View Full Version : Kung Fu Mafia [Concluded]
It is, if I'm lynched I'll be back from the dead and terrorize all who dared to vote me...
BlackAxe3001
05-03-2007, 03:51
Alright, in the interest of the game, I thought about my vote and really it was not thought out at all and I think that we probably should discuss our bandwagoning just a bit before we go and take out what could be a townie. As far as we know, Ichigo is the mafia because Ichigo = guilty. A little extra discussion doesn't hurt the game any. For now:
Unvote: Tran
Ichigo: 1 (GH)
Andres: 1 (BK)
BK: 5 (Tran, Redleg, Stig, Omanes, greaterkhaan)
CR: 1 (Andres)
Stig : 1 (CA)
TwilightBlade : 1 (pevergreen)
Xehh: 1 (Xdeathfire)
no lynch: 2 (HughTower, Roadkill)
Tran: 6 (Kommo, Crazed Rabbit, Orb, Ichigo, Caius, discovery1)
discovery1
05-03-2007, 04:02
Challenge: BlackAxe cuz people say he's scum
Right, enough of these disco! Your reason for voting is very odd at best, you sound very very scummy...
Unvote, Vote: discovery1
Andres: 1 (BK)
ByzantineKnight: 4 (Redleg, Stig, Omanes, greaterkhaan)
CountArach: 1 (Andres)
discovery1: 1 (Tran)
Ichigo: 1 (GH)
Stig : 1 (CA)
Tran: 6 (Kommo, Crazed Rabbit, Orb, Ichigo, Caius, discovery1)
TwilightBlade : 1 (pevergreen)
Xehh: 1 (Xdeathfire)
No Lynch: 2 (HughTower, Roadkill)
seireikhaan
05-03-2007, 04:16
Challenge: BlackAxe3001. I just wanna beat him up right now. Plus, if he's mafia, it'll give us a chance to incapacitate him.
I forgot this Challenge: discovery1 , can't wait to whack his scummy head
Crazed Rabbit
05-03-2007, 04:38
Challenge:Crazed Rabbit
I accept.
CR
Sasaki Kojiro
05-03-2007, 05:58
Hello, I'm back. With the 7th vote, Tran was lynched. BlackAxe your unvote does not count.
The kung fu teacher whose day training you purchase is a non player character.
You pm me to buy items and to purchase training.
Only duel challenges issued before the lynching vote will count. In the future I'd appreciate it if a duel tally was collected as well.
Also, please don't spam.
pevergreen
05-03-2007, 06:04
Awww Sasaki, no need to delete everything.
Night pgase now?
Well there goes my entire case against pever up in smoke. Thanks Sasaki. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JduO4OGZKY8&mode=related&search=)
Sasaki Kojiro
05-03-2007, 06:06
Yes it is nightphase. Some posts from me in a bit.
Another question answered: normally I will pm you and inform you of updates to your kung fu score and amount of gold.
Sasaki Kojiro
05-03-2007, 06:07
Also, new rule:
posting youtube links is a mod-killable offense ~D
Also, new rule:
posting youtube links is a mod-killable offense ~D
Well then kill me cause I'm not stopping no ones making them click the links. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ldjbjwim4k&mode=related&search=)
Crazed Rabbit
05-03-2007, 06:36
pevergreen - at one school I heard of, one could bypass restrictions on google searching by using advanced search.
PM me and I'll send you a link for good proxy software.
CR
Sasaki Kojiro
05-03-2007, 06:59
The inhabitants of the temple were thrown into an uproar by the deaths of two of their members. Accusations flew thick and fast. At first it was ByzantineKnight who had votes piled against him, but Liu Fujian quickly passed him up and reached the required majority. 7 townies took him and threw him off the edge of the cliff.
Tran: 7 (Kommo, Crazed Rabbit, Orb, Ichigo, Caius, BlackAxe, disco)
BK: 6 (Tran, Redleg, Stig, Omanes, greaterkhaan, GH)
CR: 1 (Andres)
Stig : 1 (CA)
Andres: 1 (BK)
TwilightBlade : 1 (pevergreen)
Xehh: 1 (Xdeathfire)
no lynch: 1 (HughTower)
***********
Sapi Vs Andres
The first duel is set to begin. The fighters ready themselves. Both are using Dragon style so no advantage will be gained there. Once the fight starts however, it is obvious that Sapi does not need one. He pummels Andres left and right, knocking him out with in ten seconds.
*****
Orb Vs Ichigo
These fighters are closer to each other's skill level, with a slight edge to Orb. However, Orb's Dragon style is the natural antithesis of Ichigo's White Crane style, and this is enough to allow Orb to soundly defeat Ichigo.
******
Sigurd Vs discovery1
This fight is a reverse of the previous fight. It is evident that Sigurd is a much better fighter, but disco's praying mantis helps him vs Sigurds dragon. It is not enough however, and disco is defeated.
********
Killed (2):
Dutch_guy
ChuggtheSquirrel
Lynched (1):
Tran
Living (34):
Ichigo
Warmaster Horus
pevergreen
Faust|
Xdeathfire
Kommodus
Greaterkhaan
ByzantineKnight
Crazed Rabbit
CountArach
Omanes
Stig
Warluster
Andres
Sigurd
Caius
Sapi
BlackAxe
Ignoramus
RoadKill
Redleg
Killfrenzy
Ultrawar
Orb
doc_bean
GH
TwilightBlade
discovery1
Pannonian
The_Stranger
Xehh
HughTower
Kagemusha
Beefy187
It is now night 2. I will be sending out pm's containing kung fu score +money information. Please send night 2 actions (players who lost duels may not).
challenges were:
sapi vs andres
pevergreen vs tb
andres vs The stranger
xdeathfire vs byzantine knight
orb vs ichigo
sigurd vs discovery1
GH vs Ichigo
Also, if you make a challenge and do not specify a style, your starting style will be used.
pevergreen
05-03-2007, 07:10
Well, then I want my Kung Fu score back. I expect no surprises :whip:
Sasaki Kojiro
05-03-2007, 07:38
ok jesus christ that's a lot of pm's.
After this round, I will only be sending non-obvious stats. If you wish to confirm your stats you may pm me at any time.
ChuggtheSquirrel
05-03-2007, 07:59
I finally have time to make a bah post.
To whom it concerns, coughmafiacough
First off, chopping off a guy's head from behind is just cowardly, and if you didn't, you woulda gotten kicked into the middle of next week. (I like that expression :laugh4: )
Second off, I did NOT scar the fountain in any way, so I didn't need punishment. :inquisitive:
Third off, this game is cool and you knocked me off, so BAH!!!
Chugg
In support of my fellow monk ChuggtheSquirrel: GAH!!!
Liu Fujian a.k.a Tran
pevergreen
05-03-2007, 08:02
Bah and Gah are hardly the same thing :laugh4:
I propose that we use the kung-fu fights to our advantage, as we began to use the holmgang fights near the end of Sigurid's excellent mafia
What this means is the following:
- immediate stop on all fight orders without town permission
- attempt to identify the townie with the best kung-fu score. if we don't want to go public, go off the matches
- use of the kung-fu contests to block the actions of the three main suspects in order to see if the mafia kills drop
This is good, however if we fight Mafia and they defeat us they will have an increase in their score ... which means killing using Kung Fu is easier.
I think the mafia will also have limited poison and weapons so they might have to use Kung Fu to kill the townies. If they have a higher Kung Fu they will easely win.
Better to act than otherwise...
pevergreen
05-03-2007, 12:23
:yes:
Tis true, it would have worked in migard if we had more people in it, and started it earlier.
Exactly.
I'm happy to act as the fall guy/combatent for the town if other people want to keep their abilities secret (seeing as I've already fought)
HughTower
05-03-2007, 13:04
Why should we trust you?
Why should you not trust me?
You know as well as I do that mafia is a game based on trust. We have no way to form networks - except for speaking to murdered players - but to trust that the person at the other end is a townie.
I am a townie.
You can believe me or not, depending on your level of trust in me/mafia history/mood at the time.
That's your choice.
But when I suggest that we, the members of the town, make use of a feature of this particular mafia game, a feature that we failed to make use of in time in Sigurd's mafia, you should listen, regardless of your personal views on my trustworthiness.
Because, believe it or not, I want us townies to win...
Why should we trust you?
Good question. By fighting throughout the day, you gain experience and a higher Kung Fu score (if you win that is). Since the mafia has to perform kills at night, I take it they cannot train as well during the night. So the only way to keep killing + gaining Kung Fu scores is by fighting or paying for training... But maybe the mafia wants to spend his money on weapons and thus needs the duels to gain higher levels...
So, if we help sapi in becoming an über-warrior by allowing him to fight weaker opponents every day, we must be pretty damn sure he is with us and not against us.
:inquisitive:
@Sasaki: can a mafioso perform two actions during the night, i.e.: performing a kill + practise Kung Fu/get Kung Fu traning ?
It doesn't really matter how good a warrior I am - being poisoned will still result in my death regardless :grin2:
Oh, and pever can vouch for me.
Oh, and pever can vouch for me.
No you convinced him of your innocence, that's different from vouching.
Anyone can fake being townie as the townie PM is public
Oh, and pever can vouch for me.
How is that?
Training somebody doesn't mean you are innocent. So it must be something else.
Care to elaborate?
HughTower
05-03-2007, 13:38
It doesn't really matter how good a warrior I am - being poisoned will still result in my death regardless :grin2:
Oh, and pever can vouch for me.
Your logic isn't the problem, it is as AndrestheCunning so eloquently details, it's your role as the uber-warrior/fulcrum that I call into question - it's too important to be held by one person on faith alone. Maybe as a rotated role, however.......
You know as well as I do that mafia is a game based on trust.
Please don't put words into my mouth, or my mind, or whatever..... I base my game not on BLIND trust, as you are asking, but on EARNED trust.
Why on earth would I trust pevergreen?
Understand me though, it's not that I find you suspicious particularly, it's just that you don't have my trust. The only people who do are Chugg & Dutch.
Omanes Alexandrapolites
05-03-2007, 13:54
@Sasaki: can a mafioso perform two actions during the night, i.e.: performing a kill + practise Kung Fu/get Kung Fu traning?Highly suspicious, why do you ask such a framing question?
BTW, no I don't think they can, it's only one action per night phase.
If Andres was mafia he would have asked it in PM I think.
Furthermore I think the mafia have high Kung Fu levels (as otherwise it will be hard for them), so I think (and only think) Andres is innocent.
Highly suspicious, why do you ask such a framing question?
BTW, no I don't think they can, it's only one action per night phase.
I don't see what's wrong with my question. It's a very pertinent one and it points out the dangers of putting to much trust in another player.
I'll explain it:
What would be my mafia tactic in case I am mafia and I can only perform one night action:
Kung Fu masters: risky for the mafia to kill them with Kung Fu, since the highly skilled townie can capture them --> the mafia needs weapons and poison, it's the safest way to perform those kills = they need all the gold they can get.
However, high Kung Fu score is usefull as well, to prevent being incapacitated during the night and to kill off easy targets (=players with low Kung Fu scores) --> gold is needed to buy items, so they must look for cheap methods of getting better Kung Fu score 1) cheap "night methods" practice and getting trained by a player with high Kung Fu stats = night actions, not possible because they need to kill during the night; other cheap method = duel during day time + if it's an easy win, the mafia detects the "easy kill targets", i.e. those with low Kung Fu stats, they can be killed without spilling precious poison/weapons.
Furthermore I think the mafia have high Kung Fu levels (as otherwise it will be hard for them), so I think (and only think) Andres is innocent.
Probably, but they need to improve their Kung Fu skills, because the townies will keep practising and training, eventually getting high levels as well. That's why they need money to buy weapons and cheap methods to improve their skills.
Unless they can kill and practice/train during the night. If not, the only choice they have is a duel or buying lessons from the Kung Fu master, but those are expensive and they need money for weapons and poison to have succesfull murder attempts on the high skilled townies.
seireikhaan
05-03-2007, 14:12
Probably, but they need to improve their Kung Fu skills, because the townies will keep practising and training, eventually getting high levels as well. That's why they need money to buy weapons and cheap methods to improve their skills.
Unless they can kill and practice/train during the night. If not, the only choice they have is a duel or buying lessons from the Kung Fu master, but those are expensive and they need money for weapons and poison to have succesfull murder attempts on the high skilled townies.
Wasn't the one of the first kills with a sword? I never saw a sword in the store. It looks to me like the mafia have their own weapons that they didn't have to buy. If they have their own weapons, why would they spend money to buy from the store?
If they have their own weapons, why would they spend money to buy from the store?
Good question.
@ Sasaki, does the mafia gets weapons to start with? Is there a difference in the write-up of a kill performed with a weapon, a kill performed with poison and a kill performed with Kung Fu? Or are there no clues whatsoever in the write-ups?
BlackAxe3001
05-03-2007, 14:20
Good point gk. Interesting to say the least...
Oh, I forgot to mention that I have a flamethrower for personal defense and Tran gave me command of his legions of Stormtroopers before he died, so good luck killing me you scummy mafia.
Kommodus
05-03-2007, 14:58
Well, it looks like the bandwagon I started on Tran has carried the day. Interesting.
- Tell me...why random vote is guilty? It's just a way to start the game...
- Why should I say much when obviously there's nothing I really have to say
- What do you really expect? You seems like a mafioso yourself...and like pever said, all the last voters on me are suspicious too, that made the following people very suspicious:
Kommodus
Ichigo
Caius
BlackAxe
Discovery1
Tran, the logic I used against you was essentially the same that I used to identify Andres in the first round of Mafia VI. That doesn't make me right, but it''s the best I could come up with in the first round.
To answer your questions:
1. A random vote isn't necessarily suspicious; as you point out, a lot of people do it in round 1, with nothing better to do. What made it suspicious to me was that you just sort of slipped it in there; other people had already cast a few random votes and so there was nothing to make yours stand out. Also, you voted for BK, which didn't look random to me, despite your claim - it looked "safe."
2. Don't belittle my intelligence as if I have no experience playing these games. I wasn't looking for someone who simply said little, as those exist in abundance. I was looking for someone who was saying just enough, but not too much. You fit that profile. If I was wrong, I'm sorry.
3. There's no need to get defensive and retaliatory. In the end it's still more likely that I was wrong than right - but not maliciously. Everyone has to use some kind of reasoning, and I did the best I could.
Even if you were innocent (a definite possibility), we learned some interesting things from this round of voting. I'll share more after the night phase ends.
Crazed Rabbit
05-03-2007, 15:11
Good question.
@ Sasaki, does the mafia gets weapons to start with? Is there a difference in the write-up of a kill performed with a weapon, a kill performed with poison and a kill performed with Kung Fu? Or are there no clues whatsoever in the write-ups?
Considering that one of the guys was killed with a sword, I think the answer is
Yes,
Yes,
There are clues. Like 'he got his head chopped off with a sword'.
CR
Considering that one of the guys was killed with a sword, I think the answer is
Yes,
Yes,
There are clues. Like 'he got his head chopped off with a sword'.
CR
Now that you're here: are you innocent?
Very good post. Nice explanation. Words of an intelligent mind and an experienced mafia hunter.
