Kingdoms-Teutonic hotseat

[Privateerkev]

Next week is a holiday week in the US so I wouldn't expect things to progress very quickly. I'll play my turn fast but that's just because I am not traveling like a lot of people are.

So, I say we just get done what we can get done and shoot for it picking up once the holiday week is over.

[Privateerkev]

Ok, I know Tristan played his turn because he PM'd me with some developments. But the new save for Doug is not in the uploader yet.

*edit*

Though there has been talk in the KotR OOC thread that there are problems with the uploader

[_Tristan_]

Well, sorry I'm lagging but my situation needs some diplomacy before ending my turn... I hope to have it uploaded tonite, tomorrow at the latest...

Sorry about that... I want to keep the pace up but I don't want to get pwned...

[Privateerkev]

We could try to predict what diplomacy we would have to do on our next turn and just PM each other OOC to confirm ahead of time.

Taking 2 or 3 extra days just to "PM dance" is going to get cumbersome IMHO.

Playing a hotseat turn with auto resolve should take a day or two unless life gets insanely busy. :yes:

In order to keep the game running, I'll skip diplomacy for a turn if it is a choice between finishing my turn, and holding up the game. Plus the in-game diplomacy is just to back up what we establish by PM's anyways.

I agree that diplomacy needs to be agreed on OOC before it is established using the in-game mechanics but I did not realize that people would sit with the savegame and wait for PM's. o_O

[_Tristan_]

I'm not waiting on PMs... I also have a life... And it came knocking while I was playing my turn... So I had to cut it short... And I have not been able to get back to it since... So I took the time to try and play some diplo before playing it again (which will be soon, I promise...)

[Privateerkev]

I also have a life

We have lives?

I pretend I'm a medieval German knight that moves his representation of himself around on a computer game board. Except for working on school 80-120 hours a week, that is how I spend my free time.

Naturally I assume everyone else is in the same sad boat. :bow:

[Zim]

Iny case, havng graduated from college, I spend my time sending out resumes and job applications when I'm not pretending to me a medieval German knight or Russian Grand Duke.

Completely different, right? :clown:


We have lives?

I pretend I'm a medieval German knight that moves his representation of himself around on a computer game board. Except for working on school 80-120 hours a week, that is how I spend my free time.

Naturally I assume everyone else is in the same sad boat. :bow:

[_Tristan_]

Save is up

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-2-2.sav

[Doug-Thompson]

Good deal. I should be able to get to it tonight. Might not, though. I have a life too. ;)

[Doug-Thompson]

2Teutonic-2-3 is up.

[Zim]

:thumbsup: I should be able to play my turn tomorrow.

[Zim]

2Teutonic-2-4 is up! :2thumbsup:

[Ferret]

next save for PK is up:http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-2-5.sav

I have also checked the passwords as PK suggested and they have worked up untill Tristan, but I may have an old password for him (from the previous hotseats) so I'm gonna give him time.

[Privateerkev]

Save for PerfectOne is up. He said something about being AFK until Sunday but if he can get online, here it is:http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-2-6.sav

[PerfectOne]

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-2-7.sav

Should be up.

[Zim]

Has anyone else had trouble contacting MOSH? I sent him a pm a while ago and it's still marked "unread". I'm kind of hoping he can play his turn in the next few days so we can get going again.

[Privateerkev]

Has anyone else had trouble contacting MOSH? I sent him a pm a while ago and it's still marked "unread". I'm kind of hoping he can play his turn in the next few days so we can get going again.

MOSH: Last Activity: 11-24-2007 18:27

Seeing as PO put up the turn on 11-25-2007 23:10, MOSH doesn't even know it's his turn...

:wall:

[Zim]

MOSH: Last Activity: 11-24-2007 18:27

Seeing as PO put up the turn on 11-25-2007 23:10, MOSH doesn't even know it's his turn...

:wall:

I take it we could be waiting a while, then...:sweatdrop:

[Ferret]

He's got untill Saturday morn' till his turn is skipped or played by a 3rd party.

[Shahed]

I can do that turn if you're still missing it tomorrow, if you need it. Although Mongol HA are pretty useless in auto resolve, I'm not doing it for the win just for substituting. If you need me gimme a shout, my MSN & email are also in my profile, in the unlikely event I'm not on the org.

[_Tristan_]

Thx Sinan for the offer...

And thx also for the kind words about the group on the Crusade thread...

[Ferret]

Sinan I'm going to have to take you up on your offer, thanks very much for making it. I will PM you the password and the link is here: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-2-7.sav

[Shahed]

Great. Thanks, will repost when I'm done. BTW are there any rule threads or any other operational details I need to read ?

