Westeros: A Game of Thrones.

[Kagemusha]

Direwolve's are the Westero's equivalent of a limited edition sports car that Daddy really didn't want to give you, but you begged/blackmailed him until he did. Guaranteed to make other houses jealous or your money back.:cool:

Its a shame you cant get them Green.~;)

[White_eyes:D]

Yeah, remember how badly Cersei wanted a dire wolf coat?
I wouldn't want to mess with a wolf the size of a small horse with white fur and red eyes.:sweatdrop:

[Double A]

No one wants to mess with Ghost. The others... :tongue:

[Greyblades]

OOC: Hmm, I wonder if anyone who actually roleplays will see which one of our proclimations are true or if they will just see both as cookie cutter attempts at political mudslinging, either way the proof on both sides are equally valid (ie verry little). Good luck getting someone to listen now beskie. Muahahahahaha!

[Jarema]

Good one!!!

TBH, who proclaims first, has more chance to be seen as honest.
Also, Stannis has better reputation for his word, I believe. And his claim is (presumably) supported by words of men who has no personal interest in claiming it. We have to wait for Stark's words

[Greyblades]

Honesty isnt an issue it just needs to be trivialized. It was ignored for the most part in the books, this way it shouldn't even be taken seriously by the common folk.

[Secura]

It was ignored for the most part in the books, this way it shouldn't even be taken seriously by the common folk.

This isn't the books though, events transpire partly due to our own machinations, partly at JHT's whim.

Copy-pasting Beskar's efforts has led to several glaring errors in your response as a result; the pure blondeline of the Baratheons is a particular highlight.

I'm going to suggest that there should be a rule on amending posts over an hour after they've been posted, much like how we don't allow votes to be edited in mafia. Now that I've pointed out an error in your post, there's nothing to stop you correcting it even though some Houses may have already seen it.

You wouldn't be able to repeatedly amend a letter sent across the kingdom, why should a post be any different?

[Greyblades]

True, but use of meta information to dictate your actions and reactions without justification is discouraged, including this conversation. I'm not worried, I half expect everyone is probably going to turn on my side because "they're the lannisters and the lannisters are bad guys" anyway So I'm going to have some fun with this.

Edit: The pointing out of errors might help in mafia but not here I think, the intention is getting accross the attitude of my response than the actual claim.

Incidentally, thanks for pointing out my mistake before such a no editing after an hour rule was implemented. Bwahahaha!

[johnhughthom]

I'm not going to implement a strict rule for editing posts in the Game Thread, I know how annoying it can be to reread a post a day later and notice a grammatical error or spelling mistake. I would ask that players do not change the content of a post in that thread. I will overlook Greyblade's editing, I didn't see the original post anyway, but any future editing of posts not to correct obvious errors may result in loaded dice at the end of that turn.

[Montmorency]

Didn't I say the host loads dice?

:mellow:

Don’t load my dice, bro!

[Beskar]

either way the proof on both sides are equally valid (ie verry little)

Except mine is true and yours isn't?

The fact you called my character bald when the picture from Game of Thrones season 2 doesn't have Stannis as bald. The fact everyone of Baratheon line has a black mane of hair except for the children of Cersei and their resemblance in looks to the Kingslayer?

In the Book, everyone knows what Stannis says is true. It is a mere fact that the lie suits them. With Magerty marrying Tommen, Tyrell's want some "legitimacy" to the throne for their own ends. Supporting the truth doesn't suit their purpose. It was never a case no one believed it, they all did believe it. It just wasn't a good idea to :flower: the Lannister's over it.

[Kival]

I think it was a really bad try, especially since blonde hair is recessive while bald hair isn't. Also is bald hair not a strict genetic pointer it only makes bald hair probable. But as I don't know how much of this is known in Westeros, we should just let the Gamemaster representing all non-players and the Houses decide what they think about it. But I really like to highly discourage content editing after more than e.g. an hour.

[johnhughthom]

3 hours to deadline.

[Kagemusha]

I would like to have an clarification on the rules of engagement. Does a faction need to declare war in public in the game thread before they can attack someone else? This is quite important information concerning starts of wars.

[johnhughthom]

I would like to have an clarification on the rules of engagement. Does a faction need to declare war in public in the game thread before they can attack someone else? This is quite important information concerning starts of wars.

No. You cannot call up the banners without a declaration, but factional armies can be used for a cowardly pre-emptive strike.

[Kagemusha]

No. You cannot call up the banners without a declaration, but factional armies can be used for a cowardly pre-emptive strike.

Thank you for your answer.:bow:

[Greyblades]

Except mine is true and yours isn't?

The fact you called my character bald when the picture from Game of Thrones season 2 doesn't have Stannis as bald. The fact everyone of Baratheon line has a black mane of hair except for the children of Cersei and their resemblance in looks to the Kingslayer?

In the Book, everyone knows what Stannis says is true. It is a mere fact that the lie suits them. With Magerty marrying Tommen, Tyrell's want some "legitimacy" to the throne for their own ends. Supporting the truth doesn't suit their purpose. It was never a case no one believed it, they all did believe it. It just wasn't a good idea to :flower: the Lannister's over it.

... What? I alread said it was to trivialize your proclimation, not damage your claim. Point is that I'm not taking your messages seriously and that, as far as westeros is concerned, Stannis' claim is baseless slander, something that can be made up on the spot, kinda like what I did.

And as for the appearance, check the books, check the wiki, he's bald, tvshow or not. (http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Stannis_Baratheon)

[Beskar]

And as for the appearance, check the books, check the wiki, he's bald, tvshow or not. (http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Stannis_Baratheon)

Picture used by the host doesn't have him bald. Google image search for Stephen Dillane .

[Jarema]

If I remember correctly, in a book he IS bald, at least partially

[Greyblades]

I think Book trumps unreleased TV shows here.

[Kagemusha]

I think Book trumps unreleased TV shows here.

Well in that pic you posted whats left of his hair is black. Or was he bald all his life? ;)

[Ishmael]

A question for our host, are the Lannisters allowed to order around King's Landing NPC characters like Pycelle? Greyblades' post in the other thread made me curious.

[johnhughthom]

A question for our host, are the Lannisters allowed to order around King's Landing NPC characters like Pycelle? Greyblades' post in the other thread made me curious.

Having Pycelle send out letters like that would be part of his duties at King's Landing, Greyblades is skirting the boundaries of the rules on NPCs with them though. I was about to post it in the Lannister QT but I guess this will suffice.

