View Full Version : Mini Mafia Game Casual 9er Game Thread
nebjiamn
07-26-2022, 22:56
Vote: El barto
El Barto
07-26-2022, 23:17
El Barto why’d you vote benneh D1?
…
Who's benneh? Seriously, I don't know everybody's offsite nicknames.
I'm awake, why should I care about thread?
This post struck me as odd, that and EW answering my complaint about his 100% fluff posts with hanging a lampshade on it and brazening it out.
Can you pinpoint when that was? I did not get that vibe reading your eod
i kept it out of the thread
tbc i did still think he had a good chance at flipping wolf but by EoD my confidence was less than when i initially voted vul (and tbh i don’t even think my confidence was that high when i voted him but i tried to convince myself of it because i was annoyed at his vote on me and the suspicion on me generally)
but it didn’t seem productive to say i was having #doubts because it didn’t really seem like there was a realistic chance of a cfd and iirc i still had three votes (vul, rask, mont) so i wasn’t comfortable destabilizing vul’s wagon
…
Who's benneh? Seriously, I don't know everybody's offsite nicknames.
This post struck me as odd, that and EW answering my complaint about his 100% fluff posts with hanging a lampshade on it and brazening it out.
benneh = nebjiamn
benneh was pretty suspicious of monty D1 and posted this at EoD:
not a fan of monty's catchup here, especially the deflection that sunbae would need to work to get vulgard lunched today and that leading to a vote on hally for hally asking him to talk about sunbae more
i know we have wagons and all and people need to make a decision but this just feels sloppy
but he really hasn?t done anything with this suspicion today despite monty being a hot topic earlier other than a vague gesture in that direction
wonder if this is distancing when town had already cemented v/v wagons :magnify:
nebjiamn
07-26-2022, 23:30
benneh was pretty suspicious of monty D1 and posted this at EoD:
but he really hasn?t done anything with this suspicion today despite monty being a hot topic earlier other than a vague gesture in that direction
wonder if this is distancing when town had already cemented v/v wagons :magnify:
i forgot about that tbh
but it doesn't really change my view here
nebjiamn
07-26-2022, 23:37
like, holistically, what do i need to do lol
my progression on monty has been:
-null to wolfy while he had 2 posts and extremely confused as to how people were v reading him
-disliking his re-entry to thread near-ish EOD in relation to him defending someone i thought had wolf equity and voting someone i thought had villager equity
-vulgard dying and me resetting somewhat
-rask dying doesn't change anything
-him coming in today with a somewhat silly take that vulgard was the most obvious villager ITT (though now that i recall my progression on him, this seems less absurd given his post @ sunbae that i referenced in the post you quoted)
-he's in my poe but im also scared to mislunch him and am instead fleshing out thoughts on barto/zack while others are pushing him
i can understand some w/w vibes fypov there but i also just think you're looking for zebras when you should be looking for horses
El Barto
07-26-2022, 23:38
benneh = nebjiamn
OK, then:
3) Why is nebjiamn refusing to cast a vote? Sunbae I still do not trust, but nebjiamn is just refusing to expose himself as voting for either of these (checks mafiawiki.org again) ?waggons?. Maybe he'll swoop in at the last minute, especially if he's equipped with a cellular telephone so that bodily functions shall not impede him in such an attempt, but, well, who knows. Do I qualify as this ?LHF??
Sunbae will not be lynched today, so vote:nebjiamn just to make a point.
That was why I voted for him at the time.
And his answer was ‘I'm voting you barto’ and… that was it? Lame.
And now he's voting for me again without any excuse at all, he's just reaching for LHF.
I offer myself for the cause. If you want to ‘thunderdome’ it then vote: nebjiamn and to hell with it. I hardclaim vanilla townie.
Also
2) Why was EnderWiggin cluttering up the thread with this thing that they call shitposting?
He's improved a bit, but then he says he's pocketed you, which you should be wary of.
nebjiamn
07-26-2022, 23:42
OK, then:
That was why I voted for him at the time.
And his answer was ‘I'm voting you barto’ and… that was it? Lame.
And now he's voting for me again without any excuse at all, he's just reaching for LHF.
I offer myself for the cause. If you want to ‘thunderdome’ it then vote: nebjiamn and to hell with it. I hardclaim vanilla townie.
Also
He's improved a bit, but then he says he's pocketed you, which you should be wary of.
my response to you was to showcase how demonstrably false you were
and you then proceeded to vote me and actually refuse to stick your head out on a wagon during that day phase
here's my case: your posts are wolfy and hypocritical and show no depth of thought. en guarde. i hard claim mafia goon
just because you chose to play this game like lhf doesn't mean lhf can't be wolves
fair enough benneh, i don’t think it’s a smoking gun, just something i’ve had in the back of my mind
OK, then:
That was why I voted for him at the time.
And his answer was ‘I'm voting you barto’ and… that was it? Lame.
And now he's voting for me again without any excuse at all, he's just reaching for LHF.
I offer myself for the cause. If you want to ‘thunderdome’ it then vote: nebjiamn and to hell with it. I hardclaim vanilla townie.
Also
He's improved a bit, but then he says he's pocketed you, which you should be wary of.
you voted benneh for not having a vote down when he did have a vote down
and now you’re trying to dome him because…?
water u doin
El Barto
07-26-2022, 23:43
i hard claim mafia goon
*facepalm*
El Barto
07-26-2022, 23:44
fair enough benneh, i don’t think it’s a smoking gun, just something i’ve had in the back of my mind
you voted benneh for not having a vote down when he did have a vote down
and now you’re trying to dome him because…?
water u doin
Bloody x-posts.
For not committing to either waggon, that's why I was voting him. He himself said that he was voting em and that was the point, he was just refusing to commit.
nebjiamn
07-26-2022, 23:45
i mean, its also demonstrably false that i didnt stick my head out on the wagons at any point thru the day anyway, because i did vote hally at some point and it was somewhat serious. i then talked myself out off the ledge a bit and i feel like this is probably indicative in my posts from yesterday but to try and proclaim i had no interest in the wagons because i was voting you at the time is just, like, i may not be LHF as a player in this game but that's an extremely LHF 'reason' if you ask me
Bloody x-posts.
For not committing to either waggon, that's why I was voting him. He himself said that he was voting em and that was the point, he was just refusing to commit.
he did though? he voted vul well before EoD and you still kept your vote parked on him when he had zero chance to go over
you’re the one that didn’t commit bronana
nebjiamn
07-26-2022, 23:47
i'll throw out there i am having some doubts because the blatant hypocrisy and doubling down to push me with it does not strike me as something a wolf wants to do after its been drawn attention to
but wtflolidk
This post struck me as odd, that and EW answering my complaint about his 100% fluff posts with hanging a lampshade on it and brazening it out.
also you’re really suspecting ender for this and saying he’s pocketing me?
don’t you have anything better? you’re a more competent player than to be suspecting people for lame reasons like this imo
El Barto
07-26-2022, 23:50
he did though? he voted vul well before EoD and you still kept your vote parked on him when he had zero chance to go over
you’re the one that didn’t commit bronana
Well, yes, but that all happened after I went offline. When Zack emntioned somethign about posting on cellphones it's precisely his ribbing me for not having one. So unless I am at a computer and with spare time I just won't be posting or reading at all.
nebjiamn
07-26-2022, 23:50
probly out for rest of the day. my apologies if i come in drunk posting later tonight, ill try to stick to turbos
Well, yes, but that all happened after I went offline. When Zack emntioned somethign about posting on cellphones it's precisely his ribbing me for not having one. So unless I am at a computer and with spare time I just won't be posting or reading at all.
untrue ftr
he voted vul 4 hours before EoD and you were still around posting 2 hours later
Players Votes
Montmorency 2 (Sunbae, Zack)
Zack 1 (EnderWiggin)
Sunbae 1 (Montmorency)
El Barto 1 (nebjiamn)
nebjiamn 1 (El Barto)
whatthistextdo
El Barto
07-27-2022, 03:17
untrue ftr
he voted vul 4 hours before EoD and you were still around posting 2 hours later
>_>
I need to re-read the thread at a saner time.
EnderWiggin
07-27-2022, 06:28
Hi guys, I probably have Covid.
EnderWiggin
07-27-2022, 06:29
Which basically means I have ? amount of ability to actually think about this phase rn, given I'm in the process of dying in a gradual and graceful manner. Also my head feels like I'm wrapped in 3 layers of cotton so let's see how that plays out.
oof, sorry man
hope you get well soon
damn, hoping for a swift recovery
EnderWiggin
07-27-2022, 13:44
Me too.
Also dead thread.
EnderWiggin
07-27-2022, 13:45
Let's play "Who are the two people you'd lock town if you had to lock two people town?"
A game hosted and sponsered by sick Ender.
nebjiamn
07-27-2022, 17:32
not really a fan of this since none of my reads are super strong and i think we should re-eval everyone tomorrow if we miss today but to play along.. if i had to put two people together it'd be
me and ur mom
nebjiamn
07-27-2022, 17:51
Hally
why isn't it sunbae/zack
nebjiamn
07-27-2022, 17:52
Next question:
"Is Neb a wolf?"
Well guess what folks.
I'm thinking it's more and more likely. EnderWiggin i still would like to know what prompted this thought considering i had not yet posted
nebjiamn
07-27-2022, 17:54
or myabe i did post twice after getting out of watching a movie
but ykwim
nebjiamn
07-27-2022, 17:58
Oh yeah Barto exists. Can be no blast zone too for now.
how and why?
ill take the pre-his-arrival-to-thread-answer and also the updated read
nebjiamn
07-27-2022, 18:14
Vote: Zack
not really a fan of this since none of my reads are super strong and i think we should re-eval everyone tomorrow if we miss today but to play along.. if i had to put two people together it'd be
me and ur mom
i?m ur mom
Hally
why isn't it sunbae/zack
i don?t think they?ve really been interacting like they?re on the same page? but i?d need to reread
nebjiamn
07-27-2022, 19:41
i?m ur mom
coincidentally i have been pondering ender's question and thinking about having you as my top villa and reconsidering where i am putting ender and sunbae
but i am not sure if i'm throwing
im not really in the market to do the whole "top 2 villa" game. pretty cool with where i've ended up.
forgive me if i'm not posting up a storm and churning through things. most of my current thoughts are at the macro level. not much has changed since my breakdown on the micro level. its a 9er that's officially shifted from fun meme hangout time to serious werewolfing, i dont really want to be devoting a lot of time and energy to serious werewolfing, and i feel reasonably good about where my vote is.
coincidentally i have been pondering ender's question and thinking about having you as my top villa and reconsidering where i am putting ender and sunbae
but i am not sure if i'm throwing
https://i.giphy.com/media/3o84sw9CmwYpAnRRni/200.gif
Basically, I think we've reached the part of the game where we all kinda know who we want to vote off, the thread is open for 48 hours, so we just kinda try to find ways to think ourselves in circles as we wait. I go back to the thing I said yesterday: game doesn't have to be hard. Just find the people who care about figuring out alignments. They are the villagers. Then find the people that don't. They are the wolves.
coincidentally i have been pondering ender's question and thinking about having you as my top villa and reconsidering where i am putting ender and sunbae
but i am not sure if i'm throwing
If it makes you feel better, I think it's pretty clear that I am, in no uncertain terms, not giving a single care about positioning/thread control/or looking good (either via interactions or by making "appealing" cases). It's ... possible ... that I've got a blind spot on Ender but I don't think so?
