XVI -XVII mod [Archive] - Page 2

Dead Moroz

06-03-2004, 21:09

I made descriptions for some of Russian units.

Russian Nobles Cavalry - Russian Znat. 40 men in squad. It must be expensive and elite unit. Armoured, with shield, armed with sabre and bow (pistols since XVII century).
Description:

Russian Znat
Znat was the highest class of Russian society. They had the best weapons and decorated heavy armour; their horses were decorated too. Znat began battle shooting arrows in enemies. This cavalry's charge was very strong but they were not suited for long fight.

Special characteristics:
- Excellent charge
- Undisciplined

---------------------------------------------------

Pomestnaya Cavalry (or just Russian Cavalry). 40-60 men in squad. I'm still not sure how to call this cavalry. Because Russian Nobles Cavalry is the part of pomestnaya cavalry too (talking historically accurately); but Nobles are special small part of pomestnaya cavalry with better armour and weapon. So you can call this unit Pomestnaya Cavalry (if you want it to sounds more Russian) or Russian Cavalry. Both names are alright.
Description:

Pomestnaya Cavalry
Pomestnaya Cavalry was the backbone of Russian army in XV-XVII centuries. It consisted of people who owned land (pomest'e) for their service. Their armour was tegilyay - long short-sleeved quilted wear with stand-up collar - and cotton cap with chain-mail lining. They was armed with bows and spear or sovna (weapon with long wide curved one-sided blade), rich cavalrymen had sabre. Pomestnaya Cavalry attacked enemy by disorderly screaming croud to the sounds of horns and drums. It was hard to stand up against their charge but if their attack failed Pomestnaya Cavalry could even flee the battlefield.

Special characteristics:
- Excellent charge
- Undisciplined
- Poor moral
- Bonus vs armoured units (if you'll arm P.C. with sovnas)

---------------------------------------------------

Russian Royal Bodyguards (Rynda - sing., Ryndy - plur.). It's unit of Russian tsars and heirs (20 men in squad). I think they must be cavalrymen with dismount option. In mounted state they must be like Russian Nobles (armour, sabre, shield) but with greater statistics. In dismounted state they are axemen dressed like shown on pic I posted on page 5 of this thread.
Description:

Ryndy
Ryndy were bodyguards and armour-bearers of Russian tsars and grand princes. They accompanied tsar in trips and campaigns. During palace ceremonies ryndy were armed with big decorated axe - posolski topor - and stood on each side of throne.

To be continued... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Eastside Character

06-03-2004, 21:11

I think this mod will need new portraits, preferably different for every faction. I already found a set of pictures of Ottoman Sultans, and I'm going to make portraits using them. If you can provide appropriate pictures for any faction (starting from leader portraits), send them to me and I'll make portraits. Soon you'll see something.

Regards,
EC

SwordsMaster

06-04-2004, 13:50

EC, I just shipped you a huge amount of pics. The ones labelled with names are kings/princesses, and the units (mostly from figures) are labelled (unit type_century). There are about 20 pics, so it might take a while...

Regards

SwordsMaster

06-04-2004, 14:15

hey, EC, just realized that i dont have your email... So I sent the pics to Hetman... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif mistake....

Trax

06-04-2004, 14:29

Portraits of French monarchs
Louis XI (http://www.netprovence.com/tourisme/histoire/images/15louis11.jpg)

Charles VIII (http://www.culture.fr/Wave/image/joconde/0016/m502004_98de1149_p.jpg)

Louis XII (http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/LouisXIIofFrance.jpg)

Francois I (http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/c/clouet/jean/francois.jpg)

Henri II (http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/diller/frw3100/Henri_II.jpg)

Francois II (http://www.ac-bordeaux.fr/Etablissement/MCNerac/francoi2.jpg)

Charles IX (http://www.publius-historicus.com/Images/charles9.jpg)

Henri III (http://www.ac-bordeaux.fr/Etablissement/MCNerac/henri3.jpg)

Henri IV (http://www.infojunior.com/images/images/histoire/pic/H4.jpg)

Louis XIII (http://www.trcollins.freeserve.co.uk/King%20Louis%20XIII.jpg)

Louis XIV (http://www.newgenevacenter.org/portrait/louis-xiv.jpg)

edit:

i´ll add few alternative monarchs too to get longer list and more variety.

Gaston d´Orleans, brother of Louis XIII (http://www.kipar.org/resources/resources-images/paintings/early/gaston.jpg)

The Great Dauphin, the son of Louis XIV (http://platea.pntic.mec.es/~cvera/aplicacion/telemaque/histoire/grdofch.jpg)

Philippe d´Orleans, brother of Louis XIV (http://www.abi01.de/history/Family/Phil-port2S.jpg)

Trax

06-04-2004, 16:46

Next Scotland, I hope the mod has a Scottish faction http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

James III (http://www.legenca.freeserve.co.uk/monarchs/james3.jpg)

James IV (http://www.legenca.freeserve.co.uk/monarchs/james4.jpg)

James V (http://www.nwlink.com/~scotlass/jamesv2.jpg)

Mary (http://www.nwlink.com/~scotlass/mary2.jpg)
Although I don´t think we can´t have any queens, do we?

James VI (http://www.jaffebros.com/lee/gulliver/history/jamesI.jpeg)

Charles I (http://www.marxists.org/archive/hill-christopher/pics/charles1.jpg)

Charles II (http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/STUcharles2.jpg)

James VII (http://www.limerickcorp.ie/graphics/content_area/montages/history_james2.jpg)

And to increase the number of portraits
the son of James VII
James VIII (http://www.unionofthecrowns.com/RB/images/thumb/0114/01140054.jpg)

Trax

06-04-2004, 19:32

And now we go to the other edge of the continent.

Russian monarchs

Ivan III (http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory/rulers/ivan3.jpg)
Sadly I don´t think that there is any coloured picture of him.

Vasili III (http://pandora.cii.wwu.edu/vajda/russ110/images/kremlinpic2.jpg)

Ivan IV (http://www.cnit.uniyar.ac.ru/yaros/images1/person/grozni.jpg)

Feodor I (http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory/rulers/feodoris.jpg)

Boris Godunov (http://www.wellesley.edu/Russian/tsari/moskovskie%20kniazia%20i%20tsari/boris-godunov.jpg)

Feodor II (http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory/rulers/feodgud.jpg)

Vasili IV Shuisky (http://members.tripod.com/elianna2000/images/chap__11.gif)

Mikhail Romanov (http://www.educ.cc.keio.ac.jp/~te04811/mikhail%20romanov.jpg)

Alexey Mikhailovich (http://www.spbumag.nw.ru/Nikon/Alex.jpg)

Feodor Alekseevich (http://www.museum.com.ua/project/oldodessa/ant_otkr/romanov/small/03.gif)
He is clearly too young in this picture.
Maybe you can do something with this black and white image. (http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory/rulers/feodora.jpg)
Or this one, this is clearly not authentic though. (http://www.lacquerbox.com/tsfa2.jpg)

Ivan V (http://historiska-personer.nu/1600-1799/pictures/romanov%20ivan%20v%20aleksejevitj%201666-1696.jpg)

Peter I (http://www.abcgallery.com/R/rossika/tannauer1.JPG)

SwordsMaster

06-04-2004, 23:09

I have been thinking about the merc trade good ad these are the provs I think should have it:

Portugal,Naples, Genoa, Malta, Tunisia or Algiers, Istanbul, Crimea/Crym, Livonia, Ireland (exotic -american- units maybe?), Switzerland, Prussia, [one Dutch province here].

Also we would haveto distinguish between different types, so say Crimea or Istambul would be unlikely to build reitars, and Portugal wouldnt build Jenissaries.

And I also thought about some units such as Colonial warriors, which would be a unit suited for fighting in the desert, with poor organization and available to the countries with lots of colonies (maybe dependant on the East Indies Company building or something).

Anyways thats all,
Regards.

wilpuri

06-05-2004, 10:47

Swedish Monarchs

*Hans
http://www.tacitus.nu/images/kungar/Hans.jpg

1497-1501

*Kristian II
http://www.tacitus.nu/images/kungar/Kristian%20II.jpg

1520-1521

Gustav Vasa
http://www.tacitus.nu/images/kungar/Gustav%20Vasa.jpg

1496-1560

Erik XIV
http://www.tacitus.nu/images/kungar/Erik%20XIV.jpg

1560-1568

Johan III
http://www.tacitus.nu/images/kungar/Johan%20III.jpg

1568-1592

Sigismund
http://www.tacitus.nu/images/kungar/Sigismund.jpg

1592-1599

Karl IX
http://www.tacitus.nu/images/kungar/Karl%20IX.jpg

1604-1611

Gustav II Adolf
http://www.tacitus.nu/images/kungar/Gustav%20II%20Adolf.jpg

1611-1632

Kristina
http://www.tacitus.nu/images/kungar/Kristina.jpg

1632-1654

Karl X Gustav
http://www.tacitus.nu/images/kungar/Karl%20X%20Gustav.jpg

1654-1660

Karl XI
http://www.tacitus.nu/images/kungar/Karl%20XI.jpg

1660-1697

Karl XII
http://www.tacitus.nu/images/kungar/Karl%20XII.jpg

1697-1718

*The two first are Danish Kings of the Kalmar Union.

Trax

06-05-2004, 11:18

Maybe we could ignore the Danish monarchs and use the Stures instead?

Sten Sture the Elder (http://www.smb.nu/images/svenskakrig/09003.jpg)

Svante Sture (http://www.smb.nu/images/svenskakrig/10001.jpg)

Sten Sture the Younger (http://www.sub.su.se/national/bsture7.jpg)

Eastside Character

06-05-2004, 13:13

Trax, Wilpuri, thank you both for providing the pictures. I'm not going to use them all tho, as some of them are of considerably lower quality than others. Luckily, I've found good replacements for those low quality pics (actually pictures of the same monarchs, but better versions).

Regards,
EC

Trax

06-05-2004, 13:40

Well some pics are indeed of low quality. I tried to give contemporary images whenever possible, so it is quite natural.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

BTW, you still need more pics for more countries, right?

Eastside Character

06-05-2004, 14:08

Quote[/b] (Trax @ June 05 2004,07:40)]BTW, you still need more pics for more countries, right?
Yes, I need more. For king's portraits I think we first should use portraits of kings there really were, then if we need more, we can use portraits of their brothers, uncles, so other royals. The page with portraits is now updated, portraits of Swedish (10) and French (also 10) monarchs have been added. In case a ruler wasn't an adult, don't post such pictures, as they're not going to be used. I'm not ging to make black-and-white portraits either, so if you have only such pics, I'll probably either not use it, or try to colorize it.

Regards,
EC

SwordsMaster

06-05-2004, 15:21

EC, Hetman has a lot of pics that you will need for units and kings, among them a reasonable Encamisado, which was REALLY hard to find.

So Hetman if you can, send that email to EC, as I dont have his email address.

Regards.:cowboy:

Trax

06-05-2004, 17:58

Portuguese kings http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif

Afonso V (http://en.wikipedia.org/upload/7/7f/AfonsoV-P.jpg) The mod begins 1480, right?

Joao II (http://en.wikipedia.org/upload/b/bb/JoaoII-P.jpg)

Manuel I (http://en.wikipedia.org/upload/6/6b/ManuelI-P.jpg)

Joao III (http://www.arqnet.pt/imagens/ip3-djoao3.jpg)

Sebastiao I (http://atelier.hannover2000.mct.pt/~pr380/images/sebast1.gif)

Henrique I (http://www.lisest.org/portugal-henrique.jpg)

Now we have some Spanish monarchs in the list, I will not post their pictures right now.

Joao IV (http://genroy.free.fr/joaoIV.jpg)

Afonso VI (http://www.malhatlantica.pt/mediateca/Afonso_VI.jpg)

Pedro II (http://www.info-regenten.de/regent/regent-d/pictures/portugal-pedro2.jpg)
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

edit: fixed names and pictures http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-toff.gif

SwordsMaster

06-05-2004, 18:31

@Trax

You have Pedro II under both Pedro II and Alfonso VI. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

Trax

06-05-2004, 19:14

@Eastside Character

BTW I made an alternative image of Henri IV based on the picture I gave above. IMHO it seems to be much better painting from a much more skillful artist. The one you used is like painted in a century older style.
http://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/11346/Henri%20IV%7E0.jpg

Otherwise very fine job http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

edit: I´m not nitpicking. I´m just firm believer that little details are important http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

Trax

06-06-2004, 12:55

Kings of Denmark
Christian I (http://www.danskekonger.dk/store/chrI2.jpg)

Hans (http://www.danskekonger.dk/store/hans.jpg)

Christian II (http://en.wikipedia.org/upload/d/d4/Christian_II.jpg) I chose a different picture then the Swedish Christian posted above to avoid situation where two different factions have exactly the same portrait.

Frederik I (http://www.danskekonger.dk/store/FreI.jpg)

Christian III (http://www.danskekonger.dk/store/ChrIII.jpg)

Frederik II (http://www.landenweb.com/images/imgDenemarken/FrederikII.jpg)

Christian IV (http://www.newgenevacenter.org/portrait/christian-iv.jpg)

Frederik III (http://www.kunstkammer.dk/H_R/Ae584.jpg)

Christian V (http://www.danskekonger.dk/store/chrV.jpg)

Frederik IV (http://www.museumsnett.no/nasjonalgalleriet/NG25aar/W835/NG.M.00176.JPG)

Trax

06-06-2004, 14:32

OK i have nothing better to do at the moment so i decided to make the Danish portraits myself http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif If there is anything wrong with them just say so and i stop.

http://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/11346/Christian%20I.jpghttp://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/11346/Hans.jpghttp://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/11346/Chriatian%20II.jpg

http://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/11346/Frederik.jpghttp://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/11346/Christian%20III.jpghttp://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/11346/Frederik%20II.jpg

http://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/11346/Christian%20IV.jpghttp://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/11346/Frederik%20III.jpghttp://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/11346/christian%20V.jpghttp://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/11346/Frederik%20IV.jpg

Hetman

06-07-2004, 08:57

Here is the full, complete list of provinces with buildable mercenary option, although some other provinces will be able to create one or two
such units, but only for one or two factions.

Egypt,Palestine,Constantinopole - for Ottomans only mercenary artillery, for europeans more unit choices;

Cyprus,Rhodes,Crete,Malta - important for Venetia and the Knights;

Carpathia,

Crimea - for artillery units mostly because Crimean Khanate will not be able to create artillery different than buildable mercenaries;

Novgorod,

Denmark,

Livonia,

Prussia,

Pomerania,Silesia,Bohemia,Austria,Bavaria,Franconia,Saxony,Brandenburg,
Friesland,Lorraine,Swabia,Switzerland,Tyrolia,Flandres - whole HRE + Dutch and Swiss provinces;

Burgundy,Provence,

Ireland,

Scotland,Northumbria - Scottish mostly;

Venice,Milan,Genoa,Tuscany,Rome,Naples,The Papal State,Sycily - i.e. whole Italy;

Aragorn,

Portugal - useful for Portugal;

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Swordmaster - I will.

uksiu

06-07-2004, 10:10

Quote[/b] ]Aragornand his army of ghosts I hope? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

BTW I like your ideas. Good luck in creating new mod

Dead Moroz

06-07-2004, 20:41

Kiev, Khazaria and Volgo-Bulgaria should be added to list of provinces with building mercenaries option because of ability to hire cossacks and Turkic cavalry there.

Also Khazaria and Volgo-Bulgaria must be renamed. I suggest:
- Kazan for Volgo-Bulgaria with castle Kazan;
- Dikoe Pole (wild field) for Khazaria with castle Azov (must be replaced close to sea).

SwordsMaster

06-07-2004, 22:57

@ Dead Moroz

I think that in the map we are finally going to use, Kazar is going to be splitted (I dont know for sure, but if even Castile is splitted, I believe with the size Kazar has it will be too), but I am not too sure in which way.So we might even have 2 castles. Agree with Azov BTW. Apart from that, Azov should be situated in a flat map with the castle having the sea at 2 sides. Hard to take. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif

Eastside Character

06-07-2004, 23:21

Quote[/b] (Dead Moroz @ June 07 2004,14:41)]Also Khazaria and Volgo-Bulgaria must be renamed. I suggest:
1.- Kazan for Volgo-Bulgaria with castle Kazan;
2.- Dikoe Pole (wild field) for Khazaria with castle Azov (must be replaced close to sea).
1. I agree.
2. Why so? If Volga-Bulgaria becomes Kazan, which is (was) situated a bit more to the east, why not renaming Khazar to Astrakhan then? Then governors of these provinces could be respectively Khan of Kazan and Khan of Astrakhan.

Regards,
EC

Trax

06-08-2004, 00:01

If there is going to be a new map, then I think that the new provinces will mostly have to go to the smaller factions.

Like Portugal, Holland, Scotland etc

Portugal to two parts (Oporto and Algarve?)
Scotland to Lowlands and Highlands?

Unfortunatly making a map is very hard or so I have heard, I have so many good ideas for it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-lost.gif

Hetman

06-08-2004, 09:51

Quote[/b] (Dead Moroz @ June 07 2004,14:41)]Kiev, Khazaria and Volgo-Bulgaria should be added to list of provinces with building mercenaries option because of ability to hire cossacks and Turkic cavalry there.
These are going to be regional units available to Poland, Tatars, Ottomans, Russia, Ukraine and Georgia.

Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Hetman

06-08-2004, 10:12

Quote[/b] (Datka @ May 26 2004,16:11)]Hetman

Quote[/b] ]I think it is possible to add Georgia as a playable faction in all periods.
Your units proposals are quite good, have to ask You several questions.
Thanks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

Quote[/b] ]Georgian riflemen - what kind of firearm were they using, arquebus or a musket ( and how fast were they shooting).
Well rifles appeared in Georgia very late. It was because of absolute isolation from Europe, caused by the Ottomans. Thats why I say theme should be no riflemen in Early. Only in the XVI century they appeared in Georgia. Few were made here by separate craftsmen, and some were imported from Europe (through the Crimea). By the end of XVI century only about 4-5% of Geogian warriors were armed with rifles. In XVII century their number rose a bit, but still they were few. I cant tell you exactly wether these were arquebuses or muskets. I guess they were the same that were in Europe in the corresponding periods.

Quote[/b] ]2. Cavalry.
Did they use shields or armour, armoured steeds maybe ?

Yes they should have shields and armour, not very heavy though.
Horses were not armoured.

Quote[/b] ]3.
Which ones were disciplined or elite ?
Elite:
Elite Mkhedrebi
Swordsmen Mkhedrebi
Spearmen Mkhedrebi
Aragvian Warriors

Disciplined:
Elite Mkhedrebi

Quote[/b] ]4.
Could You send me some info useful for units' descriptions, building requirements and so on.

Well one will hardly find any such info in Internet, in English especially http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif . I use the books. Georgian ones. So I can't send you a direct info, I'll have to work on it myself :). I can write the descriptions.
About building requirements - I guess new buildings will be in this Mod. So I must know their system (tree) to define the requirements.

And tell me all the other info u need. I guess I will be able to provide u with most of what is required for the adding of a faction. The only problem are the pictures. I cant find them, I hope u can do without them...
Datka

I think You could use georgian names for the units You proposed ( I mean translations, plural and singular form).
The adjective 'georgian' isn't necessary.

Another thing - please choose the most appriopriate pictures and icons from the ones used in the MTW for Your proposals.
Download BifReader from ORG downloadable tools - this really could help You to choose which ones are the best for this purpose.

My e-mail Cegorach@wp.pl in case You have any useful info which You can't post ( too large).

regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Eastside Character

06-08-2004, 10:59

Quote[/b] (Hetman @ June 08 2004,04:12)]Another thing - please choose the most appriopriate pictures and icons from the ones used in the MTW for Your proposals.
We can make new icons, more appropriate ones.

Regards,
EC

Datka

06-08-2004, 12:54

Hetman,
here are Georgian names for the units

English - Georgian Plural - Georgian Singular:

Speramen Mkhedrebi - Shubosani Mkhedrebi - Shubosani Mkhedari

Swordsmen Mkhedrebi - Khmlosani Mkhedrebi - Khmlosani Mkhedari

Elite Mkhedrebi - Elite Mkhedrebi - Elite Mkhedari

Georgian Foot Warriors - Kveiti Meomrebi - Kveiti Meomari

Georgian riflemen - Metopheni - Metophe

Georgian Mountainers - Mtiulebi - Mtiuli

Aragvian Warriors - Aragvlebi - Aragveli

Regards, Datka

SwordsMaster

06-08-2004, 12:58

check out this link (http://www.pegasomodels.com/details_en.asp?code=54-036) for more unit images.

Thanks guys from the Two crowns mod. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Trax

06-08-2004, 13:30

OK, here is the next bunch of portraits.

Doges of Venice.
Giovanni Mocenigo (http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/b/bellini/gentile/mocenigo.jpg)

Marco Barbarigo (http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/WebMedia/Images/69/NG696/eNG696.jpg)

Agostino Barbarigo (http://www.venicescapes.org/IMAGES/Barbarigo.jpg)

Leonardo Loredano (http://home.wanadoo.nl/candida_martinelli/images/doge.jpg)

Antonio Grimani (http://community.webshots.com/s/image1/2/75/39/3927539dsjSgDeIaW_ph.jpg)

Andrea Gritti (http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/t/tiziano/1portrai/gritti.jpg)

Lorenzo Priuli (http://images.google.co.in/imgres?imgurl=www.hotelpriuli.com/images/Doge_Lorenzo__Priuli.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.hotelpriuli.com/Doge_Lorenzo_Priuli_junior_suite-en.htm&h=273&w=211&sz=29&tbnid=KzTKxxbUuIwJ:&tbnh=107&tbnw=83&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522Lorenzo%2BPriuli%2522%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG)

Pietro Loredano (http://www.cincinnati.com/masterpieces/img/tintoretto1_470.jpg)

Sebastiano Veniero (http://www.itsos.gpa.it/storia/venezia/venezia/politica/immpolit/sebast.gif)

Antonio Priuli (http://images.google.co.in/imgres?imgurl=www.hotelpriuli.com/images/101_detail-f.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.hotelpriuli.com/Doge_Antonio_Priuli_junior_suite-it.htm&h=419&w=305&sz=71&tbnid=iOAWXtxBLngJ:&tbnh=120&tbnw=88&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522Antonio%2BPriuli%2522%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN)

Francesco Cornaro (http://www.boglewood.com/cornaro/xportrait_g19oval2.jpg)

Most of the doges don´t have coloured portraits available, including the high and late era starting monarchs, which is particularly bad. I would be very nice, if anyone could find those pics.

There is a page with black and white portraits of most of them though.
http://www.doge.it/dogi/menalf.htm

edit: some of the links seems to have gone missing during posting, I try to replace them later http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif

Dead Moroz

06-08-2004, 13:59

Quote[/b] (Eastside Character @ June 08 2004,02:21)]
Quote[/b] (Dead Moroz @ June 07 2004,14:41)]Also Khazaria and Volgo-Bulgaria must be renamed. I suggest:
1.- Kazan for Volgo-Bulgaria with castle Kazan;
2.- Dikoe Pole (wild field) for Khazaria with castle Azov (must be replaced close to sea).
1. I agree.
2. Why so? If Volga-Bulgaria becomes Kazan, which is (was) situated a bit more to the east, why not renaming Khazar to Astrakhan then? Then governors of these provinces could be respectively Khan of Kazan and Khan of Astrakhan.
Volgo-Bulgaria was situated just on place where Kazanian khanate was later and where modern Tatarstan is now. I agree with you EC if you mean that location of Volgo-Bulgaria on MTW's map is wrong.
But we can't rename Khazaria to Astrakhan, even if it will be splitted. Because Astrakhan is situated on delta of Volga close to Caspian Sea - but we have no Caspian Sea on MTW's map.

Khazaria can be splitted into two parts:
- Dikoe Pole - big steppe region with castle Azov. There will be Turkic nomads living here.
- Caucasia - mountain land between Dikoe Pole and Georgia. There will be different Caucasian tribes living here. The name of rebels could be Circassians. They will be good cavalrymen. The name of regional castle I can choose later.

Angelnessuno

06-08-2004, 17:34

Citazione[/b] ]check out this link for more unit images.

Thanks guys from the Two crowns mod.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Eastside Character

06-08-2004, 18:16

Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ June 08 2004,06:58)]check out this link (http://www.pegasomodels.com/details_en.asp?code=54-036) for more unit images.

Thanks guys from the Two crowns mod. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif
Very good link indeed.

