IKEA mafia [Concluded]

[edse]

So go into more detail about your thought process in that moment. Why'd you tie up the votes there?

To have a 50/50 situation and see if someone would brake it, which you did. Nothing more than that, I didn't have a strong case against either (although Punisher fitted in the same category as Visor, with my "horrible reasoning")

[atheotes]

I want to be very clear about this, because it's a core principle of my play that won't ever change.

Core principles so far:

1) It is okay for people to guess wrong. Berating them in postgame or insulting them personally is not kosher in my play style.
2) If you are the real cop, faking guilty results on people is extremely extremely bad for the game, as is faking good results.
3) Claiming mason on day one as mafia and having an actual mafia partner verify that you are his mason partner is the single stupidest idea that has ever been conceived of.

I can probably cite you many instances of me laughing at the idea of claiming mason on d1 as mafia, especially under no pressure, time pressure or vote pressure.

And it's come up in many games after that, even if there aren't masons. Pointing out how I've been lynched on d1 as a claimed mason under no time pressure as the single worst thing that village has ever done.

There are some rules I just don't break. Even if they're rules I made for myself.

Hey, i am not voting for you. I am just saying I am not clearing you yet. Anyways, pt. 3 is just hyperbole. Any idea that works is not stupid.

fwiw, i dont read Edse as scum. he is town in my book.

[atheotes]

I know, without a doubt, that Visor killed johnhughthom.

hmm...interesting. I do see the probability.
Are you saying Visor did not kill Punisher or are you saying Visor killed John?

[GeneralHankerchief]

I know, without a doubt, that Visor killed johnhughthom.

Hardclaim something or my vote stays where it is.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Yep, hard claim vigilante or be lynched basically. Or hard claim bus driver, either way.

Once that happens, we lynch outside of the claims, and the bus driver does nothing.

Then, scum and vig likely shoot each other, saving us from having to make the 50/50 call.

[Visor]

I know, without a doubt, that Visor killed johnhughthom.

The only way I killed jht was if GeneralHankerchief was bus driven with gh

[Visor]

You do realise I claimed immediately and there is no countetclaim

So thinking otherwise is quite wrong

[GeneralHankerchief]

The only way I killed jht was if GeneralHankerchief was bus driven with gh

Once more, in English?

[Visor]

Once more, in English?

I targeted you last night with a vigilante shot.

The only possible way that you did not die was if you and JHT or Punisher switched places. (that role is a bus driver)

[GeneralHankerchief]

I targeted you last night with a vigilante shot.

The only possible way that you did not die was if you and JHT or Punisher switched places. (that role is a bus driver)

Oh, I was referring to the fact that you said if I got bus driven with myself. :laugh4:

[Visor]

Oh, I was referring to the fact that you said if I got bus driven with myself. :laugh4:

oh lol

sorry

i am fairly hungover and english is not my strong suit atm :p

[Al Sipsclar]

Why edse is not town for tying Punisher with AA?

[atheotes]

unvote, vote: Double A

vetoed.

What was your rationale behind this vote? Why did you not want a tie between Punisher and Double A?

[Eldrick]

unvote

edse voted for Punisher to tie with AA. I don't see him doing that if he's Punisher's teammate.

[Eldrick]

You're right. Pizza is capable of taking that risk. And I really don't like all this role hunting he's doing. Trying to get the vig and bus driver to claim.

Pizza

[Eldrick]

Vote: Pizza

Don't know if you guys are picky about format here. Sooh knows I'm used to DM tags.

[edse]

Yep, hard claim vigilante or be lynched basically. Or hard claim bus driver, either way.

Once that happens, we lynch outside of the claims, and the bus driver does nothing.

Then, scum and vig likely shoot each other, saving us from having to make the 50/50 call.

I am neither, and I doubt there actually is a bus driver, because if Visor was bus driven from GH to jht, why did the mafia kill themselves? I don't understand why Visor comlicate his story that much though.

[Visor]

I am neither, and I doubt there actually is a bus driver, because if Visor was bus driven from GH to jht, why did the mafia kill themselves? I don't understand why Visor comlicate his story that much though.

?

what are you on about?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Vote: Askthepizzaguy

I'm not answering any further questions at all.

Either solve for mafia or watch the mason team implode thanks to your vote. Up to you, silly buns.

[Visor]

Vote: el barto

[edse]

?

what are you on about?

You killed jht.

If you were bus driven from GH to jht, who redirected the other kill onto Punisher? Two bus drivers?

[Visor]

You killed jht.

If you were bus driven from GH to jht, who redirected the other kill onto Punisher? Two bus drivers?

Sk? I guess. But why no kill n1?

I didn't shoot jht, I shot gh, stop saying otherwise

[Sooh]

Votes:

GH (1) - El Barto

El Barto (3) - Al Sips, atheotes, Visor

edse (2) - GH, Golden1Knight

Visor (1) - edse

Askthepizzaguy (2) - Eldrick, Askthepizzaguy

Not voting: Raith Kemmler, BSmith

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1460926800.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1460926800.png)

[BSmith]

Hardclaim something or my vote stays where it is.

I very much dislike role-fishing. vote: GH

[atheotes]

You killed jht.

If you were bus driven from GH to jht, who redirected the other kill onto Punisher? Two bus drivers?

What do you mean by Visor killing John?

I hope the low activity is due to weekend...

[atheotes]

I very much dislike role-fishing. vote: GH

Seriously? that seems like a lazy vote at best. There are other people who have fished for the roles even more strongly...

[atheotes]

Vote: Askthepizzaguy

I'm not answering any further questions at all.

Either solve for mafia or watch the mason team implode thanks to your vote. Up to you, silly buns.

You are being very prickly! the current voting pattern is silly...3 votes on the leading candidate and 2 votes each on 3 other ppl...Behave like town and make your vote count.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Seriously? that seems like a lazy vote at best. There are other people who have fished for the roles even more strongly...

Yeah, really. I'm definitely rolefishing. It's called trying to solve the game.

[atheotes]

Yeah, really. I'm definitely rolefishing. It's called trying to solve the game.

:inquisitive: huh?

Why are you still voting Edse?

[GeneralHankerchief]

:inquisitive: huh?

Why are you still voting Edse?

Sorry, should have specified. I was in agreement with your post against BSmith.

[Sooh]

Votes:

GH (2) - El Barto, BSmith

El Barto (3) - Al Sips, atheotes, Visor

edse (2) - GH, Golden1Knight

Visor (1) - edse

Askthepizzaguy (2) - Eldrick, Askthepizzaguy

Not voting: Raith Kemmler

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1460926800.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1460926800.png)

3 hours until DL

[Golden1Knight]

Vote: El Barto

[Sooh]

Votes:

GH (2) - El Barto, BSmith

El Barto (4) - Al Sips, atheotes, Visor, Golden1Knight

edse (1) - GH

Visor (1) - edse

Askthepizzaguy (2) - Eldrick, Askthepizzaguy

Not voting: Raith Kemmler

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1460926800.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1460926800.png)

2 hours until DL

[Sooh]

Less than an hour now. No change in votes.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Running out the clock.

[Sooh]

20 minutes, no change.

[Sooh]

That is a lynch!

GH (2) - El Barto, BSmith

El Barto (4) - Al Sips, atheotes, Visor, Golden1Knight

edse (1) - GH

Visor (1) - edse

Askthepizzaguy (2) - Eldrick, Askthepizzaguy

Not voting: Raith Kemmler

[Sooh]

I'm not sure you realize how hard it is to determine cost when you're a piece of furniture. Is $50 a lot? Perhaps if you pay that much for a napkin or a McDonalds meal, but not really if you're talking about tables, chairs and shelves. Half of the furniture didn't even know their own price tag, or so they claimed. They all claimed to be special, but at the same time cheap and ordinary.

Take yesterday for example. The glass bowl, Firande, he knew his price tag had said $29.99, but the other furniture thought that was extremely pricy. After all, he was just a piece of glass. So they hit him and made him break in half, assuming that the Olssons would glue him back together if he was expensive in any way. They threw him out though, and the furniture were sad about losing yet another one of their own.

Price had never been the issue on the first day, because if so I think even the furniture would realize that $9.99 for a wall clock is a cheap deal.

Today however, price had certainly been part of the deal. A few pieces of furniture even claimed to have seen or heard or somehow figured things out in the dead of night. In the end they decided on one particular cabinet which looked suspicious enough.

El Barto has been lynched.

- Who? Me? Now why would I ever be the target of such a barbaric practice as this. Surely even you, as Ikea furniture, must be better than that!

- HA! We got you!

- Whatever do you mean?

- You said "you, as Ikea furniture", you didn't include yourself!

- Oh, but surely you must see that that was just a figure of speech. After all, it is you, who are, mostly at least, Ikea furniture who have condemned me with your sentence.

If you looked really closely at the glass door cabinet at that point you could see a slight steam on the inside of the glass. He was sweating.

- Don't even try it, sport. You've been had!

- Yeah mate! We got you, fair and square!

The glass door cabinet huffed and looked at them squarely (because his glass panes are square, get it?).

- Alright. If this is to be the end result I have just a few things to tell you before I go. First of all, you DISGUST me! What a bunch of sniveling, bickering, cheap pieces of trash you are. IKEA! Who can ever take a shop which names its furniture with strange and unnatural letters such as Æ, Ø and Å seriously? You can't even find them on a normal keyboard! It's so... incoherent!

I have hated every moment of pretending to be this inferior Malsjö piece of crap!

I have a proper name!

https://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a48/myha82/IKEA%20mafia/Eichholtz%20Grand%20Royale%20with%20doors%20-%20Goon_zpsvsppn4fw.png

I am Eichholtz, Grand Royale glass door cabinet, vanilla mafia.

I am no cheap piece of wood. MY price tag said £3 300!

Now, do your worst. I am no longer happy sharing my environment with you trashy trash!


http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/bla_1461013200.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/bla_1461013200.png)

Please remember to send in your night actions within the deadline or else it will be forfeit.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So, with 2 flipped mafia, unless you believe the rest of the mafia is EXACTLY Askthepizzaguy and Golden1Knight, I guess that resolves that issue.

Again, why claiming mason as mafia is derpa derpa derpa derpa doo dad dumb.

[Visor]

yay

knew i should have shot takhisis n1 instead of clearing the wagons.

sorry zack.

[Eldrick]

It could be exactly you two, but it most likely isn't.

[Golden1Knight]

BSmith, edse and Raith Kemmler, we can lynch any of them. Even so, I think BSmith should go first.

[El Barto]

I would have brought decently-designed, classy furniture to the world, if it hadn't been for you mangy dogs and your meddling kid!

[Eldrick]

BSmith, edse and Raith Kemmler, we can lynch any of them. Even so, I think BSmith should go first.

I'm still against edse lynch. He's the one that voted Punisher D1 to tie the vote with AA. Stupid move to do as a teammate. Why put your teammate into a 50/50 chance of dying when you could just as easily voted someone else to the same spot?

[Eldrick]

Votes:
ATPG (1) - Eldrick
Visor (1) - edse,
Raith Kemmler (2) - johnhughthom, Golden1Knight
Edse (1) - Raith Kemmler
Punisher (2) - GH, Double A
El Barto (1) - BSmith
Al Sips (1) - Punisher
Double A (3) - Visor, atheotes, Al Sips
GH (2) - El Barto, Askthepizzaguy

Not voting:

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1460667600.png


45 mins to go


unvote: vote: Punisher can we at least have a little tie.

He could have voted for Raith or GH and gotten the same tie result he was going for, but he voted Punisher.

Edse is clear.

[Al Sipsclar]

Folks here are notorious for bussing their teammates for town cred. And FWIW, RK and GH might be his teammates as well.

[Eldrick]

Lynch results with known information.



Votes:
AdmiralKleenex (6) - BSmith, Golden1Knight, Jarema, atheotes, Al Sips, Raith Kemmler
Choxorn (1) - El Barto
Jarema (9) - edse, Punisher, seireikhaan, AdmiralKleenex, Visor, johnhughthom, Choxorn, GH, askthepizzaguy
johnhughthom (1) - Double A

Not voting:





Votes:
ATPG (1) - Eldrick
Raith Kemmler (2) - johnhughthom, Golden1Knight
Edse (1) - Raith Kemmler
Punisher (3) - GH, Double A, edse
El Barto (1) - BSmith
Al Sips (1) - Punisher
Double A (4) - Visor, atheotes, Al Sips, Askthepizzaguy
GH (1) - El Barto



That is a lynch!

GH (2) - El Barto, BSmith
El Barto (4) - Al Sips, atheotes, Visor, Golden1Knight
edse (1) - GH
Visor (1) - edse
Askthepizzaguy (2) - Eldrick, Askthepizzaguy

Not voting: Raith Kemmler


Pizza and Golden cleared by mason claim (or they are the remaining scum). Edse cleared by D2 actions IMO.



