Log in

View Full Version : Mini Mafia Game Sufjan 10er [Game Thread]



Pages : 1 2 [3] 4

Visor
05-24-2022, 10:42
on a more important note

I decided to seriously get into chess a few days ago, been really slow because of rl stuff but I'm getting there w/r/t learning the basic stuff and it's being a lot of fun so far

if you want to play infinite time correspondence games with a chess noob hmu after the game

Visor
05-24-2022, 10:42
The part about never pushing each other is more accurate for me than defending.
I tend not to defend scum partners in most cases, but I do definitely push them.
Lantana would have been in my nulls in my POE, where I would express some suspicion of them but not enough to get them wagoned.
If a wagon did start to form, though, I would place a vote there in case a bus is necessary.
In my most recent wolf game, 1/3 partners were placed in my villa reads, because they were universally villa read, one was placed as a wolf read, one was null-scum on my list.
I bussed the one in my wolf reads, and in F5 cased the hell out of my partner and a LHF villager that had some partner equity with him, to give the impression that they were the last two wolves, then directed the vote toward the villager to win it.
No one believed that I could be scum with anyone.

so wheres your head at rn?

can i get some sort of ordered list?

Mischief
05-24-2022, 10:51
nobody wolfread dya iirc
if dya is correct, wolves are just ender/lantana

ender/mischief/insom are my poe

re mischief and lantana interaction sunbae: it didn't feel to me like there was any real attempt by lantana or mischief to engage with each other. michief had the entry that taffy and i commented on but lantana didnt, (even though lantana saw the posts because they commented on me after that iirc), and the question lantana asked mischief is something that could easily be w/w in that its a very simple fake interaction thingo

the light townread stuff but also never interacting seems weird to me on both ends

For me, a light townread means "I don't have much to substantiate this, or have a strong belief in the accuracy of this, but have a leaning in this direction".
I thought their earlier posts were tonally lightly villagery.
That said, there are always plenty of posts that I really don't have many thoughts on, or anything to contribute.
E.g. Sunbae's analyses above, I think are good overall.
I have nothing really to contribute there, though.
I have no critiques, no confusion, and mere acknowledgement contributes nothing.
If I see something that is wrong, that seems to have an agenda, or bothers me in any way, I am more likely to pursue that.
In the case of Lantana, there wasn't any specific post that hit my radar, overall, but any time anyone asks me a question, I will answer that to the best of my ability.

Even IRL, I'm not an enormously chatty person, unless there is something to work with.
I tend not to start conversations unless I have something in mind to talk about.
The same principle more or less applies in Mafia as well.

Ephemeral
05-24-2022, 10:52
re your post eph: theres no real follow up by either mischief or lantana after that

i found this post weird - they made multiple posts saying eph is a good wagon and then posting this is just weird

mischief then goes on to vote you

Aye, it was easy to read into it as far as "either side is being opportunistic" but it feels really strange as a w/w interaction

lolme if i'm overthinking a very simplistic scenario again but atm I'm just vacillating on it hard

Ephemeral
05-24-2022, 10:53
if you want to play infinite time correspondence games with a chess noob hmu after the game

Not sure if I even qualify as a noob yet but yeah I'd be down to:2thumbsup:

Visor
05-24-2022, 10:55
mate if you are a villa you gotta help me get there on you

i need to see some solving from you, i need to see you trying to actively work out who the wolf is, most of your posts this phase have been responses or explanations about yourself but i need to see you figuring out the last wolf

er actually all of your posts fit that bill - all of your posts today are about explaining your behaviour. who is the last wolf?

Visor
05-24-2022, 10:56
Aye, it was easy to read into it as far as "either side is being opportunistic" but it feels really strange as a w/w interaction

lolme if i'm overthinking a very simplistic scenario again but atm I'm just vacillating on it hard

fair enough

if not mischief, then who

insom? ender? sunbae?

Ephemeral
05-24-2022, 11:01
fair enough

if not mischief, then who

insom? ender? sunbae?

insom is currently sitting in the void for me, I can see him fitting with lantana but I'm gonna have to reread the two to make sure I'm not missing smth there

sunbae I think is a villager

ender I've mellowed out on a little bit since yesterday, though that's mostly a byproduct of the stuff between lan/mischief that's been hoarding my attention

Mischief
05-24-2022, 11:22
so wheres your head at rn?

can i get some sort of ordered list?


Mischief: Me
Sunbae: Easily the most villagery person in the game from my perspective. A voice of reason in the thread, but further, if they were a wolf they are playing in a way that is somewhat contrary to how a wolf would typically play.
They are dissolving tensions rather than capitalising off of them.
Raskolnikov: I don't see a world where Rask/Lantana are wolves together. I also thought Rask responded fairly well when I was pushing him, enough that I did not feel like voting there would yield a wolf. At this point, I'd say he's a villager.
Visor: You have certainly been a point of frustration at some points, I will admit.
Ephemeral: I don't really have a lot of thoughts on this slot, but them being a wagon that was started at EOD (which I am aware that I voted on), which Lantana was at the front of, makes them an unlikely wolf flip.
I understand that my writing is stiff, you and quite a few others across any number of games have said so.
It is thoroughly NAI for me.
I was also a little bothered by the fact in your push you mention me not interacting with someone on page 1, when I wasn't even around for the majority of page 1. Again, I'm not bothered by accurate pushes. If there is something that looks bad for me and someone calls that out, that is 100% fair. What is not fair, is to make a case that can be recontextualised as this "I think you worked with the murderer because you had not contact with them while you were on holiday in Jamaica".
Surely you can understand my incredulity at that?
It would be one thing if someone said "the murderer used a Glock, and we see you own one", which would be an understandable suspicion to have.
Aside from the pushes that on NAI things, or arguments with an absurd foundation, I think it is less likely that you and Lantana are W/W from your interactions, Dya V read you, Sunbae V reads you, and I V read them and know that they read you better than I. So everything mentioned above is simply to contextualise why although I logically see you as a probable villager, I do so in spite of a plethora of things that have bothered me, that would lead to me tunneling you if not for the fact I understand that you may not know what IS alignment indicative for me. (If that sounds hostile at all, also know that I still respect you as both a person and a player, even if I felt a little tilted about some some things)
EnderWiggin: I have had a difficult time really getting a proper read on this slot. It's here because of POE.
insomnia: Looks worst overall from the flip/interactions.

Nothing that really goes against the consensus, but that's where I'm at.

Mischief
05-24-2022, 11:27
Mischief: Me
Sunbae: Easily the most villagery person in the game from my perspective. A voice of reason in the thread, but further, if they were a wolf they are playing in a way that is somewhat contrary to how a wolf would typically play.
They are dissolving tensions rather than capitalising off of them.
Raskolnikov: I don't see a world where Rask/Lantana are wolves together. I also thought Rask responded fairly well when I was pushing him, enough that I did not feel like voting there would yield a wolf. At this point, I'd say he's a villager.
Ephemeral: I don't really have a lot of thoughts on this slot, but them being a wagon that was started at EOD (which I am aware that I voted on), which Lantana was at the front of, makes them an unlikely wolf flip.
Visor: You have certainly been a point of frustration at some points, I will admit.
I understand that my writing is stiff, you and quite a few others across any number of games have said so.
It is thoroughly NAI for me.
I was also a little bothered by the fact in your push you mention me not interacting with someone on page 1, when I wasn't even around for the majority of page 1. Again, I'm not bothered by accurate pushes. If there is something that looks bad for me and someone calls that out, that is 100% fair. What is not fair, is to make a case that can be recontextualised as this "I think you worked with the murderer because you had not contact with them while you were on holiday in Jamaica".
Surely you can understand my incredulity at that?
It would be one thing if someone said "the murderer used a Glock, and we see you own one", which would be an understandable suspicion to have.
Aside from the pushes that on NAI things, or arguments with an absurd foundation, I think it is less likely that you and Lantana are W/W from your interactions, Dya V read you, Sunbae V reads you, and I V read them and know that they read you better than I. So everything mentioned above is simply to contextualise why although I logically see you as a probable villager, I do so in spite of a plethora of things that have bothered me, that would lead to me tunneling you if not for the fact I understand that you may not know what IS alignment indicative for me. (If that sounds hostile at all, also know that I still respect you as both a person and a player, even if I felt a little tilted about some some things)
EnderWiggin: I have had a difficult time really getting a proper read on this slot. It's here because of POE.
insomnia: Looks worst overall from the flip/interactions.

Nothing that really goes against the consensus, but that's where I'm at.

Ebwop, the Ephemeral section got pushed into the middle of the Visor section for some reason.

insomnia
05-24-2022, 12:29
Mischief can you explain why you were adding me in your read lines posts despite not having much of a read there? It irks me since lantana was doing the exact same thing, tho you voting to save me is a slight good look ngl

I didn’t read in depth (or ~at all) most of the casing on me cuz i can’t rn but i think anyone paying attention can see i’m not with lantana

Apparently im wrong and im biased or you are all not paying attention :curtain:

I’ll say that i was kinda mad not sticking to the early read especially since it seemed newcombian, i guess it wasn’t a read really but i should’ve pursued it by pushing more

My initial thoughts without re-reading attentively are that mischief / ender are the options here and i lean mischief personally just cuz it felt to me like ender had 0 suspicions / didn’t build much of an agenda

insomnia
05-24-2022, 12:31
To be clear, 0 suspicion = he didn?t make too many suspicions. I?d figure a wolf would attempt to dive in action and stir the tides somehow but he seemed pretty passive and i usually have a tough time associating it with wolves. Can anyone say if i?m wrong making this read on ender?

insomnia
05-24-2022, 12:31
Ok so the ? Posters were mobile posters

insomnia
05-24-2022, 12:36
Also mischief u said i look worst from “interactions”

Did u make any case saying why / which ones? It feels like you’re just parroting the thread / following consensus but aren’t showing the work. U came into today pushing me while gth me village, you should have some reason for saying that

EnderWiggin
05-24-2022, 13:14
To be clear, 0 suspicion = he didn?t make too many suspicions. I?d figure a wolf would attempt to dive in action and stir the tides somehow but he seemed pretty passive and i usually have a tough time associating it with wolves. Can anyone say if i?m wrong making this read on ender?

That's not a good way to read me. =P

Mischief
05-24-2022, 13:18
Also mischief u said i look worst from “interactions”

Did u make any case saying why / which ones? It feels like you’re just parroting the thread / following consensus but aren’t showing the work. U came into today pushing me while gth me village, you should have some reason for saying that

Kind of hard for me to be following the consensus on this one when I concluded this and voted you before the consensus.

For now I'll place my vote on what seems most likely out of the options
Vote: Insomnia


The only thing I dislike about this is that I did think they were a little villagery at some points, but I also thought that of Lantana.

Unrelated: it doesn't look like I have covid (thankfully), I feel better today. It must have been either foodborne illness or maybe cross contamination with an allergen (I ate at a ramen shop, and the only allergy I really know about is shellfish).


That said, I will absolutely not deny that others such as Sunbae have actually put forth the effort to actually go through and piece together the interactions you had with Lantana, and write out a more complete case.
I didn't write an abundance on the subject, but I did read for a while after the flips and arrived at my conclusion.
From the way Lantana talked about you, to the EOD vote on Ephemeral, there is plenty of potential partner equity there.


That isn't to say that I'm certain that you are the last wolf, just that there are enough things that I can't logically ignore, in spite of the fact at EOD I had the slightest tinge of belief that you might be a villager.

As such, I placed my vote where it makes sense.

That said, hopefully that makes sense, I'm going to sleep, because otherwise I'll sleep through my therapy appointment later.

insomnia
05-24-2022, 14:52
You still haven’t described why exactly i look bad off “flips / interactions”

Can you give some examples where you felt like i was w/w with lant?

insomnia
05-24-2022, 16:27
Alr so im gonna claim vigi

If i am not the vigi then he should give me a day for obvious reasons

If i am vigi im gonna give myself a day :curtain:

solve as though i am a villager please.

insomnia
05-24-2022, 16:30
vote: mischief

placeholder until he elaborates. likely i'll change it later

Zack
05-24-2022, 19:51
Official Tally as of #519

4 Mischief (Visor, EnderWiggin, Ephemeral, insomnia)
3 insomnia (Mischief, Sunbae, Raskolnikov)

Day 2 ends in thunderously calm

Mischief
05-24-2022, 21:04
V0te: Ender

No counterclaim as of yet, Insom will get vigged if lying.

Mischief
05-24-2022, 21:26
vote: mischief

placeholder until he elaborates. likely i'll change it later
Just vote me then.
I have therapy soon, and if I were to collect the quotes you'd just say "these are the same quotes others are using", at which point it would be little more than an exercise in tedium.

Sunbae
05-24-2022, 21:26
Insomnia,

I acknowledge your claim, but I think you're lying. I will not rocks fall this one though and will play ball because we're in a position to do that and it's mechanically the abc correct move.

Who do you think is a wolf? You're voting Mischief as a placeholder, think voting to save you is a good look, and have stated you're voting there because "the options" are Ender and Mischief and you town read Ender for their play near eod yesterday. If you ignored everything and just said "I'm voting my best wolf read" who would it be and why?


Vote: Ender

I don't have a strong reason to wolf read here but I have strong reasons to villa read everyone else. I think this is most likely a villager and it's Insomnia, especially after the claim, but if Insomnia is the vig then I think it has to be here. If it is the answer, I guess the early poking votes between Lan/Ender ("wolfiest slot so far" early) and the "I might vote you at eod" but never doing so was just distancing, but it's a very weird end of day by Lan to defend Insomnia hard/not defend Ender and being so hectic on Ephem. I can't say I really understand it if so.

As for Mischief, I think the reasons to wolf read there are just kind of not good. I think it's the product of momentum in the sense that it was an early wolf read that's just kind of stuck with people. You had the early "abe simpson" thing which I think can be explained by it being a new site, the push on Visor early which I think was weird for people on the outside but makes sense if you think Mischief believes Visor has better meta on him (I also think pushes of "this person should know me better than to think I'm being wolfy" are just kinda towny in general?), and the way Mischief grumbled about it once multiple people told him that's unreasonable also makes sense. So you had a first half of day 1 where people just kinda locked in "yeah thats weird" in the back of their mind and went about their day and now that there's one wolf left it's "well maybe it's the weird thing I remember". I don't think the lack of interaction with Lan is wolfy despite multiple others thinking so. The way the day played out I think they just *have* to do something if paired together. I don't think "you didn't explain in detail why my interactions look bad" is a reasonable case (I'm a bit miffed that this was said while ignoring my effort to showcase it). I just think from my experience that this is a villager being piled on today for things that aren't wolfy because the answer is obvious and we're trying to poke around in worlds in which it's not.