But there's also the possibility you are mafia. As a detective in Ichigo's game, you were first on my "to investigate players" list.
So if there is a detective, I strongly advice him to investigate Kommodus first.
Sasaki Kojiro
05-03-2007, 15:46
@Sasaki: can a mafioso perform two actions during the night, i.e.: performing a kill + practise Kung Fu/get Kung Fu traning ?
One night action only.
@ Sasaki, does the mafia gets weapons to start with? Is there a difference in the write-up of a kill performed with a weapon, a kill performed with poison and a kill performed with Kung Fu? Or are there no clues whatsoever in the write-ups?
They can kill with whatever weapons they like. They may also purchase weapons and in so doing get an extra kill. The kill write up will indicate if the kill was performed with weapon/poison/kung fu.
Liu Fujian a.k.a Tran
Oh what the hell!H.S., you should had tell me who was!
Dutch_guy
05-03-2007, 20:32
Now that you're here: are you innocent?
I'd be sure to make him answer that one, let's see if he values his rep. ~;)
A simple yes or no is good enough...
:balloon2:
GeneralHankerchief
05-03-2007, 22:33
Why the challenge on Ichigo?
I challenged because
I wanted to knock him out
I still don't trust him
The Stranger
05-03-2007, 23:16
eh... Andres... why the Challenge? and why ois there no narrative of the challenge... im confused... i dont get this game anymore...
what can u do again in a nightphase?
pevergreen
05-04-2007, 00:21
You havent fully convinced me sapi, i just dont have anyone else i trust yet.
I propose that we use the kung-fu fights to our advantage, as we began to use the holmgang fights near the end of Sigurid's excellent mafia
What this means is the following:
- immediate stop on all fight orders without town permission
- attempt to identify the townie with the best kung-fu score. if we don't want to go public, go off the matches
- use of the kung-fu contests to block the actions of the three main suspects in order to see if the mafia kills drop
What if one of the Mafia has the highest Kung Fu value? this seems quite plausible (they know who their number are, we don't).
I'm happy with this idea, but first we need to check why everyone issued challenges.
Mine was largely for the novelty of the new concept and flexing my starting Kung Fu score.
It seems to me that someone needs to organize the townie's into protection groups to help protect others within the game. This will require a building of trust between the different players of the game. This worked well in Capo - but it is also very easy for a mafia player to inflirate and cause a failed protection.
So for now - I have limited trust on any one player concerning thier role. I think that forming a collective nature on the challenges is also good, however the individual directing that type of action will have to be protected at night or the mafia will most likely target that individual or individuals.
Trust is the key to winning the game.
'sapi vs andres
pevergreen vs tb
andres vs The stranger
xdeathfire vs byzantine knight
orb vs ichigo
sigurd vs discovery1
GH vs Ichigo'
Left are the challengers, I assume, right the challenged.
Sapi, Pever, Sigurd, Andres and xdeathfire to explain
pevergreen
05-04-2007, 01:21
TB was annoying in RL, i challanged him :grin2:
Just to see if i could beat him in a fight.
Now that you're here: are you innocent?
Extremely scummy. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1tiLOMjSiQ)
TB was annoying in RL, i challanged him
Just to see if i could beat him in a fight.
You too. You start telling me to act serious when most of your posts are joking. Double standard? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1tiLOMjSiQ)
TevashSzat
05-04-2007, 01:47
Byzantine Knight was getting alot of votes so I challenged him to try to make sure he doesn't do anything in case he does not get lynched
The Stranger
05-04-2007, 02:59
:O I'm Mafia
Well Caius... you were wrong...
Mafia does say it like that
in the meanwhile... I'm bored...
:O I'm Mafia
Well Caius... you were wrong...
Mafia does say it like that
in the meanwhile... I'm bored...
Hmmmm (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8P_cEHv9Zc&mode=related&search=)
pevergreen
05-04-2007, 04:44
I refuse to answer to anything Ichigo says from now on, if it has Youtube tags on it.
I refuse to answer to anything Ichigo says from now on, if it has Youtube tags on it.
You=:bigcry:
BlackAxe3001
05-04-2007, 05:06
You=:bigcry:
Agreed
pevergreen
05-04-2007, 05:08
no, im just not in the greatest mood. Youtube tags are not needed.
You=:stupido2:
no, im just not in the greatest mood. Youtube tags are not needed.
You=:stupido2:
What do the red letters hurt your eyes pever? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8P_cEHv9Zc&mode=related&search=)
pevergreen
05-04-2007, 05:30
No, they are blue.
Indeedily-do (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8zQYEJK7MA)
What do the red letters hurt your eyes pever? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8P_cEHv9Zc&mode=related&search=)
damn, good job.
seireikhaan
05-04-2007, 06:06
Alright, Ichigo, you are officially the King of all Spam, Lord Spamalot. You rule the land of Spamenia, over a people called the Spamese. Happy? Now, please, back to topic!:focus:
pevergreen
05-04-2007, 07:49
Nicely summed greaterkhaan.
'sapi vs andres
pevergreen vs tb
andres vs The stranger
xdeathfire vs byzantine knight
orb vs ichigo
sigurd vs discovery1
GH vs Ichigo'
Left are the challengers, I assume, right the challenged.
Sapi, Pever, Sigurd, Andres and xdeathfire to explain
I challenged for two reasons:
1) Because I always play randomly in the first round
2) To increase my kung-fu score
Yes, that can be seen as irresponsible, but in the first round we've got nothing to go on.
From now on, however, I am and will be a strong advocate of organised kung-fu matches.
I'm happy for these to work on a rotation basis, with regards to who does teh fighting, but I offered myself because a) I've already fought and thus fighting again wouldn't give the mafia any more knowledge about player weaknesses and b) I believe i've got the highest kung-fu score of the townies and c) I'm the only person (apart from Tran) who I know to be innnocent
Who fights doesn't really matter, as long as they can win said fight...
pevergreen
05-04-2007, 07:58
Chen shall fight!
Warluster
05-04-2007, 08:10
Also, don't publicly reveal your fighting scroe, as the mafia will probably go for you.
b) I believe i've got the highest kung-fu score of the townies
Winning against Andres proves nothing. :beam:
Besides, the mafia not doing the killing next night would take the opertunity to 'up' their skills.
You are not in the clear my friend.. and I guess neither am I.
I challenged disco because I wanted to see what the duelling would reveal.
Disco is obviously a weaker townie (his style beats mine, yet he lost).
I guess we could clear guilt by this duelling too.
I challenged TheStranger because, well, because he is TheStranger :laugh4:
And we have to be careful with who to trust.
If we agree that mafia started with high stats, maybe it's a better plan to train townies with low scores (=townies who are most likely to be innocent) during the night and to let them gain Kung Fu levels by duelling even weaker townies during the day.
I volunteer to either a) be the punching bag :laugh4: b) become teh master through long and intense training+duelling
CountArach
05-04-2007, 09:54
Summary from post 111 onwards
Everythign I don’t cover is just noise
111 – Sasaki posts kills of Dutch_Guy and ChuggtheSquirrel. Can’t really draw conclusions from this IMO, so I won’t try.
112 – BA votes for Khaan randomly
113 – Twilight questions the fast vote.
114 – pevergreen explains that it is a random vote. Votes Twilightblade for not realising
115 – sapi randomly votes pever.
116 – Warluster complains that random voting will not get us anywhere
117 – Andres votes CR and asks to tell him whether he is innocent or not
118 – A minute later, changes his vote to Warluster for post 116
119 – Warluster asks Andres why he changed his vote.
120 – sapi votes Warluster for “acting suspiciously”
121 – Warluster complains that every time he posts he gets bandwagonned.
122 – Andres unvotes because Warluster is angry, and votes sapi for bandwagoning in post 120.
123 – sapi unvotes Warluster and votes Andres for bandwagoning, as well as challenging him.
124 – pever challenges Twilightblade
126 – Andres says he can’t die, challenges TS
127 – I question Andres saying he can’t die, and vote him
128 – sapi agrees with me, and bandwagons Andres
130 – Andres explains the rules to me about not dying in Challenges, something I overlooked.
133 – Tran randomly votes BZK
136 – Stig votes me for bandwagoning
137 – Andres launches an OMGUS and bandwagon vote on me
139 – HughTower votes for No Lynch, however mentions he would like to bandwagon Andres for fun.
142 – BZK purely and blatantly bandwagons. This is a really suspicious post. FoS: BZK
143 – Redleg votes BZK for wanting items removed form the store.
145 – Stig unvotes me and then votes BZK for bandwagoning. However, he cites no reason other than he was bandwagoning. Well if he thought that I had bandwagonned earlier, how does that make me any less guilty than BZK? Interestingly, he also mentions that Andres always has a lot of posts. I don’t know why he added this in.
150 – My post that unvotes Andres, and votes Stig for bandwagoning.
151 – Stig defends himself by saying that bandwagoning is having no reason. Interestingly, he again mentions that Andres always has a lot of posts. He has already said it once, so shouldn’t have to repeat himself. FoS: Stig
154 – sapi says that he never takes the first round of mafia seriously.
155 – TS abstains
156 – Sigurd points out that the voting period will last until we reach 7 votes, and as such that random votes are a waste of time. He fails to note that all conversation before this has come from either off hand posts or random votes.
157 – Xdeathfire votes Xehh for lurking
158 – sapi says he will never put the lat vote on someone, unless he is sure they are mafia.
161 – Sigurd points out that everyone is changing votes, making it hard to keep the tally. Keep good track people.
162 – sapi unvotes, saying that he is going to sleep (It was 10pm, so he wasn’t lying) and doesn’t want to lynch an innocent.
163 – Andres points out that BZK has been uncharacteristically active, and votes him. He also asks where Ichigo is. Suggests that in order to get someone to talk, we need to get the number of votes – 2. He also defends bandwagoning, saying it is necessary in these games. Interestingly, in post 122, he attacks sapi for bandwaggoning. FoS: Andres
164 – Stig attacks bandwagonning, saying that it is simply “voting for no reason”. He also explains that Ichigo is “on stike”
165 – Andres agrees, saying that some people define it differently
166 – Stig, probably jokingly, asks if he should lynch them.
167 – Tran pitches in that it is a “cheap tactic” for diverting attention and/or suspicion away.
168 – Chugg makes a post, but Ninja-Edits it out
169 – Andres asks why he is apologising
170 – Chugg explains
171 – Khaan votes BZK, asking him to explain the “shop thing”.
172 – BZK says he pointed out that Andres had more posts than usual. He says he happens to have chosen this game to post a lot in, at the expense of other games. He defends the “shop thing” by saying he was joking. He also says he won’t have computer access for the rest of the day
174 – Stig tells BZK that he was not posting as if he were joking, and attacks him saying he can’t access a computer as “cheap”.
175 – HughTower defines bandwagoning as joining a vote simply because there are already votes on someone. Defends BZK by saying that noise before the game is just noise.
176 – Andres points out that since CNII, he has been posting more.
177 – Warmaster arrives, and excuses himself, saying he won’t be active.
178 – UltraWar abstains
179 – Kommodus attacks Tran for several reasons. Primarily his posts. Seems to have a pretty solid argument.
180 – XdeathFire challenges BZK for being “somewhat supicious”
181 – GH votes Ichigo for not joining a Doctor group.
183 – Orb votes and challenges Ichigo. Small FoS: Orb. I would like to hear more.
184 – Omanes votes BZK, presumably because of the Shop thing. However, he offers no explanation.
185 – Doc_Bean abstains
188 – CR votes for Tran, because of Kommodus’ arguments in post 179.
189 – Stig says that Doc_Bean should vote for someone because Abstaining is useless.
190 – DoC_Bean defends his abstain
191 – BA attacks Khaan for not responding to the pressure vote.
192 – Khaan responds quickly and seems to be sort of vague. Doesn’t actually respond. This is sort of scummy. FoS: khan
193 – Andres unvotes BZK and votes CR, simply wanting a yes/no answer as to whether he is innocent or not.
194 – CF points out that no one would come forward and say they are mafia. However, he says it in a way that makes him sound scummy.
196 – Andres attacks CF’s last post
197 – Andres clears things up
198 – BA doesn’t mind Khaan’s lack of response. Possible scum buddys? FoS: BA. Votes for CF, invoking WIFOM on post 194
199 – CF tries to clear things up again
200 – Andres defends CF against BA
201 – Orb votes Tran due to Kommodus’ post from earlier (post 179)
202 – BA unvotes CF.
206 – Ichigo responds to GH by saying that he never was told who to protect. Ichigo then votes Tran for the reasons Kommo stated.
207 – CF comes in with a vote on Tran, agreeing with Kommo at the same time. However, he has had many posts by now, in which to have already decided. Me smells a bandwagon. FoS: CF
208 – Andres posts the bandwagon smilie
210 – Disco asks who he should vote for (Because he is known to follow the smilie)
211 - Ichigo responds by saying Tran
212 – BA votes for Tran, again bandwagoning
213 – Sigurd challenges Disco
214 – GH unvotes Ichigo, votes BZK and challenges Ichigo
215 – Disco puts the 7th vote on Tran
219 – pever FoS’s Disco for putting the 7th vote on Tran
222 – CF points out that BA was bandwagonning Tran in post 212
223, 225 – pever agrees that all people who voted for Tran are suspicious, even though they were following Kommo’s advice
226 – Xdeathfire casts suspicion on disco, Ichigo and BA for voting the last 3 on Tran. However he makes a good point that BA “voted and then unvoted Caius in less than 45min and then quickly jumped onto the tran bandwagon without any stated reason.”
230 – BA defends himself by saying he misread Caius (Which he did), and also that he felt he didn’t need to add to Kommo’s posts.
231 – Tran casts suspicion on only 5 of the people to vote for him.
232 – BA asks why he only cast suspicion on 5 of them
233 – Tran cites the fact that none of them (Except Kommo himself) used any other reason than “Kommo said so”
236 – pever says that we should have let the vote go on, as we did not need to lynch anyone at this point.
238 – pever again says we should talk things out instead of killing someone this early
240 – Ichigo claims that pever is just blaming the people who were the last to vote a person.
241 – CR challenges Ichigo
242 – BZK unvotes Andres and votes Omanes for staying in the background and giving vague hints.
245 – Disco says he just follows the smilie, and as such shouldn’t be seen as guilty.
252 – BA swings things right around and unvotes Tran. Why the change of heart?
253 – Disco Challenges BA
254 - Tran unvotes and votes Disco for being vague.
255 – Gkhaan challenges BA
256 – Tran challenges Disco
258 – Tran is lynched by Sasaki.
265 – Tran is lynched, Ichigo, Disco and Andres are incapacitated
Questions I want answered:
1 – How do you defend yourself BZK? Can you prove your innocence?
2 – Why did Andres flip-flop in post 163?
3 – Why did Stig want to defend Andres so badly in posts 145 and 151? I think Andres is perfectly capable of defending himself.
4 – Khaan – Why did you avoid defending yourself in posts 191 and 192?
5 – By extension, why did you accept his lack of response BlackAxe in post 198?
6 – CF – Why were you so willing to believe Kommo in post 207, when you could have voted Tran before then? Was it bandwagoning?