If it makes you feel better, I think it's pretty clear that I am, in no uncertain terms, not giving a single care about positioning/thread control/or looking good (either via interactions or by making "appealing" cases). It's ... possible ... that I've got a blind spot on Ender but I don't think so?
By this I mean if I'm a wolf I'm clearly not the one I'm expecting to end game, despite the fact that with peoples thoughts on me I would need to be? If that makes sense
Let's play "Who are the two people you'd lock town if you had to lock two people town?"
A game hosted and sponsered by sick Ender.
echoing others + hope you're alright
Basically, I think we've reached the part of the game where we all kinda know who we want to vote off, the thread is open for 48 hours, so we just kinda try to find ways to think ourselves in circles as we wait. I go back to the thing I said yesterday: game doesn't have to be hard. Just find the people who care about figuring out alignments. They are the villagers. Then find the people that don't. They are the wolves.
i agree with this in theory but in practice it’s led you to have two lhf’s as your solve, which doesn’t exactly enthuse me given they get mislunched a bunch as villagers and might be worse at projecting town as town than some players itg are at projecting town as wolf lol
but maybe it’s actually that easy!
coincidentally i have been pondering ender's question and thinking about having you as my top villa and reconsidering where i am putting ender and sunbae
but i am not sure if i'm throwing
what changed?
i agree with this in theory but in practice it’s led you to have two lhf’s as your solve, which doesn’t exactly enthuse me given they get mislunched a bunch as villagers and might be worse at projecting town as town than some players itg are at projecting town as wolf lol
but maybe it’s actually that easy!
or at least, that’s what i gather from the few times i’ve seen them play + how people talk about them
i agree with this in theory but in practice it’s led you to have two lhf’s as your solve, which doesn’t exactly enthuse me given they get mislunched a bunch as villagers and might be worse at projecting town as town than some players itg are at projecting town as wolf lol
but maybe it’s actually that easy!
Well let's break things down a bit then.
Let's start with my last pairing posts. Do you have an glaring objections to what I've said there? Any pairs I removed that you think are viable or vice versa?
gonna suck down some store brand coffee and vocaroo all my thoughts to get benneh off my back with the sweet honey of my voice
the reason im gonna win this game? simple
i come from the bronanian school of werewolf philosophy. i am training daily with bronana from the syndicate in order to attain the maximum amount of thread sway as both alignments and i have a silver tongue that i can easily manipulate with.
peekonomics
Well let's break things down a bit then.
Let's start with my last pairing posts. Do you have an glaring objections to what I've said there? Any pairs I removed that you think are viable or vice versa?
give me a bit and i’ll go back and look
wanna do some rl stuff rq before i get sucked in here
give me a bit and i’ll go back and look
wanna do some rl stuff rq before i get sucked in here
HALLY FROZEN AND CRYING IN WOLFCHAT
benneh: why is barto wolfier than monty iyo?
nebjiamn
07-27-2022, 20:13
what changed?
just considering all avenues. hallys top poster and most of her posts sound very good. i think game solve wise i think their pov makes most sense to me esp in comparison to you and sunbae. i have lots of reasons to read her well and above monty and barto and i obviously still think you have a good amount of w equity (though i would not lump you in the same category of me having lots of reasons to v read hally over you, i just kinda think you fit the wolf mold well with how the game has played out (i realize this is a silly metric that may not make sense but im going with it since its the theme of the post (idk what im doing dog.jpeg)))
some lingering doubts about sunbae and ender. moreso ender because i feel like ender may have slipped through a blindspot for me because he's felt different from sorc game but i may have given that too much credence since the context of how ender's posted is obviously very different to the dynamic there was on sorc for lots of reasons
i guess in other words:
i villa read sunbae quite a bit but always acknowledge he has wolf potential cause he's just super good at fooling me
i villa read hally quite a bit, i also acknowledge she has wolf potential cause she's super good at fooling me too but i think the totality of her posting has me pushing her up a little higher as game/day has gone on
i kinda villa read ender based off game/threadstate vibes and posts but i don't have a super substantive read on his posts even though i certainly could/should based on his volume and content
i kinda wolf read monty and barto based off game/threadstate vibes and posts but i don't feel like i CAN get a truly confident substantive read on their posts based on volume and content, other than a few of their wolfy statements/positions on the game ('vulgard was the most obviously villagery player itt' & 'nebjiamn never took a stance' while never taking a stance and misremembering a stance was taken) which also feels a bit nonsensical for wolves to do
and i kinda wolf read you based off game/threadstate vibes and posts cause it feels like in relation to the non-monty/barto posters you seem the most ... uninhibited/lacking concern about trying to solve today. whch i acknowledge could very well be because you are coming to the same conclusion as hally/sunbae that it could be a rather boring team of barto/monty and maybe you dont feel great about that or feel the need to dig in much deeper than you have already today but its just kinda how my reads end up?
i realize this turned from a "why hally #1" to a whole thing but ya
"if hally decided to tryhard as w in a casual game then so be it" --me, a few hours ago probably
nebjiamn
07-27-2022, 20:13
peekonomics
damn, zack is now lock clear
nebjiamn
07-27-2022, 20:20
benneh: why is barto wolfier than monty iyo?
hypocrisy and straight up lies (at worst)/inattention to thread (at best) about who and why i was voting while refusing to take a stance himself
consider the world hally is a villager, which is where im living now: barto suspected me and kind of directed me (but also the thread) to "make a decision" on vulgard/hally -- two villa wagons. and my 'refusal' to do so from his POV was reason to then suspect and push me, another villager. he votes me and refuses to actually take a stance on those two. i am not sure he has even taken a stance on anytthing today besides me being his only wolf? i might need to reread but i dont think he's given a read on hally, nor did he give a lean on vulgard prior to his flip?
as mentioned above when me/barto/hally were in thread the only thing that is giving me pause is that being that hypocritical and trying to douse me with suspicion feels like something a wolf might not actually want to draw attention to?
as im typing this i realize it may in fact work that way for monty too re: have hally/sunbae thunderdome or whatever it was in terms of locking up v/v wagons, but fmpov he could still potentially have a wolf in th at pair (although i think its unlikely). from barto's POV it is much more likely he was pushing 3 villas since i know vulgard's and my alignment and have a good feeling about hallys
nebjiamn
07-27-2022, 20:22
i think even if i'm wrong on hally it still feels wolfy because its like, sorta TMI-ish and gotcha journalism before anything actually happens
just considering all avenues. hallys top poster and most of her posts sound very good. i think game solve wise i think their pov makes most sense to me esp in comparison to you and sunbae. i have lots of reasons to read her well and above monty and barto and i obviously still think you have a good amount of w equity (though i would not lump you in the same category of me having lots of reasons to v read hally over you, i just kinda think you fit the wolf mold well with how the game has played out (i realize this is a silly metric that may not make sense but im going with it since its the theme of the post (idk what im doing dog.jpeg)))
L + ratio + mislunch me daddy + get mooked + fair enough + :curtain: + :stare:
some lingering doubts about sunbae and ender. moreso ender because i feel like ender may have slipped through a blindspot for me because he's felt different from sorc game but i may have given that too much credence since the context of how ender's posted is obviously very different to the dynamic there was on sorc for lots of reasons
i guess in other words:
i villa read sunbae quite a bit but always acknowledge he has wolf potential cause he's just super good at fooling me
i villa read hally quite a bit, i also acknowledge she has wolf potential cause she's super good at fooling me too but i think the totality of her posting has me pushing her up a little higher as game/day has gone on
i kinda villa read ender based off game/threadstate vibes and posts but i don't have a super substantive read on his posts even though i certainly could/should based on his volume and content
i kinda wolf read monty and barto based off game/threadstate vibes and posts but i don't feel like i CAN get a truly confident substantive read on their posts based on volume and content, other than a few of their wolfy statements/positions on the game ('vulgard was the most obviously villagery player itt' & 'nebjiamn never took a stance' while never taking a stance and misremembering a stance was taken) which also feels a bit nonsensical for wolves to do
and i kinda wolf read you based off game/threadstate vibes and posts cause it feels like in relation to the non-monty/barto posters you seem the most ... uninhibited/lacking concern about trying to solve today. whch i acknowledge could very well be because you are coming to the same conclusion as hally/sunbae that it could be a rather boring team of barto/monty and maybe you dont feel great about that or feel the need to dig in much deeper than you have already today but its just kinda how my reads end up?
i realize this turned from a "why hally #1" to a whole thing but ya
"if hally decided to tryhard as w in a casual game then so be it" --me, a few hours ago probably
good post tbh, despite the regrettable anti-zack discrimination contained therein
what do you think the game looks like if you and me are v/v? I kinda think it is probably just the boring team we are dancing around not wanting to mislunch and feel bad. I dunno how I could possibly justify voting any of you/hally/sunbae/ender over monty or barto. At the end of the day, the first four there seem reasonably villagy and there's not much specific I can point to and say AHA GOTCHA, and the latter two just aren't unless I try doing some kind of TWTBTWATWBWGEAFGAWFAWOFM analysis.
I try to wolfread one of the so-called big names and I just can't do it lol, ggwp if i just got fooled by someone up to this point
hypocrisy and straight up lies (at worst)/inattention to thread (at best) about who and why i was voting while refusing to take a stance himself
consider the world hally is a villager, which is where im living now: barto suspected me and kind of directed me (but also the thread) to "make a decision" on vulgard/hally -- two villa wagons. and my 'refusal' to do so from his POV was reason to then suspect and push me, another villager. he votes me and refuses to actually take a stance on those two. i am not sure he has even taken a stance on anytthing today besides me being his only wolf? i might need to reread but i dont think he's given a read on hally, nor did he give a lean on vulgard prior to his flip?
as mentioned above when me/barto/hally were in thread the only thing that is giving me pause is that being that hypocritical and trying to douse me with suspicion feels like something a wolf might not actually want to draw attention to?
as im typing this i realize it may in fact work that way for monty too re: have hally/sunbae thunderdome or whatever it was in terms of locking up v/v wagons, but fmpov he could still potentially have a wolf in th at pair (although i think its unlikely). from barto's POV it is much more likely he was pushing 3 villas since i know vulgard's and my alignment and have a good feeling about hallys
that's fair (enough)
and while he's hypocritical in a possibly villagy way, I honestly could not tell you what his stances on anything were day 1 without going back to actually read them. He usually likes to distance a bit in my experience though, I'm not sure he'd have the cajones to call for villager thunderdomes every day while barely posting lol
homerhedge.gif
I of course meant to say cojones.
Yo soy gringo, lo siento
nebjiamn
07-27-2022, 20:28
L + ratio + mislunch me daddy + get mooked + fair enough + :curtain: + :stare:
good post tbh, despite the regrettable anti-zack discrimination contained therein
what do you think the game looks like if you and me are v/v? I kinda think it is probably just the boring team we are dancing around not wanting to mislunch and feel bad. I dunno how I could possibly justify voting any of you/hally/sunbae/ender over monty or barto. At the end of the day, the first four there seem reasonably villagy and there's not much specific I can point to and say AHA GOTCHA, and the latter two just aren't unless I try doing some kind of TWTBTWATWBWGEAFGAWFAWOFM analysis.