Sunbae
05-24-2022, 21:31
[QUOTE=Mischief;2053833504]
Aside from the pushes that on NAI things, or arguments with an absurd foundation, I think it is less likely that you and Lantana are W/W from your interactions, Dya V read you, Sunbae V reads you, and I V read them and know that they read you better than I. So everything mentioned above is simply to contextualise why although I logically see you as a probable villager, I do so in spite of a plethora of things that have bothered me, that would lead to me tunneling you if not for the fact I understand that you may not know what IS alignment indicative for me. (If that sounds hostile at all, also know that I still respect you as both a person and a player, even if I felt a little tilted about some some things)


[QUOTE]

Visor,

please read this and ask yourself if this is "a wolf that's annoyed that their push on you was derailed" or "a villager that finds the way you've interacted with them wolfy but will listen to their villager reads while grumbling about it"

Sunbae
05-24-2022, 21:33
Visor,

I think this is a moon in spec game situation

Sunbae
05-24-2022, 21:40
I am trying to be more persuasive in games. I think I've had a lot of games recently where I was doing a pretty decent job (not great, but not bad) but I just kind of *exist* and it doesn't amount to much. In this game I've tried to lay out a concise, easy to follow case on who I think the wolf is (i know, they claimed vig and now I'm begrudgingly voting Ender because thats what I'm supposed to do) as well as a defense on a villager read with game related, personal meta, overall werewolf theory, and perceived flawed logic of pushes there as reasons. I am very uncomfortable in the "look at me!" role (I got a bit happy for myself last postgame cause like, the wolves were elite and I was able to sift through it a decent amount but that was an outlier in back patting lol) but this is my best effort at it.

At this point I am comforted knowing that if I am correct, I think the game is won. I won't jump up and down anymore. I will say my piece and let others roll in and do their thing. If I am incorrect, I won't be the one to derail it further.

Sunbae
05-24-2022, 21:50
It's not a cool cat or doggo or rabbit but I did see a neat birb this morning (my mom started putting feeders/birdbath out in her backyard and now she gets these (robin i think?), cardinals, and blue jays out there. Pretty neat.

https://i.imgur.com/Au6R3vF.png

Raskolnikov
05-24-2022, 23:04
if insom is actually a villager, I am outing a tinfoil: Sunbae is the last wolf for how he handled EOD1. (cased insom, got people into the wagon, then followed Visor's flashwagon on a villager -> like it's easier to shrug the sus for that than what could fall upon you after you spearheaded the chop on a villager yourself. counterpoint: I do that a lot as a wolf. countercounterpoint: I am not a good wolf, Sunbae prolly is)

now that has been said, I don't really believe insom's claim. :curtain:

Raskolnikov
05-24-2022, 23:09
Alr so im gonna claim vigi

If i am not the vigi then he should give me a day for obvious reasons

If i am vigi im gonna give myself a day :curtain:

solve as though i am a villager please.

tbh lettuce us chop this claim lol. who claims and follow up with "if I am not the vig, he should give me a day for blabla"? a wolf hoping to hero shoot the real vig tonight? (I don't really see a vanillager make that claim? maybe?)

what am I missing here?

Visor
05-24-2022, 23:10
Ender or mischief then if we are going to give insomnia the day

Raskolnikov
05-24-2022, 23:11
oh lol, now I am wondering if Zack is outing PRs on flips. lol me I guess. hmm

Raskolnikov
05-24-2022, 23:12
vote: Mischief

Visor
05-24-2022, 23:12
tbh lettuce us chop this claim lol. who claims and follow up with "if I am not the vig, he should give me a day for blabla"? a wolf hoping to hero shoot the real vig tonight? (I don't really see a vanillager make that claim? maybe?)

what am I missing here?

So in the world he is the big, he maybe survives tonight and we get a f4 with vig alive which is good for win percentage

In the world he is the wolf he just does tonight so it doesn't matter

In the world he is a vanillagrr he dies tonight, maybe from big, maybe from wolf

Visor
05-24-2022, 23:19
vote: ender

Raskolnikov
05-24-2022, 23:24
vote: ender

You think BLade comes in D2 without trying like that? (I may be uncharitable here, wouldn't be the first time, but I just remember openwolfing from him today)

(I think you will reply, yeet wolfy players)

Raskolnikov
05-24-2022, 23:26
part of me just wants to sheep Visor here. the other one wants me to be right D1 and yeet Mischief lol. Might vote Ender and just blame Visor if he flips villa. Seems a good plan

Visor
05-24-2022, 23:26
You think BLade comes in D2 without trying like that? (I may be uncharitable here, wouldn't be the first time, but I just remember openwolfing from him today)

(I think you will reply, yeet wolfy players)

My options are: blade, who is actively shitposting

Mischief, who sunbae has moved heaven and earth to defend

Ephemeral: who got pushed a but by Lan but hasn't really been super villagery

Idkmybffjill

Raskolnikov
05-24-2022, 23:27
ok let's go

vote: Ender

Visor
05-24-2022, 23:31
The only reason I'm not voting mischief is because of sunbae. I still don't think he's done any solving especially today and focused entirely on defending himself, but if sunbae believes it that strongly and I think sunbae is probably a villager I'm just going to throw up my hands and say fine, have it your way and if he's right good, if he's wrong rip and if he's a wolf trying to keep a ml alive for endgame I guess I'll make that decision when the time comes

Zack
05-24-2022, 23:32
Official Tally as of #538

3 EnderWiggin (Sunbae, Visor, Raskolnikov)
3 Mischief (EnderWiggin, Ephemeral, insomnia)

1 insomnia (Mischief)

Day 2 ends in thunderously calm

Visor
05-24-2022, 23:34
The eph push could be distancing maybe

Eso given backing off q bit once it got some legs

Visor
05-24-2022, 23:49
i feel like ive been heavily miscontrued in my posting against mischief

so on page 1 and page 2 (1-80, 80-160 post num) lantana does not comment on mischiefs initial entry nor on any of the reads on mischiefs initial entry (does townread me and i talk about it a little). mishcief reappears, also does not respond to any of lantanas post or pose any questions there. lantana reappears, does not question any of mischiefs posts.

mishcief and lantana are in the thread at hte same time, post at the same timeframe (82-83) yet have no questions for each other, no discussion of each other.both mischief and lantana go on to post that page and still do not interact with each other. they say hi once. thats it.

Raskolnikov
05-24-2022, 23:57
Official Tally as of #538

3 EnderWiggin (Sunbae, Visor, Raskolnikov)
3 Mischief (EnderWiggin, Ephemeral, insomnia)

1 insomnia (Mischief)

Day 2 ends in thunderously calm

Zack: Mischief voted Ender, well he v0ted Ender to be precise :creep:

Raskolnikov
05-25-2022, 00:04
V0te: Ender

No counterclaim as of yet, Insom will get vigged if lying.

"No counterclaim as of yet, Insom will get vigged if lying." I am just trying to figure out if a vanillager says that. I can see a wolf posting this in case insom is actually vanilla town lol but :shrug: I prolly should go to bed rn since I can't think lol. but but EOD is within few minutes!

Sunbae
05-25-2022, 00:04
The only reason I'm not voting mischief is because of sunbae. I still don't think he's done any solving especially today and focused entirely on defending himself, but if sunbae believes it that strongly and I think sunbae is probably a villager I'm just going to throw up my hands and say fine, have it your way and if he's right good, if he's wrong rip and if he's a wolf trying to keep a ml alive for endgame I guess I'll make that decision when the time comes


i feel like ive been heavily miscontrued in my posting against mischief

so on page 1 and page 2 (1-80, 80-160 post num) lantana does not comment on mischiefs initial entry nor on any of the reads on mischiefs initial entry (does townread me and i talk about it a little). mishcief reappears, also does not respond to any of lantanas post or pose any questions there. lantana reappears, does not question any of mischiefs posts.

mishcief and lantana are in the thread at hte same time, post at the same timeframe (82-83) yet have no questions for each other, no discussion of each other.both mischief and lantana go on to post that page and still do not interact with each other. they say hi once. thats it.

Ok. I think at this point the correct course of action for me is to see multiple villager reads of mine tell me they think I'm wrong and adjust instead of digging in my heels. I still really, really think the answer is just Insomnia and this is the "well claim I guess" last death throes of a well cased wolf that can't really argue out of it. Games get really wonky when it's small and a wolf died before d2, the clears are pretty solid and for good reasons, and what else can he do at that point? If it's not though, I will take a step back and reevaluate properly based on this specific game rather than my ideals of what wolves should be doing, my understanding of meta, and deference to others.

Sunbae
05-25-2022, 00:04
The eph push could be distancing maybe

Eso given backing off q bit once it got some legs

Let me double check on this

Visor
05-25-2022, 00:07
if the wolf is insomnia, nothing we do today really matters as long as the vig doesnt die

in which case we look silly now, but the game is over.

if insomnia is the vig, we are making the right decision, if insomnia is a vanillager, i guess its also technically correct to not kill him?

Visor
05-25-2022, 00:10
EnderWiggin

last rites pal

Sunbae
05-25-2022, 00:10
I note a POE of Rasko Ender and Taffy written in your reads list but no comments on Taffy's bigger post that immediately followed.
(that is wolfy!)

Why no comments? I found it a touch towny on a surface level


Vote: Ephemeral

I don't really want to kill visor today; insomnia I was fine with him (by extension raskolnikov saying I was shading insomnia is not nya).
lemme order my reads


Not to subtly defend existing wagons, however,

Can those that are here nya about their Ephe read? I have him way more sus than insomnia at the moment


Nya


Sunbae
Taffy
Mischief
Dyachei
Visorslash
Raskolnikov
Enderwiggin
Ephemeral

Dyachei is probably true null which means I need to find more town reads and/or dyachei needs to be townier

I also had insomnia has my third town but I didn't wanna have him there if he's gonna flip wolf in 10 minutes nya
I def prefer Ephemeral, I can go check his posts again to confirm this (or potentially feel differently :bow:)


Alright better check this wagon again if people will actually listen to me lol

Visor,

Can you talk more about the "backing off" part? I don't see it myself but I am uh, not with it currently.

Sunbae
05-25-2022, 00:10
if the wolf is insomnia, nothing we do today really matters as long as the vig doesnt die

in which case we look silly now, but the game is over.

if insomnia is the vig, we are making the right decision, if insomnia is a vanillager, i guess its also technically correct to not kill him?

Yeah, I'm just grumbling don't mind me

Visor
05-25-2022, 00:11
Ok. I think at this point the correct course of action for me is to see multiple villager reads of mine tell me they think I'm wrong and adjust instead of digging in my heels. I still really, really think the answer is just Insomnia and this is the "well claim I guess" last death throes of a well cased wolf that can't really argue out of it. Games get really wonky when it's small and a wolf died before d2, the clears are pretty solid and for good reasons, and what else can he do at that point? If it's not though, I will take a step back and reevaluate properly based on this specific game rather than my ideals of what wolves should be doing, my understanding of meta, and deference to others.

i will say, when i get reads like this i feel like i am usually wrong for the right reasons where villagers have fallen into 'a trap' of posting

so its possible i am just giving mischief a hard time because he keeps running into webs of things i think are not villagery, but hes just a villager stumbling around blindly

Visor
05-25-2022, 00:12
Visor,

Can you talk more about the "backing off" part? I don't see it myself but I am uh, not with it currently.

the last two posts and the whole, i better check this wagon before it actually takes off thing that they have once people actually start to vote ephemeral

Mischief
05-25-2022, 00:14
Ephemeral and Lantana: an overview (pt 1, I seem to have run out of multiquotes and can't quote any more than what I have)


just quickly went through stuff, found sunbae lightly villagery

ditto his sentiment about dya's entrance feeling good

not particularly enamoured with visors posts for reasons i can't find a way to articulate, but both dya and sunbae liking him is good enough for me to give him a pass till I can actually get into the headspace to dive into stuff properly

lantana has been... marginally ok

the way mischief handled his visor seems alright, #168 and the first paragraph of #173 being what i mainly refer to here, overall feel fine about the slot atm

had a good kneejerk reaction to insomnia, not conclusive by any means but would not kill d1

ender/taffy/rask is the group i feel the most meh about out of the bunch and am probably fine with voting in today
Eph: Lantana is Marginally ok


could be pure recency bias but I've liked most of taffy's recent posts so I think i'm good with saying i don't want to go there today
Against the Taffy wagon (could go either way, with them opposing it because they genuinely felt like it wasn't a hit, or to get credit if they thought it would go over anyway)

in my eyes they're both pretty balanced on the scale, went on ender for the sake of having wagons p much
Chose ender for the sake of having wagons

Oui oui
The oui oui is in response to
Taffy still a wolf. Lanfantana would like to come back to chat (fun fact brought by Raskol - chat is the French word for cat)

lol Sunbae (sorry I can't articulate this read better tbh. but this is my guenine reaction to your vote when I return and explain where I am about Lanfantana -since you asked - and you vote me)

Dya null
visor null
Ender light villa (for tiny reasons, but I can generally accuratly read him scum when he is, and I am not pinged yet so there is that)
Ephe prolly villa (this is a bad activity read)

insomnia prolly not ww with lanfantana.


Vote: Ephemeral

I don't really want to kill visor today; insomnia I was fine with him (by extension raskolnikov saying I was shading insomnia is not nya).
lemme order my reads
The vote on Ephemeral (first vote on that wagon)

Not to subtly defend existing wagons, however,

Can those that are here nya about their Ephe read? I have him way more sus than insomnia at the moment
Continued attempt at building a wagon on Eph.

The continued focus on Ephemeral up to this point, in respect to them being an EOD wagon, I think still looks good for Ephemeral, and similarly, still points to Insomnia (oui oui).

Mischief
05-25-2022, 00:14
I forgot to spoiler half of those, I'm half asleep.

Sunbae
05-25-2022, 00:14
i will say, when i get reads like this i feel like i am usually wrong for the right reasons where villagers have fallen into 'a trap' of posting

so its possible i am just giving mischief a hard time because he keeps running into webs of things i think are not villagery, but hes just a villager stumbling around blindly

I understand. Seeing you make the "for sunbae" post I also remembered the reverse situations where I'm sitting there saying "come on what wolf would night vig another wolf what are they even doing" so yeah, I totally get your "wrong for the right reasons" fear a little.

Zack
05-25-2022, 00:15
Official Tally as of #552

4 EnderWiggin (Mischief, Sunbae, Visor, Raskolnikov)
3 Mischief (EnderWiggin, Ephemeral, insomnia)

Day 2 ends in thunderously calm

fixed to get mischief's v0te

:00 good, :01 bad

Mischief
05-25-2022, 00:16
@Zack (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=59017): Mischief voted Ender, well he v0ted Ender to be precise :creep:

I didn't even realise.
I had just woken up when I wrote that, and was drowsy af.
My sleep has been dogshit lately.

Mischief
05-25-2022, 00:23
i feel like ive been heavily miscontrued in my posting against mischief

so on page 1 and page 2 (1-80, 80-160 post num) lantana does not comment on mischiefs initial entry nor on any of the reads on mischiefs initial entry (does townread me and i talk about it a little). mishcief reappears, also does not respond to any of lantanas post or pose any questions there. lantana reappears, does not question any of mischiefs posts.

mishcief and lantana are in the thread at hte same time, post at the same timeframe (82-83) yet have no questions for each other, no discussion of each other.both mischief and lantana go on to post that page and still do not interact with each other. they say hi once. thats it.