Regards,
EC

Dead Moroz

06-09-2004, 08:59

Is there anybody among us who can create 3d graphics? How about preparing this mod for RTW? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

SwordsMaster

06-09-2004, 11:35

Ok, sorry for the gap in between but heres a desc for picas secas:

These men are veterans who served for a few years in different campaigns and are disciplined in battle, but arrogant and prone to rebellion in peace. Armed with short pikes and swords and light armour they are valuable and reliable medium infantry, and form the backbone of all spanish armies in Europe.

My computer isnt prepared for RTW unfortunatly, so Im not your man Dead Moroz. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Robson85

06-09-2004, 13:42

DO you now any good site about history of Poland in 1772-1795 period

azid

06-09-2004, 20:53

I must say that this mod sure makes me interested Unfourtunately there seems to be a lack of organization? someone is writing about a super horse all the time I have a quick queston is this mod supposed to focus only on poland russia crimea georgia , eastern europe?

SwordsMaster

06-09-2004, 20:56

@ Azid:

Not really. You can look at the unit roster at page 7. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif We havent started testing yet, so everything is still subject to changes. I dont want to have undestructable unit either. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-glasses2.gif

Eastside Character

06-09-2004, 23:08

Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ June 09 2004,14:56)]We havent started testing yet, so everything is still subject to changes.
Exactly, the playtesting will show what changes are needed.

Quote[/b] (azid @ June 09 2004,14:53)]I have a quick queston is this mod supposed to focus only on poland russia crimea georgia , eastern europe?
Certainly not.

Quote[/b] (azid @ June 09 2004,14:53)]Unfourtunately there seems to be a lack of organization?
Slowly but surely the Mod is progressing. Every person involved in the project is doing what they can. The fact that there are no formal arrangements among the crew, doesn't mean there's no organization. Things are fine.

Regards,
EC

SwordsMaster

06-10-2004, 10:30

I thought you might want to have a look at the images at the bottom of this page (http://www.wargaming.net/dbaol_screenshots.php) in case theres something that could be usable for our mod.

This is another good page I found.

here (http://images.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=kozacy.in4.pl/galeria/mod/swedish_17c_musketeer.jpg&imgrefurl=http://kozacy.in4.pl/galeria/mod/mod.htm&h=150&w=150&sz=7&tbnid=7bBduYwjSbsJ:&tbnh=90&tbnw=90&start=4&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmusketeer%252BXVII%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8)

this (http://images.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=www.pegasomodels.com/prodotti/small/90-003_1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.pegasomodels.com/view_en.asp%3Fcat%3D03%26page%3D6&h=133&w=90&sz=3&tbnid=ibfY4lUvEfgJ:&tbnh=85&tbnw=58&start=8&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmusketeer%252BXVII%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8) is another page with figures that could be useful.

and this (http://images.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=cossacks.heavengames.com/images/units/pix/Sweden_Musketeer_XVII.jpg&imgrefurl=http://cossacks.heavengames.com/images/units/sweden.shtml&h=224&w=144&sz=12&tbnid=16k3A294m1gJ:&tbnh=101&tbnw=65&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmusketeer%252BXVII%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8) is another one from Cossacks.

Regards.

Angelnessuno

06-10-2004, 16:20

i would happy to help you with my knowdlege about venetian army i promised that i will give you all the name of the venetians units
.......but you must give me some day anyway

this is a link about venetian army in
600
http://www.doge.it/esercito/eserc1.htm
http://www.doge.it/esercito/eserc10.htm
http://www.doge.it/esercito/eserc11.htm

in 1400-500 venetian used ,like all italian states the mercenaries army the famous ''condottieri''
the great part of mercenaries in 1400 were italians
but venetians used troups that came from abrod like the famous '' Stradiotti'': a light balcan greek cavalry
or swiss pikeman
in 1400 -500 the italians army were very complete it had all kind of troups
-archers ''arcieri''
-archibuiser ''archibugieri''
-pavise arbalesters ''balestrieri pavesi''
-light infantry ''fanteria leggera''
-heavy cavalry ''cavalleria corazzata''
-light cavalry ''cavalleggeri''
-crossbowman with horse ''balestrieri a cavallo''
ecc the only differen between heavy cavalry and light cavalry was that the horse that had the armour in the first case and not in the second
the italians hadn't a heavy infantry of pikeman of good quality at least until the second half of 1500 so they used troup for example of swiss pikemans
anyway in the 600 the venetian army were very similar at all europeans army with pikeman and musqueters and the condottiery system disappared ...
and borned a lot of different cavalry units like in all europe :-dragoon ''dragoni''
-and units of ''corazze '' an heavy cavalry units (like the curaisser)
the balcans troups continued to be used in the army .....
gimme some day and i will give you more news

Trax

06-10-2004, 16:42

Also, if you happen to find any coloured portraits of Venetian doges (in addition to those I posted above) it would be most welcome. Particularly of those, who were in power in 1571 and 1648 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

azid

06-10-2004, 20:58

Quote[/b] (Eastside Character @ June 09 2004,17:08)]
Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ June 09 2004,14:56)]We havent started testing yet, so everything is still subject to changes.
Exactly, the playtesting will show what changes are needed.

Quote[/b] (azid @ June 09 2004,14:53)]I have a quick queston is this mod supposed to focus only on poland russia crimea georgia , eastern europe?
Certainly not.

Quote[/b] (azid @ June 09 2004,14:53)]Unfourtunately there seems to be a lack of organization?
Slowly but surely the Mod is progressing. Every person involved in the project is doing what they can. The fact that there are no formal arrangements among the crew, doesn't mean there's no organization. Things are fine.

Regards,
EC
Sorry if expressed myself in a rude way im an arrogant swede so nice things are progressing if you need any help with history descriptions etc, anything I would happily help as I have a great interest in eurpean history. Keep on working and thanks for your replies guys http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

SwordsMaster

06-10-2004, 22:03

Azid, We lack info about the kingdom of Fez and the German states, it would be great if you could provide some about those.

Regards.

azid

06-10-2004, 22:30

alright i will work later tonight on it =) timeperiod is 1500 - 1700 about?
is fez the small kingdom opposite to gibraltar conquered by portugals private crusade in 1500 ? nvm, i'll find out =)

Eastside Character

06-10-2004, 22:53

Quote[/b] (azid @ June 10 2004,16:30)]alright i will work later tonight on it =) timeperiod is 1500 - 1700 about?

Exactly, it's 1480-1700.

Quote[/b] (azid @ June 10 2004,16:30)]
is fez the small kingdom opposite to gibraltar conquered by portugals private crusade in 1500 ? nvm, i'll find out =)

That's the place. It's mtw province is Morocco.

Regards,
EC

Hetman

06-11-2004, 10:20

New ideas

NEW UNIT for Crimean Tatars

Tatars with arkan - 'Tatar Hunters' or whatever name EC thinks is appriopriate.

Similar stats as ordinary Crimean cavalry ( Tatar cavalry) +
bonus attacking cavalry, faster charge ( this way should capture more prisoners) and cause fear to heavy cavalry ( except Polish Husaria the wings protected them in some way), numbers 40, armed with bows but small number of arrows ( 15 ?).
Why should cause fear - because the prospect of being dragged somewhere in Asia for the rest of your life is rather gloomy and because they were really hunting for heavily armoured and cumbersome knights.
Should be really useful, but for Tatars only.

TECHTREE - THE BASIC IDEAS

Generally most of the structures should be faster to build ( 2 times mostly) and for most of these castle nr 3 ( first without any wooden fortifications) should be enough - this way the game should be more dynamic.

Watchtowers - Border forts - harder to build ( more time), in addition border forts will not be available to all countries, only to those which reach high level of centralization e.g. France, Hapsburgs, Sweden
- which would be quite opposite to democratic countries e.g. Hungary, Poland, England.

Boyer - only 1 level ( 2 to eastern factions) - for crossbowmen and mercenaries mostly. 2nd level for factions using compound bows e.g. Ottomans, Poland.

Spearmaker - all levels, for pikemen and lancer cavalry.

Swordmaker - all levels, but much shorter construction time, required for cavalry and few units of infantry.

Town Watch - all levels, for infantry units mostly.

Gunsmith - for Arquebusiers, Musketeers and some cavalry units (Dragoons).

Foundry - all levels, different types of cannons and several types of warships.

Horse Breeder - 3 levels ( eastern factions get Master level).

different Palaces ( Chancellary etc.) - only faster to build.

Royal Court - Royal Estate - Baronial Court - Baronial Estate

renamed for political purposes - RE to Royal Palace, BC to 'regional parliaments' ( better name required) and finally BE to the State Parliament available to few, the highest level building for democratic countries.

College of Surgeons - renamed,the seat of power for absolutic countries - high income, better troops, lower happiness.

University - small income, higher happiness, not unique.

Merchant - all levels, but probably not for all factions.

Church - less time to build.

Catherdral - not unique, smaller income.

Reliquary - for catholic and orthodox factions only, small income, unique.

Monastery - catholic and orthodox only.

Metalsmith - 2 levels - 1st for all ( iron not required), 2nd for Damascus and Toledo - +3 weapon upgrade, high income ( 224).

Armourer - no armour upgrades, small income, required for several types of cavalry.

Port - small income, tempts mercenaries.

Inn - more time to build, small income, mercenary and buildable mercenaries available.

Brothel and Tavern - no serious changes.

Mines, dockyards - no serious changes.

Chapter house - renamed to colonial house - high income ( 540), available to some factions in several provinces ( colonists trade good).

Border forts will generate income ( border tariffs) - 56 I think.

Upgrades for master level buildings

Spearmaker - +1 weapon,

Swordmaker - +1 weapon,

Town Watch - +1 discipline,

Gunsmith - +1 valour,

Foundry - +1 discipline,

Horse Breeder - +1 discipline,

Military Academy - +1 valour, +1 discipline, small income ( 26).
it is a kind of 'military reform structure' - not unique.

In addition - we can use siegemaster branch for other income generating buildings possibly.

Finally - it is possible to add new office titles to any of these buildings ( high level) so I think we could use even structures like mine complex or master foundry and especially the colonial house (vicekings, governors and so on).

Regards Hetman/Cegorach http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Dead Moroz

06-11-2004, 11:06

Quote[/b] (Hetman @ June 11 2004,13:20)]Tatars with arkan - 'Tatar Hunters' or whatever name EC thinks is appriopriate.

Similar stats as ordinary Crimean cavalry ( Tatar cavalry) +
bonus attacking cavalry, faster charge ( this way should capture more prisoners) and cause fear to heavy cavalry ( except Polish Husaria the wings protected them in some way), numbers 40, armed with bows but small number of arrows ( 15 ?).
Why should cause fear - because the prospect of being dragged somewhere in Asia for the rest of your life is rather gloomy and because they were really hunting for heavily armoured and cumbersome knights.
Should be really useful, but for Tatars only.
This pic can be used for description of the unit. But it shows Mongols of XIII century I guess.

http://www.ruslan-com.ru/zotov/turk_4.jpg

SwordsMaster

06-11-2004, 14:22

About the techtree:
After building the military academy the reformed units should become available, without removing the old ones.

About the tatar hunters: they chould have faster charge but not a powerful one, coz they were very light cavalry after all. or very low defence, or both.

Trax

06-11-2004, 15:43

Quote[/b] ]Metalsmith - 2 levels - 1st for all ( iron not required), 2nd for Damascus and Toledo - +3 weapon upgrade, high income ( 224).

Armourer - no armour upgrades, small income, required for several types of cavalry.

Why not to have one special armourer building too, in Milan for example?

SwordsMaster

06-11-2004, 15:50

just another thought: to be able to build musketeers/arquebusiers you need both a swordssmith and a gunnsmith. they carried swords and daggers in most of europe.

azid

06-11-2004, 16:21

very basic german history:
Well i've done som basic research on germany as we all know germany was split up into 350 minor states all/most of apart of the Holy roman empire. very complicated so maybe you should read a bit about it here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire).

Reformation:
In 1511-1520 martin luther came and well you know what he did he helped the germans become free of the catholic church and many states followed, mostly the northern states as they felt no need to be ruled by the pope etc.

(In 1618 brandenburg also inherits prussia and later becomes the kingdom of prussia which unifies germany in 1871.)

30 years war:
All these states soon made Germany the stage for the lengthy European War, the Thirty Years War, which stretched from 1618 to 1648. After the war:
The Peace of westphalia, the treaty that marked the end of the terrible war, recogniced the sovereignty and independence of each state of the Holy Roman Empire. Thus this First Reich was stripped of all power. The treaty served to confirm the religious and political division (350 states) of the country. The religion of each German state was to be determined by the ruling prince of each state

So basically germany has a lot of states, and imo germany should be represented by some of the strongest states and not a holy roman empire as thats not very realistic.

so here are some excellent maps of europe (http://www.euratlas.com/time2.htm)

ingame:
1: Suggested states:
duchy of Bavaria, Kingdom of Brandenburg, electorate of saxony, austria (of course), (Hanover?), (pommern).

2: These were i believe the strongest states. With significant research we could make them unique and interesting but then again maybe there are to many of them.

3: Germany was very rich in the 16th century and had a very large population. iron was mined in the south and and traded for food produced in the north etc. you get it. =)

4: Main game thing for germany i think would be to give the states different religion i dont know if this is possible but it would be pretty cool.

(In 1500 sometime austria inherits bohemia and later hungary should this be represented?)

Pictures:
16th century german soldiers (http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/PLATE36CX.HTML)

early 17th century german soldiers (http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/PLATE53AX.HTML)

1700 austrian soldiers (http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/PLATE68DX.HTML)
Some more plates can be found on same site.

and finally:
polish feather soldier (http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/PLATE45BX.HTML)

Hetman

06-12-2004, 11:28

Dead Moroz

Your names for Russian units are good, but please use completely russian names i.e. even translations if required so no Russian Cavalry.
One more thing we need singular and plural forms.

Thank You.

azid

someone is writing about a super horse all the time

It's me m8, but I believe the topic is closed. Believe me the unit was devastating and it will be balanced - I'm working on it.
And it's not impossible to beat them although very dangerous - Swedish armies actually experienced their power quite many times.
End of the topic. Use PM if You want discussion.

Sorry if expressed myself in a rude way im an arrogant swede

We really need more people from western Europe in our team. Swordmaster is not enough, although his help is invaluable.

I'm doing what I can to find more. I've sent several PMs inviting several members, Dead Moroz for example, some answered, but not enough.
The mod really requires help from France especially.
Check 'XVI-XVII research' - maybe You could add something.

Good to have somebody from Sweden m8

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Hetman

06-12-2004, 11:33

A very good link about Croatian units ( and not only)

link http://pubwww.srce.hr/husar/

thanks to MFF from Polish Total War forum.

Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

SwordsMaster

06-12-2004, 13:05

Ok, as it seems as I am not doing enough, this is some general info about France:

Quote[/b] ]Louis XII, 1462-1515 (r.1498-1515), succeeded his cousin Charles VIII and ensured the continuation of the personal union of France and Brittany by having his first marriage annulled and marrying Anne Of Brittany, Charles VIII's widow. Thereafter Louis tried to assert his claims in Italy (see Italian Wars). He conquered Milan and Genoa, but failed to secure Naples, which he had conquered with the Spanish king Ferdinand V. His Italian territories were attacked (1511) by the Holy League of Pope Julius Ii. Louis abandoned Milan, and in 1513 his armies were defeated at Novara and Guinegate. In 1514 he made a truce with all his enemies save Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian I. Louis tried to rule France with justice and moderation, and was known as the Father of the People. He was succeeded by his cousin and son-in-law, Francis I.

Louis XIII, 1601-43 (r.1610-43), succeeded his father, Henry Iv, under the regency of his mother, Marie De' Medici, and married (1615) Anne Of Austria. Even after being declared of age in 1614, he was excluded from state affairs by his mother. In 1617 he caused the assassination of her minister, Concino Concini, with the help of his own favorite, the duc de Luynes. Marie was forced into retirement, but was temporarily reconciled with Louis when he entrusted the government to her protégé, Cardinal Richelieu. Melancholy and retiring by nature, Louis gave full support to Richelieu and to his successor, Cardinal Mazarin. His son and successor, Louis XIV, 1638-1715 (r.1643-1715), began his reign under the regency of his mother, Anne of Austria, but real power was in the hands of Cardinal Mazarin. Although Louis's majority was declared (1651), he did not take control of the government until the cardinal's death (1661). The centralizing policies of Richelieu and Mazarin had prepared the ground for Louis, under whom absolute monarchy, based on the theory of divine right, reached its height. Gathering power into his own hands, he forced the nobility into financial dependence on the crown, curtailed local authorities, and used the bourgeoisie to build a centralized administration. Under his minister, Jean Baptiste Colbert, industry and commerce were expanded according to Mercantilism. Under the war minister, the marquis de Louvois, the foundations of French military greatness were laid. In foreign policy Louis strove for supremacy. His marriage (1660) to the Spanish princess Marie Thérèse served as a pretext for the War of Devolution (1667-68), which netted him part of Flanders. In the Third Dutch War (1672-78), Louis gained Franche-Comté, but depleted his treasury. Over the next 10 years he seized, on various pretexts, a number of cities, notably Strasbourg (1681). Fear of Louis's rapacity resulted in two great European wars, the War of the Grand Alliance and the War of the Spanish Succession. These left France in debt and weakened it militarily. In religion, Louis resorted in the 1680s to the persecution of French Protestants, or Huguenots, which culminated (1685) in the revocation of the Edict of Nantes, after which many Huguenots fled France. Despite his orthodoxy, Louis resisted papal interference in France, and his quarrels with the papacy neared schism (1673-93). He had many mistresses, among them Mlle de La Vallière and Mme de Montespan. In 1684 he married Mme de Maintenon, who was a great influence on him in later years. Louis was a supporter of the arts and was a patron of writers and artists such as . André Hercule de Fleury was the young king's chief adviser from 1726. After Fleury's death (1743), Louis was influenced by a succession of favorites, such as Mme de Pompadour. As a result of the king's marriage (1725) to the Polish princess Marie Leszcynska, France took part in the War of the Polish Succession (1733-35), and eventually obtained the duchy of Lorraine. Louis was also involved in the War of the Austrian Succession (1740-48) and in the Seven Years War (1756-63). In the latter, France lost most of its colonial empire and reached a low point in its prestige on the continent. The expense of the wars and Louis's extravagant court left the government nearly bankrupt. The failure by the monarchy to solve its fiscal problems and to effect needed reforms led directly to the French Revolution. The saying Après moi le déluge [after me, the flood], though wrongly attributed to Louis, aptly sums up his reign.

The problem about the military part of the question is that there are lots of info ABOUT it, but nothing describing it, which is the problem.

here (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=www.utexas.edu/depts/french/web/kibler/Kibler1/pictures/richelieu.jpeg&imgrefurl=http://www.utexas.edu/depts/french/web/kibler/Kibler1/louisXIII.html&h=192&w=143&sz=9&tbnid=GkY_vogzNH4J:&tbnh=96&tbnw=72&start=66&prev=/images%3Fq%3DRichelieu%26start%3D60%26hl%3Des%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DN) is a link to a page about Richelieu and Luis XIII. its in french, but you can use the images at least.

Eastside Character

06-12-2004, 13:09

Quote[/b] (Hetman @ June 12 2004,05:28)]The mod really requires help from France especially.
I doubt we'll find even one Frenchman around, though I believe I've seen somebody from France some... hmm... a half a year ago, or even earlier. The French seem to don't like the fact we don't talk French on the forums.

Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ June 11 2004,09:50)]just another thought: to be able to build musketeers/arquebusiers you need both a swordssmith and a gunnsmith. they carried swords and daggers in most of europe.
For musketeers I think it's certainly a good idea, but for arquebusiers, well I don't think all types of arquebusiers should have such building requirements.

Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ June 11 2004,08:22)]About the tatar hunters: they chould have faster charge but not a powerful one, coz they were very light cavalry after all. or very low defence, or both.
I think they should have (very) weak charge, shouldn't be faster than other Tatar units, weak defence, good or so-so attack, fairy small unit, very maneuverable. Actually I think this unit should be rather a missile one than melee. If there was one free projectiles slot, we could make 'arkan' as a short range missile weapon causing fear. I think it'll be hard to construct this unit in the way so it represents what it's supposed to and to make the AI handle it correctly. A lotta playtesting will be needed here. And the (more appropriate) name of it, I'll provide it later.

Regards,
EC

SwordsMaster

06-12-2004, 13:48

Some pictures of cannons here (http://ao1617.0catch.com/europe/artillerie.html)

BTW, the german cavalry used mostly lances and swords before 1550, and 2-3 pistols after that date.

this (http://www.chez.com/praetiritifides/) is a page with a good amount of pics of the french soldiers, but mostly of the XVIII century. Couldnt find anything more recent.

SwordsMaster

06-12-2004, 15:45

this (http://www.arqnet.pt/exercito/bandeir.html) is an image of some portuguese flags. I think the best choice is a yellow cross on a blue background, but that is up to you.

lots of pics here (http://www.pikeandshot.co.uk/psslinks.html)

Link about the Danish army (http://www.megalink.net/~dschorr/DaInfSK.html)

Regards

azid

06-12-2004, 16:29

Quote[/b] (Hetman @ June 12 2004,05:28)]Dead Moroz

Your names for Russian units are good, but please use completely russian names i.e. even translations if required so no Russian Cavalry.
One more thing we need singular and plural forms.

Thank You.

azid

someone is writing about a super horse all the time

It's me m8, but I believe the topic is closed. Believe me the unit was devastating and it will be balanced - I'm working on it.
And it's not impossible to beat them although very dangerous - Swedish armies actually experienced their power quite many times.
End of the topic. Use PM if You want discussion.

Sorry if expressed myself in a rude way im an arrogant swede

We really need more people from western Europe in our team. Swordmaster is not enough, although his help is invaluable.

I'm doing what I can to find more. I've sent several PMs inviting several members, Dead Moroz for example, some answered, but not enough.
The mod really requires help from France especially.
Check 'XVI-XVII research' - maybe You could add something.

Good to have somebody from Sweden m8

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
I would be glad to help out more in this mod but im not a mod person so i can only do fluffy stuff, unless i read up on total war modding someday. If you do need more help that is. Unfourtunately mon francais est tres bad so i dont really count as a frenchman but i would gladly help some more just tell me what to do =)

SwordsMaster

06-12-2004, 16:34

Guys, I just realized that we dont have english units either. These ale consummers were in the middle of a civil war, and both parts used mostly scottish, irish, dutch and german mercenaries, and no national army existed per se. How are we going to implement that?

I thought that the brits should start with very little regular units, but have a couple of mercenary building provinces or very cheap (and unreliable) militias.

Just my thoughts.

Regards.

azid

06-12-2004, 16:54

sorry but what do you mean by this check 'XVI-XVII research' is it a thread somewhere ? :S

Earl of Sandwich

06-12-2004, 17:14

yes, there is a thread, righthere (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=27;t=18509)

Trax

06-12-2004, 18:41

I already covered Venice, this time I´ll do Genoa, their long time rivals.

Doges of Genoa

Paolo Campofregoso (http://www.eeditrice.com/paolofregoso.jpg)

Ottaviano Campofregoso (http://www.eeditrice.com/ottavianofregoso.jpg)

Andrea Doria (http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/s/sebastia/doria_a.jpg)

Agostino Pallavicini (http://www.getty.edu/art/collections/images/l/00054801.jpg)

Thats all, no more pictures on the net.
I found a site with all the Genoan doges, though.
It should be a great source of names for italian factions.
http://genealogy.euweb.cz/pan/genoa.html

Trax

06-12-2004, 18:47

Quote[/b] ]These ale consummers were in the middle of a civil war, and both parts used mostly scottish, irish, dutch and german mercenaries, and no national army existed per se. How are we going to implement that?

I don´t think so, in the Kings army there were lot of scots and some germans (Prince Rupert), but parliamentary forces consisted mostly of englishmen, particularly after the new model army was founded. The new model army was definitely one of the best in Europe BTW
Somewhere in this thread I posted a link to a English Civil War reenactment site. I could be a great source of info.

SwordsMaster

06-13-2004, 00:54

I guess the Parliament recruited non regulars at their service, thats what I mean when I say england didnt have a standing army.

Anyway, it seemed impossible to make shorter turns: check this out (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=27;t=18854;st=75) go to the last post of the page.

Trax

06-13-2004, 01:09

Here is this ECW reenactment site.
the Fairfax Battallia (http://www.fairfax.org.uk/)

It seems that in the first phase of civil war both sides didn´t rely on mercenaries, but rather on militia (so called trained bands).