I would also like to congratule Greyblades on his excellent Tywin rping, he has you all arguing over something totally irrelevant in the scheme of things.

[Montmorency]

Oh yeah? Let's see the scoundrel RP when he's RIP.

[Greyblades]

Well in that pic you posted whats left of his hair is black. Or was he bald all his life? ;)

Eh, the picture is fanart, (you should see what they have for tywin, sheesh, his hair is practically luminescant)so it's not much of a source, the appearance part of the wiki says he's bald with a shadow of a beard. As for history, I have no idea.

[Kagemusha]

Eh, the picture is fanart, (you should see what they have for tywin, sheesh, his hair is practically luminescant)so it's not much of a source, the appearance part of the wiki says he's bald with a shadow of a beard. As for history, I have no idea.

Sorry about my poor attempt of a joke. ;) As a Neutral faction.I will not go too deep into these Baratheon family genetics.

[Greyblades]

I would also like to congratule Greyblades on his excellent Tywin rping, he has you all arguing over something totally irrelevant in the scheme of things.

Aww, couldn't you have waited an hour?

[johnhughthom]

I'm not going to get a chance to put everything together until tomorrow, so if some orders are slightly late this phase it won't be a problem.

[The Stranger]

I disagree... i have just gone to lenghts to get my orders in in time and this will give other ppl time to react. I am sorry but in all fairness the deadline should be maintained.

[Montmorency]

It's not like they can see a real-time preview of the writeup in-progress.

[johnhughthom]

I think he means the declaration on the Tully's.

As a compromise, I'll allow late orders, but anything that is a clear reaction to the declaration on the Tully's will be disallowed.

[White_eyes:D]

Anything that is a clear reaction to the declaration on the Tully's will be disallowed. If they don't send a call for help from the North I will be really surprised.:juggle2:

[Greyblades]

Bye, bye, Theon greyjoy, its a pity youre likely going to be killed by the starks due to your father's actions in a turn.
Seriously though what the heck are you guys thinking? You can't take on the tullys on land let alone the starks.

[scottishranger]

who said anything about taking anybody on land?

[White_eyes:D]

It's sad because they are required by law to kill Theon if the Greyjoy's mess around. It's kinda of funny because I was wondering if Ned would have killed Theon, if he had to.:book:

[Beskar]

Bye, bye, Theon greyjoy, its a pity youre likely going to be killed by the starks due to your father's actions in a turn.
Seriously though what the heck are you guys thinking? You can't take on the tullys on land let alone the starks.

I heard that it was the Lannisters who pushed the Greyjoys into their rash action.

[Greyblades]

And I heard Dragonstone spent half its treasury on table wax for its lord's head. :P

Still this doesnt make much sense, I would have made them destroy your fleet not waste themselves on the Tullys.

[Greyblades]

It's sad because they are required by law to kill Theon if the Greyjoy's mess around. It's kinda of funny because I was wondering if Ned would have killed Theon, if he had to.:book:

Oh Ned would do it, it's Robb that might have pause.

[White_eyes:D]

Still this doesnt make much sense, I would have made them destroy your fleet not waste themselves on the Tullys. Hardly anyone but the Greyjoys have a fleet though...attacking the Riverlands now makes as much sense as Ned declaring himself "King of the Iron Throne and Seven Kingdoms". Why didn't they just stick to raiding and call it a day?:no:

[Kagemusha]

Hardly anyone but the Greyjoys have a fleet though...attacking the Riverlands now makes as much sense as Ned declaring himself "King of the Iron Throne and Seven Kingdoms". Why didn't they just stick to raiding and call it a day?:no:

Maybe if Ned would be so kind and tell the rest of us Robert´s will.There might be a King who´s duty would be to protect his vassal Lord´s. To the contrary the Hand of the King seems to have gone mute.

[Kival]

Guys, no pseudo-ingame discussion here, please. If you as a character or faction want to do something officially, do so in the game thread, if not officially in PM and QT.

[White_eyes:D]

Guys, no pseudo-ingame discussion here, please. If you as a character or faction want to do something officially, do so in the game thread, if not officially in PM and QT. That's more for announcements and such. I am not speaking for my faction while I post here anyway...just more like playfully criticizing.:bounce:

Edit:If I have anything relevant to say for the Stark's, it's going to be in the game thread.:bow:

[Greyblades]

Now we play the waiting game...

Games boring, who wants to play Shogun 2?

[The Stranger]

And I heard Dragonstone spent half its treasury on table wax for its lord's head. :P


that was really funny!

[The Stranger]

greyblades ur inbox is full

[Jarema]

Hardly anyone but the Greyjoys have a fleet though...attacking the Riverlands now makes as much sense as Ned declaring himself "King of the Iron Throne and Seven Kingdoms". Why didn't they just stick to raiding and call it a day?:no:

Do not try to question will of the Drowned God, infidel!

[Jarema]

As for Stannis appearance: I found his description as "being bald at his forehead and temple"

[Beskar]

The picture used is from the TV series, along with everyone elses. So Eddard Stark is Sean Bean, etc.

[Greyblades]

Sure sure, now could you could be so kind as to put on a hat, the glare is giving me a headache.

[Kagemusha]

Cant wait for the update!

[The Stranger]

same... XD

[Beskar]

Sure sure, now could you could be so kind as to put on a hat, the glare is giving me a headache.

Eww what is that smell... like some one dropped their guts in the privy.

[Greyblades]

If everyone's orders are as long as ours I think we wont see if for a day or two. Anyone want a round of Shogun 2?


Eww what is that smell... like some one dropped their guts in the privy.
OOC:...dude. Spoilers.
IC: Its nice to know you read, I hear the lord of dragonstone reads by moonlight, he just sits under an open window at night and tilts his head. He doesnt have enough wax left for candles after all.

[Montmorency]

The Baratheon likes to think himself clever. Another instance of reality falling short of expectation. :shame:

[johnhughthom]

Since there seems to be a lot of speculation, I don't think I'll be getting the results out before Monday evening. I'm doing the grunt work tonight, tomorrow I have a few of those Christmas visits to relatives you rarely see, then I'll get on to the actual write ups. So probably Monday I'll be finishing them up to get them out that evening. I'm going to be sending them all out around the same time.

edit: I'm in the UK for those wondering when exactly "Monday evening" is. :smiley:

[Kival]

Take your time. Everybody should understand how much work you have to do here.

[Greyblades]

I think we can entertain ourselves, take your time.

[The Stranger]

i understand :P I think you should hire someone to help you!

lannister will pay :P

[Beskar]

OOC:...dude. Spoilers.