That makes a little more sense.
I won't deny that we didn't interact much.

Raskolnikov
05-25-2022, 00:31
No mention of lanfantana in insoms ISO .. oh well its self resolving I guess

Raskolnikov
05-25-2022, 00:32
It strikes me noone really wants Ender to be the chop in his wagon

Visor
05-25-2022, 00:36
It strikes me noone really wants Ender to be the chop in his wagon

pretty much lol

Sunbae
05-25-2022, 00:39
https://c.tenor.com/OEAjbNBRLJYAAAAC/king-of-the-hill-koth.gif


Mischief, Sunbae, Visor, Raskolnikov

Sunbae
05-25-2022, 00:40
in response to rask's point

Mischief
05-25-2022, 00:40
poe is rask taffy ender and is confused at rask town-reading him. could be w/w too


It strikes me noone really wants Ender to be the chop in his wagon

I don't think Ender has been great (not that I think I have been either), so it's somewhat a matter of POE, and mechanics.
V reads + Eph being semi-cleared by the flip>
Ender and Insom are what's left.
I still think Insom is the more likely wolf there, but it's generally unadvisable to vote a vig claim (though I have in some cases of near certainty, in turbos, since it made the scum claiming to be the JOAT think I was the cop after the person I voted flipped W, which made it easy to win)
Though I will say, I have had the thought on a few occasions, with Ender, that half his votes seem like he's just sheeping others.
That's not exactly damning, though.

Mischief
05-25-2022, 00:41
I don't think Ender has been great (not that I think I have been either), so it's somewhat a matter of POE, and mechanics.
V reads + Eph being semi-cleared by the flip>
Ender and Insom are what's left.
I still think Insom is the more likely wolf there, but it's generally unadvisable to vote a vig claim (though I have in some cases of near certainty, in turbos, since it made the scum claiming to be the JOAT think I was the cop after the person I voted flipped W, which made it easy to win)
Though I will say, I have had the thought on a few occasions, with Ender, that half his votes seem like he's just sheeping others.
That's not exactly damning, though.

A roque multiquote decided to join.

Mischief
05-25-2022, 00:42
https://c.tenor.com/OEAjbNBRLJYAAAAC/king-of-the-hill-koth.gif


Mischief, Sunbae, Visor, Raskolnikov
lol pretty much

Visor
05-25-2022, 00:43
EnderWiggin

cmon

Visor
05-25-2022, 00:52
fuck it i dont care about vig claims

Vote: insomnia

Raskolnikov
05-25-2022, 00:57
vote: insomnia

tada

Sunbae
05-25-2022, 00:58
Vote: Insomnia

Visor
05-25-2022, 00:58
if ive fucked up again for the second day in a row you better believe im gonna do it again tomorrow

Raskolnikov
05-25-2022, 00:59
if ive fucked up again for the second day in a row you better believe im gonna do it again tomorrow

we are going to turbo you tmr :curtain:

Raskolnikov
05-25-2022, 01:00
lol us if insomnia is the vig and Ender the wolf.

Zack is going to kill us all

Zack
05-25-2022, 01:01
day 2 over, donut post

Raskolnikov
05-25-2022, 01:01
"I am done hosting games for dumbies"

Zack
05-25-2022, 01:09
the lunch is a tie, RNG says:

https://i.imgur.com/AZCBBah.png

:skull: 3 Mischief (EnderWiggin, Ephemeral, insomnia)
3 insomnia (Visor, Raskolnikov, Sunbae)

1 EnderWiggin (Mischief)

Zack
05-25-2022, 01:11
Mischief was eliminated.

They were Sufjan Stevens, vanilla town!

https://i.imgur.com/ZJiAuSN.png?1

Night actions for night 2 are due in thunderously calm

Do not post until I explicitly say so.

Alive: 6/10
EnderWiggin
Ephemeral
insomnia
Raskolnikov
Sunbae
Visor

Dead:
Totally not Taffy - d1, vt
dyachei - n1, vt
Lantana - n1, mafia
Mischief - d2, vt

Zack
05-26-2022, 00:43
EnderWiggin was killed.

They were Sufjan Stevens, vanilla town!

https://i.imgur.com/FJuOTZE.png?1

Raskolnikov was killed.

They were Sufjan Stevens, vanilla town!

https://i.imgur.com/cQ5TTcq.png?1

Day 3 ends in thunderously calm

You may now post! :whip:

reminder that this game has no maj and no locked votes :bow:



Alive: 4/10
Ephemeral
insomnia
Sunbae
Visor

Dead:
Totally not Taffy - d1, vt
dyachei - n1, vt
Lantana - n1, mafia
Mischief - d2, vt
EnderWiggin - n2, vt
Raskolnikov - n2, vt

Visor
05-26-2022, 00:43
hell yeah, not vig

Visor
05-26-2022, 00:44
raskol goat btw

i was so scared he was ACTUALLY the vig lmao

Visor
05-26-2022, 00:45
cmon cmon cmon vig claim

is it actually insomni? if so this may be the worst game i have ever palyed, ever LOL

Visor
05-26-2022, 00:46
god u r so fkin good raskol

i could kiss you

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 00:48
:curtain:

Visor
05-26-2022, 00:49
i guess sunbae is the only person who would actually be here at this time

lol

i guess ill just.... wait till euroland shows up lol

if insomnia is telling the truth then i guess i think we should kill eph and then if thats wrong insomnia has to trust in my purity over sunbae

(i dont think killing both me/sunbae is a good idea)

if eph is the vig, i guess i think we kill insom then i hope eph believe me over sunbae

and if sunbae is the vig we always win because he trusts me i think despite be being the dumbest man alive

so cmonnnnn claim

we have a great chance to win this despite me being terrible lmao

Visor
05-26-2022, 00:50
:curtain:

are you the vig???????????? lmao

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 00:51
are you the vig???????????? lmao

Nah i just like the curtain emoji

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 00:52
I suppose we wait and see if it's actually Insom or Ephem

I would prefer for it to be Ephem because, well, I just want to be right

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 00:53
If it's Insomnia then well whatcha gonna do. Thought my case was pretty good but something something probabilistic game

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 00:54
should be a fun f4 while the vig freaks out and the rest of us sit here saying lmao as long as its not me idc

Visor
05-26-2022, 00:54
should be a fun f4 while the vig freaks out and the rest of us sit here saying lmao as long as its not me idc

absolutely lol

Visor
05-26-2022, 00:57
interesting that the wolf killed raskol though, given both kills n1 and n2 my guess is the vig is actually just insomnia and he was trying to look like he was faking and us pushing insomnia maybe convinced the wolf he was faking?

im not sure what i wouldve done as a wolf

maybe the wolf decided fuck it i can win f4 in which does that mean sunbae is the wolf? :scared:

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 00:59
interesting that the wolf killed raskol though, given both kills n1 and n2 my guess is the vig is actually just insomnia and he was trying to look like he was faking and us pushing insomnia maybe convinced the wolf he was faking?

im not sure what i wouldve done as a wolf

maybe the wolf decided fuck it i can win f4 in which does that mean sunbae is the wolf? :scared:

You can't make me do "if i were a wolf" posts, I refuse!

Visor
05-26-2022, 01:01
im pumped lmao

i know i shit the bed hard this game but we have a real chance to win now and im excited

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 01:07
im pumped lmao

i know i shit the bed hard this game but we have a real chance to win now and im excited

I'm having a good time. I'm pretty solid with how I've played (working on things and getting experience with them is nice), the people have been good, it's been low key and chill, I've got some pet pictures, made new (hopefully!) friends, and now we'll just see which team wins. Was a nice change of pace from my super intense last game.

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 01:09
Like, it's day 3. I have 95 total posts. I've gotten good chats, jokes, and werewolfing in. Been a really nice balance of game/fun posts.

This is how I kinda wanna play from now on (though I'll get absolutely turboed the first time I post 40 times in a day on MU lol)

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 01:12
As for game stuff, can't really do much until I know which is the vig. If it's Ephem I'll just continue voting Insomnia because I think my case was solid. If it's Insomnia I'll have to try and put some effort towards whether or not Ephem can have been bussed on day 1 or if I just got snowed a bit from the Lan interaction with Visor.

I'm really hoping it's option A. I know Ephem villa read Insomnia so just because the Vig wasn't on Insom it doesn't have to mean it was InsomVig.

want it to be one way dot gif

Visor
05-26-2022, 01:15
Like, it's day 3. I have 95 total posts. I've gotten good chats, jokes, and werewolfing in. Been a really nice balance of game/fun posts.

This is how I kinda wanna play from now on (though I'll get absolutely turboed the first time I post 40 times in a day on MU lol)

i probably wouldve had more fun in 48/24, theres so little time for interactions in 24/24 from an aus pov, so i felt a lot of pressure to solve instead of having fun and solving incidentally because i only really got one chance to interact with people before eod

might be a contributing factor to my play lmao (though not the main one - thats being big dumb)

Visor
05-26-2022, 01:21
i was so sure you were gonna ream me ala how i did in rocks fall lol, felt like a complete reverse of tha tsituation, i was so upset at myself after that eod lol, i thought mischief was voting insomnia. you made a great read on mischief too (unless you're a wolf smh)

though if insomnia IS the vig, (and you are the wolf) it accidentally big brained into increasing our win percentage by a ton

so edge of your seat stuff

Visor
05-26-2022, 01:22
on that note ,sorry for my awful tunnel mischief, i shouldve realised sooner you were just hitting notes i believe are generally wolfy and i wanted those to be right more than anything

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 01:36
i was so sure you were gonna ream me ala how i did in rocks fall lol, felt like a complete reverse of tha tsituation, i was so upset at myself after that eod lol, i thought mischief was voting insomnia. you made a great read on mischief too (unless you're a wolf smh)

though if insomnia IS the vig, (and you are the wolf) it accidentally big brained into increasing our win percentage by a ton

so edge of your seat stuff

I of all people have no place to ream anyone about anything when it comes to mafia lol. But I wanna share one thing: I recently read a post in spec chat that really resonated with me and made me rethink how I was approaching some werewolf mentality things. It's this:


I really hate that whole mindset/culture tbh

Making incorrect reads and decisions is an inherent part of the game. It isn't healthy to beat yourself up over them, in private or as a public show (because to be clear besting yourself up in thread about a bad decision made 36 hours ago IS for show). Take away where you went wrong or what you could've done differently, if applicable, absolutely, but the culture of self flagellation for mistakes around mafia sometimes is just



It made me reflect on myself about how I often beat myself up incredibly bad. And this post was absolutely correct in that, being wrong sometimes is just part of the game and it's a-ok to just take a deep breath and move on to the next day/game.

I'm referring to the part about taking it easy on yourself and not the talking about it in thread part btw. Just like, hate hearing you thought I was gonna ream you or anything. Its just a game why do you heff to be mad dot video.

Ephemeral
05-26-2022, 01:37
shouldn't be awake

but not the vig lol

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 01:38
Oh come on

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 01:40
During the overnight phase I'll start trying to figure it out then.

Games basically Insomnias call at this point. Now how does one say "hey buddy, I know I've incessantly tunneled you but uh, be sure to kill the other two people and trust me plz n thanks"? Asking for a friend

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 01:41
smh I really liked my Insomnia case as well

Can I get partial "well PRs are wolfy" credit?

Ephemeral
05-26-2022, 01:42
i'll just call it by figuring out which of visor's or sunbae's posts I hate the most when they decided to make the mechanically suboptimal play :wowee:

Ephemeral
05-26-2022, 01:43
i'd like for it to be nl just so i can continue the trend of having spot on initial calls only to let myself be dissuaded by people i trust:whip:

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 01:45
what if we triangle vote and have insomnia pick twice so we dont have to do anything and just keeep chatting


just kiddingunless? but nah or maybe? :belly:

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 01:47
i'd like for it to be nl just so i can continue the trend of having spot on initial calls only to let myself be dissuaded by people i trust:whip:

I think the only person I really dissuaded was Visor about Mischief. Unless that's not talking to me in which case yeah :whip: em good

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 01:48
I think the only person I really dissuaded was Visor about Mischief. Unless that's not talking to me in which case yeah :whip: em good

But I did start to waver at the end so I don't even think I get full marks

Ephemeral
05-26-2022, 01:49
I think the only person I really dissuaded was Visor about Mischief. Unless that's not talking to me in which case yeah :whip: em good

i mean it wasn't directly but it still counted in my heart smh

Ephemeral
05-26-2022, 01:51
what if we triangle vote and have insomnia pick twice so we dont have to do anything and just keeep chatting


just kiddingunless? but nah or maybe? :belly:

i'm all for it tbh

Ephemeral
05-26-2022, 01:53
Insomnia,

I acknowledge your claim, but I think you're lying. I will not rocks fall this one though and will play ball because we're in a position to do that and it's mechanically the abc correct move.

Who do you think is a wolf? You're voting Mischief as a placeholder, think voting to save you is a good look, and have stated you're voting there because "the options" are Ender and Mischief and you town read Ender for their play near eod yesterday. If you ignored everything and just said "I'm voting my best wolf read" who would it be and why?


Vote: Ender

I don't have a strong reason to wolf read here but I have strong reasons to villa read everyone else. I think this is most likely a villager and it's Insomnia, especially after the claim, but if Insomnia is the vig then I think it has to be here. If it is the answer, I guess the early poking votes between Lan/Ender ("wolfiest slot so far" early) and the "I might vote you at eod" but never doing so was just distancing, but it's a very weird end of day by Lan to defend Insomnia hard/not defend Ender and being so hectic on Ephem. I can't say I really understand it if so.

As for Mischief, I think the reasons to wolf read there are just kind of not good. I think it's the product of momentum in the sense that it was an early wolf read that's just kind of stuck with people. You had the early "abe simpson" thing which I think can be explained by it being a new site, the push on Visor early which I think was weird for people on the outside but makes sense if you think Mischief believes Visor has better meta on him (I also think pushes of "this person should know me better than to think I'm being wolfy" are just kinda towny in general?), and the way Mischief grumbled about it once multiple people told him that's unreasonable also makes sense. So you had a first half of day 1 where people just kinda locked in "yeah thats weird" in the back of their mind and went about their day and now that there's one wolf left it's "well maybe it's the weird thing I remember". I don't think the lack of interaction with Lan is wolfy despite multiple others thinking so. The way the day played out I think they just *have* to do something if paired together. I don't think "you didn't explain in detail why my interactions look bad" is a reasonable case (I'm a bit miffed that this was said while ignoring my effort to showcase it). I just think from my experience that this is a villager being piled on today for things that aren't wolfy because the answer is obvious and we're trying to poke around in worlds in which it's not.

by the gods only to vote him at the last second :shrug:

Ephemeral
05-26-2022, 01:56
nl was mumbling something similar about making the correct play before his fuck the claims post

lol

society

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 01:57
In my defense, I didn't believe him.