7 – BlackAxe, why did you have the sudden change of heart in post 252?
I'll do the rest tomorrow
2 – Why did Andres flip-flop in post 163?
3 – Why did Stig want to defend Andres so badly in posts 145 and 151? I think Andres is perfectly capable of defending himself.
2. I "flip-flopped" and defended "bandwagoning" (i.e. "bandwagoning" in its' incorrect definition as voting for someone who already has several votes, but with giving an explanation for the vote, not "bandwagoning" in its' correct definiton as voting for someone who already has several votes without giving a reason) because Sigurd pointed out that this game uses a different voting system than what we are used to. In this 7 votes or majority system, one vote won't pressure a mafioso to defend himself. I'm also inclined to follow pevers advice and to take plenty of time before lynching somebody. Put pressure on a suspect, put 5 votes on him, listen to the defence, discuss if that person needs to get lynched or not. If not, unvote and move the eye of the inquistion to another suspect. The rules don't say anything about a time limit for the day phases.
3. Stig loves me.
3 – Why did Stig want to defend Andres so badly in posts 145 and 151? I think Andres is perfectly capable of defending himself.
Because defending him was part of my attack
Sides I doooooo love him :smitten: :smitten: :smitten:
Twilightblade
05-04-2007, 11:48
Chen shall fight!
Yeah but does it have to be me?
ByzantineKnight
05-04-2007, 11:54
142 – BZK purely and blatantly bandwagons. This is a really suspicious post. FoS: BZK
@142: I wasn't meaning to bandwagon, i logged on the Guild and checked the post count of the thread, wanting to see who has the most posts(sometimes an indication of being a mafia) and i voted accordingly, it was only one vote for a bit of preasure, so dont think that was worth the huge bandwagon that started against me.
1 – How do you defend yourself BZK? Can you prove your innocence
Unless I can post my role PM, no... But that wouldn't help much cuz I'm a townie, since Sasaki already posted it, I can't decisivly claim...
I have a group of people who might want to vouch for me, but one or two of them wanted to be anonymous, so i don't know if they want to...
184 – Omanes votes BZK, presumably because of the Shop thing. However, he offers no explanation.
I'd still like your reason for this Omanes. You have been giving vague hints about people this whole game either saying "Or am I being too suspicious" or remaining silent.
ByzantineKnight
The Stranger
05-04-2007, 12:41
Alright, Ichigo, you are officially the King of all Spam, Lord Spamalot. You rule the land of Spamenia, over a people called the Spamese. Happy? Now, please, back to topic!:focus:
Come again...???
I demand an apology
HughTower
05-04-2007, 12:45
I have a group of people who might want to vouch for me, but one or two of them wanted to be anonymous, so i don't know if they want to...
It is standard practice for Mafia operatives to want to remain anonymous. It is generally agreed that it dramatically increases their chances of winning.
On a different note.....
Very, very, impressive work, CountArach - pls accept my cheerleaders.
:cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader:
Of course, you automatically go straight to the top of 'Most Wanted' list for putting in much more work in than a ordinary townie would. :stare:
Well done.
The Stranger
05-04-2007, 13:04
I already know the plot... Im in Sasakis mind... I know the roles... I know the players and the playerhaters... I'm going to win!!!
I have a group of people who might want to vouch for me, but one or two of them wanted to be anonymous, so i don't know if they want to...
How can they vouch for you? What conclusive evidence is there that both you and those "people" are innocent :inquisitive: ?
The Stranger
05-04-2007, 13:07
Andres... please change your name back to the old... This is boring...
TheStranger, your careless spamming might as well be a cover for your dirty mafia activities...
I'd suggest you start making more well thought posts or you might end up lynched...
As for my name: I have to wait for another 60 days or so before I can change it again. What about "AndresTheBoring"?
The Stranger
05-04-2007, 13:26
No! TheCunning... I demand!! My friend, please dont take offense... You know I love you, Belgian!
And I dont spam... i just dont understand one bit of this game... The only mafia I understood was Capo di Tuti Capi
seireikhaan
05-04-2007, 13:39
4 – Khaan – Why did you avoid defending yourself in posts 191 and 192?
I wasn't avoiding it, there was nothing there to defend against. BlackAxe's vote was pretty much a joke vote. We've chatted more than a few times, and he was basically just trying to get a rise out of me. That's why I didn't defend myself, I didn't need to, since the vote itself wasn't serious.
The Stranger
05-04-2007, 13:44
:O Mafia tactics... acting like they suspect each other... I'm on to you!!
ChuggtheSquirrel
05-04-2007, 15:11
This may be kinda creepy coming from the grave, but... :laugh4:
@ Sasaki: Do people wanting to kill me send in Chugg, and you write my in-game name, or do they have to know it?
ByzantineKnight
05-04-2007, 15:30
It is standard practice for Mafia operatives to want to remain anonymous. It is generally agreed that it dramatically increases their chances of winning.
They are afraid of Mafia, i trust them...
How can they vouch for you? What conclusive evidence is there that both you and those "people" are innocent :inquisitive: ?
It depends on how many mafia there are, judging from the kills, i'd say there was 2, and i have more people than that...
It depends on how many mafia there are, judging from the kills, i'd say there was 2, and i have more people than that...
The number of kills doesn't say anything. In Kommo's Cosa Nuova II there are 3 mafia but only 2 kills a night...
Do we actually know how many mafia there are?
BlackAxe3001
05-04-2007, 15:33
7 – BlackAxe, why did you have the sudden change of heart in post 252?
pever said we probably shouldn't lynch this early and he had a point and I agreed and decided to reverse it. I also just bandwagoned for no reason, so I figured "why not mix it up a bit?". Anyway, it didn't matter in the end.
5 – By extension, why did you accept his lack of response BlackAxe in post 198?
As for the khaan vote, it was just a random pressure vote to get him to speak up. Besides, it was the first vote, so it's not like I had anything to go on. I unvoted because I do know him (sorta) and his excuse was legit so that's why I accepted it.
I already know the plot... Im in Sasakis mind... I know the roles... I know the players and the playerhaters... I'm going to win!!!
it seems The Stranger is back...
Why you dont reread the rules?
Or are u trying to appear a lost townie when you can have a role
The Stranger
05-04-2007, 18:24
eh what... your post doenst makes the slightest of sense to me in my state...
I'm lost... and A townie... but why rules reread dont man?
BlackAxe3001
05-04-2007, 18:35
Your behavior is suspicious. Speak normal mafioso so that we can better understand your last words before you are thrown off a cliff.
The Stranger
05-04-2007, 18:54
come again...
who the heck are you? :P Yur a mafioso...
Sasaki Kojiro
05-04-2007, 21:08
This may be kinda creepy coming from the grave, but... :laugh4:
@ Sasaki: Do people wanting to kill me send in Chugg, and you write my in-game name, or do they have to know it?
I write the in game name whether they know it or not.
@Sapi, I don't know, my Kung Fu value is pretty damn high, too. I'm happy for a more organised duel system to be put in place. Sasaki, can you add a rule that means people who just got beaten in challenges can't spam? :laugh3: Pleeeeeeeeeeease?
I'll PM a couple of deeper thoughts on this (to Sapi-san).
Edit: in fact, other than attempted use of Kung Fu Values as phallic imagery, I don't have anything that needs be said by PM 'til the next kills are through at least.
@Sapi, I don't know, my Kung Fu value is pretty damn high, too. I'm happy for a more organised duel system to be put in place. Sasaki, can you add a rule that means people who just got beaten in challenges can't spam? :laugh3: Pleeeeeeeeeeease?
I'll PM a couple of deeper thoughts on this (to Sapi-san).
Edit: in fact, other than attempted use of Kung Fu Values as phallic imagery, I don't have anything that needs be said by PM 'til the next kills are through at least.
What do you have a 5? 6?
RoadKill
05-05-2007, 05:09
Is it me or do I find TheStranger's spammingness extrremely suspicious.
CountArach
05-05-2007, 05:51
Perhaps he is just creating noise so that he can hide something.
Though I doubt it, because this is how he usually acts.
Is it me or do I find TheStranger's spammingness extrremely suspicious.
I find it strange that he understands Seamus's game, but not this one.
Also, two days and no update. What gives?
Sasaki Kojiro
05-05-2007, 06:31
Zhang Mui sat on the bottom of the steps leading to the temple's main gate, watching the last of the sunset, thinking of the recent murders. He heard footsteps behind him. He turned around to find himself looking up at a fellow monk, clothed in fine black robes and and a hood masking his face.
"Zhang, I'm in need of your assistance tonight at the shrine. Would you please assist me?" Zhang thought it odd that the monk would have a hood to mask his face, but his caring nature led him to agree to help the man. After all, how would he feel if someone refused him aid when he was in need of it?
They walked to the shrine with the robed monk leading the way. As they entered the shrine, the robed monk spoke. "Zhang, I need you to help me relocate this statue to inside the temple. You're bigger and stronger than me, would you move it while I get the doors?" he said, indicating a rather large bronze statue of Buddha.
Zhang agreed and picked up the heavy statue, moving it inside the temple all 150 metres from where it orininally stood. Once finished, Zhang, panting, asked the robed monk, "Why did you need me to move the statue?"
"Too make sure you were tired out." The robed monk commenced to fight Zhang hand to hand.
The robed monk threw a series of punches at Zhang. Zhang managed to avoid each blow, though he was slowly being backed up until he felt the cold statue behind him. He countered a blow, throwing a punch at the robed monk. The monk leaned backwards and delivered a kick to Zhang's exposed midsection.
The kick knocked the wind out of Zhang, pinning him back against the statue. He tried to regain his composure, but the monk continued the assault. The monk connected on a flurry of punches to Zhang's ribs, each blow wringing pain through Zhang's body, since the statue he was backed against was acting as an anvil to each blow. On the fifth and sixth blows, a distinct cracking sound was heard as Zhang's ribs began cracking under the pressure. Zhang's knees buckled as his vision began to blurr. As Zhang's began losing conciousness, the robed monk took Zhang's head in his hands, and with one clean jerk, snapped his neck, ending his life.
****************
'Tseng Shui'
Tseng turned to see the monk standing in front of him. 'A practice?'
Disco was tired. He refused.
'I insist.'
The blows fell and Disco's pathetic skills showed. Disco turned but he wasnt fast enough and the assasin turned confidently after leaving the dead body of Tseng behind.
*************
Killed (4):
Dutch_guy
ChuggtheSquirrel
Andres
discovery1
Lynched (1):
Tran
Living (34):
Ichigo
Warmaster Horus
pevergreen
Faust|
Xdeathfire
Kommodus
Greaterkhaan
ByzantineKnight
Crazed Rabbit
CountArach
Omanes
Stig
Warluster
Sigurd
Caius
Sapi
BlackAxe
Ignoramus
RoadKill
Redleg
Killfrenzy
Ultrawar
Orb
doc_bean
GH
TwilightBlade
Pannonian
The_Stranger
Xehh
HughTower
Kagemusha
Beefy187
It is now day. 8 to lynch.
Hahaha...disco got owned, salute to mafioso!
Vote:pever for being a :bigcry: :baby:
Can someone tell me where in the game we're up to please?
Can someone tell me where in the game we're up to please?
:huh:
Vote: Xehh II
Extremely suspicious
CountArach
05-05-2007, 08:16
Given Xehh hasn't posted up until this point, I am willing to give him the benefit fo th doubt, but I've got my eye on him.
Posting that 3 posts after the killings and in a game with a summary thread?
No chance!
pevergreen
05-05-2007, 09:42
yeah, it's pretty suspicous.
Andres got killed?
That's quite stupid imo, he's always suspicious later on in the game. Sides now we can fully trust him. Good job mafia.
Vote: Warluster
he seems like the man to do this, not quite into the game, but he also knows enough to kill Andres and Disco
pevergreen
05-05-2007, 11:32
TBH i'd kill disco. He just pisses me off :laugh4:
Waiting until more discussion to vote.
The Stranger
05-05-2007, 12:38
@Ichigo: Maybe because I read the rules... and because I had time to understand it,.... now i miss half of whats going on... and I'm just a loost townie... In seamus game I was a loose townie out of control with connections and evidence to whipe out all of the mafia... aka i had fun :P now... I'm creating fun
I'm dead... Gah! What can I say?
Well, the write-up of my duel made it pretty obious that I was not really a KungFu master...
I guess that's why they decided to kill me with Kung Fu... And that's why the town should be careful with this duelling. It reveals things about our Kung Fu score. If you guys want to create "über-townies", they will need money as well to buy protection against weapons and poison.
Now, I'll ask Sasaki how much I can reveal about what has being said through PM and in the chat. IIRC, there were at least three others in the conversation about my stats, my Kung Fu score and such and about who needed training from who. They knew for sure that I was weak. Two of them are still alive :inquisitive:
You raise a good point there, but it's as much a reason to have regulated combats, where only certain people fight and thus protect the majority of townies from scrutiny, than it is to can my idea...
Oh, and that didn't really say much about your score, imo.
If I had a score of 3 and you of 1, the writeup would probably have been the same as if I'd had a score of 10 and you whatever....
The Stranger
05-05-2007, 13:10
No because when 10 on 1 would totally pwn 2 on 22... I know it!!!
TevashSzat
05-05-2007, 13:43
I have a question for Sasaki here. Do mafia increase their kung fu score when they kill people with kung fu? If so, we can't count on having some uber townies because the mafia will always have more kung fu points being able to attack someone every night
The Stranger
05-05-2007, 13:55
what is the benefit of challeging anyway... i mean... what does the winner get... im trying to understand the rules...
RoadKill
05-05-2007, 13:55
TBH i'd kill disco. He just pisses me off :laugh4:
Waiting until more discussion to vote.
Maybe you did kill him cuz he pisses u off.:inquisitive:
ByzantineKnight
05-05-2007, 14:03
@Sasaki: Can we send in the names of four townies so just incase one of them dies we still can protect?
Let me see:
The only defeated duellist not killed: Ichi, maybe because the mafia weren't given no indication of his ability being particularly weak. Killing Andres is perfectly sensible. He draws suspicion, but he makes good points, too.
ByzantineKnight
05-05-2007, 14:17
Let me see:
The only defeated duellist not killed: Ichi, maybe because the mafia weren't given no indication of his ability being particularly weak. Killing Andres is perfectly sensible. He draws suspicion, but he makes good points, too.
But he can do that while dead...
EDIT: I just realized something, who started the whole chalanging to Kung Fu thing? The Mafia probably used it to judge score, cuz it would probably be easier to kill with Kung Fu...
As BZK said Andres now can only make good points. His death is for the benefit of the town
ByzantineKnight
05-05-2007, 14:44
As BZK said Andres now can only make good points. His death is for the benefit of the town
Being alive would be better...
Being alive would be better...
being alive is always better
but atleast we know who to trust now. If the town wants to organize things we can simply use Andres as a gathering point
The Stranger
05-05-2007, 15:03
eh... are the dead allowed to speak?...
ByzantineKnight
05-05-2007, 15:37
eh... are the dead allowed to speak?...
I'd guess ya...
Pannonian
05-05-2007, 15:51
Been trying to keep away from Mafia games after the glut of a few months ago, so don't expect me to play as intensively as I used to do.