Quote[/b] ]There was no professional army in England prior to the Civil War. The country relied on the militia of Trained Bands. These were supposed to be a middle class force whose primary role was to control any local disorder or riot. By 1642, however, the quality of both recruits and equipment had deteriorated alarmingly. Training had become sporadic and some were equipped with bills, pikes and antiquated calivers (an early type of musket). They were an inauspicious start for either side to contemplate building an army to fight a Civil War. They were also reluctant to fight beyond their county boundaries. Although some units continued into the Civil War, many were absorbed into new volunteer regiments. Although some of the Trained Bands had been issued with uniforms prior to the Civil War, and others were issued with 'clothing' during the Bishops War of 1639-40, there is no evidence that such local militias were issued with uniforms during the Civil War itself. They would have fought in their civilian doublets.
http://www.fairfax.org.uk/MAIN/GALLERY/index.html

A trained band musketeer (http://www.fairfax.org.uk/MAIN/GALLERY/GALLERY2/Images/caliver.jpg)

SwordsMaster

06-13-2004, 01:23

So we are just going to give England some cheap-generic-peasant-militia type of unit?

Trax

06-13-2004, 01:37

Yes, for a time period between the decline of the use of longbow and bill and the introduction of the new model army.

In the beginning of the high era England may still have some units of longbows (without a possibility to retrain them?)
Some small units of regular (better quality) infantry (some sort of royal guard maybe) and some cuirassier type cavalry. The main force in the army should be those militias (trained band musketeer, trained band pikeman, trained band billman)
Basicly it would mean that an English player better hold a low profile until the New Model Army arrives. They should get a decent navy and good admirals though, to save the AI from being invaded and easily conquered.

For a human player they should offer a nice challange to play.

SwordsMaster

06-13-2004, 01:47

Thats what I was going to suggest. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

Trax

06-13-2004, 11:22

I think, the English should have sir Francis Drake as an admiral in the beginning of the high era. How many stars should we give him? Five? Six? Seven?

Drake (http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/TUDhilliard2.jpg)

azid

06-13-2004, 15:29

here is a good link on 16th century warfare (http://www.lepg.org/warfare.htm)

There were no standing armies as we know it, although there were a few more-or-less permanent establishments in France. In the aftermath of the Hundred Years War, Charles VII dealt with the problem of unemployed men-at-arms pillaging the countryside by forming permanent standing compagnies d'ordonnance, which were composed of 50 - 100 lances. A lance was a single fully armored knight, with his squire, page, groom, and at least two archers. François Ier created standing provincial legions, large bodies of infantry inspired by Roman models. The Spanish had great success with something similar, the tercio, but the discipline, support logistics, recruiting and training needed to sustain such a military organization didn't quite develop in France. In addition to these institutions, there was a modest royal guard, well-known for its stylish outfits.

Game wise this can give us an interesting situation. How about having a lot of cheap HIGH upkeep late medieval troops (which you would have to disband after war just like in the 16th century). Then once you reach a new level of research you can build more expensive LOW upkeep representing new ways of organizing the army and new ways of paying soldiers

Trax

06-13-2004, 15:52

Next portraits, United Provinces. I presume there will be no Holland in the beginning of the early era though. Officially it was founded in 1581 though, but I guess it deserves its place in the high era.

The republic didn´t have any official heads of state as far as I undrstand, but the Oranje family held great power, being the stadtholders of several provinces.

Willem van Oranje (http://www.duitslandweb.nl/nld/nld/binaries/Actueel/Uitgelicht/willemvanoranje.jpg)

Maurits van Nassau (http://history.wisc.edu/sommerville/351/351images/maurits.jpg)

Frederik Henrik van Oranje (http://www.koninklijkhuis.nl/images/fotos/FrederikHendrik-groot.jpg)

Willem II (http://www.koninklijkhuis.nl/images/fotos/PrinsWillem-2-groot.jpg)

Willem III (http://en.wikipedia.org/upload/b/b6/William_iii_england.JPG)

azid

06-13-2004, 16:14

will you be making a new campaign map?
and do you want me to look up kings names for some of the german states?

Eastside Character

06-13-2004, 16:18

Quote[/b] (azid @ June 13 2004,09:29)]How about having a lot of cheap HIGH upkeep late medieval troops (which you would have to disband after war just like in the 16th century).
You should take into account the fact that the AI doesn't disband its units.

Regards,
EC

ThijsP

06-13-2004, 17:24

Citaat[/b] (Trax @ Juni 13 2004,09:52)]Next portraits, United Provinces. I presume there will be no Holland in the beginning of the early era though. Officially it was founded in 1581 though, but I guess it deserves its place in the high era.

The republic didn´t have any official heads of state as far as I undrstand, but the Oranje family held great power, being the stadtholders of several provinces.

Willem van Oranje (http://www.duitslandweb.nl/nld/nld/binaries/Actueel/Uitgelicht/willemvanoranje.jpg)

Maurits van Nassau (http://history.wisc.edu/sommerville/351/351images/maurits.jpg)

Frederik Henrik van Oranje (http://www.koninklijkhuis.nl/images/fotos/FrederikHendrik-groot.jpg)

Willem II (http://www.koninklijkhuis.nl/images/fotos/PrinsWillem-2-groot.jpg)

Willem III (http://en.wikipedia.org/upload/b/b6/William_iii_england.JPG)
The start of the revolt against Spain began in 1568. In 1581 the northern Netherlands proclaimed their independence.

The Family Oranje-Nassau were the commanders of the army's of the republic of the united Netherlands, most of the time. If I remember correctly almost all provinces chose them as Stadthouders (with the exception of Friesland a few times and in the two periods without stadthouders)

The head of the State were the Staten-Generaal wich was made out of poeple from all provinces. The person wich had most of the controll was the Raadspensionaris wich was elected by the Staten-Generaal. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

azid

06-13-2004, 21:12

Quote[/b] (Eastside Character @ June 13 2004,10:18)]
Quote[/b] (azid @ June 13 2004,09:29)]How about having a lot of cheap HIGH upkeep late medieval troops (which you would have to disband after war just like in the 16th century).
You should take into account the fact that the AI doesn't disband its units.

Regards,
EC
so right =( im kinda new to this modding thing so yeah there are a few other things about that idea that are bad too.

Hetman

06-14-2004, 10:30

Eastside Character

The French seem to don't like the fact we don't talk French on the forums.

Yeah, I think so. I'll try in NTW forum. I'll ask for basic help ( unit names translations), maybe we'll get more than just that.

Actually I think this unit should be rather a missile one than melee. If there was one free projectiles slot, we could make 'arkan' as a short range missile weapon causing fear. I think it'll be hard to construct this unit in the way so it represents what it's supposed to and to make the AI handle it correctly. A lotta playtesting will be needed here.

Tough one. First - I believe it's impossible ( or quite hard) to make a weapon causing fear unles it is gunpowder or artillery weapon. Second short range weapons are really difficult to use by AI. Third I've already tried the idea of different fear causing units - in my fantasy mod I made, for example, Vampires fear Witch Hunters and it really works and the AI seems to use them correctly i.e. avoiding other units just to get the Vampires.
Of course we can try different ideas, I say why not ?
Faster charge idea is to make the unit more likely to capture more prisoners than an average Tatar unit.

azid

I would be glad to help out more in this mod but im not a mod person so i can only do fluffy stuff, unless i read up on total war modding someday.

Don't worry about modding - it is progressing, I believe EC and I can make most of this.
If want to help immediately, please translate the names of Swedish units from page nr.7. I mean singular and plural forms for words like 'musketeer','pikemen' and so on - in Swedish of course.
More unit ideas, titles and other is also really important.

Trax

Why not to have one special armourer building too, in Milan for example?

Again it's difficult. The 'special' metalsmiths will be available only in provinces with iron i.e. Toledo and Damascus (wherever these are).
Of course we can add 'iron' for Milan just for the special armourer structure, but this way the metalsmith will be available in Milan to and vice versa - the metalsmith will be available in Milan.

I think, the English should have sir Francis Drake as an admiral in the beginning of the high era. How many stars should we give him? Five? Six? Seven?

As far as I know it's impossible to make historical heroes for navy, it is only possible to make famous generals and agents, not admirals.
It was discussed in NTW forum in details ( Lord Nelson case).

SwordsMaster

After building the military academy the reformed units should become available, without removing the old ones.

OF COURSE I JUST FORGOT to add military academy to the building list, and not only this.
I edited the techtree so you can check.

Link about the Danish army

YOU ARE GREAT I was able to find there very much info about... Russian army at that time. And I found my 'Holy Grail' - the unit I was trying to find for quite a long time. What's that ?

The Russian HUSARIA Yes, yes the Russians were trying to copy Husaria and created one unit of them, but it proved to be just a copy - much weaker than the original polish unit, but I think it could be implemented in the mod.

REQUEST TO ALL MEMBERS OF THE TEAM

Please not post general, historical info about countries. I believe we know enough about Reformation, reign of different kings and so on.
And please check unit/faction list in page nr. 7 first.

What we really need is military part ( units, commanders) + provinces, trade goods, titles, names, pictures etc.

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Hetman

06-14-2004, 10:31

Here is revised unit list for Russia

Noble cavalry - Znat cavalry - elite unit;

Pomestnaya Kavaleriya - basic, average cavalry;

Mounted Streltsy - from 'high';

Ryndas - mounted, but can dismount in every battle ( Tzar's bodyguard);

Kormovye Dragoons- regiments of so-called Komarits dragoons, - after military reform - like western dragoons;

Inozemniy raiters - after military reform - like western cuirassiers;

Cossacks on the state service - 'Russian Cossacks';

Russian hussars - copy of polish husaria ( but weaker), from 'late' - in Novgorod only;

Lancers - copy of polish pancerni ( but weaker), from 'late' - in Chernichov and Smolensk only;

INFANTRY

militia ( armed crowd);

Streltsy - from 'high';

Datochnye ( Conscripted) - Gorodovye - after military reform

pikemen and musketeers ( weaker than western infantry, but cheaper);

- Vybrannye ( guard infantry)- from 'late'

pikemen and musketeers - so for example Datochnye Vybrannye pikemen;

IN ADDITION

Russia will be able to use irregular Cossacks cavalry, various Zaporozhian units, some Tatar units and regional units ( e.g. western mercenary infantry and cavalry).

Russian names are required for all those units i.e. translations for 'dragoons', 'hussars', 'pikemen' and so on - for example Datochnye Vybrannye pikemen.

DEAD MOROZ

Please read this - link -

maybe You can add something more.

Regards Hetman

P.S. I edited the unit list on page 7 implementing those changes. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

Trax

06-14-2004, 11:46

Quote[/b] ]As far as I know it's impossible to make historical heroes for navy, it is only possible to make famous generals and agents, not admirals.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flat.gif This will significantly weaken factions such as England and Holland.

Hetman

06-14-2004, 12:00

Quote[/b] (Trax @ June 14 2004,05:46)]
Quote[/b] ]As far as I know it's impossible to make historical heroes for navy, it is only possible to make famous generals and agents, not admirals.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flat.gif This will significantly weaken factions such as England and Holland.
We can give them valour bonuses in their homelands or even better ships I think.

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

SwordsMaster

06-14-2004, 12:09

Quote[/b] (Trax @ June 14 2004,11:46)]
Quote[/b] ]As far as I know it's impossible to make historical heroes for navy, it is only possible to make famous generals and agents, not admirals.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flat.gif This will significantly weaken factions such as England and Holland.
we can give them a +3 command admiral title. and a cheaper type of ship.Say a frigate.

BTW, ships:

Frigate (high): cheaper for Holland, England, a ship that combined power and speed, most of the northern fleets were composed by frigates.(fast, quite powerful)

Galeon (high): cheaper for Spain, Portugal. A huge, heavily armed and armored ship, that, if lacking the agility of the smaller ones has quite good speed and VERY powerful artillery. Those were used to escort the gold fleets to/from America.(slower than frigates, VERY powerful)

Galley (always): Cheaper for Spain, Ottoman empire, Venetia. A ship with 4 powerful cannons and a variable number of oars. These ships were very common in the mediterranean as the frequent changes of wind made them perfect for coastal waters. They are usually equipped for boarding-disembarc operations.(very fast, average combat stats, maybe some bonus to landing?)

Carrack (early, high only): Cheaper for Portugal. A heavier version of the Caravel, these ships are common for the portuguese fleets for the beginning of the period. They were also used as merchants. quite average stats, shouldnt be able to catch a frigate or a galeon, but would catch merchant ships.(average-poor speed, average combat stats)

Venetian/Genoese merchant (early): cheaper for Vanice, Genoa (maybe unbuildable for others?) a cheap, reliable ship with a good but small crew that makes it VERY unsuitable for combat, even more so, when considering it was not build for speed but for space. (bad speed, bad manoevre, bad fighting stats).

Caravel (early, high only): included in the game already.

Thats all for now. BTW, can we include ships as mercs?

Regards.
SM http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Trax

06-14-2004, 12:39

In 17th century the all powerful ships-of-the-line appeared too.

I´m still dissapointed about the no admirals thingie http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
No Drake, Raleigh, de Ruyter, Blake, Heyn.

GAH http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasarno.gif

SwordsMaster

06-14-2004, 15:23

I just thought that you might want to have a look at the Dragon editor in the Alchemist lab.

Regards.

Eastside Character

06-15-2004, 00:41

Quote[/b] (Trax @ June 14 2004,06:39)]In 17th century the all powerful ships-of-the-line appeared too.

I´m still dissapointed about the no admirals thingie http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
No Drake, Raleigh, de Ruyter, Blake, Heyn.

GAH http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasarno.gif
Why not making all those navy commanders simply generals?

Also I was thinkig; do we need so many religious agents as in vanilla MTW-VI? I think we could just leave some few most important, and turn others into some purely diplomatic units or what not. I came to such conclusion because:
- I think it's too easy (for a human player) to convert infidel population, and the AI doesn't do it very well;
- Religious buildings work better in converting infidel population;
- Bishops, Cardinals etc. are not really represented in an appropriate way (they should be capable of becoming governors and ministers alike, and not travel around the map all the time).
- We could make some new agents units instead.

Ideas (not necessarily all mine, but so to have it all in one place):

Papal Legate
(for Papacy only) using bishop slot, with very little influence on religion,

Protestant Preacher
I think should affect both religion and zeal, for Protestants only obviously, fairly cheap,

Jesuit
Replacing Cardinal. Only for catholics, but should need some special building, affects religion a little, fairly expensive

Mufti
For Muslims, replacing Grand Inquisitor, little impact on religion, great on zeal, expensive

What do you think?

Regards,
EC

azid

06-15-2004, 00:43

/////Sweden - replaces Novgorod;/////

Dalkarlar (early) - infantry;

dalkarlar means Men from dalarna
The king gustav vasa got help from this region of sweden when he revolted against the danish king christian II in early 16th century.

Svennar elite infantry and cavalry for 'early';

Hakkapeliitta cavalry,

Finnish Hakkapeliitta infantry - pikemen +
- muskets
Finnish were usually very poorly trained and led but were very brave soldiers.

Smalands cavalry - 'Smålands ryttare' (smålands cavalry also a region in sweden)

Swedish Cuirassiers - 'Upplands ryttare' means Upplans cavalry (uppland is also a region in sweden)

Svenska just means swedish imo you dont need it.
Swedish Pikemen, 'Svenska Pikenerare'
Swedish Musketeers, 'Svenska musköter'
Swedish Dragoons, 'Svenska Dragoner'
Swedish 'commanded' musketeers - smaller units, the same textures though.
Svenska kommanderade musketörer

Drabanterna (early, high) Elite unit (best of the best), the kings bodyguard - infantry,
right the kings bodyguard also created in 1520 by Gustav Vasa changed name on numerous occations right now it is called
Livgardet LG, called the yellow regiment during the 30 years war, basically a guards regiment.

Kungliga Maj:ts garde och livregemente - bodyguards for 'late' - infantry,
same regiment but at a later date (1700) led by Karl XII

Now we have something pretty important that i think should be added:
IN 1680 the swedish King karl XI was given absolute power over sweden now we could afford to keep a
large standing army. this army was very modern and very organized and the soldiers were called
'karoliner' after karl XI.

infantry, -karolinskt infanteri
common soldiers well trained and armed with flinlock carbines and flintlock pistols
cavalry, -karolinska ryttare
elite cavalry well disciplined
guards, -karolinska livgardet
the guard units of the karoline army, elite troops stationed in the capitol always on full alert

I know it sounds kinda of like the polish horse but this was the time sweden was at its peak of power and was very powerful compared to its neighbour being beaten only at the end by russia,denmark and poland
http://w1.111.telia.com/~u11108365/karolin2.gif

SwordsMaster

06-15-2004, 01:00

Quote[/b] ]being beaten only at the end by russia,denmark and poland
bring beaten only by those? did they share borders with anyone else?

Ok, only messing. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

Seriously now:
I think those late units should be REALLY expensive because:

a.- You can afford them in the end anyway.
b.- The swedish army was fairly small, you simply cant enlist as many men in Sweden/Finland as you can in Russia.

About EC´s suggestions:

The Grand Inquisitor should be removed except, maybe for Spain and Portugal. And I think the Papal legate should have an influence on happiness as well (like the spies in vanilla MTW), because the governors tried to be friendly with them.

Are the Russians going to have any religious agents? I am just wondering because noone mentioned it before.

crazyviking03

06-15-2004, 02:57

Hello. I just got back from Barnes and Nobles, and bought a book titled The Renaissance At War. It is a very complete book on the period of this mod. If any of you need me to look some things up, let me know, I will be on and off the forums all night, fiancee and I doing some all night house cleaning.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif

Dead Moroz

06-15-2004, 10:29

That's the list of translated names for Russian units. (UPDATED)

Cavalry:

Noble cavalry - Znat (because noble meant cavalryman that time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ). Plur. - Znat, sing. - Boyarin. All periods.

Common Russian cavalry - Pomestnaya Konnitsa. Plur. - Pomestnaya Konnitsa, sing. - Pomestniy Konnik. All periods.

Mounted Streltsy - Stremenniye Streltsy. Plur. - Stremenniye Streltsy, sing. - Stremennoy Strelets. High and Late periods.

Ryndas (Tsar's bodyguards) - Ryndy. Plur.- Ryndy, sing. - Rynda. All periods.

Dragoons - Draguny. Plur. - Draguny, sing. - Dragun. Late period.

Raiters - Reytary. Plur. - Reytary, sing. - Reytar. Late period.

Russian cossacks on state service - Gorodoviye Kazaki (you may name Russian cossacks Kazaki and Ukrainian cossacks Kozaki http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif , this is the difference between modern Russian and Ukrainian languages). Plur. - Gorodoviye Kazaki, sing. - Gorodovoy Kazak. High and Late periods.

Russian hussars - Gusary. Plur. - Gusary, sing. - Gusar. Late period. In Novgorod only. I'm not sure this unit is necessary, because there was just small number of not typical Russian force.

Lancers (copy of polish pancerni) - Stremenniye Kopeyshchiki (not sure about this name). Plur. - Stremenniye Kopeyshchiki, sing. - Stremennoy Kopeyshchik. Late period. In Chernigov only. And I'm also not sure this unit is necessary.

Infantry:

Russian harquebusers - Pishchalshchiki. Plur. - Pishchalshchiki, sing. - Pishchalshchik. Early period.

Russian militia - Opolcheniye. Plur. - Opolcheniye, sing. - Opolchenets. All periods.

Russian riflemen - Streltsy. Plur. - Streltsy, sing. - Strelets. High and Late periods.

Western style musketeers - Soldaty. Plur. - Soldaty, sing. - Soldat. Late period.

Western style pikemen - Kopeyshchiki. Plur. - Kopeyshchiki, sing. - Kopeyshchik. Late period.

I'll give descriptions for all units soon. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif

Eastside Character

06-15-2004, 10:54

Quote[/b] (Dead Moroz @ June 15 2004,04:29)]Russian hussars - Gusary. Plur. - Gusary, sing. - Gusar. I'm not sure this unit is necessary, because there was just small number of not typical Russian force.

Lancers (copy of polish pancerni) - can't give some proper Russian name. Think you should use Polish name for this unit. And I'm also not sure this unit is necessary.
So, perhaps it would be more sensible not to include them in Russian army roster? Especially that they are typically Polish units, and probably some of the best Polish faction can get.

Regards,
EC

Hetman

06-15-2004, 11:31

ThijsP

Please translate names of Dutch units - plural and singular forms.

UNits :

Dutch Pikemen,

Dutch Musketeers,

Dutch Mounted Harquebusiers,

We need translation of words 'pikemen', 'musketers' and 'mounted arquebusiers' in Dutch - adjective 'dutch' shouldn't be translated.

Thank You.

SwordsMaster

we can give them a +3 command admiral title.

This way their ground forces will be more powerful, not navy.

cheaper for Holland, England,

EC tried, and explained it is impossible to give multiple faction advantages for several units.

BTW, can we include ships as mercs?

No.

GENERALLY

This time I really edited techtree, please check.

Moldavian and Wallachian units are going to be revised - help from Romania.

here is the link Dead Moroz -

http://www.megalink.net/~dschorr/RusArm17.html

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Hetman

06-15-2004, 11:38

Quote[/b] (Eastside Character @ June 15 2004,04:54)]Especially that they are typically Polish units, and probably some of the best Polish faction can get.

Regards,
EC
EC - they were a copy of Husaria, but they were not HUsaria, but much, much worse ( never charged pikemen for example) - still very interesting and powerful unit, useful against enemy cavalry.

The copied units were quite numerous - for example it seems that russian pancerni were more numerous than russian dragoons.
Anyway I like the idea and I'm going to use it at least for myself.

About religious agents - I've already implemented Protestant Preacher and Jesuits - and it was quite a long time ago.

Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

SwordsMaster

06-15-2004, 13:35

Quote[/b] ]SwordsMaster

we can give them a +3 command admiral title.

This way their ground forces will be more powerful, not navy.

cheaper for Holland, England,

EC tried, and explained it is impossible to give multiple faction advantages for several units.

ok, byt we can make them region-dependant. So the frigates built in Maasdam or Amsterdam will get +1 valour.As will get the ones built in Mercia per example. The same for all the rest of the ships.

After all the Genoese would still build great ships no matter who ruled them, right?

About the admiral title (admiraal for Thijsp http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ) you are right, but they will need good generals anyway because they are VERY small on the map, and will be quite slow in producing a significative army.

Quote[/b] ]EC - they were a copy of Husaria, but they were not HUsaria, but much, much worse ( never charged pikemen for example) - still very interesting and powerful unit, useful against enemy cavalry.

They were worse, but I think we should have a good insight in why they were worse:

a.- Their training might be worse
b.- Their armour was unlikely to be worse (they probably either copied the polish one, or adopted the boyar heavy armor)
c.- Their horses were unlikely to be worse (although their charge could have a -2 speed compared to the polish one due to worse drilling)
c.- The lances and weapons were unlikely to be worse either.

So I think they should have the same fear causing features except for the pikemen. The same charge value,-1 morale, the same attack, -1 to defence, same armor, -2 to speed galloping and charging, and no elite status.

Only my idea tho.

Eastside Character

06-15-2004, 13:36

Quote[/b] (Hetman @ June 15 2004,05:38)]About religious agents - I've already implemented Protestant Preacher and Jesuits - and it was quite a long time ago.

Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif
I know.
Quote[/b] (Eastside Character @ June 14 2004,18:41)]Ideas (not necessarily all mine, but so to have it all in one place):

My main point was to have fewer religious agents and have them influencing religion much less than in vanilla game. Just an idea. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-anxious.gif

Regards,
EC

Eastside Character

06-15-2004, 13:58

Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ June 15 2004,07:35)]c.- Their horses were unlikely to be worse (although their charge could have a -2 speed compared to the polish one due to worse drilling)
I think their horses were very much likely to be worse than those used by Husaria. By worse I mean slightly slower, less resilient, and not as well trained. Husaria's horses were bred only in Poland and never sold abroad. They were too precious to sell them in the first place, not only abroad but at all. Though particular specimens could differ a bit from one another, they were all trained in the same way and were mostly cross-breds of Polish horses and Turkish breeds. I find it hard to believe the Russians would go so far as to copy that unique type of horse, that was developed and improved for more than a century.

Regards,
EC

SwordsMaster

06-15-2004, 14:02

Well, ok, make them slower, but I am saying that the russians had access to german and turkish horses aswell, so... Anyway, I leave that in your hands, as you for sure know more than I do about the subject.

here (http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/riley/787/30/) is a good link abouth the 30 years war with images of gens and kings for each faction. Hope it helps.

wilpuri

06-15-2004, 14:08

I don't think the Finnish units in the Swedish army differed much from the Swedish, german, etc units, but they were known as hakkapeliittas because of their battle cry... but I'm not sure if they should be a unit on their own. Of course, they could be a cheaper unit, and would so make up a bigger portion of the army, because historically more finns had to serve in the army (in relation to their population) than swedes. Also nearly half of the Swedish cavalry was finnish (around the time of the 30 year war, IIRC).. But its up to you what to make of it.