I try to wolfread one of the so-called big names and I just can't do it lol, ggwp if i just got fooled by someone up to this point
if we're v/v then i'd have some more suspicion on ender but agree that it increases monty/barto equity quite a bit
I think the way I'd say my current thoughts are: It's been floated a couple of times this game that "oh that solve is too easy" but, in the world where that solve is correct what else but this would the game look like? You have this core of Me/Ender/Hally/Neb/Zack that took hard looks at portions of that group, tried to make the arguments that wolves existed in there, and couldn't come up with any substantive arguments that felt right. It's not like we all just *wanted to villa read each other and are hoping it's right*. We fought, grilled each other, responded, worked through pairings, and came to the conclusion that we don't think the wolves are in there. We *wanted there to be wolves in there and have determined it's likely not the case*.
In essence, a group of likely villagers played well and found each other through confrontation + logic + working with each other as the game progressed and all kind of came to the conclusion that the most likely answer is just Mont/Barto. That's not "defaulting and feel bad". That's just how the game's played out.
if we're v/v then i'd have some more suspicion on ender but agree that it increases monty/barto equity quite a bit
Yeah there is definite possibility I've let him slide by misinterpreting different from a previous wolf game as being villagy. Maybe I'm also pocketed a bit by him making a serious push on me based on gut and vibes, I kind of got the impression it was something he genuinely believed and was maybe even avoiding giving much in the way of concrete reasons so that I wouldn't have anything to wrap my silver tongue around and slither away from
Like, believe me I very much want Hally to be a wolf because I'd be so proud of my day 1 for picking up on it, fighting through suspicion for thinking it, and working it out. I just don't currently think it's the case.
I think the way I'd say my current thoughts are: It's been floated a couple of times this game that "oh that solve is too easy" but, in the world where that solve is correct what else but this would the game look like? You have this core of Me/Ender/Hally/Neb/Zack that took hard looks at portions of that group, tried to make the arguments that wolves existed in there, and couldn't come up with any substantive arguments that felt right. It's not like we all just *wanted to villa read each other and are hoping it's right*. We fought, grilled each other, responded, worked through pairings, and came to the conclusion that we don't think the wolves are in there. We *wanted there to be wolves in there and have determined it's likely not the case*.
In essence, a group of likely villagers played well and found each other through confrontation + logic + working with each other as the game progressed and all kind of came to the conclusion that the most likely answer is just Mont/Barto. That's not "defaulting and feel bad". That's just how the game's played out.
cold open on the episode starting with this post
"The Gang Misyeets Zack" title card displays as the It's Always Sunny theme starts playing
Like, believe me I very much want Hally to be a wolf because I'd be so proud of my day 1 for picking up on it, fighting through suspicion for thinking it, and working it out. I just don't currently think it's the case.
I'm sorry if you already covered this but what solidified you on Hally being a villa vs thinking they were a wolf day 1?
I'm sorry if you already covered this but what solidified you on Hally being a villa vs thinking they were a wolf day 1?
Combo of working through pairs, other peoples reads, the sheer audacity some of the posts would need in order to be wolf, the fact that hally has been consistently appearing to try and figure out alignments
Combo of working through pairs, other peoples reads, the sheer audacity some of the posts would need in order to be wolf, the fact that hally has been consistently appearing to try and figure out alignments
gotcha, just double-checking you could back up the :argue: --> :love: progression with actual reasons. still a bit wary it's a "they're probably not lunchable anymore" thing but cest la vie.
or a "you're actually w/w and it was all theater and that's why you switched to vulgard and are townreading each other day 2" thing :creep:
and "rask was causing problems for us while benneh/zack weren't" :creep:
... I'm going to read back one sec
nebjiamn
07-27-2022, 20:59
hmmyes
If we're playing the "if im a wolf my partner is x" game, pretty sure mine would either be Hally or Ender depending on whether I went for distancing or clear each other routes
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand why Hally is a wolf. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical RP most of the jokes will go over a typical poster's head. There's also Hally's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into their characterisation- their personal mafia philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The MU elite understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realise that they're not just funny- they say something deep about MAFIA. As a consequence people who are confused by Hally truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Hally's existential catchphrase "NO BULLI" which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Hally's genius wit unfolds itself on their computer screens. What fools.. how I pity them. ?
And yes, by the way, i DO have a buttercup tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the champs finalists' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid ?
i thought hally's reaction to me was lightly villagy, but you're right, i should keep my vote. :thumbsup:
Like, obviously i'm memeing for the lolz (i am firmly on "i dont care anymore, gonna have fun SHOTS" on the chart atm) but if I wanna drop it for a sec i actually think hally is wolfy and i want to see if you picked up on why
mum said its your turn to be bad cop
:whip:
wtf you?re not supposed to wolf read me until EoD
no head starts!
its because
peepeepoopoo just dont like the way they've turned the whole "thought barto was wolfy, thought about voting him before the rp realization" into shade on mont while also defending themselves by saying they never pushed barto but also found him wolfy but its also nai now but also its kinda villagery. think it has w/w equity even!
also im low key mad hally didnt enjoy my pastas and will respond with a wolf read
"do it, cowards" didn't work out as well as i hoped in that turbo so dont tempt the fates with "cfd me like a man" lmao
wat?
i didn?t shade monty, i asked him questions, expressed confusion about his read and ended by saying he might be villagery
and i didn?t defend myself by saying i never pushed barto, i said i never pushed monty
i also never said barto was kinda villagery, i just disagreed with wolf reading him. monty was who i said might be villagery, not barto. barto is null to me.
i don?t think anything you said in this post is an accurate characterization of what i?ve posted lol
i thanked the terminator one!
gonna be honest, i didn't have "lol nothing you said is accurate" to be the response and i dont really know what to do with that so ill just shrug and move on
apparently there's a limit for multi-quotes on the org, had to go back and un-select everything to get more, what a pita.
This actually did seem plausibly aligned theater looking back on it, up until about where Hally seemed legitimately affronted by the read and sunbae backed off.
v/v or hally w/sunbae v: these don't really need explanation or analysis, in these worlds it is just exactly as it appears.
sunbae w, hally v: Sunbae tried to pocket me by jumping on hally, I didn't respond the way he expected then Hally roasted him so he backed off and moved on.
w/w: It was intended to be theater and a pocket on me, I guess? It's theoretically even possible that it wasn't coordinated in wolf chat, and what Sunbae intended as some light very early distancing elicited a much stronger reactino from his partner than anticipated and he didn't konw how respond. Don't think I really buy this being a thing.
:beatnik:
is it something to with the way they've talked about barto? I don't generally care for these kind of guessing games (for various reasons)
uh I guess this got lost in the MQ software somewhere, but it's important context before "its because [wolfread in spoilers]"
Sunbae making his way off Hally onto Vulgard seems plausible as either genuine or as a show, really.
but I think the way he came back to try and put hally back on the table before that is unlikely as w/w when you've got a strong team like that. It's possible he did it to get villa read and didn't expect the wagon to actually take off (so then shifted to vulgard) but idk, you can fit a narrative like that around almost anything if you want and that feels more like looking for a zebra than a horse, as benneh said earlier.
I'm going to take a moment to just flesh out thoughts here:
- There are 7 of us left and I think I can remove quite a few w/w pairings. I don't think Benneh/Hally, Benneh/Zack, Ender/Hally, Ender/Zack, Hally/Barto, Hally/Mont, or Mont/Zack work.
Leaves me with Barto/Benneh, Barto/Ender, Barto/Mont, Barto/Zack, Benneh/Ender, Benneh/Mont, Ender/Mont, Hally/Zack
- Of these pairs, the ones I can see things as "possibly w/w" instead of just "not not w/w" if that makes sense are:
Barto/Benneh: Barto's fixation on Benneh vanity wagon while villagers are going at each other throughout the day + Benneh's calling it out near eod while the clock is winding down.
Barto/Ender: Ender has a few small defenses of Barto in relation to wolf pushes, like while Vulgard is getting wagoned and the thread thinks he's a wolf, saying "don't think vulgard/barto are w/w" as well as adding him to the no blast zone today.
Barto/Mont: The way Mont calls Barto's opening wolfy and but then uses it to try and vote me for Barto's way he talked to me and shade Zack for not catching that Barto is iffy already.
Hally/Zack: The way Hally has shifted from defending Zack to Ender (in relation to Neb) to shading Zack once Neb came in being concerned about Zack too and the way Zack didn't really want to engage me for a bit on Hally early.
- Using peoples posts in isolation, I don't think Ender is a wolf. I don't really thiiiink benneh is one either (talked about that a bit ago). I'm also not really sure I have Hally as a wolf (have talked about this a lot).
I think I want to just call the wolf team Mont/Barto
i don?t really disagree with ruling out any of the pairs you ruled out sunbae
not sure what that?s worth given half of them include me lol
just considering all avenues. hallys top poster and most of her posts sound very good. i think game solve wise i think their pov makes most sense to me esp in comparison to you and sunbae. i have lots of reasons to read her well and above monty and barto and i obviously still think you have a good amount of w equity (though i would not lump you in the same category of me having lots of reasons to v read hally over you, i just kinda think you fit the wolf mold well with how the game has played out (i realize this is a silly metric that may not make sense but im going with it since its the theme of the post (idk what im doing dog.jpeg)))
some lingering doubts about sunbae and ender. moreso ender because i feel like ender may have slipped through a blindspot for me because he's felt different from sorc game but i may have given that too much credence since the context of how ender's posted is obviously very different to the dynamic there was on sorc for lots of reasons
i guess in other words:
i villa read sunbae quite a bit but always acknowledge he has wolf potential cause he's just super good at fooling me
i villa read hally quite a bit, i also acknowledge she has wolf potential cause she's super good at fooling me too but i think the totality of her posting has me pushing her up a little higher as game/day has gone on
i kinda villa read ender based off game/threadstate vibes and posts but i don't have a super substantive read on his posts even though i certainly could/should based on his volume and content
i kinda wolf read monty and barto based off game/threadstate vibes and posts but i don't feel like i CAN get a truly confident substantive read on their posts based on volume and content, other than a few of their wolfy statements/positions on the game ('vulgard was the most obviously villagery player itt' & 'nebjiamn never took a stance' while never taking a stance and misremembering a stance was taken) which also feels a bit nonsensical for wolves to do
and i kinda wolf read you based off game/threadstate vibes and posts cause it feels like in relation to the non-monty/barto posters you seem the most ... uninhibited/lacking concern about trying to solve today. whch i acknowledge could very well be because you are coming to the same conclusion as hally/sunbae that it could be a rather boring team of barto/monty and maybe you dont feel great about that or feel the need to dig in much deeper than you have already today but its just kinda how my reads end up?
i realize this turned from a "why hally #1" to a whole thing but ya
"if hally decided to tryhard as w in a casual game then so be it" --me, a few hours ago probably
good post
fwiw i don’t feel like i’ve tried particularly hard this game
a lot of my postcount is a product of defending myself against everyone itg wolf reading me but in terms of actual solving effort i think i’m pretty even with y’all
Sunbae making his way off Hally onto Vulgard seems plausible as either genuine or as a show, really.
but I think the way he came back to try and put hally back on the table before that is unlikely as w/w when you've got a strong team like that. It's possible he did it to get villa read and didn't expect the wagon to actually take off (so then shifted to vulgard) but idk, you can fit a narrative like that around almost anything if you want and that feels more like looking for a zebra than a horse, as benneh said earlier.
might be nothing but this sequence makes me :stare:
trying to see if i can articulate why i think ender is a villager
it’s something like, uh… he feels disconnected from what the rest of the thread is doing?
like, D1 sunbae and me got a lot of flack but ender didn’t make a move towards either of us. he strongly town read sunbae and seemed uninterested in suspecting me. instead he was over on zack for “gut” or something, and it’s like… why? if he wanted to push on one of the big names the gamestate was ripe for him to go in on me or sunbae but instead he went for zack who nobody was interested in and he didn’t even try to milk it to look villagery, he just plopped his read in the thread and that was it. he also hasn’t made a move to mont or bart despite them being the easiest pushes itg. buzzword but i don’t really see the agenda to it. feels more like a villager who is content to have his reads and doesn’t care what anyone else is doing.
i acknowledge this is a pretty nebulous reason to v read him but i do feel pretty okay about it? obviously somewhat dependent on who his partner is if he’s a wolf but yeah
i don?t really disagree with ruling out any of the pairs you ruled out sunbae
not sure what that?s worth given half of them include me lol
Ok, so then why are you concerned that it's just too easy? Like this isn't a big mash or anything. It's a small 9er and these are usually solved just by some combo of POE and worldbuilding.