As a thought for this game, why not try reviving the protection teams from Capo? Don't know if players are marked as guilty for the rest of the game after a townie kill, but if we assign the active players roles by lot, and set them to kill or protect volunteers (or randomly assigned victims), we can see if they've really been doing what they say they've been doing.
Dead may not pm, may not discuss anything they ever pm?d or were pm?d,
may not discuss night actions in any way. For example if a living person
says ?X is innocent, I successfully protected him along with deceased
player Y, therefore you should vote Z? and Y comes to the thread and
posts ?I think you should vote for Z?, this is bad. Note that protecting
a player doesn?t confirm their innocence so this would be a bad choice
anyway. If you reveal to a player that you have ?such and such awesome
pro-town role? and you die that night, you can argue against them for in
thread reasons, but make sure you don?t indicate that it has anything to
do with your death. I reserve the right to prohibit someone from posting
entirely if I feel they have too much information.
Unfortunately we can't use the known innocents as the conduit for such matters, as they cannot discuss PMs or night matters in any way. The next best thing is to get someone who doesn't mind doing lots of work to keep track of organising these lots, then keep him under permanent watch. Since there are 4 mafia, I recommend a board of 5 to oversee him. A randomised list of names should be sent every day to those 5+the organiser, and protection teams set up by members posting numbers from that list (1 number each, perhaps 2 if participation is slack). The organiser PMs the relevant members with their orders for the night, with a summary sent to each of the board of 5 (who can check the orders with their lists). The list of protection orders should be published the following day, and we'll see whether or not everyone has been behaving as they should have been.
As the organiser, I suggest CountArach, as he's organised Mafia games in the RTR forums and is thus a sucker for work. On the board of 5, I suggest Kommodus because he's Kommodus. plus any other 4. Trustworthiness shouldn't be an inssue for the board, as they won't be doing anything pro-active, and their outnumbering the Mafia should ensure the Mafia can't form a closed conspiracy.
Feel free to discuss or argue against this idea, or suggest names for the organiser and/or board.
ByzantineKnight
05-05-2007, 15:56
Since there are 4 mafia
How do you know? Vote: Pannonian
Pannonian
05-05-2007, 16:08
How do you know? Vote: Pannonian
Bugger, mixed up what's in the public thread and what's in my PM. Since I'm not allowed to quote PMs, I'll explain in my own words. My special role allows me to see what's going on during the night, or at least part of it. Any others who may have this role will know what I'm talking about. I'm not going into any more details to avoid giving the mafia a convincing alibi, but I'll only offer this argument - look at what I've suggested, and look at it in the light of the game set up by Sasaki. Would my idea help the mafia in any way? Would it help the town? Lynch me if you want, but at least consider my idea.
BlackAxe3001
05-05-2007, 16:13
now i miss half of whats going on... and I'm just a loost townie...
You keep repeating yourself as if we didn't get it the first time. This seems like a cover up. We get it, your "lost". It's not hard to catch up. There are two pages of posts every time I log back on and I'm not lost. You are trying to hard be a townie by pleading ignorance.
Vote: The Stranger
seireikhaan
05-05-2007, 16:15
It might not help the mafia in a strict sense. However, you(a potential mafia) could be inventing a role to take suspicion off of you. Seamus attempted such a maneuver in CNII and it staved off his lynching for several rounds. I'm not going to accuse you of being a mafiosi yet, but you are on my suspicion list.
EDIT: This is response to Pannonian.
ByzantineKnight
05-05-2007, 16:24
@Pannonian: I'm assuming that you have a protection group if you are posting that... if not that was very stupid...
BTW, that doesn't mean there is 4 mafia, but if you are correct, then 2 are doing Kung Fu to find scores, the other two are killing...
Please PM me, and we can have a discussion...
Pannonian
05-05-2007, 16:24
It might not help the mafia in a strict sense. However, you(a potential mafia) could be inventing a role to take suspicion off of you. Seamus attempted such a maneuver in CNII and it staved off his lynching for several rounds. I'm not going to accuse you of being a mafiosi yet, but you are on my suspicion list.
EDIT: This is response to Pannonian.
As I said, it doesn't matter much to me whether I'm alive or not. Just consider my idea from what you know of the game. If the strategy objectively helps the town rather than the mafia, then it wouldn't help me much (if I were indeed mafia) if I had convincingly invented a role.
Pannonian
05-05-2007, 16:26
@Pannonian: I'm assuming that you have a protection group if you are posting that... if not that was very stupid...
BTW, that doesn't mean there is 4 mafia, but if you are correct, then 2 are doing Kung Fu to find scores, the other two are killing...
Please PM me, and we can have a discussion...
If you have specific stuff you want to talk about, then PM me. If not, discuss in public. My preference for public discussion is fairly well known.
ByzantineKnight
05-05-2007, 16:29
If you have specific stuff you want to talk about, then PM me. If not, discuss in public. My preference for public discussion is fairly well known.
I was just gonna tell you about the mafia and their plan...
I wont discuss how i know in the thread, only by PM, but if we start getting mafia, we can make our discussion public...
BTW Unvote:Pannonian
I will be gone for the rest of the night (probably), so i'll talk in the morning...
RoadKill
05-05-2007, 16:45
Vote: Pannonian Your obviously lieing.
The Stranger
05-05-2007, 17:11
Pann: 1
TS: 1
Xerr: 1
Warluster: 1
this tally is not official... so it might not be correct
Omanes Alexandrapolites
05-05-2007, 17:12
I protest his innocence. I can confirm the existence of such a role, his innocence seems to be clearly viable.
BTW, I don't have that role, I just know somebody who has.
The Stranger
05-05-2007, 17:18
eh? Omanes... who u talking about?
Omanes Alexandrapolites
05-05-2007, 17:22
eh? Omanes... who u talking about?I have promised not to reveal to anybody, sorry.
I protest his innocence. I can confirm the existence of such a role, his innocence seems to be clearly viable.
BTW, I don't have that role, I just know somebody who has.
Hmm - I find this particlur stance questionable and the follow-up answer leads me to doubt the stance even more.
Vote: Omanes
Challenge: Pevergreen
When one demonstrates a lack of trust in their fellow townie's, I have no choice but to distrust them.
Pannonian
05-05-2007, 17:28
Statement: no-one entered the shop on night 1. If anyone can refute this, please do so now.
Omanes Alexandrapolites
05-05-2007, 17:34
It's not a distrust in the town Redleg, it's more a distrust of the mafia hiding in the temple. Anybody could be in the group. Are you just taking advantage of my, partially suspicious, statements in anyway you can - like a mafioso?
Pannonian
05-05-2007, 17:37
Also, can pevergreen clearly state what he was doing on night 1? Please give all details, omitting nothing.
The Stranger
05-05-2007, 18:32
oh here we go... Pann's infamous I dont say anything asked instead i ask the entire game to suicide with me
BTW IF ANYONE CHALLENGES ME, MY SUPERIOR KUNG-FU SKILLS WILL CHOP HIM TO LITTLE TINE "I CANT DO STUFF IN NIGHTFASE" PIECES
It's not a distrust in the town Redleg, it's more a distrust of the mafia hiding in the temple. Anybody could be in the group. Are you just taking advantage of my, partially suspicious, statements in anyway you can - like a mafioso?
Tsk Tsk - that is an extremely weak rebuttal. If your statement was suspicious as you yourself have claimed, it is up to you to provide futher explaination to alevate the problem. However it seems you have taken another route.
I am still awaiting an explanation that is better then what you have provided so far.
Pannonian
05-05-2007, 20:01
Going back to my earlier post, did anyone go to the shop on night 1?
The Stranger
05-05-2007, 20:03
boooh...
Pann, Sigurd, when I was working with him, pulled a similar role invention maneouvre to win the game. I, for one, believe you've screwed up somehow in your attempt to look like a helpful townie.
Vote: Pannonian
OK, I'll go and hunt for the vote tally now :wall:.
oh here we go... Pann's infamous I dont say anything asked instead i ask the entire game to suicide with me
BTW IF ANYONE CHALLENGES ME, MY SUPERIOR KUNG-FU SKILLS WILL CHOP HIM TO LITTLE TINE "I CANT DO STUFF IN NIGHTFASE" PIECES
Challenge:The Stranger
Also, Vote:The Stranger
Pleading ignorance......yeah not cool. Scummy.
Pann: 2
TS: 2
Xerr: 1
Warluster: 1
Omanes: 1
seireikhaan
05-05-2007, 21:12
Orb, while I realize you have a point, and I'll admit that I myself was initially suspious of Pannnonian. However, I think he's being legit here. I believe that we're basically waiting for someone to confirm his role right now. If we go off killing everyone who reveals, we're basically handing the mafia the game on a silver platter.
For now: FoS: Orb. You seem a little to eager to kill off someone who revealed. However, I want to wait a little longer to evaluate things before I cast my vote.
Pannonian
05-05-2007, 21:20
I've received a PM from The Stranger that amounts to fishing. I'd like to be persuaded that he is innocent, but I would first like him to explain what he means by knowing who has the role I claim to have...please don't play this game with me (sic), let's come clean and work together?
Vote: The Stranger
Challenge: Killfr3nzy
Reason: Only posted to join, and this'll knock you down if you're mafia. Plus, Ichi's already going to try to dent TS' ego. I could do it far better, but...
GK, I appreciate the argument, but fake reveals are damn common, and I do not want to fall for that.
Xehh II 1 (Sapi)
Warluster 1 (Stig)
TS 3 (Blackaxe, Ichi, TS)
Pannonian 2 (Roadkill, Orb)
Omanes 1 (Redleg)
Redleg challenged Pevergreen
Ichi challenged TS
Orb challenged Killfr3nzy
TS is also being suspicious. But then, he's TS. I expected that. Most of what he did in CDTC revolved around remarkably bad fishing which turned out well enough.
Also, Pannonian is unwilling to reveal his role's specifics. This seems a little odd for someone who risks lynching if he doesn't and can easily get protection if he does.
Pannonian
05-05-2007, 22:12
TS is also being suspicious. But then, he's TS. I expected that. Most of what he did in CDTC revolved around remarkably bad fishing which turned out well enough.
Also, Pannonian is unwilling to reveal his role's specifics. This seems a little odd for someone who risks lynching if he doesn't and can easily get protection if he does.
I've given you some specifics to pursue, namely asking what pevergreen did on night 1, and whether or not anyone used the shop on night 1. What more did you expect by this stage of the game? If I'm loath to give full details of my role, it's because I don't want to reveal the full capabilities and limits of it.
But, as I've said before, my role is unimportant - whether I'm lynched or not doesn't really matter. Have a look at my proposal, discuss whether it would be good or bad for the town irrespective of the individuals involved, then put it into action if the temple decides it's a good idea. Cast your vote, then forget about your suspicions for the moment, and look at the idea objectively.
BlackAxe3001
05-05-2007, 23:01
I may regret this... I bought something from the shop on night one... Now why did you want to know?
Pannonian
05-05-2007, 23:26
I may regret this... I bought something from the shop on night one... Now why did you want to know?
Someone told me no-one entered the shop on night 1. I'd like to hear from anyone else who did, and from pevergreen concerning what he did on night 1, before giving more details. For anyone who wishes to check, I trained on my own on night 1.
If the person who told me (you know who you are) wishes to explain this discrepancy privately, feel free to PM me.
pevergreen
05-05-2007, 23:29
Why do you want to know what i did on Night one?
Killfr3nzy has had a bad, unwalkable injury and has been sick for the last week.
In 2 days time, TB and Killfr3nzu should start posting again.
Pannonian
05-05-2007, 23:36
Why do you want to know what i did on Night one?
Killfr3nzy has had a bad, unwalkable injury and has been sick for the last week.
In 2 days time, TB and Killfr3nzu should start posting again.
I have specific information about what you were doing on night 1, and I want to check if what you say matches up to what I have.
pevergreen
05-05-2007, 23:59
There. You have it now.
Unvote
Vote: Pannonian
4 mafia eh? Well how do you know?
If you have a pro-town role you already revealed it. Help us by telling us the main part of it.
And don't bandwagon ... btw I thought you were going to be inactive, doesn't really look like it does it?
And you want to know from Pever what he does, but you won't reveal yourself. Now don't act like a bad-mafia, atleast put some effort into it.
Pannonian
05-06-2007, 00:03
Pevergreen's explanation matches up with the information I have. I look forward to the duels.
PS. Can the person who told me about the shop PM me with an explanation of why their information differs from what's in the thread?
Also:
Challenge Pannonian
It might cost me my night training, but he will lose his night action if I win
Pannonian
05-06-2007, 00:21
Unvote
Vote: Pannonian
4 mafia eh? Well how do you know?
If you have a pro-town role you already revealed it. Help us by telling us the main part of it.
What more were you expecting by round 2? I gave 2 specific statements or requests, which could be equally specifically confirmed or refuted. I made a specific request of Pevergreen, which he gave me the specific truth about (which would have been hard to falsify, hence my request). Now there is that other specific statement, that no-one entered the shop on night 1, which has been equally specifically refuted by Blackaxe. Now I'd like the person who told me of that to give me an explanation. If I revealed more details about my role earlier, it would have given him an easy explanation. Because I've kept part of my role hidden, explaining the discrepancy becomes trickier if he had made up his information.
And don't bandwagon ... btw I thought you were going to be inactive, doesn't really look like it does it?
And you want to know from Pever what he does, but you won't reveal yourself. Now don't act like a bad-mafia, atleast put some effort into it.
Did you miss the bit where I said what I did on night 1? I trained on my own.
As for my activity - this was why I shied away from Mafia games for a while in the first place - because I can't resist the activity when I'm in a game. When I don't have a clue, I'll read or a while before making a move. But when I'm interested in something, I'll press the point. Check the pattern in all the other long games I've played.
We all know you are either pro town or mafia.
If your mafia you will survive the night
If your pro town you will die
Simple as that. You have nothing to lose, as every sensible mafia would attack you.
Why do you demand a role explanation from TS if you don't fess up yourself.
I now tell you to give an explanation. As you ask them of others.
The more people you will make explane the easier it gets for mafia. Whatever you're doing your not helping the town.
Did you miss the bit where I said what I did on night 1? I trained on my own.
Where did I say anything about asking what you did on the first night. You have a special role and are deadmeat. I just want an explanation, as you seem to want them as well.
Pannonian
05-06-2007, 00:56
We all know you are either pro town or mafia.
If your mafia you will survive the night
If your pro town you will die
Simple as that. You have nothing to lose, as every sensible mafia would attack you.
Why do you demand a role explanation from TS if you don't fess up yourself.
I now tell you to give an explanation. As you ask them of others.
The more people you will make explane the easier it gets for mafia. Whatever you're doing your not helping the town.
Where did I say anything about asking what you did on the first night. You have a special role and are deadmeat. I just want an explanation, as you seem to want them as well.