[_Tristan_]

See the first post of this thread for rules... It is basically simple, no use of exploits and you'll be fine...

[_Tristan_]

Almost wish we can keep you onboard...

Perhaps the only thing you will miss is how MOSH stood diplomaticllay speaking... Maybe the way his forces are stacked will help nonetheless to understand what he was up to...

[Privateerkev]

Almost wish we can keep you onboard.

I second that... :yes:


Perhaps the only thing you will miss is how MOSH stood diplomaticllay speaking... Maybe the way his forces are stacked will help nonetheless to understand what he was up to...

As far as I could tell, the Mongols were still up in the air. No one I talked to in-game really knew what they were up to. They might be some sort of diplomatic "blank slate". Of course people might have had secret deals with MOSH but I don't know about those because... they are secret. :clown:

[_Tristan_]

As far as I could tell, the Mongols were still up in the air. No one I talked to in-game really knew what they were up to. They might be some sort of diplomatic "blank slate". Of course people might have had secret deals with MOSH but I don't know about those because... they are secret. :clown:

Yes, maybe they are even secret for him... That's why he can't disclose them...:yes:

[Privateerkev]

Are you saying the Mongol diplomatic deals are so secret that not even MOSH knows what they are?

:laugh4:

[_Tristan_]

Right on the mark...

Something completely different...

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1765075&postcount=148

Nice to know what is in store for me...

I will have to bear my (black) cross...:knight:

[Privateerkev]

I was quite vague on details and it's nothing you hadn't already figured out. ^_^

[MOSH007]

Mongols are still here
I had so much work lately that i could not manage to play.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-3-1.sav

[Shahed]

https://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/M2TW%20Banners/GH_Banner1.jpg

Greetings All!

Well I worked within the rules. Considering it was my first time in this, I did a lot of thinking, that's what strategy games are supposed to be about right ? Anyway here's the save well within the 48 hour limit (zipped as I did'nt have WINRar installed for whatever reason):

Save is up!: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-3-1.zip

NB: That upload dir is an absolute mess. What a disaster. IMO someone needs to clean that up and file each savegame to it's own new folder dir. This means work ofc.


Almost wish we can keep you onboard...




I second that... :yes:

Thanks, I'd like to stay on, but playing Mongols is not really a lot of fun with Auto Resolve. HAs are pretty useless in autoresolve from what I recall.

Maybe I could join as HRE or Danes. However, I should say that I might have to drop out at a later stage because I may be travelling at the end of the month. I'm not entirely sure what the exact plans will be. Also I would most likely not have time for extensive AARs. If you guys can accept that I may (most likely will) have to drop out, then I'm game for as long as I can play. I would prefer to play a faction which has units that are actually useful in the game.


Right on the mark...

Something completely different...

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1765075&postcount=148

Nice to know what is in store for me...

I will have to bear my (black) cross...:knight:

This should be no surprise. As the most powerful autoresolve faction in the game, it should be expected that you're unlikely to have allies.


Mongols are still here
I had so much work lately that i could not manage to play.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-3-1.sav

Hi MOSH007! Glad to see you back.

You might have missed it but you lost your turn this round. Anyway it's upto the Game Master to apply his decision on which save is used. I have competed the turn the best that I could. I will PM you the details shortly, if my save is used. It's a pity that both of us spent time on this save, this is something to be avoided. I have no objection to your save being used by the way.

Good Luck !

Wish I could say MOUNT UP ! WE RIDE !!!!! .... but I can't...

...Spear Militia FTW !!! pwnj000 sux0rss nubl3ts !!! lulzOMG!!!

:whip: :smash: :smash:

:wall: :wall: :wall:

:oops: :help:

[Privateerkev]

I think we need a ruling from EF so Tristan knows which Mongol save to play off of.

:dizzy2:

[Doug-Thompson]

Greetings, Sinan. We do have to get you into one of these games.

[Ferret]

hmmmm, I've had a good think about this and I think Tristan should use MOSH's save just this once. It is more logical as he is the actual Mongol player however in future the rule will be 48hrs to play your turn or give me a reason why you need longer, then I have 24hrs to find a replacement giving them an extra 48hrs to play it, if I don't find a replacement the turn will be skipped to avoid slowing down the game (I will update the first post to show this). I'm letting MOSH off now as this rule was not made clear earlier and it is not fair to punish someone for something they didn't know. Thank you very much anyway Sinan :) .

[Privateerkev]

we should probably make clear that MOSH's save (and the one we are progressing off of) is this one: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-3-1.sav

MOSH's and Sinan's save names are identical except that Sinan zipped his and MOSH didn't.