ThijsP

06-15-2004, 14:19

Citaat[/b] (Hetman @ Juni 15 2004,05:31)]ThijsP

Please translate names of Dutch units - plural and singular forms.

UNits :

Dutch Pikemen,

Dutch Musketeers,

Dutch Mounted Harquebusiers,

We need translation of words 'pikemen', 'musketers' and 'mounted arquebusiers' in Dutch - adjective 'dutch' shouldn't be translated.

Thank You.
unit-sing-plural

Dutch pikemen - Piekenier - Piekeniers
Dutch musketeers - Musketier - Musketiers
Dutch Mounted Harquebusiers - Bereden Harquebusier - Bereden Harquebusiers
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

Eastside Character

06-15-2004, 17:52

SwordsMaster, very good link that about the 3o years war. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasaryes.gif

I've already made something like 50-70 portraits apart from those at my pages. I've also made 6 new battle flags: English, Portuguese, Crimean, Turkish, Georgian and there is also that Swedish flag I made before. There are some new info pics for units too. I'll try to upload all that tonight or tomorrow for you to see.

One more word about the portraits; though I didn't want to do so before it seems that we just have to use black-and-white pics (there are too few color pics around). Only that I colorize those non-color pics so they look rather fine, once again - you'll see. So if you have any black-and-white or monochrome pics of generals, princes, kings etc., they can be used too (well after they are made color).

Regards,
EC

azid

06-15-2004, 20:28

i have to ask how we will handle germany ? many small states?
And will there be a new campaign map? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

good work all=)

SwordsMaster

06-15-2004, 20:39

I think half of it is going to be Habsburg, and the rest will be the 2-3 biggest territories. Or rebels. But I dont really like the rebel option. The swiss should be a faction, and then Brandemburg, Bohemia, and a couple more duchies should be fine. All with practically the same unit roster.

Eastside Character

06-15-2004, 20:39

Quote[/b] (azid @ June 15 2004,14:28)]1. i have to ask how we will handle germany ? many small states?

2. And will there be a new campaign map? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
1. For now we have Switzerland, Austria, Bavaria and Brandenburg, but I'd rather have more German factions so not to leave any German regions rebel. The current map makes it hard to include some of the factions there should be.

2. The first release will most probably use the map we have now. Making the new one would be a complicated and long process, but it'd be certainly great to have a new, better campmap.

Regards,
EC

SwordsMaster

06-15-2004, 20:42

Hey, simultaneous posts

BTW, about the map, couldn´t we use the Med Mod one?
just wondering as it seems to be quite a bit more detailed than the vanilla one. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-lost.gif

wilpuri

06-15-2004, 20:42

I've gathered a few Swedish names, thrown in a few german and finnish ones (only 1-2) to make it more realistic for the time period, and voilá:

first names
Gustaf
Nils
Johan
Erik
Carl
Fredrik
August
Gunnar
Adolf
Alfred
Anders
Birger
Bjarne
Björn
Hans
Henrik
Jan
Jarl
Bengt
Göran
Knut
Krister
Kristian
Lars
Leif
Magnus
Mathias
Martin
Mikael
Olof
Olav
Pehr
Paul
Simon
Stefan
Sven
Sten
Thomas
Tor
Valdemar
Benjamin
Bertil
Claus
Daniel
Claes
Otto
Jacob
Mårten
Jens
Larens
Tore
Tomas
Eskel
Clemen
Staffan
Mans
Mons
Ingwar
Edgard
Daan
Bernt
Engelbert
Eugen
Helge
Peder
Jöns
Lennart
Sigmund
Sigleif
Valter
Torsten
Josef
Ivar
Ernst
Einar
Axel
Svante
Jonas
Matts
Johannes

Last names
Eriksson
Johansson
Gustafsson
Andersson
Carlsson
Svensson
Bonde
Nilsson
Thorsson
Persson
Hendricksson
Torkelsson
Strahl
Ståhl
Rosbrack
Hartman
Stockman
Fisk
Stålkofta
Jonsson
Björnsson
Gunnarsson
Leithoine
Korckoinen
Ekman
Forsberg
Torstensson
Ascholin
Jansson
Widmark
Smidh
Finne
Knecht
Weimer
Osterberg
Reimann
Osterholm
Holm
Asplund
Lund
Sköld
Holdt
Grubb
Wallroth
Adolfsson
Gyllenstierna
Armfelt
Elgenstierna
Palmstierna
Dahl
Oxenstierna
Gyllenberg
Stensson
Granbom
Lagerfelt
Ljunggren
Lund
Mattsson
Store

Princess names
Christina
Ulrika
Eleonora
Margareta
Birgitta
Katrina
Brita
Sofia
Carolina
Charlotta
Maria
Lucia
Elisabeth
Magdalena
Emilia
Augusta
Anna
Ingrid
Gunilla
Karin
Louise
Catherine

Eastside Character

06-15-2004, 20:43

Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ June 15 2004,14:39)]The swiss should be a faction, and then Brandemburg, Bohemia, and a couple more duchies should be fine. All with practically the same unit roster.
About Bohemia, well I don't think so. It was either Hungarian (early period) or Austrian Habsburg's (high and late).

Regards,
EC

Eastside Character

06-15-2004, 20:48

Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ June 15 2004,14:42)]Hey, simultaneous posts

BTW, about the map, couldn´t we use the Med Mod one?
just wondering as it seems to be quite a bit more detailed than the vanilla one. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-lost.gif
I'm afraid we can't use Med Mod campmap, and for reasons I really wouldn't like to discuss here...

Simultaneous posts? Ah, well, it happends. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Quote[/b] (wipluri @ June 15 2004,14:43)]I've gathered a few Swedish names, thrown in a few german and finnish ones (only 1-2) to make it more realistic for the time period, and voilá:
Very good http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif But you could have posted it in that research thread.

Regards,
EC

azid

06-15-2004, 21:07

wow everyone is busy posting now, yes i agree the map we are using now is very limited how hard would it be to make a new one? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif

Hetman

06-16-2004, 10:16

Quote[/b] (azid @ June 15 2004,15:07)]wow everyone is busy posting now, yes i agree the map we are using now is very limited how hard would it be to make a new one? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif
Very.

Hetman

06-16-2004, 10:18

azid

I need singular forms as well.

I think it si possible to add the units You proposed.

SwordsMaster

Are the Russians going to have any religious agents? I am just wondering because noone mentioned it before.

Some kind of orthodox priest.

DEAD MOROZ

Please check these names

Kormovye Draguny ( Dragun)or Komarits Draguny ( Dragun)

Inozemniy Reytary - Inozemniy Reytar

Datochnye Gorodovye ( and Vybrannye) Mushketery

Datochnye Gorodovye ( and Vybrannye) Kopeyshchiki

Think that Russians must have a kind of harquebusers in Early period. I'll give you the name and description later. Also I'll give descriptions for other units soon.

They should use mercenary arquebusiers I believe - firearms were quite rare at that time in eastern Europe ( Poland, Hungary and so on).

ABOUT AGENTS - the list

in early - only weak bishops ( catholic and orthodox) and protestant preachers ( impressive conversion rating).

in high - Counter-reformation begins - so Jesuits, but onlyfor certain factions - 'tolerant' factions won't be able to produce any religious agents at all ( converting only using buildings, fortunatelly).

SO

Catholic Bishop - small conversion power, not for every faction, though.

Orthodox Priest - quite high conv. power, affects zeal as well.

Protestant Preacher - high conv. power, affects zeal.

Jesuit - high conv. power, affects zeal.

Papal Legate - Pope only, with very little influence on religion.

Inquisitor - Spain and Portugal only ( ?).

About Muslim I don't know.

TO ALL - about factions - the list is on page 7 with the units for the mod. Firs read, second write.

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Dead Moroz

06-16-2004, 11:14

I edited the list of Russian units - changed some names and dates, added harquebusers for Early era. Check up my post on page 14.

SwordsMaster

06-16-2004, 12:52

@Dead Moroz:
Quote[/b] ]Lancers (copy of polish pancerni) - Stremenniye Kopeyshchiki (not sure about this name). Plur. - Stremenniye Kopeyshchiki, sing. - Stremennoy Kopeyshchik. Late period. In Chernigov only. And I'm also not sure this unit is necessary.

Woulnt it better be kopeyniki?

@Hetman, Im happy enough with the religious agents.

Dead Moroz

06-16-2004, 12:58

Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ June 16 2004,15:52)]@Dead Moroz:
Quote[/b] ]Lancers (copy of polish pancerni) - Stremenniye Kopeyshchiki (not sure about this name). Plur. - Stremenniye Kopeyshchiki, sing. - Stremennoy Kopeyshchik. Late period. In Chernigov only. And I'm also not sure this unit is necessary.

Woulnt it better be kopeyniki?
Maybe. But kopeyshchiki is more widespread word, at least in modern Russian language.

SwordsMaster

06-16-2004, 13:45

@Dead Moroz, ok, no prob http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Suggestion: Make almos all of the units region-specific. Because the most of the armies recruited not only in their homelands but abroad as well, or will that be depictedby the merc resource?

Dead Moroz

06-16-2004, 13:47

Quote[/b] (Hetman @ June 16 2004,13:18)]Kormovye Draguny ( Dragun)or Komarits Draguny ( Dragun)

Inozemniy Reytary - Inozemniy Reytar

Datochnye Gorodovye ( and Vybrannye) Mushketery

Datochnye Gorodovye ( and Vybrannye) Kopeyshchiki
Kormovye Draguny and Komarits Draguny are just common Dragoons (Draguny - see my list of Russian units). Kormovye means that they own land for service in army. Komarits is the name of town Komarits in the south of Russia where that squad of Dragoons lived.

Inozemniye Reytary are just Reiters (Reytary). Inozemniye means western style here. Every Reiters in Russia were Inozemniye (so this word is not necessary).

Gorodovye means garrison in town. It's not a kind of troops but just a place of service.

Datochnye Mushketery and Datochnye Kopeyshchiki are just Mushketery (or Soldaty) and Kopeyshchiki. Datochnye means they were conscripted. Soldaty and Kopeyshchiki were Western style infantry in Russia. They were recruited by two ways: 1 - hired for payment; 2 - conscripted from among countryside and maybe town population.

Vybrannye were guardsmen. Vybrannye means chosen (axemen http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ). They were not an unique type of troops. There were just squads of common Streltsy, Soldaty, Draguny, etc. consisted of better soldiers and garrisoned in Moscow (the capital of Russia that time). It's not necessary to make a separate unit for Vybrannye (Guard). The role of Vybrannye may play units with higher morale, defense, attack, etc. statistics they got after successful battles.

SwordsMaster

06-16-2004, 14:11

suggestion here: If you build certain building that increases valor or something, you could name the units to Vybranniye to reflect that they were slightly superior, but that is a more esthetic issue.

Another suggestion: We could call all the units built as mercenaries Inozemnye because they were not russian, but mercenaries, and so were strangers which is what the word means.

BTW, Soldat does not mean musketeer or any other type of troop, but any man that served for pay (i.e. professional) it comes from the french Sould (pay) which comes from latin solidus that was the type of coin the soldiers were paid with.

BTW, the word wasn´t used till the Louis XIV reforms of the french army.

azid

06-16-2004, 19:36

musketman - musketerare same in singular and plural

pikeman - pikenerare same in singular and plural

horseman - ryttare from german Reitar (SP?) same in singular and plural

cavalry - kavalleri

Dead Moroz

06-16-2004, 21:54

Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ June 16 2004,17:11)]suggestion here: If you build certain building that increases valor or something, you could name the units to Vybranniye to reflect that they were slightly superior, but that is a more esthetic issue.

Do you really need it? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Just chose (vybrat) the best squads among your troops and merge them into one army guarding your king or/and capital. So these units will be Vybranniye (Chosen). http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ June 16 2004,17:11)]Another suggestion: We could call all the units built as mercenaries Inozemnye because they were not russian, but mercenaries, and so were strangers which is what the word means.

No No No Russian Inozemniye troops were not mercenaries... Almost not. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif Almost because at the beginning they were mercenaries consisted of foreign people. But soon Russians (not mercenaries) became the backbone of these troops, foreigner were officers only. These squads was called Inozemniye (verbatim foreign) not because they consisted of mercenaries, but because they tried to copy western armament and tactics. I suspect that in Russia of XVII century the term Western meant rather Polish then German, English, French, etc.. Russian Inozemniye troops most likely looked like Polish dragoons, musketeers, pikemen, etc. I'll try to find out more info about this question.

Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ June 16 2004,17:11)]BTW, Soldat does not mean musketeer or any other type of troop, but any man that served for pay (i.e. professional) it comes from the french Sould (pay) which comes from latin solidus that was the type of coin the soldiers were paid with.

BTW, the word wasnґt used till the Louis XIV reforms of the french army.

As I know, Soltad/Soldaty was the name of infantry units of Inozemniye troops - musketeers and pikemen. Maybe unofficial name. Maybe it appeared only in the end of XVII century. No doubt this name has French or Latin origins. That troops were a copy of western troops and they were the first Russian troops who served for pay.

SwordsMaster

06-16-2004, 22:21

Soldier was any man who served for money, so I guess the russians just adopted the french term from the germans or poles as they adopted their tactics.

About the chosen, you are possibly right, there isn´t much point.

About the mercs, well I know you are right, but I still kinda like the idea that that way you can express their foreign procedence.

BTW, as far as I know there were very little inozemniy troops in Russia til Peter the great. some Royal guards, and 2 polka of musketeers, and a similar number of cavalry. That was all.

Dead Moroz

06-17-2004, 07:56

Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ June 17 2004,01:21)]BTW, as far as I know there were very little inozemniy troops in Russia til Peter the great. some Royal guards, and 2 polka of musketeers, and a similar number of cavalry. That was all.
I've thought it too before. But now I have better information. The number of inozemniy cavalry was not very big, much lesser then number of pomestnaya cavalry (common Russian cavalry). But the number of inozemniy infantry was really great; if I understood right, in the middle of 17 century it was much more then number of streltsy (traditional Russian infantry).

Eastside Character

06-17-2004, 11:21

I uploaded some of the files I made to My Pages, so you can see them now. I added battle flags (6) and portraits (115). The new info pics I'll add later.

Regards,
EC

Hetman

06-17-2004, 11:38

Russian Husaria 'Gusary'- the stats

speed - normal 10/20/18 - they had good horses, but not so resilient as polish, but cheaper I believe.

armour 4 - I've read they had less armour than the Polish Husaria.

charge 9, attack 3 ( not so skilled, worse weaponry), +2 attacking cavalry ( same lances, not sure they had wings though), the same defence, morale 6 ( Husaria has 8) because not use loose formation so often, fighting in 1 rank ( not so skilled to use deep and packed knee-to-knee formation).
formation - FORMED, but not so narrow as the polish unit.

Less expensive, but will require 2 years to build, in Novgorod only.

SwordsMaster

Well, ok, make them slower, but I am saying that the russians had access to german and turkish horses aswell,

German horses were too heavy to use them in Husaria.

wilpuri

.. But its up to you what to make of it.

I want as many interesting units as possible, including all regional ones, that's what I'm asking for translations.

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

SwordsMaster

06-17-2004, 12:55

@EC, You included Richelieu with the Venetians.

About Charles V portraits, use the one where he is wearing armor for a general, and the other one for Charles himself. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif We get 2 for the price of 1.

Eastside Character

06-17-2004, 13:54

Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ June 17 2004,06:55)]@EC, You included Richelieu with the Venetians.
Richelieu is where he is because I don't yet have enough French portraits and still I wanted to put all I have there. And after Richelieu, those are Genoese Doges, not Venetians, which are a bit further. There is a sign saying GENOESE after Richelieu's portrait. Don't actually pay too much attention where are some certain portraits as I simply wanted to present as much of them on relatively small space, so they aren't perfectly divided into specific factions (there are eg. some Spanish portraits among those I called Dutch etc.).

I was thinking, it may be difficult to have complete different sets of portraits for every and each faction (about 60-100 per one category - general etc.). What's more, some of the portraits for Genoese, Spanish, Venetians, Dutch, look very much alike. What would you say for having a certain amount of common portraits, obviously with some reasonable number of faction-specific portraits (for kings, princes, princesses, some most important generals etc.)? It doesn't have to be that way, but more portraits are needed. And I really mean more (some couple of hundreds).

Regards,
EC

SwordsMaster

06-17-2004, 14:00

Quote[/b] ]Richelieu is where he is because I don't yet have enough French portraits and still I wanted to put all I have there. And after Richelieu, those are Genoese Doges, not Venetians, which are a bit further http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-oops.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif sorry

Quote[/b] ]I was thinking, it may be difficult to have complete different sets of portraits for every and each faction (about 60-100 per one category - general etc.). What's more, some of the portraits for Genoese, Spanish, Venetians, Dutch, look very much alike. What would you say for having a certain amount of common portraits, obviously with some reasonable number of faction-specific portraits (for kings, princes, princesses, some most important generals etc.)

Yes, I thought abput that too, Maybe leave the kings and princes faction-specific and put everything else in a general pool, except the turks, because they are kinda obvious http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .

I´ll try to find more portraits anyway. Anyhing from that timeframe will serve, right?

SwordsMaster

06-17-2004, 14:24

there (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=www.sispain.org/SiSpain/gifs/lang.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.sispain.org/english/language/lang.html&h=287&w=401&sz=79&tbnid=f_lBEoDnpNMJ:&tbnh=84&tbnw=118&start=2&prev=/images%3Fq%3DVelazquez%252Bprado%26hl%3Des%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8) you can probably get 2-3 pics.

You can get Velazquez himself and a couple of ladies from here (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=www.mystudios.com/art/bar/velazquez/velazquez-las-meninas.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mystudios.com/art/bar/velazquez/velazquez-las-meninas.html&h=900&w=767&sz=106&tbnid=ZgbExU_M47EJ:&tbnh=144&tbnw=123&start=8&prev=/images%3Fq%3DVelazquez%252Bprado%26hl%3Des%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8)

maybe another pic can be extracted from here (http://www.utexas.edu/courses/larrymyth/images/XA-forge-vulcan-velazquez.jpg)

another pic here (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=www.iupui.edu/~lmena1/velazquez/desayuno.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.iupui.edu/~lmena1/velazquez/&h=500&w=483&sz=47&tbnid=R5UzESUO4qoJ:&tbnh=126&tbnw=122&start=17&prev=/images%3Fq%3DVelazquez%252Bprado%26hl%3Des%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8)

Velazquez himself here (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=www.iupui.edu/~lmena1/velazquez/desayuno.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.iupui.edu/~lmena1/velazquez/&h=500&w=483&sz=47&tbnid=R5UzESUO4qoJ:&tbnh=126&tbnw=122&start=17&prev=/images%3Fq%3DVelazquez%252Bprado%26hl%3Des%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8)

the pope Inocencio (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=www.iupui.edu/~lmena1/velazquez/desayuno.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.iupui.edu/~lmena1/velazquez/&h=500&w=483&sz=47&tbnid=R5UzESUO4qoJ:&tbnh=126&tbnw=122&start=17&prev=/images%3Fq%3DVelazquez%252Bprado%26hl%3Des%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8)

another picture here (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=www.iupui.edu/~lmena1/velazquez/desayuno.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.iupui.edu/~lmena1/velazquez/&h=500&w=483&sz=47&tbnid=R5UzESUO4qoJ:&tbnh=126&tbnw=122&start=17&prev=/images%3Fq%3DVelazquez%252Bprado%26hl%3Des%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8)

and another one here (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=www.iupui.edu/~lmena1/velazquez/desayuno.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.iupui.edu/~lmena1/velazquez/&h=500&w=483&sz=47&tbnid=R5UzESUO4qoJ:&tbnh=126&tbnw=122&start=17&prev=/images%3Fq%3DVelazquez%252Bprado%26hl%3Des%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8)

the prince Ferdinand here (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=www.iupui.edu/~lmena1/velazquez/desayuno.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.iupui.edu/~lmena1/velazquez/&h=500&w=483&sz=47&tbnid=R5UzESUO4qoJ:&tbnh=126&tbnw=122&start=17&prev=/images%3Fq%3DVelazquez%252Bprado%26hl%3Des%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8)

The queen Isabel de Borbon there (http://www.artunframed.com/images/artmis68/velazqh.jpg)

another picture (http://www.sas.ac.uk/warburg/institute/students/images/paco.jpg)

some paintings by Titian can be found here (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=www.spanisharts.com/prado/tiziano/tiziano.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.spanisharts.com/prado/titian.htm&h=161&w=161&sz=4&tbnid=GQnsC8_RPp8J:&tbnh=92&tbnw=92&start=5&prev=/images%3Fq%3DTiziano%252Bprado%26hl%3Des%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DG)

another pic here (http://www.cora24.com/fotos/TizianoMuseoPrado1.jpg)

a gentleman (http://www.mystudios.com/art/italian/titian/titian-gentleman.jpg)

another Pope here (http://www.lyons.co.uk/Titian/images/PopeD.jpg)

Thats it for now. If there is any problem give me a shout http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

wilpuri

06-17-2004, 15:06

Quote[/b] (Hetman @ June 17 2004,05:38)]wilpuri

.. But its up to you what to make of it.

I want as many interesting units as possible, including all regional ones, that's what I'm asking for translations.

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
If hakkapeliitta infantry is going to be included, then they're only special quality might be that they're cheaper.. And they should be called Finnish Pikemen/ Finnish Infantry/ Finnish musketeers or Finska Pikenerare/ Finska Musketerare

Eastside Character

06-17-2004, 19:52

Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ June 17 2004,06:55)]About Charles V portraits, use the one where he is wearing armor for a general, and the other one for Charles himself. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif We get 2 for the price of 1.
Well, he's wearing armor in all three pics. Let's say the one where he's wearing a helmet is 1, next to the right is 2, and so the next one is 3. So now which should be used for a general and which one for His Highness Emperor Carlos V Habsburg?

And about the links to portraits you've provided, there are some usable pics there, thanks. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Regards,
EC

azid

06-17-2004, 21:21

Quote[/b] (wilpuri @ June 17 2004,09:06)]
Quote[/b] (Hetman @ June 17 2004,05:38)]wilpuri

.. But its up to you what to make of it.

I want as many interesting units as possible, including all regional ones, that's what I'm asking for translations.

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
If hakkapeliitta infantry is going to be included, then they're only special quality might be that they're cheaper.. And they should be called Finnish Pikemen/ Finnish Infantry/ Finnish musketeers or Finska Pikenerare/ Finska Musketerare
Hakkapeliittas were the Finnish cavalry of the Swedish army. Gustaf II Adolf significantly developed the tactics and training of the army, making the Swedish army possibly the most efficient during the 30 Years War. The light cavalry had an important mobile role in the tactics. As the voluntary Finnish cavalry had many of the better horses (in contrast to smaller Swedish horses) and able men it became a feared elite force during the 17th century.
-from one of my schoolbooks

SwordsMaster

06-17-2004, 21:25

I think number 1 should be the gen, and number 3 the Emperor and just get rid of numb 2.

TheSilverKnight

06-17-2004, 23:58

When can we expect a release of this mod? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

wilpuri

06-18-2004, 05:32

Quote[/b] (azid @ June 17 2004,15:21)]
Quote[/b] (wilpuri @ June 17 2004,09:06)]
Quote[/b] (Hetman @ June 17 2004,05:38)]wilpuri

.. But its up to you what to make of it.

I want as many interesting units as possible, including all regional ones, that's what I'm asking for translations.

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
If hakkapeliitta infantry is going to be included, then they're only special quality might be that they're cheaper.. And they should be called Finnish Pikemen/ Finnish Infantry/ Finnish musketeers or Finska Pikenerare/ Finska Musketerare
Hakkapeliittas were the Finnish cavalry of the Swedish army. Gustaf II Adolf significantly developed the tactics and training of the army, making the Swedish army possibly the most efficient during the 30 Years War. The light cavalry had an important mobile role in the tactics. As the voluntary Finnish cavalry had many of the better horses (in contrast to smaller Swedish horses) and able men it became a feared elite force during the 17th century.
-from one of my schoolbooks
I know that, but I've also read, that some of the Finnish infantry was called Hakkapeliittas as well because they used the same battle cry. Not much difference between the infantry conscripted in Sweden at the time, so I don't know if a separate unit for Finnish infantry will be needed.

