoiding it by lurking?
DJGingivtis- 2 (Tratorix, Chaotix)
Chaotix-1 (gibsong91921)
Tin Cow-1 (DJGingivtis)
Ichigo-1 (ATPG)
Sigurd-3 (YLC, Tin Cow, AVSM)
White_Eyes :D-2 (Jolt, Beskar)
Jolt-1 (White_Eyes :D)
Askthepizzaguy
07-26-2009, 07:55
DJGingivtis- 2 (Tratorix, Chaotix)
Chaotix-1 (gibsong91921)
Tin Cow-1 (DJGingivtis)
Ichigo-1 (ATPG)
Sigurd-3 (YLC, Tin Cow, AVSM)
White_Eyes :D-2 (Jolt, Beskar)
Jolt-1 (White_Eyes :D)
Where is the Reenkster in this tally?
DJGingivitis
07-26-2009, 07:58
DJGingivtis- 2 (Tratorix, Chaotix)
Chaotix-1 (gibsong91921)
Tin Cow-1 (DJGingivtis)
Ichigo-1 (ATPG)
Sigurd-4 (YLC, Tin Cow, AVSM, Reenk Roink)
White_Eyes :D-2 (Jolt, Beskar)
Jolt-1 (White_Eyes :D)
As you posted I was double checking and saw it. I scrolled over it due to it being in the middle of his post and his tally was not bold. Fixed now.
Tratorix
07-26-2009, 08:10
Not to sound like a dbag but have you looked at the past 5-8 pages? It has been Beskar and RR defending themselves with ATPG and Tin Cow also contributing to the accusations and such. Tin Cow has been going after a lot of people. He maybe not him calling them out specifically but he has contributed to the accusations against them. He is being the ultimate Devil's Advocate. He is just making it so that everyone is mafia except for himself. Why is it that no one wants to see his avoidance of attention but at the same time not avoiding it by lurking?
How is he avoiding attention? Should he be voting for himself, just to let us know he could be guilty? I'm confused as to how you believe TinCow going after people is a bad thing. It forces others to post as well and stimulates discussion. This is a good thing. Going after people who have been contributing more than you because they have been contributing is a bad thing.
pevergreen
07-26-2009, 08:24
As much as I adore the Reenkster, I don't believe Sigurd is the right choice here.
I do, believe that its time for a substitute.
Who is too dangerous to be left alive?
Vote: TinCow.
Yes, taking money for votes doesn´t seem to work. The whole concept of bribes seems to be unknown to the hordes.
Vote: ATPG because you still owe me a cookie...
Death is yonder
07-26-2009, 09:04
Could it be that YLC is a Chinese? After all... Zhang Qian was a Chinese envoy who was captured by nomadic tribes...
My previous night of good sleep would prove elusive once more. I was quite rudely awakened during the night multiple times by tribesmen who seemed to be milling about in the night. I ignored it for the time being, desperate for every wink of sleep that I could obtain. When the time came for me to be up and going, I felt groggy and irritated. What could have been going on that was so fascinating?! I stumbled out the tent, heading towards the council grounds once more. It seemed a rather large number of tribesmen were in attendance, perhaps every member of the camp. All I could see, including Shinzei, seemed exceedingly agitated. My irritation began to warp into dread. What could have happened that caused such emotion from the savages? I made my way to the side of Shinzei, and before the council could be started, I asked him how many had been killed during the night, assuming the number must be strikingly large. He replied that nobody had been found dead. I was stunned. I asked him what had happened that caused the entire camp to be so on edge. He gave me a curious look, as though I was an imbecile for not knowing. He informed me the heavens opened up that night with an ominous portent, a great fireball which scorched the heavens themselves. I now understood why the council was being held; such omens could not be ignored. The matter at hand was now more serious than ever, and it was important that we prevent the foretold disaster upon this camp.
-- The Record of Zhang Qian
Who just so happens to be present in every write up...