[Shahed]

Hey guys ! That's cool, I think that's fair too. MOSH if you want to use the Golden Horde banner for an AAR or sig etc, help yourself, it's freeware.

It was good playing this turn, much more interesting than SP, even without the battles. I think it's kind of hard to blitz actually since the battles can take up a lot of casualties.

[MOSH007]

Hi all,

All this mess because finally the players are active... except me...
Its more than fair that the 48 hour should be the MAX period without justification. As far as I could read Sinan is not only very interested in playing but as well, very welcome and desired in the game.
Since i'am involved in several other hotseat games i accept that Sinan can substitute me definitly (for the cheers of some!!).
I regret any problems i cause concerning the delays, always anoying, and hope we can still engage in future hotseat games.
Welcome SINAN the new KAN of te Mongols. Therefore Use is file.
:shame:

[Shahed]

Hi MOSH007, it's not your fault that you had stuff to do, I'm sure nobody is annoyed, though we do tend to whine! like little girls in pink dresses! (joking!). I just popped in since I thought that would be useful and I wanted to check out a PBM for a while now.

It's really kind of you to offer your spot but remember there's two other spots which are open, HRE & Denmark. I'd much rather take one of those. As I said my own schedule is pretty uncertain so I almost surely be dropping out eventually.

Personally I would'nt want to play Mongols for 3 reasons.

One, because I usually play all cavalry armies and that I cannot do (...my Sultan!) when battles are autocalced. Your turn was like playing a whole new game for me. Their primary strength lies in all cavalry armies hitting slower enemy armies behind the front line, in fact there should be no 'real' front line, if you're playing all cav, you'll be hitting as far as you can ride. This strength is negated because it's a different playing style for autocalc.

Secondly Mongols have King's Purse of -2,500FL/Turn. Combined with a poor economy, basic troops, quite strong neighbours does'nt stack well. If the battles were played online, you have a fair chance being outnumbered and outclassed, but in autocalc you absolutely do not have any chance at all. I would go so far as to say the Mongols are lost without an exceptionally smart and tactful player.

Lastly, The starting generals for the Mongols have no traits whatsoever, almost no stars, and as we know stars matter in autocalc. Considering these hinderances it would be very challenging and no doubt very frustrating game for me to play a game as Mongols, for my first autocalc PBeM in M2:TW.

I've had a look for you guys and Nebuchadnezzar (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/member.php?u=3018) has made a set of fixes for the Teutonic Campaign. This may be useful in a future game, particularly if there is a Danish player.. Teutonic Campaign Bugfixer for Kingdoms (http://www.aurumoz.com/totalwar/M2TW/Kingdoms_TC.zip).

Teutonic Campaign bug fixes by Nebuchadnezzar.
1. Mongol faction now playable with long & short campaign objectives.
2. Mongol leader, heir & generals given basic starting traits.
3. Hochmeister skin now correctly transfers to new faction leaders.
4. Mangonels now recruitable from siegeworks for Teutonic Order.
5. Norway unique units now recruitable by Denmark after Kalmar Union event.
6. Enabled missing unit recruitment for Norway.
7. Missing longboat image added to Norway.
8. Replaced Norway starting Mailed knight at Agder with Svenner as Mailed knights are not a recruitable option for Norway.
9. Corrected Viking raiders double entry recruitment slot for Denmark Fortress.
10. Added missing Viking raiders recruitment pool to Denmark Citadels.
11. Removed drydock/carrack from building browser as this is not a upgradeable option in this campaign.
12. Corrected obsolete script for mercenary rocket launchers. Now recruitable in specific regions after gunpowder event.
13. Corrected Lithuanian astrologer bug where every general/governor would aquire this ancillary.
14. Lithuanian Arquebusiers fire rate corrected to match other arquebusiers.
15. Corrected bug where Sword Brethren did not collect points towards swordsman guild.(compliments to uanime5)

M2TW Bugfixes (transferred to Kingdoms from GC)
1. Fixed broken Apothecary ancillary.
2. Custom armour now triggers correctly with City amourer and upgrades.
3. Marco polo ancillary works correctly for generals only.
4. Corrected bug with all gunpowder event related ancillaries.
5. Fixed problem with Spy guild appearing in almost every AI city.

Minor balances
1. Reduced chance of Drink, Gambling & Girls trait for first level brothel.
2. Reduced incidence of ignorance trait.
3. Harsh judge ancillary occurs only for +2 or more Dread governors & City hall upgrade.
4. Removed Picking On Weak Battle Dread trigger. Prejudiced gameplay while rebels pop up everywhere.
5. Mongol kings_purse altered from -2500 to -500 (compliments to Shaka)

Hope that's useful in some way ! GAME ON !