Votes:
AdmiralKleenex (6) - BSmith, Golden1Knight, Jarema, atheotes, Al Sips, Raith Kemmler
Choxorn (1) - El Barto
Jarema (9) - edse, Punisher, seireikhaan, AdmiralKleenex, Visor, johnhughthom, Choxorn, GH, askthepizzaguy
johnhughthom (1) - Double A

Not voting:





Votes:
ATPG (1) - Eldrick
Raith Kemmler (2) - johnhughthom, Golden1Knight
Edse (1) - Raith Kemmler
Punisher (3) - GH, Double A, edse
El Barto (1) - BSmith
Al Sips (1) - Punisher
Double A (4) - Visor, atheotes, Al Sips, Askthepizzaguy
GH (1) - El Barto




GH (2) - El Barto, BSmith
El Barto (4) - Al Sips, atheotes, Visor, Golden1Knight
edse (1) - GH
Visor (1) - edse
Askthepizzaguy (2) - Eldrick, Askthepizzaguy

Not voting: Raith Kemmler


There's probably a scum on Barto's train (Al Sips, athetos, Visor). Of those 3, I think Al is most likely.
GH looks bad for staying on edse's train, but not too much.

[Eldrick]

athetos and Al Sips are voting together on each lynch. They are also both on the lynched wagon D2 and D3.

[Eldrick]

athetos and Al Sips are voting together on each lynch. They are also both on the lynched wagon D2 and D3.

Probably not teammates, but weird nonetheless.

[atheotes]

Probably not teammates, but weird nonetheless.

Visor is also on those lynches. Al sips has mentioned that he is sheeping Visor...

[Askthepizzaguy]

Visor is a good player to sheep this game.

[Eldrick]

Visor is also on those lynches. Al sips has mentioned that he is sheeping Visor...

You guys didn't vote the same as Visor D1, but good point.

[Eldrick]

There's most likely a scum on AK's D1 lynch train

AdmiralKleenex (6) - BSmith, Golden1Knight, Jarema, atheotes, Al Sips, Raith Kemmler

If it's Golden, so is Pizza.

If it isn't, and I believe ATP that they are masons, then it's between BSmith, athetos, Al, and Raith

[Eldrick]

My gut says between the 4 that BSmith is most likely.

[Eldrick]

I dunno. The train on GH was only Barto and BSmith. What's the likelihood here that scum will vote together on a train when there aren't any townies on it?

[Eldrick]

And if BSmith is scum, GH almost assuredly isn't.

[atheotes]

I think Visor should take another shot at GH.

The mentioning of "vanilla mafia" and redirected hit, makes me think it could be a mafia power/game mechanic.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I think Visor should shoot a mafioso because if he does that's probably good for village.

[Eldrick]

Those 2 things could be one and the same.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Yeah I was just kidding around.

[atheotes]

Those 2 things could be one and the same.

well...i am being specific about something. Pizza is making a general statement probably being sarcastic that i am stating the obvious...:shrug:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Actually I thought it was funny as a stand alone statement of obviousness, it wasn't meant as mockery towards atheotes, but of my general help level towards the village so far which has been abysmal other than claiming the role I randed.

[Sooh]

For the past couple of nights there had indeed been rustling and bustling about in the living room. Furniture had moved about, sabotaging other furniture, but this night a saboteur was sabotaged. When morning came he could not stand on his leg anymore. He collapsed, leaving behind a torn cushion and a lone leg standing.

Visorslash has been killed.
https://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a48/myha82/IKEA%20mafia/arvika-fotskammel%20-%20vig_zpszgnaj8su.jpg


He was Arvika footstool, town 2 shot vigilante.



http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461186000.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461186000.png)

[Al Sipsclar]

Vote: BSmith. There's nothing wrong with the role-fishing, but everything is with lazy off-wagon voting.

[Sooh]

Vote count:

BSmith (1) - Al Sipsclar

Not voting: Raith Kemmler, BSmith, atheotes, Golden1Knight, GeneralHankerchief, edse, Eldrick, Askthepizzaguy

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461186000.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461186000.png)

[GeneralHankerchief]

Vote: BSmith. There's nothing wrong with the role-fishing, but everything is with lazy off-wagon voting.

100%

Vote: BSmith

[Askthepizzaguy]

Vote: Bsmith why not

[Eldrick]

Vote: BSmith

[Eldrick]

And if BSmith is scum, GH almost assuredly isn't.

Requoting for relevance. Train on GH was El Barto and BSmith. If he flips scum, GH is clear imo.

[Askthepizzaguy]

If GH is clear the game is incredibly easy.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I know, without a doubt, that Visor killed johnhughthom.

So, edse, what's all this about?

Vote Edse

[Golden1Knight]

Vote: BSmith

[Askthepizzaguy]

If you read BSmith, Al Sips, and GH through the lens of El Barto, I would recommend resolving edse first.

Edse needs to hard claim now.

[Askthepizzaguy]

look at the day where there was a tie that I broke in Punisher's favor.

Watch El Barto.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I don't think it's eldrick or atheotes either.

Basically it's edse or BSmith and I don't believe it's BSmith but lol me if thats wrong again.

Edse was trying to get some separation between himself and punisher, bussing the lowest posting mafioso is standard tactics.

[Al Sipsclar]

Unvote; vote: edse.

[Raith Kemmler]

Harried voting in sympathy to Atpg's point,

Vote: Edse

[atheotes]

I don't think it's eldrick or atheotes either.

Basically it's edse or BSmith and I don't believe it's BSmith but lol me if thats wrong again.

Edse was trying to get some separation between himself and punisher, bussing the lowest posting mafioso is standard tactics.

I dont think there was any need to buss Punisher at the point. 3 ppl were tied on 2 votes each (Punisher, Raith and GH) and Double A had 3. He moved his vote from Visor to Punisher. I can understand bussing your partner when there is some suspicion on them. Here it was not necessary.

I havent seen any bus driver claims. from what we have seen, there is no reason for any town power role not to claim anymore. How did GH escape Visor's kill attempt? I am thinking GH is godfather kind of role and hence Punisher got killed instead. The number of starting mafia might be 4.
Vote: GH

[atheotes]

On the Punisher votes, i can see GH's vote as bussing but fail to understand why Edse would feel the need to do it.

[edse]

So, edse, what's all this about?

Vote Edse

Visor killed jht, what's there to explain? I know it and the bus driver, if he really exists, know it.


If you read BSmith, Al Sips, and GH through the lens of El Barto, I would recommend resolving edse first.

Edse needs to hard claim now.

You know I don't claim.


look at the day where there was a tie that I broke in Punisher's favor.

Watch El Barto.

Where he for a moment voted together with me on Visor? Now that's distancing. Meanwhile you called Punisher your mason partner and outright saved him from being lynched (50/50).

[Sooh]

Vote count:

BSmith (3) - , GeneralHankerchief, Golden1Knight, Eldrick

edse (3) - Askthepizzaguy, Al Sipsclar, Raith Kemmler

GeneralHankerchief (1) - atheotes

Not voting: BSmith, edse,

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461186000.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461186000.png)

[atheotes]

Visor killed jht, what's there to explain? I know it and the bus driver, if he really exists, know it.


When you say Visor killed John, it doesnt add up. Why would punisher get killed by his team mates? Why would Visor lie about his kill?
There have been no claims of anyone being the bus driver. It doesnt seem likely at this point.

[Eldrick]

Visor killed jht, what's there to explain? I know it and the bus driver, if he really exists, know it.



You know I don't claim.



Where he for a moment voted together with me on Visor? Now that's distancing. Meanwhile you called Punisher your mason partner and outright saved him from being lynched (50/50).

What's to explain is HOW you know it. The only 2 things that make sense to me are you personally altered his shot or know who did.

You are denying being bus driver. The other thing that comes to mind is redirect or.

Unvote
Vote:edse

Explain how you know or die.

[Eldrick]

If my count is correct, maj is 6, right?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Majority lynch isn't a thing on this board unless stated, I don't think we've run a maj lynch game yet.

@ Edse continuing to toss suspicion on me is bogus.

I know from a neutral and claim-ignoring POV my vote that saved punisher is bad and looks suspicious. But thankfully I have an actual mason role and an actual mason partner to cover up my abortion of a game so far.

Edse, there's no way you're not lying here. The only way the mafia kill was on their own team is with a town bus driver.

No villager has claimed bus driver. You're not even claiming to be said person. After calling our vig a liar and trying to get him lynched, who has been responsible for all the mafia deaths so far, I'm not lynching outside of you and only you, until you give a full claim.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Also if "you know I don't claim" is intended to be a cross game policy position, you've claimed before so that's also not true.

[Askthepizzaguy]

With 9 alive and 1 death per night and 1 per day, the masons can be ignored outright until final five. In which case if we haven't solved it by then, a lynch on either of us loses the game for us and can be considered forced.

Unless there's five mafia this game (outrageous on this board, usually 3 is the maximum even in larger games).

Which would be possible only if basically everyone left alive has a town power role.

So unless everyone here is a town power role, G1K and I are masons and should be left alive until final 5.

This is phrased conditionally but is not conditional.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Just noticed the "bus driver, if he really exists" line.

Okay, so now you're claiming that you're not the bus driver.

That leaves tracker or watcher.

So you should out your tracking data / watcher data and help solve. I don't know what you're doing, but it looks like bussing Punisher is the only thing you really have as your defense. Which, given a claimed vig and a claimed mason pair, makes bussing your ticket to late game.

Because the vig and the masons would always have to die first. That makes bussing viable since you don't need to be murdered immediately because the scum has a process of elimination which would de-prioritize you if you were town lynching scum there.

It's also a 50/50 spot. Gambling the flip goes your way on a low-posting partner is anti-analysis and basically the only move the scum team has to win a game like this except pure luck.

Bottom line- reveal what you know and how you know it, and then I'm still lynching you to verify that data is real.

[Askthepizzaguy]

About GeneralHankerchief:

Do a search for just Sooh's vote counts this game, and watch Punisher and El Barto.

Do you firmly believe GH is Punisher and El Barto's mafia partner based on that pattern, atheotes?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Vote count:

ATPG (1) - Khaan
AdmiralKleenex (2) - GH, johnhughthom
Khaan (1) - ATPG
Punisher (1) - Raith Kemmler
GH (1) - AdmiralKleenex
Visor (1) - Jarema
atheotes (1) - El Barto
Jarema (4) - Visor, Al Sips, edse, Punisher
johnhughthom (1) - Double A

Not voting: atheotes, BSmith, Choxorn, Golden1Knight


I think I'd rather see General Handkerchief in more contention.

Unvote;

Vote: GH


Why don't you like me?
@Sooh (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=99877): please keep the man under control.

Seriously? The jarrema lynch is silly and it's either voting you for voting the wannabe-you in a silly manner or him for voting you in a slightly less silly manner. vote: GeneralHankerchief.


Vote count:

AdmiralKleenex (2) - GH, johnhughthom
Khaan (1) - ATPG
GH (4) - AdmiralKleenex, Raith Kemmler, El Barto, Golden1Knight
Visor (1) - Jarema
Jarema (5) - Visor, Al Sips, edse, Punisher, seireikhaan
johnhughthom (1) - Double A

Not voting: atheotes, BSmith, Choxorn


Vote count:

AdmiralKleenex (2) - GH, johnhughthom
GH (6) - AdmiralKleenex, Raith Kemmler, El Barto, Golden1Knight, Askthepizzaguy, Choxorn
Visor (1) - Jarema
Jarema (5) - Visor, Al Sips, edse, Punisher, seireikhaan
johnhughthom (1) - Double A

Not voting: atheotes, BSmith


Vote count:

AdmiralKleenex (3) - GH, johnhughthom, askthepizzaguy
GH (5) - AdmiralKleenex, Raith Kemmler, El Barto, Golden1Knight, Choxorn
Jarema (5) - Visor, Al Sips, edse, Punisher, seireikhaan
johnhughthom (1) - Double A
Choxorn (1) - Jarema

Not voting: atheotes, BSmith


Vote count:

AdmiralKleenex (7) - GH, johnhughthom, askthepizzaguy, Visor, BSmith, Golden1Knight, Jarema
GH (4) - AdmiralKleenex, Raith Kemmler, El Barto, Choxorn
Jarema (4) - Al Sips, edse, Punisher, seireikhaan
johnhughthom (1) - Double A

Not voting: atheotes


Vote count

AdmiralKleenex (8) - GH, askthepizzaguy, BSmith, Golden1Knight, Jarema, atheotes, Al Sips, Raith Kemmler

GH (1) - El Barto

Jarema (7) - edse, Punisher, seireikhaan, AdmiralKleenex, Visor, johnhughthom, Choxorn

johnhughthom (1) - Double A

El Barto and Punisher hail from CFC where vote movement doesn't really occur that much, especially on D1.

