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Montmorency
02-12-2022, 18:39
Looks like common sense (https://twitter.com/chrischirp/status/1491891791490125825):


THREAD: I keep being asked when we can go "back to normal" or "like it was before". My personal thoughts:

We've added a new disease to our population, more infectious and more severe than flu.

The world pre 2020 no longer exists - we may want it to, but it just doesn't.

Vaccines are amazing but do wane - esp vs sympomatic infection. Immunity from infection wanes too.

Surely Omicron has proven that high levels of antibodies in your population are no guarantee against v high levels of illness & disruption.

We *could* act as we used to & accept millions of people getting sick once or twice a year. Yearly education, business disruption. And gradually, a slightly sicker pop'n. That seems to be the current plan in UK and e.g. US.

But that's NOT the *old normal* - it's worse

We *can't* go back - but we *can* go forward *if* we accept we need some adaptations - driven by what we have *learned*.

Learning:

1. Outdoors is pretty safe - so let's invest research and funding into making indoor air as much like the outdoors as possible It's *not* easy, but it *is* possible - we did it with clean water, electricity infrastructure, CFCs, telephone and broadband... The best thing about cleaner indoor air is it works against *any* airborne disease and also reduces e.g. allergies.

2. Vaccinate the world as soon as possible - and keep working towards vaccines that are longer lasting and more variant proof.

3. Invest in global infrastructure to support surveillance of new variants of Covid *and* other new infectious diseases. There will be more.

4. Add permanent surveillance of Covid infection rates in UK to existing programmes for flu, measles etc in public health

5. Invest in understanding & treating longer term clinical impacts of Covid, inc organ damage & Long Covid + treatments (eg antivirals) for acute phase.

6. We need to urgently increase funding and staffing for NHS if it is expected to cope with regular Covid surges *and* existing backlogs *and* years of understaffing and not enough money. This includes *supporting* existing staff to stay..!

7. There *will* still be future surges. We need to have a plan to deal with these surges - as we do for other diseases. A plan which is supported by the rapid outbreak identification & rapid understanding of virulence & transmission we've learned to do so well in the UK! The plan might include (temp) reintroduction of large scale testing (inc better tests?), high quality masks in indoor spaces and - *if & only if* there is a serious threat from e.g. a new variant (or disease!) - further measures, such as targeted test, trace & isolate. A plan should *not* mean long national lockdowns, which represent a failure of public health systems. In fact, refusing to do the *learning* in "learning to live with Covid" is the biggest risk for such future lockdowns.

8. We also need to invest massively in reducing inequalities: in health, in housing, in workplaces, in sick pay, in education - this will make us more resilient to future outbreaks and reduce ill health and death - from Covid & everything else!

Both nationally & globally. Fundamentally, world is different now. Acting as if it isn't, which UK seems determined to do, may feel good in short term but will result in a new normal worse than the old one.

I prefer for us to build a new normal that's *better* than frequent sickness & disruption. 13/13

Furunculus
02-12-2022, 19:41
I'm confused by the premise of the article:

"A new world demanding new solutions, and one in which the US and UK are refusing to recognise!"

Most of those measures are ones that the UK at least is just as far in support of as many other nations, and possibly a damn sight further than most too. #2 #3 #4 #5 #6

#1 does seem to speak to the new paradigm the author refers too, and while it is not at all clear to me that this is a direction that the UK is prioritising nor too can I see any definitive trend to that goal that leaves the UK looking like an outlier. And don't forget, Sturgeon (in the UK) has an ambitious plan to saw the bottoms off of school doors up and down the nation of scotland!

#7 seems to be a mild sentiment in favour of good practice that would see appropriate measures applied in moderation as and when a situation demands it. Grand! But again, i'm not seeing the UK as an outlier here...

#8 is interesting tho: "We also need to invest massively in reducing inequalities...". This is hardly a revelatory change in response to some grand reset in how the world behaves post covid. It is quite literally how the US and UK have been as a general trend vs european social democracy. The two have always placed a greater emphasis on negative liberty than positive. It is the status-quo, that has survived 50 years of democratic choice, and will be up to the electorate if the want to upend the accepted political settlement just because covid came along.

Montmorency
02-13-2022, 21:46
She didn't say the UK is an outlier.

Furunculus
02-14-2022, 10:06
apologies if i misunderstood. perhaps i misread the opening section:


The world pre 2020 no longer exists - we may want it to, but it just doesn't. Vaccines are amazing but do wane - esp vs sympomatic infection. Immunity from infection wanes too. Surely Omicron has proven that high levels of antibodies in your population are no guarantee against v high levels of illness & disruption. We *could* act as we used to & accept millions of people getting sick once or twice a year. Yearly education, business disruption. And gradually, a slightly sicker pop'n. That seems to be the current plan in UK and e.g. US. But that's NOT the *old normal* - it's worse

Montmorency
02-14-2022, 22:50
apologies if i misunderstood. perhaps i misread the opening section:

Her take is that the US and UK are not investing adequately in Covid prevention and mitigation, presumptively with the continuation of results that we've seen in prior waves of infection (unless the pandemic happens to wind down) - not that the US and UK are unusual in this.