Point to a post where I fished for role explanations. I asked Pevergreen to reveal his activity on night 1 - I neither asked for his role, nor did I expect it. I even reciprocally told him what I did that night, as an example of the kind of explanation I wanted. He gave an explanation in that format, and it matched what I knew to be true, so I was satisfied. FYI, I still don't know what role he has, if any. I also pointed to a suspicious PM I was sent by The Stranger, which as I said amounted to role fishing. In it, he told me he knew who else had the role I was claiming (I claimed no specific role, just gave the general gist), and asked to to stop playing with him, come clean, and work together. I asked for an explanation of that PM. Note again, I did not ask what role he had, for that would give away information that could be used by mafia (something you're asking of me, curiously enough).
All that is in the public thread, which all can read and check for themselves. Your allegations don't match up to what's publicly visible, and if anyone thinks they have incriminatory PMs from me, feel free to give the details.
If ask Pever what he did this night, and he has a pro-town role he can either reveal it, which is bad, or lie. If he's mafia he will also lie.
What use is it asking for what people did? Apart from helping the mafia making conclusions.
You already gave away that you have a pro-town role (as you knew about 4 mafia, how else would you know). You have nothing to lose and will be killed tonight. Unless your mafia yourself that is.
I vote no lynch(can I do that),I don't have enough information to vote for anyone.
BlackAxe3001
05-06-2007, 01:23
We all know you are either pro town or mafia.
If your mafia you will survive the night
If your pro town you will die
Simple as that. You have nothing to lose, as every sensible mafia would attack you.
Wow, very useful info there... :no:
Why do you demand a role explanation from TS if you don't fess up yourself.
Interesting how you want him to give out info even though TS didn't ask him to do it or has even responded yet for that matter.
I now tell you to give an explanation. As you ask them of others.
The more people you will make explane the easier it gets for mafia. Whatever you're doing your not helping the town.
Ok... you just contradicted yourself there. Smooth move. You want him to give out his info. Ok fine. Now you want others give out info after he does? The more info given out makes it easier for the mafia, yet you still want him to give out his info? :inquisitive: Right...
A question for you Stig:
Why does your attack on Pann seem to be a defense of TS? Is TS not capable of defending himself? Is this because he is mafia and so are you and you are defending him? Just something to think about...
Pannonian
05-06-2007, 01:45
If ask Pever what he did this night, and he has a pro-town role he can either reveal it, which is bad, or lie. If he's mafia he will also lie.
What use is it asking for what people did? Apart from helping the mafia making conclusions.
You already gave away that you have a pro-town role (as you knew about 4 mafia, how else would you know). You have nothing to lose and will be killed tonight. Unless your mafia yourself that is.
How does asking for the information I've asked for help the mafia? I didn't ask for roles, as that would offer alibis for the mafia - the very reason why the townie description is given publicly, but no other role description PMs can be quoted. I asked for the activity of one specific member to be revealed, which he did, privately, to my satisfaction. If Pevergreen wants, he can confirm he said nothing about his role there. I also made another statement, that no-one used the shop on night 1, which I challenged anyone who could to refute. When they did, I didn't ask for details - I didn't want role descriptions which the mafia could use, I only wanted to know if I'd been given false information, and if so, why. You persist in accusing me of wanting to know the roles of other players, which is demonstrably false from what's on public view.
You seem to want to block any systematic uncovering of falsehoods, which Mafia players know are usually covers for mafia activity. May I ask, why?
Unvote: Xehh II
Vote: RoadKill
Challenge: Roadkill
Vote is for the bandwagon; challenge is to lower the chances of Pannonian, who I believe, losing his night action.
Unchallenge, Challenge: XehhII
A mafia strategy is to discourage lynching to give them more time to nail people.
Vote tally:
Roadkill 1 (Sapi)
Warluster 1 (Stig)
TS 3 (Blackaxe, Ichi, TS)
Pannonian 3 (Roadkill, Orb, Stig)
Omanes 1 (Redleg)
Redleg challenged Pevergreen
Ichi challenged TS
Orb challenged XehhII
Stig Challenged Pannonian
Sapi challenged Roadkill
*watching the Pannonian - Stig - The Stranger - pevergreen soap*
sooo... are we doing the challenge correlation?
if not...
Challenge: Ignoramus
One post in this entire thread :no:
tally:
TheStranger 3 (Blackaxe, Ichi, TS)
Pannonian 3 (Roadkill, Orb, Stig)
Roadkill 1 (Sapi)
Warluster 1 (Stig)
Omanes 1 (Redleg)
Redleg challenged pever
Ichigo challenged TheStranger
Orb challenged XehhII
Stig challenged Pannonian
Sapi challenged Roadkill
Sigurd challenged Ignoramus
GeneralHankerchief
05-06-2007, 04:24
I will Vote: No Lynch
Not enough for me and I
Won't be on later
*watching the Pannonian - Stig - The Stranger - pevergreen soap*
sooo... are we doing the challenge correlation?
if not...
Challenge: Ignoramus
One post in this entire thread :no:
tally:
TheStranger 3 (Blackaxe, Ichi, TS)
Pannonian 3 (Roadkill, Orb, Stig)
Roadkill 1 (Sapi)
Warluster 1 (Stig)
Omanes 1 (Redleg)
Redleg challenged pever
Ichigo challenged TheStranger
Orb challenged XehhII
Stig challenged Pannonian
Sapi challenged Roadkill
Sigurd challenged Ignoramus
That strikes you as odd?
RoadKill
05-06-2007, 04:27
Challenge: Sapi As a defence i guess.
ByzantineKnight
05-06-2007, 04:34
Vote:Roadkill
Reason: He started the Chalanging spree without permission from the town...
And the rest of you should stop as well...
EDIT: Redleg started the spree not Roadkill,
Unvote:Roadkill;Vote:Redleg
Vote:Roadkill
Reason: He started the Chalanging spree without permission from the town...
And the rest of you should stop as well...
All the challenges up to Sigurd's are excellent as far as I'm concerned.
RoadKill
05-06-2007, 04:44
Vote:Roadkill
Reason: He started the Chalanging spree without permission from the town...
And the rest of you should stop as well...
EDIT: Redleg started the spree not Roadkill,
Unvote:Roadkill;Vote:Redleg
How dare you mix me up with him.
Challenge: Sapi As a defence i guess.
That is not a defense.
I will look forward to smashing you, should our challenge be called ~;)
TheStranger 3 (Blackaxe, Ichi, TS)
Pannonian 3 (Roadkill, Orb, Stig)
Roadkill 1 (Sapi)
Warluster 1 (Stig)
Omanes 1 (Redleg)
Redleg 1 (ByzKnight)
Redleg challenged pever
Ichigo challenged TheStranger
Orb challenged XehhII
Stig challenged Pannonian
sapi challenged Roadkill
Sigurd challenged Ignoramus
Roadkill challenged sapi
Can players fight multiple duels in a turn?
Since this is based on Sigurd's Holmgang idea, I'd have to say no.
Kommodus
05-06-2007, 05:38
Guys... the mafia tend to love it when all attention is focused on one or two people in the early rounds. This enables them to easily slide by under the radar. CNII was a great example of this.
Everyone's focused on Pannonian and TS, but I think P is legit. I'm not so sure about TS yet, but I'll have to revisit that later.
So why don't we try a different angle? I've noticed something that strikes me as a bit curious.
I touched off a bandwagon on Tran that resulted in his lynching last round. A lot of the people who voted for him simply said they agreed with my logic. Flattering as that may seem, I have good reasons for not responding well to flattery in this game. Mafiosi often like to court the favor of influential players.
Tran logged on after his death and protested his innocence vigorously. It's very possible he was right; in that case my argument would've simply given the mafia an easy chance to bandwagon without attracting suspicion.
Let's consider who voted for Tran:
Kommo
Crazed Rabbit
Orb
Ichigo
Caius
BlackAxe
Discovery1
Discovery1 attracted a lot of immediate suspicion for being the one to put the lynch vote on Tran. I would've expected, therefore, that the mafia would let him live and be lynched. But instead, he was killed. :inquisitive:
Now why would the mafia make that choice? If we believe Tran was mafia, then the people voting for him would look more innocent, especially since BK was one vote away from being lynched. But if we believe Tran was innocent, then the people voting for him are suspect.
By killing disco, the mafia make Tran seem guilty. As an innocent person, disco would certainly not deliberately put the lynch vote on a fellow townie. Therefore, the alibi of those voting for Tran remains intact.
I've reviewed the statements of the above list of players. One in particular stands out to me: BlackAxe3001. I'm not comfortable with his behavior during the last round at all.
First, he puts a pressure vote a GK, then appears upset when he gets no response. When GK does respond, he unvotes, then says this:
Vote: Caius
Reason: Seems like a good tactic for a mafioso to just blatently say he is one, making people think that he isn't. It won't work on me.
But after Caius explains himself and the case against Tran builds, he unvotes and responds to a post by Ichigo thus:
If you insist.
Vote: Tran
He then remains silent while Tran receives the final few votes needed to seal his fate. But then the backlash starts, and he is named in a post by Xdeathfire. He responds this way:
Um... why should I have to say "I agree with all the above on tran". It's pretty obvious that there was a dang good case against him...
This is the first thing that really gets my attention. Was it really "obvious" that there was a "dang good" case against Tran? I built the case, and I certainly wouldn't put it that way.
He then gets rather defensive - in my opinion overly so.
Did you even read the all of the posts? I misread what Caius was saying and then unvoted him. Your suspicious for not reading all the posts and just tossing suspicion on the last people to vote.
It was blatant bandwagon. Kommodus' reasoning was sound, but not solely deserving of a premature lynch.Who would you have lynched then? Also, maybe he is deserving of a lynch, how would you know?
Oh, BTW Sasaki said he wouldn't be on until midnight since he would be driving all day... READ PEOPLE!!!
-Tell me...why random vote is guilty? It's just a way to start the game...
- Why should I say much when obviously there's nothing I really have to say
- What do you really expect? You seems like a mafioso yourself...and like pever said, all the last voters on me are suspicious too, that made the following people very suspicious:
Kommodus
Ichigo
Caius
BlackAxe
Discovery1Why/how are we so suspicious than anyone else who voted? Explain.
But then he renegs and unvotes (too late):
Alright, in the interest of the game, I thought about my vote and really it was not thought out at all and I think that we probably should discuss our bandwagoning just a bit before we go and take out what could be a townie. As far as we know, Ichigo is the mafia because Ichigo = guilty. A little extra discussion doesn't hurt the game any. For now:
Unvote: Tran
This strikes me as a pretty dramatic and poorly explained change of tone after stating that it was "obvious" that there was a "darn good case" against Tran. BlackAxe could have been feeling a little heat as suspicion turned his way and changed his mind to appease suspicious townspeople.
And then disco was killed, making Tran look guilty and BlackAxe (or someone else) innocent as a result.
Finally, what's up with this?
Oh, I forgot to mention that I have a flamethrower for personal defense and Tran gave me command of his legions of Stormtroopers before he died, so good luck killing me you scummy mafia.
That looks scummy to me...
Vote: BlackAxe3001
EDIT: Tally
TheStranger 3 (Blackaxe, Ichi, TS)
Pannonian 3 (Roadkill, Orb, Stig)
Roadkill 1 (Sapi)
Warluster 1 (Stig)
Omanes 1 (Redleg)
Redleg 1 (ByzKnight)
BlackAxe 1 (Kommo)
Kommodus, thanks for reminding me of BlackAxe's unvote.
I knew something was bothering me.
Unvote: Roadkill
Vote: BlackAxe
Guys... the mafia tend to love it when all attention is focused on one or two people in the early rounds. This enables them to easily slide by under the radar. CNII was a great example of this.
Everyone's focused on Pannonian and TS, but I think P is legit. I'm not so sure about TS yet, but I'll have to revisit that later.
So why don't we try a different angle? I've noticed something that strikes me as a bit curious.
I touched off a bandwagon on Tran that resulted in his lynching last round. A lot of the people who voted for him simply said they agreed with my logic. Flattering as that may seem, I have good reasons for not responding well to flattery in this game. Mafiosi often like to court the favor of influential players.
Tran logged on after his death and protested his innocence vigorously. It's very possible he was right; in that case my argument would've simply given the mafia an easy chance to bandwagon without attracting suspicion.
Let's consider who voted for Tran:
Kommo
Crazed Rabbit
Orb
Ichigo
Caius
BlackAxe
Discovery1
Discovery1 attracted a lot of immediate suspicion for being the one to put the lynch vote on Tran. I would've expected, therefore, that the mafia would let him live and be lynched. But instead, he was killed. :inquisitive:
Now why would the mafia make that choice? If we believe Tran was mafia, then the people voting for him would look more innocent, especially since BK was one vote away from being lynched. But if we believe Tran was innocent, then the people voting for him are suspect.
By killing disco, the mafia make Tran seem guilty. As an innocent person, disco would certainly not deliberately put the lynch vote on a fellow townie. Therefore, the alibi of those voting for Tran remains intact.
I've reviewed the statements of the above list of players. One in particular stands out to me: BlackAxe3001. I'm not comfortable with his behavior during the last round at all.
First, he puts a pressure vote a GK, then appears upset when he gets no response. When GK does respond, he unvotes, then says this:
But after Caius explains himself and the case against Tran builds, he unvotes and responds to a post by Ichigo thus:
He then remains silent while Tran receives the final few votes needed to seal his fate. But then the backlash starts, and he is named in a post by Xdeathfire. He responds this way:
This is the first thing that really gets my attention. Was it really "obvious" that there was a "dang good" case against Tran? I built the case, and I certainly wouldn't put it that way.
He then gets rather defensive - in my opinion overly so.
But then he renegs and unvotes (too late):
This strikes me as a pretty dramatic and poorly explained change of tone after stating that it was "obvious" that there was a "darn good case" against Tran. BlackAxe could have been feeling a little heat as suspicion turned his way and changed his mind to appease suspicious townspeople.
And then disco was killed, making Tran look guilty and BlackAxe (or someone else) innocent as a result.
Finally, what's up with this?
That looks scummy to me...
Vote: BlackAxe3001
EDIT: Tally
TheStranger 3 (Blackaxe, Ichi, TS)
Pannonian 3 (Roadkill, Orb, Stig)
Roadkill 1 (Sapi)
Warluster 1 (Stig)
Omanes 1 (Redleg)
Redleg 1 (ByzKnight)
BlackAxe 1 (Kommo)
I'll give someone a donut if they can tell me what's wrong with this post.
I'll give someone a donut if they can tell me what's wrong with this post.
Is that a metaphorical donut? :inquisitive:
The broadening out is good. Kommodus, why do you think Pannonian is legitimate?
discovery1
05-06-2007, 06:19
As an innocent person, disco would certainly not deliberately put the lynch vote on a fellow townie. Therefore, the alibi of those voting for Tran remains intact.
Not true. I would for a fellow innocent if the smilie told me to.
BlackAxe3001
05-06-2007, 06:20
So why don't we try a different angle? I've noticed something that strikes me as a bit curious. No, lets not. Stop right there. End of story.
I've reviewed the statements of the above list of players. One in particular stands out to me: BlackAxe3001. I'm not comfortable with his behavior during the last round at all.
First, he puts a pressure vote a GK, then appears upset when he gets no response.
That's because I know him. So bug off. I have mentioned this already and have provided good reason in previous posts.