I could maybe see the argument that the most ABC vote is just barto since I have them in more "actively w/w" pairs but, frankly, I just think that Monty is the wolfiest poster in the game and want to chop there.
trying to see if i can articulate why i think ender is a villager
it’s something like, uh… he feels disconnected from what the rest of the thread is doing?
like, D1 sunbae and me got a lot of flack but ender didn’t make a move towards either of us. he strongly town read sunbae and seemed uninterested in suspecting me. instead he was over on zack for “gut” or something, and it’s like… why? if he wanted to push on one of the big names the gamestate was ripe for him to go in on me or sunbae but instead he went for zack who nobody was interested in and he didn’t even try to milk it to look villagery, he just plopped his read in the thread and that was it. he also hasn’t made a move to mont or bart despite them being the easiest pushes itg. buzzword but i don’t really see the agenda to it. feels more like a villager who is content to have his reads and doesn’t care what anyone else is doing.
i acknowledge this is a pretty nebulous reason to v read him but i do feel pretty okay about it? obviously somewhat dependent on who his partner is if he’s a wolf but yeah
My reason for villa reading ender is that when he was a wolf I was able to look at his posts at some point and say "i can see what he's doing if he's a wolf" and this game I don't know what he's doing if he's a wolf. In terms of like, general thread positioning and attempts to kill/protect others.
i know i’ve talked about it a lot and you guys are sick of hearing about it but why does a bart/mont team kill rask?
i get there are levels to it and i don’t wanna claim to know what either of them would do as wolves but rask seems like a particularly bad kill for them? he was 1) at least somewhat lunchable, 2) tunneling a villager who was the cw to the D1 mislunch and 2) the only one to town read bart D1
i don’t see what that kill accomplishes for them by any metric really?
Sunbae making his way off Hally onto Vulgard seems plausible as either genuine or as a show, really.
but I think the way he came back to try and put hally back on the table before that is unlikely as w/w when you've got a strong team like that. It's possible he did it to get villa read and didn't expect the wagon to actually take off (so then shifted to vulgard) but idk, you can fit a narrative like that around almost anything if you want and that feels more like looking for a zebra than a horse, as benneh said earlier.
If it makes you feel better, you can tell I'm a villager because I have not attempted to pocket anyone nor use my villa cred to either attack someone else nor defend anyone. I'm not trying to convince anyone to do anything. I'm just saying my thoughts and being cool with it.
My reason for villa reading ender is that when he was a wolf I was able to look at his posts at some point and say "i can see what he's doing if he's a wolf" and this game I don't know what he's doing if he's a wolf. In terms of like, general thread positioning and attempts to kill/protect others.
alright, we’re on the same page then so that’s good
unless you’re w/w :stare:
I thought about the kill briefly. Realized there were too many factors for me to come with anything concrete from it (even mentioned I was going to ignore it). Maybe Rask died due to history with a wolf, maybe Rask died for pushing you and I'm silly, maybe it was a widely villa read thing, maybe everyone else had more suspicion on them at some point. Not really for me to know and I decided to just read people based on their posting or interactions.
Players Votes
Montmorency 2 (Sunbae, Zack)
Zack 2 (EnderWiggin, nebjiamn)
Sunbae 1 (Montmorency)
nebjiamn 1 (El Barto)
whatthistextdo
maybe it was a "that group of 4 seems primed to go at each other lets no break it up" thing
maybe there's not a master plan and wolf chat is just "who do we kill?" "idk rask?" "ya alright, so anyways did you see the new thor movie yet?"
Like, I guess my thing is "if you want to say 'oh idk if mont is a wolf because why would kill rask' then take it to the next level for me and tell me who WOULD kill rask"
cause right now i think my current plan of "thats a kill that happened, moving on" is ideal but I can at least listen to what you have to say
If it makes you feel better, you can tell I'm a villager because I have not attempted to pocket anyone nor use my villa cred to either attack someone else nor defend anyone. I'm not trying to convince anyone to do anything. I'm just saying my thoughts and being cool with it.
:stare:
I thought about the kill briefly. Realized there were too many factors for me to come with anything concrete from it (even mentioned I was going to ignore it). Maybe Rask died due to history with a wolf, maybe Rask died for pushing you and I'm silly, maybe it was a widely villa read thing, maybe everyone else had more suspicion on them at some point. Not really for me to know and I decided to just read people based on their posting or interactions.
this
Players Votes
Montmorency 2 (Sunbae, Zack)
Zack 2 (EnderWiggin, nebjiamn)
Sunbae 1 (Montmorency)
nebjiamn 1 (El Barto)
whatthistextdo
: )
:stare:
me: tells people exactly the difference between my wolf/villager approaches
people: never believes me
me: *flips villager*
people: shocked pikachu
Montmorency
07-27-2022, 23:02
Can't say my head space has expanded much since mid-D1. Time's up for Barto, he's been squarely within his mafia range the whole time. Hally might be more sus than Sunbae. I don't like taking the easy route of eliminating Barto first, since there's a lot of risk that there's few associations to find, and frankly he's a less-dangerous endgame prospect; order of operations influences my approach.
Now, the interactions between Sunbae and Hally being premeditated can't be dismissed, and I would give the pairing more review in a larger game, but for the sake of a mini I choose to believe a two-maf team wouldn't approach the game like this from early D1, in almost all worlds.
I don't have much either good or bad* to say about the rest, so it's a Barto-Hally TDome. (but Bart-Neb disclusive)
*though others do
orgah discrimination
Anti-Orgatism
Montmorency
07-27-2022, 23:04
i think these are the only times monty mentioned vul
am i missing something?
there?s a certain smugness and audacity to monty?s ?vul was the most obvious villager itg? after making those two nothingburger posts about him D1 that i kinda wanna town read
but on the other hand, i don?t really buy he genuinely believes that or really anything else he?s said today
the supreme confidence that sunbae and i need to thunderdome feels like it?s just pulled from a hat :shrug:
TDome and Vulgard are the bulk of my D1 commentary. Most relevant:
Extensive activity self-synopsis oesn't sound like Sorc-Sunbae, does it? Much more egoistic. I could be wrong. Am I wrong? If I'm right Sunbae should be in the TDome.
I'm aware of the risk, but if you want to send Vulgard you'll have to work for it today.
Please, isn't it obvious that Sunbae-Hally need to TD? Look at this interesting reasoning.
Always a good process for catching Bart. Survivor of Sunbae-Hally should TD Bart.
I know Vulgard is being POEd, but I have my feelings about that, and there's no one slotted other than you two for D1, and moreover you Tdome together so well, which even you must admit.
Not that he was lockable D1, but it was a pretty obvious loltown ouster from a long wind. And I had that impression even before I read his p. 11 wall today.
My latest Org mafia rands that matter for your purposes are Chess, Visor's Small Mafia (2016), and Futuramafia (though I've never been such a try-hard mafia before or since that period). I don't think Zack can back up his claim, but I suspect we have disagreements on the particulars of each other's meta.
i kept it out of the thread
tbc i did still think he had a good chance at flipping wolf but by EoD my confidence was less than when i initially voted vul (and tbh i don?t even think my confidence was that high when i voted him but i tried to convince myself of it because i was annoyed at his vote on me and the suspicion on me generally)
but it didn?t seem productive to say i was having #doubts because it didn?t really seem like there was a realistic chance of a cfd and iirc i still had three votes (vul, rask, mont) so i wasn?t comfortable destabilizing vul?s wagon
no wei, you din'dt say that it is the official hour for CFD onto Monty/Barto if'n the inclination came sufficiently upon you, therefore you were single-mindedly tunneled onto Vulgard.
i would much rather try my luck with rask tunneling me because he had less thread pull particularly with zack/benneh and i don?t think he was as town read
Suggestive reasoning.
re: benneh, i don?t know if i?d call it a wolf read really but i?ll walk through my thought process anyway
i think the rask kill makes sense for a team that wasn?t really threatened D1 and can afford to kill someone just to cast me in a negative light and continue the incorrect status quo. rask wasn?t really pushing anyone besides me so he wasn?t an active threat to any wolves D1 readswise. he also wasn?t that townread and didn?t have really any thread pull so i don?t think he was positioned as a likely NK. maybe i?m missing something but from my perspective as a villager the only motivation i can really see for N1ing rask is making me look bad.
There are other reasons, but as you note most of them involve a Mafia team clustered among the high posters, including Hally.
looking at those worlds i do think a bart/mont team just kills zack N1? he knows them the best and was reasonably suspicious of both D1 so it seems like the obvious kill for that team and i don?t think a team of mont/bart was positioned well enough N1 to kill rask
Surprisingly good point.
your hedging is starting to freak me out
i think it was who amrock described me as the most indecisive, hedgiest villager ever and i wear that badge with honor
Zack, do you remember what Hally was like in your Mass Effect game? She fooled pretty much everyone. AFAICR she had ultra-pure tone, which I'm not sensing in this game.
Montmorency
07-27-2022, 23:04
Also he fits really well into IAWY's famous "vibe tell" about wolves who are there but I can't remember much about their stances without going back and checking their ISO.
Interesting concept.
i dont really know how to convey this to the thread in a convincing way but i think its likely zack/barto/X
:stare: :cool2:
game just felt static. dadv basically. i felt good about vulgard for a while but as we approached eod i realized there was no friction in the game which meant if he had a partner they'd given up on him long ago and that just didn't feel right?
ngl, part of it was also just me memeing to myself that i was creature and being doom and gloom, but it was also a genuine thought i had
But the thing is, DADV means nothing in a mini, especially if there is an overwhelming consensus. Invoking DADV at that point over someone you ostensibly comfortably suspect just smacks of PIS.
speaking of monty, i have legit no idea what to do or how to parse his line about vulgard being the most obvious villager itt yesterday
None of you were outstanding townies, Vulgard posted unobjectionably for a townie, there were several better candidates = loltown. :shrug:
I'm going to take a moment to just flesh out thoughts here:
- There are 7 of us left and I think I can remove quite a few w/w pairings. I don't think Benneh/Hally, Benneh/Zack, Ender/Hally, Ender/Zack, Hally/Barto, Hally/Mont, or Mont/Zack work.