Not a spoiler, everyone knows Tywin Lannister's poop is gold.

[Greyblades]

Yeah, but you were referencing Tywin's death.

[johnhughthom]

Yeah, but you were referencing Tywin's death.

Not necessarily, there were a lot of references in the books to people saying Tywin pooping gold, and his extreme reactions to it.

[Diamondeye]

I would be honored to take my place alongside Kagemusha as a Tyrell in this game. It seems like we manage great things when we're on the same side :)

[Greyblades]

Well yeah but he didnt even mention gold.

[Beskar]

Some one who hasn't read the book wouldn't have got any references, they now only suspect something because of your reaction Greyblades! I was simply saying Tywin Lannister was a little stinky.

[johnhughthom]

I would be honored to take my place alongside Kagemusha as a Tyrell in this game. It seems like we manage great things when we're on the same side :)

Sounds good, I'll forward the details on to you. Like I said the phase is over, but you can get to know each other in the QT!

Poor Renly, the only faction left with two players, I thought he was supposed to be the happy go lucky chap everybody liked?

[Greyblades]

Some one who hasn't read the book wouldn't have got any references, they now only suspect something because of your reaction Greyblades! I was simply saying Tywin Lannister was a little stinky.

...Thats it? A Poop Joke? No meta jokes? I was expecting better of you Beskie.

[The Stranger]

has anyone even heard from renly... i have no idea who he is or what he is up to :P

[johnhughthom]

has anyone even heard from renly... i have no idea who he is or what he is up to :P

I blame Double A, poor Khazaar has to do all the work. :tongue:

[Beskar]

I heard from Double A saying he is Renly.

[Kagemusha]

I would be honored to take my place alongside Kagemusha as a Tyrell in this game. It seems like we manage great things when we're on the same side :)

Welcome to the House Tyrell! We always have room for people like you!:2thumbsup:

[Double A]

Sounds good, I'll forward the details on to you. Like I said the phase is over, but you can get to know each other in the QT!

Poor Renly, the only faction left with two players, I thought he was supposed to be the happy go lucky chap everybody liked?

Everyone is avoiding me like the plague. Maybe they see a second shadow and get scared off.


I blame Double A, poor Khazaar has to do all the work. :tongue:

I've sent PMs to 3 people and haven't gotten a reply. WAKE UP, SIGURD.

[johnhughthom]

Everyone is avoiding me like the plague. Maybe they see a second shadow and get scared off.

Maybe you need to tell Brienne to stop standing so close?

[Kagemusha]

By the way.What do you think. Should we forbid last minute declarations? I do not have anyhting against changing House orders even to the last minute. But for example declaring War at last hour smells meta gaming to me. The declaration of Greyjoys is not what i am basing this as it was against an "AI" faction, so JHT has all the time in the world to react to it. It is more about declaring war at the last minute of the phase in order to deny the other faction from being able to act accordingly.
To me we could have a rule that all declarations of war should be done atleast 24 hours before the deadline. Any takers?

[Secura]

I would be honored to take my place alongside Kagemusha as a Tyrell in this game. It seems like we manage great things when we're on the same side :)

Welcome aboard, Diamondeye! :3


To me we could have a rule that all declarations of war should be done atleast 24 hours before the deadline. Any takers?

The final say-so lies with the host naturally, but I think that this is a good idea to an extent. I'd say that twelve hours before the deadline would still give scope for responding to the declaration of war, but maintains the sense of urgency that a defending nation may feel in mobilising it's forces/trying to appease the aggressive party.

[Greyblades]

Wait what about sneak attacks? Are we allowed to do those or do we have to declare our intent?

[johnhughthom]

Wait what about sneak attacks? Are we allowed to do those or do we have to declare our intent?

Sneak attacks are fine, declaring war is only necessary to call the banners.

[White_eyes:D]

Sneak attacks are fine, declaring war is only necessary to call the banners.
And as we all know sneak attacks are not really that helpful in medieval warfare. It's more about the castles really.:juggle2:

[Greyblades]

So if I do attack someone without declaring I should assume my lords wont join it until the next turn? Hmm I guess should also assume they cant join in because you cant have your bannermen called up without someone noticing and ruining the element of surprise.

[Kagemusha]

The final say-so lies with the host naturally, but I think that this is a good idea to an extent. I'd say that twelve hours before the deadline would still give scope for responding to the declaration of war, but maintains the sense of urgency that a defending nation may feel in mobilising it's forces/trying to appease the aggressive party.

Yes.Of course it is up to host. I was suggesting 24 hours as we can have teams from different continents and all these people have limited time to view the forums because of various reasons. The surprise attacks without declarations are whole other ball game as they are what they are, surprises. With a proper declaration of War. Any House should be able to discuss their options. No matter where on the globe they happen to live and what time zone. In the game the council of a certain House would be in one place in any case.

My personal opinion is that a Lord should be able to call up his bannermen when ever he pleases, but it is not my call to decide that.

[Double A]

Maybe you need to tell Brienne to stop standing so close?

Even if I sent her to the Wall, people would still be frightened away. Gods she's ugly.

[White_eyes:D]

My personal opinion is that a Lord should be able to call up his bannermen when ever he pleases, but it is not my call to decide that. I disagree with that, I don't think you can call up the bannerman without a campaign or war going on.

And what would the Lord tell his Vassals who are paying the upkeep when he calls them up for nothing like that?

If you want to do sneak attacks use your personal army, don't rely on testy Vassals who may sell you out.:evil:

[Greyblades]

Ooh, I forgot about traitor vassals, give me a minute.

"Dear Lord Bolton..."

[Kagemusha]

I disagree with that, I don't think you can call up the bannerman without a campaign or war going on.

And what would the Lord tell his Vassals who are paying the upkeep when he calls them up for nothing like that?

If you want to do sneak attacks use your personal army, don't rely on testy Vassals who may sell you out.:evil:

Like i said my opinion does not have anything to do with sneak attacks. For example if i knew before that i would be attacked. I cant call my banners up and ready in all silence. Now i cant do this even if i had information about something sinister before hand.

It is just a mechanic, nothing else.

[johnhughthom]

Its quite simple to add "call banners if attacked" to orders. :shrug:

[White_eyes:D]

Good thing the North would never accept him as warden without hostages/gold and no male Starks left, huh?:smartass:

[Jarema]

I wonder how much time realistically would calling the banners take

[Greyblades]

Good thing the North would never accept him as warden without hostages/gold and no male Starks left, huh?