[_Tristan_]

Hi MOSH,

Don't think I (for one) will be glad to see you go... It was just teasing and taunting on my part (something I can't refrain from doing)...

Plus, I really ( and I mean really) understand that real life can mess up your schedule...

@ EF : So what save should I use ? MOSH/SINAN ? The most advantageous to me of them :devil: ?

[Privateerkev]

MOSH, sorry to see you go. I was slightly annoyed but only because you did not tell us you were taking a week off. PO took a week off as well but he informed us ahead of time. My patience is much larger for people that keep the community informed. But regardless, I know all too well that life gets busy and I hope to see you around in other games when your life calms down a little.

As for which save to take, I don't know. We need a Mongol player. MOSH just quit and handed the faction of to Sinan. But Sinan doesn't want the Mongols. So, do we try to drum up a new Mongol player? Do we skip their turns? In the meantime, do we have Tristan play off of MOSH's save? My guess at the last question would be yes since that's how EF ruled. But we should see how he wants to handle this.

As for the bug-fixer, I hesitate at having mods in MP games. If it's something that everyone needs on their computer, it can cause logistical problems. We have enough trouble coordinating sometimes as it is. Thats just how I feel about it.

[Ferret]

oh damn, I wrote a post earlier but I must have forgot to hit the post button :wall:

ummmm I said something along the lines of HRE and Denmark are taken Sinan, so I don't know where you got that from and then we should see if Sinan would be interested in taking over permanently as it looks like MOSH wants to leave. Tristan can use the save of the future player when that has been decided.

[_Tristan_]

OK, I've got the two saves downloaded...

I put them on hold until EF gives me the go...


@ Sinan : I know that playing the Mongols seems a challenge but sensing a lot of red dots crisscrossing my Teutonic chest is a challenge also...

And most of the pleasure comes from the diplomatic chat with the other players...

[Privateerkev]

Yeah, I have no idea how Sinan thought that the Danes and HRE are actually open. Sinan, a table showing factions and their players is up on the first post of the thread. Norway was the only faction left without a player but the game would have to be restarted and modded to make them player controlled. 6 of the factions are taken by active players. The Mongol player just left so that one is open. Other options are to see if someone else wants to start another game or to start one yourself and get some players.

As for the Mongols, it seems that they were never really meant to be played by a human. They are there for flavor but kept underpowered so they don't take over the whole Baltic like they do in my SP games.

[Shahed]

:inquisitive: Hmm :laugh4: Well I have no idea how I figured HRE and Danes are open. Just had another look at the first thread. I'm gonna pass on this one guys, but hope to catch you in the next one.

If anyone needs me to sub for someone gimme a shout !:2thumbsup:

[Ferret]

well seeing as Sinan isn't going to play ful time Tristan can use MOSH's save as there is a chance he will come back.

[_Tristan_]

Ok,

I played "from" MOSH save

The new save is here

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-3-2.rar

[phonicsmonkey]

hi guys - I was browsing these threads as I am interested in playing a hotseat campaign. if you need someone to step in as the mongols I'd be interested.

I have never played one of these campaigns before so I would need a little help to get started, but let me know if you want me to join in...I don't care if they're in a bad position or whatnot, should be fun regardless

[_Tristan_]

We're waiting on MOSH at the moment to know if he is still in...

Otherwise, Let Elite Ferret know of your offer and he'll surely take you up on it...

Your turn comes last as the Mongols as the 3rd turn has just begun... So it should happen by the end of the week, maybe sooner...

[Ferret]

You are welcome to join PhonicsMonkey if MOSH decides that he will be leaving the game permanently, if he does not then you will be the top of my list of people to ask if someone drops out.

[phonicsmonkey]

ok, thanks, so just drop me a PM if you need me...

[Doug-Thompson]

I should be able to get to get to this tonight.

[Doug-Thompson]

2Teutonic-3-3 is up.

[Zim]

Starting my turn right now. :2thumbsup:

[Zim]

Hey guys, I finished the turn, but when I tried to upload it I got the white screen of death.

While it's possible that something has happened to the uploader in the half hour since I downloaded the save from it, I doubt it. It's probably my crappy dialup service. I have wireless, but it's finicky during the day. If I can get it to work, I'll upload the file, otherwise, I may have to do it tonight. :shame:

Edit: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-3-4.zip up! :thumbsup:

[Ferret]

here is the save for the Danes:http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-3-5.rar

sorry for the delay PK

[Privateerkev]

It's cool. I didn't know that you didn't check for edits or I would have sent something sooner.