Visor
05-26-2022, 01:59
nl was mumbling something similar about making the correct play before his fuck the claims post

lol

society

yea lol

god i was just.... super not convinced that ender actually flipped wolf to the point i felt actively bad about killing him

i felt so bad that i was willing to punt the game away apparently lol

Ephemeral
05-26-2022, 02:00
strongly tempted to call sunbae the worse looking of the two on that alone simply because I feel like for sunbae the whole rocks fall thing would hold more significance and v!him would be far more hesitant to do the gamble all over again

but that's probably assuming quite a bit about how much emotional attachment sunbae still has to that decision

Visor
05-26-2022, 02:02
>me in every other game

trust the process, believe the claim

>me in this game

fuck all yall YOLO

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 02:05
strongly tempted to call sunbae the worse looking of the two on that alone simply because I feel like for sunbae the whole rocks fall thing would hold more significance and v!him would be far more hesitant to do the gamble all over again

but that's probably assuming quite a bit about how much emotional attachment sunbae still has to that decision

To be clear, when I said a rocks fall situation that is talking about counterclaiming because I think they are lying. Which I did not do despite wanting to. I have, in fact, kept that game in mind and was, in fact, hesitant to do the gamble all over again.

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 02:06
I didn't just chop lissa. I saw lissa claim angel and said no way I don't believe you I am the angel.

Visor
05-26-2022, 02:06
i think if ender was someone i wast really villa reading, or if raskol also thought he was a wolf, i wouldve just gone along with it

but i didnt really think he flipped wolf and raskol didnt either and i trusted raskols read on him too, so i was super conflicted about what to do that eod

in hindsight its all villas lmao

but i couldnt kill mischief cause sunbae was convinced (correctly) he was a villager, and i believed in his read enough, i couldnt kill insomnia because of the ivig claim and i couldnt kill ender because i didnt think he flipped wolf

idk. just felt bad all round lol

Visor
05-26-2022, 02:07
it definitely wasnt good play, and i probably shouldve articulated my distress at the situation so something couldve been done

my bad

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 02:08
i think if ender was someone i wast really villa reading, or if raskol also thought he was a wolf, i wouldve just gone along with it

but i didnt really think he flipped wolf and raskol didnt either and i trusted raskols read on him too, so i was super conflicted about what to do that eod

in hindsight its all villas lmao

but i couldnt kill mischief cause sunbae was convinced (correctly) he was a villager, and i believed in his read enough, i couldnt kill insomnia because of the ivig claim and i couldnt kill ender because i didnt think he flipped wolf

idk. just felt bad all round lol

I think at one point I posted about how Im voting ender, have no reason to do so, but I legally can't vote Insomnia and everyone else is more solidly towny

but then i learned i can in fact legally vote insomnia they can't prevent you from doing so

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 02:09
btw, im not kidding about triangle strategy

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 02:11
out til overnight, based on previous game days might not get to talk to some of you again til post game so gg was fun

Visor
05-26-2022, 02:12
out til overnight, based on previous game days might not get to talk to some of you again til post game so gg was fun

glgl, pleasure as always

Ephemeral
05-26-2022, 02:12
Vote: Sunbae

my mind is here, based on admittedly very little and barely processed info with a side dish of assumptions about sunbae's inner workings

the actual rereading should prob happen tomorrow

at the end of the day i'm just glad i'm not insom having to make a call like this lol

Visor
05-26-2022, 02:13
impo, insomnia should pick twice, as long as i am neither of those picks

:)

Ephemeral
05-26-2022, 02:14
it definitely wasnt good play, and i probably shouldve articulated my distress at the situation so something couldve been done

my bad

i'm def not free from blame for being MIA 90% of the time, esp at eods to do anything about... anything that matters really

but so it goes

Visor
05-26-2022, 02:14
Vote: Sunbae

my mind is here, based on admittedly very little and barely processed info with a side dish of assumptions about sunbae's inner workings

the actual rereading should prob happen tomorrow

at the end of the day i'm just glad i'm not insom having to make a call like this lol

lol amen

it is so freeing to not have the one making the end decision

i dont envy insom lmao

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 02:16
https://i.imgur.com/LhVKa2O.png




gosh that is a super niche meme but the one person is gonna love it

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 02:17
During the overnight phase I'll start trying to figure it out then.

Games basically Insomnias call at this point. Now how does one say "hey buddy, I know I've incessantly tunneled you but uh, be sure to kill the other two people and trust me plz n thanks"? Asking for a friend

bump, friend still asking

Ephemeral
05-26-2022, 02:18
https://i.imgur.com/LhVKa2O.png




gosh that is a super niche meme but the one person is gonna love it

now i'm curious and want an ELI5 of the meme

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 02:18
glgl, pleasure as always

It's been really fun. Glad you got to play instead of host this time.

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 02:20
Its from a game called "Triangle Strategy" and the gist is the 4 people are all allied but the three on the bottom keep trying to go in three different directions and the person on top has to make the ultimate decisions (player character)

games S tier fwiw, tactics style combat and incredible story

Ephemeral
05-26-2022, 02:29
checks steam

realizes it's not on steam and goes to google

cue burst of anger after seeing it's a Switch exclusive

insert long rant about how everything should be on PC

mfw:shame:

Ephemeral
05-26-2022, 02:32
lol amen

it is so freeing to not have the one making the end decision

i dont envy insom lmao

lets just all collectively laugh at insom for getting the short end of the stick while we meme

this is meant as an addendum to sunbae's proposal and i find absolutely no flaws with it, moral or otherwise

Visor
05-26-2022, 02:34
checks steam

realizes it's not on steam and goes to google

cue burst of anger after seeing it's a Switch exclusive

insert long rant about how everything should be on PC

mfw:shame:

:bigcry:

pc goat

Ephemeral
05-26-2022, 02:49
fuck it i dont care about vig claims

Vote: insomnia

this is a brilliant chaotic evil post for the alignment chart

it further fuels my hearts desire for nl to be the last wolf

Visor
05-26-2022, 02:50
this is a brilliant chaotic evil post for the alignment chart

it further fuels my hearts desire for nl to be the last wolf

:shame:

Ephemeral
05-26-2022, 02:59
:bigcry:

pc goat

i agree and definitely not because I simply can't afford to invest in several consoles even though I only care about 2 or 3 games for each of them

Ephemeral
05-26-2022, 03:06
alright i need to haul ass to bed

sleep schedule ruined again in an utterly unsurprising turn of events

see y'all tomorrow

Ephemeral
05-26-2022, 03:07
oh and also

Vote: Visor

:curtain:

Visor
05-26-2022, 03:11
oh and also

Vote: Visor

:curtain:

:stare:

insomnia
05-26-2022, 05:31
Im holding the hc

insomnia
05-26-2022, 05:37
Gj on selling it?s not me though, i was p confident i was gonna live

I was hoping it?s not the hard game cuz this week?s been hell, i only had 1 hour or so of night reading to go with the n1 shot, this rand was brutal

I wanted to be chillin like a villain

insomnia
05-26-2022, 05:46
I think the last wolf is always in visor / sunbae, leaning sunbae

I ahot ender to clear out the PoE and in case i died i wouldn?t have made a bad shot in sunbae / visor / eph and village would just turn on ender, altho i was kinda feeling like the wolf was there

Sunbae looks the worst for being the last vote on me. From wolves? PoV having to figure out at night if im the vigi or a vanillager faking it is hell - a vote when 2 other people are doing it is the perfect opportunity to get rid of the potential vig and if im the vanillager then you?re not gonna get that much heat. Imo wolves didn?t want to have to figure me out at night

If it?s eph, then i take no blame :curtain:

Hipefully im gonna have time today to read in depth to make a final decision, but these are just my gth thoughts

Visor
05-26-2022, 05:48
ender fine shot, i cant blame you for making it tbh

im surprised you read eph higher than me i think my interactions with lantana are super not partnery but ymmv

insomnia
05-26-2022, 05:48
I pretty much can never clear sunbae here and he’s my vote aorn - if he’s the villager i would like to have him solve with me for the day (well i can only think about things like 10-12 hours from now, busy af)

Visor
05-26-2022, 05:56
" Imo wolves didn?t want to have to figure me out at night"

i very much understand your pov on this and dont think theres much wrong with it

just as a villager who made a really bad decision, i did it because i felt really bad about the other options (obv cause i was misclearing one of eph/sbae)

and i was trapped in my own cycle of not wanting to kill out of that, but also not wanting to kill in it

and i shouldve stepped back acknowledged my issues instead of just shitting the bed

insomnia
05-26-2022, 05:56
ender fine shot, i cant blame you for making it tbh

im surprised you read eph higher than me i think my interactions with lantana are super not partnery but ymmv

Well tbh it’s more of a RETALIATORY PoE, like i said i really had not that much time - i had time to make some reads D1 and my few hours were enough to make the n1 shot, d2 was a mess, no time to re-read and from the time i claimed to T-4 eod or smth nobody said anything

Unlucky all around for me but i think i’ve done the absolute best i could have with my hand, plus i had some help from THE TEAM

Which way are you leaning? What is your sunbae read, in depth?

Visor
05-26-2022, 06:01
Well tbh it’s more of a RETALIATORY PoE, like i said i really had not that much time - i had time to make some reads D1 and my few hours were enough to make the n1 shot, d2 was a mess, no time to re-read and from the time i claimed to T-4 eod or smth nobody said anything

Unlucky all around for me but i think i’ve done the absolute best i could have with my hand, plus i had some help from THE TEAM

Which way are you leaning? What is your sunbae read, in depth?

lol i undertand the retaliatory poe dw

im currently dodging work rn, so i don't have an answer for you right now, but i will have something for you in a few hours

its really hard for me to parse how different both players are

honestly, if sunbae is a wolf its the first time in a while ive been genuinely fooled in an earlier phase and not just making a bad reach read

but i also struggle with ephs play in that its hard to make reads based on there and im really reaching

Visor
05-26-2022, 06:01
i know thats a lot of words to say I DONT KNOW LOL

but i will have an answer one way or another for you tonight

Visor
05-26-2022, 06:04
if you really really really really had to put a gun to my head


maybe id pick eph idk.

gimme some time

insomnia
05-26-2022, 06:06
bump, friend still asking

Sorry bronana it?s not even about you casing me, it?s about voting me when i feel like everyone was confused whether i was the vigi or vanillager faking it

I guess if you are a villager you are confused if im the last wolf but you don?t have to worry about it, that?s vigi?s problem and if im the last wolf i never win

You can case someone but voting them when they claim vigi, putting them in a tie??

Eph, why does visor look worse than sunbae here iyo? They have both voted, but sunbae?s vote had a chance to turn the tides when wolves have to deal with a potentially very tough question going into the night: ?do i bite the bait and shoot insomnia who?s a misvote opportunity??

If i flip vanillager, they take almost no heat cuz they were correct in thinking i wasn?t vig and everyone thought it was me

If i flip vigi, the wolf has the F3 target lined up in visor / sunbae, they aren?t alone making the pro-wolf suboptimal play

insomnia
05-26-2022, 06:20
Im hopeful i will have like 4 hours to stay in thread later, maybe 3 more likely

In the meantime you really have to talk it out, yesterday was a content drought (at least when i was viewing the thread)

I think if you are a villager it’s important to realize your solve still matters. I am a big believer in sheeping the villa that might take the fall in f4

And idk how good it is for us that I make the decision and you all just wait for it - if i have time to read, not having to lead and watching you solve rn + me back reading is gonna get me closer to a confident decision. But it we don’t get it right today, it’s very important the villager taking the fall makes a case both for a wolf read and town read.

To put it all into perspective, I am Brad Pitt in Moneyball, I want my players to be on base scene. Old scout full of wisdom says “Seriously guys, I think we have to remember: this is the man. He answers to no one except ownership…and God…and he doesn’t have to answer to us. We make suggestions, he makes decisions”

I am Brad Pitt, ain’t nothing personal, I was picked to be Brad Pitt, if you guys would rand vigi you’d be Brad Pitt.

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 06:22
I pretty much can never clear sunbae here and he’s my vote aorn - if he’s the villager i would like to have him solve with me for the day (well i can only think about things like 10-12 hours from now, busy af)

I think I can be cleared, I just don't think you can clear me. I don't mean that as a negative, slight, or anything. I think it just requires more experience with me than you have and more knowledge of previous games that you weren't a part of. It's on me. I pushed you for two straight days and just didn't believe you. It happens, don't sweat it. At this point I think it's pretty clear that I am going to die, that I have realized that I am going to die ("asking for a friend"), and I think talking about my alignment is a waste of our time. I'm going to spend some time this night phase figuring out which of Ephem/Visor I think it is, make my vote, and try to lay out exactly why I think it's them.

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 06:31
if you really really really really had to put a gun to my head


maybe id pick eph idk.

gimme some time

It's pretty tough for me, right? I now know that the answer is in how Lan treated you and Ephem. Clearly they had no issues pushing a teammate a bit - shouldn't be surprised given how they seemed like they were used to high activity games - but I have to decide is it the one Villa Read and then Wolf Read based on Katze-said meta or if it's the one pushed near eod to go over.

If it's Ephem I have to answer the question "If the other wagons are Insomnia v, Ender v, and Taffy v, why did Lan start bussing?". That's the key for me and if I can solve that problem I'll feel much better about it. If I can't solve that question then I'll have to give a resigned "dammit visor".

I'll also probably try and view the game through both lenses and see what the wolf team was doing on day 1 in each case.

insomnia
05-26-2022, 06:31
It was my impression that Lantana never really confidently called out anyone except for Visor but it was for the weird meta thing.

Now I wonder if they?ve manufactured that push to make visor look good - rationale being they shy?d away from pushing many villas until EoD, so the person they push with more #heat is more likely to be their partner cuz they wanna clear them and aren?t scared if they get sus?d for it obviously+ it was early af which gives them plenty time to change their mind

Visor
05-26-2022, 06:32
It was my impression that Lantana never really confidently called out anyone except for Visor but it was for the weird meta thing.

Now I wonder if they?ve manufactured that push to make visor look good - rationale being they shy?d away from pushing many villas until EoD, so the person they push with more #heat is more likely to be their partner cuz they wanna clear them and aren?t scared if they get sus?d for it obviously+ it was early af which gives them plenty time to change their mind

they also called me socially awkward lmao

Visor
05-26-2022, 06:36
It was my impression that Lantana never really confidently called out anyone except for Visor but it was for the weird meta thing.

Now I wonder if they?ve manufactured that push to make visor look good - rationale being they shy?d away from pushing many villas until EoD, so the person they push with more #heat is more likely to be their partner cuz they wanna clear them and aren?t scared if they get sus?d for it obviously+ it was early af which gives them plenty time to change their mind

if you fall into this trap of thinking im gonna actually be disappointed lmao

fmpov i think we are clearly not partnered, i get your pov tho i guess

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 06:40
The game coming down to whether or not I can correctly read into wolf spew of someone I've never played with before :fortune:

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 06:41
So Visor did a sudden mood switch that pinged me I hope I can explain it properly (all quotes spoilered for length). At the start they don?t interact with the off-topic posting at all and seem intent to steer the conversation towards proper mafia play instead of shitposting:





This unsollicited read creeped me out btw, I really don?t think anyone should be able to tell the difference between a yolo villager or someone really excited to have randed wolf (and posting empty content). It felt like either a pocketing attempt or bait, and since it was 3am at that point I didn?t feel like figuring out which. I also don?t like how they later explained it both as a lazy throwaway read and as an attempt to get me posting more on-topic.