But after Caius explains himself and the case against Tran builds, he unvotes and responds to a post by Ichigo thus:
Tran = arch enemy so I voted him. Big deal. So did 6 other people.
He then remains silent while Tran receives the final few votes needed to seal his fate. But then the backlash starts, and he is named in a post by Xdeathfire. He responds this way:
I was at work when all of this was happening and I was bored so I was quite random for awhile, but then I had a crisis came up and I had to go fix it, so I was "silent". It is a forum, not a live chat. People can't post 24/7 non-stop. Ease up a bit.
This is the first thing that really gets my attention. Was it really "obvious" that there was a "dang good" case against Tran? I built the case, and I certainly wouldn't put it that way.
Um, ok. Maybe not worded the best, but for the FIRST LYNCH it was a pretty good case. You are playing this like this is the 15 lynch.
He then gets rather defensive - in my opinion overly so.
I was agitated because it was obvious that I misread Caius post yet people just didn't get it. Also, pever was stating things as fact and they weren't, so I was questioning him, not being defensive. I had nothing to defend. Where you pull this idea from???
But then he renegs and unvotes (too late):
This strikes me as a pretty dramatic and poorly explained change of tone after stating that it was "obvious" that there was a "darn good case" against Tran. BlackAxe could have been feeling a little heat as suspicion turned his way and changed his mind to appease suspicious townspeople.
I wanted to mix it up a bit. Besides, pever mentioned that we shouldn't lynch so fast, so I though that he had a good point and decided to unvote. I was also very tired and couldn't come up with a good reason. It didn't matter in the end anyway.
And then disco was killed, making Tran look guilty and BlackAxe (or someone else) innocent as a result.
This could be anyone, not just me. You are just trying to start a witch hunt.
Finally, what's up with this?
That looks scummy to me...
Tran and I have a running joke about stormtroopers. PM him to confirm this if you want. I also tend to use flamethrowers a lot in irc, hence the flamethrower reference.
/meh
Not true. I would for a fellow innocent if the smilie told me to.
He's on the right track, but no donut for you.
Interesting how you want him to give out info even though TS didn't ask him to do it or has even responded yet for that matter.
What?
Ok... you just contradicted yourself there. Smooth move. You want him to give out his info. Ok fine. Now you want others give out info after he does? The more info given out makes it easier for the mafia, yet you still want him to give out his info? Right...
I want others to give information? Where did I say so? Talk sense man ... or learn English
A question for you Stig:
Why does your attack on Pann seem to be a defense of TS? Is TS not capable of defending himself? Is this because he is mafia and so are you and you are defending him? Just something to think about...
I defend no-one I only attack.
And if you call what I do defending remember this: I also defended Andres who is a clear innocent. But I don't defend anyone, I attack Pan on his hypocracy.
How does asking for the information I've asked for help the mafia?
You asked:
What did you do night 1?
Pever might have replied believing you are totally innocent:
I protected Ichigo
So you know he's a doc, and if you are mafia you know his role.
If Pever does not believe you are totally innocent he will always say he's a normal townie. There's no use in asking what people do, except for the mafia, if they're lucky.
And why did you want to know it anyway?
Kommodus
05-06-2007, 16:55
That's because I know him. So bug off. I have mentioned this already and have provided good reason in previous posts.
...
Tran = arch enemy so I voted him. Big deal. So did 6 other people.
...
I was at work when all of this was happening and I was bored so I was quite random for awhile, but then I had a crisis came up and I had to go fix it, so I was "silent". It is a forum, not a live chat. People can't post 24/7 non-stop. Ease up a bit.
Er... you say you're not being overly defensive, yet you just defended yourself against three points I didn't make. I was just providing background information with those statements.
I didn't find you suspicious because you lodged a pressure vote against GK, or simply because you voted for Tran, or because you were silent for a period of time.
It was a combination of the way in which you voted for Tran, combined with what I perceived as your over-defensiveness. While we're on the subject...
I was agitated because it was obvious that I misread Caius post yet people just didn't get it. Also, pever was stating things as fact and they weren't, so I was questioning him, not being defensive. I had nothing to defend. Where you pull this idea from???
I thought I explained myself clearly. Frankly you did have something to defend - your vote for Tran, which you were taking some heat for. And you rose to the occasion, defending your choice strongly at first before backing down.
Defensive (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/defensive)
This could be anyone, not just me. You are just trying to start a witch hunt.
Why do people respond this way when they get accused in mafia? I could be completely wrong about you, of course, but that doesn't mean I'm "trying to start a witch hunt." Yes, a lot of people voted for Tran, and I examined their posts too - as I will do again. But yours stuck out. I leave the witch-hunting to Sasaki.
Tran and I have a running joke about stormtroopers. PM him to confirm this if you want. I also tend to use flamethrowers a lot in irc, hence the flamethrower reference.
It wasn't the references to flamethrowers and stormtroopers that looked scummy, but rather the "challenge" to the "scummy mafia" that looked scummy - like you were trying a bit too hard to portray yourself as their enemy.
Dead may not pm, may not discuss anything they ever pm’d or were pm’d, may not discuss night actions in any way.
So you cannot use me to privately coordinate actions...
Setting up a network in private, giving away clues about roles, interpreting the game rules creative to keep valuable information private, etc etc is what I did in CN II, with a certain degree of succes. Maybe that's why I got killed :inquisitive: ?
Pannonian, you claimed to have a pro-town role, but you don't want to give any details. Allthough I can understand this very well, you must admit that Stig has a valid point when stating that by revealing the fact that you are pro-town, you became a target for the mafia. Maybe you can share more information with the town to make us decide how to use your abilities? If the town decides to be convinced of your innocence, you can be used as the centre of the coordination of all townies actions, in private as well as in public. Because of the rule quoted above, we need a living confirmed innocent to coordinate in private.
Maybe we can create some sort of voting system for that, like Vote : Trust Pannonian and Vote : Don't trust Pannonian? It might be a bit complicated and it might take a while, but until there aren't 8 votes on a player, the town has all the time in the world to discuss and to decide (which is a huge advantage to be used by the town).
If the town decides to trust Pannonian, a doctor as well as a town protection group should try to help him. And that's the tricky part. Be very carefull on who to trust! The challenge system might have given us clues, but unfortunately, there is no organisation whatsoever. Maybe the town could use a similar system as in Midgard? Like: Vote for Challenge: Andres vs Disco? And discuss about it as well?
And if the town does not decide to trust Pann, maybe the detective (or one of the detectives) can consider to reveal early on to give us the identity of a living confirmed innocent who can coordinate the town's actions. If the town considers a living confirmed innocent who will be protected during the whole game and who can coordinate the town's actions in private and guide in public by giving information he gathered trough the townies network more important than a detective, the detective can reveal the identity of the confirmed innocent (if he's still alive that is)? You guys can vote for that as well...
Ichigo hasn't been posting alot in this game, which is quite unusual for him. And by not posting alot, I mean that he doesn't say much. In the first round he was mainly being annoying, by posting youtube links. This round, he voted pever for being a crybaby :inquisitive:
Challenge:The Stranger
Also, Vote:The Stranger
Pleading ignorance......yeah not cool. Scummy.
First, TheStranger with his continuous spamming is an easy as well as a "safe" target. You won't draw suspicion by voting TheStranger or by building up a case against him. Why voting and challenging him btw? And why did you flatter Kommodus? He doesn't like it.
Sigurd, you are good at these games, very good :bow: . Without you the town would have never lynched Seamus in CN II.
*watching the Pannonian - Stig - The Stranger - pevergreen soap*
sooo... are we doing the challenge correlation?
if not...
Challenge: Ignoramus
One post in this entire thread
tally:
TheStranger 3 (Blackaxe, Ichi, TS)
Pannonian 3 (Roadkill, Orb, Stig)
Roadkill 1 (Sapi)
Warluster 1 (Stig)
Omanes 1 (Redleg)
Redleg challenged pever
Ichigo challenged TheStranger
Orb challenged XehhII
Stig challenged Pannonian
Sapi challenged Roadkill
Sigurd challenged Ignoramus
And that's why I would like you to say more than this not much telling post. Besides, why challenging Ignoramus? It's a well known fact he gets WoG'ed in almost every mafia game he participates in...
I'm also a bit curious about Omanes. You say a role like Pannonian's exists and you claim to know another player to have such a role. Wouldn't that be more a clue in the direction that Pannonian's claim is genuine instead of the other way around? It's perfectly possible to have a game with more than one doctor, detective, vigilante, ... especially in a game with 35 participants. Or is it because you don't want to see a confirmed innocent player who can coordinate in private because he is alive?
Pannonian
05-06-2007, 18:19
Pannonian, you claimed to have a pro-town role, but you don't want to give any details. Allthough I can understand this very well, you must admit that Stig has a valid point when stating that by revealing the fact that you are pro-town, you became a target for the mafia. Maybe you can share more information with the town to make us decide how to use your abilities? If the town decides to be convinced of your innocence, you can be used as the centre of the coordination of all townies actions, in private as well as in public. Because of the rule quoted above, we need a living confirmed innocent to coordinate in private.
I'm not giving details as to the limits of my role, but I'll tell you what I knew about Pevergreen, and why I wanted him specifically to reveal to me what he did on night 1. He trained twilightblade. As you can see, this is a very specific piece of information, which would have been hard to fake. If pever had said that he bought something from the shop, that he trained on his own, or that he was trained by someone, it would have caught him on a specific falsehood immediately, when the action indicates that he and twilightblade have struck up a relationship of some sort, and that he is a powerful fighter (he had to be, to be a trainer). Instead, pever gave me exactly those details, which was why I was satisfied.
OTOH, I was told that no-one entered the shop on night 1, which is refuted by Blackaxe, who said he bought something that night. There may be an explanation, and I would recognise the format of that explanation. But on that, I caught someone out peddling falsehoods. Either that person was lying to cover something up, to pry information from me (it wouldn't be much of a guess that no-one had the money to buy anything on night 1), or Blackaxe didn't go to the shop after all despite his claim. I'm waiting for an explanation from my informant, whom I won't expose as yet - I was a tad heavyhanded with Hughtower in M6, and I recognise that.
On the back of that, I voted for The Stranger, as he'd sent me a PM which was plainly trying to coax information from me, without offering anything corroborable in return. Again, I invited him to explain that PM so I can move my vote elsewhere, but again, he hasn't replied.
As for other suspects - since I'm going to be a target from now on, you can always designate a townie to kill me, just in case the mafia decide to leave me alone, and force the suspects to form a protection group to protect me. It won't work as well as Capo, as the mafia can protect as well as kill, but it will at least stop them from killing. And if the protection fails and I'm killed, well, it means the group contains scum who was off killing that night.
I recall seeing this:
Tran = arch enemy so I voted him
Arch enemy?In mafia games we forget about incidents in past games.
I wont vote at Sigurd because he voted and lynched me in CN2.
So, I think that is a poor excuse to vote.
Vote:BlackAxe
TheStranger 3 (Blackaxe, Ichi, TS)
Pannonian 3 (Roadkill, Orb, Stig)
Warluster 1 (Stig)
Omanes 1 (Redleg)
Redleg 1 (ByzKnight)
BlackAxe 3 (Kommo, Sapi, CF)
TheStranger 3 (Blackaxe, Ichi, TS)
Pannonian 3 (Roadkill, Orb, Stig)
Warluster 1 (Stig)
Omanes 1 (Redleg)
Redleg 1 (ByzKnight)
BlackAxe 3 (Kommo, Sapi, CF)
Stig has two votes in that list.
Ichigo hasn't been posting alot in this game, which is quite unusual for him. And by not posting alot, I mean that he doesn't say much. In the first round he was mainly being annoying, by posting youtube links. This round, he voted pever for being a crybaby :inquisitive:
First, TheStranger with his continuous spamming is an easy as well as a "safe" target. You won't draw suspicion by voting TheStranger or by building up a case against him. Why voting and challenging him btw? And why did you flatter Kommodus? He doesn't like it.
http://patsy.humlab.umu.se/patrik/archives/donut.jpg
:thinking2:
Stig has two votes in that list.
Well, that's obvious
I'm special :bounce:
UltraWar
05-06-2007, 21:47
Hmm...donuts...:yes:
Hmm...donuts...:yes:
Why you arent voting?
Who is suspechous for you?
Say something, or I will be forced to think you are hiding something
Why you arent voting?
Not playing
Not playing
LOL, he is playing
Ok, Pannonian first suggests a complex mafia-hunting system, but says he won't be participating intensely. Well, how can he go wrong with that suggestion? He gains trust and risks nothing.
However, he says that there are four mafia, as if all the players knew this to be a fact. Let's face it, this slip up is only reason you have been halfway forthcoming. But that's the problem... halfway forthcoming. You claim that pevergreen's PM confirmed your suspicions... honestly, what good is that to us? If I trust you in the first place I'd believe you... if I suspect you then you will still be suspicious to me. Again, this is a case of apparent guaranteed gain vs. no risked loss.
Add to this that if you ARE the detective, you are revealing your role after presumably ONE investigation... you must admit this is a deviant behavior. Also add in that you gave faulty info when you claimed that noone had bought anything from the shop. Again, your explanation was basically to say that you have a credible source but that, after you have made this assertion, it turns out that the info was just wrong. Something is not right with this explanation... yet you've made it appear not to be a detractor to yourself.
I'm not willing to give you so much power without a decent explanation. So,
Vote: Pannonian
I'm not sure if I'm ready to lynch you, but you need quite a bit more pressure put on at the moment.
TheStranger 3 (Blackaxe, Ichi, TS)
Pannonian 4 (Roadkill, Orb, Stig, Faust)
Warluster 1 (Stig)
Omanes 1 (Redleg)
Redleg 1 (ByzKnight)
BlackAxe 3 (Kommo, Sapi, CF)
Pannonian
05-06-2007, 22:30
Well, in that case I invite those who trust me, including those to whom I've given the information I have, to switch their votes to me and end this farce. I've given my explanations, offered concrete statements against which information in the public thread could be measured against, and offered numerous methods of corroborating my statements, been as open as I could without prejudicing my aim of flushing out falsehoods. But that's not enough. So, to move the game on, throw me off the cliff please.
Unvote: The Stranger
Vote: Pannonian
TheStranger 2 (Blackaxe, Ichi)
Pannonian 5 (Roadkill, Orb, Stig, Faust, Pannonian)
Omanes 1 (Redleg)
Redleg 1 (ByzKnight)
BlackAxe 3 (Kommo, Sapi, CF)
Well its time to apply some pressure on the those claiming to have information but only provide limited to no information so that the town can begin to narrow down the possible mafia players.
To apply that pressure I will have to change my vote to see if something breaks so that we can either identify an important townie to center upon, with protection groups or to stir the conservation some more so that we all can get a better clue toward whom to steer our efforts on. I am not really comfortable with the conservation so far, its very vague and full of possiblities but no actuall clues.
And then there is Ichigo distractions which lead me to want to lynch him, just to have it stop. But to stir the conservation farther.
unvote; Vote: Pannonian
I want clear information in order to develope possible mafia suspects, which at this time is soley lacking.