I'll get to mine now. :2thumbsup:

[Privateerkev]

Here's the save for PO:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-3-6.zip

[Privateerkev]

While we're waiting for PO to play his turn, it might be a good idea to figure out what were gonna do about the Mongols. Is MOSH still in? Are we going to ask someone to substitute?

[Zim]

MOSH hasn't been online in 6 days. I think he might not be coming back. Maybe we could ask Sinan, since he couldn't get into a game? If he still doesn't want to play the Mongols, we could try Phonicsmonkey?


While we're waiting for PO to play his turn, it might be a good idea to figure out what were gonna do about the Mongols. Is MOSH still in? Are we going to ask someone to substitute?

[Ferret]

If MOSH does not return by his next turn then I am going to ask PhonicsMonkey to take over. Has PO been online recently?

[PerfectOne]

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-3-7.sav

[Privateerkev]

How long are we waiting for MOSH? Does he get another week? 2 days?

[Ferret]

1 more day.

[Privateerkev]

Ok,

He hasn't even been online since he last posted here and told us he was quitting. So, I am assuming he doesn't even know he is still in the game or that it is his turn.

So in one day, PM (phonics monkey) will take the save?

[phonicsmonkey]

Cometh the day, cometh the monkey

[Ferret]

Monkey, the day hath cometh :) feel free to take the save at will.

[phonicsmonkey]

ok, I should be able to get to it tonight

EF, can you pls PM me the password?

[phonicsmonkey]

LOL - I just realised I have to change my location in my profile...

[phonicsmonkey]

teutonics are up next

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-4-1.sav

[_Tristan_]

Got it

[Doug-Thompson]

FYI: My computer's in the shop, but I expect it back today. Had a driver conflict problem with some equipment at home. I'll keep everybody posted if this becomes a problem.

All done. Picking it up this evening.

[_Tristan_]

Should not post before tonite/ tomorrow morning

[_Tristan_]

Save is up for Doug...

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-4-2.rar

[Doug-Thompson]

I should get to it tonight, no problem.

[phonicsmonkey]

hi, I'm moving house this weekend. Doesn't look like it'll get to me in that time anyway, but just wanted to let you know in case it does...

[Doug-Thompson]

2Teutonic-4-3 is up.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-4-3.sav

[PerfectOne]

I'm leaving again for 2 weeks from Dec. 17th to January 2nd. Unfortunately, no game for me during that time. It looks like I should be able to play my turn before I leave if things keep going as fast. However, after that I'm done. If you guys want someone else to play my turn while I'm gone, so be it.

Sorry for any inconvenience. This should be the last vacation I take until August 2008.

[Zim]

Has anyone else noticed that if an army of yours loses a battle, they start the next turn without any move? :furious3:

[Zim]

Ok, EF's up! :2thumbsup:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-4-4.zip

[_Tristan_]

Has anyone else noticed that if an army of yours loses a battle, they start the next turn without any move? :furious3:

Nope, never noticed... Never lost yet...:laugh4:

Seems logical as it is all the same turn... if it was different being defeated would give twice your movement (once retreating and once forward)

[Zim]

Nope, never noticed... Never lost yet...:laugh4:

Seems logical as it is all the same turn... if it was different being defeated would give twice your movement (once retreating and once forward)

It's still annoying. In the normal campaign game, movement would reset before your turn started. Maybe it does for the lucky fellow whose turn is first in the queue, since any battles their forces were in would be in the prior turn (I'm looking at you, Tristan).
Actually, you did lose one. Just ask Hochmeister Gunther how his trek alone east of Riga went. :clown:

Edit: Sorry, that should be OrdenMarshall Maximilian, not the Hochmeister.

[_Tristan_]

It was a risk I had to take to send back your Tvozimir general and his army back from Riga...

Is he still alive ? ...

[Zim]

It was a risk I had to take to send back your Tvozimir general and his army back from Riga...

Is he still alive ? ...

Poor Tvozimir. Yep, he's alive, and none too badly damaged. He went packing back to Riga.

[_Tristan_]

Phew...

I shouldn't tell this but he's one of my major assets in those parts, losing him I think I would lose the north part of my territories...

I don't have the screenshot on this PC but should get it later but the mini-map is turning Order snow-white this winter... Must be the season...:laugh4:

[Zim]

Phew...

I shouldn't tell this but he's one of my major assets in those parts, losing him I think I would lose the north part of my territories...