Then later Sunbae shows up (my read on Sunbae btw is ?probably town, because they described their wolf play as nefarious and slimy and none of their posts feel that way?). Sunbae explicitly says to Insomnia that they?re down to get the ball rolling on actual play, then starts a conversation about DnD with Ender, which Visor decides to hijack (and note that they still ignore Ender completely)



So... is Visor just socially awkward around new people and Sunbae the only one here they feel comfortable talking to? Are the rest of us not good enough for chit-chat? Did Ender ask to take over the conversation in wolf chat because he?s scared Sunbae will find him out?

(there were posts about actual game-related stuff inbetween the conversation that I didn?t copy, I wanted to show the difference between their posting before and after)


I also thought their response to Lantana?s vote was overly defensive. For someone who professes to be aware of how they are perceived and to purposely work towards a certain perception, that seems like an odd choice.



And then there were some very weird mindmelds that gave me pause.



This is echoing my own reasoning for my initial vote.



Yes this is exactly what I meant, so if you?re town it?s appreciated.



I have never met anyone else before who felt the same way I do about voting people who aren?t present D1. It?s something that?s been discussed repeatedly on Giantitp and definitely something Ender knows.



Oh dear.
Tl,dr: I?m having a tinfoil w/w read on Visor and Ender and I?m going to hate being wrong.

Vote: Visor


Taffy called you socially awkward, not Lan

Visor
05-26-2022, 06:42
oh right thats true

i got called word salady and whatever the other thing they said from lanata

taking it from all sides this game :shame:

insomnia
05-26-2022, 06:45
Lol fmpov i was never partnered with lantana either :laugh4:

Btw don’t worry about defending yourselves, i just lay out thoughts in the thread i have for now, i still have to re-read, im just picking things accessible to think about atm with the time i have and that seem entertaining to think about, hope that makes sense

I am afraid i might actually wallpost when im in the re-reading sesh, normals turn me into something real ugly

I would kindly ask everyone to not defend themselves and instead solve wherever possible and I will also ask that you have faith everything will turn out fine by the end even if we miss today (the point of having this belief is that it will make you less likely to defend yourself perhaps) not the end of the world if we yeet wrong and if I shoot wrong that’s on me

You are not to blame if you die today, it’s me if anything. Best you can do is to feed as much info as possible so that me making the shot won’t have to be hard. If you want to towncase yourself I guess you can, but you have to think that we only have 24 hours to figure it out and if you spend a lot of it defending yourself and you die anyway, the common good gets nothing

I know it’s frustrating to get yeeted if you are villa in this scenario, but if it’s not preventable, the best thing you can do is to help the vig see the clearer view <3

I’ll be back, you’ll know when you see giant wallposts

insomnia
05-26-2022, 06:47
The game coming down to whether or not I can correctly read into wolf spew of someone I've never played with before :fortune:

Ya i kinda regret making that shot now lmao, i guess it’s true what they say, early wolf kills are tougher on the village

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 06:47
Here are the Visor/Lan interactions day 1 in an easy to parse spoiler (its for my purposes, ignore if you wnat)


Do you think Visor was being serious and is being serious or not serious more likely to indicate alignment one way or another?


Visorslash villager I believe. Justification to come later if I feel the same - riding the vibe for now.


Actually on re-read I retract my v read on visor. I am told he has word salad reads more often as a villager and makes his reads more polished as a wolf, and post 59 looked word salad-y (thereby town meta). If this meta is wrong, blame Katze. That aside though.

His latest string of posting feels like a diplomatic wolf and more closely resembles someone who?s acutely aware of everything they?re posting and the optics. I think this holds true even with meta aside.

Vote visor


I am aware of everything I post? I don't make idle posts in ww games, even posts that seem lazy and noncontributive are done with an eye towards how I think I will be perceived, how I want to be perceived and how I need to be perceived.

Any villager worth their salt should be consider their posts.

Fascinating that katze gave meta on me, not sure they've really seen me as a wolf . Are you a foler?


I don't see an issue with being diplomatic in 24 hours phases either, I didn't want to get into a brawl with insomnia over a misunderstanding of a post, especially because in a few hours I'll be afk till near EOD.

Whether his read on me was something he actually believed or something he thought he could push until I closed it down is something I remain uncertain of

(That all said, lol using someone else's meta interpretation to read me instead of just reading my posts)


vote: mischief

Is where I'm thinking rn

Sunbae seems fine for right now, realistically too early to make a confident v read on him with few posts but he has ticked the right boxes for now

I like Lantana trying to use meta from someone not in the game as an earnest attempt to get me killed, might be a bad read here but I'm taking a D1 gander that they are a villa

Ender had a bit of a wonky start but I also don't think he's tried to look villagery, so I'm also putting a D1 gander there

Taffy, well I'm probably not gonna kill a new player D1, needs to re enter for me to make a read any direction

Insomnia - not even info really to make a read on

Mischief - a slight thing, but the wording of some of his posts feel a little stilted, and his reads without much commenting on the posts in between nor posing many questions is a slight negative sign

So from the posters so far, that's where I'm leaning, but I'm loathe to make a wolf read with 3 zero posters so far. I will be voting one of them if we have 2 or more at EOD, fwiw

As I write this, I'm reminded of ender constantly referring to meta to clear bluekang when we wolfed together, so it's interesting to see him try to clear me on meta (though seems to have less confidence than he did in that game and that's a good sign I think)


vote: ephemeral

I really gotta think about that taffy read some more

Part of me just wants to village read it because it's not a super good case/weird targets but I do have a weal spot for that stuff

Raskol can you talk about Lantana a bit for me?


Not FOL.

And naturally. It was more that I saw the word salady read in 59 and the change to not that.
So it?s not quite accurate for it to be a ?as a villager you don?t consider your posts? read at all actually.


Looking through the 100 or so posts I?ve missed now


Yes my posting style can change

I don't think this is something that is uncommon for ww players. I think anyone who has played with me prior in games would agree with that


Lantana if you want your votes to count you need to add the colon


Ender can you state your earlier reasons on me (again, if it was done originally...)?

OK visor, will note for next time.

Whoever is interested - just making sure there is no iso button? can't find one. won't be a problem but worth asking.


read this:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/152962-Guide-for-players-coming-from-offsite

tells you how

Visor
05-26-2022, 06:48
fair lmao

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 06:48
So now I'm going to spend the next 4 hours showing you all why I am not a wolf

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 06:49
ok im just being a little shit lol, its totally fine insomnia

Visor
05-26-2022, 06:49
"Yes my posting style can change

I don't think this is something that is uncommon for ww players. I think anyone who has played with me prior in games would agree with that"

villagery snark imo :curtain:

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 06:52
Visor,

Not to like, get super in the weeds about this cause it's small on the grand scale of things, but off the top of your head if you were a wolf would you feel obligated to v read me quickly? No long explanation needed, just a quick yes/no/context-dependent

Visor
05-26-2022, 06:54
Visor,

Not to like, get super in the weeds about this cause it's small on the grand scale of things, but off the top of your head if you were a wolf would you feel obligated to v read me quickly? No long explanation needed, just a quick yes/no/context-dependent

no, not at all why?

thats not saying i wouldn't do it, but i definitely don't think i would feel any obligation towards doing so

insomnia
05-26-2022, 06:54
You can be mad with me, i got big heart and im STOIC

I can take it, if it helps you SOLVE after :p

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 06:55
You can be mad with me, i got big heart and im STOIC

I can take it, if it helps you SOLVE after :p

it was a shitpost dont mind me

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 06:56
no, not at all why?

thats not saying i wouldn't do it, but i definitely don't think i would feel any obligation towards doing so

cool, cool ty

just rereading through and poking at stuff, no biggie

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 07:04
just quickly went through stuff, found sunbae lightly villagery

ditto his sentiment about dya's entrance feeling good

not particularly enamoured with visors posts for reasons i can't find a way to articulate, but both dya and sunbae liking him is good enough for me to give him a pass till I can actually get into the headspace to dive into stuff properly

lantana has been... marginally ok

the way mischief handled his visor seems alright, #168 and the first paragraph of #173 being what i mainly refer to here, overall feel fine about the slot atm

had a good kneejerk reaction to insomnia, not conclusive by any means but would not kill d1

ender/taffy/rask is the group i feel the most meh about out of the bunch and am probably fine with voting in today


Not to subtly defend existing wagons, however,

Can those that are here nya about their Ephe read? I have him way more sus than insomnia at the moment


Sunbae
Taffy
Mischief
Dyachei
Visorslash
Raskolnikov
Enderwiggin
Ephemeral

Dyachei is probably true null which means I need to find more town reads and/or dyachei needs to be townier

I also had insomnia has my third town but I didn't wanna have him there if he's gonna flip wolf in 10 minutes nya
I def prefer Ephemeral, I can go check his posts again to confirm this (or potentially feel differently :bow:)


poe is rask taffy ender and is confused at rask town-reading him. could be w/w too




and the ephem/lan interactions

Visor
05-26-2022, 07:08
While you're being a doll, can you get the Lantana sunbae interactions out too :p

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 07:12
just quickly went through stuff, found sunbae lightly villagery

ditto his sentiment about dya's entrance feeling good

not particularly enamoured with visors posts for reasons i can't find a way to articulate, but both dya and sunbae liking him is good enough for me to give him a pass till I can actually get into the headspace to dive into stuff properly

lantana has been... marginally ok

the way mischief handled his visor seems alright, #168 and the first paragraph of #173 being what i mainly refer to here, overall feel fine about the slot atm

had a good kneejerk reaction to insomnia, not conclusive by any means but would not kill d1

ender/taffy/rask is the group i feel the most meh about out of the bunch and am probably fine with voting in today


Not to subtly defend existing wagons, however,

Can those that are here nya about their Ephe read? I have him way more sus than insomnia at the moment


Sunbae
Taffy
Mischief
Dyachei
Visorslash
Raskolnikov
Enderwiggin
Ephemeral

Dyachei is probably true null which means I need to find more town reads and/or dyachei needs to be townier

I also had insomnia has my third town but I didn't wanna have him there if he's gonna flip wolf in 10 minutes nya
I def prefer Ephemeral, I can go check his posts again to confirm this (or potentially feel differently :bow:)


poe is rask taffy ender and is confused at rask town-reading him. could be w/w too

ignore the top, its a quote dumb cause the MQ is being wonky


Visor v


I read his posts and he's not in his wolf meta

Idk, I can't really explain it. He's taking the game as it comes and not forcing reads imo. it's based on gut feels to a degree

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 07:12
While you're being a doll, can you get the Lantana sunbae interactions out too :p

Sure

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 07:13
we are going to turbo you tmr :curtain:

Nk's seem pretty uneven on you lmao

Visor
05-26-2022, 07:17
Nk's seem pretty uneven on you lmao

Er I am pretty sure he was joking lol (esp with curtain)

Fairly sure he townread me all game same with dya and even blade

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 07:24
Sooooo is it always quiet on d1 here?

let's play ww!


Yeah, org emotes are GOAT. As for quiet, if you're used to the mu speeds this one will be a lot slower. I think I averaged about 75-80 posts last game and died day 3 but was in the top quarter of posters when I died. Game before that here I think I died in the 50s. Usually a much more laid back and methodical type of thread early instead of a spam fest (I'm also going to be taking it into account the feedback that I posted a bit too much in a row last game and will be trying to keep things in fewer posts, as well as some other stuff but I won't bore anyone about the finer details of my adjustments). Got a bit more active in the back half of the game but by then it's a lot fewer people so it wasn't a big difference in daily posts.

If you'd like to get the ball rolling I'm all ears. I don't have anything very interesting on my end. A slight, slight frown towards Ender for acting like/thinking that Visor's response to you + vote on Ender were related but it's so small on the grand scale of things that I doubt it'll be a relevant factor by end of day. Kinda think your eagerness to get going is a towny mindset when coupled with your initial pranking/bubbly spurt but shrug. Don't really understand the visor yolo on taffy but maybe I just had to be there. Don't think Mischief saying he has to eat is abe simpsoning?


checks out, I?m fine with a lower volume game personally and tend to post way too much now. This will be a good lesson regardless of outcome.

Also I think a bubbly = towny description is fine for me at the moment, but I can get quite feisty just for full disclosure. As in? don?t just wolf read me if I am not a single wave bubbly nya


This seems towny. Surface level towny.

On second thoughts I do think a wolf is less likely to express the thought in general and just post lots for the sweet town cred.

So, cool Sunbae.


Getting some nice town reads for the situation :2thumbsup:


Current thoughts after catching up:

I'm trying to be a little more proactive this time around (my last game on MU was pretty much a non-factor and even if my reads were fine you could have replaced me with OPEN SLOT and nothing much would have changed).

Ender, Rask: I'd like to talk about the Lantana wolf reads because I've got a townread there. I thought the overnight posting once I went to sleep was fine so it's not just the bubbly/eager thing. The way they brushed off my villa read as a ?won't always be bubbly but it's fine? instead of just taking and moving on felt right? If they are a wolf and trying to pocket me (which the whole villa read of me would be) I don't know why they'd be like that. Switching Visor from townread to wolf read citing Katze-given meta was understandable if that's what you've been told. The timing of the villa read and the shift make sense under those parameters. I did circle back thinking ?oh maybe it shifted cause Visor started poking there and it's nefarious? but the change happened while Visor was talking to Insomnia about Taffy so I don't think there's anything to that? My current take is it's someone used to faster paced games and just bouncing around trying to find * something * to chat about.


Lantana: I don't think the meta you have on Visor is uh, accurate? I've always found him to be pretty self-aware regardless of alignment and I think his discussion of trying to just straighten out a misunderstanding is perfectly reasonable. I have a slight townread there for the ?whether his read on me was something he actually believed or something he thought he could push until I closed it down is something I remain uncertain of? comment about Insomnia after the misunderstanding because I think it'd be a pretty easy sport for wolf!visor to either buddy up to or lightly shade Insomnia and picking neither just doesn't seem to have an agenda to me. With the knowledge that multiple people have told you the meta read there isn't how they would do it, where's your head at on the rest of their posting?

Ender: It being a snarky response clears that up for me, ty

Regarding Mischief: I think the explanation of wanting to just post immediately to show you'll be around on a new site makes sense. I have a slight town read there for not really forcing anything and openly saying they can't really determine much else at this point in the game. My view of villager!Mischief is one that is pretty careful about finding what reads/votes they have and not pressing the matter.

I got no real thoughts about Insomnia's stint, will wait to see what Taffy says upon return before I try to formulate anything there, and want to interact with Rask/Ender more before landing on anything there as well.


Can you talk a bit about Insomnia?


I'm still living off my take last night where he skipped RVS and got into some pretty immediate shading, I think that's more typically villagery than not, though i'll have to see how I feel about placing him against others (momentarily)


Alrighty.