DJGingivitis
07-26-2009, 10:22
How is he avoiding attention? Should he be voting for himself, just to let us know he could be guilty? I'm confused as to how you believe TinCow going after people is a bad thing. It forces others to post as well and stimulates discussion. This is a good thing. Going after people who have been contributing more than you because they have been contributing is a bad thing.
He is avoiding attention by drawing attention to other people (hence the Sun Tzu reference, maybe you have not read Art of War) He is going after too many people. Every day it is someone new or multiple people over a couple days. Like I have stated several times and the main point of my argument against him, he is drawing too much attention then moving onto the next plausible mafioso. First it was YLC early in the round because it was suspicious of him selling his vote. Then it went to Beskar and RR because they were going at it for the past couple rounds but now that has died down. Now it seems that Sigurd is the new guy to go after because someone said . And guess who is at the head of the witch hunt? Tin Cow.
I am not saying that accusing people is wrong, but just accusing people and then turning to someone else as soon as new attention is stirring is quite odd. And I am not going after him because he has contributed more to this game. It is what he has contributed.
Askthepizzaguy
07-26-2009, 10:50
Okay. If he turns out to be mafia when the game is over, you deserve due credit for spotting him early. In my opinion, however, he's been pointing out odd/scummy behavior, investigated it for a time, and after seeing the game unfold, he now has different theories as to who is scum. Or he simply has a short list of top suspects. I have a list of suspects too, and it includes most of the people in the game, except for the dead ones and me of course. My top suspects are only theoretically more suspicious than my regular suspects, and who they are changes often.
I don't see what TinCow is doing that's any different from my own methods. I don't follow your reasoning as to why it's wrong. But I can't prove my method is better than yours, so... vote away.
Now it seems that Sigurd is the new guy to go after because someone said . And guess who is at the head of the witch hunt? Tin Cow.
Repeating this over and over doesn't make it true. Voting for Sigurd is not jumping on anyone else's arguments; I've been on his case for a long time now. I first brought him up five days ago (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2294299#post2294299). I gave him a while to respond, and when he didn't I raised him again three days ago (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2295905#post2295905) in two posts (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2295921#post2295921). Your assertions that Sigurd is "the new guy" are not remotely true.
pevergreen
07-26-2009, 14:13
Sigurd has had a history recently of heavy inactivity, you know this.
Sigurd has had a history recently of heavy inactivity, you know this.
Sigurd has a history recently of pulling off mafioso wins by lurking and proclaiming RL inactivity (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2116447&postcount=788). In any case, he's posted three times in this thread since my first question and he's never acknowledged it. In this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2295511&postcount=264), he even took the time to check to see who had missed several rounds of voting, indicating he was looking at the thread in more than just superficial depth. He had to go back and reread to do that, yet he did not respond.
Reenk Roink
07-26-2009, 17:21
DJGingivitis. I wouldn't consider TinCow to be the someone said in this case anyway. White he has been gunning Sigurd since early times, he really has never done anything to put his money where his mouth was until a vote for Sigurd by me. I also have suspected Sigurd more and more as the game progressed until now.
pever, we can always get TinCow following the same reasoning we got Sigurd. :laugh4: In fact, should the heat on Beskar-Atpg (who still have some suspicious nature to their game - just that better targets have popped up while a blow has been dealt to Beskar's guilt) not be on next round, I will try and get Tratorix, DIY, or TinCow. The former two because I believe they are scummy, and the latter because I want to curry favor with another section of the town, plus he is annoying with his constant disagreement and nitpicking. :laugh4:
I think (I hope) Beskar-Atpg will be lynched before the endgame anyway. :shrug:
DJGingivitis
07-26-2009, 18:08
Whatever I am not going to try and keep on explaining myself. I still think Tin Cow is mafia. Unless something concrete comes up he will have my vote. Continue to kill off others.
White_eyes:D
07-26-2009, 19:55
Unexplained theories regarding who would have the cojones not to kill anyone. And so on.