So, El Barto was hard bussing GH on d1 if they're both partners.

Compare GH with Edse. Which one looks worse based on D1?

[Eldrick]

With 9 alive and 1 death per night and 1 per day, the masons can be ignored outright until final five. In which case if we haven't solved it by then, a lynch on either of us loses the game for us and can be considered forced.

Unless there's five mafia this game (outrageous on this board, usually 3 is the maximum even in larger games).

Which would be possible only if basically everyone left alive has a town power role.

So unless everyone here is a town power role, G1K and I are masons and should be left alive until final 5.

This is phrased conditionally but is not conditional.

Claiming this to not be the case, just FYI.

I am vanilla town

[Eldrick]

Also agree that if we get to f5 with pizza and golden still alive that we lynch in them.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Yeah, which is problem number 57 in claiming masons with your mafia buddy on day 1.

It necessarily always makes you and your partner die. Gambling your one remaining partner (or two?) this game doesn't get lynched or shot is silly stuff.

Essentially, it makes it so (in a 3 person team) town only needs to correctly find one whole scumbag on their own merits.

I do off the wall stuff as scum but it's always to win the game. This tactic is team-destroying and I never set out to destroy my team at square one of a new game, as town or scum.

If I take a gamble it's usually to save a scummy partner, because that's more likely to win a game because it's too wolfy to be a wolf.

Like, that's why me saving Punisher legitimately looks bad for me in a vacuum. That's a move I'd make as scum. It's only the masonry saving my ass this game.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I have hopefully game solving analysis coming in a few mins.

[Eldrick]

Why did you say punisher was your buddy first?

[BSmith]

vote: edse it is the only case that makes sense to me at thia time, and I'd really like to avoid dying today. I am vanilla town as well.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Why did you say punisher was your buddy first?
My estimation was in a game this small, most of the players would be vanilla. Drawing a murder onto a vanilla townie that otherwise cannot clear himself (Punisher being a low-poster, unlikely to draw a murder or clear himself otherwise) and one I could plausibly claim as a partner too.

How else would I know he's villager? Mason partner or peek only. So after I die, mafia should have always murdered Punisher.

Idea was:

1) Draw murder to me, away from the town vigilante.
2) In so doing, convince the mafia that Punisher was my mason buddy, keeping Golden1Knight alive.
3) Once Punisher-villager dies, Golden1Knight hard claims, getting a mason deep into the game, possibly endgame, with proof of masonry.strongly and repeatedly breadcrumbed.
4) I also strongly hinted for the vigilante to NOT shoot inside the low posters and I aggressively tried to lynch everyone who tried to divert the lynch in that direction.

I didn't know Punisher was scum. But even in such an event, our mason claim fixes the problem of me looking bad from that mistake.

It was a gamble and even in the bad scenario town does ok. Visor and myself and G1K survived N1 and N2.

Surprised the scums didn't shoot into us. If they did, they were bus driven.

But edse has basically hard claimed not town bus driver. And no one else has claimed town bus driver.

As such, edse is the scum bus driver.

Analysis shows....

[Askthepizzaguy]

Votes:
El Barto (1)- Visor

Not voting: BSmith, Golden1Knight, El Barto, atheotes, Al Sips, Raith Kemmler, edse, Punisher, seireikhaan, johnhughthom, GH, askthepizzaguy, Double A

Going to bed now. See you slackers when I wake up! *passes out hugs*

At start of day 2, we're now aware there's a vigilante, and a now known-townie is voting for El Barto straight off the bat. How does the scum react?


**MOD ANNOUNCEMENT**

Eldrick will be subbing in for Khaan.

Votes:
El Barto (1) - Visor
GeneralHankerchief (1) - El Barto
ATPG (1) - GH

Not voting: BSmith, Golden1Knight, atheotes, Al Sips, Raith Kemmler, edse, Punisher, Eldrick, johnhughthom, askthepizzaguy, Double A



Votes:
El Barto (1) - Visor
GeneralHankerchief (1) - El Barto
ATPG (2) - GH, atheotes
Visor (1) - edse
Raith Kemmler (1) - johnhughthom
Edse (1) - Raith Kemmler

Not voting: BSmith, Golden1Knight, Al Sips, Punisher, Eldrick, askthepizzaguy, Double A

Not a great look for Edse here. So is El Barto bussing GH on day 1 and day 2?

((Aside:


PIS?

Vote: ATPG

Unless I'm missing something Pizza's claimed, over the course of the game, mason and vig, neither of which would theoretically give him enough insight about the game setup to definitively rule out the presence or lack thereof a doctor.
Click the quote to see what the below is referring to for context:

At the start of the previous night phase. What changed?
Based on my behavior thus far, and the facts known to the uninformed, this is a reasonable line of attack against me. One that would occur to a villager a lot, in my opinion. PIS based on the claims I was making is a legitimate tinfoil. Especially after I hard claimed not being mason after saying I'd never reverse. This reaction seems genuine and could be alignment-indicating for GH. He's asking questions and it looks like it is solving because although he suspects me, it looks like he is also strongly considering the possibility I'm my usual lying villager self.

His question in the third quote SEEKS INFORMATION useful to determining my alignment, reasonably.

Is GH good enough to fake this? Of course he is, that's why he's this year's champion. But it reads genuine to me, assuming you can read him this game, it reads one way- the villagery way.))


Back to the main point.


Votes:
GeneralHankerchief (1) - El Barto
ATPG (2) - atheotes, Eldrick
Visor (1) - edse
Raith Kemmler (2) - johnhughthom, Golden1Knight
Edse (1) - Raith Kemmler
Atheotes (1)- Visor
Punisher (1) - GH
El Barto (1) - BSmith

Not voting: BSmith, Al Sips, Punisher, askthepizzaguy, Double A

3 1/2 hour to go!

Look at where BSmith is voting.


vote: el barto


I don't know. But atpg's claimed mason is voting for him. Also atpg's being voted by atheotes and Visor takes his vote off atheotes before atheotes can be tied for the lynch. So Visor's playing silly buggers.
El Barto is talking to Punisher here.

It looks like atheotes is villager here. I don't see Bart making this post if atheotes is the third scum.


mat

vote el barto and lets be done with it

Visor implores Punisher (mat) to place the third vote on El Barto in a close tally. Not willing to bus, Punisher obv refuses.

Now look here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?151575-IKEA-mafia-In-Play&p=2053693833&viewfull=1#post2053693833

There are two votes on scum Barto, and edse is reacting to my mason claim and questioning me.





Mason chat:

"Ok, Golden1Knight, this is the breadcrumb I'm using.

Sword = Knight
Seventeen = Where you appear on the player list
If I took shots here, I could get into a lot of trouble = My mason partner's name is on this list

Three clues in one post directly after calling myself lock clear. That's the crumb. You can explain the crumb if I die and you need to prove you are the mason.

Oh, forgot the last one

The other names on that list are informal. Yours is spelled formally, indicating you're different from the others."



"This is me deliberately trying to get the mafia to murder Punisher instead of you, Golden1Knight.

I will breadcrumb that later on.

#Reminding myself to do this."

"288 references you, btw.

This should help people understand that Punisher is the ruse, you're the real mason."

Pizza-Golden1Knight real mason team

Tried to draw murder onto Punisher and away from my real partner, but Punisher couldn't confirm he was my mason partner so.

I tried to draw murder away from vigilante because he's more valuable and it would lock clear GK and also possibly get Punisher cleared via murder if he's innocent.

Time to start generating a vote record that can be analyzed. Votes on pizza, Golden, or folks I'm village-reading are pretty bad folks.

It's causing me to abandon the strategy which would have been useful.

If villagers would just stop trying to lynch villagers we'd get somewhere. It's really hard to find the scums when there's so much villager on villager voting. Why I got so pissy yesterday.
How do you know that Punisher isn't the vig?

This question is not solving for village.

mason claims. Says this gamble took place regarding Punisher.

Punisher hasn't been revealed to be mafia yet. Punisher isn't the vig, of course, but how did I know that?

I didn't know that. Why would anyone think I knew that?

It was a guess, a shot in the dark.

Even if you legitimately thought I knew that somehow, why are you fishing a claimed mason for more information?

This question is something a scumbag asks in order to look like solving. Compare it to the question quoted earlier that GH posed me.

The two questions serve different purposes. One doesn't know if I'm town or scum, and comes coupled with a vote and real looking suspicion.

Edse's question doesn't come with a vote, but looks like it is seeking information a villager doesn't need to solve the game. And it is also a question that is posed as suspicion, not curiosity. If you believe I'm a mason you're not asking me to out why someone isn't a vigilante if you believe I have such data. So the question can only be meant to doubt me and cast doubt on me in a critical moment.


the raith vote sucks

the atpg vote sucks

the visor vote sucks

vote el barto

@GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=16104) @edse (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=94317)

i know you're watching

nut up and vote barto.


I'll humour you. unvote; vote:El Barto

Doesn't want to be lynched obviously. Wants to look like a villager here I guess, faking unconcern with his own life.

This is the strategy of a mafia team who is not anti-bussing. Anti-bussing mafia teams don't self-vote, because that's even less useful than bussing is.


Vote: El Barto. He's too reasonable to be town. Reminds me of ROTSC.

Sorry for inactivity, but I have to go back to work.

Is Al Sipsclar mafia here? Doubtful. He snapped up Visor's call to arms.


El Barto just claimed to not be the vig

interesting

El Barto the villager should never be self-voting here, because he needs to be providing vigilante cover.

That's why I, a fricking mason, was willing to try to provide vigilante cover by claiming vig right off the bat on d2.

Because the vig is most valuable player on the town side. The vig knows for a fact I'm lying and it's probably to draw the murder onto me, because I could have sold that, I had beef with Zack this game. I am also always always always a murder this game as a mason, so deciding to die before the vigilante is ALWAYS good for village, because it gives village more vigilante shots.

But a vanilla townie who knows there's likely a vigilante should never be self-voting, because that tells the mafia team he's not the vig.

It's terrible, and Visor and several others are voting him and calling for his head.

So, what does the scum team do? Does Punisher bus him? Does edse answer Visor's direct call to arms?

I suspect El Barto is vanilla townie or scum now. So more info is needed


El Barto

There's a very real chance I vote with you if you vote for not yourself, not me, not visor, not my mason buddy, not Eldrick

Let's see where he votes IF I toss him a life-line.


Then let's go back to GH who still hasn't explained his behaviour.

unvote; vote: GeneralHankerchief

Out of everyone here, El Barto's choicest lynch is GH, who was under heavy suspicion this game and is a plausible mislynch.

Or this is a bus.

Do you think it's a bus?

I don't think it's a bus.

Now what is the vote count?


Votes:
ATPG (1) - Eldrick
Visor (1) - edse,
Raith Kemmler (2) - johnhughthom, Golden1Knight
Edse (1) - Raith Kemmler
Punisher (1) - GH
El Barto (2) - BSmith, Al Sips
Al Sips (1) - Punisher
Double A (2) - Visor, atheotes
GH (2) - El Barto, Askthepizzaguy

Not voting: Double A

Just over 90 minutes to go!

Al Sips mafia here? GH mafia here?

What about Raith Kemmler?

Possible.

We know it wasn't double a.


sounds good

vote: punisher

Double A hero shats Punisher with the above vote count, making it a way tie.

How does the scum react?


Five-way rand? Bloody hell.

Stalling, waiting for town to screw this up.


I'll continue sheeping Visor and unvote; vote: Double A. Town AA is never that involved in the game.

This can be scummy for Al Sipsclar, because it saves El Barto and Punisher. But compare it to earlier stuff which is villagery.


Votes:
ATPG (1) - Eldrick
Visor (1) - edse,
Raith Kemmler (2) - johnhughthom, Golden1Knight
Edse (1) - Raith Kemmler
Punisher (2) - GH, Double A
El Barto (1) - BSmith
Al Sips (1) - Punisher
Double A (3) - Visor, atheotes, Al Sips
GH (2) - El Barto, Askthepizzaguy

Not voting:

45 mins to go

And if you buy that theory......................... then what was Punisher doing? Voting a fellow mafioso when El Barto is under threat AND Visor was calling for more votes on El Barto?

Seems like an odd play for scums.


Double A voted in post #668

Edse just hangin' out watching the round unfold.


unvote: vote: Punisher can we at least have a little tie.

This is the move. This is the move which edse claims makes him a villager.

Ok. Kudos, the tie is now 3-3-2-2 etc. That means there's a 50/50 chance Punisher dies here.

I didn't like this vote change because there's 20 minutes left in the round, and Edse's move looked like a mafia twitch to me.