Sunbae
Taffy
Mischief
Dyachei
Visorslash
Raskolnikov
Enderwiggin
Ephemeral

Dyachei is probably true null which means I need to find more town reads and/or dyachei needs to be townier

I also had insomnia has my third town but I didn't wanna have him there if he's gonna flip wolf in 10 minutes nya
I def prefer Ephemeral, I can go check his posts again to confirm this (or potentially feel differently :bow:)


is lantana town?


I think so



thats me/lan or everytime i talk about lan to someone else

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 07:27
Er I am pretty sure he was joking lol (esp with curtain)

Fairly sure he townread me all game same with dya and even blade

gotcha

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 07:31
Basically where I'm at right now is that based on interactions with the dead wolf, night kill analysis (with the curtain joke explained), my feelings during our numerous interactions, and my general feelings on "who is trying to solve the game" purposes I feel like Visor is a villager but I have to come up with an answer of "what were the wolves doing at eod1 if there are v/v/v wagons and Lan starts going at Ephem".

I am going to read that end of day under the lens of Lan/Ephem being the wolf team and will try to see if I can understand a scenario in which it makes sense. If I can, I'm going to vote Ephemeral and be done with it. If I cannot, I am going to grumble and sleep on it hoping my tomorrow brain has it click better.

Visor
05-26-2022, 07:32
im gonna eat dinner, relax for a bit, then spend 1 hr to 1.5 hours on this and thats gonna be it till eod (except for maybe minor comments).

ill be 'around' for the next 6 hours or so

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 08:08
At :15 the wagons are 3 ender, 3 insomnia, 1 mischief, 1 raskol.

Lan comes in with this vote:



Vote: Ephemeral

I don't really want to kill visor today; insomnia I was fine with him (by extension raskolnikov saying I was shading insomnia is not nya).
lemme order my reads

No other posts about Ephem are made until :40 when Lantana makes this post ?not subtly defending wagons? and asking about Ephem. The wagons are 3 Ender, 3 insomnia, 1 mischief, 1 ephemeral. The earlier Raskol vote was Lan so they just moved:


Not to subtly defend existing wagons, however,

Can those that are here nya about their Ephe read? I have him way more sus than insomnia at the moment

Insomnia takes a 4/3/1 lead over Ender and Ephem with 10 minutes to go. Lan makes this post talking about Insomnia already flipping:


Sunbae
Taffy
Mischief
Dyachei
Visorslash
Raskolnikov
Enderwiggin
Ephemeral

Dyachei is probably true null which means I need to find more town reads and/or dyachei needs to be townier

I also had insomnia has my third town but I didn't wanna have him there if he's gonna flip wolf in 10 minutes nya
I def prefer Ephemeral, I can go check his posts again to confirm this (or potentially feel differently :bow:)

With 7 minutes to go Ender votes Ephem and Lantana immediately replies they may vote Ender at eod:


Vote: Ephemeral

Watch me pull a flash wagon out of my hat.


I may vote you at EOD

5 minutes to go Lan says check this wagon if people will actually listen to me:


Alright better check this wagon again if people will actually listen to me lol


3 minutes to go Lan starts tying Ephemeral to Rask as w/w


poe is rask taffy ender and is confused at rask town-reading him. could be w/w too



No more posts are made by Lan about Ephem and instead are spent talking to dya about null reads.





Under a lens of ?what is going on if they are w/w? I think I have a solution: The wagons are all villagers and Lan starts some small distancing. They don't expect anyone to listen to them (hence the ?if people are actually going to listen to me? post later). They've basically flipped Insomnia in their head already so they think this eod is in the clear. When the Ephem wagon gets a bit of steam they immediately shade the person voting Ephem and then start tying Ephem W to Rask W in a ?wait not, don't? and ?well I'll chain these together if it goes bad? way. Then they spend the rest of eod talking to Dya about null reads because they don't want to get more people on Ephem but doesn't want to defend either. If they are willing to want to look right for ?defending wagons? that are going to flip villa it's reasonable they would continue that action and want to look right for voting Ephem while we chopped villagers.


I'm going to Vote: ephemeral


Not being able to figure out why Lan pushed Ephem as wolves was the reason for me to defend Ephem throughout yesterday but I now can see a plausible scenario where it makes sense. Once I have that I can give more weight to the classically villagery things I've been seeing from Visor throughout the game. I've liked his interactions with the wolf way more, I've thought his entire process on Mischief wasn't trying to force a mischop and was genuinely listening and weighing my words vs his reads there, the Nks viewed him as towny, and frankly if I've interacted with him this much and not gotten any bad vibes it's probably just because he's a villager. The alternative is that I got pocketed and I don't want to live in that world so I won't.

Visor
05-26-2022, 08:45
here's where i'm at in a nutshell.

I like sunbaes interactions with lantana better. They don't feel like they are on the same wavelength. It feels like sunbaes responses are not matching up perfectly, and they don't seem particularly enthusiastic about doing anything about lantana. They make a village read on them, it carries on through the day. It's a lightish villa read, and sunbae specifically does not have them in the 4 man group that he thinks are much stronger villagers. If sunbae was a wolf and his intention was to townread his partner, i think I would see a greater effort from him to do so. ephemerals interactions with lantana are nonexistent basically, so not much to judge on there. The epehemeral read makes zero sense, has no backing and just comes out of nowhere in a spot where multiple villagers are dying.

you have to ask yourself what is the point of the push at that point in time? there are two options:

a) distancing
b) to kill another villager

in the a) scenario, because this is a vig game, and the wagons were locked up, they decide to engage in a bit distancing to set up their partner in case they are vigged randomly, or need to look good later, its basically a potential get out of jail free card you can pick up later if things go wrong for either of you.
b) theoretically yes, this is viable. It is also pointless. they ALREADY wolfread enderwiggin for most of the day. they don't need to switch. maybe they wanted to look like they cared so they spiced up the eod.

it is possible they just thought ephemeral was an easy push so they decided to push the wagon. but it is weird how they handled it, theres no real build up to it, theres no i wolfread eph for this, its just out of the blue



I note a POE of Rasko Ender and Taffy written in your reads list but no comments on Taffy's bigger post that immediately followed.
(that is wolfy!)

Why no comments? I found it a touch towny on a surface level

is the only background to it.


that said, lantana hard townreading sunbae and sunbae townreading lantana does hurt my soul a little.

so the question is, do i think its a bus or a push? it doesn't make a lot of sense as a real bus, and they don't seem comfortable on the wagon. but it also doesnt really make sense as a random villager kill because the villager they already wanted to kill was top wagon. so i leans towards it looking like distancing in a situation where they thought they could get away with it.

the next question is: the nightkills. dya and raskol.

dya was probably just killed because of lantana read + good player. they didnt really mention sunbae or ephemeral.

why was raskol killed? because he claimed vig? because the wolf didn't believe insomnia? this kinda points towards sunbae wrt not believing insomnia, though if i was a wolf in sunbaes shoes and i was pushing against insomnia, i might be tempted to kill insomnia because it wouldnt make sense from my pov in thread and ppl may village read it.

raskol expresses some suspiscion towards eph d2, and some tinfoil towards sunbae

i think i lean towards the wolf not believing insomnia - which means they killed raskol.

which might lean towards sunbae as a wolf.

as an overall point i think sunbae has been more villagery in thread than ephemeral. there are some sunbae posts that set the sirens going off (the i townread lantana post eod1, their relentless push of insomnia (though i can hardly blame him)).

basically:

raskol kill points to sunbae
overall posting points to eph
eod1 is.... kinda half points to eph

its a tough call, theres not a huge amount to read eph on this game. i think sunbae has been villagerier and if he is the wolf here, well, well done, you can stop claiming i can read you well :P

im not sold on my thoughts here, i can def see lantana just pushing another villager because they thought itd look good/could get away with it, but their weird hangups around eph actually dying skeeved me out as i mentioned yday

anyway ymmv, thats what im thinking rn. i need to reread over d2 a bit more.

i am hoping that either way, you dont shoot me cause i think i have by far the best interactions and i think ive done an okay job of solving evne if my results have not been great lol :P

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 08:46
nobody wolfread dya iirc
if dya is correct, wolves are just ender/lantana

ender/mischief/insom are my poe

re mischief and lantana interaction sunbae: it didn't feel to me like there was any real attempt by lantana or mischief to engage with each other. michief had the entry that taffy and i commented on but lantana didnt, (even though lantana saw the posts because they commented on me after that iirc), and the question lantana asked mischief is something that could easily be w/w in that its a very simple fake interaction thingo

the light townread stuff but also never interacting seems weird to me on both ends


just from memory but "Mischief what's your Rasko read summarized in one sentence now?"

is their only interaction? just weird to me


Headspace with the rest of the game (I aint got the energy after that to go into super detail right now):


Tier 1

Ephemeral: Was attempted to be killed by Lan during the end of eod. Almost certainly a villager.

Rask: Called out Lan early, posted well, Lan went hard at them throughout the day: Voted them as the first real wagon that developed during mid day, started using their push on rask flipping wolf to make reads off of other players in a way that would not benefit wolves. Like, it wasn't trying to chain rask wolf into killing villagers that could be partnered with Rask. It was trying to clear people based off Rask flip. Dya also said very different from their w/w game if you're into meta reads. Almost certainly a villager.


Tier 2

Visor: I don't think the way Lan shifted on their read on Visor from V to W citing KATZE META and being diplomatic instead of word salad is w/w. I also don't think, if manufactured, that is the way Visor responds. Nice, laid back, relaxed ?I am aware of everything I post?, ?yes my posting style can change?, and ?I don't see an issue with being diplomatic?. There's no tension nor something for him to point back to for credit (and in that interaction I think it'd certainly be him going for the look good credit and not the other way around). I recognize that this is, well, ironic given I'm giving him credit for it. But I hope that distinction makes sense. Very likely a villager.

Mischief: I think the way Mischief played is right inside town meta. The deference to me/dya on a read of Visor felt really pure, sure, but I'm talking more of the mild stubborness about working via POE in a small game like this. Find villa reads, box out the rest, vote your best bet in there. I liked their backing off of Visor and Rask in that way after those interactions. Knowing that Lan is a wolf, the way they said they'll back off of Rask for now but will revisit if Ender is a wolf is a really good look I think. That's agendaless, no way for ender to flip wolf in a wolf!mischief world now. Very likely a villager.


Tier 3

Ender: If it's not insomnia I think it has to be here. I wish I had some like, big things to point towards but I don't. It's pure poe at this point but I don't think it's reasonable to have big things for EnderWolf anyways. This is a shitty blurb on him, I know. I'm tired. I'm hoping it doesn't matter. If it does I'll do my due diligence.


Insomnia: wrote about this already, think its the wolf


Would it be helpful for us to talk about Mischief more? I really don't think that's the answer (and I think the lack of any interaction between them and the wolf is a town indicative thing rather than a wolf one).


Talk about why it seems more town indicative for you if you could

And ya it'd help me.


Because there's just ... nothing despite the way a Mischief/Lan wolf team would absolutely require something with how day 1 played out. Mischief and Lan were both rather vocal points of the thread a different parts of the day and received a decent amount of pressure. Rask and Dya went at Lan. Lan went at you and Ephemeral. Mischief went after Rask and you. You, Rask, and Taffy went at Mischief. If that's the wolf team how can they never defend each other or start to press each other? They are never, ever sweeping here with that day 1 pressure on both in a vig game and need to do * something *. I can see arguments if they started defending each other: they were under so much pressure they needed to try and sway consensus away. I can see arguments if they had pointed discussions with each other: they needed to look good once one flipped. They have nothing. At no point did they try to help, did they try to distance, did they have any foresight into future days. If that's the team, what are they doing?



quote dump part 1 of me/visor interaction about mischief (more to come and discussion on it, just seems like theres a max # of quotes possible)

Visor
05-26-2022, 08:49
theres a world where sunbae/lantana just decided to townread each other and just keep going

depends on the kind of person lantana is. i tried to find new zealand players on mu and gave up lmao

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 08:50
as an aside, im just not feeeeeeling solving from mischief in terms of investigative stuff

like he defends himself from me, but hes not exploring where he wants to kill etc


My experience with Mischief is that he's a lot more reserved on where to kill as a villager and finds spots he likes, goes in on them, and if they dont pan out takes a while to reorient himself. As a wolf he flings votes around a fair bit more with little rhyme or reason. I understand what you're saying and why you're concerned but I'm going to tell you the same thing I told him when he was concerned about you: I think you're misguided here for understandable reasons.

I'm ... trying to do better about that thing I do where I feel good about something and then kinda just put it out into the thread instead of working hard to help others see it too. I'm also thinking that - while I'm hoping this is the easy world and I nabbed a really good case and solved the game - there is a possibility that we live in a hard world (like Rask currently doesn't think it's either of my bottom 2) and if we do *that* is the kill the wolves absolutely need and I'm going to try and vocalize my belief that it's not it and prevent it.


I definitely agree on the zero consideration from either side. Do you think I'm just like, overestimating the amount of foresight wolves should be having here?


I think it's possible that the wolves aren't planning with foresight and intend to just play by ear, which means doing whatever to survive today, hope you're alive tomorrow.

Some wolves do act with foresight and it's possible here, I'm just wary of banking on it


Official Tally as of #519

4 Mischief (Visor, EnderWiggin, Ephemeral, insomnia)
3 insomnia (Mischief, Sunbae, Raskolnikov)

Day 2 ends in thunderously calm




part 2

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 08:55
Visor,

I think this is a moon in spec game situation


I am trying to be more persuasive in games. I think I've had a lot of games recently where I was doing a pretty decent job (not great, but not bad) but I just kind of *exist* and it doesn't amount to much. In this game I've tried to lay out a concise, easy to follow case on who I think the wolf is (i know, they claimed vig and now I'm begrudgingly voting Ender because thats what I'm supposed to do) as well as a defense on a villager read with game related, personal meta, overall werewolf theory, and perceived flawed logic of pushes there as reasons. I am very uncomfortable in the "look at me!" role (I got a bit happy for myself last postgame cause like, the wolves were elite and I was able to sift through it a decent amount but that was an outlier in back patting lol) but this is my best effort at it.

At this point I am comforted knowing that if I am correct, I think the game is won. I won't jump up and down anymore. I will say my piece and let others roll in and do their thing. If I am incorrect, I won't be the one to derail it further.


vote: ender


My options are: blade, who is actively shitposting

Mischief, who sunbae has moved heaven and earth to defend

Ephemeral: who got pushed a but by Lan but hasn't really been super villagery

Idkmybffjill


The only reason I'm not voting mischief is because of sunbae. I still don't think he's done any solving especially today and focused entirely on defending himself, but if sunbae believes it that strongly and I think sunbae is probably a villager I'm just going to throw up my hands and say fine, have it your way and if he's right good, if he's wrong rip and if he's a wolf trying to keep a ml alive for endgame I guess I'll make that decision when the time comes


Official Tally as of #538

3 EnderWiggin (Sunbae, Visor, Raskolnikov)
3 Mischief (EnderWiggin, Ephemeral, insomnia)

1 insomnia (Mischief)

Day 2 ends in thunderously calm




and part 3.