Meanwhile, in Hong Kong bizarro world:


Controlled borders, ubiquitous mask-wearing and strict quarantining meant months have sometimes passed without a locally transmitted infection. But one side-effect was the elderly not wanting (or not bothering) to be jabbed. Only 30% of over-80s and 60% of over-70s have chosen to have a first dose, compared with 86% of residents aged 12-69.

Did they run out of points in attribute allocation?

Montmorency
02-16-2022, 22:50
Again emphasizing (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2022/02/vaccinate-old/622080/) the strong effects of vaccination and of age.

https://i.imgur.com/lDBdI6T.png

For reference, less than 1% of the American population consists of unvaccinated senior citizens. Maybe no more than 2.5% of the population if counting unvaccinated people over 50. And yet almost all the Covid deaths and hospitalizations since the summer, all the degradation of our healthcare system, the criminal Republican politics and the street violence and harassment and anti-masking, the people who make liberal politicians timid in the inseam, come out of this cohort.

2.5%. You think any human settlement from 99.9% of our history would have hesitated to banish 2 or 3 folks like this? If they weren't already in charge that is...

Montmorency
02-19-2022, 07:17
Beautiful (https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1493650990976933889). Though I think the author conflates IFR (infection fatality ratio) with CFR (case fatality ratio), since the caption indicates only a confirmed set of cases was used as data.

https://i.imgur.com/GkTyASm.jpg

Shaka_Khan
03-04-2022, 02:37
The Taiwanese are very successful in preventing their infection rate from skyrocketing without using draconian measures. Amongst the countries with low infections, Taiwan has one of the larger populations. Taiwan noticed that something was wrong in China early on and acted quickly. Taiwan tried to warn the world, but the country is excluded from the WHO due to the complex relationship with China.

Montmorency
03-04-2022, 03:11
EDIT: Wrong thread.

Shaka_Khan
03-04-2022, 23:55
Sometimes I wonder if the Delta variant is still spreading or whether it's mostly Omicron now.

Montmorency
03-08-2022, 17:57
Because Hong Kong didn't prioritize vaccinating its elderly until just now (see earlier post), thousands will die this year, probably more than ten thousand. Almost all Hong Kong Covid deaths have been over the past month.

https://i.imgur.com/9N8vBBM.jpg

Seamus Fermanagh
03-15-2022, 17:14
Wow.

Almost a 'Logan's Run' effect.

Montmorency
03-20-2022, 22:30
More on China, specifically Hong Kong (https://www.grid.news/story/global/2022/03/17/covid-success-to-covid-disaster-what-happened-in-hong-kong/), squandering the immense advantage of two years. China's ongoing surge is the worst in 25 months (with the first recorded Covid deaths in over a year), and Hong Kong has recorded 99% of its Covid deaths in the past 5 weeks.

https://i.imgur.com/2zXvLJf.png
https://i.imgur.com/qg1feYM.png

Shaka_Khan
06-26-2024, 02:38
This thread has historical value - reminding us how we thought about this pandemic during the early phase when this virus was new to us. I had forgotten that I started this thread. I had also forgotten that a few people were annoyed at my warning. I can see why. Western mainstream media hadn't mentioned the outbreak when I started this thread. The South China Morning Post mentioned it in January 2020, but claimed that it would be over soon. Another thing that I noticed is that YouTube deleted the Chinese whistleblower videos. On the other hand, videos on the pandemic in other countries remain. This will certainly leave the wrong impression to the future generations if this type of censorship continues. China has more influence on much of the world's media than I had thought prior to 2020.



Speaking of testing, this is another excellent visualization:

https://i.imgur.com/KSBgamD.jpg
This might explain why South Korea seemed to have the most infections after the spike in China. South Korea began testing in large scale earlier than the other countries. And we all know that countries stopped counting at different times, some after the later variant turned out to be less worrisome. I'm sure that at least one stopped in early 2020. We should tell the future generations not to rely on the online infections chart because this is clearly not a reliable source on which countries had more infections. Just use it as reference to see how it made us think about the pandemic at that time. It has been said that South Korea lowered the infection rate due to early social distancing and mask mandates. I think it's more because people got spooked by the early spike in South Korea, which made the tourists avoid South Korea. Later on, the lockdowns in other countries prevented them from leaving their countries. Thus, the virus had stopped entering South Korea at that time. At the same time, most of the South Korean infected recovered. The hospitals in South Korea never got overwhelmed. Also during this time, most of the countries banned any South Koreans from entering. Surprisingly, Trump never banned the South Koreans from entering. This is the same Trump who had banned not just the Chinese, but also the Europeans from entering. The only reason why the South Koreans didn't travel to the US at that time was because of the lockdowns in the US. Thus, South Korea didn't have to worry about having any infected returning. And South Korea didn't experience shortages since there was no panic buying. Thanks to the low rate of infections, South Korea is one of the countries that never had any lockdowns. Here are some footages of South Korea when a lot of the other countries were going through lockdowns.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP7SeULCNJA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5-VKlJ-oL8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2NJPth4yy8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UlOohkMZnI

Olaf The Great
11-15-2024, 10:12
Anybody heard of those coronavirus frauds still happening? I think they should get more ALJ hearings (https://federal-lawyer.com/healthcare-defense/defending-medicare-fraud/alj-hearing-defense/).

Shaka_Khan
11-16-2024, 03:12
Anybody heard of those coronavirus frauds still happening?
I haven't heard of anyone getting it this year.