Leaves me with Barto/Benneh, Barto/Ender, Barto/Mont, Barto/Zack, Benneh/Ender, Benneh/Mont, Ender/Mont, Hally/Zack
- Of these pairs, the ones I can see things as "possibly w/w" instead of just "not not w/w" if that makes sense are:
Barto/Benneh: Barto's fixation on Benneh vanity wagon while villagers are going at each other throughout the day + Benneh's calling it out near eod while the clock is winding down.
Barto/Ender: Ender has a few small defenses of Barto in relation to wolf pushes, like while Vulgard is getting wagoned and the thread thinks he's a wolf, saying "don't think vulgard/barto are w/w" as well as adding him to the no blast zone today.
Barto/Mont: The way Mont calls Barto's opening wolfy and but then uses it to try and vote me for Barto's way he talked to me and shade Zack for not catching that Barto is iffy already.
Hally/Zack: The way Hally has shifted from defending Zack to Ender (in relation to Neb) to shading Zack once Neb came in being concerned about Zack too and the way Zack didn't really want to engage me for a bit on Hally early.
- Using peoples posts in isolation, I don't think Ender is a wolf. I don't really thiiiink benneh is one either (talked about that a bit ago). I'm also not really sure I have Hally as a wolf (have talked about this a lot).
I think I want to just call the wolf team Mont/Barto
Good post, but I think if Barto were distancing or bussing Neb from D1-2 (premeditated), he would have done so more vigorously. Feels more like weak pseudo-distancing if m-Bart, intended to suppress the formation of associations broadly.
This is the post I was talking about. Think I villa read it initially for seeming like a real solve approach (like trying to take it from point a to point b to point c) but I think now it's just acknowledging a wolfy post and then trying to call out others from it
It's not a "wolfy post," it's just in Barto's scum meta for the way it was constructed (which no one else picked up on). Moreover, he just carried on making weak and tangential pushes with restrained analysis up to the present, also within meta. He could also just be incredibly bored I suppose.
I thought about the kill briefly. Realized there were too many factors for me to come with anything concrete from it (even mentioned I was going to ignore it). Maybe Rask died due to history with a wolf, maybe Rask died for pushing you and I'm silly, maybe it was a widely villa read thing, maybe everyone else had more suspicion on them at some point. Not really for me to know and I decided to just read people based on their posting or interactions.
well are these things true though?
- history with a wolf is possible, yes and i’ve considered that bart/mont could kill rask because they know him but if they wanna go that route zack exists and is a better kill imo
- i’m a villager so no to him dying for pushing me
- i don’t think rask was that widely town read or had less suspicion on him than zack/benneh/ender
but yeah sure, i get NKA is a dubious thing to solve around and i’m potentially being dumb
Zack, do you remember what Hally was like in your Mass Effect game? She fooled pretty much everyone. AFAICR she had ultra-pure tone, which I'm not sensing in this game.
I don't really remember it and wasn't reading the game that closely. Are you saying she is less villagy and therefore town?
well are these things true though?
- history with a wolf is possible, yes and i’ve considered that bart/mont could kill rask because they know him but if they wanna go that route zack exists and is a better kill imo
- i’m a villager so no to him dying for pushing me
- i don’t think rask was that widely town read or had less suspicion on him than zack/benneh/ender
but yeah sure, i get NKA is a dubious thing to solve around and i’m potentially being dumb
they're not MUers and I doubt you could easily map such a mindset about the n1 kill onto a team like that
Hally might be more sus than Sunbae. I don't like taking the easy route of eliminating Barto first, since there's a lot of risk that there's few associations to find, and frankly he's a less-dangerous endgame prospect; order of operations influences my approach.
but i ended up pushing vul D1, not barto so i don?t get this
also ftr i?ve never cared about not lunching lhf D1 because there?s less associations or they?re less scary in endgame or whatever, i just vote the person i think has posted the worst and if that happens to be lhf so be it
Montmorency
07-27-2022, 23:19
I don't really remember it and wasn't reading the game that closely. Are you saying she is less villagy and therefore town?
IDK. Could mean I have her pegged for a legitimate style difference, or that she's one of those natural opposite-reads for me.
Wish you had more insight on Barto's play, or even his slot's position in the wagonomics, throughout the game.
but i ended up pushing vul D1, not barto so i don?t get this
also ftr i?ve never cared about not lunching lhf D1 because there?s less associations or they?re less scary in endgame or whatever, i just vote the person i think has posted the worst and if that happens to be lhf so be it
Barto stuff isn't related to you. Though I'll note your grilling of him today comes off as authentic.
fwiw Monty's latest string of posting makes me feel better about him
good mouthfeel
hopefully he makes a poor post so I can pounce on him and save my green little booty regardless
I don't really remember it and wasn't reading the game that closely. Are you saying she is less villagy and therefore town?
“hallys posts are wolfy
so they must be a villager imo”
- visor
IDK. Could mean I have her pegged for a legitimate style difference, or that she's one of those natural opposite-reads for me.
In a more general sense I remember them being making more conventional(?) posts than here and clear X is wolfy because this, Y is towny because this, etc. and I think they were on almost every lunch in the game. They're pretty aware of that meta difference by now though, it's possible they hammed up the indecision this time to mix it up. Likely? eh
Wish you had more insight on Barto's play, or even his slot's position in the wagonomics, throughout the game.
:shrug:
Your perception of me being an uber-reader of him isn't correct, you're probably thinking of Generic Fantasy WW when I nailed him but I also pushed heavily for his death while I was alive in Star Trek and he was villa (that said I remember him doing a lot more in that game than this one).
?hallys posts are wolfy
so they must be a villager imo?
- visor
quoting from wolfchat? :magnify:
quoting from wolfchat? :magnify:
it?s a quote from cogpsy :tongue:
that visor reminded me of in wolfchat :curtain:
for ender to be a wolf I imagine his partner is someone who has been under little threat all game. he seemed pretty unconcerned with the wagons yesterday and today
Players Votes
Montmorency 2 (Sunbae, Zack)
Zack 2 (EnderWiggin, nebjiamn)
Sunbae 1 (Montmorency)
nebjiamn 1 (El Barto)
El Barto 1 (Hally)
whatthistextdo
fwiw Monty's latest string of posting makes me feel better about him
good mouthfeel
agreed btw
just gonna kill bart and hope for the best i think
Montmorency
07-27-2022, 23:36
fwiw Monty's latest string of posting makes me feel better about him
good mouthfeel
hopefully he makes a poor post so I can pounce on him and save my green little booty regardless
You don't have to pocket me, I'm not loyal.
No sexual.
In the interest of stirring the pot
Vote: Barto
when it comes down to it bart hasn’t made a single post this game that even approximates a genuine solving attempt
if he’s v we at least know the game is somewhat hard and really, his posts are indefensibly bad imo :shrug:
Vote: Barto
https://i.imgur.com/M0WIW9k.png?1
Players Votes
El Barto 3 (Hally, Montmorency, Zack)
Zack 2 (EnderWiggin, nebjiamn)
nebjiamn 1 (El Barto)
Montmorency 1 (Sunbae)
whatthistextdo
did ender elaborate on tak being in his no chop zone or whatever it was called?
El Barto
07-28-2022, 00:01
Combo of working through pairs, other peoples reads, the sheer audacity some of the posts would need in order to be wolf, the fact that hally has been consistently appearing to try and figure out alignments
You've 100% ruled out powerwolfing, right?
Montmorency
07-28-2022, 00:02
I think the way I'd say my current thoughts are: It's been floated a couple of times this game that "oh that solve is too easy" but, in the world where that solve is correct what else but this would the game look like? You have this core of Me/Ender/Hally/Neb/Zack that took hard looks at portions of that group, tried to make the arguments that wolves existed in there, and couldn't come up with any substantive arguments that felt right. It's not like we all just *wanted to villa read each other and are hoping it's right*. We fought, grilled each other, responded, worked through pairings, and came to the conclusion that we don't think the wolves are in there. We *wanted there to be wolves in there and have determined it's likely not the case*.
In essence, a group of likely villagers played well and found each other through confrontation + logic + working with each other as the game progressed and all kind of came to the conclusion that the most likely answer is just Mont/Barto. That's not "defaulting and feel bad". That's just how the game's played out.
Dislike the spurious inflation of consensus here, since at the time of this post Zack had two votes from within this group and there were plenty of other residual suspicions to be found. Tough post for towny mindset.
Unvote
El Barto
07-28-2022, 00:04
Dislike the spurious inflation of consensus here, since at the time of this post Zack had two votes from within this group and there were plenty of other residual suspicions to be found. Tough post for towny mindset.
Unvote
But still, for wagonomics, let's make it 2-2-2.
unvote
vote: Montmorency
El Barto
07-28-2022, 00:09
org on org crime
:shame:
If that's your guiding principle we can lynch nebjiamn.
did ender elaborate on tak being in his no chop zone or whatever it was called?
guess no one could help a bronana out while I was eating dinner :angry:
Oh yeah Barto exists. Can be no blast zone too for now.
this was all i found, did i miss a post after this?
guess no one could help a bronana out while I was eating dinner :angry:
this was all i found, did i miss a post after this?
i don’t think so?
If that's your guiding principle we can lynch nebjiamn.
enlighten me
I thought your whole reason for voting him was proven bunk last time you were in thread
El Barto
07-28-2022, 00:14
enlighten me
I thought your whole reason for voting him was proven bunk last time you were in thread
You were the one deploring my taking my vote off him just now.
i don’t think so?
maybe we've been overlooking ender/barto as a cromulent alternative to monty/barto
:hide:
nebjiamn
07-28-2022, 00:15
did ender elaborate on tak being in his no chop zone or whatever it was called?
unfortunately not
Montmorency
07-28-2022, 00:15
Like, I guess my thing is "if you want to say 'oh idk if mont is a wolf because why would kill rask' then take it to the next level for me and tell me who WOULD kill rask"
cause right now i think my current plan of "thats a kill that happened, moving on" is ideal but I can at least listen to what you have to say
Tidy and convenient, self-serving, handwave again. Whom does this serve? There's a set range of players who would kill Zack, it's not a great secret and has been discussed. The only optimization factor is whether the team expects to F5 or F3.
But still, for wagonomics, let's make it 2-2-2.
Good job.
Should I:
(A) Start a new wagon
(B) Hammer at the timer
(C) Let it rand
Players Votes
Montmorency 2 (Sunbae, El Barto)
El Barto 2 (Hally, Zack)
Zack 2 (EnderWiggin, nebjiamn)
whatthistextdo
You were the one deploring my taking my vote off him just now.
that's what i do. i criticize. :sneaky:
top 2 wolves, top 2 villas?
El Barto
07-28-2022, 00:17
maybe we've been overlooking ender/barto as a cromulent alternative to monty/barto
:hide:
It's gladdening to see that my vocabulary lessons are having an effect on you.
Tidy and convenient, self-serving, handwave again. Whom does this serve? There's a set range of players who would kill Zack, it's not a great secret and has been discussed. The only optimization factor is whether the team expects to F5 or F3.
Good job.
Should I:
(A) Start a new wagon
(B) Hammer at the timer
(C) Let it rand
Hmmm maybe you should just unvote, vote: Sunbae
maybe we've been overlooking ender/barto as a cromulent alternative to monty/barto
:hide:
i think ender theoretically works with either mont or barto? he’s notably not pushed either at all iirc
El Barto
07-28-2022, 00:19
that's what i do. i criticize. :sneaky:
top 2 wolves, top 2 villas?