Oh, I know what to do about that. :mellow:

[Kagemusha]

Its quite simple to add "call banners if attacked" to orders. :shrug:

Sorry for bring that up.It is just a personal opinion, nothing else.I will not bring it up again. It is all besides the point in any case as the thing i wanted to discuss was the possible last minute declarations which seem gamey to me.

[White_eyes:D]

Like i said my opinion does not have anything to do with sneak attacks. For example if i knew before that i would be attacked. I cant call my banners up and ready in all silence. Now i cant do this even if i had information about something sinister before hand.

It is just a mechanic, nothing else. It's not like you could be overrun in one turn, I would wager it would take at least a couple of turns to take The Reach. That's if you were not putting up a fight for whatever reason.:shrug:

I don't know how john is doing the troop movement or if the banner-mans land is occupied it equals his army gone or if only you sign a peace treaty and give away the land does his army disband?:confused:

[johnhughthom]

Sorry for bring that up.It is just a personal opinion, nothing else.I will not bring it up again. It is all besides the point in any case as the thing i wanted to discuss was the possible last minute declarations which seem gamey to me.

Don't be daft, I'm more than happy for the players to let me know their thoughts on gameplay. I want to get the results done for this round, then I'll look at making a rule for declarations. I see where you are coming from with not being allowed to call the banners, there are arguments both ways. I simply feel in terms of game balance and simplicity not being able to call unless at war was the best decision.

[Kagemusha]

Don't be daft, I'm more than happy for the players to let me know their thoughts on gameplay. I want to get the results done for this round, then I'll look at making a rule for declarations. I see where you are coming from with not being allowed to call the banners, there are arguments both ways. I simply feel in terms of game balance and simplicity not being able to call unless at war was the best decision.

Thank you. I guess i just have the urge to ramble about something while being anxious to read what have happened. It is just telling how good game you have created.:bow:

[Montmorency]

It seems we could be endlessley specific with our orders.


Each member of the Martell family has 10 elite bodyguards posted outside their rooms each night.

Each Martell must drink 1.5 l of the purest water, eat 3 full meals a day, and sleep 6 hours a night. .

Each Martell must heed the call of nature in the appropriate space, unless immediately occupied otherwise.

Martells may not faint, trip, or otherwise embarrass themselves before the men.

The Duke of Lemonwood must drink...

[Greyblades]

HaHA! you seem to have forgotten to check the privvies for assassins crawling through the tubes, say goodbye to oberon suckers! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

Kidding.

[White_eyes:D]

I am guessing our characters stats decide if our actions are successful or if they just plain fail CK style.:book:

[Greyblades]

I would assume there are some actions that dont require stat checks, otherwise we'd have a situation where Mace Tyrell gets lost in his own land trying to move from Oldtown to Highgarden because he messed up a dice roll.

[johnhughthom]

No, I'll assume the characters have either glanced at a map, or have a retainer who has.

[Kagemusha]

Mace Tyrell is bit like many CEO´s these days. He has been blessed with bunch of good employees, so he can sit on his fat behind and take credit from the hard work and talent of others.:smug:

[The Stranger]

Yes.Of course it is up to host. I was suggesting 24 hours as we can have teams from different continents and all these people have limited time to view the forums because of various reasons. The surprise attacks without declarations are whole other ball game as they are what they are, surprises. With a proper declaration of War. Any House should be able to discuss their options. No matter where on the globe they happen to live and what time zone. In the game the council of a certain House would be in one place in any case.

My personal opinion is that a Lord should be able to call up his bannermen when ever he pleases, but it is not my call to decide that.

I agree with that. and to be honest, my last minute declaration was because i actually forgot that i had to do it in the thread... i went home from a gathering actually to make the declaration. (im not proud of that XD)

calling banners only in time of war seems fine to me.

[Beskar]

Are me and the Lannister's technically at war?

I think the answer to that would be "Yes", since I just told them to leave King's Landing (which I doubt they would do), and they called me a traitor and want my head. Plus I said if they didn't leave in thread, I would blockade them and we called eachother "pretender king" (Joffery) and "outlaw" (Stannis)... very grey area'd.

[Greyblades]

Depends, do you want to be curbstomped now or after you've taken care of Renly?

[White_eyes:D]

I am kinda guessing that you guys would be at frosty relations but not outright war yet. Unless one of you guys give up your claim to the Iron throne, I can't see this ending any other way then though bloodshed though.:shrug:

[Beskar]

Depends, do you want to be curbstomped now or after you've taken care of Renly?

Well, there was a reason no one bothered to attack Stannis at Dragonstone. Mostly due to the fact the amount of resources required to take it would be too costly, especially if you are going to have Starks, Tully's, and other factions having dinner without invite in Casterly Rock.

I think the relations between North and South Korea who are "technically at war" is less than Dragonstone and the Lannisters.

[Kagemusha]

To me.You are at war the second Joffrey is proclaimed King by the Hand or the High Council as Stannis had made a claim to the throne.

[The Stranger]

am i at war with the tullys?

[Double A]

Depends, do you want to be curbstomped now or after you've taken care of Renly?

Yes, attack the neutral faction, see where that gets you.

[Greyblades]

...Wait, Renly's neutral? ...The Starks arent going to do much as long as Eddard isnt killed outright, Renly's neutral, Stannis is Icy but not outright war... Is there anyone who actually is at war with us?

[The Stranger]

Highgarden (they plot and they scheme, growing bolder). And don't forget the Starks have Tyrion.

Man I'm dying of impatience...

[Montmorency]

You've been at war with us ever since that fateful day...

[The Stranger]

this is no longer meta game!!! to the official thread u guys :whip:

[Kagemusha]

Highgarden (they plot and they scheme, growing bolder). And don't forget the Starks have Tyrion.

Man I'm dying of impatience...

What is this nonsense? Highgarden is more neutral then neutral can be.:rolleyes:

[Double A]

Take that back! I'm more neutral! I'll fight you to the death over my superior neutrality!

[Montmorency]

Tyrell has an intimidating tagline. :sad:

You had better not be

<iframe width="420" height="25" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ioE_O7Lm0I4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Kagemusha]

We are so neutral that we cant even give an unambiguous answer to such statements!~;)

[White_eyes:D]

Take that back! I'm more neutral! I'll fight you to the death over my superior neutrality!So your backing down and giving up your claim?:wink:

[Beskar]

He offered me to give up his claim, in return I did the same. :laugh4:

[White_eyes:D]

He offered me to give up his claim, in return I did the same. :laugh4:
If so, it should be announced in the game thread ASAP.:bounce:

[Greyblades]

So I guess we should forget any notion that this game will get out of the mudslinging phase.