I don't have the screenshot on this PC but should get it later but the mini-map is turning Order snow-white this winter... Must be the season...:laugh4:

If only he could have died, I think he's the only good general in the region (there's another one, an adoptee I assume, but he doesn't have the command ability of Maximillian).

I still have a surprise or two up my sleeve, but I must admit I'm feeling nervous about this game.

It should be interesting. If you win this war, basically you'll own half the map. :clown:

[_Tristan_]

I still have a surprise or two up my sleeve, but I must admit I'm feeling nervous about this game.


I wouldn't expect anything else from you...



It should be interesting. If you win this war, basically you'll own half the map. :clown:

Frankly, I wonder if I'll be able to survive...(No, really... I'm all edgy...)

You all have led me on a blitzkrieg strategy and some setbacks could ruin everything...

The main casualty of this may be PerfectOne on who I'm letting my anger show at the moment... An innocent victim... But such is war...

[Zim]

No need to worry too much, Tristan. At best, my surprise is one fifth of what went down against EF in teh Crusades game. :clown: In fact, I somewhat expect the surprise to die next turn. :no:

Tsk tsks, picking on the poor guy new to hotseats. ;) You should have made a beeline for Novgorod and taken it out on me. My cities are as big as his, something that can't be said for too many factions.

[_Tristan_]

I know, I'm bad... :devil:

I had hope to gain an alliance with you knowing that Denmark would surely jump on me... or make me jump on him (which I did without remorse... Provocation and all...) so I could hardly have gone for you...

It was the same with Lithuania... I was loath to go at war with Doug, we being the best of enemies in the Crusades HS...

So Poland came next... A matter of circumstance helped me a little and here we are...

[Zim]

I think your not entering as the Order until fairly late really threw off the diplomacy. By the time you sent me anything, I had already made a few agreements that I couldn't in good conscience go back on. Although the Order's strength kind of supports the need for several factions to fight them. Wow.

I'm making it a point next game to pick a faction that's a natural ally of either you or EF, just to shake things up player wise a bit. :clown:

[_Tristan_]

I know that I threw a few people's off on changing factions but you must admit that the game surely feels better like this than just steamrolling an AI-controlled Order...(or maybe not :laugh4:)

[Zim]

Actually, given that you can afford an army that rates twice as powerful as mine on the faction graph, with less well populated settlements, and that I think you beat one of my armies with an unled army half it's size, comprised of the weakest troops of your faction plus two run of the mill Order footmen, I think an AI might still be a challenge in an autoresolved game. :clown:


I know that I threw a few people's off on changing factions but you must admit that the game surely feels better like this than just steamrolling an AI-controlled Order...(or maybe not :laugh4:)

[_Tristan_]

Frankly, with every people going for that AI-controlled Order's throat, it would not have stood a chance...

Having a human player at the controls allows more versatility with some failings for sure but a muc better challenge overall...

Speaking of that victory, I think Maximilian might be responsible for it... Thus his importance...

[Zim]

Maximilian made it from Dunaburg(where the battle took place) to Riga in one turn? I'm impressed. :yes:

All said and done, I do think the campaign overall is fun. 7 factions (not counting Norway) and few natural allies or enemies. It makes for the most interesting start of the Kingdoms campaigns, I think.




Frankly, with every people going for that AI-controlled Order's throat, it would not have stood a chance...

Having a human player at the controls allows more versatility with some failings for sure but a muc better challenge overall...

Speaking of that victory, I think Maximilian might be responsible for it... Thus his importance...

[_Tristan_]

We didn't talk of the same battle...

Dunaburg was freed by the garrison alone... while Maximilian was elsewhere... and he then went to Riga to deal with Tvozimir...

[Zim]

Dunaburg was the one that surprised me. It didn't seem to have much of a garrison. Two Prussian archers, two other weak units, and two Order foot soldiers, versus a 12 unit or so stack with a general. :sweatdrop: Losing that was scary. It shook my already limited confidence in Russian units in autoresolve.

I imagine Maximilian has been moving back and forth between Riga and Pernau, correct?


We didn't talk of the same battle...

Dunaburg was freed by the garrison alone... while Maximilian was elsewhere... and he then went to Riga to deal with Tvozimir...

[_Tristan_]

Dunaburg was the one that surprised me. It didn't seem to have much of a garrison. Two Prussian archers, two other weak units, and two Order foot soldiers, versus a 12 unit or so stack with a general. :sweatdrop: Losing that was scary.

Winning was scary, too. I thought that sallying out would gain you the castle immediately. I left that battle to be the last of my turn... I was so scared to fight it...