Top two innocents
El Barto
Hally
Top two mafiats (wink):
Sunbae
EnderWiggin
Montmorency
07-28-2022, 00:19
Hmmm maybe you should just unvote, vote: Sunbae
Convince me.
nebjiamn
07-28-2022, 00:19
whats the case on cheez its?
nebjiamn
07-28-2022, 00:20
Top two innocents
El Barto
Hally
Top two mafiats (wink):
Sunbae
EnderWiggin
https://i.gifer.com/TIjY.gif
Top two innocents
El Barto
Hally
Top two mafiats (wink):
Sunbae
EnderWiggin
can you give a sentence on each?
whats the case on cheez its?
go family size or go home
El Barto
07-28-2022, 00:21
Convince me.
I'm town, so voting for me lynches a townie.
If you're town, voting for me is bad.
Also, if you're town, an alternative to either of us is good, because probabilites say that it's less likely that we'll lynch town.
You don't have to pocket me, I'm not loyal.
No sexual.
In the interest of stirring the pot
Vote: Barto
why does this read like a lost wolf signal :crazy:
i think ender theoretically works with either mont or barto? he?s notably not pushed either at all iirc
I'm not finding either of them mention him much if at all
that actually might be a bit odd if w/w if anything? :wall:
El Barto
07-28-2022, 00:23
can you give a sentence on each?
Yes.
El Barto → it's in my r?le PM
Hally → has been hunting and prodding insistently.
With Sunbae and EnderWiggin it's a bit more vague, but let's say it's a hunch.
Also whom did I include in a trio of possible mafiats with Vulgard and IIRC Hally? Sunbae?
go family size or go home
What if I prefer Doritos?
Yes.
El Barto → it's in my r?le PM
Hally → has been hunting and prodding insistently.
With Sunbae and EnderWiggin it's a bit more vague, but let's say it's a hunch.
Also whom did I include in a trio of possible mafiats with Vulgard and IIRC Hally? Sunbae?
I seriously hope this was a rhetorical question
What if I prefer Doritos?
skill issue
El Barto
07-28-2022, 00:26
I think you mixed up the replies to my two posts, Zack.
I'm not finding either of them mention him much if at all
that actually might be a bit odd if w/w if anything? :wall:
i do think it’s kinda odd for ender to not distance a bit if he’s w/w with one of them
Zack's poked at a lot of things but I never feel like he's trying hard to direct thread which implies he's comfortable with letting other people lead it which doesn't feel congruent with how town is dying right now.
Also just gut tells me he's a wolf. Which is pretty dumb.
Also I don't think Benneh is wolf with Monty and if Zack is town I'm townreading a wolf.
Not impossible but not what I'm thinking about now.
why is the bolded there?
i do think it’s kinda odd for ender to not distance a bit if he’s w/w with one of them
yeah i think you pmuch have to distance/bus to some extent
bart has been lightly wolf reading ender but not outside the realm of distancing really
mont i don’t remember saying anything about him
Could punt Monty too.
Raskol was obv town but idk why they get blasted like that, gonna check their ISO in a bit just in case.
oh i missed this
If I'm tracking it right, sunbae/hally/barto were in "no blast zone" which left me/benneh/monty
In one sense that clears it up but I'm also just confused in a different way now
Players Votes
El Barto 2 (Hally, Zack)
Zack 2 (EnderWiggin, nebjiamn)
Montmorency 1 (Sunbae)
Sunbae 1 (El Barto)
whatthistextdo
Either way I'd rather pants Barto than Monty here.
:bow:
Montmorency
07-28-2022, 00:31
bart has been lightly wolf reading ender but not outside the realm of distancing really
mont i don’t remember saying anything about him
I've had him in the nulls with non-Sun/Hally/Bart.
https://i.imgur.com/cFcDtSQ.png
El Barto
07-28-2022, 00:35
Either way I'd rather pants Barto than Monty here.
:bow:
Since I seem to be going down, you should be asking yourself for next phase why not lynch Sunbae.
I'm nto a particularly bad lynch, but still.
Also why the complete mindfuck of kiling Raskolnikov. It's not one of those weird kills that are meant to evade detection and protection as in games with powerr?les.
Unless the mafia team is Zack-Hally, why not kill either one of you?
Since I seem to be going down, you should be asking yourself for next phase why not lynch Sunbae.
I'm nto a particularly bad lynch, but still.
Also why the complete mindfuck of kiling Raskolnikov. It's not one of those weird kills that are meant to evade detection and protection as in games with powerr?les.
Unless the mafia team is Zack-Hally, why not kill either one of you?
i was major wagon D1 so i didn’t think i would ever die fwiw
El Barto
07-28-2022, 00:40
https://i.imgur.com/cFcDtSQ.png
I'm geting vibes from you that I hadn't felt since the Zack Mafia game…
unvote; vote: Zack
am i really gonna die here lol
El Barto
07-28-2022, 00:42
i was major wagon D1 so i didn?t think i would ever die fwiw
Day One is always weird because nobody has any information. Anytime past D1 I'm more lynchable than you and so is Raskolnikov and we all know it.
i’m torn between “bart’s posts are so bad and he only popped in after his wagon took off, let’s just kill him lol” and “maybe he’s twtbaw? he doesn’t seem like he’s trying to give us a reason to spare him”
idk bros
jokes on yall i'll be in dvc and you will all have 48 hours of a stressful f5 :2thumbsup:
Players Votes
Zack 3 (EnderWiggin, nebjiamn, El Barto)
El Barto 2 (Hally, Zack)
Montmorency 1 (Sunbae)
whatthistextdo
i’m not confident zack is a villager at all but lunching him over bart seems bad
Montmorency
07-28-2022, 00:45
why does this read like a lost wolf signal :crazy:
Sort of.
Barto kind of open scumming; finding his partner is the valuable solve.
Not sure there's any new information being created ITT however, other than Neb lurk at this moment of truth.
Vote: Sunbae
nebjiamn
07-28-2022, 00:45
vote: El Barto
Since I seem to be going down, you should be asking yourself for next phase why not lynch Sunbae.
I'm nto a particularly bad lynch, but still.
Also why the complete mindfuck of kiling Raskolnikov. It's not one of those weird kills that are meant to evade detection and protection as in games with powerr?les.
Unless the mafia team is Zack-Hally, why not kill either one of you?
I actually thought benneh would die fwiw
Hally was a major wagon and almsot got yeeted, sunbae was under a lot of heat d1, I looked bad after sticking my neck out to kill vulg + save hally, ender was too low impact
El Barto
07-28-2022, 00:46
why does this read like a lost wolf signal :crazy:
Either way I'd rather pants Barto than Monty here.
:bow:
So you preferred to lynch Monty rather than me even if you felt Monty was wolfy? Why?
Sort of.
Barto kind of open scumming; finding his partner is the valuable solve.
Not sure there's any new information being created ITT however, other than Neb lurk at this moment of truth.
Vote: Sunbae
sunbae is definitely not getting lunched today
Players Votes
El Barto 3 (Hally, Zack, nebjiamn)
Zack 2 (EnderWiggin, El Barto)
Montmorency 1 (Sunbae)
Sunbae 1 (Montmorency)
whatthistextdo
So you preferred to lynch Monty rather than me even if you felt Monty was wolfy? Why?
that post was a joke I thought of while looking back to see him talk about ender
obviously there is no lost wolf in the game
El Barto
07-28-2022, 00:48
vote: El Barto
Why did you upvote this post, Monty?
btw 3-3's fun.
El Barto
07-28-2022, 00:49
sunbae is definitely not getting lunched today
What if I say vote: Sunbae?
Montmorency
07-28-2022, 00:49
Why did you upvote this post, Monty?
btw 3-3's fun.
Because ninja.
I do have a very strong urge to rand Zack and Bart :eyebrows: but I'll probably just make the smart play.
What if I say vote: Sunbae?
still no
nebjiamn
07-28-2022, 00:50
im pretty good with these wagons but i'm also more scared to look zack in the eye post-game if i mislunch him here
its all fair game when i do it in f5/f3 though
El Barto
07-28-2022, 00:51
Because ninja.
I do have a very strong urge to rand Zack and Bart :eyebrows: but I'll probably just make the smart play.
I'll leave it up to you with a vote: Zack, but when I'm revealed as town nebjiamn looks bad and I'd say you should look at Zack-nebjiamn interactions.
Players Votes
El Barto 3 (Hally, Zack, nebjiamn)
Zack 2 (EnderWiggin, El Barto)
Sunbae 1 (Montmorency)
Montmorency 1 (Sunbae)
whatthistextdo
sniped
i don’t know why bart and mont are so fixated on sunbae being a wolf
neither of them have ever explained it really
El Barto
07-28-2022, 00:52
Yay, managed to ninja the GM. My personal objectives for this game are complete.
if barto flips red here i'd take a hard look at his sunbae votes as potential distancing fwiw, that would be in his style
I actually thought benneh would die fwiw
Hally was a major wagon and almsot got yeeted, sunbae was under a lot of heat d1, I looked bad after sticking my neck out to kill vulg + save hally, ender was too low impact
I thought there was a chance I died to specific wolf teams but thought Ender was most likely followed by benneh
welp, hope this is right
i have a sinking feeling i’m making a mistake here but w/e
Montmorency
07-28-2022, 00:55
What if I say vote: Sunbae?
Who was this supposed to signal, to any plausible degree? I was already voting there.
Vote: El Barto
Might as well bandwagon.
Vote: Barto
if barto flips red here i'd take a hard look at his sunbae votes as potential distancing fwiw, that would be in his style
nah
nebjiamn
07-28-2022, 00:55
i didnt think about the game after vulgard flipped
Players Votes
El Barto 5 (Hally, Zack, nebjiamn, Sunbae, Montmorency)
Zack 2 (EnderWiggin, El Barto)
whatthistextdo
barto/mont interactions this EoD have been weird but not sure if it’s in a w/w way
deserves a look over if bart flips red
nebjiamn
07-28-2022, 00:58
gl
only one today not two
El Barto
07-28-2022, 00:58
I just want to find 11,780 votes.
barto/mont interactions this EoD have been weird but not sure if it’s in a w/w way
deserves a look over if bart flips red
gut says more likely w!bart dancing around v!mont but not sure
Montmorency
07-28-2022, 00:58
I just want to find 11,780 votes.
Let me just pull in some "fake electors" from the Backroom.
gut says more likely w!bart dancing around v!mont but not sure
would agree
gut says more likely w!bart dancing around v!mont but not sure
if wolf im chopping mont -> neb i think
El Barto
07-28-2022, 00:59
barto/mont interactions this EoD have been weird but not sure if it’s in a w/w way
deserves a look over if bart flips red
And if, or rather when, Barto flips town?
btw all these people coming out of the woodwork to lynch my poor self…
nebjiamn
07-28-2022, 01:00
if wolf im chopping mont -> neb i think
da fuq?
Montmorency
07-28-2022, 01:00
if wolf im chopping mont -> neb i think
Heck no and no.
thats my legacy:
Barto wolf -> mont -> if game not over neb
nebjiamn
07-28-2022, 01:00
leave hally alone tomorrow
ender dyin tonight
El Barto
07-28-2022, 01:01
thats my legacy:
Barto wolf -> mont -> if game not over neb
What legacy? I'm the one who's dying here!