[Montmorency]

No, military operations are the interludes for our derisory banter.

[Beskar]

If so, it should be announced in the game thread ASAP.:bounce:

Here is the offer I received, only on a purely OOC note. Our discussion on the matter came to an end on a non-agreement though, but it was rather surprising!


'm going to cut the pleasantries, brother. We never were all that close.

The fact is, we both would want to be king. Rather than cut each other's throats over it and let the Lannisters dance on our graves, why not crown Edric and call it a day? He is Robert's only son, after all. Ned could rule until he's come of age.

[White_eyes:D]

OOC:My take on that is that the Tyrells and Lannisters would never agree to it, not so sure about the Vale though.:book:

[johnhughthom]

Results will be out in another few hours. I have one warning though, I do not assume that you wanted certain events to take place, no matter what may have been discussed in QTs or pms with myself. If I do not receive an explicit order to do something, it will not happen. So please don't complain that it was obvious you wanted something to happen.

[Greyblades]

The fact is, we both would want to be king. Rather than cut each other's throats over it and let the Lannisters dance on our graves, why not crown Edric and call it a day? He is Robert's only son, after all. Ned could rule until he's come of age.
Oh, in that case, I'm going to stop messing around.

[johnhughthom]

Also, after you get your results please do not post until I have posted the end of phase write up in the main thread. I had hoped it would be a copy paste job I could get through quickly, but the org's downtime coincided with time I'd set aside for write ups so I'm way behind.

[Kagemusha]

Also, after you get your results please do not post until I have posted the end of phase write up in the main thread. I had hoped it would be a copy paste job I could get through quickly, but the org's downtime coincided with time I'd set aside for write ups so I'm way behind.

When i have been hosting IH´s in chapter house.I always wrote the updates separately. It can spare you from many kind of headache´s.Like forum swallowing an 80% ready write up.:yes:

[johnhughthom]

The problem was I wasn't able to check my pms to see whether I'd missed anything, I didn't want to start the write ups without making sure as I've received well over a hundred pms regarding the game. I went through them one by one and I had missed a couple of orders, so if I'd have started the write ups it would have been time wasted. So it would be nice if all orders pms in future had a title making that clear, ta. :bow:

[Double A]

So your backing down and giving up your claim?:wink:

It's one of the possible scenarios I'm considering, yes.


Here is the offer I received, only on a purely OOC note. Our discussion on the matter came to an end on a non-agreement though, but it was rather surprising!

On another purely OOC note, I fear your shadow.

[The Stranger]

ppl actually sent order pms? :O a lot of backstabbing faction members there must be :whip:

[Montmorency]

Yes!

I, for example, betrayed my false prince, Doran-Doran Scumtell as soon as he was out of earshot.

I am defecting to the East. So long, suckers!

[Greyblades]

Nixed for spoilers.

[johnhughthom]

Stuff
Oi!

Also, after you get your results please do not post until I have posted the end of phase write up in the main thread.

[Greyblades]

Sorry, but I am that annoyed. You're going to have to delete the quote from your post if you want the spoilers to be preserved.

[Montmorency]

You'll have to kill me if you don't want this getting out.

Story of the decade!

[johnhughthom]

Sorry, but I am that annoyed. You're going to have to delete the quote from your post if you want the spoilers to be preserved.

Take your fury to the QT!

edit: Halfway through results.

[Greyblades]

You'll have to kill me if you don't want this getting out.

Story of the decade!

Go ahead. Its the host that wants it kept secret not me.


Take your fury to the QT!
And do what? Ghurkal is gone for the holidays and Atheotes has gone catonic as far as I can tell.

[Double A]

Why can't you defect to me?

[Montmorency]

Atheotes

AUUUGH


Why can't you defect to me?

Why would a king defect to an upstart?

[Arjos]

Renly is on the hunt XD
Flowers aren't enough for him :D

[Beskar]

Yeah.. I got my results and I will simply make it very clear.

John explicitly requests an Order PM at least in the Faction QT listing everything that has to be done. If you didn't do this, it is your fault, don't take it out on the host. I have to admit, half of my orders were ruined because they involved other people who forgot to do this as well, but really. John said like 5 or 6 times. I spent the last couple of hours before the deadline (which was even extended) going back and triple checking my orders PM and I ordered my player-characters to send anything to the Host as well to make sure everything was there.

At least our Faction got into our orders everything we wanted, which is very good, and the host did a brilliant job in the results PM, I have to say grats, because it was truely a beautifully done write-up, even if half the orders failed and even the failings were very well done. Only correction was an ambassador who to bring the tribute with them when they arrived in our court, instead of sending them back home (which is what happened), I probably would have threw them into the dungeon. :p

[Kagemusha]

So now we wait for the write up to be revealed at the Game thread?

[johnhughthom]

So now we wait for the write up to be revealed at the Game thread?

Still a few faction and private write ups, then we'll see what's happening at the wall.

[White_eyes:D]

Likely shows Jon Snow taking his vows....WHYYY?????~:mecry:

[Greyblades]

We've got to worry about the wall too?

[Arjos]

We've got to worry about the wall too?

*Scary and serious tone* Winter is coming!

ahahahahahah

[White_eyes:D]

I am just guessing here, but I think John might have "the Others" break though or go around the wall. I also think Dany may make a landing in the south to balance that out as well. I doubt we well be able to negotiate with them(Dany view most of the family's as "traitors" and the others want all human life wiped out) and they well probably act like the Mongols in CK.:sweatdrop:

[Greyblades]

...That changes a lot of things, I know its meta and knowledge we might not have, but if anyone wants to make a pact where we put aside our differences and gang up n them should Dany or The Others attack, I'm all ears.

[White_eyes:D]

Looks kinda unlikely....we don't know when they might invade and we already have a couple wars about to break out.:laugh4:

[johnhughthom]

Talk away, and feel free to bombard me with questions. Not that it hasn't started already...

[Beskar]

Well, Dragonstone is full of Dragonglass and we have a fire-god. Accept me as your king and we will fight them off!

:knight: :charge:

[White_eyes:D]

Not really going to help us with Dany or YG or anyone from Essos really.:shrug:

[johnhughthom]

BTW, there have been stat changes from this phase, but you won't find them out until next phase.

edit: Wow, either everybody is asleep, or I messed up a lot fewer results than I expected. :laugh4:

[Double A]

...That changes a lot of things, I know its meta and knowledge we might not have, but if anyone wants to make a pact where we put aside our differences and gang up n them should Dany or The Others attack, I'm all ears.