I think I was talking about those, who would have the Brass ones to repeatedly block one person from the start of the game.:laugh4: be proud, I think very highly of you and even Beskar:2thumbsup:
This missing one kill makes no sense....unless they are powering up for several kills??:juggle2:
Otherwise, it's not worth it in Mafia game terms to miss out of a kill:no:
Askthepizzaguy
07-26-2009, 20:16
I think I was talking about those, who would have the Brass ones to repeatedly block one person from the start of the game.:laugh4: be proud, I think very highly of you and even Beskar:2thumbsup:
I consider it a compliment, for sure. Of course, you have voted for me this game so far, as well as my one and only soul mate and perfect pretty peachy pie, Beskar, so I'm not sure how far flattery will get you. :wink:
I think I will vote: TinCow
The answers to your questions are so obvious that I am thinking you are intentionally acting dumb. This is much the same as you did in Netherworld which worked then because you were indeed a new player.
I am however baffled that the Mafia aren't seeing these obvious things. If I was indeed a mafioso, someone would have died a long time ago.
Maybe DJG received some esoteric knowledge that he will not divulge in public, even though we all know that the trade is worth it.
If I was indeed a mafioso, someone would have died a long time ago.
Out of curiosity, can I ask who?
pevergreen
07-26-2009, 23:13
Sigurd has a history recently of pulling off mafioso wins by lurking and proclaiming RL inactivity (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2116447&postcount=788). In any case, he's posted three times in this thread since my first question and he's never acknowledged it. In this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2295511&postcount=264), he even took the time to check to see who had missed several rounds of voting, indicating he was looking at the thread in more than just superficial depth. He had to go back and reread to do that, yet he did not respond.
You'll have to excuse me, but I wasn't in that game, nor does that post prove he was using inactivity to win. Its not the most honourable, but its a legitimate strategy. If hes been claiming RL and uses that to win, well, thats frowned upon by pretty much everyone. It was an unspoken rule.
However, my sign up post agrees with me, I fear you more than Sigurd.
White_eyes:D
07-26-2009, 23:35
I think I will vote: TinCow
The answers to your questions are so obvious that I am thinking you are intentionally acting dumb. This is much the same as you did in Netherworld which worked then because you were indeed a new player.
Does anyone here, know how TinCow is when he is Mafia?:dizzy2: (I remember the sting of "Chicago soiree, mega lurker victory" and I would be thinking TinCow does too....)
You know the saying "Revenge is a dish, best served cold":bounce:
The fact that you responded only when in the lead for votes has me thinking that you are mafia....but I could be wrong....it all could be a masterminded plot by the evil Mafioso TinCow.:sweatdrop:
I am willing to take a chance:yes:
DJGingivitis
07-27-2009, 00:08
Also if you are trying to find a lurker, what about Lord Winter. He was my choice of lurker early in the game. So if we are going for Tin Cow I am game, if we are going for a lurker I nominate Lord Winter.
Reenk Roink
07-27-2009, 00:44
I think I will vote: TinCow
The answers to your questions are so obvious that I am thinking you are intentionally acting dumb. This is much the same as you did in Netherworld which worked then because you were indeed a new player.
I am however baffled that the Mafia aren't seeing these obvious things. If I was indeed a mafioso, someone would have died a long time ago.
Maybe DJG received some esoteric knowledge that he will not divulge in public, even though we all know that the trade is worth it.
Siggy Fafmeister, really the only reason I am suspicious of you is the fact that saved Beskar and then later wouldn't vote for him although you implied you thought he could be guilty. It really seemed that your statement of "we can lynch Beskar later, not now" made you think there was at least some suspicion on him, but you instead went after split who I really think you didn't consider guilty.
Now then, can you ease the feeling in my gut that you are up to no good? That you were just planning on keeping Beskar around for a later lynch when he would be more useful?