Fish Finger of Suspicion: Sunbae
day over stop posting
Players Votes
El Barto 5 (Hally, Zack, nebjiamn, Sunbae, Montmorency)
Zack 2 (EnderWiggin, El Barto)
whatthistextdo
10 mins for corrections
El Barto
07-28-2022, 01:03
Goodbye, cruel thread. I'll be laughing at you in the Mafia QuickTopic?.
El Barto
07-28-2022, 01:18
10 mins for corrections
Must be this inflation thing.
El Barto has been killed. They were Vanilla Town.
Night ends in 24 hours at 8pm Thursday the 28th of July.
Alive: (6/9)
1. Hally
3. Sunbae
4. nebjiamn
6. Montmorency
7. EnderWiggin
9. Zack
Dead: (3/9)
5. Vulgard, Vanilla Town, died D1.
2. Raskolnikov, Vanilla Town, killed N1.
8. El Barto, Vanilla Town, died D2.
nebjiamn has been killed. They were Vanilla Town.
Day ends in 48 hours at 8pm Saturday the 30th of July. There are no locked votes or majority, whoever has the most votes at end of day dies.
Alive: (5/9)
1. Hally
3. Sunbae
6. Montmorency
7. EnderWiggin
9. Zack
Dead: (4/9)
5. Vulgard, Vanilla Town, died D1.
2. Raskolnikov, Vanilla Town, killed N1.
8. El Barto, Vanilla Town, died D2.
4. nebjiamn, Vanilla Town, killed N2.
Montmorency
07-29-2022, 00:51
Yeah, he must have been bored, son of a gun. We're in a hard place. Villains must be between Zack-Hally-Sunbae after all, but it's too complicated to say who the false positive is.
We have to be unified in the vote.
damn, i should have wolf read benneh more so i’d die instead :shame:
i’m really tired today so doubt i’ll do much til tomorrow
Alright. I'm going to take a step back and start from scratch. While I still have ideas lingering I'm going to reread the entire thread with fresh eyes and see what all fits together. I am going to be as transparent as possible about my process here:
- I'll be spending the majority of my time in the first 12 hours reading rather than posting.
- I know the answer is one of Ender/Hally, Ender/Mont, Ender/Zack, Hally/Mont, Hally/Zack, and Mont/Zack. I will be strengthening the threshold for removing w/w pairs from these groups during my reread. Solving just a couple of these as not-paired makes the game immensely easier but I can't rule out things lightly.
- Now that there are more data points with nightkills, I will see if there's a common thread between their posts before they died (either obviously or as a second tier thought).
- I will try and work through the answer of ?what was their plan if they were the team? for each team.
- While I am doing that, I'll be looking at the posts on an individual level to see who was consistently solving, who was just piling on, and who was just twiddling their thumbs/spinning their wheels while we chopped villagers back to back. Also, who seems to be trying to set themselves up to be "correct" once it happens.
- I want to check if there are any pairs that seem to continuously be on the other side of arguments from each other, as that seems like a pretty good plan for wolves in v/v days.
- I will also be looking for people that seem to pile on or adjust their reads with the flow of the thread rather than having their own thoughts/opinions. I think this will be the key one but we know now that at no point were wolves really concerned near eods as both were runaway villager wagons.
- Try to put all of these pieces together in a nice, neat, orderly manner that others can follow
- I will then be posting more tomorrow afternoon/evening. That'll be my prime posting time where I'll lay out all of my things.
I will be entirely unavailable Saturday. Which means we're going to need to have our decision made in the overnight phase on Friday. I will make my vote then and hope that I'm both correct and that the villagers agree with me.
My biggest thing today is that half of you are wolves and I'm not going to listen to a single thing you say today. The wolves simply need to get one incorrect vote and purposefully brought all of us together to the end because they didn't think we'd be able to avoid that. So I will live in the past ? where all the information is ? and then make my vote instead of basing it on t0an or ate or ?seems villagery? posting today from potential wolves that are close to a win. Then it's up to the other villagers to vote with or against me.
I will also take a moment to try and lay out all the reasons why I think I'm findable as a villager:
- I have, clearly, been on my own this game. There have been no pocketing attempts, no persuasion, no trying to get others to follow me. I did not at any point try to convince someone else to vote Hally, to vote Vulgard, to vote Mont, or to vote Bart with me. I laid out my reasons for voting where I did and just voted there.
- At no point have I made any posts that are designed to make people look favorably to me. There is no agenda where I'm trying to look good for future days. I haven't been second guessing villager wagons, I haven't been defending LHF even when they are clearly going to die, and I have made any elaborate cases to really hammer home why people should vote with me. I have done with while dealing with constant pressure from the get go and as a wolf I would need to be trying to dismantle that pressure somehow. Instead I've just continued doing what I've been doing because I think I'm correct.
- I think it's clear that I'm also alone in this game. I am not on the same page this game with anybody. There's nothing to show some macro plan for pushing the game in a direction I want with another player.
- When people were giving me crap about memeing too much, I didn't say "oh no I'm looking bad let me back off". I just started to meme harder. I don't care about my thread position or how I'm viewed in the grand scheme of things. Granted, this one might end up biting me in the ass here if I'm the game losing chop but I do think it's villagery.
Basically, my approach is that of villager me and I think I'm findable here.
I am now out until at least the overnight phase and most likely tomorrow afternoon.
sunbae, did you just write both of those walls?
Yeah, he must have been bored, son of a gun. We're in a hard place. Villains must be between Zack-Hally-Sunbae after all, but it's too complicated to say who the false positive is.
We have to be unified in the vote.
why not ender?
the day i prewrite a wall is the day i want you to forcibly stop me from playing
oh i didn?t realize the flip was posted 20 min early and just saw the :06 timestamp on the first wall and was :stare: at you writing all that in 6 minutes
oh i didn?t realize the flip was posted 20 min early and just saw the :06 timestamp on the first wall and was :stare: at you writing all that in 6 minutes
where you at hally?
Yeah, he must have been bored, son of a gun. We're in a hard place. Villains must be between Zack-Hally-Sunbae after all, but it's too complicated to say who the false positive is.
We have to be unified in the vote.
can you explain your worldview to me?
eating an entire pizza, will type up some stuff when I'm done
where you at hally?
eating dinner
i have some nebulous thoughts but i need to reread to solidify them and that’s not gonna happen tonight cuz i’m too tired
eating dinner
i have some nebulous thoughts but i need to reread to solidify them and that’s not gonna happen tonight cuz i’m too tired
:computer:
I was just oging to post my nebulous thoughts and re-read later
thats my legacy:
Barto wolf -> mont -> if game not over neb
Sunbae I know you said you weren't gonna be around much or paying attention to today's posts but can you walk me through this thought process when you have a chance? if anything at the time I was thinking monty and benneh were among the least likely barto partners
in the moment during EOD my read on monty almost entirely flipped. I thought he made some solid posts, and when the wagons were me/him he tried to get me+others to move onto barto instead of trying to bury me, which I figured pointed to him being genuinely suspicious of barto and wanting to flip him. overnight I was thinking about what the game would look like if Monty was a villager, and I'm pretty sure it was one where the wolves were complacent d2 and not overly concerned which of barto/me/monty died. benneh didn't strike me as complacent and he made some good posts (insert grumbling about some of his conclusions re: me :stare:) I thought. Sunbae has kinda been in his corner doing his own thing all game, I know he is a good wolf and capable of convincing fake thoughts, but I'm not really seeing it and "his posts are fine, but he's a good wolf!" ain't doin it for me, that's not good enough. Also kinda pocketed by how he came in to vote Barto (p sure if he was a wolf he'd have just stayed away and hoped I managed to go over instead) and seemed pretty serious about the legacy post even if I'm not sure how he got there.
Which left hally/ender, which I think makes sense in a lot of ways. Obvious reason to kill rask (dunno about benneh, havent looked into that yet), especially since iirc after I mentioned my reading of that rask post - the one where he was like "I'll have words with ender if vulgard is town" - as being more of a "I still think he's town but I'll scold him for saving Hally who I think is a wolf," hally reacted like they hadn't considered it from that angle. So maybe they misinterpreted it (or correctly interpreted it and I'm wrong lol) as a burgeoning wolfread on ender after vulgard flipped, and obviously Rask was telegraphing an incoming Hally tunnel. Primo kill target. Hally makes a billion posts about how the kill makes no sense and not coming to any real conclusion about it that I recall, they both top town Sunbae to pocket him and try to shut down his d1 suspicion of Hally from resurfacing, Ender announces a no blast zone and lumps Hally with two villas (strong villa sunbae who no one really suspected anymore and was posting well, and Barto who was likely ml bait) and throws sus on me based on a vibe tell and claiming I had no clear stances d1 (which seemed clearly untrue fmpov and possibly even designed to bait me into bringing up how I defended hally and pushed for vulgard again, though that's maybe a bit tinfoily). Sorry for rambling, I think there was more to it which seemed obviously brilliant at the time but that was the main gist.
BUT
:hide:
I almost immediately started doubting this when I saw Monty's nothing burger of an SOD post where he still hasn't really explained why he thinks the wolves are in that group then peacing out (and agree with hally that not mentioning ender was odd). Made me wonder if I misread Monty's EOD and got carried away focusing on the Rask nk pointing at Hally, when in theory I think ender/monty makes sense? And I have a sinking feeling that bladescape is wolfin' and just got cleared for bad reasons for doing something that is not really that difficult to do as a wolf. Maybe this team was worried about the me/sunbae/benneh squad finding each other in f5 and forming a voting bloc and decided to break it up - I was under too much suspicion to be killed, Sunbae didn't have as much threadpull as benneh (who does) and was possibly likelier to get distracted going after hally again? idk, have to go soon and won't be able to seriously post for awhile after but wanted to get this out there first (though I was hoping hally/monty would respond to my questions first to avoid letting them tailor their answers to what I posted but w/e)
also I touched on sunbae/hally as a possibility a bit yesterday and came away thinking it didn't make a ton of sense despite some things giving me pause. It's still a possibility for how they ended up not really threatening each other at all when it mattered and eventually moved to seemingly confident townreads on the other, I guess, but I don't think this is a winnable game state fmpov even if it is true so long hair dont care for now
also one more important thing I want to say before I go, one sec
Zack is townbronana from the syndicate
You know I'm town right?ZACK = VILLAGER
sponge my reads
plz no bully
ZACK IS TOWN DONT MISYEET HIM
Which left hally/ender, which I think makes sense in a lot of ways. Obvious reason to kill rask (dunno about benneh, havent looked into that yet), especially since iirc after I mentioned my reading of that rask post - the one where he was like "I'll have words with ender if vulgard is town" - as being more of a "I still think he's town but I'll scold him for saving Hally who I think is a wolf," hally reacted like they hadn't considered it from that angle. So maybe they misinterpreted it (or correctly interpreted it and I'm wrong lol) as a burgeoning wolfread on ender after vulgard flipped, and obviously Rask was telegraphing an incoming Hally tunnel. Primo kill target. Hally makes a billion posts about how the kill makes no sense and not coming to any real conclusion about it that I recall, they both top town Sunbae to pocket him and try to shut down his d1 suspicion of Hally from resurfacing, Ender announces a no blast zone and lumps Hally with two villas (strong villa sunbae who no one really suspected anymore and was posting well, and Barto who was likely ml bait) and throws sus on me based on a vibe tell and claiming I had no clear stances d1 (which seemed clearly untrue fmpov and possibly even designed to bait me into bringing up how I defended hally and pushed for vulgard again, though that's maybe a bit tinfoily). Sorry for rambling, I think there was more to it which seemed obviously brilliant at the time but that was the main gist.