TheStranger 3 (Blackaxe, Ichi, TS)
Pannonian 6 (Roadkill, Orb, Stig, Faust, Redleg, Pannonian)
Warluster 1 (Stig)
Redleg 1 (ByzKnight)
BlackAxe 3 (Kommo, Sapi, CF)
However I suspect that many who voted for Pannonian should be added to possible suspects because of the nature of the game. Especially if he actually begins to provide the group with hard information versus bits and pieces.
The question that everyone must ask, which townie can lead the group to victory over the scum, so far I see no one stepping up to take a role, myself included. Until the group decided to mafia hunt - its going to be a crap shoot.
Well, in that case I invite those who trust me, including those to whom I've given the information I have, to switch their votes to me and end this farce. I've given my explanations, offered concrete statements against which information in the public thread could be measured against, and offered numerous methods of corroborating my statements, been as open as I could without prejudicing my aim of flushing out falsehoods. But that's not enough. So, to move the game on, throw me off the cliff please.
Unvote: The Stranger
Vote: Pannonian
TheStranger 2 (Blackaxe, Ichi)
Pannonian 5 (Roadkill, Orb, Stig, Faust, Pannonian)
Omanes 1 (Redleg)
Redleg 1 (ByzKnight)
BlackAxe 3 (Kommo, Sapi, CF)
The problem Pannonian is that you constantly cloud your arguement behind such a stance. Provide me actual information not this type of arguement as a defense. Its a problematic defense because it leaves a cast of suspecion upon yourself because you are not actually answering any thing directly as far as I can see. Hinting toward others having information but not sharing it with the group leaves it open for mafia players to counter your postion very nicely. Which is exactly what is happening right now.
Pannonian
05-06-2007, 22:46
If you want hard information, here's some.
Pevergreen uses white crane style.
Twilightblade uses praying mantis style.
CountArach uses praying mantis style.
HughTower uses praying mantis style.
IIRC this information is not publicly available, but the above can confirm or deny as they wish.
I've given statements which can be concretely corroborated or refuted (the scientific method), but people still accuse me of things which are demonstrably refutable from the public thread. If logic doesn't serve, then I hope Kommodus will save you again.
Right, now we're talking
Now remove that desperate "I want to save my sorry ass by voting for myself"-vote and you've got your first unvote.
Well, in that case I invite those who trust me, including those to whom I've given the information I have, to switch their votes to me and end this farce. I've given my explanations, offered concrete statements against which information in the public thread could be measured against, and offered numerous methods of corroborating my statements, been as open as I could without prejudicing my aim of flushing out falsehoods. But that's not enough. So, to move the game on, throw me off the cliff please.
Unvote: The Stranger
Vote: Pannonian
What you said made sense Pannonian and a living 100 % sure innocent is needed in this game, to coordinate actions in private, since the dead cannot pm.
But voting for yourself is, well, it looks scummy.
Here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1529936&postcount=379) you talked about organising a townies network. A very good proposition, a very useful tool. But also a very dangerous one if infiltrated by the mafia... If one of the 5 "board" members is mafia, the town has a problem. You didn't say you wanted to be the organiser or member of "the board", you named other players for that. Franky, I would have trusted you more if you would have proposed yourself.
Mentioning the fact that there are 4 mafiosi was a non-intended mistake I guess.
Were you re-reading or plannig to edit your post when BZK posted this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1529940&postcount=380), only five minutes after your post?
You probably didn't expect somebody to react this fast, did you? Twelve minutes after BZK, you come up with this:
Bugger, mixed up what's in the public thread and what's in my PM. Since I'm not allowed to quote PMs, I'll explain in my own words. My special role allows me to see what's going on during the night, or at least part of it. Any others who may have this role will know what I'm talking about.
What a weird role this is. But you seem to imply others have this role as well. Omanes said he knows someone who has the same role.
When claiming you may claim role, role name, and explain your function in your own words.
Why don't you tell us your role name and let Omanes' contact confirm this by PM'ing him and maybe three or four other players who can vouch in the thread that the name of the role you give is indeed correct?
So: Pannonian : you post the role name; Omanes' contact pm's several people to confirm this and if at least 4 players post in the thread that you are telling the truth, the town can believe you and the networking can start.
If not, you get lynched.
If you want hard information, here's some.
Pevergreen uses white crane style.
Twilightblade uses praying mantis style.
CountArach uses praying mantis style.
HughTower uses praying mantis style.
IIRC this information is not publicly available, but the above can confirm or deny as they wish.
I've given statements which can be concretely corroborated or refuted (the scientific method), but people still accuse me of things which are demonstrably refutable from the public thread. If logic doesn't serve, then I hope Kommodus will save you again.
Interesting. Can they confirm this is true?
If you want hard information, here's some.
Pevergreen uses white crane style.
Twilightblade uses praying mantis style.
CountArach uses praying mantis style.
HughTower uses praying mantis style.
IIRC this information is not publicly available, but the above can confirm or deny as they wish.
I've given statements which can be concretely corroborated or refuted (the scientific method), but people still accuse me of things which are demonstrably refutable from the public thread. If logic doesn't serve, then I hope Kommodus will save you again.
Again an angry defense does not bode well in figuring out what you know. You have also claimed that you know information that was provided by others to you, but that information is cloudy because you want that individual to actually state the information in game. I learned a valuable lesson in Capo - and that is to distrust such a tactic because it does not focus the group, but distracts the group from what actually is going on.
Knowing the fighting styles would normally equate to information that should not be readily available to a mafia player in my opinion. But I still have not seen an adequate response from you concerning this statement.
For examble who is this reference to.
Someone told me no-one entered the shop on night 1. I'd like to hear from anyone else who did, and from pevergreen concerning what he did on night 1, before giving more details. For anyone who wishes to check, I trained on my own on night 1.
Then I wonder why this little defense state from Omanes which adds him to the same list that I include you in. People who are withholding critical information from the town.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1530000&postcount=390
The key to a town victory is sharing of information, and with the ability to protect each other like this game allows - to protect each other. that requires someone taking a leader role and organizing the townies. I see lots of talk of such a stance by several to include myself - but no real effort to do so.
You made the one of the initial suggestions for just this but you also basically refused to do so. So that leaves you having to share more information to the group so that a leader can step forward and organize the townies.
Unvote: Vote: Omanes still awaiting an adequate detailed explanation of information from him also.
TheStranger 2 (Blackaxe, Ichi)
Pannonian 5 (Roadkill, Orb, Stig, Faust, Pannonian)
Omanes 1 (Redleg)
Redleg 1 (ByzKnight)
BlackAxe 3 (Kommo, Sapi, CF)
I see lots of talk of such a stance by several to include myself - but no real effort to do so.
I would gladly volunteer, but it is not allowed.
The GM is harsh, very harsh.
The dead are not allowed to send nor to receive game related pm's...
So don't even bother to send pm's to me. It might get you WoG'ed...
TevashSzat
05-06-2007, 23:08
Well, given from what I have read over these fast posts, I do not think that Pannonian is guilty simply because I don't think mafia would risk being wrong through the fighting style and also, a mafia wouldn't be as quick to put up a vigourous defence. I will instead Vote: Xehh because he is continuing to lurk and has only made one post for no lynch after joining.
TheStranger 2 (Blackaxe, Ichi)
Pannonian 5 (Roadkill, Orb, Stig, Faust, Pannonian)
Omanes 1 (Redleg)
Redleg 1 (ByzKnight)
BlackAxe 3 (Kommo, Sapi, CF)
Xehh 1 (Xdeahfire)
Btw, I am taking AP exams this coming week and the next so I will probably not be very active for around one and a half week since I have to cram for the tests.
Pannonian
05-06-2007, 23:08
What you said made sense Pannonian and a living 100 % sure innocent is needed in this game, to coordinate actions in private, since the dead cannot pm.
But voting for yourself is, well, it looks scummy.
Here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1529936&postcount=379) you talked about organising a townies network. A very good proposition, a very useful tool. But also a very dangerous one if infiltrated by the mafia... If one of the 5 "board" members is mafia, the town has a problem. You didn't say you wanted to be the organiser or member of "the board", you named other players for that. Franky, I would have trusted you more if you would have proposed yourself.
Mentioning the fact that there are 4 mafiosi was a non-intended mistake I guess.
I know there are 4 mafia in the game - it was mentioned in my role PM. That was why I suggested setting up a board of 5 - so that even if all the mafia get on the board, there would still be an extra who could confirm the protection groups were set up appropriately. The system I suggested was meant to circumvent the possibility (probability?) of mafia getting onto the board, by ensuring they couldn't seal the process off entirely, by ensuring that someone would be able to blag if they tried to falsify the process.
Where you re-reading or plannig to edit your post when BZK posted this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1529940&postcount=380), only five minutes after your post?
You probably didn't expect somebody to react this fast, did you? Twelve minutes after BZK, you come up with this:
Erm, what am I supposed to answer in response to that? I gave the entire explanation of my train of thought - I mixed up what's in the public thread and what's in my PM. Once I realised this was so, I came clean and revealed.
What a weird role this is. But you seem to imply others have this role as well. Omanes said he knows someone who has the same role.
Why don't you tell us your role name and let Omanes' contact confirm this by PM'ing him and maybe three or four other players who can vouch in the thread that the name of the role you give is indeed correct?
So: Pannonian : you post the role name; Omanes' contact pm's several people to confirm this and if at least 4 players post in the thread that you are telling the truth, the town can believe you and the networking can start.
If not, you get lynched.
I'm not going to reveal my role name or the extent or limits of my role, as that will allow the mafia to make use of the alibi (which I've already tested against others). I've already prepared for my lynching by giving up all the information I already have to others who might make use of it afterwards. So get voting and get it over with.
I know there are 4 mafia in the game - it was mentioned in my role PM. That was why I suggested setting up a board of 5 - so that even if all the mafia get on the board, there would still be an extra who could confirm the protection groups were set up appropriately. The system I suggested was meant to circumvent the possibility (probability?) of mafia getting onto the board, by ensuring they couldn't seal the process off entirely, by ensuring that someone would be able to blag if they tried to falsify the process.
What if 1 of the 5 board members is mafia? And after the networking is done and all the orders are given, one or two board members die, thus making the system collapse, because dead cannot pm? Meanwhile the mafia board member has alot of useful information...
No?
I'm just trying to say that the town should be very carefull with who to trust.
I'm not going to reveal my role name or the extent or limits of my role, as that will allow the mafia to make use of the alibi (which I've already tested against others).
Alibi? What do you mean? Can you explain to me what you mean by "alibi"? I don't understand what you are trying to say :sorry:
And what's wrong with giving the role name? It's clear you are able to do some sort of investigation to figure out the fighting styles of other players. Another possibility is that you already tried to make some sort of network for training during the night and that those players mentioned by you told you there fighting style.
Bah, sorry Pannonian, you shouldn't be upset by this inquistion, you have asked for it by making the "there are 4 mafiosi" remark. You might as well reveal everything. If you are telling the truth, you'll receive protection during the night and the role can continue to serve the town through the game. It sounds like a very useful and important role, so if you are telling the truth, we cannot afford to lynch you.
pevergreen
05-06-2007, 23:32
If you want hard information, here's some.
Pevergreen uses white crane style.
Twilightblade uses praying mantis style.
CountArach uses praying mantis style.
HughTower uses praying mantis style.
IIRC this information is not publicly available, but the above can confirm or deny as they wish.
I've given statements which can be concretely corroborated or refuted (the scientific method), but people still accuse me of things which are demonstrably refutable from the public thread. If logic doesn't serve, then I hope Kommodus will save you again.
!!!:jawdrop:!!!
When did you get that infomation pannonian?
I can say that is correct for me and Twilightblade.
And i did train him last night. His pitiful score...Mine isnt much better :laugh4:
Edit: Just as a side note, i deleted my role pm to make room for Battle Royale.
Pannonian
05-06-2007, 23:39
What if 1 of the 5 board members is mafia? And after the networking is done and all the orders are given, one or two board members die, thus making the system collapse, because dead cannot pm? Meanwhile the mafia board member has alot of useful information...
No?
I'm just trying to say that the town should be very carefull with who to trust.
Here were the mechanics of what I proposed. Someone, whoever doesn't mind doing the work, randomly sorts the names of the living and sends the list to the board of 5, plus the organiser. People in the public thread then post numbers in that range, which correspond to the individuals in the night action. The organiser gets the names together, sends out PMs to the relevant individuals about what they should do. That's a powerful role prone to abuse. However, there's a board of 5 who were also sent the list of names, and they're able to check the orders that were sent out against the orders that should have been sent, by matching their name lists and the numbers called out in the thread. Any of them can point to discrepancies, if there are any, and publicise them.
Alibi? What do you mean? Can you explain to me what you mean by "alibi"? I don't understand what you are trying to say :sorry:
Claimed roles.
And what's wrong with giving the role name? It's clear you are able to do some sort of investigation to figure out the fighting styles of other players. Another possibility is that you already tried to make some sort of network for training during the night and that those players mentioned by you told you there fighting style.
Bah, sorry Pannonian, you shouldn't be upset by this inquistion, you have asked for it by making the "there are 4 mafiosi" remark. You might as well reveal everything. If you are telling the truth, you'll receive protection during the night and the role can continue to serve the town through the game. It sounds like a very useful and important role, so if you are telling the truth, we cannot afford to lynch you.
I'm as paranoid as the best of them - see my treatment of Hughtower in M6. If I give precise information about my role, including rolename, extent, and limits, the mafia can make their own counter-claim. I was approached by people who claimed townie roles. I didn't believe them, and pressed them for more details. However, they satisfied me that their claims were genuine, when they gave information of a kind that would be difficult to falsify. I'm not prepared to give the mafia any chance to make similar, but false, claims.
I've already given my defence, and all the information I'm prepared to publicly reveal. That information includes stuff which can be specifically refuted. If any of the 4 named martial artists say I'm wrong, you've caught me out on a falsehood, and you can lynch me for that. Or you can do as you're going to, and lynch me anyway. You can ask me for more explanations if you wish, but don't ask for more details about my role, I'm not going to give them.
Vote: Pannonian There seems to be alot against him and he doesn't have that much of a defence, so I change my vote.
And then there is Ichigo distractions which lead me to want to lynch him, just to have it stop. But to stir the conservation farther.
I see no reason to act serious. And even if I did no one would pay attention to anything I'm saying.
That information includes stuff which can be specifically refuted. If any of the 4 named martial artists say I'm wrong, you've caught me out on a falsehood, and you can lynch me for that. Or you can do as you're going to, and lynch me anyway.
Well, pevergreen confirmed your statement. Apparently, he also knew about TB's fighting style, which means two of the four posted results are correct.
You said there are 4 mafiosi, so both CA and HT should confirm as well to be 100 % sure, but I think we can give you the benefit of the doubt for now.
Would you be so kind to unvote yourself my friend?
While we are waiting for HughTower, TwilightBlade and CA to confirm all this(but me, personnally don't think that is strictly necessary, but for the sake of those suffering from paranoia, they definitely should), we can focus on other suspects now.
I do believe it's too late. 8 to lynch.
Vote: Pannonian There seems to be alot against him and he doesn't have that much of a defence, so I change my vote.