Perhaps to save one of the vote getters that had 2 votes, or to try to save a scum Double A. I didn't know.

But I felt like whatever Edse's move was, it was a scum move, so I countered it automatically.

Sorry about that, AA.

Once I counter that vote, edse says nothing and lets the clock run out.

-----------------------------------

So right now, Edse and Raith Kemmler look the worst. Raith only because the scums didn't hop on him to save themselves at one point, but it wasn't strictly necessary.

Meanwhile, this is stuff edse says overnight:


Famous last words. You could be dead in less than three minutes.

Yeah feels like scum taunting, not real banter.

Next day


Votes:

GH (1) - El Barto

Not voting: Eldrick, Golden1Knight, Raith Kemmler, GH, edse, BSmith, Visor, atheotes, Al Sips, Askthepizzaguy

I shot general handkerchief last night, must be a bus driver

Visor has no reason to lie here, so a bus driver is likely, and it would be a scum bus driver, since no one claimed town bus driver.

And again, EB is trying to lynch GH. This doesn't win for scums.


Vote: El Barto


Alright then, Vote: El Barto

Al and atheotes look okay from these votes.


I'll start a competing train on Vote: edse

Might be a connection between him and punisher with punisher commenting on his vote.


Vote: edse

Kinda weird this game. Let's make it more popular.

Me not buying that the Punisher vote clears edse. Anyone can "bus" when it's only a 50/50 chance your low posting partner even dies.

Strategies I use when I'm mafia.


I'll happily join the edse wagon on this one.

Vote: edse

GH does not go for El Barto wagon.


Vote: edse

At this point, edse should be the deepest wolf if he is one. So his reaction is utter befuddlement.


What? I tied Punisher for the lynch yesterday but Pizza saved him in the last minutes.

Instant defense.

This is what edse thought would help him skate to endgame.

Where's his vote on El Barto in this situation?


Vote: Visor, his claim doesn't hold water at all.

Except it was true.


I know, without a doubt, that Visor killed johnhughthom.

Which is a hard claim of an information role, or that Edse is the mafia bus driver.

Because a town bus driver would know that Visor was telling the truth.

Edse cannot claim town bus driver here plausibly, and tracker or watcher results would be solving, so they should be offered. No reason not to.

Desperation maneuver when the deepest wolf is getting lynched instead of El Barto.

Edse can't bus El Barto after Punisher, and then expect to survive the game.

This was a hail mary to save El Barto.


You do realise I claimed immediately and there is no countetclaim

So thinking otherwise is quite wrong


I am neither, and I doubt there actually is a bus driver, because if Visor was bus driven from GH to jht, why did the mafia kill themselves? I don't understand why Visor comlicate his story that much though.

Edse defending his garbage claim.


That is a lynch!

GH (2) - El Barto, BSmith

El Barto (4) - Al Sips, atheotes, Visor, Golden1Knight

edse (1) - GH

Visor (1) - edse

Askthepizzaguy (2) - Eldrick, Askthepizzaguy

Not voting: Raith Kemmler

Where's edse's vote on El Barto?

It's exactly Raith or edse at this point, and edse's garbage claim condemns him 100 times more than Raith.

Always lynch edse here barring an extraordinary claim.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So that's TL;DR stuff.

BOTTOM LINE:

Edse is suggesting he's clear for tying Punisher with Double A.

Meanwhile, other players have been pushing El Barto hard for most of the game, and edse basically refused to lynch El Barto when it was obvious that needed to happen next after Punisher died. Why aren't those other players clear-er than Edse?

His claim that Visor was lying is proven false unless there's a scum bus driver, since a town one has not claimed.

Given the two flips so far, edse can be the scum bus driver himself, or a tracker or watcher. But is refusing to out such data and I won't believe it until he dies and flips villager at this point.

GH looks like the scum's lynch target a lot, and the GH-Barto interaction looks great for GH. Barto tries to get GH to talk to him but GH is busy solving instead.

Edse's move to accuse Visor of lying just looks like an attempt to save Barto and himself at the same time, since edse had 4 votes at the time of the claim.

Plan must have been to bus Punisher, but when the "deep wolf" was next on the chopping block, El Barto under heavy suspicion, there's only one move, try to save both Edse and El Barto.

It doesn't work, El Barto still dies, and Edse is left with an indefensible claim.

Game over.

[atheotes]

El Barto and Punisher hail from CFC where vote movement doesn't really occur that much, especially on D1.

So, El Barto was hard bussing GH on d1 if they're both partners.

Compare GH with Edse. Which one looks worse based on D1?

I dont see GH being in danger on D1 neither do i find Edse scummy based on D1 activity...

[Askthepizzaguy]

It's also partly a Process of Elimination.

Who else can be El Barto and Punisher's partner?

I have it down to Raith as the most likely and I still doubt it. Literally everyone else in the game looks good due to their interactions with dead scum.

Edse's claim of special info seems bogus and always needs to be resolved.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I dont see GH being in danger on D1 neither do i find Edse scummy based on D1 activity...

Keep reading.

[atheotes]

Keep reading.

Yeah...you just made it difficult. :laugh4:

Anyways, just skimmed through bcos i got to go shortly, regarding the bus driver:
if he is town, he must have claimed by now. So it seems unlikely.
If he is scum, why would he direct the hit from GH onto Punisher?
Hence my vote on GH.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Yeah...you just made it difficult. :laugh4:

Anyways, just skimmed through bcos i got to go shortly, regarding the bus driver:
if he is town, he must have claimed by now. So it seems unlikely.
If he is scum, why would he direct the hit from GH onto Punisher?
Hence my vote on GH.

A bus driver works both ways.

If the idea is that Visor shot GH, and the shot landed on Punisher, then why is edse claiming that Visor shot johnhughthom that night?

That's impossible.

That would mean the following:

Visor claims to have shot GH, and JHT and Punisher died.
So if Visor is telling the truth (assume this to start with)
Then

The scum bus driver (since no town bus driver has claimed) sent in the following action:

Bus drive GeneralHankerchief with Punisher. Shots on GH then land on Punisher. That's the ONLY WAY Visor shoots GH and ends up on Punisher. And that would make GeneralHankerchief the scum bus driver exactly. And there's little to no advantage to bus driving himself with Punisher. What's the point? The idea is to deflect Vig shots ONTO townies, not from one scum to another.

And that would make edse a town information role of some kind. Assume edse is telling the truth.

So, why is edse claiming that Visor shot Johnhughthom?

In order for that to be true, the mafia team shot Punisher themselves deliberately.

You never lynch GH here.

You lynch Edse and then if he's a villager with a special power role of some kind that could possibly explain this mess, then you can lynch GH.

But the bottom line is that there's no way this can occur except with a scum bus driver, and given Visor has flipped, that bus driver and the liar in question is always edse, not GH.

Do you follow? This is complicated but the bottom line is, in order for edse to be telling the truth, Visor has to be lying, and he's a dead town vig.

[Askthepizzaguy]

There is a nexus role (on other forums like the one sooh comes from) that can randomize your shot if you shoot that player, and then it would always be GH.

But, edse is claiming to know Visor shot JHT. So, the scums again shot Punisher themselves deliberately.

It's always a lie.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I think that exhaustively proves it, but I've missed stuff before in like, dethy games. 100% brute force analysis solve by me is sometimes sloppy but I think this holds.

Edse says visor shot JHT which means someone else shot a mafioso and I never believe that with all the claimed vanillas and masons.

The game is over unless edse has a partner alive.

So, who is that partner?

[Eldrick]

The problem with you claiming punisher as your partner is if you died with the claim, we wouldn't believe your partner was anyone else, and they would effectively becone vanilla.

[Eldrick]

Another reason for the gh/punisher bus driver idea is if punisher got viewed, he would come up town.

Assuming gh is town ofc, which I am.

[Eldrick]

I think they swapped gh and punisher, shot John, and blamed visor for John's death.

[Eldrick]

What's to explain is HOW you know it. The only 2 things that make sense to me are you personally altered his shot or know who did.

You are denying being bus driver. The other thing that comes to mind is redirect or.

Unvote
Vote:edse

Explain how you know or die.


Vote count:

BSmith (3) - , GeneralHankerchief, Golden1Knight, Eldrick

edse (3) - Askthepizzaguy, Al Sipsclar, Raith Kemmler

GeneralHankerchief (1) - atheotes

Not voting: BSmith, edse,

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461186000.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461186000.png)

Unofficial Vote count:

BSmith (2) - GeneralHankerchief, Golden1Knight

edse (4) - Askthepizzaguy, Al Sipsclar, Raith Kemmler, Eldrick

GeneralHankerchief (1) - atheotes

Not voting: BSmith, edse

(You're welcome, Sooh)

[Askthepizzaguy]

The problem with you claiming punisher as your partner is if you died with the claim, we wouldn't believe your partner was anyone else, and they would effectively becone vanilla.

I gambled against that, and I didn't think it was much of a gamble. I told Golden1Knight exactly what the breadcrumbs were in all the posts I breadcrumbed.

So, he would know exactly which posts were linking back to him as my partner, immediately after I died, and revealed to be a mason.

I know towns are silly sometimes, but armed with that data (I think most of the players in the game didn't even read it, but it's stuff that always always always locks him in as my partner....) they'd never lynch G1K.

Theres like five different clues which only point to him out of everyone.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I think they swapped gh and punisher, shot John, and blamed visor for John's death.

Occam says this is the case.

Every villager needs to be very clear from this point forward that they had nothing to do with the murder directions that night, no bus drivers, and nothing which verifies edse's story.

If that's the case, it's game or edse's partner needs to go tomorrow.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Unvote: BSmith
Vote: edse

I wish I had something more to add, but that's a pretty thorough analysis and the reasoning seems tight on the first glance.

[Eldrick]

I gambled against that, and I didn't think it was much of a gamble. I told Golden1Knight exactly what the breadcrumbs were in all the posts I breadcrumbed.

So, he would know exactly which posts were linking back to him as my partner, immediately after I died, and revealed to be a mason.

I know towns are silly sometimes, but armed with that data (I think most of the players in the game didn't even read it, but it's stuff that always always always locks him in as my partner....) they'd never lynch G1K.

Theres like five different clues which only point to him out of everyone.

Completely forgot that you could plan it with your partner. Duh.

[Eldrick]

I gambled against that, and I didn't think it was much of a gamble. I told Golden1Knight exactly what the breadcrumbs were in all the posts I breadcrumbed.

So, he would know exactly which posts were linking back to him as my partner, immediately after I died, and revealed to be a mason.

I know towns are silly sometimes, but armed with that data (I think most of the players in the game didn't even read it, but it's stuff that always always always locks him in as my partner....) they'd never lynch G1K.

Theres like five different clues which only point to him out of everyone.

I want to know these at some point btw.

Post game if you insist.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I want to know these at some point btw.

Post game if you insist.

I think he posted them earlier in the thread. The only one I can definitively remember is him giving a list of players, and he used nicknames for everyone except Golden. It's definitely there, which is why I'm inclined to take it at face value.

Might've been right before/around the time you subbed in.

[Askthepizzaguy]

It's all public I can quote it for you again, brb

[GeneralHankerchief]

Pizza:

If I'm reading correctly, you've got BSmith cleared mostly because he hadn't voted at the time of the damning tally on D2, right?

I'm not so sure if that's enough to toss him in the "cleared" pile, not being around to vote is pretty much null for me. Plus that post from yesterday still looks very bad.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza:

If I'm reading correctly, you've got BSmith cleared mostly because he hadn't voted at the time of the damning tally on D2, right?

I'm not so sure if that's enough to toss him in the "cleared" pile, not being around to vote is pretty much null for me. Plus that post from yesterday still looks very bad.

He's one of the least clear. I got him as a villager lean based on his total participation.

it's not strong, but his vote pattern kills mafia and in a way that doesn't earn him a ton of credit to survive in endgame.

[GeneralHankerchief]

He's one of the least clear. I got him as a villager lean based on his total participation.

it's not strong, but his vote pattern kills mafia and in a way that doesn't earn him a ton of credit to survive in endgame.

Fair enough, I saw his name associated with blue text that one time and not much more.

[Askthepizzaguy]

SNIP

This was the hard mason breadcrumbing post, I put it in lime green but it shows up poorly so I'll go through it again really quick in regular color.


My vote looms over the unfortunate designer furnishings like the sword of Damocles. Seventeen players, and only so many places for the scummos to hide. Perhaps three scummos. If I took five shots randomly, how many scummos could I hit?

Khaan
GH
johnny boy
Zackleeno
Golden1Knight

Well. If I took shots here, I could get into a lot of trouble.