Reading through this I don't think Visor really is opportunistically pushing this. I think the concerns he has are valid, I think he is interacting in good faith with me, and I think - most importantly - the way he credits me with pushing away from Mischief despite Mischief both being a top wagon and one that the wolves desperately need in that game state is just so weird for a wolf to do. Like, you need to break that pair up as a wolf with the way I've been defending. But he doesn't start trying to push it on me more than is reasonable and he doesn't try to start shifting it towards suspecting me instead. That entire interaction just reads like an honest to goodness pow wow of two people just trying to sort through things.

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 09:00
I don't think Insomnia not dying is a factor I'm paying attention to fwiw. I think there's enough information in the thread via interactions/casing/discussion to not worry about leveling via nk stuff.

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 09:09
Plus like, I don't think we need to do the whole discussion on my alignment thing. It has been said, repeated, and locked in that I am never, ever living through two kills when Insomnia has one and I've tunneled him for every game day in existence. I've acknowledged it and accept it. I have spent a few hours this evening going through and landing on what I think the answer is, explaining it in detail with quotes, and feel comfortable with it. If I'm right, cool. If I'm wrong, darn.

I am, of course, obligated to give some half hearted "Insomnia, if Ephem isn't right then idk just read my posts and ask yourself if I believe what I say or if I'm spewing nonsense" line at some point but that's just something we're all supposed to say here.

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 09:14
I'm going to get some sleep. Idk how much more game content I'll post tomorrow cause like, I've pretty much said all I feel like saying. Have explained who I think is the wolf, why, how it went down as that pair in my estimation, who i think is the villager and why. The only thing left is just WIFOM "if i were a wolf id be doing xyz not abc" self meta nonsense and I'm pretty much done with that stuff. We've talked about it before and it bores me at this point.

If you have any particular hiccups with how I've operated this game I will answer direct questions at some point tomorrow. That's pretty much all I'll do other than some memes and shitposting.

Games been fun. See you all tomorrow

Visor
05-26-2022, 09:37
is it possibe im just thinking sunbae is villagerier than eph because hes pointing out all the contradictions in posts as reasons for wolf reads?

Visor
05-26-2022, 09:41
im tired of thinking about this lol

i just want to see some eph solving before i make up my mind

i need to sleep on this

idk

Visor
05-26-2022, 10:55
im back bitches

so i decided to read some through d2 and an exchange between ender and sunbae stuck out:

"I'm going to take Dya's Insomnia read into account + the whole "Pointed Question" thing or whatever it was between Lan/Insomnia that Rask talked about and think I'm good giving Insomnia the day too today "

"Initial reaction to that is that I want to soft clear anyone that was around and active during eod trying to move wagons around. If they were wolves with lan they were sitting on a bunch of villager wagons with no threat to themselves yet still made the effort to move things around. Top of my head that's Visor, Rask, Mischief?"

both from sunbae

ender then alerts sunbae to the fact he was a wagon at eod and thus a villager in sunbaes world

sunbae takes a leaf out of the nl school of posting and ignores this

LOL

its strange to me that sunbae doesnt consider ender being a constant vote target of lantana, and also blade being one of the only voters of lantana on that day



ender expresses doubt on insomnia

sunbae buries insomnia, in hindsight this is a little weird of a progression - you say earlier that you are going to give him the day and then its bury insomnia time

why does sunbae have ephemeral as his highest clear mid day2 for lantana trying to kill him, when lantana spent most of the day trying to kill ender and ender trying to kill lantana

why is ender in this tier 3 of the poe. now i understand for me why i had trouble committing to a read on him, because he kept shitposting

why does sunbae have nothing to say about the ender lantana stuff idgi

goes on, sunbae responds to the insom claim

god i wish i didnt punt so hard yday, i wish i had conviction in my reads. i couldve done more to push back yesterday.

reading over d2, it is much wolfier than d1 for sunbae (eph is basically nonexistent).

the perspective of: lantana pushed eph therefore eph clear, to not giving the same respect to ender, to burying insomnia after saying he would give him the day

i understand reads can change it just feels like if they did change i didnt see the changes in thread

Visor
05-26-2022, 10:59
i wish i was better at actually internalising the lessons i learn in ww

i thought d2, i should trust dyas read on insomnia because its unlikely that insomnia as a wolf shoots dya there unless they are killing for lantana only

and i couldve ran with that for a day, but i let it go and sat in a big pile of nothing, not feeling anything strongly enough to take any real stances. i couldve pushed the eph read harder too, and maybe that wouldve made an easier f4 here, if not having the game already over.

insom id appreciate any thoughts you have if you are around before i go to bed

Visor
05-26-2022, 11:00
im gonna decide who to vote in the mornign after i see what eph and insomnia have to say

Visor
05-26-2022, 11:08
i just have nothing to grasp at with eph

theres no individual post that stands out to me and says this guy is a villager, this is a keen insight that wolves don't really have, the interactions arent clearing, the posts arent clearing

i have concerns over sunbaes d2, but i cant deny tha this d1 is a lot more villagery than ephs, even if he did townread the wolf consistently (so did i, so its not like a black mark forever thing)

idk. i will state again, that i dont think lantana as a wolf bothers to go those weird places as w/w with me, and i think my reaction is pretty clearly not on the same channel as them. i know repeating this stuff and pointing out while im town isnt anything you want insomnia, but i cant help the anxiety that somehow you'll make the wrong choice and i feel an urgent desire to show you why im town in case we are in the nightmare scenario and it goes to f3 because ive shit the bed so many times already and this is my chance at redeeming myself to get the village over the line, no matter if i am the village idiot @ chit town

the funny thing is, ive been in this scenario a few times lately as a villager, had people village read me, and ive focused on trying to lock down that read and then they panic and even though i dont think the other players itg (in these turbos) are posting v well, they just see the direct appeal and it must trigger all the alarms, because it never works, but in my head i feel like it should, people are just afraid to commit or look stupid, me included. perhaps its a waste of time.

ymmv

Ephemeral
05-26-2022, 11:58
Sorry bronana it?s not even about you casing me, it?s about voting me when i feel like everyone was confused whether i was the vigi or vanillager faking it

I guess if you are a villager you are confused if im the last wolf but you don?t have to worry about it, that?s vigi?s problem and if im the last wolf i never win

You can case someone but voting them when they claim vigi, putting them in a tie??

Eph, why does visor look worse than sunbae here iyo? They have both voted, but sunbae?s vote had a chance to turn the tides when wolves have to deal with a potentially very tough question going into the night: ?do i bite the bait and shoot insomnia who?s a misvote opportunity??

If i flip vanillager, they take almost no heat cuz they were correct in thinking i wasn?t vig and everyone thought it was me

If i flip vigi, the wolf has the F3 target lined up in visor / sunbae, they aren?t alone making the pro-wolf suboptimal play

Frankly it was simply a matter of heart vs mind

Up till last eod I pretty much consistently villa read sunbae's posting and couldn't get myself on board with nl's as much in the grand scheme of things

And if I'm going to be fully honest there's also quite a bit of bias that's been pushing me in that direction, I feel like i have a bit of a personal obligation to read nl properly because we share quite a few similarities as ww players(it's the same thing that pushed me to get quickly better than average at reading manti lol) so it leans towards being a pride thing quite a bit

Even though I don't have prior experience with nl's wolf game I have villaged with him several times and iirc, found him pretty easily back then so not having the same experience here is making me:stare:

There are several issues with this line of thinking obviously, because it could very easily just be a me problem not being on the ball and getting stuck on irrelevant nonsense

and I suppose that's what I'm going to try to find out today lol

Visor
05-26-2022, 12:04
well, whats the irrelevant nonsense u r getting stuck on

i will admit this is definitely an atypical game from me, partially spurred on from the deadlines

i havent been able to play the way i want to

ive been able to find you sometimes too, but i feel like you would agree that its gonna be hard for me to get tehre on you with not enough sticking out + short phases + low posts

Ephemeral
05-26-2022, 12:15
well, whats the irrelevant nonsense u r getting stuck on

i will admit this is definitely an atypical game from me, partially spurred on from the deadlines

i havent been able to play the way i want to

ive been able to find you sometimes too, but i feel like you would agree that its gonna be hard for me to get tehre on you with not enough sticking out + short phases + low posts

ya I get where you're coming from, having less time and content to digest makes it much harder for me to get anywhere solid too

said irrelevant nonsense would primarily be what I described in that post about me having a bit too much personal pride tied to not getting you wrong and comparing the times I was able to find you more easily

like it's easy for me to go "yeah that's prob dumb" on a logical level but the grip is still there emotionally I guess

Visor
05-26-2022, 13:59
Well I hope to see some solving from you when I wake up I guess

Ephemeral
05-26-2022, 14:00
insomnia can you give me some bullet points on why you're thinking sunbae over visor overall? I see your point about last eod but I'm looking for something that's more "big picture" oriented

right now the only hard point I can see myself giving in nl's favor is probably his interactions with lantana, I can definitely see v!him responding that way and I'm not surprised he'd come out of it with a villa read on the slot either

on the other hand sunbae's side of interactions doesn't stand out either way, they do back and forth a little bit but i don't see anything that points towards them not being aligned

Ephemeral
05-26-2022, 14:00
Well I hope to see some solving from you when I wake up I guess

splendid timing bronana

Visor
05-26-2022, 14:15
If you think that interaction makes sense as w/v and you think that's how I would react as a villager, why are you struggling to read me v idgi

Ephemeral
05-26-2022, 14:28
If you think that interaction makes sense as w/v and you think that's how I would react as a villager, why are you struggling to read me v idgi

I generally dislike the feeling of betting the entire game on only one point even if it's a good one, for better or worse lol

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 17:22
im back bitches

so i decided to read some through d2 and an exchange between ender and sunbae stuck out:

"I'm going to take Dya's Insomnia read into account + the whole "Pointed Question" thing or whatever it was between Lan/Insomnia that Rask talked about and think I'm good giving Insomnia the day too today "

"Initial reaction to that is that I want to soft clear anyone that was around and active during eod trying to move wagons around. If they were wolves with lan they were sitting on a bunch of villager wagons with no threat to themselves yet still made the effort to move things around. Top of my head that's Visor, Rask, Mischief?"

both from sunbae

ender then alerts sunbae to the fact he was a wagon at eod and thus a villager in sunbaes world

sunbae takes a leaf out of the nl school of posting and ignores this

LOL

its strange to me that sunbae doesnt consider ender being a constant vote target of lantana, and also blade being one of the only voters of lantana on that day



ender expresses doubt on insomnia

sunbae buries insomnia, in hindsight this is a little weird of a progression - you say earlier that you are going to give him the day and then its bury insomnia time

why does sunbae have ephemeral as his highest clear mid day2 for lantana trying to kill him, when lantana spent most of the day trying to kill ender and ender trying to kill lantana

why is ender in this tier 3 of the poe. now i understand for me why i had trouble committing to a read on him, because he kept shitposting

why does sunbae have nothing to say about the ender lantana stuff idgi

goes on, sunbae responds to the insom claim

god i wish i didnt punt so hard yday, i wish i had conviction in my reads. i couldve done more to push back yesterday.

reading over d2, it is much wolfier than d1 for sunbae (eph is basically nonexistent).

the perspective of: lantana pushed eph therefore eph clear, to not giving the same respect to ender, to burying insomnia after saying he would give him the day

i understand reads can change it just feels like if they did change i didnt see the changes in thread

I did not ignore that. I explained that if Lantana is a dead wolf and one of those people were a wolf, that's both wolves and those wagons had to be villagers.

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 17:22
Yes, if Rask/Visor/Mischief are wolves then you have to be a villager because they are the last one remaining. In those worlds, why would they be so active on v/v/v/v wagons?

Here.

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 17:23
I'm unsure why Ender and you thought it was some big gotcha? It makes perfect sense to me?

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 17:26
Me: Lantana is a dead wolf. I think I want to clear Rask, visor, and mischief because if one of them were wolves then all the wagons were v/v/v and why would wolves be so active trying to move wagons around at end of day?

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 17:33
the funny thing is, ive been in this scenario a few times lately as a villager, had people village read me, and ive focused on trying to lock down that read and then they panic and even though i dont think the other players itg (in these turbos) are posting v well, they just see the direct appeal and it must trigger all the alarms, because it never works, but in my head i feel like it should, people are just afraid to commit or look stupid, me included. perhaps its a waste of time.

ymmv


Sir, I am voting the other person and discussing how I think you're a villager. Repeatedly. I don't think I'm panicked at all. I have had no qualms this game of saying what I believe and at no point have I been afraid of looking stupid.

there is no fear in this dojo

But yes, this is why I've just stopped the self-meta "i wouldnt interact this way/do this as a wolf" because I've determined "its a waste of time" like you said. I tell the truth with it, nobody in the game believes me, then nobody adjusts in the future and we do it again. Now I'm just saying what I think are alignments and moving on.

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 17:46
Like, do I think my interactions with Lan are clearing for me? Yes, I could write paragraphs about it. But at the end everyone will say "well thats what you have to say no matter what" and ignore it and the only thing I've accomplished is wasting my time. Instead, I've spent my time breaking down exactly where my head is at regarding Visor and Ephem: via postings, interactions with Lan, dead night kill reads factoring in, what my hang ups were about Ephem being a wolf, then finding a solution to that hang up and bringing it all together to determine my wolf and villager read. I think that has been a better use of my time.

I do think I'm findable here if you read over my cases and pushes and defenses. "Doe she believe this" is the only question that ultimately matters. I think it's clear that I thought Insomnia was a wolf and that I was thinking Mischief was a villager in all of those interactions. But I've accepted the fact that when you push the vig for two days that sometimes you get shot.

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 17:58
im back bitches

so i decided to read some through d2 and an exchange between ender and sunbae stuck out:

"I'm going to take Dya's Insomnia read into account + the whole "Pointed Question" thing or whatever it was between Lan/Insomnia that Rask talked about and think I'm good giving Insomnia the day too today "

"Initial reaction to that is that I want to soft clear anyone that was around and active during eod trying to move wagons around. If they were wolves with lan they were sitting on a bunch of villager wagons with no threat to themselves yet still made the effort to move things around. Top of my head that's Visor, Rask, Mischief?"

both from sunbae

ender then alerts sunbae to the fact he was a wagon at eod and thus a villager in sunbaes world

sunbae takes a leaf out of the nl school of posting and ignores this

LOL

its strange to me that sunbae doesnt consider ender being a constant vote target of lantana, and also blade being one of the only voters of lantana on that day



ender expresses doubt on insomnia

sunbae buries insomnia, in hindsight this is a little weird of a progression - you say earlier that you are going to give him the day and then its bury insomnia time

why does sunbae have ephemeral as his highest clear mid day2 for lantana trying to kill him, when lantana spent most of the day trying to kill ender and ender trying to kill lantana

why is ender in this tier 3 of the poe. now i understand for me why i had trouble committing to a read on him, because he kept shitposting

why does sunbae have nothing to say about the ender lantana stuff idgi

goes on, sunbae responds to the insom claim

god i wish i didnt punt so hard yday, i wish i had conviction in my reads. i couldve done more to push back yesterday.

reading over d2, it is much wolfier than d1 for sunbae (eph is basically nonexistent).

the perspective of: lantana pushed eph therefore eph clear, to not giving the same respect to ender, to burying insomnia after saying he would give him the day

i understand reads can change it just feels like if they did change i didnt see the changes in thread

Open day: I villa read Rask/Mischief/Visor/Ephem for the end of day. Wolf is in Ender or Insom. I'll listen to dyas insomnia read and vote Ender.