Eh, this is what I meant with lazy townies popping up and voting without having read everything. Didn't you see Pannonian revealed information which is not public. Pevergreen confirmed this information and made it clear he never told Pannonian his nor TwilightBlade's fighting style, so Pannonian's claim is probably genuine...
I see no reason to act serious. And even if I did no one would pay attention to anything I'm saying.
If that's your current attitude towards .Org mafia games, why did you bother to sign up?
We didn't listen to you in CN II, true. Frustrating? Hell yes. I can tell from experience: Midgard Saga, remember? Andres is scummy, he is guilty, lynch him, don't listen to him, he is guilty... blah, blah, blah... I got over it. So please, Ichigo, forget the past and enjoy the game.
I do believe it's too late. 8 to lynch.
If the last tally was correct, Pannonian only has 6 votes now.
Pannonian, please unvote yourself.
I do believe it's too late. 8 to lynch.
You need to explain this Ichigo. Why are you attempting to claim a vote of eight for lynching Pannonian when the current vote tally is six? You have committed a very scummy tactic that should get you lynched in my opinion.
Unvote; Vote Ichigo
TheStranger 2 (Blackaxe, Ichi)
Pannonian 6 (Roadkill, Orb, Stig, Faust, Pannonian, Xehh)
Ichigo 1 (Redleg)
Redleg 1 (ByzKnight)
BlackAxe 3 (Kommo, Sapi, CF)
Xehh 1 (Xdeahfire)
RoadKill
05-07-2007, 00:36
Unvote: Pannoina
Need to rethink who to vote.
TevashSzat
05-07-2007, 01:17
Vote: Pannonian There seems to be alot against him and he doesn't have that much of a defence, so I change my vote.
Xehh II is clearly acting very suspicious.
1. He has been lurking for the whole game except when to vote.
2. He bandwagoned on Pannonian even though pevergreen just confirmed that some of what he was saying was correct.
3. He did not try to say anything about me just randomly voting him for lurking.
You need to explain this Ichigo. Why are you attempting to claim a vote of eight for lynching Pannonian when the current vote tally is six? You have committed a very scummy tactic that should get you lynched in my opinion.
Unvote; Vote Ichigo
TheStranger 2 (Blackaxe, Ichi)
Pannonian 6 (Roadkill, Orb, Stig, Faust, Pannonian, Xehh)
Ichigo 1 (Redleg)
Redleg 1 (ByzKnight)
BlackAxe 3 (Kommo, Sapi, CF)
Xehh 1 (Xdeahfire)
I miss counted. Geez freak out.:end:
I miss counted. Geez freak out.:end:
Tsk Tsk an inadequate response. Attempting to counter by saying I over-reacted by asking a simple question and pointing out your error. It seems you are indeed scummy in this game.
Tsk Tsk an inadequate response. Attempting to counter by saying I over-reacted by asking a simple question and pointing out your error. It seems you are indeed scummy in this game.
~:handball: You didn't just ask a question you said:
You need to explain this Ichigo. Why are you attempting to claim a vote of eight for lynching Pannonian when the current vote tally is six? You have committed a very scummy tactic that should get you lynched in my opinion.
Unvote; Vote Ichigo
You said I was scummy and should be lynched. Which, in fact could be just you trying to kill me off because of some small mistake I made.
Challenge: Killfr3nzy
Reason: Only posted to join, and this'll knock you down if you're mafia. Plus, Ichi's already going to try to dent TS' ego. I could do it far better, but...
GK, I appreciate the argument, but fake reveals are damn common, and I do not want to fall for that.
Xehh II 1 (Sapi)
Warluster 1 (Stig)
TS 3 (Blackaxe, Ichi, TS)
Pannonian 2 (Roadkill, Orb)
Omanes 1 (Redleg)
Redleg challenged Pevergreen
Ichi challenged TS
Orb challenged Killfr3nzy
I couldn't find where TS voted for himself, and even if he did Pannonian voted for TS too.
I guess Orb should be lynched too, and everyone else to that used his count using your logic.
~:handball: You didn't just ask a question you said:
Oh yes I did ask a question, now didn't I. Now I did follow it with a statement because of the nature of your tactic, and futhermore it seems you failed to probably read the response. Notice that I stated I pointed out your error. It seems your scummy tactic of not reading the sentence in its entirity is leading you astray. You must be scum in this game.
You said I was scummy and should be lynched. Which, in fact could be just you trying to kill me off because of some small mistake I made.
Oh it wasn't a small mistake since the tally was posted just a few posts above yours, (about 10 posts but on the exact same page as your post.) So either your telling another lie, or your demonstrating that your scum in this game. So the vote remains - your scummy in my opinion until better evidence is presented that demonstrates that you are not. Spamming and then lying about miscounting.
I guess Orb should be lynched too, and everyone else to that used his count using your logic.
Tsk Tsk another weak rebuttal. It seems your attempting a scummy tactic once again. You must indeed be mafia with such a scummy attempt at defending yourself.
Oh yes I did ask a question, now didn't I. Now I did follow it with a statement because of the nature of your tactic, and futhermore it seems you failed to probably read the response. Notice that I stated I pointed out your error. It seems your scummy tactic of not reading the sentence in its entirity is leading you astray. You must be scum in this game.
Oh it wasn't a small mistake since the tally was posted just a few posts above yours, (about 10 posts but on the exact same page as your post.) So either your telling another lie, or your demonstrating that your scum in this game. So the vote remains - your scummy in my opinion until better evidence is presented that demonstrates that you are not. Spamming and then lying about miscounting.
Tsk Tsk another weak rebuttal. It seems your attempting a scummy tactic once again. You must indeed be mafia with such a scummy attempt at defending yourself.
I never said you didn't ask a question.
You didn't just ask a question you said
Actually never mind I won't bother with the rest of your reply.
Unvote:TS, Vote:Redleg
RoadKill
05-07-2007, 02:56
Vote: Redleg
It is not a bandwagon, as what Ichigo says is true. You are thorwing everything u can at Ichigo to get rid of him, even as small of a mistake of making a wrong count. Very suspicious.
BlackAxe3001
05-07-2007, 03:45
Redleg, wtf man? He miscounted and you are freaking out. You said the word scummy like 40 times also for no reason. You are trying WAY to hard to make a case of Ichigo for counting 8 instead of 6. This seems like a noobish mafia tactic imo.
Unvote, Vote; Redleg
BlackAxe3001
05-07-2007, 04:04
Current vote count my my records:
Pannonian: 5 (Orb, Stig, Faust, Pannonian, Xehh II)
No lynch: 1 (GH)
BlackAxe: 3 (Kommo, Sapi, CF)
Xehh II: 1 (Xdeathfire)
Ichigo: 1 (Redleg)
Redleg: 4 (BK, Ichigo, RoadKill, BlackAxe)
Redleg challenges Pevergreen
Ichi challenges TS
Stig challenges Pannonian
Sapi challenges Roadkill
Orb challenges Xehh II
Sigurd Fafnesbane challenges Ignoramus
Roadkill challenges Sapi
I think this is right. Someone else confirm it.
ChuggtheSquirrel
05-07-2007, 04:38
Redleg, wtf man? He miscounted and you are freaking out. You said the word scummy like 40 times also for no reason. You are trying WAY to hard to make a case of Ichigo for counting 8 instead of 6. This seems like a noobish mafia tactic imo.
Unvote, Vote; Redleg
In response to the post: Saying scummy doesn't matter that much, and I'm pretty sure he only said it once, though I could be wrong. You're right about him over-reacting, but you and Road-Kill are bandwagoning, it seems. Why do you keep jumping from person to person that the town doesn't seem to like? :inquisitive: That's mafia-like, right? I agree with Kommo's post that was interrogating you for suspicious behavior, though he could be a mafia trying to take suspicion off himself, by accusing a fellow mafia, then dropping it like it seemed he did, to make it seem like he dropped the case, cause you're reasoning was "ok"; although that might've been him having to go to sleep. Anyway, I don't think you are pro-town.
Chugg
You need to explain this Ichigo. Why are you attempting to claim a vote of eight for lynching Pannonian when the current vote tally is six? You have committed a very scummy tactic that should get you lynched in my opinion.
Unvote; Vote Ichigo
TheStranger 2 (Blackaxe, Ichi)
Pannonian 6 (Roadkill, Orb, Stig, Faust, Pannonian, Xehh)
Ichigo 1 (Redleg)
Redleg 1 (ByzKnight)
BlackAxe 3 (Kommo, Sapi, CF)
Xehh 1 (Xdeahfire)
Tsk Tsk an inadequate response. Attempting to counter by saying I over-reacted by asking a simple question and pointing out your error. It seems you are indeed scummy in this game.
Oh yes I did ask a question, now didn't I. Now I did follow it with a statement because of the nature of your tactic, and futhermore it seems you failed to probably read the response. Notice that I stated I pointed out your error. It seems your scummy tactic of not reading the sentence in its entirity is leading you astray. You must be scum in this game.
Oh it wasn't a small mistake since the tally was posted just a few posts above yours, (about 10 posts but on the exact same page as your post.) So either your telling another lie, or your demonstrating that your scum in this game. So the vote remains - your scummy in my opinion until better evidence is presented that demonstrates that you are not. Spamming and then lying about miscounting.
Tsk Tsk another weak rebuttal. It seems your attempting a scummy tactic once again. You must indeed be mafia with such a scummy attempt at defending yourself.
:sweatdrop:
BlackAxe3001
05-07-2007, 04:48
Oh yes, I love to draw attention to myself. I am an attention whore. Mafia love to be attention whores. Vote blackaxe for changing his mind like 6 other people did because he is not pro-town. Changing your mind is suspicious in every way possible. Oh, don't forget to vote blackaxe. /sarcasm /rant
Redleg also said scummy way more than once. Go read the posts again. It's also more than just saying scummy many times. He is adamant about attacking Ichigo for improper count. I just redid the count and almost everyone had the count wrong one way or another. His continuous attack on Ichigo is unnecessary, yet he keeps at it. This attack was out of the blue and is quite suspicious, more so than The Strangers randomness, and that is why I changed my vote.
ByzantineKnight
05-07-2007, 04:50
Kommodus, thanks for reminding me of BlackAxe's unvote.
I knew something was bothering me.
Unvote: Roadkill
Vote: BlackAxe
This doesnt seem very legit, more like an excuse to bandwagon...
Unvote: Roadkill;Vote: sapi
FoS: BlackAxe, you are acting very suspicious...
And I still dont understand how the whole Redleg bandwagon took off, there doesnt seem to be much thought going into it...
This doesnt seem very legit, more like an excuse to bandwagon...
Unvote: Roadkill;Vote: sapi
FoS: BlackAxe, you are acting very suspicious...
And I still dont understand how the whole Redleg bandwagon took off, there doesnt seem to be much thought going into it...
Hmmm someone hasn't been reading up on there mafia...
BlackAxe3001
05-07-2007, 05:00
FoS: BlackAxe, you are acting very suspicious...
How so? I have provided a good reason for my vote. I don't see how I am acting any more suspicious than anyone else.
Also, three people have voted. I wouldn't call that a bandwagon. Tran had a bandwagon, this is not one.... yet.
Also, your last vote wasn't on RoadKill, it was on Redleg......... ugh...
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1530528&postcount=429
Please people, try to remember who you voted for, or at least check. It takes two minutes. Also post the vote count after you vote... that's also not hard to do.
Vote Count:
Pannonian: 5 (Orb, Stig, Faust, Pannonian, Xehh II)
No lynch: 1 (GH)
BlackAxe: 3 (Kommo, Sapi, CF)
Xehh II: 1 (Xdeathfire)
Ichigo: 1 (Redleg)
Redleg: 3 (Ichigo, RoadKill, BlackAxe)
Sapi: 1 (BK)
Redleg challenges Pevergreen
Ichi challenges TS
Stig challenges Pannonian
Sapi challenges Roadkill
Orb challenges Xehh II
Sigurd Fafnesbane challenges Ignoramus
Roadkill challenges Sapi
pevergreen
05-07-2007, 05:07
:laugh4:
Roadkill:
Vote: Redleg
It is not a bandwagon, as what Ichigo says is true. You are thorwing everything u can at Ichigo to get rid of him, even as small of a mistake of making a wrong count. Very suspicious.
No, he got a bit annoyed at Ichigo. It happens. It is not very suspicious.
Blackaxe:
Redleg, wtf man? He miscounted and you are freaking out. You said the word scummy like 40 times also for no reason. You are trying WAY to hard to make a case of Ichigo for counting 8 instead of 6. This seems like a noobish mafia tactic imo.
Unvote, Vote; Redleg
Redleg is experienced. It is not a mafia tactic at all. Im pegging that to both of you still being pretty new.
ByzantineKnight
05-07-2007, 05:12
Hmmm someone hasn't been reading up on there mafia...
I have been reading... It just doesnt seem like a very strong case...
@BlackAxe: You are jumping around on every vote, i'm keeping count of every vote, chalange, and suspicious post in a Worksheet, my info tells me that you are suspicious, thats why...
BlackAxe3001
05-07-2007, 05:19
Obviously your count is wrong. See my previous post. You can't even keep track of your own votes, let alone everyone else's votes.
You have yet to provide evidence to my so called "suspiciousness" other than this so called "worksheet" that apparently is omniscient and tells you all the info you want to know.
I changed votes once this round, how is that jumping around every other vote since I have only voted twice to begin with?
I want answers and you have yet to provide any that have substance to them.
:laugh4:
Roadkill:
Vote: Redleg
It is not a bandwagon, as what Ichigo says is true. You are thorwing everything u can at Ichigo to get rid of him, even as small of a mistake of making a wrong count. Very suspicious.
No, he got a bit annoyed at Ichigo. It happens. It is not very suspicious.
Blackaxe:
Redleg, wtf man? He miscounted and you are freaking out. You said the word scummy like 40 times also for no reason. You are trying WAY to hard to make a case of Ichigo for counting 8 instead of 6. This seems like -snip- mafia tactic imo.
Unvote, Vote; Redleg
Redleg is experienced. It is not a mafia tactic at all. Im pegging that to both of you still being pretty new.
snip Might wanna cover that up before anyone notices.
ByzantineKnight
05-07-2007, 05:41
Your noobness is showing pever. Might wanna cover that up before anyone notices.
Kinda hard when you are quoting it...
ByzantineKnight
05-07-2007, 05:43
Obviously your count is wrong. See my previous post. You can't even keep track of your own votes, let alone everyone else's votes.
You have yet to provide evidence to my so called "suspiciousness" other than this so called "worksheet" that apparently is omniscient and tells you all the info you want to know.
I changed votes once this round, how is that jumping around every other vote since I have only voted twice to begin with?
I want answers and you have yet to provide any that have substance to them.
I never said it was infalable, thats why i'm waiting for more information before posting...
I am refering to the end of the first round, you started jumping around on every vote that you could.
And I am definatly not ready to submit my worksheet, i still have to follow up on a couple leads.
Kinda hard when you are quoting it...
....
Unvote
Vote: Blackaxe
As BZK said your acting suspicious, what are you hiding? This wasn't your first bandwagon, why vote for poor Redleg, because he uses the word scummy?
scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.