Trollface.jpg

Vote: Khaan

Simplified version:

1) Sword of Damocles, a knight carries a sword. Referencing Golden1Knight.
2) Immediately after Sword of Damocles, the number Seventeen is written out. In Sooh's player list, Golden1Knight was listed as the seventeenth player.
3) Immediately posted after my opener where I said I was a villager+lock clear, indicating that I'm about to breadcrumb another lock clear
4) In my list of five shots, I have four players written out with nicknames or shortened names, but Golden1Knight is written out completely as it appears.

There are later clues. I reference him in post 288 as well.

There are no similar clues referencing Punisher, the claim that I was mason with him was more overt and involved trying to get him to actually confirm it verbally in the thread, which is completely daffy and the first thing a scum team would look for. Hence why I did it.

Punisher being scum instead is pretty funny.


At the top of this post is a link back to the original which I copied directly from Mason chat:
"Ok, Golden1Knight, this is the breadcrumb I'm using.
Sword = Knight
Seventeen = Where you appear on the player list
If I took shots here, I could get into a lot of trouble = My mason partner's name is on this list

Three clues in one post directly after calling myself lock clear. That's the crumb. You can explain the crumb if I die and you need to prove you are the mason.

Oh, forgot the last one

The other names on that list are informal. Yours is spelled formally, indicating you're different from the others."

"This is me deliberately trying to get the mafia to murder Punisher instead of you, Golden1Knight.

I will breadcrumb that later on.

#Reminding myself to do this."

"288 references you, btw.

This should help people understand that Punisher is the ruse, you're the real mason."

[Askthepizzaguy]

Yknow, I could have had an okay game, outside of the whole aggressively lynching villagers, running Khaan off, and trying Zack's patience, and breaking the tie in favor of a townie instead of a scum.

Outside of that massive bucket of AIDS I had an okay game. Top notch.

<_<

>_>

[Eldrick]

I think I somehow completely missed that post the first time around.

[Eldrick]

I'm also a little disappointed nobody commented on my avi.

I did it for you, Zack :)

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm also a little disappointed nobody commented on my avi.

I did it for you, Zack :)

Well Zack deserves something this game. A win would be nice and seems likely atm.

[Golden1Knight]

Unvote; Vote: edse

[edse]

My estimation was in a game this small, most of the players would be vanilla. Drawing a murder onto a vanilla townie that otherwise cannot clear himself (Punisher being a low-poster, unlikely to draw a murder or clear himself otherwise) and one I could plausibly claim as a partner too.

How else would I know he's villager? Mason partner or peek only. So after I die, mafia should have always murdered Punisher.

Idea was:

1) Draw murder to me, away from the town vigilante.
2) In so doing, convince the mafia that Punisher was my mason buddy, keeping Golden1Knight alive.
3) Once Punisher-villager dies, Golden1Knight hard claims, getting a mason deep into the game, possibly endgame, with proof of masonry.strongly and repeatedly breadcrumbed.
4) I also strongly hinted for the vigilante to NOT shoot inside the low posters and I aggressively tried to lynch everyone who tried to divert the lynch in that direction.

I didn't know Punisher was scum. But even in such an event, our mason claim fixes the problem of me looking bad from that mistake.

It was a gamble and even in the bad scenario town does ok. Visor and myself and G1K survived N1 and N2.

Surprised the scums didn't shoot into us. If they did, they were bus driven.

But edse has basically hard claimed not town bus driver. And no one else has claimed town bus driver.

As such, edse is the scum bus driver.

Analysis shows....

If that's the case, why wouldn't the scum bus driver claim town bus driver after accidentally diverting a kill onto his own partner?




How do you know that Punisher isn't the vig?

This question is not solving for village.

mason claims. Says this gamble took place regarding Punisher.

Punisher hasn't been revealed to be mafia yet. Punisher isn't the vig, of course, but how did I know that?

I didn't know that. Why would anyone think I knew that?

It was a guess, a shot in the dark.

Even if you legitimately thought I knew that somehow, why are you fishing a claimed mason for more information?

This question is something a scumbag asks in order to look like solving. Compare it to the question quoted earlier that GH posed me.


Because you said it yourself!



Mason chat:

"Ok, Golden1Knight, this is the breadcrumb I'm using.

Sword = Knight
Seventeen = Where you appear on the player list
If I took shots here, I could get into a lot of trouble = My mason partner's name is on this list

Three clues in one post directly after calling myself lock clear. That's the crumb. You can explain the crumb if I die and you need to prove you are the mason.

Oh, forgot the last one

The other names on that list are informal. Yours is spelled formally, indicating you're different from the others."



"This is me deliberately trying to get the mafia to murder Punisher instead of you, Golden1Knight.

I will breadcrumb that later on.

#Reminding myself to do this."

"288 references you, btw.

This should help people understand that Punisher is the ruse, you're the real mason."

Pizza-Golden1Knight real mason team

Tried to draw murder onto Punisher and away from my real partner, but Punisher couldn't confirm he was my mason partner so.

I tried to draw murder away from vigilante because he's more valuable and it would lock clear GK and also possibly get Punisher cleared via murder if he's innocent.

Time to start generating a vote record that can be analyzed. Votes on pizza, Golden, or folks I'm village-reading are pretty bad folks.

It's causing me to abandon the strategy which would have been useful.

If villagers would just stop trying to lynch villagers we'd get somewhere. It's really hard to find the scums when there's so much villager on villager voting. Why I got so pissy yesterday.

You wanted to draw the kill away from the vig and onto Punisher, that means you know that Punisher isn't the vig.




Vote: Visor, his claim doesn't hold water at all.
Except it was true.



Which is a hard claim of an information role, or that Edse is the mafia bus driver.

Because a town bus driver would know that Visor was telling the truth.

Edse cannot claim town bus driver here plausibly, and tracker or watcher results would be solving, so they should be offered. No reason not to.

Desperation maneuver when the deepest wolf is getting lynched instead of El Barto.

Edse can't bus El Barto after Punisher, and then expect to survive the game.

This was a hail mary to save El Barto.





Edse defending his garbage claim.



Where's edse's vote on El Barto?

It's exactly Raith or edse at this point, and edse's garbage claim condemns him 100 times more than Raith.

Always lynch edse here barring an extraordinary claim.

BUT IT IS TRUE! Visor killed jht. You can't solve the game if you work from the false assumption that he didn't.

I'm a tracker. I tracked Visor killing Zack the first night. I made a weak case against him to not reveal my role and in case he was a vig.

The second night I tracked him again, this time he killed jht. This made it clear to me that he wasn't the vig since the vig killed Punisher. Of course I was trying to lynch him.

Last night I tracked him again but this time he didn't do anything.

[Sooh]

Vote count:

edse (7) - Askthepizzaguy, Al Sipsclar, Raith Kemmler, Eldrick, BSmith, GeneralHankerchief, Golden1Knight

GeneralHankerchief (1) - atheotes

Not voting: edse

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461186000.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461186000.png)

[edse]

You are almost unanimously voting for me, this proves there are no town bus driver (otherwise you need to speak out atheotes). That means there is a scum bus driver.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Unvote: edse
Vote: Abstain

As a courtesy for his last few posts. Need to re-examine this.

[edse]

Vote: Raith Kemmler based on Pizza's vote analysis.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Why didn't you hardclaim during the previous phase?

[Golden1Knight]

Vote: Raith Kemmler

[atheotes]

You are almost unanimously voting for me, this proves there are no town bus driver (otherwise you need to speak out atheotes). That means there is a scum bus driver.

I am not the bus driver. I am vanilla town. It is easily seen from a couple of my earlier posts.
Can you please recheck the results you received? because there is no reason for Visor to lie abt killing Punisher. And there is absolutely no need for the scum to hit punisher.

[Golden1Knight]

Since we are not lynching BSmith today. Plus Raith's in my scum list.

[Eldrick]

If that's the case, why wouldn't the scum bus driver claim town bus driver after accidentally diverting a kill onto his own partner?



Because you said it yourself!


You wanted to draw the kill away from the vig and onto Punisher, that means you know that Punisher isn't the vig.



BUT IT IS TRUE! Visor killed jht. You can't solve the game if you work from the false assumption that he didn't.

I'm a tracker. I tracked Visor killing Zack the first night. I made a weak case against him to not reveal my role and in case he was a vig.

The second night I tracked him again, this time he killed jht. This made it clear to me that he wasn't the vig since the vig killed Punisher. Of course I was trying to lynch him.

Last night I tracked him again but this time he didn't do anything.

He was the vig, though. So you are saying the vig shot John and scum shot themselves.

Not buying it.

[Eldrick]

Also ofc he didn't do anything last night. He was a 2x vig.

[GeneralHankerchief]

If John was bus driven, would that impact a tracker's results?

[edse]

I am not the bus driver. I am vanilla town. It is easily seen from a couple of my earlier posts.
Can you please recheck the results you received? because there is no reason for Visor to lie abt killing Punisher. And there is absolutely no need for the scum to hit punisher.
Visor only said that he targeted GeneralHankerchief, he didn't know who he was redirected to but assumed Punisher.


He was the vig, though. So you are saying the vig shot John and scum shot themselves.

Not buying it.

He was yes, and he was probably telling the truth when he said he targeted GH, but I can't explain the result.

This is what I can put together about that night using my information:

Visor targeted GH + scum bus driver switched GH and jht ->Visor targets and kill jht
Punisher is killed (by scum)

[GeneralHankerchief]

Visor targeted GH + scum bus driver switched GH and jht ->Visor targets and kill jht
Punisher is killed (by scum)

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: edse

There's a giant hole in this story.

[GeneralHankerchief]

In case it's not readily apparent, edse's story has Punisher, who has flipped scum, has him being killed by scum.

edse, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, and you tried, but the execution was a bit lacking at the end. Better luck next time.

[edse]

In case it's not readily apparent, edse's story has Punisher, who has flipped scum, has him being killed by scum.

edse, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, and you tried, but the execution was a bit lacking at the end. Better luck next time.

What kind of fool do you take me for? Making up a story that was impossible from the start?

[GeneralHankerchief]

How do you explain the discrepancy then?

[Raith Kemmler]

It's possible? But weird. It would require another power redirect by unclaimed town. Or maybe a Serial Killer hidden in the mafia team? It ain't worth an examination till we see Edse flip. Too elaborate.

[edse]

How do you explain the discrepancy then?

Well, I can't. But I can assure you I could if I were mafia.

[atheotes]

A bus driver works both ways.

If the idea is that Visor shot GH, and the shot landed on Punisher, then why is edse claiming that Visor shot johnhughthom that night?

That's impossible.

That would mean the following:

Visor claims to have shot GH, and JHT and Punisher died.
So if Visor is telling the truth (assume this to start with)
Then

The scum bus driver (since no town bus driver has claimed) sent in the following action:

Bus drive GeneralHankerchief with Punisher. Shots on GH then land on Punisher. That's the ONLY WAY Visor shoots GH and ends up on Punisher. And that would make GeneralHankerchief the scum bus driver exactly. And there's little to no advantage to bus driving himself with Punisher. What's the point? The idea is to deflect Vig shots ONTO townies, not from one scum to another.

And that would make edse a town information role of some kind. Assume edse is telling the truth.

So, why is edse claiming that Visor shot Johnhughthom?

In order for that to be true, the mafia team shot Punisher themselves deliberately.

You never lynch GH here.

You lynch Edse and then if he's a villager with a special power role of some kind that could possibly explain this mess, then you can lynch GH.

But the bottom line is that there's no way this can occur except with a scum bus driver, and given Visor has flipped, that bus driver and the liar in question is always edse, not GH.

Do you follow? This is complicated but the bottom line is, in order for edse to be telling the truth, Visor has to be lying, and he's a dead town vig.


This is not complicated...you are just complicating it by mixing Edse's story.
Lets ignore Edse's claim for a moment.

Visor is confirmed town and based on what he said - He targeted GH and killed Punisher instead. There is no town bus driver. If there is a scum bus driver, they would never target and kill one of their own. So only possibility is that it is a game mechanic offering some immunity for the mafia leader.

Now coming to Edse's claim, It is possible that he is speaking the truth. He tracked visor and hence voted Visor D2. He switched votes pretty late in the day. Then D3 he accuses of killing John and sticks to his claim.
this would be a nonsensical move to come from the mafia's position. There is absolutely no need to attract attention with this outrageous claim.
We do not have visor's full results to examine visor's interpretation.
I am fairly convinced Edse is town, though i cannot explain his results right now. For my money Raith and GH are the remaining scum.

[atheotes]

If John was bus driven, would that impact a tracker's results?

What kind of powers do you have? care to share any results you might have?

[Askthepizzaguy]

I gotta see edse's flip at this point. I assure you if I were mafia I'd have an ironclad lie is not how I interpret things. Sometimes your lie falls apart.

If he's a tracker, then either our glorious host is having issues with mechanical resolution of trackers, which is possible but unfortunate for us, or he's just lying.