I think Ser Mormont said that if anyone invaded Westeros, everyone would band together and fight 'em off.

Only a suicidal moron would try to fight the people the Others are fighting.

[Greyblades]

Yes and we dont have any suicidal morons in westeros, no sir.

[White_eyes:D]

Its not like anyone is trying to provoke the wars or anything right?:shrug:

I mean we have master plotters in KL's but they are loyal servants to the realm.

Edit:
"Nothing good. The Greyjoys have been raiding the coast of the Riverlands and attacked Highgarden. They've taken the Shield Isles from the Tyrells." Tyrells are going to be upset with this.:laugh4:

[Seon]

I shall join on the Side of Lannisters, but some briefing on what I can do would be nice :p

[The Stranger]

lol you might want to change sides now you still can. if you join lannisters they will no doubt make you joffrey :P

[Greyblades]

If we had the ability to make someone play joffrey eddard Stark would not have died.

[The Stranger]

ehm he said you could pick ppl to play a character so i dont know. i think that unless u specifically ordered joffrey not to do it and had him confined to his chambers it would still have happened.

[Greyblades]

Alas, Eddard Stark was the Hand and Joffrey being technically king was the only guy who could lawfully imprison the Hand. Kinda, should have seen it coming really. Still Tommen should be more compliant so not all is lost on that front.

[Double A]

Yes and we dont have any suicidal morons in westeros, no sir.

Nope. No one.


I shall join on the Side of Lannisters, but some briefing on what I can do would be nice :p

They have three, I have two. That automatically puts you on my side.

[Greyblades]

Oh... abit late, I kinda sent him a copy of our PM, including our QT.
Also currently we were down to one with Gurkhal and Atheotes absent.

[Beskar]

Seon has been reborn and discovered his auntie is his mother and his sister is his wife.

[Greyblades]

Allways about the incest, lord estermont, have you no other tune?

[Double A]

Oh... abit late, I kinda sent him a copy of our PM, including our QT.
Also currently we were down to one with Gurkhal and Atheotes absent.

GAH!

[Captain Blackadder]

I would like to join in the fun I don't mind what faction whomever will have me will be fine.

[Montmorency]

Not really going to help us with Dany or YG or anyone from Essos really.

Fool of a Lannister.

One can only fight Easterners with Easterners!

First to hire an army of firemages rules the continent. :evil:

[Beskar]

I would like to join in the fun I don't mind what faction whomever will have me will be fine.

Storm's End is looking for some one, I believe, contact Double A/Khazaar.

[The Stranger]

I hope you have some diplomatic Acumen Blackadder... :P

[Arjos]

Joffrey being technically king was the only guy who could lawfully imprison the Hand.

Afaik, Lord Tywin, no coronation took place...

[Captain Blackadder]

I hope you have some diplomatic Acumen Blackadder... :P

Indeed I do it is a question of which fantastically honour obsessed character I end up as in Storms End.

[johnhughthom]

Seon has joined House Lannister and Captain Blackadder has joined the fight for neutrality with the Storm's End branch of House Baratheon.

Welcome aboard guys, enjoy the game!

[Arjos]

Will another character step up for House Stark to replace Ned or are they stuck with 3?

[johnhughthom]

You'll have to ask the Starks.

[The Stranger]

when will the Shield islands be coloured black in the factional regions map? XD

[Montmorency]

Really, John, what's your policy on recurring/continuous actions and orders?

[johnhughthom]

Example?

[Montmorency]

I.e. informal economic arrangements.

[johnhughthom]

No need to reorder them each phase, they'll last until rescinded or the factions are at war.

[White_eyes:D]

Will another character step up for House Stark to replace Ned or are they stuck with 3?
I am guessing "Frey Pie" would give you clue as to who is replacing our 4th character.:wink:

[Diamondeye]

when will the Shield islands be coloured black in the factional regions map? XD

Never!

[johnhughthom]

What's with this post in your faction's colour craze we have going on?

Just wanted to remind everyone this is a double phase, you have until next Friday (30th) for orders. For the sake of fairness I will be sticking to the deadline this time there is a timer in the Game Thread so you'll know exactly how much time you have.

Oh, and Beskar did the coloured map for me, so the Shield Islands will be black if he wants to do another one! Hint hint...

[Kagemusha]

What's with this post in your faction's colour craze we have going on?

Just wanted to remind everyone this is a double phase, you have until next Friday (30th) for orders. For the sake of fairness I will be sticking to the deadline this time there is a timer in the Game Thread so you'll know exactly how much time you have.

Oh, and Beskar did the coloured map for me, so the Shield Islands will be black if he wants to do another one! Hint hint...

Shouldnt the shield islands be only striped black? It is not as if those have become legal possessions of Greyjoys, rather those are occupied by them.

[johnhughthom]

Shouldnt the shield islands be only striped black? It is not as if those have become legal possessions of Greyjoys, rather those are occupied by them.

Of course! Sorry about that.

[Double A]

I am guessing "Frey Pie" would give you clue as to who is replacing our 4th character.:wink:

WIN

[Greyblades]

I'd like to apologise for editing my last post in the thread but I kinda forgot Balon greyjoy had not got any sons left.

[johnhughthom]

I'd like to apologise for editing my last post in the thread but I kinda forgot Balon greyjoy had not got any sons left.

Who killed Theon? I demand to know, you can't go killing characters and not tell the host!


:clown:

[Greyblades]

You know what I mean.

[Jarema]

I do not :)

[Greyblades]

Fine, yes! I admit it! I kiled theon greyjoy with my psychic powers last turm! AND ALL OF YOU ARE NEXT!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

[Double A]

He meant Theon is a putz. :tongue:

[Jarema]

You shold be drowned before it is too late :)

[Double A]

I'll go now, if you want me to. Just let me put on my scuba gear...

[Jarema]

I'll go now, if you want me to. Just let me put on my scuba gear...

Blasphemy!!!

[johnhughthom]

Thats regent of the king to you baldie.

Silver-Socks
Jester and fool of Casterly Rock

Glances at Tywin's cranium and scratches his chin in puzzlement.

[Greyblades]

Heh its not tywin thats got an inferiority complex.