Dead Moroz

06-18-2004, 08:28

2 Eastside Character
Nice pic for description of Polish Hussars:

http://www.soldiers-russia.com/new_soldiers/medieval_europe/po1.JPG

Hetman

06-18-2004, 08:54

UNITS

There are going to be five categories of units in the mod.

1. For everybody, everywhere

- very few units - some types of urban militia and peasant-like units

example - Town militia in the unit list.

2. Regional units in certain provinces for everybody

e.g. Moldavian Cavalry

3. Regional units, but for certain factions only.

e.g. most of Cossack units

4. Mercenaries - recruitable in provinces with this trade good

e.g. Mercenary Arquebusiers

5. National units in homelands

- most of units in the mod

+ of cource 'normal' mercenaries possible to hire in INN.

This way some provinces are going to be very important even though they
do not offer high income, good provincional titles or else.

Dead Moroz

I used the names from the webside to which You got the link.

if I understood right, in the middle of 17 century it was much more then number of streltsy (traditional Russian infantry).

----In the 1663 the Russian field army against Poland consisted of:

- 42 Infantry regiments - 24,377 men
- 8 Dragoon regiments - 9,334
- 22 Reiter regiments - 18,795
- 2 Lancer regiments - 1,185
- 1 Hussars - 757------------- these are only the numbers of 'western' russian units, and it was after crushing defeats in 1660.

----About russian arquebusiers - they can have the unit, but will not be able to build mercenary arquebusiers or any other mercenary 'western' units from 'early'.

I UPDATED UNIT LIST (PAGE 7) ADDING NATIONAL NAMES - PLEASE CHECK.
For now I added two types of Russian conscripts, but maybe I'll remove
'chosen' units.

BTW - I asked the guy who wrote the description of XVIIth century russian army and according to him russian husaria was using 'wings' as well.

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Dead Moroz

06-18-2004, 10:09

This pic may be useful for description of nomad warriors:

1. Adygei (Northern Caucasia)
2. Nogay
3. Kalmyk (Volga basin)

http://www.ruslan-com.ru/zotov/turk_5.jpg

Datka

06-18-2004, 10:32

Hetman

Why is Georgia in a list of the factions, which won't be in the first release? :)

Regards, Datka

azid

06-18-2004, 16:28

Quote[/b] (wilpuri @ June 17 2004,23:32)]
Quote[/b] (azid @ June 17 2004,15:21)]
Quote[/b] (wilpuri @ June 17 2004,09:06)]
Quote[/b] (Hetman @ June 17 2004,05:38)]wilpuri

.. But its up to you what to make of it.

I want as many interesting units as possible, including all regional ones, that's what I'm asking for translations.

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
If hakkapeliitta infantry is going to be included, then they're only special quality might be that they're cheaper.. And they should be called Finnish Pikemen/ Finnish Infantry/ Finnish musketeers or Finska Pikenerare/ Finska Musketerare
Hakkapeliittas were the Finnish cavalry of the Swedish army. Gustaf II Adolf significantly developed the tactics and training of the army, making the Swedish army possibly the most efficient during the 30 Years War. The light cavalry had an important mobile role in the tactics. As the voluntary Finnish cavalry had many of the better horses (in contrast to smaller Swedish horses) and able men it became a feared elite force during the 17th century.
-from one of my schoolbooks
I know that, but I've also read, that some of the Finnish infantry was called Hakkapeliittas as well because they used the same battle cry. Not much difference between the infantry conscripted in Sweden at the time, so I don't know if a separate unit for Finnish infantry will be needed.
nope maybe if we have a lot of room over for more varied units but youre right it really isnt necessary.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-curtain.gif shhh im coming for you

what else can I do o mighty leaders?

Hetman

06-19-2004, 09:07

Quote[/b] (azid @ June 18 2004,10:28)]
Quote[/b] (wilpuri @ June 17 2004,23:32)]
Quote[/b] (azid @ June 17 2004,15:21)]
Quote[/b] (wilpuri @ June 17 2004,09:06)]
Quote[/b] (Hetman @ June 17 2004,05:38)]wilpuri

.. But its up to you what to make of it.

I want as many interesting units as possible, including all regional ones, that's what I'm asking for translations.

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
If hakkapeliitta infantry is going to be included, then they're only special quality might be that they're cheaper.. And they should be called Finnish Pikemen/ Finnish Infantry/ Finnish musketeers or Finska Pikenerare/ Finska Musketerare
Hakkapeliittas were the Finnish cavalry of the Swedish army. Gustaf II Adolf significantly developed the tactics and training of the army, making the Swedish army possibly the most efficient during the 30 Years War. The light cavalry had an important mobile role in the tactics. As the voluntary Finnish cavalry had many of the better horses (in contrast to smaller Swedish horses) and able men it became a feared elite force during the 17th century.
-from one of my schoolbooks
I know that, but I've also read, that some of the Finnish infantry was called Hakkapeliittas as well because they used the same battle cry. Not much difference between the infantry conscripted in Sweden at the time, so I don't know if a separate unit for Finnish infantry will be needed.
nope maybe if we have a lot of room over for more varied units but youre right it really isnt necessary.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-curtain.gif shhh im coming for you

what else can I do o mighty leaders?
OK I can delete this Finnish infantry.

I will ask Lords for permission for some of their graphics -
necessary for flintlock musket armed units.

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Hetman

06-19-2004, 09:10

Quote[/b] (Datka @ June 18 2004,04:32)]Hetman

Why is Georgia in a list of the factions, which won't be in the first release? :)

Regards, Datka
We do not have enough info about Georgia - check XVI-XVII research - You'll see what I mean.

Of course this could be changed - maybe I will use Golden Horde slot for Georgia.

Please post office titles, names, unit descriptions and I'll see.

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Eastside Character

06-19-2004, 13:13

Quote[/b] (Dead Moroz @ June 18 2004,02:28)]2 Eastside Character
Nice pic for description of Polish Hussars:
There is already an info pic made for this unit. Thanks for your intentions though.

I have another thing you could help with - portraits for Russians. If you find any (can be monochrome or black-and-white), let me know.

Regards,
EC

The Blind King of Bohemia

06-19-2004, 13:28

Just a quick unit idea if your doing england, the border reivers harsh and sturdy men from the north were seen by english and french and some italian comtemparies as the best light cavalry in western europe on par with Albanian stradiots. If you need pictures of these i've posted a few in the monastery.

The Blind King of Bohemia

06-19-2004, 14:04

www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/ PolArtCostumeWeapons.htm

That link might help with clothing and other things of the period but you might have seen it already

SwordsMaster

06-19-2004, 16:21

great link,BKB, thanks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Eastside Character

06-19-2004, 22:56

About unit graphics;

I was thinking of what unit graphics should I make now. If I get myself together I should finish graphics for Archeros unit tomorrow. Works on pikemen graphics are also at advanced stage. Earlier, I was going to make graphics usable for units like Pomestnaya Kavaleriya, Pancerni, Ottoman Sipahi and such, meaning eastern cavalry, but now I think that perhaps it'd be good to make graphics for raiters first (there is going to be quite a few raiter units in this mod as I can observe). You might have already noticed I'm more focused on cavalry graphics, but that's how it is now. You may also think it's strange I ask you that, but I simply can't decide myself and want to do something new in this matter (meaning unit graphics). My question to you is, what exactly should such raiter graphics should look like. Could you provide some good examples for generic raiter uniform? Thanks in advance.

Regards,
EC

The Blind King of Bohemia

06-19-2004, 23:48

Are you talking about reiters EC? I'll try to get some good pica for ya http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Eastside Character

06-20-2004, 09:00

Quote[/b] (The Blind King of Bohemia @ June 19 2004,17:48)]Are you talking about reiters EC? I'll try to get some good pica for ya http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Yes, reiters. I wasn't sure about the spelling. Thanks BKB http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Regards,
EC

Hetman

06-20-2004, 11:04

Quote[/b] (Datka @ June 18 2004,04:32)]Hetman

Why is Georgia in a list of the factions, which won't be in the first release? :)

Regards, Datka
I've already added Georgia, but without office titles, names and so on it's not going to be very accurate.

Second - the faction is quite boring at this moment, can You post more ideas for units ( maybe an archer unit) for this faction.

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

The Blind King of Bohemia

06-20-2004, 11:50

Right Reiters:

These were mainly auxillary units recruited throughout the HRE especially by Henry VIII in his invasions of France. He himself was disapointed by the quality of them. They only charged when they saw the enemy was truely beaten. Many were German but from various other parts especially Burgundy.

They were armed with Boresperes or short hand guns. They didn't use armour which they saw as cumbersome. At the battle of Pinkie in scotland the english used these to great effect when the reiters would fire, reload and fire at a constant rate and cause carnage in the scottish lines.

Also at the period were mounted arquebusiers known as Demi-hakes. They were handy at screening and guarding conveys but not great for a set battle.

The main English cavalry of the period were known as Demi-lance, who wore three quarter armour and a light lance which gave them there name.
They often wore distinctive red capes which were handy for bad weather. This was not a fashion statement

http://www.lukehistory.com/cavalry/Reiter01A.jpg

A reiter

http://www.lukehistory.com/cavalry/cavtypes.html

Try this sight for more

Try this for you polish boys, nice sight on war of the period

http://www.jasinski.co.uk/wojna/conflicts/conf02.htm

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

The Blind King of Bohemia

06-20-2004, 12:10

Also another unit was the free lancer, particularly of the Swabian league. Partial Gaunlets and breatplate, usual bright clothing much like the german mercenary types of the period, red being the most probable. Always had a animal tail of some sort at the end of their lance, like many other lancers of the period

Hope this help mates http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

azid

06-20-2004, 15:40

will the cavalry be capable of firing their arquebus and pistol so its not like in napolean total war where the cavalry are only capable of melee action?

The Blind King of Bohemia

06-20-2004, 15:47

They should fight mainly as a mounted crossbowman would, border reivers and reiters should have a good charge, and border should be on par with a mounted sergearnt unit but with a better combat bonus

SwordsMaster

06-20-2004, 16:06

@ azid, yes they will fire mounted, but they will have few bullets and will remain mainly melee, or thats how it seems to be going to work by now.

@ BKB great links m8 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

azid

06-20-2004, 16:20

yes very interesting links i understand now how poland could decline so much its almost a tragic story being picked on by everybody from all sides.
imo we have some clear borders in the time schedule
first in 1500 we have very late medieval type troops still knights etc. armoured troops
then in 1600 we get 80% musket type weapons and about 20% pikes for close defence then in the late 1600 wetern europ begins using bayonets and better muskets.
we could split it up into 3 technological parts early middle and late maybe yes? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-curtain.gif

SwordsMaster

06-20-2004, 17:21

Its done already, scroll up some pages, there are even screenies. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Eastside Character

06-20-2004, 19:55

Check out My Pages link in my sig, I added screens of Archeros to unit graphics page.

Regards,
EC

wilpuri

06-20-2004, 19:57

Quote[/b] (Eastside Character @ June 20 2004,13:55)]Check out My Pages link in my sig, I added screens of Archeros to unit graphics page.

Regards,
EC
looking good, as usual, EC http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

SwordsMaster

06-20-2004, 22:17

Great work EC.
They look perfect. Keept it up. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Hetman

06-21-2004, 09:28

I added new topic 'XVI-XVII results'. This way it should be easier to find any info about our mod and progress of the mod.

Anybody apart from EC don't post there anything - this is only for coordinating our work.

Thank you.

BTW I added 'trained band' units for the English.

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Hetman

06-21-2004, 09:32

Quote[/b] (wilpuri @ June 20 2004,13:57)]
Quote[/b] (Eastside Character @ June 20 2004,13:55)]Check out My Pages link in my sig, I added screens of Archeros to unit graphics page.

Regards,
EC
looking good, as usual, EC http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif
Please add Your name list to XVI-XVII research thread, this way You'll be able to edit it in the future ( and don't forget to add Your own ).

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

ThijsP

06-21-2004, 10:22

He Hetmen with already three treads maybe you should ask for a sub-forum. And those new units are looking good http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif .

SwordsMaster

06-21-2004, 17:34

Well, guys, It looks like Im going to be off to Spain for summer, so I will not be able to research actively. I will try to check the forums from time to time, and If you want me to translate something Im at your service. I will probably miss the release of the mod, but I will catch up later.

Enjoy the summer, and If there is anything urgent I can do in these last 2-3 days, let me know.

SwordsMaster

06-22-2004, 11:39

Ok, here is a quick overview of spain:

SPAIN REVISITED:

Native Spanish troops:
Available to Spain, buildable in Iberia (include Portugal), and the Balearic Islands.

Italian troops. Available to all catholics, buildable in Naples, Rome, Papal States, Tuscany, Milan, Venetia and Lombardy.

Wallon troops. Available to Spain, England, and the Netherlands, buildable in Flanders, Friesland.

The idea is to make the italian situation quite static, as both contendents will have the same type of units. In Flanders, Spain would have to import troops from Iberia in order to make a difference, and that should becountered by the Dutch and English navy, as it was in reality.

The Dutch would get really good commanders, which would balance the average quality of the troops.

I will work on the rest of the unit descriptions from Spain and update this from time to time. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Eastside Character

06-23-2004, 20:24

Hey guys, I was thinking, we need someone that could make new battle maps. If there's anybody out there willing to make some few maps for this Mod, come on and help. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Regards,
EC

Dead Moroz

06-24-2004, 20:34

I just found that some guys from Russian TW fan-site are preparing mod for XVI-XVII centuries. They concentrating on Eastern Europe. They gonna name it Ogniem i Mieczem. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I noticed they want to make unique music for each faction. That is good idea I think. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif How about making the same for our http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif mod? Is it possible?

Hetman

06-25-2004, 09:15

Quote[/b] (Dead Moroz @ June 24 2004,14:34)]1.I just found that some guys from Russian TW fan-site are preparing mod for XVI-XVII centuries. They concentrating on Eastern Europe. They gonna name it Ogniem i Mieczem. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

2.I noticed they want to make unique music for each faction. That is good idea I think. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif How about making the same for our http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif mod? Is it possible?
1. How about inviting some of them to our team ?

2. Yes it is possible to add 3 more 'lines' to the present ones ( Euro, Arab & Viking). Why not to do this - but we'll need to find something appriopriate.

I did make some changes in the past - e.g. I wanted to hear U2 during battles and it worked quite well.

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Dead Moroz

06-25-2004, 14:02

Quote[/b] (Hetman @ June 25 2004,12:15)][quote=Dead Moroz,June 24 2004,14:34]1.I just found that some guys from Russian TW fan-site are preparing mod for XVI-XVII centuries. They concentrating on Eastern Europe. They gonna name it Ogniem i Mieczem. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

1. How about inviting some of them to our team ?
These guys knows about our work. Maybe some of them are already among us... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif

This is example of portrait they gonna use in mod. The shape of pic became oval.

http://www.twowgallery.myrunet.com/albums/userpics/Eskiz.jpg

Eastside Character

06-25-2004, 20:05

It's funny to see Khmelnitsky as John Monford (?). But one pic says less than 10 pics, so could you post here a link to their forum/site Dead Moroz?

Regards,
EC

Earl of Sandwich

06-25-2004, 21:06

I'm looked through the army lists, and I see that their are landsknecht halberdiers, arquebusiers, and pikemen. What about landsknechts armed with zweihanders?

AlexPeters

06-26-2004, 05:49

Hi,

i think you mean the so called Doppelsoldner. Armed with large bihanders, either plain or flamed (aka Flamberg).
Each Flag contained 100 of them, they build up the first 2 lines and should break the momentum of an attack and the formation of the enemy.
Many of them were nobles, some of them heavily armoured and the name Doppelsoldner means twice the payment of a regular, because of their exposed position in the formation they had to be payed better of course (in fact twice).
Besoldung und Bewaffnung (http://www.edvdam.at/landsknechte/lkdoc07.htm)
http://www.st-max.org/images/woodcuts/Doppelsoldner-5.jpg
http://www.st-max.org/images/woodcuts/Doppelsoldner-1.jpg
Would require a new unit bif i think, but implementing them would add another unit to the imho small rooster of the normal (not eastern european or spanish) countries rooster.
I like them, no-dachis in europe - lol.
Another unit is imho also missing the Hartschier (Pl. Hartschiere). They were part of the life guards of bavaria (see pic below) and austria and named by their weapon a short pike with a blade on its top (comparable to a Naginata). Bavaria used this kind of troops until 1852 as their ceremonial guards.
http://www.bryertons.com/39d.jpg. I think some units of them were mounted. Could be the royal units of Bavaria and Austria (if you plan to include those states as factions).

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif Alex

Earl of Sandwich

06-26-2004, 22:28

Quote[/b] ]i think you mean the so called Doppelsoldner.

Yeah, but I wasn't quite sure if that referred to the zweihanders specifically, but that's precisely what I mean.

AlexPeters

06-27-2004, 07:08

I found two additional units that could be useful:
Venetian Stradiots (Light Horse)
> picture (1570) (http://www.zinnfigur.com/shop/images/ware/8/811_10050.jpg)
Quote: ./. These were irregular Balkan cavalry, originally survivors of Scanderbeg's struggle with the Turks in Albania, but later recruited from Greeks and Croats as well. They dressed in Turkish style and rode Turkish horses, but instead of turbans wore caps or helmets; for protection they at first had mail and Turkish style shields, later relying on helmet and breastplate. Their most characteristic weapon was a short throwing and thrusting spear with points at both ends called an assagaye (assegai), and they also favored mace and curved sword; some had crossbows or light lances. Though renowned for ferocity, they were undisciplined and tended to disappear in the direction of the enemy camp or baggage train early in any action, though they were useful for raids and ambuscades../.
read and see more ... (http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_armies_italy.html)
and
Bavarian Black Cuirassiers
> picture (http://www.histomin.com/linepeg/mppg5m15.jpg)
(pic shows standard bearer, they were armed equally to the Reiters, no lances, black curass)
They were the elite of the heavy cavalry in the campaigns of the catholic league and their commander was von Pappenheim (sometimes they were called Pappenheimer). They were fearless and often attacked without assistance and/or orders.
The Austrians could get access to them also, i think.
I suggest normal values for heavy Reiters, +1 valor and moral , above average defence value (they were often used to protect the withdrawal), 'heavily armoured' and 'charge without orders' if it's not included already.
The bif of the heavy Reiters could also be used for this unit.

Alex

The Blind King of Bohemia

06-27-2004, 13:46

I assume landsneckhts will be in the game? Well if they are you could put an interesting mercenary unit in for the french and this was the Black legion or black band who were landsneckhts refused to return to germany after an edict made by Emperor maximillian. They were led by the duke of guelders and fought for the french until they all destroyed at the battle of pavia in 1525.

AlexPeters

06-28-2004, 09:44

Hi,

i don't know for sure but the black band was for sure a well known mercenary unit but they weren't special regarding their mixture. Mostly Pikemen and some Riders (up to 7000 in total), but nothing special. I don't know whether they should get their own unit. We could use the names of their commanders for the mercenaries instead.
Here are the names of some mercenary commanders, some of them of the black band:

Georg von Frundsberg (maybe as a wuertemberg hero)
Sebastian Schärtlin
Wilhelm von Fürstenberg
Marx Sittich von Ems
Jakob von Embs
Fabian von Schlaberndorf
Richard de la Pole (1521 leader of the black band at pavia)
Wolf von Lupfen
Karl zu Orttenburg
Duke of Lothringen
Count of Nassau
Hans von Brandeck
Martin Schwarz
Ritter Wilwolt von Schaumburg
Neidhart Fuchs
Thomas Slentz
Christoph von Houwald
Hans von Brandeck (maybe as a wuertemberg hero)
Wolf von Lupfen (maybe as a wuertemberg hero)
Georg Langenmantel (maybe as a bavarian hero)

If we know for whom they fight the most time, we could assign them as heroes for that faction as well.

Another interesting website:
uniforms, flags and names of units (including leader names) of the nordic countries (http://www.megalink.net/~dschorr/)
Covers the swedish, danish, polish and cossak armies. Focus on the early wars of Gustav Adolf.
The description of the battles show the names of all contending regiments.

Alex

Dead Moroz

06-28-2004, 13:47

Quote[/b] (Eastside Character @ June 25 2004,23:05)]It's funny to see Khmelnitsky as John Monford (?). But one pic says less than 10 pics, so could you post here a link to their forum/site Dead Moroz?

Regards,
EC
That's the link (http://www.twow.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=1085).
You have to register to view pictures attached to posts (strange system http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif ).

Dead Moroz

06-29-2004, 14:05

I have idea about Crimean Tatars (sorry if it was mentioned before). I think they should have pillage bonus (like Vikings in MTW:VI). They will get double income from pillage of province and sell buildings for full price. Is it possible?

Eastside Character

06-29-2004, 15:05

Quote[/b] (Dead Moroz @ June 29 2004,08:05)]I have idea about Crimean Tatars (sorry if it was mentioned before). I think they should have pillage bonus (like Vikings in MTW:VI). They will get double income from pillage of province and sell buildings for full price. Is it possible?
It is possible, only that we'd have to make this mod an expansion game and use Viking faction slot for the Tatars, and probably aslo we'd have assign them barbarian rider behavior model.

Regards,
EC

TheSilverKnight

06-29-2004, 15:24

I have a good thing that would be of use for you guys. For the French flag of the period, you can use the one they already have in MTW (the three fleur-di-lys) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif , or you can use the white state flag of the Bourbons on this page (scroll down a bit) http://flagspot.net/flags/fr_mon.html
I'm glad if I could be of any help

Earl of Sandwich

06-29-2004, 17:13

I think we ought to stay away from anything involving chubby naked angels, because I find them quite disturbing, to tell the truth.

AlexPeters

06-29-2004, 18:42

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif no amors, i like those fat little pigs...

Btw, i made some portraits (no chubby naked angels):
Portraits (http://people.freenet.de/totalwar/renaissance/portrait.html)
Should i mail them (as tgas)?

Alex

Eastside Character

06-29-2004, 18:46

I think the French don't need a new flag, the old one is good enough IMHO.

Regards,
EC

Eastside Character

06-29-2004, 18:49

Quote[/b] (AlexPeters @ June 29 2004,12:42)]http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif no amors, i like those fat little pigs...

Btw, i made some portraits (no chubby naked angels):
> Portraits (http://ajpeters.europe.webmatrixhosting.net/TW/renaissance/portrait.html)
Should i mail them (as tgas)?

Alex
Good job on those portraits Alex, keep it up. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Regards,
EC

Earl of Sandwich

06-29-2004, 23:10

I'm beginning to notice that people sure looked a whole lot uglier back then. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif And these people were ROYALTY for Christ's sake. I'd hate to see what the commoners would look like http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif

TheSilverKnight

06-29-2004, 23:36

Quote[/b] (Eastside Character @ June 29 2004,12:46)]I think the French don't need a new flag, the old one is good enough IMHO.

Regards,
EC
The white one was just a backup-flag in case the other didn't work.

azid

06-30-2004, 16:09

Quote[/b] (AlexPeters @ June 28 2004,03:44)]Another interesting website:
uniforms, flags and names of units (including leader names) of the nordic countries (http://www.megalink.net/~dschorr/)
Covers the swedish, danish, polish and cossak armies. Focus on the early wars of Gustav Adolf.
The description of the battles show the names of all contending regiments.

Alex
Excellent link good pictures of uniforms and colours http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

AlexPeters

06-30-2004, 18:40

Another idea for an unit:
It's called > Haembacherin (http://www.landsknechte-bretten.de/images/assorted/Haembacherin.jpg), an oversized harquebusque (sp?, crew of two men).
Perhaps useful as a siege weapon, i don't know whether there are enough planned yet.

Alex

Hetman

07-01-2004, 09:05

I added the following units to the roster -

Demi-lancers - for England ( early, high);

Free Lancers - buildable mercenaries in Germany - honestly I'm not sure about the unit. They should be different from ordinary heavily armoured
lancers from early XVIth and late XVth century.

Border Reivers - regional unit in Nothumbria;

Doppelsoldner - buildable mercenaries in Germany;

Hartschiere - bodyguards for Hapsburgs and Bavaria ( all periods ?);

Albanian Stradiots - builable mercenaries in Italy and France;

Bavarian Black Cuirassiers - for now available to the Hapsburgs in Bavaria only, but after Bavaria is added only the Bavarian faction will get this unit.

Eastern Lancers - Lancer units in Hungary and Poland ( but for everybody - buildable mercenaries). The were faster and less armoured than the ones in the west.

+ new 'generic' unit - Urban Militia armed with halberds for Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox factions in all provinces from Livonia to Portugal in all periods.