Early in day: I read through end of day and determined that Lan's posting about Insomnia was a panicked wolf trying to save their teammate. I look into interactions and see that they talked to Insomnia way more pointed than anyone else they talk to. Make an entire long case about why I'm going back to Insomnia instead and how it supersedes my earlier dya thing because it's a full blown case I feel good about.

Insomnia claims vig: I don't believe you. I almost counterclaim reflexively but remember rocks fall and say "no. I will not spaz out again. We are in a position where I don't need to do that". I flat out tell Insomnia I don't believe him but I will grumble and vote elsewhere. My options are now Ender/Mischief. I vote Ender, explain that I have no real concrete reason to find Ender wolfy, that I think Mischief is a villager, and that I think we're in one of those situations where we're all going to try and find a wolf in a bunch of villagers because the one right in front of us is a wolf (insomnia) and its like a moon situation from spec chat game when we kept trying to find the harder answer and none of them really felt right.

End of day: Mischief/Ender are wagons. We all joke about how none of us really want to vote Ender we're just not voting for mischief (me cause I villa read, others to listen to me). We all kind of collectively say fuck it. I'm voting the person I think is a wolf, claim be damned. Rask moves, you move, I move. I listened to myself and voted my best wolf read.


I think your "reads can change it just feels like if they did change I didn't see the changes in the thread" comment is incorrect.

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 18:00
Like, I understand what you're doing. If you wolf case both of us it doesn't matter what the answer is, if the vig listens to you then you win. I think that means we win right now but it'd be true regardless.

I much prefer my way of just saying "this is the wolf, that is the villager, gl" but maybe my approach here is flawed. It's certainly an unusual and awkward game state.

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 18:02
Entirely a side note: an entire game of 700 posts where I can actually reread the entire game multiple times is such a wonderful thing. It's the first time I've gotten to end game in a thread like this and it makes life so much easier.

insomnia
05-26-2022, 19:18
Incidentally there's a hilarious world where sunbae/Lantana are wolves but I won't share that one quite yet lol

Visorslash can you elaborate what this was about? I think u mentioned this toDay but i wanna ask again to make sure in case you didn?t elaborate

insomnia
05-26-2022, 19:29
pretty much the bolded yes

I take issue with it entirely because I can't think of anything historically that would prompt someone to read me in that direction so it looks like the read is tacked on there just because, as opposed to it being a real read you'd form on any reasonable basis


ya most likely will be asleep by eod so I'm gonna have to pick a lane in a bit
Visor if you're around can you gimme something on rask here? iirc you had some slam dunk reads on him before

This progression struck me as weird - eph finds rask weird for looking into activity (ok? Gth it?s not an issue in and of itself that much) but i imagine this second post was a result of his first one which i have some difficulty believing to be genuine - not impossible but it?s a minor bad look

insomnia
05-26-2022, 19:31
pretty much the bolded yes

I take issue with it entirely because I can't think of anything historically that would prompt someone to read me in that direction so it looks like the read is tacked on there just because, as opposed to it being a real read you'd form on any reasonable basis


vote: ephemeral

I really gotta think about that taffy read some more

Part of me just wants to village read it because it's not a super good case/weird targets but I do have a weal spot for that stuff

Raskol can you talk about Lantana a bit for me?

Why interested in lantana here?

Zack
05-26-2022, 20:42
Official Tally as of #720

1 Ephemeral (Sunbae)
1 Visor (Ephemeral)

Not Voting: insomnia, Visor

Day 3 ends in thunderously calm

Visor
05-26-2022, 21:23
Visorslash can you elaborate what this was about? I think u mentioned this toDay but i wanna ask again to make sure in case you didn?t elaborate


Why interested in lantana here?

Because I didn't share rasks read at the time

I was v reading them for their katze shit so I asked Rask to see what I was missing

Re the other post: so in sunbaes champs game he got pushed by a player for silly reasons and ended up v reading them for it, and we chatted about it after the game

So when I saw Lantana doing the same thing to me, the thought occured to me that sunbae was using that strategy with Lantana to get them townread plus they were both townreading each other

Which is like hilariously paranoid when I type it out lol

Visor
05-26-2022, 21:39
Visorslash can you elaborate what this was about? I think u mentioned this toDay but i wanna ask again to make sure in case you didn?t elaborate


Me: Lantana is a dead wolf. I think I want to clear Rask, visor, and mischief because if one of them were wolves then all the wagons were v/v/v and why would wolves be so active trying to move wagons around at end of day?

I think the issue stems from ender also being a big wagon but idr

Visor
05-26-2022, 21:42
Visorslash can you elaborate what this was about? I think u mentioned this toDay but i wanna ask again to make sure in case you didn?t elaborate

Pretty disappointed there's just one eph post after I went to bed

His solving today has been hard to parse, the vote on sunbae was just a gut feel, sure, the switch to me has no reasons and he's still voting me which is weird because he seems to express some doubt I'm a wolf and some issues with sunbae but I couldn't tell you right now if he actually thinks I am more likely to flip wolf.

Maybe he thought if he always wins vs sunbae that killing me today is his best bet

Compared to killing sunbae and insomnia having to decide to me vs sunbae

Visor
05-26-2022, 21:43
Go away multiquote lmao

Visor
05-26-2022, 21:46
I'm about 75:25 likely to vote eph over sunbae here I think

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 21:57
I think the issue stems from ender also being a big wagon but idr

Nah, the issue was just "see post that says wagons were villagers" -> not read context around that which shows I'm talking about if one of the eod active people are wolves -> point out that he was a wagon ergo he is a villager

I think it was a shitpost now that I think about it lol

Visor
05-26-2022, 21:58
I was kinda hoping to wake up to an insomnia wall lol

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 22:00
Because I didn't share rasks read at the time

I was v reading them for their katze shit so I asked Rask to see what I was missing

Re the other post: so in sunbaes champs game he got pushed by a player for silly reasons and ended up v reading them for it, and we chatted about it after the game

So when I saw Lantana doing the same thing to me, the thought occured to me that sunbae was using that strategy with Lantana to get them townread plus they were both townreading each other

Which is like hilariously paranoid when I type it out lol

I always have the issue of giving v reads to people that push me and I need to fix it. 90% sure neo did it on purpose knowing that.

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 22:01
I was kinda hoping to wake up to an insomnia wall lol

I am hoping to get a mountain of a post at :59 on the dot from Insomnia about whether its me or you and why, with quotes and theories and meta pulled from other thread, then Ephem gets chopepd wolf 1 minute later and we all laugh for 27 minutes

Visor
05-26-2022, 22:04
I always have the issue of giving v reads to people that push me and I need to fix it. 90% sure neo did it on purpose knowing that.

I tend to do it too, it's a bad habit lol

Visor
05-26-2022, 22:05
I am hoping to get a mountain of a post at :59 on the dot from Insomnia about whether its me or you and why, with quotes and theories and meta pulled from other thread, then Ephem gets chopepd wolf 1 minute later and we all laugh for 27 minutes

Lmao I'd laugh but also my poor anxiety lmao

Visor
05-26-2022, 22:09
Part of me wonders if I'm just used to people suspecting me for spurious reasons so I just tend to go sure fine villa

I tend to attract people who if they think I'm a wolf, really think Im a wolf and everything I say makes them more confident

In hindsight it was a bad read but I just dismissed it as yet another bad read. I guess I should've pushed there because it was attempting to be inarguable and relying on the meta from someone who hasn't seen my wolf game and being so confident in that read despite presumably never playing with me before was a disconnect but idk.

When Rask wolfread them, it knocked the read down a tier, but I wasn't ready to kill them D1 based on that read, should've listened lol

insomnia
05-26-2022, 22:10
I was kinda hoping to wake up to an insomnia wall lol

i fucking hate life :curtain:

all time low performance from me, but i literally could not find the time

fmpov easiest thing to do is to yeet sunbae for insurance he's not a wolf and i shoot eph in the night. if the wolf is in you 2 then it's safe to assume you fooled each other hard? and i read d1 and don't particularly wolfread anything in solitude. flipping sunbae -> i clear visor and shoot eph

does this sound bad? i really am scared eph is not the wolf and if i have to pick between u 2 oh my lawd

even THO in THEORY tomorrow I should should should have time to finally read

man i hate uni

insomnia
05-26-2022, 22:12
i was hyped to wallpost my musings but NOPE

maybe i should vote eph and challenge the last wolf if it's not him

for the final standoff

Visor
05-26-2022, 22:12
I think my biggest issue was not being confident enough in my villa reads to back them and getting too hung up on mischief

That and posting at EOD as usual lol

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 22:13
Lmao I'd laugh but also my poor anxiety lmao

Eh, no real anxiety for this game imo. I think regardless of the answer it's been a fun back and forth game that was entirely pleasant. I don't think anybody did anything overly silly. Even the Insom vote was more of a "I don't want to kill either of these two wagons cause I actively think one is a villager and don't think the other one is wolfy while I think Insom is wolfy" thing so it's not like, egregious or anything imo. A little derpy but whatever it happens. I also think everyones been having a good time trying to solve the game, no issues at all cropped up, and every single one of us has been pressed in this game and responded reasonably and will respect for the other people in the game.

This is, in essence, the type of game that makes me glad I play mafia.

Visor
05-26-2022, 22:15
Eh, no real anxiety for this game imo. I think regardless of the answer it's been a fun back and forth game that was entirely pleasant. I don't think anybody did anything overly silly. Even the Insom vote was more of a "I don't want to kill either of these two wagons cause I actively think one is a villager and don't think the other one is wolfy while I think Insom is wolfy" thing so it's not like, egregious or anything imo. A little derpy but whatever it happens. I also think everyones been having a good time trying to solve the game, no issues at all cropped up, and every single one of us has been pressed in this game and responded reasonably and will respect for the other people in the game.

This is, in essence, the type of game that makes me glad I play mafia.

Oh I enjoyed the game, everyone was fun, but I didn't have the time to process the game to the extent I needed

Obv always anxiety over any endgame situation but it's 24/24 10er if we lose I'll be sad but I'm not gonna beat myself to death over it. We all have bad games now and then lol.

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 22:16
Part of me wonders if I'm just used to people suspecting me for spurious reasons so I just tend to go sure fine villa

I tend to attract people who if they think I'm a wolf, really think Im a wolf and everything I say makes them more confident

In hindsight it was a bad read but I just dismissed it as yet another bad read. I guess I should've pushed there because it was attempting to be inarguable and relying on the meta from someone who hasn't seen my wolf game and being so confident in that read despite presumably never playing with me before was a disconnect but idk.

When Rask wolfread them, it knocked the read down a tier, but I wasn't ready to kill them D1 based on that read, should've listened lol

I think for me I just chalked it up to more posting like Alana/Font in my champs game. I've got to do a better job of equating new people being eager/upbeat as being towny. I'm so used to places where people massively prefer villaging but some places enjoy wolfing more and I never factor that into my ideas.

Visor
05-26-2022, 22:16
i fucking hate life :curtain:

all time low performance from me, but i literally could not find the time

fmpov easiest thing to do is to yeet sunbae for insurance he's not a wolf and i shoot eph in the night. if the wolf is in you 2 then it's safe to assume you fooled each other hard? and i read d1 and don't particularly wolfread anything in solitude. flipping sunbae -> i clear visor and shoot eph

does this sound bad? i really am scared eph is not the wolf and if i have to pick between u 2 oh my lawd

even THO in THEORY tomorrow I should should should have time to finally read

man i hate uni

I mean I'm obviously biased but yes it will win the game for us if you do that.

But if that's who you want to kill it shouldn't matter what order you do it in

insomnia
05-26-2022, 22:16
so visor and sunbae can i have your last words on each other plz

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 22:17
er, new people to me. not to mafia games in general

Visor
05-26-2022, 22:18
I do get your perspective about decisions though

If you think I am much more likely to be a villager than eph then killing sunbae first makes your choice a lot easier

Compared to killing eph and then having to decide between us which is presumably much closer

That's what you are thinking right

Visor
05-26-2022, 22:19
so visor and sunbae can i have your last words on each other plz

More likely villager than eph

If it do ya fine, say thankee

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 22:21
so visor and sunbae can i have your last words on each other plz

He has better interactions with the dead wolf, dead villagers that wolves killed liked him, i had extended interactions with him attempting to solve alignments that never set off warning bells, and i also think he's a pretty swell bloke in general.

So I am going to vote Ephem.

If it is not Ephem, then whatever, he got me. In that world idk what to tell you: you're gonna have to read our posts and decide which one of us is the more likely wolf. How you're gonna get that one right is up to you.

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 22:22
note: ephem is also a swell bloke

insomnia
05-26-2022, 22:22
I do get your perspective about decisions though

If you think I am much more likely to be a villager than eph then killing sunbae first makes your choice a lot easier

Compared to killing eph and then having to decide between us which is presumably much closer

That's what you are thinking right

ye. sunbae is saying u are a villa + i think u've been villa enough at times tho you have felt weird to me too, but if sunbae is confident i'll sheep him and that's why having his flip first makes it way easier. if we kill eph and he's not the wolf then i haveto go between u 2 which is tough

if i would have had extensive time to do research to be confident, i'd just go for who i think is a wolf then standoff at night

Visor
05-26-2022, 22:22
If sunbaes a wolf he's done a great job of representing being fooled by me and I tip my hat to it

Sunbae
05-26-2022, 22:25
He has better interactions with the dead wolf, dead villagers that wolves killed liked him, i had extended interactions with him attempting to solve alignments that never set off warning bells, and i also think he's a pretty swell bloke in general.

So I am going to vote Ephem.

If it is not Ephem, then whatever, he got me. In that world idk what to tell you: you're gonna have to read our posts and decide which one of us is the more likely wolf. How you're gonna get that one right is up to you.

If you would like a town case for that bolded world for myself that is not self meta, I can do one.

Visor
05-26-2022, 22:26
ye. sunbae is saying u are a villa + i think u've been villa enough at times tho you have felt weird to me too, but if sunbae is confident i'll sheep him and that's why having his flip first makes it way easier. if we kill eph and he's not the wolf then i haveto go between u 2 which is tough

if i would have had extensive time to do research to be confident, i'd just go for who i think is a wolf then standoff at night

If that's what you want to do, it doesn't feel right to me because it's not who I think is a wolf but I can't argue with the perspective because I agree with it from the vigs standpoint and I think the vig should decide who dies because they have the decision power in f3

So if that's really what you want I guess