[White_eyes:D]

Heh its not tywin thats got an inferiority complex.
Why does he hate Tyrion then?:wink:

[Beskar]

I would like it officially noted that Lannister allows full access of its Fool to the Ravens bearing Tywins seal and that Silversocks is now the Regent of the Seven Kingdom's.

[Greyblades]

Why does he hate Tyrion then?
Because he feels he traded a loving wife for a stunted son.




I would like it officially noted that Lannister allows full access of its Fool to the Ravens bearing Tywins seal and that Silversocks is now the Regent of the Seven Kingdom's.

I think beskar is getting a little too into playing stannis. He certainly hasnt noticed the underlying message from this.

[Beskar]

You think you are Tywin, but you are actually playing Cersei.

[Greyblades]

*shrug* probably, but for the last few days I've been playing all four lannisters on my own, so I havent exactly had much opportunity to refine my tywin. Not to mention, I am not tywin, I only have a rough estimate on what he would do and right now I think he would belittle stannis by making his fool take your messages.

[johnhughthom]

Now, now Beskie, play nice or there might be a localised hurricane headed toward Dragonstone soon. :wink:

[Montmorency]

There are ways of killing a god.

[The Stranger]

You think you are Tywin, but you are actually playing Cersei.

i dont mind playing with cersei. its not like i would be the only one ever to do so either.

[johnhughthom]

i dont mind playing with cersei. its not like i would be the only one ever to do so either.

Not only would you not be the only person to do so ever, you probably wouldn't be the only one playing with her at that specific moment.

[The Stranger]

as long as it is a maid... i dont mind :P

[Double A]

There are ways of killing a god.

Don't you need a space program for that? (http://www.theonion.com/articles/nasa-completes-52year-mission-to-find-kill-god,19263/)

[johnhughthom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw9oX-kZ_9k

[Montmorency]

Don't you need a space program for that? (http://www.theonion.com/articles/nasa-completes-52year-mission-to-find-kill-god,19263/)

Kill all ensouled beings who believe in a given god, and the god dies. :mellow:

[Double A]

Or you could just come up with a better god. Like the flying spaghetti monster!

[Ishmael]

I like it! Are we allowed to officially change our House's religion to Pastafarianism?

[Kival]

I like it! Are we allowed to officially change our House's religion to Pastafarianism?

If you want to lose any support by other houses: Sure ;-).

[White_eyes:D]

You will also have half your Vassals declare war on you.:bounce:

[Double A]

A flying spaghetti monster is just as valid as a guy who stabbed his wife with his sword to make it shoot fire, seven nondescript people who embody various and sometimes contradictory things, and freakin' trees.

[White_eyes:D]

The old gods are where it's at, you all just don't know it yet.:cool:

Plus in the books you can tell they have power....seeing across time and space? They can do that. Can command or influence any animal/beast? They can do that.:book:

[Double A]

Can they influence any animal or beast across time and space? No? Then how is that better than pasta?

[White_eyes:D]

One is a food item, the other is a omnipresent being.

Do the math.:brood:

[Double A]

But the FSM is both...

[White_eyes:D]

If your part of the Kingdom crumbles because you decided to be nuts about a food item, then go right ahead.:bounce:

Edit: Why must the Riverlands be so stubborn?:mean:

[johnhughthom]

Typical, Double A finally pays the game some attention and there is a breakout of spam. I wonder are the two related?

[White_eyes:D]

Nothing, I just need to cool off.

[The Stranger]

agreed.

[johnhughthom]

I'll not be replying to any correspondance on the game until sometime next week, so don't panic if I don't get back to you. I just need a break from it.

[Kival]

I'll not be replying to any correspondance on the game until sometime next week, so don't panic if I don't get back to you. I just need a break from it.

Sure. Shall we restrain ourselves if we have questions or shall we nonetheless just write you and you'll attend to them later?

[The Stranger]

dont worry :) its been a great game sofar! i hope it will be finished

[johnhughthom]

Sure. Shall we restrain ourselves if we have questions or shall we nonetheless just write you and you'll attend to them later?

Flood my inbox.


i hope it will be finished

I'll be brutally honest, that will be more down to players accepting that not everything will go their way and that there are a lot of factors behind results and actions they are unaware of. I have already had to explain reasons and motivation that should have been behind the scenes too often.

But anyway, my hiatus begins...... now!

[The Stranger]

i understand. for myself the things i just said in the thread were in jest.

i think most of it is due to this being new to many players and many things have to be kinda explored so they will have many questions and might not agree with certain things. i do think that nobody however questions how you do things in general and they will accept everything you decide in the end.

i think when we are a few turns into it everybody knows how things go and it will be alot smoother.

it is also hard for me atleast to accept things i dont understand or know of. i know you cannot explain everything however. i think so far you have been doing an outstanding job.

take your well deserved rest :bow:

[johnhughthom]

Oh, just wanted to clarify. I don't mind queries on results, or anything else, I have made a few mistakes that have been quickly rectified when pointed out by the players. I don't want you to be afraid to question something you think is wrong, but there are ways of doing it and I felt my integrity as a host was questioned on a few occasions. I'm not annoyed at any particular player or anything, so don't be thinking that, particularly you guys that have been flooding my inbox (you know who you are :tongue:), I'm always happy to clarify anything.

Really off this time.

[Double A]

Typical, Double A finally pays the game some attention and there is a breakout of spam. I wonder are the two related?

You and your crazy conspiracy theories! :rolleyes5:

[Montmorency]

Hey, woah, John, slow down - what about Buffy?

AUUUGHHH

[Kival]

I'm quite happy that things went so unexpected, it makes more fun this way!

[Greyblades]

Ugh, sometimes I hate roleplaying, I would give anything for a way to make Tywin say yes.

[Kival]

Stannis

You conjour monsters of darkness and consort with False gods, and you are accusing me of trickery?

Tywin.

How do you want to know that? As far as I know at this moment nobody knows about Melissandre.

[Greyblades]

There are rumours of Lady Seylise abandoning the Seven for a foreign god, Tywin is familiar with priests of R'hilor through witnessing Thoros of Myr fight in afew tourneys (and maybe at the battle of Pyke I'm not sure if Tywin was there or not) and after hearing of the great smoke monster that showed up during Eddard's failed escape while thoros was supposedly away chasing Gregor Clegane he put two and two together.

[Kival]

Aha, I don't know if such rumours really exist; I just had the impression nobody knows about Melissandres preaching and her presence at all at this point. Just to remember: We're not allowed to use knowledge out of the books our characters can't possess.