+ Tatars with arkans, but certainly better name is required

About the black band - we will not need them. Since the unit was very similar to the ordinary Lancknechte and they would use valuable unit slots the Black Band won't be used.
The lancknecht units will be available to France as well as to the Empire, the Netherlands and so on ( buildable mercenaries) so they will appear in the mod nonetheless.

As more units representing rebels are necessary here they are -

Peasant rebels - similar to presently used Peasants, but bigger unit size (200 ?), bonus defending against cavalry ( +1), beter morale (1 ) - only in rebellions and historical battles.

Peasant guerillas - big units ( 120 ?), a little better stats than the unit above and in addition MAY HIDE IN THE OPEN.
Only in rebellions and hist. battles.

Rebel marksmen - small units ( 30-40 men ?) of musket armed hunters.
May hide in the open + quite good stats ( morale especially).
Only rebellions and battles.

Religious Fanatics - very good morale, big numbers ( 120), a litle better stats than peasants.
- for Protestant, Heretic and Catholic zealots - only in rebellions and historical battles.

SECOND - Cherkesses are removed - I think they are rather useless.

At this moment we have more than 180 units ( including the ones above).
We'll need about 23-25 slots for agents and ships and about 10 for cannons and at least 10 for Turkish units ( Cebei will post his ideas soon).

So we still can use about 30 slots ( about 5 could be used for highly advanced infantry with flintlock muskets).

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Hetman

07-01-2004, 09:06

Second thing - changes to the map.

It is possible to add 8 provinces + more if we remove one,two or several existing provinces.

The new map isn't easy to prepare and at this moment it's better to post more info about existing provinces, especially about trade goods and resources which should be added.

But let's discuss it anyway.

My proposals
- Estonia from northern Livonia and a part of Novgorod (no access to the sea for Novgorod - historically there wasn't any port untill the early XVIIIth );
- Royal Prussia - from parts of Prussia, Pomerania and Poland;
- Royal Hungary - the part of Hungary which was in Hapsburgs empire after the Turkish invasion;
- Scania - southern Sweden;
- Portugal divided into two provinces ( Oporto ?);
- another Dutch province ( Zeeland ?);
- Saxony made from Franconia, Silesia and Bohemia;
- 'Wild Fields' from southern Khazar;

+ Ragusa or Dalmatia for Venetia ( cutting Croatia and Serbia from the sea);
+ Ruthenia - southern Poland;
+ 2 provinces in Germany - any proposals ?
+ Calais - to provoke English -French war;

- to be removed -

- Africa ( Sahara) - useless for this mod;
- Sinai - currently protects Egipt from invasion, but not in this mod;
- Antioch - rather poor and unimportant at that time ( added to Tripoli);
- Edessa - crusades are over and so is this;
- Arabia - added to Palestine;

In addition - Crimea should be extended to Moldavia cutting Kiev from the sea, Volhynia moved to the south, landbridges should be removed
( maybe except Sweden - Danemark) and one should be added ( Sweden - Finland).

What do You think about these ?

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

AlexPeters

07-01-2004, 10:43

Zitat[/b] (Hetman @ Juli 01 2004,03:05)]./.
Free Lancers - buildable mercenaries in Germany - honestly I'm not sure about the unit. They should be different from ordinary heavily armoured
lancers from early XVIth and late XVth century.
./.
Hartschiere - bodyguards for Hapsburgs and Bavaria ( all periods ?);
./.
I think the Free Lancers are mounted unarmored Landsknechts only, the cover of Osprey's book about the > Armies of the German Peasants' War 1524-26 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1841765074/ref=pd_sim_books_1/102-3278939-4150503?v=glance&s=books) shows such a rider.
They could be buildable mercenaries (the doppelsoldner too), because german mercenary bands consists of a variaty of troops.

Forget those Hartschiere, i couldn't find a better picture, the one you've seen is dated ~1850. We can use the > Rondartschiere (http://ajpeters.europe.webmatrixhosting.net/tw/renaissance/infopics.html) instead (another unit without a pike or lance). The royal units of the empire and it's allies should be cuirassiers, i think.

What about making the western provinces of the ottoman empire corsair/pirate factions (Tunis, Algier) ? Ships from the beginning (Xebecs), barbarian raider behaviour, and maybe a special corsair unit ? They would be useful (as enemies) for Malta and the spanish domination of the mediterranean.
And historically the were imho nearly independent of the sultan.

Alex

The Blind King of Bohemia

07-01-2004, 12:08

The calais idea is good. The free lancer should not be very well armoured. Also england were experimenting with a new weapon called a sprinckle. It was a mace but with a spiked ball on top, and small contigents of these were in henry VIII's army in his first invasion of France

ThijsP

07-01-2004, 17:22

Citaat[/b] (Hetman @ Juli 01 2004,03:06)]- another Dutch province ( Zeeland ?);
The Dutch need at least one more province. Holland and Zeeland should be cut of Flanders. Further you could ad Gelre as an extra province.

But anyways I have one other question: will it be possible to play as the Dutch in the mod with the normal map?? Since they have only one province and with a strong opponent to the south. And will the Dutch be as rich as they were in that period. If that only province has too much income it will become unfair if a other faction takes it over. Maybe a special Dutch building wich generates lots of florins.

Eastside Character

07-01-2004, 19:17

Quote[/b] (ThijsP @ July 01 2004,11:22)]But anyways I have one other question: will it be possible to play as the Dutch in the mod with the normal map?? Since they have only one province and with a strong opponent to the south. And will the Dutch be as rich as they were in that period. If that only province has too much income it will become unfair if a other faction takes it over. Maybe a special Dutch building wich generates lots of florins.
I believe the Dutch should get Friesland as their starting province (on the current map we now have). I think it should generate a considerable amount of cash and yes we can give the Dutch some money generating building. The question is on which do we want to base income of that structure, as it will influence the whole game. If we want to use a resource for that, we can change his name to Dutch Merchants or whatever and make a Dutch Merchant (or whatever other name should be more appropriate) building requiring that resource. We can't make specific buildings region specific, so we have to find a way around this. But we may do it in different way. We can make a special find of farms called let's say Depressions (dont rememeber what they call that land they got from sea) and give it some 2 upgrades, set their income on what we want, and thats it. However there is a drawback of such idea - the building is not region specific. We may however in a way influence where can it be built. We may make port (and maybe some more advanced buildings connected with the sea) a requirement for such a building (that depression thing) and then they (the Dutch) can build such structures only in coastal regions, which I think is a cool idea. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif They really knew how to take the land from the sea, so why couldnt they be actually able to do the same to the land of provinces they conquered? I think it they only wanted they could have been doing it (maybe they have?). So these are my ideas of how to make such a building.

Wanted to write about what I'm now working on and how I'm progressing with things, but I'm just now too tired of writing so much and will do that later.

Regards,
EC

ThijsP

07-01-2004, 19:55

A special building for the Dutch is good, but I think the problem is that an other faction takes Friesland over and it gets the special Dutch bonus it would generate so much moiney that it isnt fair anymore.(Maybe the building will always be raged.

I really like that idea about reclaiming lands (it's called polders.

Ithought you were also talking about a colonist recource for special buildings. That will has to be in Friesland too.

The same problem is with Portugal. Also a very rich country then, with only one province. Maybe Portugal is even more difficult as they only border with one huge faction Spain.

I don't worry soo much about difficulties if you're playing the Dutch self. Allot of rebel german provinces, and one lonely Spanins province would'nt make the start very difficult. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

By the way EC is it nearing comletion http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Eastside Character

07-01-2004, 20:06

Quote[/b] (ThijsP @ July 01 2004,13:55)]A special building for the Dutch is good, but I think the problem is that an other faction takes Friesland over and it gets the special Dutch bonus it would generate so much moiney that it isnt fair anymore.(Maybe the building will always be raged.
There should be no such problem. We can make any building faction specific, so in this case only the Dutch would be able to build it. Yes Polders.

Regards,
EC

AlexPeters

07-01-2004, 23:42

We didn't talk about the > Huguenots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huguenot) yet. Should they become a faction (did they have any special unit ?) in late or just a rebel province in france ?

Alex

Hetman

07-02-2004, 09:24

I counted units, agents and ships we have at this moment and it is 201 of these.

I remind You that the limit is 256 units and we still don't have anything for the Ottomans ( I made quick research and we'll need at least 25 slots for them).
In addition I didn't add any cannons.
So please use only the ideas You think are really important.

It is especially important to think of dismounted cavalry - we'll need
small number of infantry made of dismounted cavalry only. Most of them would dismount into already implemented infantry i.e. arquebusiers or musketeers.

Here is the list of agents

Emissary - 2 years time production time;

Venetian Envoy - venetian emissary - simplier to build ( lower requirements and 1 year prod. time);

Spy - more expensive than today, but should be more useful;

Assassin - as above;

Catholic Bishop - small converting ability;

Orthodox Priest - medium conv. ability, affects zeal;

Protestant Preacher - high converting power, affects zeal;

Jesuit - from 'high', high conv. ability, affects zeal;

Inquisitor - only for some countries;

Papal Legate - for Pope only, replaces Cardinal;

Mullah/Ulama/Mufti/Whatever named - medium conv. ability, affecting zeal as well;

SHIPS - generally 2 years construction time, not available everywhere, some kind of homelands for the ships, some of the ships unavailable to some factions e.g. Ottomans shouldn't use anything apart from galleys.

Caravel - faction adventage to Portugal, to high;

Carrack - to high only, cheaper for Portugal;

Italian Merchant Ship - high defence, weak attack, for Venetia ( and Genoa when added) only, 1 year build. time, early only;

Galeon - cheaper for Spain, high+, powerful but slow;

Frigate - faction adventage to the Netherlands, fast and good;

Galley - cheaper to the Ottomans;

'Big Galey' - cheaper for the Knights of St. John;

Corsair Ship - cheaper for England, simple to build ( port + merchant)

Ship of the Line - from late;

Cossack 'Chajka' ( coudn't find suitable translation), fast and with strong attack ( weak defence), regional ship type in Kiev, Moldavia and Khazar;

CANNONS - less time to build.

Serpentine,

Demi-Culvenir,

Culvenir,

Organ gun,

Mortar - bigger range, more powerful shot;

Siege Cannon - from present Cannon, but more powerful shot - from 'high';

Regimental Cannon - movable, from 'high', cheaper for Sweden;

GENERALLY

Dead Moroz

I've read Your unit roster for Russia. Very good ideas, but unfortunatelly we are not able to use them all, especially it is impossible to create differently armed units for various time periods due to lack of spare slots.

I think it is possible to add - 'Streletskiye Kopeyshchiki' - as russian pikemen for 'high';

dismounted Ryndas and 'Tatarskaya Konnitsa'.

About the rest I think that we not neccessary need them - especially
the 'chosen' Streltsy.
Some of the cavalry units could use small number of arrows ( 10 or even less), this way it would be possible to recreate their tactics - shoot next charge.
Moreover not every single missile armed unit should be able to shoot - some of them were using their pistols in combat rather shoting from afar.

Next thing - sorry for reminding, but we'll use Homelands concept. For Russia this could be - Lithuania, Kiev, Novgorod and anything to the east, I believe.

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Lord Zimoa of Flanders

07-02-2004, 09:27

This mod is looking so promising really guys i think you are doing greatGood historical research,fine artists,would love to see it soon...

CZoF http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

BTW:because of you have several topics going on at the same time,maybe considering a sub-forum is a option.
Moderators?

uksiu

07-02-2004, 12:39

Hetman,

I Like your propositions for new map. Especially with Novgorod, Prussia, Saxony, Dalmatia and Calais. Of course landbridge from Sweden and Finland is important too.

Sahara could be usefull to give some power for rebels (cut out this province and give it to them with nice profits...). But it's not so necessary.
I think east-southern corner need to be rebuilt. I'll check it.

---

I think there is a problem with some countries, like Portugal, Sweden and the Netherlands. I think they should have 2 provinces (or more) at the beginning. One province is one unit for one year (or 1/2 ship). It's small - one unsuccesfull attack or defence on the field and they're lost.

Other think to consider: wealth. Portugal, the Netherlands, Spain, France and England had colonies (and profits from them). How to implement it in the mod?
1. Give them huge amount from some infrastructure. But everyone could take it...
2. Give them full of money at the beginning.
Nice idea, but they could spend it buying armies of neighbours... Could it be realistic?
And what will happen when the money will be out?
3. Give them lower supply costs for army and units.
But if somebody buy theirs army, got speciall advantage.
And f.ex. dutch mercenary will be to cheap (if regular dutch units will be also mercenary).
4. Give them large fleet and nice goods to trade.
But war could cut them out from the money and conqueror of their provinces will be reach...

Hmmm... I'm thinking... is it possible to give a negative supply cost? If the answer is YES, special unit could be a gold producer (bank directors? minister of treasure?). It could be a nice solution for money problem in small wealthy countries... Of cours it should be hard to build them - 10 years, unique buildings or even impossibility...

SwordsMaster

07-02-2004, 13:21

Wow a lot of stuff in the last few days
Some ideas: I like the map ideas, here are my 2 cents:
landbridges: there should be a land bridge in the Gibraltar straits.And definitely Finland Sweden as they are connected by land...
I suggest splitting Cordoba in at least 2: Cordoba (Access to the atlantic) and Castilla la Nueva (Easternmost with access to the Mediterranean).

I think we shouldnt group indiscriminately those middle east provs. mainly because the ottomans would end up with only 6-7 enormous provs, which is not what we want.

About units:

I dont like the idea of 200 peasants hiding in open with pikes. Maybe make them faster instead, as thir lack of armor adds to their speed.

About the income from colonies, I think we should use the method implemented in NTW and add a Indies company building at the end of the trade center chain.

The ship roster looks very good.

Also, what I thought, that maybe the factions shouold only reappear in their homelands instead of any provinvce they controlled, that would make it more realistic IMHO.

I think thats all for now.

Regards.

uksiu

07-03-2004, 13:18

This mod will be divided into 3 periods.
Should be just one map for all of them? From 1492 to 1700 some region losed their importance, other became centers of interests...

BTW: I cannot find whole list of fractions. Is it complete?

I think it is impossible to avoid 1-province countries...
Saxony, Switzerland, Saxony, Brandenburg, Palatinate, Bavaria and Meklemburg, Western and Eastern Pomerania (or one Pomerania), Brunswick, Munster, Wurzburg, Wurtemberg, Lorraine - 14 provinces, I know, but I think Europe need small and rich countries...

Austria should control at the beginning: Austria, Tirol and Kraina? Croatia?

The Netherlands could be divided into 2 provinces: The Nederlands and Spanish Netherlands (Western Netherlands?).
I'm not so sure Holland and Frisia is a good idea.

Need we Framche Comte? What about Silesia - it's usefull province (nice field of battles).

I think Malta and Rhodes isn't so important (remember the limit of province number).

Siedmiogrod (don't know english name) is a must. Bosnia is important.
Morea should be excluded from Greece - Venice need it :)
Moldavia and Wallachia shouldn't have ports - maybe new province (Dobrudja? Budjak? Jedisan?) is needed. Other ottoman lands: Serbia, Bulgaria, Rumelia (with Stambul), Anatolia (rich, huge land).
Other province in range of Turks: Syria, Palestine, Egypt, Tripolitania, Tunisia, Algeria, Marocco. Maybe put there Tanger?

French lands: Breton, Normandie, Ile de France, Champagne, Poitou, Guyenne, Languedoc, Provance, Burgundy, Overne (10 I suppose it's to much...).

Irland should by part of England ;-) Other english provinces: Wales, Norhtumberland, Wessex, York and Essex???

What with Denmark and Norway? They had union - but how call that: Denmark, Norway, Denmark-Norway Union?

It's just my ideas and thinking...

Eastside Character

07-03-2004, 14:16

I don't think we should be discussing any changes to a campmap now. The first release will most probably use the old MTW map, so talking about adding any new provinces now will most probably not influence the fact the first release will use an old map. A map research thread for MedMod v4 proved that such discussion takes time and needs many compromises. However, I dont' think it should be discussed in this thread, as it's not a campmap development thread, but a general one. There are loads of other things the mod needs before the first beta can be released, a new campmap is I think the last thing we should worry about now.

There now seems to be a problem with the number of units we now have. If there's a danger we may have more units than we can, I advise to revise the unit rosters and reconsider some of the already accepted choices. My example of how can we have more units is: several factions have Pikemen in their unit rosters, every factions (or many of them) has it's own kind of Pikemen. The thing is, most of these units are the same, even their names are the same (only that translated into national languages of respective factions). I don't speak here of Tercio Pikemen or any other unique kind of pike unit, but of plain Pike units which in my understanding use too many slots. There could be just one Pikemen unit for the appropriate factions IMHO. There are also I believe other units the mod doesn't need that much. Russian, Polish, Zaporozhian Cossacks, Crimean Tatars (and Turks) can for example train very similar Cossack units. How about giving these factions some generic cossack unit, and maybe some of them could also get some extras, but not all. Also I was thinking of the Spanish unit roster, they have too many units I think (about 33), while for example France has 8, England 8 as well, Hungary only 2 and so on. There are still many factions which have no units yet (Denmark, Portugal, Turkey, Venetia and more). How can we discuss any map changes now as we don't yet have a decent unit rosters for all the factions? Consider this.

We also lack information about the provinces (and I mean the provinces we have now, not those which should be added) in the provincial research thread.

I'm now reworking the infopics, as I decided they cannot be the way they were (it's all about that bottom line shade). I remaked some few of them now, and they look much better, when I remake enough (at least 10 out of some 40 old ones I have now) - I'll show you.

To progress more smoothly I think we simply need to make some arrangements. Who can do what, and so on. But first I think, we may want to establish a team, so that we all know who's with us and who's only a lurker who posted once or twice with no intent to develop the mod further. This is up to Hetman, tho I think it'd benefit the mod, and it seems we have to become more organized (or at least that could help us).

Regards,
EC

uksiu

07-04-2004, 16:31

Quote[/b] ]I don't think we should be discussing any changes to a campmap now. The first release will most probably use the old MTW map, so talking about adding any new provinces now will most probably not influence the fact the first release will use an old map. OK. I will not waste your time and place in this thread writing about new map. But if it's possible, I could send to creators my idea of map - not perfect but maybe inspiring in some cases. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

Hetman

07-05-2004, 08:26

AlexPeters

Forget those Hartschiere

Done...what Hartschiere ?

We can use the > Rondartschiere

They are on the list, actually.

What about making the western provinces of the ottoman empire corsair/pirate factions (Tunis, Algier) ? Ships from the beginning (Xebecs), barbarian raider behaviour...

About barbarian rider behaviour - it is linked with faction's religion,
namely pagan in this case. So this can't be done.

The Blind King of Bohemia

Also england were experimenting with a new weapon called a sprinckle. It was a mace but with a spiked ball on top, and small contigents of these were in henry VIII's army in his first invasion of France

Interesting... Any pictures of this unit ?

GENERALLY

1.I activated the unused resource - FOREST - and renamed this to COLONISTS ( and changed the icon for this)- this way it will be easier to recreate colonies in the game ( before I used SALT as main requirement and 'COLONISTS' trade good for information purpose only).
I believe we can use COPPER ( renamed of course) if we need to restrict
availability of any buildings to certain provinces.

2.Provinces with 'colonists' trade good

Portugal ( obvious choice) - Portugal should start with Colonial House
( income 540 florines),

Mercia, Wessex - for England,

Volga-Bulgaria - for Russia recreating coloniation of Syberia,

Freisland, Flandres - for the Netherlands and Spain mostly,

Normandy - for France,

Cordoba, Leon, Castile, Grenada - for Spain,

It is possible to make more than one building requiring the Colonists.

3. Factions and their behaviour and religion.

Poland - Behaviour (B) - Catholic Expansionist, Religion ® - Catholic

Hungary - B - Orthodox Expansionist, R - Protestant ( renamed orthodox)

Spain - B - Catholic Exp, R - Catholic;

France - B - Catholic Exp, R - Catholic;

England - B - Orthodox Exp, R - Protestant;

Danemark - B - Orthodox Exp, R - Protestant;

Russia - B - Barbarian Raider, R - Orthodox ( renamed pagan);

Ukraine - Barbarian Raider, Orthodox;

Ottomans - Muslim Expansionist, Muslim;

Crimean Khanate - Muslim Expansionist, Muslim;

Hapsburgs HRE - Catholic Expansionist, Catholic;

Sweden - Orthodox Expansionist, Protestant;

Portugal - Catholic Naval Expansionist ( or Catholic Trader we'll see)

Venetia - as above;

Egypt - Muslim Expansionist;

Dutch - Orthodox Expansionist, Protestant;

The Knights - Catholic Naval Expansionist, catholic;

Swiss - Orthodox Expansionist, Protestant;

Pope - Pope;

Georgia - Barbarian Raider, Orthodox;

Not available yet ----->

Saxony - Orthodox Expansionist, Protestant;

Scotland - Orthodox Expansionist, Protestant;

Brandenburg - Orthodox Expansionist, Protestant;

Bavaria - Catholic Expansionist, Catholic;

Navarre - Orthodox Expansionist, Protestant;

Genoa - Catholic Naval Expansionist, Catholic;

Florence - Catholic Expansionist, Catholic;

4 more factions can be added ( Hougenots, English Catholics and more
these could use units and buildings of their 'mirror' factions i.e. France and England and so on).

I think we'll not need Persia ( we really need more provinces in the present map and should not extend it to the east, unfortunatelly).
And we don't need Burgundy either.

Why so many factions are expansionists ?
This way the game will be more interesting, because most of the factions will be highly aggressive. Welcome to total war

It seems that this behaviour is the most useful for game purposes.

Since protestant religion is in fact renamed orthodox and orthodox is renamed pagan ( quite complicated...), it is possible to choose other behaviours for protestant factions and for this reason Georgia is barbarian raider ( sorry Datka).
Anyway it doesn't matter if human player controlls any of those factions.

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Eastside Character

07-05-2004, 10:53

Quote[/b] (Hetman @ July 05 2004,02:26)]About barbarian rider behaviour - it is linked with faction's religion,
namely pagan in this case. So this can't be done.
Have you tested it? I have, and on the basis of the tests I've done, I can say that what you're saying is not true. You can give any behavior model to any faction regardless of its religion. A faction can use Islamic or Catholic religion and still can be a barbarian raider. Moreover, not even religion of a faction and its culture have to match. So you can have eg. a faction use catholic culture, islamic religion and barbarian raider behavior model all at the same time. There are plenty of possibilities out there. They just have to be tested. But it's a long way now before some first real playtesting can be done, so about all those factions being catholic expansionists or whatever, I'd say we'll see after some playtesting how it all works in practice.

Regards,
EC

Hetman

07-05-2004, 12:21

Swordmaster

I dont like the idea of 200 peasants hiding in open with pikes. Maybe make them faster instead, as thir lack of armor adds to their speed.

Only Peasant Guerillas will be able to hide everywhere - they are not armed with anything scary really. Actually their only advantage is this ability.
And it makes peasant revolts more dangerous.

uksiu

I think Malta and Rhodes isn't so important (remember the limit of province number).

It is - the Knights were quite important in stopping the Ottoman fleet.
Actually ONLY at that time the islands were really important.

But anyway let's leave this discussion for later.

GENERALLY

Colonial goods, colonization and so on.

The idea of the certain structure ( Colonial House) generating certain amount of cash is much better solution than another merchant.
As it is impossible to add America we really have to do something like this, otherwise,again, tradelinks will matter too much. It is really important to allow Portugal, Spain or the Netherlands earning money even when cut off from most of Europe.
If we used another type of merchant we would make italian states more important than the new world, because America, China and so on are OUTSIDE the map and tradelinks can be created only between provinces
which ARE ON the map.

Small factions

One way to make small factions more powerful is to give them really useful units for bodyguads. More powerful factions should use small units like General ( 12 men only, I believe) in the roster.

EC

I agree we need to eliminate some of existing units, but quite many of them will be available to several factions ( I'll update unit list in 'the results' thread in this week) and some of the factions should use mercenaries only - that's why they are available in whole Italy and Germany. Of course we'll need some more - especially some kind of Condotierii and units for Hungary and Turkey ( Cebei answered he will post something soon).
We could eliminate the units which consisted of mercenaries only (especially German and Italian mercenaries).

About the team - I can take the unit implementing and balancing, faction balancing, startpos and coordinating all of our work ( but I'm able to check the forum only twice a week...)
EC you could take names ( or I could do that - I mean implementing this not researching for more) and graphics ( which is the biggest part of our work at this moment).
Everyone else could add required info related to 'research' thread i.e. names, titles, trade goods in provinces.
We all could post descriptions for our units - I will correct them when
necessary.