ngl the bolded is kinda hilarious as a thought
i?m just imagining myself wolfing with ender and accidentally spewing that we killed rask by misreading his post
(i?m 99% sure that if i was wolfing with ender and interpreted that post as a wolf read on him i would never draw attention both to that but it is possible that ender is a wolf who also misinterpreted the post and that?s why rask died)
also i object to the idea that i didn’t draw a conclusion from my NKA
i brought up over and over that it didn’t make any sense for a bart/mont team to kill rask and kept reminding people that rask was the only person all of D1 to town read bart
obviously i didn’t end up sticking with clearing bart off NKA because he was posting like… whatever that was but i did come to a correct conclusion about it and repeated it numerous times but you and sunbae poopoo’d it :shrug:
not that i?m blaming either of you for not putting stock into it if you?re villagers but like, my conclusion was pretty plain and i said it more than once
just because nobody cared about it doesn?t mean it didn?t exist
also i’m not sure what you think i’d be doing as a wolf by bringing up over and over how rask wolf read me and town read bart
there’s no reason i’d have to say the NK looked good for bart / didn’t seem to make sense for a bart/mont team
i could easily have not included that part of the NKA if i was a wolf and/or not repeated it once nobody cared the first time
wifom, etc but i think my NKA was some of my villageriest posting because you can clearly see i don’t have an agenda and am just stumbling around aimlessly trying to figure shit out after something happened that didn’t make sense fmpov
i guess i’ll just say my preliminary thoughts are that zack/ender and sunbae/mont don’t work, and if that’s correct these pairs are left
sunbae/zack
sunbae/ender
mont/ender
mont/zack
which means that fmpov there are two difference checks and the solve is 1 of zack/ender + 1 of sunbae/mont
i realize this is not groundbreaking stuff but it’s all my brain can muster rn
tomorrow i’ll reread and double check this / see if i feel like i can rule out any other pairs / try to decide who i think is more villagery in each difference check if i feel like those hold up
if neither of the two pairs i ruled out are the team and i can clear just one of you i can vote the other person in your difference check
currently i’m leaning on that clear being sunbae which would make mont a wolf if i’ve got things right but even sunbae has things that give me pause so idk
gonna stop posting useless drivel now
:sleeping:
Sunbae I know you said you weren't gonna be around much or paying attention to today's posts but can you walk me through this thought process when you have a chance? if anything at the time I was thinking monty and benneh were among the least likely barto partners
If my worldview was correct that Mont/Barto were the wolves then yesterday was bussing day for them. I read every interaction between them at that eod and that was my legacy to say that in the event Barto flipped wolf and I died, I was telling you that the eod posts don't deter me. If that ends up being wrong, I go back to Neb/Barto interactions on day 1 where me/hally/vulgard are the wagons all day and Barto focuses on Neb with a vanity vote and think that's the answer (i talked about barto/neb interaction in my pair posts).
tfw hally and zack are both spewing me as their partners so i get lunched at f5 for being the best lunch among the 3 of us since i fit on both teams
:laugh4::rolleyes: :help:
:thinking2:
(i am the guy with the help sign)
(and also the bubble thinking guy)
(they are the bad guys on the left)
:gah:
(I have begun my reread and I will be showing my work as I work through things because I refuse to be the final kill here)
i?m kinda ??? at you wolf reading barto for that because it doesn?t seem AI?
i also don?t get how you?re jumping to the sunbae and zack pairings based on what seems like a very thin read on page 1
but maybe it?s villagery eagerness? idk lol
I am basically going to be going through this thread and try to view things from different angles/possibilities as I go. These are not my final thoughts/leans or anything until I actually say that I am drawing conclusions. Yes, in all of these "the poster could just be a villager" is assumed and not discussed. That's the prefix for the next however many posts you see.
-> This post towards mont make sense as w/w interactions? Maybe i guess? Light disagreement followed by a v read and kinda weird "idk lol" tacked onto the end. Could be an attempt to start pocketing me/zack by quick defenses.
-> This post make sense if Hally W, me/zack/mont villa? Not really I don't think. I could see so if it ended with suspicion on Mont but going for the villa read on Mont and soft defense of me/zack is just backing yourself into a corner early in a 9er.
-> This post make sense as Hally W, Zack W, me/mont villa? Maybe? Tying me/Zack together in villagery terms and then villa reading Mont trying to start a town core with us 4 or something?
guy who is infamously inscrutable and ml bait in games made a weird post and you had a bunch of posts pressing him about it and end with a hedge
:shrug:
Zack immediately coming at Hally a bit but I'm not so sure it means much. Defense of Mont could be a quick way to defend a teammate from a strong villager poking at them. Don't think it does anything to dismiss Hally/Zack pairings as it's dropped pretty quickly and not followed up on in either direction (Hally eventually comes at me a bit)
RP aside (barto does random stuff like that all the time so shrug) #16 just didn't make any sense as a response to sunbae afaict, rp or not. am i missing something obvious?
I was wondering if it was a forced interaction with his bro and just ended up coming out weird.
Barto/Me being v/v. turning the focus of Hally from mont to me/bart maybe?
i thought barto?s opening was weird too and was gonna vote him or ask if he was posting like he usually does but i didn?t feel like breaking up the shitposting
but i missed that he was apparently roleplaying a newbie and i feel like the weirdness can just be attributed to the roleplay coming off awkwardly, and again that doesn?t feel AI to me
i thought that post was wolfy before knowing he was role playing because yeah, it felt like a really out of place question
but i can see the awkwardness being part of the schtick? idk tbh i don?t really know how to parse it because i don?t know what?s done intentionally as part of the roleplay and what?s an actual post
like, independent of the roleplay i don?t know why a wolf would make that post because the question obviously doesn?t follow and it feels too wolfy for even a wolf just going through the motions to think is a good thing to post so i assume that the badness is part of the roleplay and not AI
idk maybe that?s thinking about it wrong but i?d rather just wait for him to post normally and see
"thought bartos post was weird" -> "thought bartos post was wolfy" -> "idk why a wolf would make that post"
Is this rapid fluctuation signs of a villager working through things or a wolf flailing to some heat? I think Hally has really felt uncomfortable in this exchange and I need to figure out if it's a.) villager confusion about whats happened in the early stages and weird posts they are finding difficult to parse, b.) a wolf getting brushed back by a villager and being comfortable, or c.) a wolf just struggling to know what to say in a w/w interaction
ooo, this is spicy though
i came away from my exchange with sunbae with a gut wolf read too, so kinda curious if you can put your feeling into words
why?
snipping this towards vulgard, who voted me. Also right after benneh suggested a wolf read on me. Hally had not expressed any concerns with me prior to this? Keep an eye on if they piggyback off of villagers more moving forward.
Also want to keep an eye on the Hally/Zack interactions, as Hally using Zack to defend themselves here might be notewworthy, but idk if its more likely to be w/w or using a villagers read to look better yet
yeah, agreed
i also didn?t like how after i corrected him on getting some things wrong in my posts he just left it there, whereas i feel like if v!sunbae had a wolf read on me he felt good about and then i told him he was mixing stuff up in my posts he would go back, read them again and then say ?alright, after rereading my read on hally is now X?
something something lacking villagery curiosity
i just wonder if w!him found someone he thought he could push convincingly then was caught off guard by how i responded so he got stuck and just dropped it
:wall:
So like, rereading through things so far this was the section of the game where I found Hally wolfy and with the power of hindsight and flips I think past me was correct to find these posts "poo poo". At some point I change my mind and we'll see if I feel past me was correct there too
:yes:
this to neb calling zack villagery :sweatdrop:
why did that change your mind? a bunch of posts and a thousand words to just say "idk vibes" afaict
I think if the team is Hally/Zack, they had the express intent from the get go to interact in a mildly combative way and to continue it across multiple interactions through day 1. Which usually isn't the way I'd expect the wolves to act, but, you know f5 means threshold has to be raised.
hally and benneh seem reasonably villagy so far
Barros post where he voted sunbae hit some good tonal markers for him but some of his other posts (and lack of certain things) feels a bit off.
ender and monty - need to see more to have a real opinion, it was fine I guess
sunbae idk if I just gut disliked him calling me/benneh w/w because of my own narcissism, but I don't really care for it. :stare: I agree the way he dropped the hally stuff was a little strange.
vulgard is not really saying much of substance and he is using a lot of words to do it
rask ain't here :(
Is the part about me an attempt to tie me/hally together in case Hally flips? Is it just piling on to early suspicion of me? Or is it just a reasonable take at this time cause I know Neb had a similar thought (and hally too if its zack w/hally v)
yeah this
(kinda fair point to sunbae wrt vulgard getting treated differently for similar thing but that was specifically a vulgard-specific read that hally was making (specifically))
potentially peacekeeping v/v violence?
Ender but it might be bad
mont i think for the way they showed skepticism for bartos post and then tried to take it to the next level about how it relates to other people (me for how barto was talking, you for how you didnt pick up on it). can follow the threads in a way i think shows someone actually thinking from point a to b and how its connected
was past me goat or woat
Ender but it might be bad
mont i think for the way they showed skepticism for bartos post and then tried to take it to the next level about how it relates to other people (me for how barto was talking, you for how you didnt pick up on it). can follow the threads in a way i think shows someone actually thinking from point a to b and how its connected
i agree with v reading mont i think, though it’s kinda light
think wolf reading barto and then taking the extra step to look at how he’s interacting with people, while pretty thin in substance, is more likely a over eager villager
wish there was more to go on though
This is literally repeating what I said using slightly different words so the teacher doesn't recognize the plagiarism. Are you trying to pocket me, defend Mont, or are you voting me as a villager while regurgitating my own reads towards me?
Zack is wolf :)
Calling out Zack while the thread is blowing each other up with me/vulgard/hally/mont/barto stuff doesn't seem like a very w/w thing to do
the sassy "wolfy pop in hehehehe" after the unexplained vote just rustled my jimmies after getting railroaded for no real reason as soon as the game started in the two turbos i played this week after not playing any mafia for months (one of which ended right before your push)
i just want to play more relaxed and not get my bum relentlessly roasted for not tryharding :sweatdrop:
you normally this trolly as town? it's reminding me of how you played the sorc game
dont think this is a w/w response to enders bringing him up out of nowhere
if at first you don't succeed, try try again?
giving me shit for voting hally again
My big time big brain thought after seeing Zack, Hally, and Ender all start clearing me in a row is that I was about to be the night kill and they gave up on pushing me (considering I know 100% there is at least 1 wolf in that group) only for Rask to come in and do something to jump over me.
sbpcbwwe
is this a cheeky post as hally is wolf posting as top poster?
This is literally repeating what I said using slightly different words so the teacher doesn't recognize the plagiarism. Are you trying to pocket me, defend Mont, or are you voting me as a villager while regurgitating my own reads towards me?
(not actually here but just ftr, i had the read before you said it
what i said in my post is what i meant by “maybe it’s villagery eagerness”)
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