[Beskar]

Thoros of Myr basically put Wildfire upon his sword, and ran around with it. He has no actual powers until the birth of the dragons and when "magic reawakened" within the world.

Tywin most likely thought the goldcloaks to simply be drunken fools than actually believing there is any kind of supernatural powers at work.

[Greyblades]

Except Varys, Sandor clegane, Cercie and even Joffrey were present and corroberated the story.

[Double A]

Varys lies a lot, Sandor will follow Joff's instructions, Joff will follow Cersei's instructions and is crazy, and Cersei is crazy.

[Greyblades]

...Yeah, and?

[The Stranger]

cmon dont make a problem from nothing. he didnt even say something about melisandre, he only said false gods, which can be known for the reasons greyblades stated and he said conjure dark arts which can also be known because of what was witnessed. if tywin would truly believe it or not is debatable but he would definitly use it against stannis if he saw some benefit in doing so. also this is a game so he doesnt have to be like tywin if he doesnt want to.

[Secura]

The fact of the matter is that the post is a problem because it's incredibly metagamey, something that we're trying to avoid slipping into by taking the game in our own strides. Now, I've largely kept quiet in these threads because there should be absolutely no knowledge of Melisandre's existence or anything to link her activities back to Stannis Baratheon, thus I should be keeping to the shadows for the time being, but I find that I have to say something in this instance.

The accusations of sorcery don't annoy me so much, since it's an easy claim to make and it could be falsely interpreted as being the fault of the Starks/Dragonstone's/-insert Lannister enemy here- , but claiming that the nobility are worshipping a 'false god' when there's absolutely no basis for doing so outside of metagamed knowledge? That's a problem.

There are currently no other worshippers of R'hllor in Dragonstone besides Melisandre at this point, so implying that Lady Selyse has converted is utterly unfounded unless one bases their claims on knowledge from the novels. This leads me to wonder; "where are these supposed 'rumours' even coming from?" How is Tywin Lannister hearing about 'false gods' when there's no mentions of such a thing even within Dragonstone itself?

Honestly, every time I see "there's a rumour...", I roll my eyes and sigh heavily because I know it's going to be something metagamey. I signed up to this game because I thought it was an opportunity to engage in a fascinating world and play events entirely differently from the novels, not for information/tactics to be generated from them.

[Kival]

Honestly, every time I see "there's a rumour...", I roll my eyes and sigh heavily because I know it's going to be something metagamey. I signed up to this game because I thought it was an opportunity to engage in a fascinating world and play events entirely differently from the novels, not for information/tactics to be generated from them.

I cannot completly agree here. Yes, nobody should use informations he cannot have in person from the books. But I see no problem in using information, a character has and base tactics or whatever on it.

[Greyblades]

I really dont know why you're going on about it, I only have to persuade JHT that Tywin had the knowledge to make that message, not my opponents.
Heck for all you guys knew I'm making insinuations that Stannis worships the flying spagetti monster.

[Double A]

There's a rumor that Tywin shaves his head because his hair is made of snakes.

[Greyblades]

Yessss, now come here and ssshow me your eyesssssssss!

[White_eyes:D]

Thoros of Myr basically put Wildfire upon his sword, and ran around with it. He has no actual powers until the birth of the dragons and when "magic reawakened" within the world.

Tywin most likely thought the goldcloaks to simply be drunken fools than actually believing there is any kind of supernatural powers at work. The Goldcloaks wouldn't even tell him, think how it would look...."I couldn't catch him because I was scared of a giant smoke monster that was not even there". They didn't even mention that swordsman from Braavos that schooled them in swordplay because it was too embarrassing.

Tywin doesn't put stock in rumors anyway....where the heck is Greyblades even getting this info from?:laugh4:

[Greyblades]

Must... resist... spilling... beans...

...Actually now that I think about it, we didnt encounter Syrio Forell. Even though we sent ser Barristan to capture Arya. Huh.

[White_eyes:D]

Kinda funny that he defected to....MUST RESIST SPILLING BEANS.:bounce:

[The Stranger]

The fact of the matter is that the post is a problem because it's incredibly metagamey, something that we're trying to avoid slipping into by taking the game in our own strides. Now, I've largely kept quiet in these threads because there should be absolutely no knowledge of Melisandre's existence or anything to link her activities back to Stannis Baratheon, thus I should be keeping to the shadows for the time being, but I find that I have to say something in this instance.

The accusations of sorcery don't annoy me so much, since it's an easy claim to make and it could be falsely interpreted as being the fault of the Starks/Dragonstone's/-insert Lannister enemy here- , but claiming that the nobility are worshipping a 'false god' when there's absolutely no basis for doing so outside of metagamed knowledge? That's a problem.

There are currently no other worshippers of R'hllor in Dragonstone besides Melisandre at this point, so implying that Lady Selyse has converted is utterly unfounded unless one bases their claims on knowledge from the novels. This leads me to wonder; "where are these supposed 'rumours' even coming from?" How is Tywin Lannister hearing about 'false gods' when there's no mentions of such a thing even within Dragonstone itself?

Honestly, every time I see "there's a rumour...", I roll my eyes and sigh heavily because I know it's going to be something metagamey. I signed up to this game because I thought it was an opportunity to engage in a fascinating world and play events entirely differently from the novels, not for information/tactics to be generated from them.

i understand this, but it only becomes a problem if everyone starts to make a problem of it. i think john will judge fairly about what someone can know or cant use because he couldnt know. in itself that single accusation of heresy wont mean much.

tywin does have access to varys and varys knows much... lets just leave it a that?

[White_eyes:D]

i understand this, but it only becomes a problem if everyone starts to make a problem of it. i think john will judge fairly about what someone can know or cant use because he couldnt know. in itself that single accusation of heresy wont mean much.

tywin does have access to varys and varys knows much... lets just leave it a that?The fat man????:brood:

I think you better get off the egg nog, he puts even less stock in rumors and is more of a "black hole of information" as far as Tywin knows/cares.:book:

Plus these people that you guys are mentioning have EVERY REASON to hide the truth and are only feigning loyalty for their our gain.(Not that we would know this but come on? why would the fat man and LF be loyal to Tywin like lackey's):shrug:

[Kagemusha]

It is a mild suggestion.Maybe Tywin heard from a spy at Dragonstone of such things, who knows, who cares? I dont think it is a major issue.

[Montmorency]

Stannis has a mage?

How did Tyrell learn this? He must have mages too.

House Martell cannot condone this mage gap!

We will respond by hiring FIRE MAGES FIRE MAGES FIRE MAGES.