The second point is interesting though... and given some behind the scenes knowledge I have gotten I will:
Unvote: Sigurd
Vote: TinCow
FOS: Sigurd (until I am satisfied with your response, if I am at all)
I also ask YLC to unvote and vote TinCow if he could, sorry for the hassle. :sweatdrop:
DJGingivtis- 2 (Tratorix, Chaotix)
Chaotix-1 (gibsong91921)
Tin Cow-4 (DJGingivtis, Sigurd, pevergreen Reenk Roink)
Ichigo-1 (ATPG)
Sigurd-3 (YLC, Tin Cow, AVSM)
White_Eyes :D-2 (Jolt, Beskar)
Jolt-1 (White_Eyes :D)
Atpg-1 (Khaazar)
and given some behind the scenes knowledge I have gotten
Very well then. Under the circumstances, it seems I will best aid the town by dying. After I am dead, I urge Reenk to publicly examine whatever "knowledge" he has gained. Either he is being manipulated or he is doing it himself. Keep this in mind for future rounds.
I could publicly defend you TinCow, but I think that would just publicly condemn you even more. :beam:
Though on a serious note, can you provide any information on this "behind the scenes knowledge" because I am feeling left out. :sad:
GeneralHankerchief
07-27-2009, 03:26
I could publicly defend you TinCow, but I think that would just publicly condemn you even more. :beam:
Acting the victim even though you faced zero pressure this last round. Paranoid? Yes. GUILTY.
Lynch: Beskar
ROFL, you know it was obvious humour, naughty Handkerchief.
On another note, do you know that using handkerchiefs are discouraged? They want everyone to use tissues so you can sneeze/cough into them, then drop them straight into a bin.
Though on a serious note, can you provide any information on this "behind the scenes knowledge" because I am feeling left out. :sad:
Nope. I have not exchanged a single PM with anyone about this game. I know nothing beyond what is in the thread.
Reenk Roink
07-27-2009, 04:18
Very well then. Under the circumstances, it seems I will best aid the town by dying. After I am dead, I urge Reenk to publicly examine whatever "knowledge" he has gained. Either he is being manipulated or he is doing it himself. Keep this in mind for future rounds.
I'll give you some further fuel against me. In earlier games, I generally have a tendency to be quite a jerk and immediately post any PM I get as a townie. I don't like things done discreetly.
I did this in Scourge of Ephesus, a recent game where you and I both played together so you don't have to just take my word for it. I was an "Innocent townie" in that game.
In this game I have received several PM's from a couple of people. I haven't revealed a single one nor the contents of one. In fact, I only revealed that I was receiving such communication now.
Does it count as a behavior change? :2thumbsup:
Anyway
Unvote: TinCow
I wanna see this tied for now. YLC please don't switch to TinCow just this moment. Sorry again for changing everything all the time. :shame:
A Very Super Market
07-27-2009, 04:20
I'll offer more money than Reenk.
And a goat.
A GOAT.
Askthepizzaguy
07-27-2009, 05:31
I'd like the goat....
White_eyes:D
07-27-2009, 06:09
I wanna see this tied for now. YLC please don't switch to TinCow just this moment. Sorry again for changing everything all the time. :shame:
You always need to make you vote count, don't you?:beam:
I would watch out for Jolt....He came in at the last minute to save Beskar....I find it likely he well do this again:yes:
Edit:Because he is like you and loves to make his vote count...:laugh4:
Very well then. Under the circumstances, it seems I will best aid the town by dying. After I am dead, I urge Reenk to publicly examine whatever "knowledge" he has gained. Either he is being manipulated or he is doing it himself. Keep this in mind for future rounds.
This is the kind of posting that would normally make me unvote. Playing the victim of some conspiracy will normally stir the empathy center.
However, I am now unsure as DJG seems to back off and offer another candidate for this lynch.
Now then, can you ease the feeling in my gut that you are up to no good? That you were just planning on keeping Beskar around for a later lynch when he would be more useful?
Maybe you got the same info I did?
DJGingivitis
07-27-2009, 07:16
Sigurd I was not offering another target. There was a hint of sarcasm. Sorry. I forgot my [/sarcasm]
Sigurd I was not offering another target. There was a hint of sarcasm. Sorry. I forgot my [/sarcasm]
So, you remain steadfast in your choice that TinCow is our candidate?