In any case, I don't see how we can move forward without lynching the person who said that Visor killed JHT leaving a mafia to kill a mafia and a second bus driving to take place with 2 flipped scum vanillas.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Add up the bus drivings needed for edse to be telling the truth.

Visor would have then been bus driven onto Punisher, away from GH, and then the mafia would have to have been bus driven onto Punisher.

With no claimed town bus driver.

That's check and mate, methinks.

[Sooh]

Vote count:

edse (6) - Askthepizzaguy, Al Sipsclar, Raith Kemmler, Eldrick, BSmith, GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief (1) - atheotes

Raith Kemmler (2) - edse, Golden1Knight

Not voting:

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461186000.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461186000.png)

[atheotes]

I gotta see edse's flip at this point. I assure you if I were mafia I'd have an ironclad lie is not how I interpret things. Sometimes your lie falls apart.

If he's a tracker, then either our glorious host is having issues with mechanical resolution of trackers, which is possible but unfortunate for us, or he's just lying.

In any case, I don't see how we can move forward without lynching the person who said that Visor killed JHT leaving a mafia to kill a mafia and a second bus driving to take place with 2 flipped scum vanillas.

I do see your point. It did occur to me that it was perhaps a host mistake, but i thought it might have been corrected by now if that was the case.
I guess we have no choice but to lynch Edse and see...

[Al Sipsclar]

Unvote; vote: Raith. Randomizer could have changed all the results involving Visor.

[atheotes]

Unvote; vote: Raith

[Askthepizzaguy]

A randomizer makes a tracker completely worthless. I seriously doubt it's a role included here.

Keep in mind, that still does not explain the mafia's kill, guys.

They didn't randomize their own kill, that's how they end up shooting themselves. If you're voting Raith, you're saying you think it's more likely the scums shot themselves pretty much deliberately, than edse simply making stuff up about our vigilante to save El Barto and himself.

Which is more likely guys?

[atheotes]

third option being: Edse is telling the truth as he sees it and there is something in the game mechanic which we are not able to explain yet.

[atheotes]

Edse is going to be lynched and i cannot change that. I only hope to hear from GH, BSmith and Raith.

[Askthepizzaguy]

third option being: Edse is telling the truth as he sees it and there is something in the game mechanic which we are not able to explain yet.

That's reaching really far to force a square peg into a round hole.

Do as you will, but my prediction here is we'll be back here tomorrow lynching edse.

[Raith Kemmler]

Edse is going to be lynched and i cannot change that. I only hope to hear from GH, BSmith and Raith.

Fire away. I've been beaten by other stuff, but I'm here now. Anything to make a read easier after my absence.


That's reaching really far to force a square peg into a round hole.

Do as you will, but my prediction here is we'll be back here tomorrow lynching edse.

Edse has to flip. We can't be sure there is a new mechanic otherwise. Confirming that is easily worth a mistaken lynch even if he didn't look relatively evil.


Which is more likely guys?

That Raith's a tricksy son of a gun. Shoot his own mafia team. I wouldn't out it past him.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Confirmed edse mislynch would be worth knowing for sure that there's a randomizer or something like that.

Not that there is such a role in this game, it's just a guilty edse imo.

[Sooh]

Vote count:

edse (5) - Askthepizzaguy, Raith Kemmler, Eldrick, BSmith, GeneralHankerchief

Raith Kemmler (4) - edse, Golden1Knight, Al Sipsclar, atheotes

Not voting:

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461186000.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461186000.png)

[Askthepizzaguy]

Should I unvote and let the tie rand?

Surely that won't cause everyone in dead villager chat to be super annoyed with me.

[Golden1Knight]

Anyway, it's better to flip edse now and solve any doubts about game mechanics.

Unvote; Vote: edse

BSmith, edse and Raith: I think we have our remaining mafia among them.

[edse]

I gotta see edse's flip at this point. I assure you if I were mafia I'd have an ironclad lie is not how I interpret things. Sometimes your lie falls apart.

If he's a tracker, then either our glorious host is having issues with mechanical resolution of trackers, which is possible but unfortunate for us, or he's just lying.

In any case, I don't see how we can move forward without lynching the person who said that Visor killed JHT leaving a mafia to kill a mafia and a second bus driving to take place with 2 flipped scum vanillas.

But the story would have been flawed from the beginning. If it lead to vig Visor being lynched yesterday, I would hang today. Otherwise the mafia would kill Visor tonight (as happened) and I would still hang today.

We now know that there is a scum bus driver, regardless if you believe my claim or not. The mafia probably have full information about night 2 and could have constructed a very believable town bus claim from GH to Punisher if it weren't for me tracking Visor to jht.

Raith's tone in his last posts is taunting, he knows I'm right and laughs at my attempts to convince you.

[Askthepizzaguy]

But the story would have been flawed from the beginning. If it lead to vig Visor being lynched yesterday, I would hang today. Otherwise the mafia would kill Visor tonight (as happened) and I would still hang today.

Yeah, but El Barto would still be alive and Visor would have been lynched, rather than a murder being used on him instead of the masons.

You were always dying with that claim, but it would have bought you time and a mislynch. You had 4 votes on you, "it's bad for my survival" is not the correct defense here.


We now know that there is a scum bus driver, regardless if you believe my claim or not. The mafia probably have full information about night 2 and could have constructed a very believable town bus claim from GH to Punisher if it weren't for me tracking Visor to jht.

If he was at jht's location then he was killing jht, not Punisher, which doesn't explain Punisher's death.

It doesn't work, not on me at least.


Raith's tone in his last posts is taunting, he knows I'm right and laughs at my attempts to convince you.

If you're somehow town it will be given a serious look, most everyone else looks great.

[edse]

Yeah, but El Barto would still be alive and Visor would have been lynched, rather than a murder being used on him instead of the masons.

You were always dying with that claim, but it would have bought you time and a mislynch. You had 4 votes on you, "it's bad for my survival" is not the correct defense here.



If he was at jht's location then he was killing jht, not Punisher, which doesn't explain Punisher's death.

It doesn't work, not on me at least.



If you're somehow town it will be given a serious look, most everyone else looks great.

A 4 vote wagon in 5 hours, not really a serious threat if you look at the votes.


I'll start a competing train on Vote: edse

Might be a connection between him and punisher with punisher commenting on his vote.


Vote: edse

Kinda weird this game. Let's make it more popular.


I'll happily join the edse wagon on this one.

Vote: edse


Vote: edse

There's still 24 hours left today. If there's two mafia left I believe it's Raith and BSmith but you should use todays lynch to test Eldrick, BSmith and GeneralHankerchief.

[Raith Kemmler]

There's still 24 hours left today. If there's two mafia left I believe it's Raith and BSmith but you should use todays lynch to test Eldrick, BSmith and GeneralHankerchief.

What. Gonna need a explanation for this.

[edse]

What. Gonna need a explanation for this.

Who of them wants to save you, scum.

[Sooh]

Vote count:

edse (6) - Askthepizzaguy, Raith Kemmler, Eldrick, BSmith, GeneralHankerchief, Golden1Knight

Raith Kemmler (3) - edse, Al Sipsclar, atheotes

Not voting:

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461186000.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461186000.png)

Just FYI: Night 4 will be longer than the 24 hours described in the rules, because I'll be out camping with 150 insane teenagers. It'll be closer to 40 hours before I'm able to flip that night, and as a result Day 5 will be 56-ish hours instead of 48 (or it could be 32 hours if everyone prefers that. You can let me know in your posts).

[atheotes]

I am ok with whatever is comfortable for you.
I dont think there is going to be any changes in the votes. You can cut short this day phase as well if it helps. :bow:

[Eldrick]

My vote is locked. Your story doesn't explain Punisher's death. Scum will not willingly shoot themselves. If you do actually flip town tracker, then we will reevaluate, but I don't expect you to.

I'm also on board for ending the phase early.

[edse]

It's possible? But weird. It would require another power redirect by unclaimed town. Or maybe a Serial Killer hidden in the mafia team? It ain't worth an examination till we see Edse flip. Too elaborate.

Is this the first mention of a serial killer? Why would he have to be in the mafia team?


Why was Choxorn killed? He could have been a lynch target in the near future?

Yeah, why was Choxorn killed by the mafia? after Pizza made this case against him:


Pushing for a cop or mason to be outed.

I happen to be a mason so I know I'm not about to cause one to happen when I pushed on GH.

I also don't believe for a moment that Khaan's posts defending GH were cop result based. Because of how they were phased to include universes where GH might be guilty. You don't do that as cop.

And there's sufficient actual villagers pushing GH at this time that this is a safe maneuver for a scum and possibly forces villager claims.



Opportunistic piling on when GH is under heavy pressure.



Solving question at Zack.

Now read the posts in between this post and the post where he ties the vote between Zack and Jarema.

This is villagery behavior? Or wolf howling?

You decide, I guess. I'll be dead so someone will have to follow up on it.


Zack's flip gives me/everyone more data. Please follow through.

Choxorn is fine to be roasted and toasted d2 if you like.

Raith Kemmler knows there is a serial killer who killed Choxorn and then Punisher. That would mean we're missing some mafia kills. But if their killing power was tied to Punisher, he was away for 5½ days and then 4 days, missing night 1 and night 2 he was killed.


Reminder that there's just six hours left of N1.

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/bla_1460494800.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/bla_1460494800.png)


Jeez, I lose internet for about 48 hours and then have to read 500 or so posts?



Actually agreed, I have done that before and would do it again, although I have strong history of trusting Visor's read on Jarrema as any alignment. Until reading he just said it because of Jarrema voting him. :rtwno:

I do not believe atpg's claim of being mason and vig, that being said, choice of target isn't bad (if not lieing about the vig part), so I'm happy to leave that to resolve later (insert my normal I don't read atpg well post here).




Day 2 btw, El Barto calls me out on my Visor vote, Raith Kemmler votes for me and Punisher have me as scum lean (for voting Pizza? which I didn't do)


Oh, c'mon, not even I -who am a serial OMGUSer- am voting for Visor. What's your real reason for that, edse?


Thread isn't moving. Did the first tucker out everyone?

Vote: Edse

Case on Aspg feels weak and half handed. Also Atheotes to a degree. Aspg might be mafia, but I aint buying these cases yet.


:shrug:




Visor has a point about atpg, culturally different between sites. edse gives horrible reasoning, and considering the low votes today, a vote for atpg is low risk move for scum, so...slight scum lean. Eldrick strong town lean. Takhisis is being Takhisis. Al Sips is being very quiet by his standards, I'm reading the majority of posts made as townie in general. I don't like any of the lynches today so far.

BSmith, Golden1Knight, Al Sips, Double A


I would vote for Visor for the bs yesterday with Jarrema, but horrible idea in game terms. vote: Al Sips, but could easily switch to another of the above 4. An edse lynch would be a weak case, and IMO would get more info by leaving him alive, and a potential lynch another day.

[atheotes]

Both Raith and Punisher made the same mistake of assuming you were voting for ATPG? :inquisitive: It seems that way...though i must say Raith is not being very specific.

[Sooh]

I'll end this day as scheduled, and if I have all night actions by the time I wake up in the morning I'll start Day early, potentially cutting that down a bit as well to like 36 hours.

If anyone feels like that won't work for them, please let me know!

[Eldrick]

I'll end this day as scheduled, and if I have all night actions by the time I wake up in the morning I'll start Day early, potentially cutting that down a bit as well to like 36 hours.

If anyone feels like that won't work for them, please let me know!

Sounds good to me.

[edse]

Well, the game was "solved" in my previous post, I'll leave that as my legacy. I don't know if you're really worth it though, considering the case against me. The same moment I said "Visor killed jht", I also implied that mafia killed themselves. It's utterly senseless to believe that's a mafia lie.

After I flip you have readjust your theories after this:
1) Visor killed jht
2) There is a scum bus driver
3) There is a serial killer who killed at least Punisher and probably Choxorn and Visor as well.
4) The mafia probably haven't made a single kill
5) There probably is a scanner in the game (my role pm hints at it), I don't know what they've been doing all game.

[edse]

You're really giving the fourth mafia a free pass today :(

[Sooh]

That is a lynch!

edse (6) - Askthepizzaguy, Raith Kemmler, Eldrick, BSmith, GeneralHankerchief, Golden1Knight

Raith Kemmler (3) - edse, Al Sipsclar, atheotes

Not voting:

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461186000.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461186000.png)

[Sooh]

They were getting tired now, the furniture. Their numbers were shrinking, but so far they had only found a couple of pieces of rotten (though not literally of course) wood. However, as a particularly loud reading lamp was about to find out, it didn't pay off to stick yourself out.

-You said the fancy schmancy guys sabotaged one of their own! Why on earth would they do that?

-I don't know. Maybe he was as annoying as you?