WHAT WE NEED TO DO BEFORE ANY RELEASE

First - trade goods in provinces - start with those You know the best.
Second - more pictures for units and buildings - full list in 'results' thread.
Third - icons for the units (and maybe for armies and fleets) - we could use existing ones, but not always.
Fourth - descriptions for the units - I would like to see Present Tenses in use if possible.
Fifth - historical introductions for factions - the way it was done in the MTW.
Sixth - more portraits, and some additional banners. We could ask BKB for permission to use some of his prebat_shields, I believe ( Georgia, the Knights etc.)
Seventh - probably some battlemaps for the mod - using map editor.

This doesn't include any new campaign map, additional factions, historical battles nor campaigns and so on.

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Hetman

07-05-2004, 12:25

Quote[/b] (Eastside Character @ July 05 2004,04:53)]
Quote[/b] (Hetman @ July 05 2004,02:26)]About barbarian rider behaviour - it is linked with faction's religion,
namely pagan in this case. So this can't be done.
Have you tested it? I have, and on the basis of the tests I've done, I can say that what you're saying is not true.
No I didn't, I've read some guides, though.

But if You are right it is really good news.

Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Eastside Character

07-05-2004, 12:54

Quote[/b] (Hetman @ July 05 2004,06:21)]EC you could take names ( or I could do that - I mean implementing this not researching for more) and graphics ( which is the biggest part of our work at this moment).
Yeah I can do that. Implementing names into appropriate txt files is not a problem for me. About the graphics, you know I'm working on them.

Regards,
EC

AlexPeters

07-05-2004, 13:25

Zitat[/b] (Hetman @ Juli 05 2004,13:21)]./. (1) It is really important to allow Portugal, Spain or the Netherlands earning money even when cut off from most of Europe ./.
(2) Of course we'll need some more - especially some kind of Condotierii ./. (3) Sixth - more portraits, and some additional banners ./.
@ Hetman
1) It's impossible for the naval orientated factions to cut the income of the colonial powers by blocking the routes (no treasure fleet) then. I think a (or more) valuable trade good (gold, silver, sugar) reflects history better. If the value is high enough even small trading creates a large income (more trade reflects more colonies then).
2) We've got german, scottish (and other ?) mercenaries, they could be available in most european (also poland and russia) countries. Condottieri is just the italian word for an independent mercenary leader.
3) I can offer some portraits. I've got enough pictures (raw material only yet) to create ~200 additional portraits (we need, in any case, some more real pictures of leaders and heroes). I can't offer pictures of islamic generals, no sources.
Tell me which flags you need and i think i could find some pics.

Regards Alex

Eastside Character

07-05-2004, 17:45

Well, I was trying to send you a PM Alex, but it seems junior patrons can't receive them. In such case, I'll copy what I wrote to you in that PM here:

Quote[/b] (EC to Alex @ July 05 2004)]Hello Alex,

I'm responsible for most of the graphic work connected with the mod (XVI-XVII mod that is), so if you can, send the portraits you've made at eastsidecharacter@hotmail.com . I also made some portraits (some 200), but will make more. I saw those info pics you've made, they look nice. Are you going to make more of them? Soon I'll send you a link to a page with reworked info pics that I made (you might have seen their old versions at the site a link to is in my sig). Now they look a bit different, the soldiers are smaller and presented in a way the whole person (or if mounted then with a mount) is shown. If you have any raw graphic files you can't/don't have time to work on, you can send them to me as well. I was hoping for some help in graphics, I'm glad you've joined us.
Oh, and one more word about the flags; I've made only the flags you can see here (http://www.geocities.com/eastsideofwar/xviflagsxvii.html), if you have any good flags (images I mean, well or if you've made some yourself its even better) of other factions that will appear in the mod, again send them to me.

Regards,
EC

AlexPeters

07-05-2004, 19:26

@ EC:
I can make more of those info pics, as bifs or offer raw material, just tell me which units. We should organise it a little bit only to avoid wasted efforts.
Btw, what do you think about changing the appearance of the portraits a little ? I liked the oval frame the russian modders made and thought about using something comparable for our portraits (perhaps another ornament for the info pics also ?), style of a miniature painting or whatever.

Never made flags before, but i could send the raw material (for all needed countries, i think).

Regards Alex http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Eastside Character

07-05-2004, 20:02

Quote[/b] (AlexPeters @ July 05 2004,13:26)]@ EC:
I can make more of those info pics, as bifs or offer raw material, just tell me which units.
Very good.

Quote[/b] (AlexPeters @ July 05 2004,13:26)]We should organise it a little bit only to avoid wasted efforts.
I agree.

Quote[/b] (AlexPeters @ July 05 2004,13:26)]Btw, what do you think about changing the appearance of the portraits a little ? I liked the oval frame the russian modders made and thought about using something comparable for our portraits (perhaps another ornament for the info pics also ?), style of a miniature painting or whatever.
Well, personally I don't like that oval-shaped portraits too much. About the ornaments and other details, I think it'd better if you sent me an e-mail. It'd be more convenient to discuss details via e-mail rather than here IMHO. Then, when we'd come up to some effects/results of our efforts/ideas we could post it here.

Regards,
EC

ThijsP

07-05-2004, 21:56

Unit descriptions

'ghemeijn ruyteren'

Curasiers are splitted in to groups in the Netherlands. The Ghemeijn Ruyteren are the more lightly armoured. They are only armed with one pistol and a sword.

The curasiers in the Netherlands were founded by Count of Nieuwenaar and Meurs on 22 Juli 1585.

'gheappoicteerde curassiers'

Curasiers are divided in two groups in the Netherlands. Gheappoicteerde curassiers are very heavy armoured. THe breastplate and backplate are strong enough to withstand the shot of a small pistol. To spare the horse for the actual fighting gheappoicteerde curassiers have an extra horse in peacetime. The servants used that horse to get supplies. They are armed woth three guns wich give them an advantage over the enemy Curasiers who mostly had only two pistols. In a fight a pistol only shoots once so this gives them a big advantage. They also had a sword for hand-to-hand combat.

The curasiers in the Netherlands were founded by Count of Nieuwenaar and Meurs on 22 Juli 1585.

'Bereden Harquebusiers'

Harquebusiers are lightly armoured , so not really strong in hand-to-hand combat. They are mainly used for reconaissence. During a battle the shoot one salvo into the enemy to disrupt them. Then they run away from the enemy to reloud their carabin.

Harquebusiers are not used for attacking the rear of the enemy. This is so because in the rear the money and women are. So it is possible the Harquebusiers would go looting instead of fighting

'Piekeniers'

Prince Maurits promoted the use of schields with pikeman. He came to this after studys of the ancient greeks. The bodygeards are equiped with round shields('rondas') Dutch pikeman are divided in smaller units then most other Euopean nations. This gives them higher mobility and makes them fight more effecienly.

'Musketiers'

Dutch armys contain higher numbers of Musketiers then other nations. The stadthouders of the Northern Netherlands recognise the importance of firearms. Dutch Musketiers are organised in smaller regiments to give them higher mobility and give them more room to schoot.

Hetman

07-06-2004, 09:13

I updated unit roster in 'results' thread.

I added German pikemen and musketeers useful for every existing or future german factions and removed Egyptian Cavalry which was completely useless.
In addition You can now all see which unit is for which faction.

Swordmaster

Please provide spanish names for spanish units ( and only for those completely spanish).

I believe we could remove some of the cavalry units available to this faction. Please propose which ones.

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Count, tHe dEmEnToR

07-06-2004, 22:38

Hey there gentlemen, I'm new in this community, but i've been reading many threads in the last few days.

I tought that this would be a good way to introduce myself to the community, by giving a small contribution.

Obviously i haven't read all of posts in this thread, but i've read most of them, and there seems to be a problem with the Portuguese specific units (if i am mistaken i'm really sorry).

I've have a considerable knowledge of the Portuguese history and so i think i'm in a position to give you some information.

------------------

First of all, Portugal in this period had lost it's full independence due to a royal heritage problem. The King D. Sebastião, in 1578 (motivated by the Epic Poetry of Camões), decided to retake the plaza of Ceuta, in north Africa.
His army with 16 700 men (most of them barely trained Peasants, but there were also some elite soldiers from across the country, and it had also received soldiers from Spain, Italy, Germany, Dutch-land and Tanger) landed on North Africa at the 29th of July.
The battle took place in the 3rd of August (if i'm not mistaken) and the Portuguese King was killed. He was only 14 years old :p and so he left no heirs.
The spanish eventually killed the only few possible portuguese man that could claim the throne, and because of the connection (by marriage) between the Portuguese Royal family and the Spanish, they assumed control of Portugal.

Initially they made a treaty on which they wouldn't dominate Portugal entirely, leaving us with some independence. The first 2 spanish rulers obeyed this treat, but the 3rd one, Filipe III, decided to make Portugal a Spanish province. Obviously, the portuguese we're not satisfied with this union with spain. We had lost half of our colonial posseisons due to wars with spanish enemies (the british and the dutch) and this action made us revolt against spain. And so the war of the Restoration began in 1640, and it would only end after 28 years.

Enough of history. Portugal during this war managed to organize a strong army. But it wasn't very well equipped. The Portuguese Pikeman of this age most of the times didn't use any kind of armor. This would make them faster and lighter troops sacrficating the defence.

The Portuguese Light Pikeman (or Piqueiro Ligeiro) could be a specific Portuguese unit.

good morale
non disciplined
+1 against horses
charge 5
attack 4
defense 1
armour 1
very fast
armed with a pike.

Another specific unit could be the Portuguese Navigator or Portuguese Sailor. Most of the times the Portuguese sea expeditions didn't take any kind of military protection. For that reason they all took a Sword and a Dagger (and some times a pistol) in order to fight against any threat they could find during their mission.

good morale
non disciplined
+1 against pikes
charge 4
attack 5
defense 3
armour 2
fast
armed with a light sword, a dagger and a pistol.

Portugal during this period was also in war with the muslim factions in Asia, because of the trade routes. We fought with the arabs in Goa. Most of the times we didnt use horses because of the climate, our mounted soldiers used dromedaries or camels.

http://www.viriatus.com/figuras/photos/54C003_1.jpg

This unit could be the Goese Camel Arquebusier.

good morale
non disciplined
penalty in lush areas
charge 3
attack 5
defense 3
armour 3
fast
armed with an arquebuz

Most of the units i told u about can be seen at this url: http://www.viriatus.com/catalogo.asp?Escala=54&Per=C# (in Portuguese). In that site there's also information on the Portuguese army during that period. If u need help translating it...

These are just suggestions, i hope that it helps in anyway...

Hetman

07-08-2004, 09:08

Welcome to the ORG Count, tHe dEmEnToR

Very good information, thanks

You certainly can help. How ?
You might provide more information, I mean names, trade goods, office titles, images for portraits and finally descriptions of famous generals/admirals for Portugal - names, year when they appeared, statistics ( command, acumen, piety and so on), vices and virtues - that's really important.
You could post this in 'XVI-XVII research' thread.

Your ideas are good, certainly good enough to use those ideas.
From now on the units are added to the unit roster in 'XVI-XVII results' thread. I like the Goa Camel Arquebusiers the most.

Of course the stats will be different, but that's my job to balance the units in the mod.

One more thing - please add names for the units in Portuguese -> singular and plural forms.

Your post did help a lot m8

NEWS

Wagon infantry

I tried several ideas to recreate wagon infantry in the mod. The best way, I thought, was to use wagon model as another artillery piece, but it wasn't possible - I wasn't skilled enough to implement this idea, unfortunatelly.
In the end I decided to make it from pikemen armed with organ-gun-like weapon.
So finally we have pikemen which are impossible to move untill the model of organ gun is destroyed and the weapon won't be possible to turn either. After the gun is destoyed they will be able to move, but very slowly.
In combat they will have huge adventage vs. cavalry ( at least + 9 to defence vs cavalry) in defence only, but will be vulnerable to enemy infantry, which is realistic as much as it can be.
Their firepower won't cause high casualities ( although short reload time and fairly accurate), but certainly will seriously affect enemy's morale - so the unit is going to be very usefull in defence, although forming a big box formation will be the most useful for this unit.

I added another unit of wagon infantry for 'early' era - for Hungary and Poland - maybe this should be available also to Russia ? I don't know. This unit will have less efficient firepower, though.

SPANISH CAVALRY

Because cavalry was rather unimportant part of Spanish armies at that time I think we don't need so many cavalry units for Spain.
I decided to remove 'The Estradiotes' and 'Archeros de Borgona' from the roster. The two unit slots are going to be more usefull for something else.

MERCENARY ARTILLERY

I added Mercenary Artillery to the unit roster as buildable mercenaries from 'high'.

At this moment we have 215 units in the list.

MORE HEROES

Before first release we will have to prepare list of historical heroes for each faction.

Thanks to Robert from Polish Total War forum and our own knowledge we have plenty of proposals for Poland ( probably more than 25), now we need this kind of lists for other factions.

Please post your proposals in the 'research' thread, admirals will be used as field commanders, so you can expect to see Drake leading an english army on the ground.

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

The Blind King of Bohemia

07-08-2004, 11:12

If you need any english heros i'll post loads later if you like.

Count, tHe dEmEnToR

07-08-2004, 12:37

Hey there Gentlemen...

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif I'm gald i can help.

One thing, the standart you used for Portugal is a much later one. The one you used is from the Napoleonic era. The standart of that age was this 1...

http://www.terravista.pt/guincho/1421/bandeira/pt_1385.gif

The colours should be the red and maybe the white...

I'll provide you with the Portuguese names and the titles soon, i have been thinking about it actually...

Cheers... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

Count, tHe dEmEnToR

07-08-2004, 12:42

Sorry for da double post...

That standart was from the XIV and XV centuries, the standart of the XVI was actually this 1...

http://www.terravista.pt/guincho/1421/bandeira/pt_1495.gif

Cheers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif ...

NormanPain

07-09-2004, 04:49

Why havent I come across this mod before http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif Can't wait for this one guys, is there a beta out? Sounds great, I wish you all luck and sucess. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Count, tHe dEmEnToR

07-09-2004, 12:18

I wasn't supossed to post in the results thread... shit sorry, i confused the thread. Now it's done...

Hetman

07-09-2004, 12:27

Quote[/b] (The Blind King of Bohemia @ July 08 2004,05:12)]If you need any english heros i'll post loads later if you like.
Of course

BTW - could post more info about the unit You've mentioned before and maybe a picture for them.

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

The Blind King of Bohemia

07-09-2004, 16:55

Of course mate http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Trust me you we like the border reivers. Does it matter if its osprey art?

The Blind King of Bohemia

07-09-2004, 18:34

Here goes, pics coming of reivers

http://www.sorbie.net/S_Reivers.jpg

http://www.borderhorse.org/images/reiver.gif

http://www.doyle.com.au/images/galowglass.jpg

This one is border horse in ireland vs kern and gallowglass

NormanPain

07-10-2004, 08:46

ahh yes...the reivers...regarded by many in there time to be the best cavalry men there was to have...they should most definetly be in the game despite the fact they were never in any army in astoundingly huge numbers...the biggest force that fought in an army was what...2000?

Hetman

07-10-2004, 09:05

Quote[/b] (The Blind King of Bohemia @ July 09 2004,12:34)]Here goes, pics coming of reivers

http://www.sorbie.net/S_Reivers.jpg

http://www.borderhorse.org/images/reiver.gif

http://www.doyle.com.au/images/galowglass.jpg

This one is border horse in ireland vs kern and gallowglass
Honestly I was thinking of this

- Also england were experimenting with a new weapon called a sprinckle. It was a mace but with a spiked ball on top, and small contigents of these were in henry VIII's army in his first invasion of France

Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

The Blind King of Bohemia

07-10-2004, 11:56

http://www.mwart.com/xq/ASP.store/cat.29/qx/Maces+%26+Flails.htm

Right imagine the bottom left spiked mace. Then above the spiked ball there is a slight spear point. The shaft of the weapon would be longer as well, say that of a spear. Is that clear enough mate because i can't locate the pic of the weapon at the moment. Sorry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

AlexPeters

07-10-2004, 12:29

Zitat[/b] (The Blind King of Bohemia @ Juli 10 2004,12:56)]./. Right imagine the bottom left spiked mace. Then above the spiked ball there is a slight spear point. ./.
Like this (?):
Armies of the German Peasants' War 1524-26 (big cover pic) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1841765074/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-4082618-8102542#reader-link)

Alex http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

The Blind King of Bohemia

07-10-2004, 13:02

Very similar to that but i think the shaft would have been thinner and spiked ball itself was smaller if you get me.

Hetman

07-12-2004, 10:48

BKB how should I call this unit ?

NEWS

Here are my first historical introductions - these for the polish faction. I know that my english isn't as good as it should be so plese free to correct me - send me PM if You see any mistake.

Here they are.

EARLY

'The Golden Age'

The XVth century was very good time for Poland. After a long struggle the Teutonic Order was finally crushed and the polish part of pomerania
was reclaimed. The trade flows undisturbed once more to the Baltic Sea and beyond, the Jagiellonian university in Krakow is one of the most famous and respected in the whole Europe and slow process of colonization of the future Ukraine has just begun.
Thanks to the union from 1385 the Polish-Lithuanian state became the largest catholic country in the world and still remains to be so, but it shouldn't be forgotten that only smaller part of the population is really polish and the number of the orthodox christians is only a little smaller than of the catholics.
The Polish-Lithuanian state is a multinational country almost as the United States of America will be in the far future. Poles, Lithuanians, Germans, Ruthenians, Belorussians, Ukrainians, Russians, Jews and Tatars, and many more less numerous or less known peoples live in this country. Certainly religious tolerance is required if the state is going to survive. The state will benefit from numerous ideas created
by this diverse society, but Poland isn't obviously the best candidate for future european super-power.
Only thanks to the ruling Jagiellonian dynasty and many mutual interests of catholic and orthodox nobles the union still survived and although one danger was eliminated many more queue up to reveal themselves.
In the east Muscovites are closer and closer to create Russia once more. Certainly after they conquer the decaying remnants of once-great Golden Horde they will try to get as much as they can in the west.
In the north the Kalmar Union is close to be broken and whatever appears to replace it almost certainly Poland is going to be one of its targets.
In the south the Ottoman Empire becomes stronger and stronger, it seems that Hungary will be its next prey, but it's easy to guess who could be the second. Even small states of Germany and the Crimean Khanate can be more than just irritating.
Fortunatelly expansion is still easier than it seems. Livonian state is an obvious choice - rich and relatively weak - also eastern, even russian provinces are rather easier to take than anything to the south or west of Poland. The danger is that the furure war against the Ottomans seems inevitable, so probably preparing strong in the southern border is a matter of close future.

HIGH

'The Great Experiment'

The last century was the golden age for this multinational country. Not many and mostly victorius wars were fought, peace with the Ottoman sultans lasted for almost the whole XVIth century. The trade flows as never before and polish grain feeds many of western countries. Polish nobles are one of the best educated in the whole continent.
The death of Zygmunt August ends the long reign of the Jagiellonian dynasty and although sometimes it seems completely opposite the Polish-Lithuanian union is to last for more than two centuries from this time. The last years certainly were extremly important for the future of this country. The kingdom was reformed, many changes implemented and finally the new political union between the two nations was signed in Lublin in 1569. The monarchy was almost replaced with Rzeczpospolita ( republic), but still many more changes have to be implemented.
Religious tolerance, strong Sejm ( Parliament) and finally the requirement to swear to obey all this to the the nation is irritating to many would-be kings of the Republic, nevertheless the power of the king is still strong enough for any skilled monarch.
The first election is close and much depends on the future ruler's personality.
It is difficult time for Europe.
Western Europe enters one religious war after another, the southern countries fight back ottoman fleets and finally Russia looms as the big, dark cloud in the east. Certainly Ivan the Terrible isn't the best neighbour for Poland.
Fortunatelly it is the time of the best and the most skilled commanders in polish history and the reformed polish army is one of the best in the whole Europe. Any skilled ruler should bear this in mind.
It seems that war against Russia is a matter of days rather than years and a decisive blow is necessary to cut Russia from the Baltic Sea. Expansion in any other direction is more difficult, but it's impossible to avoid ottoman expansion so probably it's better to attack turkish provinces than to be attacked.

LATE

Playing the Polish at this period is harder than in chosen difficulty level.

'Calamitatis Regnum'

Is this tha end of independent Poland ?
After the magnificient king Stephen Bathory something bad had happened. The intolerant 'jesuit king' was elected. Sigismund's reign was disastrous for this country. Unnecessary wars, bad allinces and many political blunders mark the long reign of this king. Despite the fact that polish armies humilated the biggest european powers and most skilled commanders, even captured Kremlin for a year or more, too many opportunities were wasted.
Poland is still the most tolerant country in Europe, but certainly not thanks to Sigismund who seemed to be extremly well skilled in offending everybody, even the best statesmen as the chancellor Zamoyski.
His son Wladislaw was better ruler, but it wasn't very difficult after his father's reign.
Unfortunatelly he wasn't good enough to repair all the damage which was done by his father, especially when it comes to idiotic persecution of orthodox christians.
The next Cossack rebellion has just started and what was started as a local insurrection easily became civil war or even national rising of the whole Ukraine.
Beware, because Russia, Sweden, the Ottomans or even the Crimean Khanate and Branderburgia may join the invasion if they see Poland as an easy prey.
Polish army is still very good and has very good commanders, but it is small and using low quality, but cheap troops as Szlachta seems to be inevitable.
This time it is the battle for survival, rather than conquest.

What do You think about these ?

Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

The Blind King of Bohemia

07-12-2004, 11:30

Call them either Thomas caverden's infantry or Sprinkler men. Sounds weird but thats what they would have been knowed as. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

AlexPeters

07-12-2004, 14:47

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/barrel.gif I've got a pic... puuh http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif
Soldato del contingente Thomas Caverden 1544
http://www.mailmodel.com/foto/AIT-54036.jpg

Alex

The Blind King of Bohemia

07-12-2004, 18:08

Good man They look swell don't they? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Hetman

07-13-2004, 10:25

Yes, they do http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

AlexPeters

07-13-2004, 15:26

I need an image (McBride style preferred, height at least 200px) of an infantryman from the tudor era (those fancy trousers, perhaps a baret (sp?) with a feather). I'll (ctl+c and ctl+v) compose the different info pics for early english troops of it.

Thanks in advance, Alex

P.S. The swell one would be among them, i assume... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
P.P.S. ... by the way, if someone could scan some (McBride style, plain headgear, unarmoured) horses, i've got lot's of cavalrymen (on foot http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-curtain.gif) that desperatly need a horse.

Hetman

07-15-2004, 09:47

NEWS

MOLDAVIA

I did some research and
I believe we can add Moldavia as playable faction for 'early', but certainly not in the first release, anyway here are the units they'll get.

Oastea Mica Boyars - medium/heavy bodyguard cavalry armed with bows and lances,

Oastea Mica Viteji Retainers - light cavalry with compound bows and spears,

Calarisi - elite infantry with bows, will be able to hide everywhere,

presently used Moldavian cavalry and Moldavian skirmishers are replaced with:

Oastea Mare cavalry - rather mounted infantry than cavalry, but cheap and able to dismount every time to -

Razesi - ordinary infantry armed with compound bows and swords,

the two units above will be available as regional units in Moldavia and Carpathia

in addition Wallachian Cavalry will be able to dismount into Calarisi in open battles ( to make it really useful).

Future Moldavia will get access to mercenary units, some units from closer factions ( Cossacks, some Tatar units ...) and even some ottoman units ( from Balkans).

I know that adding Moldavia means more valuable unit slots to use, but I think 3 units isn't high price to pay for additional and rather unique faction for the Balkans.

ENGLAND

Sprinkler men are added in the roster. Available in 'early' for England
in Wessex only (?).

So we have 219 units at this moment.

THE OTTOMAN UNITS

I decided to try to make a list of units for the Ottomans.
I didn't add this to the roster. I wait for Your opinions about them.

Kapikulu Infantries ( Yenicheri)
-Zirhli Nefer armored soldiers,
-Tüfekchi musketeers,
-Okchu archers - only 'early',

Kapikulu Cavalries ( palace cavalry)
-Sipahi Corps Kirmizi Bayrak - majority,
-Silahdar Corps Sari Bayrak-Yellow Banner - bodyguards,
-Garib Corps - guardians of the Prophet's Banner,

'The Core' - provincional cavalry
- Timarli Sipahi heavy cavalries,
- Jebelü light cavalries,

frontier troops
-Akinjis not in 'late',
-Delil,

provincional infantry
-Azebs,
-Sekbans not in 'late' - peasants
-Sarijas from 'high' sharp-shooters,
-Tüfekchi Musketeers - from 'high' or 'late'
-Levends from 'high', bandits

Auxiliaries
-The Algerian Naval soldiers called Ta'ifat Al Ru'sa ( musket armed),
-Balkan ( Serbia, Bulgaria) Voynuks
Most of the voynuks were heavy cavalries,
-Martolos Greek Auxiliaries - muszkiet, bandits,
-Sharp-shooter Panduks - Bosnia,
-musketeer Eflaks - Wallachia and Bosnia, musketeers,
-Ashirs (Syrian local militia),

I found this info in the Russian forum - the link to an englishlanguage page.
Not so many, only 21 including dismounted; one or two ( or more ?) of these could be removed. Any suggestions ?