I imagine Maximilian has been moving back and forth between Riga and Pernau, correct?

Correct... As can be seen in the stories thread...

[Privateerkev]

The TO's auto-resolve strength is nothing short of frightening.

Can you imagine what would have happened if we waited to fight the Order? It would have been truly impossible...

:dizzy2:

[_Tristan_]

What a band of kittens you all are... :clown:

I've tried a few SP games with the TO with autoresolve and got my @%£%@ handed to me quite a few times... Especially by the Lithuanians...

But I must admit that I have gotten some surprising results...

PK, what a fine pack of wolves you're leading...:clown:

[Privateerkev]

What a band of kittens you all are... :clown:

I've tried a few SP games with the TO with autoresolve and got my @%£%@ handed to me quite a few times... Especially by the Lithuanians...

But I must admit that I have gotten some surprising results...

PK, what a fine pack of wolves you're leading...:clown:

Vikings are no slouches on auto-resolve. And you've been tossing them around with nothing but militia, archers, and clergy. Of course, the knowledge that you have been using one of your best generals helps explain things. But my point still stands. The TO's auto-resolve is nothing short of "awesome". :2thumbsup:

And I am honored that you think I am somehow "leading" this merry band, but you are a little off the mark. The other three factions are much more involved in the fighting so decision making is deferred to those factions that are more at risk. If anything, King Knud is racking his brain on how to become more involved in the war so he can pull his own weight. :yes:

[_Tristan_]

So it is rather a "meeting of minds" kind of thing... :gathering: ~:grouphug: :gossip:

For one result, :damnmate:

[Privateerkev]

Well, everyone had their own reasons for getting involved. Some PM's were sent. And before you knew it, there was an alliance. If anything, you playing the TO solidified the alliance because we were scared to death of fighting you. When the TO was AI controlled, we were kind of lazy about it because we could afford to be. But with you at the helm, we knew that we would need to hit you very hard, very fast, and from every direction. :yes:

You should be proud. Your basically being ganged up on because we are absolutely scared to death of what you can do with such a powerful faction. :2thumbsup:

[_Tristan_]

In fact, it is quite cool but requires long thinking on my part when discovering the save before I commit to any course of action...

Like I said in a previous post, worthy enemies bring out the best in you...

I was quite content at the start to go slow but sensing the threat drawing near I had to find hidden resources to circumvent it...

I think you might have played your hand too early with your blockade... letting me have a sense of (false) safety would have made me let my guard down whereas now I'm purposeful on fighting a nasty fight to its bitter end...

[Privateerkev]

In fact, it is quite cool but requires long thinking on my part when discovering the save before I commit to any course of action...

Like I said in a previous post, worthy enemies bring out the best in you...

I was quite content at the start to go slow but sensing the threat drawing near I had to find hidden resources to circumvent it...

I think you might have played your hand too early with your blockade... letting me have a sense of (false) safety would have made me let my guard down whereas now I'm purposeful on fighting a nasty fight to its bitter end...

IC, King Knud is adamant that it was only a coincidence that the ship ended up where it did. :beam:

OOC, I wanted a way to show my allies that Denmark was in it all the way.

I figured you'd just assume you were going to get ganged up on so I was not confident that I could lure you into a "false sense of security".

And the worthy enemies comment goes both ways. We may be a pack of wolves but it feels like we're trying to pull down an elephant. :yes:

[_Tristan_]

I figured you'd just assume you were going to get ganged up on so I was not confident that I could lure you into a "false sense of security".


Truly, I thought that with a human at the controls some would have second thoughts about taking on the Order and I tried (but too late, it seems now, as alliances seem set in stone...) to turn some of you up against the others...

I am normally a moderate expansionist player in SP but you have turned me into a blitzer in this game :smg:

[Privateerkev]

Truly, I thought that with a human at the controls some would have second thoughts about taking on the Order and I tried (but too late, it seems now, as alliances seem set in stone...) to turn some of you up against the others...

I am normally a moderate expansionist player in SP but you have turned me into a blitzer in this game :smg:

Whats funny is that having a human, and a good one at that, at the controls had the opposite effect. It made us realize that we had to either attack all the way, or not at all. And the "not at all" option was not possible for the Lithuanians due to how the game is set up. So, we had to go "all in".

When the TO was AI controlled, I was actually planning on sitting back and letting Novograd and Lithuania do the "heavy lifting". Knud just wanted to sit back and make money. But when you took over, I knew "neutrality" would not really be an option. So, I figured if I had to get involved, I might as well jump in with both feet.