Out of curiosity, can I ask who?
Why? dear Watson... If I told you, I would give it away. It might be that the Mafia is not as observant as we hope.
Mafiosi are in the informed minority and by carefully reading the thread will notice any correlation between players. As townies we can notice the same correlation, but will not know the alignment of these players. We don't know if they are pro or anti town.
pevergreen
07-27-2009, 08:03
Theres no correlation between me and Reenk. None at all.
:creep:
Askthepizzaguy
07-27-2009, 09:16
Oh please. You two are in bed with each other, the whole world can see it. I'm going to start calling you pevergreenk.
:clown:
seireikhaan
07-27-2009, 17:22
Ok, round's over. Gimme a bit to get the tally in order and writeup in place.
seireikhaan
07-27-2009, 17:38
We Have a Tie. Same procedure as last time. You may still vote for anyone you wish, but the instant any vote leading tie is broken, the one with the most votes will be lynched.
Sigurd 3: (TinCow, A Very Super Market, YLC)
TinCow 3: (DJGingivitis, pevergreen, Sigurd)
White_eyes 2: (Jolt, Beskar)
DJGingivitis 2: (Chaotix, Tratorix)
Jolt 1: (White_eyes)
Ichigo: 1 (Askthepizzaguy)
Chaotix: 1 (gibsons)
Askthepizzaguy: (Khazaar)
DJGingivitis
07-27-2009, 17:52
You have sigurd voting for both tincow and himself.
seireikhaan
07-27-2009, 17:55
You have sigurd voting for both tincow and himself.
Indeed, accidentally punched his name in when tallying A Very Super Market's vote. Tie stands.
Askthepizzaguy
07-27-2009, 17:56
unvote, vote: White_Eyes
Now you have a third option. Take your pick!
seireikhaan
07-27-2009, 18:01
Sigurd: 3 (TinCow, A Very Super Market, YLC)
TinCow: 3 (DJGingivitis, pevergreen, Sigurd)
White_eyes: 3 (Jolt, Beskar, Askthepizzaguy)
DJGingivitis: 2 (Chaotix, Tratorix)
Jolt: 1 (White_eyes)
Chaotix: 1 (gibsons)
Askthepizzaguy: 1 (Khazaar)
New tally.
:inquisitive:
The case against W_E is about the worst we've had yet in this game. As much as I would like to save my own butt, I won't do it in that manner. Just pick between Sigurd and I and get it over with.
It appears my customer wishes that my vote be placed upon TC, and, erring on the side of caution, shall..
Unvote: Sigurd, Vote: TinCow
:bow:
So be it. I urge that pressure be put on Reenk until this:
given some behind the scenes knowledge I have gotten
is revealed. As I was not a mafioso, this cannot possibly be detective information. Thus, it is likely little more than rumor and speculation. There is no harm in bringing this out into the public eye so that we can see what was said and who said it.
seireikhaan
07-27-2009, 18:41
Perhaps it was a result of the previous night, but this council seemed more disjointed and hectic than any previous. Accusations were thrown around at seemingly half of the camp during the fray, which made my record keeping a bit more problematic than usual. Once more, various members left the council for a while, and some just sat solemnly, with brooding looks. When the day was to end, there were a multitude of camp members who had garnered suspicion. Three members led with a seemingly equal level of suspicion leveled at them. In the end, a clear leader was not established until a final shift tipped the scales towards a man named TinCow. When I told Shinzei of this and he announced it to the tribesemen, TinCow stepped forward of his own volition. He knelt in front of Shinzei, with no restrictions placed upon him, his head bowed forwards. Shinzei gave a slight leer to the rest of the camp that they had decided upon this halfways suicidal man as the most likely to be a spy. However, he was bound by the rule of council. Thus, he unsheathed his sword, and swung down at the base of the man's neck. The sword sliced true, directly cleaving the man's neck and head from the body. I turned away from the gruesome sight, but I knew deep down it was best the kill had been so quick. With TinCow's death, Shinzei dismissed the council once more, myself included. I felt queasy returning to the tent this night. Perhaps it was the gods whispering in my ear, but I felt sure that we were not yet rid of the killers yet.....