Most of these I know quite well - how should they look like at least.

Regards Hetman https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Dead Moroz

07-16-2004, 08:02

Quote[/b] (Hetman @ July 15 2004,12:47)]I found this info in the Russian forum - the link to an englishlanguage page.
Do you mean this site (http://janissary.batcave.net/ottoman_military.htm)?

Hetman

07-16-2004, 09:35

Yes. Thanks for the link https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Hetman

07-17-2004, 10:55

THE OTTOMANS

For the Ottoman army I selected the following units:

Kapikulu Infantries ( Yenicheri)
-Zirhli Nefer armored soldiers,

-Tüfekchi musketeers - from 'high',

-Okchu archers - only 'early',

Kapikulu Cavalries ( palace cavalry)
-Sipahi Corps Kirmizi Bayrak - majority of this elite,

-Silahdar Corps Sari Bayrak-Yellow Banner - bodyguards,

-Garib Corps - guardians of the Prophet's Banner,

'The Core' - provincional cavalry
- Timarli Sipahi heavy cavalry,

- Jebelü light cavalry,

frontier troops

-Akinjis not in 'late',

-Delil - 'Deli',

provincional infantry
-Azebs,

-Sekbans not in 'late' - peasants,

-Tüfekchi Musketeers - from 'high' or 'late',

-Levends from 'high' - bandits,

Auxiliaries
-The Algerian Naval soldiers called Ta'ifat Al Ru'sa ( musket armed),

-Balkan ( Serbia, Bulgaria) Voynuks heavy cav.

-Martolos Greek Auxiliaries - musket armed, bandits,

-Sharp-shooter Panduks - Bosnia,

-Ashirs (Syrian local militia),

I decided to remove Sarijas, because they are sharp-shoters and in my opinion this kind of infantry should be very difficult to find and recruit. The Panduks/Pandurs should be enough and they'll make Croatia and Serbia more important to keep ( will be available also to the HRE, Hungary, Venetia ( ?) and future Moldavia. Second unit I decided to delete were the Eflaks who wouldn't be very different than other types of musketeers.
Ashirs and Martalos are still here because I/we need more local, regionally available units. They are here even if I don't know much about the Ashirs.

So generally the Ottomans will have 19 units in their roster + will be able to recruit at least 10 more units from those available to other factions.

HUNGARY

I decided to add units exclusive to Moldavia ( except Calarisi) to hungarian unit list also, because I've found out that they were used in Transylvanian armies quite often.

GENERALLY

I removed Italian Mounted Crossbowmen from the roster. Something else should be added for the Italian factions, but still I don't know what.

At this moment we have 237 units - so we can add, let's say, 14
I believe ( the limit is 256, but I want to have some free slots, just in case...).

Regards Hetman https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Hetman

07-18-2004, 15:17

CAVALRY REVISITED

I checked all our cavalry units and delved into several sources. And I do think some of the cavalry units aren't necessary.

So here are the changes for

SPAIN

I removed the following -

Harquebusiers cavalry,

'Hombres de armas' cavalry

Later Hombres de armas cavalry

Carabiniers cavalry

The final cavalry roster for Spain will be as follows -

Archeros - elite cavalry, lance and pistols;

Jinetes - 'Celadas' - light cavalry with lances and pistols

Later Spanish Royal Guards - Archeros without lances;

'Herreruelo' - Spanish cuirassiers - similar to average western cuirassiers,

later Jinetes - 'Celadas' - without lances,

and new unit - Spanish Dragoons

I remind You that Spain would be able to use Mounted Crossbowmen, Mounted Arquebusiers, Lancers and German reiters, Mercenary Cuirassiers, Mercenary Dragoons + several other regional and buildable mercenary units and of course 'normal' hired mercenaries.

HOLLAND

I also decided to remove -

Dutch Mounted Harquebusiers, - 'Bereden Harquebusiers'

Because the 'generic' Mounted Arquebusiers are almost identical, I find no reason to give the Dutch their own mounted arquebusiers they were very similar in the whole Europe so the dutch unit is removed as the spanish one.

Instead the Dutch will get

Round shield Pikemen for 'high' (bodyguards).

They will be easy to add, even when it comes to the graphics - only adding some kind of shield to pikemen is necesary for them.

THIJSP - I will need this name in Dutch ( singular and plural), please
post it.

At this moment we have 234 units.

Now I'm serching for more units for France, Hungary, Italian states, Danemark and German states.

Regards Hetman https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

ThijsP

07-18-2004, 19:15

Well its not really a special name for it but if you want it in Dutch it is

singel: Piekenier met rondas(or for rondas rond schild)
plurar: Piekeniers met rondas(same thing)

edit: or mayby you can call them lijfwacht(sing) lijfwachten(plur). Thats just the translation of bodyguards

AlexPeters

07-19-2004, 18:10

Some more units:

DENMARK:
There aren't documentations about the danish army of the 16th and 17th century, well one idea:
Snapphane (Pl. Snapphanar)
> Picture (http://www.thomassondesign.com/design/images/webbild6.jpg)
I think the name means something like 'cock/chicken thief' (in german exists the word 'Schnapphahn').
Their organization varied from regular marksman companies in Danish service to pure gangs of robbers consisting of drifters. Around the 1660s there were several wars between Sweden and Denmark. In the province of Scania (now in southern Sweden) the Danish resistance fighters were called Snapphanar (singular form: Snapphane). These guerillas (to use a modern term) were peasants who kept up the fight even after a peaceful settlement had been reached and some groups degenerated into criminal bands.
In game:
small band (< 60)
undisciplined, poorly formed
unarmoured
armed with muskets (1660) of a lower quality (second hand)
good attack, weak defence
to reflect the fact that they are guerilla we could add the ability to hide in the open (depends on morale)
i'm not sure about the morale, on the one hand side they are peasants only (ability to hide but low morale), on the other hand side they are fanatics (not able to hide, high morale)

Additional pictures of other danish soldiers:
> Soldier (at Skara, 1611) (http://members.tripod.com/Strv102r/danbrann.jpg)
> Musketeer (1612) (http://members.tripod.com/Strv102r/Danmusk.jpg)
> Musketeer (Princess Anne of Denmark regiment, 1685) (http://www.military-models.com/pics/hp126.jpg)

SWEDEN:
Fänika (swedish lifeguards)
http://www.illustrata.com/images/fanik266.jpg
> Flash animation (for modeling ?) (http://www.illustrata.com/pages/slottlm/lmfanika4.swf)
Fänika (tactical unit used in the late dark ages)
A halberdier from Duke Karl's private army. The Swedish word for what we’ve referred to here as a private army is fänika, and it means 'he who follows the standard (fana)'. Duke Karl built up his own fänika in the last decade of the 16th century, putting Mårten Buller (Buller=rumbling)
from Bullersta farm in charge of it. This army played
a crucial role in Duke Karl’s military victory at Stångebro, Sweden in 1598 over his nephew Sigismund, king of Poland and Sweden. This army went on to become Södermanland’s Regement, which was primarily a domestic unit with police-like duties. It was also used to build infrastructure, protect the Duke and keep the peace.
In game:
I'm not sure about this unit, in early/late they are life-/bodyguards but later they are used as police only.
I think we could make them good militia (bound to a royal building, palace ?) and use them in all eras.
In early/late they could form the swedish bodyguards.
size 60
armed with sword and halberd
unarmoured
good defense
good morale
bonus attacking armoured units and cavalry

Alex

AlexPeters

07-19-2004, 21:46

I thought it would be helpful to post some links to interesting pages. Some of them might be known already, but...

Swedish army:
all regiments (infantry, cavalry, artillery) with descriptions. (http://www.algonet.se/~hogman/slahem_eng.htm)

A very good french website (covers mostly 18th century) with descriptions of units (http://vial.jean.free.fr/new_npi/archives/archiv.htm)
Translated sub-pages with infos on 17th century units:
French army (very detailed, google translation) (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fvial.jean.free.fr%2Fnew_npi%2Farchives%2Farch_fran.htm&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools)
Spanish army (high only, google translation) (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fvial.jean.free.fr%2Fnew_npi%2Farchives%2Farch_esp.htm&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools)
Piemont and smaller italian states (google translation) (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fvial.jean.free.fr%2Fnew_npi%2Farchives%2Farch_savoy.htm&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools)
HRE and smaller german states, bavaria (google translation, some pictures) (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fvial.jean.free.fr%2Fnew_npi%2Farchives%2Farch_all.htm&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools)

Ottomans (http://www.theottomans.org/english/campaigns_army/index.asp)

Detailed description of the Stradiots (http://www.shsu.edu/~his_ncp/Stradioti.html)

Historical informations of all eras:
newarkirregulars.org.uk (http://www.newarkirregulars.org.uk/links/mhresearch.html) (a lot of very useful links)
xenophongi.org (http://www.xenophongi.org/xenindex.htm)

Descriptions of battles and battlefields of the period:
TYW battles (http://www.nsalmon.btinternet.co.uk/TYW/battles.htm)
Polish wars (http://www.jasinski.co.uk/wojna/battles/BattlesHome.htm)
Huguenots, french religious wars (http://www.fall-in.org/french_history.htm)

Army compositions:
Polish only (http://www.jasinski.co.uk/wojna/comp/comp01.htm)
not that detailed (http://www.freewargamesrules.co.uk/Rules/Renaissance/LONList.html)

Pictures:
early french (http://www.militarydispatches.co.uk/galleries/historical/his16cfr.htm)
cavalry only (http://www.lukehistory.com/cavalry/cavtypes.html)
Spanish cavalry (http://www.lilliputmodel.com/alabarda/uniformes/esp/cab/clonard/cab_clonard.htm)

Maps (descriptions in german):
Netherlands about 1620 (http://www.datenmatrix.de/cgi-local/hdbg-karten/karten.cgi?action=detail&templ=01_01_karten_detail_druck&id=29)
Central europe (political, 1610) (http://www.datenmatrix.de/cgi-local/hdbg-karten/karten.cgi?action=detail&templ=01_01_karten_detail_druck&id=18)

A little OT but interesting:
Danish-Norwegian light infantry on skies. 1747- (http://www.elverumske.no/esc_english/main_eng.htm)

Alex

Hetman

07-21-2004, 09:29

The mod enters implementing phase, so I'm revising the unit list.
I'm finishing the removal of the units which are not important/usefull enough.

Recently I implemented all moldavian units, most of polish and almost all pikemen/musketeer units.

MORE CHANGES

I decided to remove georgian

Swordsmen Mkhedrebi - cavalry - 'Khmlosani Mkhedrebi'

from the roster. Creating one unit charging with spears and fighting with swords makes more sense to me. Sorry Datka

Alexe's proposals will be implemented.

'Snapphanar' for Danemark in 'late', in Norway only ( there is no Scania yet). These guys will have rather low morale, would hide in the open in 50 men units, armed with muskets ( quite accurate type - they were marksmen after all).
They will in addition affect protestant zeal.

'Fänika'

OK, they are in.
Available in 'early' and 'high' and also will be Swedish royal bodyguards at this time.
In 'late' they were like police, so could be replaced with ordinary urban militia.
I think it is the best solution.

In addition they will replace Drabanterna, which is removed ( not enough info about them).

BUILDABLE MERCENARIES

Earlier I thought they should be rather time-consuming when it comes to recruitment, but cheap.

Now, what about 1 year recruitment time, but very high maintenance cost
( 150 % of initial recruitment cost) ?

PROJECTILE

I prepared the missile stats for the mod.

There are - longbows, compound bows, heavy crossbows, throwing spears,

and firearms - pistol ( fast reload), pistol (slow reload), arquebus,
musket, more accurate and fast-reloading musket for better troops, muskets for elite units ( even faster reload) and finally flintlock musket for the most advanced units ( at least 1 will be added - 'generic' if one only).

DANISH CAVALRY

Since I have only one source about danish army (this about cavalry), I can only propose 1 new unit for the Danish faction - National Cavalry
( 'Nationale Ryttere' ?) - unarmoured cavalry armed with a sword and
2 pistols ( fast reload) with good morale, available in 'late' and generally not very different from average cavalry of this period.
i know it's not very interesting, but it is one of few units which can be called Danish, unfortunatelly.
Maybe someone else has more interesting ideas.

DISMOUNTED CAVALRY

Some specific, although not many, infantry units for dismounted cavalry are necessary.
Of course not every unit should use one of these entries.

Proposals:

Dismounted early cavalry - armoured, sword-armed;

Dismounted later cavalry - unarmoured ( ?), broadsword;

Dismounted eastern armoured cavalry - chainmail armour, sabre ( very useful for lots of cavalry units);

Dismounted hungarian/polish/maybe moldavian nobles - very unique outfits, similar to russian so maybe one of russian units could use this entry ( Dead Moroz what do You think ?), no armour, sabre;

These are my proposals, any comments/ideas ?

STILL ONLY

234 units at this moment.

regards Hetman https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Vlad The Impaler

07-21-2004, 11:22

Quote[/b] (Hetman @ July 15 2004,03:47)]NEWS

MOLDAVIA

I did some research and
I believe we can add Moldavia as playable faction for 'early', but certainly not in the first release, anyway here are the units they'll get.

Oastea Mica Boyars - medium/heavy bodyguard cavalry armed with bows and lances,

Oastea Mica Viteji Retainers - light cavalry with compound bows and spears,

Calarisi - elite infantry with bows, will be able to hide everywhere,

presently used Moldavian cavalry and Moldavian skirmishers are replaced with:

Oastea Mare cavalry - rather mounted infantry than cavalry, but cheap and able to dismount every time to -

Razesi - ordinary infantry armed with compound bows and swords,

the two units above will be available as regional units in Moldavia and Carpathia

in addition Wallachian Cavalry will be able to dismount into Calarisi in open battles ( to make it really useful).

Future Moldavia will get access to mercenary units, some units from closer factions ( Cossacks, some Tatar units ...) and even some ottoman units ( from Balkans).

I know that adding Moldavia means more valuable unit slots to use, but I think 3 units isn't high price to pay for additional and rather unique faction for the Balkans.
i will write you here about Moldavia not only about the units but aswell about the factions.feel free to use any info or ask me if u dont understand something.
Capital should be Suceava .
the starting grand voivode should be Steven the Great ( 1457 -1504 ).he is considered the greatest romanian voivode , an huge personality , very fervent ( he build around 40 churches and monastaires, one for each battle he won ), excelent defender ( he lost just 2 batle from 36 ), adultery ( a lots of wifes and concubines , ilegitimate children etc.), scant mercy or autocrat ( he executed a lots of boyars who opposed his laws), lawmaker also.at the time when the period starts he was already well known by his friends or his enemies.he died at 65 so he seize throne at 18 years, this should tell a lot about his performances.he manage to keep an independent external policy between two catholic militant states as Hungaria and Poland , Tartars and Ottoman Empire.he was the cousin of Vlad The Implaler.
if u need more info about his heirs or heroes let me know and i'll edit this post ( i'll respond here to have all info in one piece).

about the army.
this consists in The Little Army ( meaning Oastea Mica ).
this was formed from : the householders ( guards of voivode court).this were sons of boyars ( little or big nobles) send for military duty .they were medium cavalry , they wear grey to white uniforms, black leather hats and armors as chain mail or imitations after the tartars lamelar armors or somthing i dont know well in english but in latin is lorica thorax, maybe someone will explain you.their weapons were a lance in the billmen fashion with one head for push and for picking the enemy and composite bow.
also in the Little Army ( Oastea Mica ) Steven the Great make one core of peasants ( razesi in romanian, freemen ) that were raised in little nobilty ranks because of their skills in battle.this core was called pantiri ( about 1000-2000 soldiers) and it was a little heavier armoured than the guards of the voivode householders ( curteni, copii de casa in romanian).
their weapons were lance and sword , they were troops for punch , for charging.
the little army have also the mercenaries.first cossacks, poles,wallachian , hungarian or german troops from Transylvania , szeklers ( directly interested in defending their borderland against turks.) also later were used a lot of german , czech , slovak troops , especially troops with archebuses , guns.
a special part of the little army are the borders ( plaiesi in romanian ).they were guarding the fortresses the sourrronding moldavian territory.althoug freemen they were on permanent duty at various defensive points.
The Big Army ( Oastea Mare in romanian ) consist on freemen,razesi in romanian.they were also mounted or dismounted it depends in wich region was their village.the ones from around borders were usually mounted ( because they have to counter tartars or turkish akancii) , the ones from interior were usually on foot.they use bows and lances , wood shields, some have light armours.Steven gave them great privileges , this was his great defensive force , very mobile in defence on interior lines but not so good in long offensive ( because they have to get back to work the land they own).i think the serbians from military regions from Antemuralis Christianis from Bosnia are the best comparison.they were fierce warriors , they know their rights and because of their land they were somehow wealthy compared with peasants from other countries.there are villages of razesi in even actual romanian Moldavia with papers signed by Steven the Great that guaratee their common property on land and their rights.

ok..let me know what u want to know more, heroes, functions to the court of various assistants of voivode..anything.

Dead Moroz

07-21-2004, 14:56

Quote[/b] (Hetman @ July 21 2004,12:29)]Dismounted hungarian/polish/maybe moldavian nobles - very unique outfits, similar to russian so maybe one of russian units could use this entry ( Dead Moroz what do You think ?), no armour, sabre;
IIRC the dismounted units of Russians are Ryndy (no armour, axe), Cossacks (no armour, rifle, sabre), Mounted Streltsy (no armour, rifle, berdysh) and Dragoons (no armour, rifle, berdysh). Mounted Streltsy and Dragoons in dismounted state will use the graphics of Streltsy. Dismounted Ryndy have very unique appearance.
So we have only dismounted cossacks. If those Dismounted nobles will have rifles I wouldn't mind them to share the graphics with cossacks.
I don't see any other Russian units who need dismounted state and whose equipment is the same with those Dismounted nobles.

Hetman

07-22-2004, 09:17

Bear in mind that even Znat and other feudal cavalry need dismounted forms for castle assaults.

Hetman https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Dead Moroz

07-22-2004, 12:22

Quote[/b] (Hetman @ July 22 2004,12:17)]Bear in mind that even Znat and other feudal cavalry need dismounted forms for castle assaults.
Agreed. But... I've never used dismounted units for castle assaults. I prefer them in mounted state to quickly pass the territory where they are under fire of towers. Anyway it's the matter of taste. https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Russian Znat and Pomestnaya Konnitsa could not use the graphics of Dismounted Nobles because Znat are armoured and PK have unique dress.

AlexPeters

07-22-2004, 12:29

New units, additional descriptions of already known units and some links:

HRE:
Verlorne Haufe (Singular and Plural are equal)
Verlorener Haufen (todays german)
Literally a lost bunch of Imperial skirmishers (criminals and some volunteers), usually armed with two-handed swords and halberds, who ran ahead of the army to disrupt enemy pike blocks. Musketeers and arquebusiers were similarly employed. The task was very hazardous, and these troops were written off as casualties as soon as they were comitted to battle.
Their flag was always red.

SWISS:
Reisläufer (Pl. Reisläufer)
The swiss mercenaries that served in foreign armies called themself 'Reisläufer' (Trip/Tour = Reise, Runner = Läufer) - not mercenaries.

FRANCE:
Gendarmes
Gens d'armes. Heavily armoured (usually French) knights
Special formation: Gendarmes de la Garde

Enfants Perdus (Sing. Enfant Perdus ?)
Literally, lost children or Children of Hell. French skirmishing arquebusiers. See verlorne Haufe above.

Argoulets (Sing. Argoulet ?)
French mounted arquebusiers, renowned for their excellent marksmanship with a musket
> picture (http://www.argoulets.com/section4/argoulets.jpg)

French Guards (Maison du Roi):
Gendarmes de la Garde (see above Gendarmes)
Chevau-légers
Gardes du Corps
> picture (http://perso.wanadoo.fr/gbfwss/Site%20WSS/Maison%20du%20Roi/Gardes%20du%20Corps%201%E8re%20compagnie.gif)

Grenadier à cheval (Pl. Grenadiers à cheval)
Mounted Grenadiers, the best grenadiers (on foot) of all french regiments formed a special cavalry company of 100 men. Founded 1676.
> picture (http://perso.wanadoo.fr/gbfwss/Site%20WSS/Maison%20du%20Roi/Grenadiers%20%E0%20cheval%20copie.gif)

Mousquetaires du Roi
Mousquetaires Gris (Gray Musketeers, 1st company, 1657)
> picture (http://perso.wanadoo.fr/gbfwss/Site%20WSS/Maison%20du%20Roi/Mousquetaires%201%E8re%20compagnie.gif)
and
Mousquetaires Noirs (Black Musketeers, 2nd company, 1665)
> picture (http://perso.wanadoo.fr/gbfwss/Site%20WSS/Maison%20du%20Roi/Mousquetaires%202%E8me%20compagnie.gif)
each company 250 men, mounted
> picture (http://www.crdp-toulouse.fr/cddp-32/html/documentation/artagnan/images/expo_2_mouscheval.gif)

Foot Guards:
Gardes Françaises
> picture (http://perso.wanadoo.fr/gbfwss/Site%20WSS/Maison%20du%20Roi/Gardes%20Fran%E7aises.gif)
Gardes Suisses
> picture (http://perso.wanadoo.fr/gbfwss/Site%20WSS/Maison%20du%20Roi/Gardes%20Suisses.gif)

Miller (Pl. Millers)
Heavy Cavalry of the French Huguenots (Armoured, Sword and Pistol)
> picture (http://www.stapells.com/wargames/armies/graphics/hugmiller.jpg)

SPAIN:
Herreruelo (Pl. Herreruelos)
Spanish sword and pistol cavalry - like Reiters
> picture (http://www.intecjima.com/tienda/images/herreruelo_imp_b.jpg)

Herguletier (Pl. Herguletiers)
Spanish mounted arquebusiers.

Escopetero (Pl.Escopeteros)
Spanish mounted arquebusiers/musketeers.
> picture (http://www.terra.es/personal/j.saura/uniformidad/getares.gif) (1705 style)

Caballos Ligeros
Lightly armoured Spanish knights - demi-lances

Caballos Corazas
Armoured 17th C. Spanish sword & pistol cavalry (cuirassiers).

ITALY:
Papal/Swiss Guards
founded 1507, fericous fighting swiss mercenaries, saved the pope in the battle of rome (sacco di roma, 1527)

Galleas (Ship)
A combination of galley and galleon with oars and sails, and guns mounted fore, aft, and broadside
Galeazza Veneziana
> Picture (http://www.kordi.re.kr/chongseo/images/vol8_photo59.gif)
More pictures of ships on my pages.

Scapoli (i'm not that firm in italian, singular could be Scapolo)
Ships crews used for land combat, usually by Venetians

Famiglia Ducale
Italian Ducal bodyguard knights.

Cavalleria Leggiera
Lightly armoured Italian knights - demi-lances.

ARTILLERY:
Culverin
A very long-barreled field gun firing 17-20 lb. shot.
Demiculverins
fired 10 lb. shot.
Drake
Brass land and naval guns firing 6 lb. shot.
Falcon
Medieval light gun.
Falconet
Light swivel gun with 2 bore.
Minion
3.25 bore, 4 lb. shot.
Ribaldequin
Organ or battery gun with several small-bore barrels mounted parallel on the same platform, the Renaissance equivalent of grapeshot.
Saker
Land and naval gun, smaller than demiculverin, 5 lb. shot.
Serpentine
Small gun with 1.5 bore and removable breech

Additional articles:
Renaissance Armies: The English - Henry VIII to Elizabeth (http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_armies_eng.html)
Renaissance Armies: The Irish (http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_armies_irish.html)
Renaissance Armies: The Scots (http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_armies_scots.html)
Renaissance Armies: Military Orders (http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_armies_orders.html)
Renaissance Armies: The Swiss (http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_armies_swiss.html)
The Winged Hussars of Poland (http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_hussars.html)
(English) Swords 1600-1650 (maybe useful for modeling ?) (http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_engswords.html)

Alex