-You are so full of it. Just look at you! All shiny and stuff!

(Shiny apparently was a way to find designer furniture.)

-You are wrong about me and you'll be sorry! I will leave you with my legacy after I'm gone, though none of you truly deserve it! I am far too good for you people anyway!

The reading lamp gave one final huff, and as the other furniture gathered around it, a shiver.

edse has been lynched!

https://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a48/myha82/IKEA%20mafia/nyfors-gulv-leselampe%20-%20SK_zpsxrukccuc.jpg

He was Nyfors floor reading lamp, serial killer.

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/bla_1461227400.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/bla_1461227400.png)
(This is the short night countdown. If I don't have all night actions before the end of this timer I will add a new timer with a new deadline since I can't be sure that you'll all be online and can see this in time. )

[Askthepizzaguy]

OK, that reduces overall killing power in the game at the very least.

Edse might have been trying to counterclaim vigilante when he challenged visor.

But, that means there needs to still be a long hard look at who Punisher and Barto's partner was.

4 scums and a SK is a bit much in a 17er, unless there's a ton more village power roles and people have been claiming vanilla or mason, so that's not a lot. 2 shot vig and 2 shot commuter and 2 masons might be all we have. Also lol JHT for not using his commutes.

Raith seems like a decent follow up.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Also goes to show you, even analysis and votes which are helpful to town can be right for the wrong reasons. Or wrong for the right reasons. Whatever. 1 less murder per night means we don't get slaughtered tonight like we were going to.

Also, it is important to note that the serial killer and the mafia have been hitting the commuter on night one and possibly the same target as each other on night two, or something.

That's the piece we were missing, a missing kill.

Also, that means Visor was indeed bus driven by a mafia bus driver who is still alive, and targeted GH and was switched to someone else, possibly JHT as edse claimed. There shouldn't be any powers left in play that the bus driver would be helpful with, and its possible they can kill and bus drive at the same time, so just keep it in mind.

Keeping in mind the last mafia remaining is the mafia bus driver, I don't believe the scum team would have wanted to bus him early or repeatedly, so GH is still okay until final 3. I will say I have seen scum mates bus their only power role on d1 before, it's just really rare.

So take a look inside Raith, BSmith, Al, atheotes, and GH. Instead of trying to guess the final scum exactly, try to think who looks genuinely the most townie out of those, and find 3 villagers.

Make sure those villagers really are villagers, and that's GG.

Please do not be absent during voting, please take the torch and bring home a win, it's been a long while since I've had a town win.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Final 7 tomorrow, final 5, final 3, you have three guesses, actually, so you only need to find two villagers inside that group of five I mentioned above. Please find those two villagers, always.

If the scums do not murder inside me and G1K, there's a low chance we guess wrong tomorrow and then tinfoil hats will come out regarding me and Golden1K at final five.

However, it no longer matters. There should never be 4 mafia on the mafia team. It is now possible to mislynch one of us and not have it be game-destroying. So that's something positive.

[Eldrick]

I agree that there should never be 4 mafia and an sk. I was totally not expecting him to flip sk, but it does explain why he had knowledge of visor's shot. He had a shot too.

He was probably telling the truth about visor shooting john, which means he shot punisher (thanks for that)

[Askthepizzaguy]

My brain's pretty sluggish this morning, but I don't want to overturn my GH analysis without thinking it through.

Just note that if GH is bus driven with johnhughthom it might have been to specifically protect GH, thinking he was going to get shot as a highly suspicious target at the time.

If that's the case then I didn't have a bad game, I had a game where people got upset that GH was going to be lynched day one and people couldn't bear it. Which is good news for GH, knowing that he's so beloved, and bad news for the rest of us schmucks.

But I'm not sure I go there immediately. Think it over fellas.

I also have been done, on a personal level, with this game since khaan left, so I am hoping and praying the murder lands on me so I can exit the game and not have to think about it anymore, so please shoot me mafia, you'd be doing me a favor.

If you do, this is the last you'll hear of me and my analysis attempts. I put in the effort and didn't walk out, but I was not happy.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Wonderful narrations, my love, well hosted, great vote counts near deadline, A+ first game.

See you later folks.

[Sooh]

They had been quite snuggly for a while, the two pillows who lived in the far corner of the couch. They of course knew where the other one had come from, as they were purchased at the same time and had stayed together ever since. The other furniture hadn't even dared to touch them. They were free to point (pillows point when they aim a corner at something) at other furniture, accusing them, with no fear of repercussions. The nights had been scary and they had felt very vulnerable though, and this night was no exception.

As morning came and the furniture opened their eyes they saw a sad sight. On the couch a whole bunch of fluff was just lying around, moving with the slight wind from an open window. It looked like a slaughter!

One pillow opened his eyes and cried out:

-I have been slain!

He was wrong, however. It was his friend who was slain, and would no longer be snug with his friend on the couch.

Golden1Knight has been killed


https://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a48/myha82/IKEA%20mafia/flong-Mason_zpspvfxy6fw.jpg

He was Flong pillow, town mason.
http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461358800.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461358800.png)

[Askthepizzaguy]

K, mafioso, gonna have to kill you for that.

Start pleading for your life.

[Eldrick]

My brain's pretty sluggish this morning, but I don't want to overturn my GH analysis without thinking it through.

Just note that if GH is bus driven with johnhughthom it might have been to specifically protect GH, thinking he was going to get shot as a highly suspicious target at the time.

If that's the case then I didn't have a bad game, I had a game where people got upset that GH was going to be lynched day one and people couldn't bear it. Which is good news for GH, knowing that he's so beloved, and bad news for the rest of us schmucks.

But I'm not sure I go there immediately. Think it over fellas.

I also have been done, on a personal level, with this game since khaan left, so I am hoping and praying the murder lands on me so I can exit the game and not have to think about it anymore, so please shoot me mafia, you'd be doing me a favor.

If you do, this is the last you'll hear of me and my analysis attempts. I put in the effort and didn't walk out, but I was not happy.

I can't think of a reason for them to use it to swap 2 townies.

Vote: GH

[Eldrick]

K, mafioso, gonna have to kill you for that.

Start pleading for your life.

FWIW you are 100% confirmed town now.

[atheotes]

Never thought we would have a serial killer (neutral) along with Vig (town) and mafia. Could have been a blood bath. Luckily for us it hasnt been so. I still think we might have a 4 member mafia team...not as strongly as before though.

Strange kill choice...


I can't think of a reason for them to use it to swap 2 townies.

Vote: GH

thats what i have been telling...

Vote: GH

[Eldrick]

Even if it wasn't a busdriver, visor shot GH and killed not GH. Something weird is going on with GH.

[Raith Kemmler]

Maybe GH is another third party?

Vote: Bsmith

[Raith Kemmler]

Agreed with Atheotes. Prolly fighting a four man mafia team.

[Eldrick]

2 3rd parties and 4 mafia?

That's insane.

[Eldrick]

I'm tempted to vote you for that, but still think GH is the better way to go.

[Raith Kemmler]

2 3rd parties and 4 mafia?

Oh, uh no, stream of consciousness made that unclear. I mean either 2 3rd parties or a 4 man mafia. Not both.

That's insane.


I'm tempted to vote you for that, but still think GH is the better way to go.

Appreciate it.

[Raith Kemmler]

Damn sleep deprivation.

Clarity activate!


2 3rd parties and 4 mafia?

That's insane.

Oh, uh no, stream of consciousness made that unclear. I mean either 2 3rd parties or a 4 man mafia. Not both.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I don't have any insight as to why Visor attacked me and I didn't show up as attacked. If I was a nexus role or a redirector or whatever it was, I would have claimed it last phase at latest as we could have solved.

BSmith is still my top suspect, that was a bad post he made the other day about rolefishing and I need to further examine his votes w/r/t the El Barto situation.

Vote: BSmith

[Eldrick]

Nexus and redirector are typically scum roles, are they not?

I wouldn't expect you to admit to them.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Start of the round, Barto gets the earlybird special vote on me.


Votes:

GH (1) - El Barto

El Barto (2) - Al Sips, atheotes

Not voting: Eldrick, Golden1Knight, Raith Kemmler, GH, edse, BSmith, Visor, Askthepizzaguy

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1460926800.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1460926800.png)

edse wagon soon picks up, BSmith is yet to show up.


Votes:

GH (1) - El Barto

El Barto (2) - Al Sips, atheotes

edse (4) - Eldrick, Askthepizzaguy, GH, Golden1Knight

Visor (1) - edse

Not voting: Raith Kemmler, BSmith, Visor

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1460926800.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1460926800.png)

At first glance, a scum has an easy vote on edse or Barto and can call it a day. But here's the thing though, the edse wagon stalled at this point. He softclaimed having a tracker role and named Visor as jht's attacker here:


I know, without a doubt, that Visor killed johnhughthom.

Any vote on edse afterwards would be suspicious as momentum was going the other way. Not entirely because it wasn't a hardclaim and we were still trying to get specifics, but piling on would stand out. I know as a mafioso I'm always trying to monitor the momentum of the thread, and I suspect I'm not the only one who does so. If BSmith is of a like mind he knows that the edse wagon has stopped, regardless of the vote count.

Anyway, the voting stops, and the questions start rolling in.


hmm...interesting. I do see the probability.
Are you saying Visor did not kill Punisher or are you saying Visor killed John?

Reasonable reaction from atheotes, trying to get clarification.


Hardclaim something or my vote stays where it is.

My reaction, a bit blunter than atheotes's but the core message is the same: I want more information.


Yep, hard claim vigilante or be lynched basically. Or hard claim bus driver, either way.

Once that happens, we lynch outside of the claims, and the bus driver does nothing.

Then, scum and vig likely shoot each other, saving us from having to make the 50/50 call.

Pizza's reaction, well in accord with the other two.

Discussion moves elsewhere for a bit, Pizza takes some heat for the AA vote the previous round. edse comes in and advances his theories but still doesn't hardclaim.


Votes:

GH (1) - El Barto

El Barto (3) - Al Sips, atheotes, Visor

edse (2) - GH, Golden1Knight

Visor (1) - edse

Askthepizzaguy (2) - Eldrick, Askthepizzaguy

Not voting: Raith Kemmler, BSmith

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1460926800.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1460926800.png)

Still no BSmith. I'm not holding this against him but at this time the thread momentum is far more up in the air than where it was earlier in the round. edse's still got the most votes but Pizza's taking heat as well but not really because one of those was a self vote and etc etc etc. What's a mafioso to do?

Here we are:


I very much dislike role-fishing. vote: GH

Couple things wrong with this picture.

1) Singling one person out when multiple people did the action in question. This isn't a townie trying to have a discussion with people. This is a mafioso looking for an easy vote.
2) We're at the part of the game where clarity becomes paramount. I'm trying to solve. atheotes is trying to solve. Pizza's trying to solve. Sorting out edse's claim and attempting to determine which of him and Visor (who was still alive at this point) helps the town here.
3) The target. If BSmith is town, he gets the slightest of passes here for singling out the guy who was bluntest, but I think it's more likely that this was a calculated decision to try to get me lynched. atheotes isn't undergoing much suspicion at all. Pizza's got a couple of votes, but one of them was a self-vote and the other was because signals got crossed. Then there's me. Barto's in the lead, but he doesn't have an overwhelming majority yet and the momentum really hasn't been targeting him. Could be too early to bus. Could still be worth a shot to get something out of the round.

atheotes immediately calls BSmith out:


Seriously? that seems like a lazy vote at best. There are other people who have fished for the roles even more strongly...

As do I:


Yeah, really. I'm definitely rolefishing. It's called trying to solve the game.