--The Record of Zhang Qian
Tally
TinCow: 4 (DJGingivitis, pevergreen, Sigurd, YLC)
White_eyes: 3 (Jolt, Beskar, Askthepizzaguy)
Sigurd: 2 (TinCow, A Very Super Market)
DJGingivitis: 2 (Chaotix, Tratorix)
Jolt: 1 (White_eyes)
Chaotix: 1 (gibsons)
Askthepizzaguy: 1 (Khazaar)
Not voting: 5 (Caius, Lord Winter, Death is Yonder, Ichigo, Reenk Roink)
Alive: 18
Askthepizzaguy
A Very Super Market
Beskar
Caius
Chaotix
Death is Yonder
DJGingivtis
Gibsonsg91921
Ichigo
Jolt
Khazaar
Lord Winter
pevergreen
Reenk Roink
Sigurd
Tratorix
White_eyes:D
YLC
Dead: 3
Yaropolk (N1)
Atheotes (N2)
GeneralHankerchief (N3)
Lynched: 4
FactionHeir (D1)
Beefy (D2)
Splitpersonality (D3)
TinCow (D4)
WoK'd: 0
NIGHT HAS BEGUN! ORDERS PLEASE!
Askthepizzaguy
07-27-2009, 18:46
I have to wonder... why must there be a "case" on someone to lynch them? At the very least, you know that person being lynched isn't you... presumably that's a good thing. Also, I've noted that the whole idea of a "case" gets thrown out the door every other lynch or so, so who are we fooling?
Apologies for being critical, but...
atheotes
07-27-2009, 18:56
this game has had a lot discussion without any pro-town input or write-up clues... :2thumbsup:
At the very least, you know that person being lynched isn't you... presumably that's a good thing.
While I have previously been a cheerleader for the "save yourself at any cost" style of play, above all everything I do is aimed at winning. If I think I will improve my odds of winning by being lynched, then I will do so. In this situation, as I saw it, saving myself at the expense of W_E would have made me look scummy and undermined my ability to aid the town for the rest of the game. Don't get me wrong, I very much prefer to have a vote than to not have a vote. However, I thought that if I saved myself in that manner I would probably have ensured my lynch in the next round anyway. So, if I was going to lose my vote no matter what, better to do it in a manner that won't make people quite as suspicious of my motives.
Askthepizzaguy
07-27-2009, 19:01
Thank you, I appreciate your perspective. (sincerely) :bow: I've been quite obvious about saving myself all game, and I don't think it's damaged my credibility.
(When you have none, you have none to lose! :laugh4:)
A Very Super Market
07-27-2009, 19:15
It appears my customer wishes that my vote be placed upon TC, and, erring on the side of caution, shall..
Unvote: Sigurd, Vote: TinCow
I offered you a goat, good man!
A GOAT!
I offered you a goat, good man!
A GOAT!
Good sir, the product had already been bought! How am I to sell something that I no longer own?
White_eyes:D
07-28-2009, 01:34
Hmmm......why did you guys not vote me off??
TinCow, I thank you:bow: but you should have voted me off, if you were townie:no:
Let's look at people's reasons for voting me...
Beskar: "You lynched me in other games and are still trying to in this one":shrug: I don't like it when people take it personally....it's just a GAME, get over it.
ATPG: "I must back-up my Beskar buddy":rolleyes: I know you ATPG and you would Lie, Betray and Lie some more to save your scum buddy's, so don't say your backing up your buddy:whip: say scum buddy:yes:
Jolt: "I came up with such a bad reason to vote someone, I might as well not give a reason at all":laugh4: I mean is any of this getting though to the town??:sweatdrop: He gave such a horriable reason...It made my eyes hurt just reading it:laugh4:
Town is really not working this game:shame:
Askthepizzaguy
07-28-2009, 01:36
I'd like, cheat, and lie some more even as a townie. I've been doing that a lot lately.
Sometimes I do it just for fun.
Since as I said, you keep voting me for non-game reasons, it is poor sportsmanship.
White_eyes:D
07-28-2009, 01:52
Since as I said, you keep voting me for non-game reasons, it is poor sportsmanship.
:inquisitive:
I gave my reasons. I would have been happy had I been lynched by TinCow because no more, WIFOM relating to me:bow: Why you cling to life, when you Know that the Mafia are going to use it against you is puzzling...:dizzy2:
Why can only make you and ATPG scum in my mind because of how closely you keep working together:inquisitive: A ballsy show to be sure but I am sure everyone else notices it:whip:
Edit:Okay, WHY did you just edit it?? You and Pizzaguy MUST be scum:inquisitive: He problaly PM'ed you and told you not to say anything related to him...JACKPOT
Askthepizzaguy
07-28-2009, 01:54
He caught us! RUN FOR THE HILLS!!!
White_eyes:D
07-28-2009, 01:59
He caught us! RUN FOR THE HILLS!!!
I know, I didn't want to believe the Beskar-ATPG connection, that Reenk and a few others put up....but now I have no doubt, that you and Beskar are working closely together:inquisitive:
Edit:and all because Beskar has such a quick temper....figured he would see that coming:laugh4:
We work together... intimately....
Askthepizzaguy
07-28-2009, 02:01
We work together... intimately....
Bow chicka wow. Chicka wow wow. ~:pimp:
Tratorix
07-28-2009, 02:21
I know, I didn't want to believe the Beskar-ATPG connection, that Reenk and a few others put up....but now I have no doubt, that you and Beskar are working closely together:inquisitive:
Edit:and all because Beskar has such a quick temper....figured he would see that coming:laugh4:
White Eyes comes to the shocking conclusion that Beskar and ATPG may be working together about three rounds after several people put that theory forward. Case closed. :holmes:
Askthepizzaguy
07-28-2009, 02:53
Beskar and I are the boldest mafia ever. We just kinda chill and let the town know what we're up to. And then they go lynch themselves and we clink our martini glasses together and laugh and laugh.
Beskar and I are the boldest mafia ever. We just kinda chill and let the town know what we're up to. And then they go lynch themselves and we clink our martini glasses together and laugh and laugh.
...
You both need to die, then.
Askthepizzaguy
07-28-2009, 03:36
Shouldn't be too much longer. In the meantime, all this focus on a select few is letting some people sneak through the entire game with 2 or 3 posts, in spite of my repeated frustrated protests.
See what I did there? I was having fun, now I'm serious. How about we get real next round.
White_eyes:D
07-28-2009, 04:45
Oh, sure....now it's the lurkers??:inquisitive:
You had your chance with Sigurd....but instead went with Me:cry2:
White Eyes comes to the shocking conclusion that Beskar and ATPG may be working together about three rounds after several people put that theory forward. Case closed. :holmes:
I just thought it was mere chance and they were screwing around:laugh4:
I don't over-analyze, unless I am SK/Mafia.....not my fault:clown:
:wall:
Where's an investigator when you need one? All of this confusion is only a detriment to the town.
ATPG, if you'd like to "get serious", then stop making yourself such a blatant lynch target so we can focus on the real suspects.
Tratorix
07-28-2009, 05:11
:wall:
Where's an investigator when you need one? All of this confusion is only a detriment to the town.
ATPG, if you'd like to "get serious", then stop making yourself such a blatant lynch target so we can focus on the real suspects.
Stop getting voted for! :laugh4:
pevergreen
07-28-2009, 05:14
Bow chicka wow. Chicka wow wow. ~:pimp:
NO!
It is: Bow chicka bow wow.
Stupid ad. IT IS COOLER IN RED VS BLUE.
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE.
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