Tally with three hours to go:


Votes:

GH (2) - El Barto, BSmith

El Barto (3) - Al Sips, atheotes, Visor

edse (2) - GH, Golden1Knight

Visor (1) - edse

Askthepizzaguy (2) - Eldrick, Askthepizzaguy

Not voting: Raith Kemmler

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1460926800.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1460926800.png)

3 hours until DL

Golden switches from edse and that's the last vote move of the round. Barto is lynched.

~~~~~~~~~

SUMMATION:

1) Barto had a few early votes in the round but after that the momentum wasn't really on him, i.e. a mafioso could still think about potentially salvaging the situation, i.e. not really an optimal time to bus.

2) It was a weak momentum round in general besides the edse rush, which BSmith missed. At the one time BSmith posted in the round, there was negative momentum on edse, null to positive momentum on Barto, null on me, Visor, and atheotes. Slight positive on Pizza but you have to keep in mind the context behind his two votes. Optimal time to get a wagon going, if you play your cards right.

3) The votes on Barto were mostly results of the case on him from the previous round and thus not 100% fresh in the town's memory (this round was all about the edse/Visor argument).

4) If you can get a wagon going, I'm a decent enough target - the suspicion level on me has ranged from ALERT ALERT ALERT to low buzz pretty much all game.

5) If I'm BSmith, I roll those dice to try to score another town mislynch.

6) The execution of this strategy was poor for reasons discussed above.

Still not entirely 100% awake, feel free to correct me via context issues, etc.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Nexus and redirector are typically scum roles, are they not?

I wouldn't expect you to admit to them.

I have no idea, I've never played in games where they've been a thing.

[Eldrick]

Damn sleep deprivation.

Clarity activate!



Oh, uh no, stream of consciousness made that unclear. I mean either 2 3rd parties or a 4 man mafia. Not both.

That makes more sense. Still think 3 mafia and SK is more likely to be the only anti-town.

[Raith Kemmler]

Still not entirely 100% awake, feel free to correct me via context issues, etc.

No no, keep posting half asleep. That was fantastic. I get now why you were chosen for the Champs.

Roomie talked about null activity arguments, but I'd never seen one till now. Nice.

[Eldrick]

Speaking of half asleep, I'm at the other end of the spectrum. I work overnights, and I'm heading to bed now.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Vote: BSmith

In order to move my vote, BSmith must present a plausible alternative theory of whodunit without copying me.

[Al Sipsclar]

Vote: BSmith.

I'd lynch BSmith>Raith>GH|atheotes>Eldrick>ATPG. I'm wary of atheotes for [a lack of] meta reasons.

[Raith Kemmler]

Vote: BSmith.

I'd lynch BSmith>Raith>GH|atheotes>Eldrick>ATPG. I'm wary of atheotes for [a lack of] meta reasons.

If Eldrick is mafia he wins MVP no matter what happens.

Atheotes doesn't feel like his last game I played where he was evil.

[GeneralHankerchief]

This lack of further discussion is a bit unnerving.

[Askthepizzaguy]

This lack of further discussion is a bit unnerving.

ok

Assume your guess is wrong. Second guess, for tomorrow?

[Sooh]

Vote count:

GeneralHankerchief (2) - Eldrick, atheotes

BSmith (4) - Raith Kemmler, GeneralHankerchief, Askthepizzaguy, Al Sipsclar

Not voting: BSmith

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461358800.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461358800.png)

[GeneralHankerchief]

ok

Assume your guess is wrong. Second guess, for tomorrow?

Voting patterns say Raith, but gut instinct says Al Sipsclar. I'd do another recheck but right now, gun to my head, I'm voting Al Sipsclar.

[Raith Kemmler]

Naw, Al's clean, I'm sure with the redirect shenanigans going on night 2.

Role Claim: Cop

17935

Investigations

Choxorn (dead town)

Al (town)

Atheotes (town)

Bsmith (mafia)

Game's over unless 2 mafia since bus driver's can't self drive AFAIK.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Wow, those are some lucky scans.

[Eldrick]

Naw, Al's clean, I'm sure with the redirect shenanigans going on night 2.

Role Claim: Cop

17935

Investigations

Choxorn (dead town)

Al (town)

Atheotes (town)

Bsmith (mafia)

Game's over unless 2 mafia since bus driver's can't self drive AFAIK.


Unvote
Vote: BSmith

Why did you wait til now to reveal a red peek?

[Eldrick]

Why wouldn't they be able to self drive?

[Raith Kemmler]

Why wouldn't they be able to self drive?

Never played with one with one who could.

Didn't immediately reveal because it makes the day dull and low information.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Bus drivers should be able to self drive. Never run across one who couldn't.

If BSmith is mafia, odds of there being 2 scums remaining is higher, was not anticipating a cop claim this game with 2 shot vig, 2 shot commuter, and town mason pair.

Mafia is screwed in this setup without at least 2 more bodies than a pair of vanilla goons, recommended they have powers and not just 2 bodies.

Bus driver is needed to counter the vig and the cop for sure. I highly doubt they deliberately bussed such a role. Possible if several townies already voted them, thus GH is still possible.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Basically, GH could have bus driven himself the night Visor shot him, and bus driven himself with BSmith to implicate BSmith.

If BSmith is a villager, you always lynch GH I think.

But otherwise, I wouldn't go for GH next round and certainly not today.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Sippy cup being clean I would tend to agree with, given the bus driving that happened.

Also would estimate that atheotes is clean as well, just by odds alone.

[Eldrick]

Basically, GH could have bus driven himself the night Visor shot him, and bus driven himself with BSmith to implicate BSmith.

If BSmith is a villager, you always lynch GH I think.

But otherwise, I wouldn't go for GH next round and certainly not today.

So if BSmith is a villager, you wouldn't doubt Raith's claim? Cuz that's where my mind goes.

Gh is probably still mafia because of visor's shot.

BSmith today. Gh tomorrow. If BSmith is villager, then it's probably gh and raith.

[Eldrick]

Balance of 4 scum and SK makes sense if there is also a cop.

[atheotes]

Well, only one way to go.

Unvote
Vote: BSmith

​Looks like pizza is trying to survive this game...

[GeneralHankerchief]

Looks like pizza is trying to survive this game...

What do you mean by this?

[Sooh]

Vote count:

BSmith (6) - Raith Kemmler, GeneralHankerchief, Askthepizzaguy, Al Sipsclar, Eldrick, atheotes

Not voting: BSmith

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461358800.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461358800.png)

[Sooh]

20 mins left until EOD 5.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Is time to die, mafia.

[Sooh]

That's a lynch!

BSmith (6) - Raith Kemmler, GeneralHankerchief, Askthepizzaguy, Al Sipsclar, Eldrick, atheotes

Not voting: BSmith

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461358800.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461358800.png)

[Askthepizzaguy]

I demand a recount!

[Sooh]

- Well it has to be this table lamp here, because who else is more suspicious than a table lamp?

- You're right. It must be.

- Yeah, something's not right with that guy.

-Someone so fancy lookin' ain't gonna be one of us.

- Can't be. He don't even look like no lamp. He looks like a white light box.

- It is him! I saw him! I saw him at night!

The poor table lamp had nothing to say. He just sat there as the accusations landed on him, one by one, until finally everyone in the living room were pointing their finger at him. It was pretty inevitable that he was the one to exit the living room that evening, and he landed on the floor with a big smash, pieces flying.

BSmith has been lynched!

https://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a48/myha82/IKEA%20mafia/Seam%20Two%20table%20lamp%20-%20Role%20Cop_zpsrggyyamd.png

He was Seam Two table lamp, mafia 2x role cop.

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/bla_1461445200.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/bla_1461445200.png)

Just wondering if anyone would like me to shorten the phases now towards the end of the game? Make it hammer and night until all night actions are in with 48/24 still as max length? Let me know please. I don't want to drag it out if you guys don't think it's necessary.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Holy poop on a stick, there was 4 mafia.

Jebus. Better get a-researchin' folks. This was gonan be a slaughter until the vig saved our collective arses.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Degree of villageriness:

100 percent: Askthepizzaguy- mason proven

99.9 percent: Al Sipsclar- reliably scanned innocent, or simply isn't Raith who would have to be mafia if Raith was lying somehow.

90 percent: Raith (should he die... and he should)- cop relatively proven, keep in mind tonight's results are likely bogus due to bus driver

-------------------------------Find the one villager below this line to win.

60 percent: atheotes- unreliably scanned innocent, could have been bus driven, need to recheck but possibly ok.

60 percent: Eldrick- seems fine, but need to recheck khaan and Eldricks' play

30 percent: Generalmafiachief- suspect numero uno, lynch tomorrow, probably bussing Bsmith today. Recheck tho.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Actually ixnay that, Raith's results don't mean anything at all until he flips. It's ez to fake.

[Askthepizzaguy]

****************************************

Ok on further review, one of GH or Raith bussed BSmith today. One with a big nice looking case, and one with a cop claim that I am starting to seriously doubt.

This cop claim doesn't need to be resolved by the mafia- they have a bus driver, so on the atheotes scan night, it's not even a reliable result, and killing said cop confirms his story. They're close enough to endgame where it's not a problem to leave him alive because it's someone they'd have to resolve using one of town's two remaining lynches.

This cop claim also came late, after BSmith was already under serious fire, and Raith was under heavy suspicion as well for tomorrow if BSmith wasn't mafia.

So, I sense a desperation maneuver here by Raith Kemmler.

In my opinion, based on GH's case on Smith, GH feels slightly more genuine.

Lynch Raith Kemmler tomorrow, he's not a real cop, that ends the game.

If not, and he is the real cop, then you should lynch GH at final 3 and I think this wins.

**************************************

[Askthepizzaguy]

That's without analyzing each person deeply. So next step is to do the hard work and look at each person and make sure it makes sense. If I die I'm asking people to do this for me.

If not I'll try to do it in the AM.

[Eldrick]

Just wondering if anyone would like me to shorten the phases now towards the end of the game? Make it hammer and night until all night actions are in with 48/24 still as max length? Let me know please. I don't want to drag it out if you guys don't think it's necessary.

vote: yes

[Sooh]

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/bla_1461445200.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/bla_1461445200.png)

[Askthepizzaguy]

Never got around to this. Bring it home.

[Sooh]

It was cold and lonely now on the couch. The last pillow missed his friend, and the dark night was even darker and more scary without a good friend by his side. He tried to huddle up close to the couch itself, but it simply wasn't the same.

He turned to his side, sighed and tried closing his eyes.

Suddenly he felt like something was moving close to him.

- Hello? Who's there?

- Sshh! Be quiet!

A whisper from across the room rung out. The pillow shivered, but said nothing more. He moved slightly, adjusting across the cushions of the couch, pressing himself further into the corner.

Several hour later, and after listening to a lot of snoring from the other furniture the pillow fell asleep. He never woke up again. His seams were slit on both sides and his stuffing fell out, covering the couch yet again with fluff.

Askthepizzaguy has been killed.

https://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a48/myha82/IKEA%20mafia/gullklocka-Mason_zpslj1nbk4l.jpg

He was Gullklocka pillow, town mason.

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461618000.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461618000.png)

[Raith Kemmler]

Scan: Eldrick is town.

GH is last mafioso or Eldrick has played everyone. Or Atheotes has changed since last evil game.

But gut says GH.

Lynch me, lynch GH, game is over.

Vote: GH

[GeneralHankerchief]

Vote: Raith Kemmler

Pretty self-explanatory at this point.

[Eldrick]

Vote: GH

Raith tomorrow if it's not you.

[Eldrick]

Scan: Eldrick is town.

GH is last mafioso or Eldrick has played everyone. Or Atheotes has changed since last evil game.

But gut says GH.

Lynch me, lynch GH, game is over.

Vote: GH

Actually.


Unvote

Vote: Raith


If you scanned me, why are you questioning me?

Do you really think I'd be GF busdriver?

[Al Sipsclar]

Vote: Raith per Pizza's last will and testament.


Voting patterns say Raith, but gut instinct says Al Sipsclar. I'd do another recheck but right now, gun to my head, I'm voting Al Sipsclar.

I think GH is town, because scum don't have gut instincts to lynch a townie. They use logic for that.

[Al Sipsclar]

Also, I don't think we have alignment cops in 2016 anymore.

[Eldrick]

Alignment cops are very much still a thing. Maybe not on this site, I can't really be a judge of that.

[Sooh]

Vote count:

Raith (2) - Eldrick, Al Sipsclar

Not voting: Raith Kemmler, GeneralHankerchief, atheotes

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461618000.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461618000.png)

I am not making it a hammer game until everyone playing has said it's ok. Currently that's not the case. Let me know in thread or in PM.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Sooh, Raith and I voted in posts 988 and 989.

[Raith Kemmler]

Also, I don't think we have alignment cops in 2016 anymore.

The Not Mafia SK said otherwise before he died.



I think GH is town, because scum don't have gut instincts to lynch a townie. They use logic for that.

Bad argument.


Actually.


Unvote

Vote: Raith


If you scanned me, why are you questioning me?

Do you really think I'd be GF busdriver?

Paranoia mostly.

Unvote;
Vote:Raith

Flip, night kill, lynch GH tomorrow. Simple. Don't lynch someone else no matter what he says.

So, can we hammer this guys?

[Sooh]

Sooh, Raith and I voted in posts 988 and 989.

Right you are.

Don't know how I missed those.

Should be current now:




Vote count:

Raith (4) - Eldrick, Al Sipsclar, GeneralHankerchief, Raith Kemmler

Not voting: atheotes

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461618000.png (http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/tur_1461618000.png)

[Eldrick]

So...not doing the hammer thing, then?

[Eldrick]

If it isn't Raith, I'm voting gh tomorrow. Cuz if Raith really is the cop, then is it obviously gh. Raith viewed everyone else.

IMO we could end the game now. Al and atehtos, is there any chance at all you would vote outside of gh tomorrow if Raith flips cop?