As for blitzing, that made sense given your financial situation. Though, your main problem is that you can't blitz in all directions at once. So, you leave yourself vulnerable in the opposite end of your blitz. We'll see how long you can defend your "tail". Things are finally heating up and this is turning into my favorite game in the throne room by far. :2thumbsup:

[_Tristan_]

Yes, it is a very good game...

I don't know if I'll be able to go back to SP after...

As to defending my tail, I may have to cut it off at one point to stay alive, but until then, it buys me time to strike elsewhere...

[Privateerkev]

Yes, it is a very good game...

I don't know if I'll be able to go back to SP after...

The more I play these hotseats, the more I get bored playing SP games. It's just not the same anymore... :no:

[Doug-Thompson]

I thought Tristan was making a mistake when he attacked Poland too, but it's turning out to be a great move.

His garrisons in German didn't just stand by, waiting for the war in the north to end. Every unit was put to use.

Proving, once again, that courage is calm, well-informed desperation.

[Ferret]

and he'll soon have help from the West :evil:

[_Tristan_]

I thought Tristan was making a mistake when he attacked Poland too.


I thought I did too...:laugh4:



Proving, once again, that courage is calm, well-informed desperation.

Desperation can lead you through many hard times...:2thumbsup:

[Ferret]

next:http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-4-5.rar

[Privateerkev]

I'm at school right now and I'll get to the save tonight in 9 or 10 hours. :2thumbsup:

[Privateerkev]

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-4-6.zip

Here is the save for PO

[Ferret]

Sinan is going to sub while PO is away. So Sinan can take the save on the 17th, or PO can play it before he leaves.

[Shahed]

Let me know when I'm up.
Actually if I don't see or hear anything by 20:00 Central European Time 17/12/07, I'll use the last save available. Will need the pw.

BTW don't know if I mentioned but I will be afk the weekend of the 21st. So my current committment to this game is from 17th till 21st.

My plans after that weekend aren't solid yet. Have a friend visiting and she may stay for the duration of the holidays, or we may travel together, either way I won't have much time to game then. Also would like to visit my parents, time permitting. Will post back when I've confirmed plans.

Naturally I'd like to stay on till PO's return if possible.

[Ferret]

I'll PM you the password tomorrow.

[Shahed]

Roger that Sir!

[PerfectOne]

Hold the phone on that real quick. I'll play my turn before I leave today (it's only been a day since my turn came up...). After that, Sinan can sub in until Jan. 2nd.

Sound good?

[Shahed]

Hey PO ! Sounds good to me. I can sub till 21st for sure, and if I can after that I'll let you guys know. GAME ON !

[PerfectOne]

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-4-7.sav

[phonicsmonkey]

yo - I just moved house this weekend and I'm supposed to be having the interweb hooked up today

but knowing isps it won't be 'til after xmas :furious3:

I forgot my usb key today so I can't dl the file here at work and take it home, but I'll be sure to bring it in tomorrow...sorry for the delay!

[phonicsmonkey]

bada bing

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-5-1.sav

[_Tristan_]

Got it

[Ferret]

I doubt many will have the time to play over Christmas and New Year so the deadlines won't take place after the 20th till the 4th. If anyone wants to change these then now is the time to ask.

[_Tristan_]

Should be fine with me... I'll be on holidays at home so for once I should have more PC access than normally...

Anyway, I'll wait on you partying, drinking and merry-making...

[Privateerkev]

I'll be around for the holidays so whenever my turn is up, I'll be able to play it.

[Zim]

I'll actually be housesitting for a friend over the holidays who has a much bettter internet connection than I do. I'll be able to play. :yes:

[Privateerkev]

I want to apologize to the whole game for being stupid.

I make no excuses.

I was confused as to who was playing the Polish faction at this time.

PM's have been sent.

sorry...

:embarassed:

[_Tristan_]

Don't need to apologize, I sure wish you have revealed to me your devious plans... :devil:

[Privateerkev]

Yes Tristan, I have just accidently sent you a PM detailing how all other factions are demilitarizing and sending diplomats to make themselves vassals of the Order.

:clown:

[_Tristan_]

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

[Zim]

Hey, the way's things are going that may seem like a good idea soon. :clown:

[Shahed]

ROFLMFAO !

[Ferret]

Nah PK you were just RPing the double spy me and Tristan sent to Poland to obtain information on us :clown:

[Privateerkev]

Hey EF, you going to make an "official" ruling on what "subs" can and can not do?

Can "subs" coordinate with their faction's original allies?

I understand your stance that they shouldn't be allowed to make "new" decisions. But can they maintain the ones they have?

I know you wanted to pass the buck to me but ruling on this is actually your job... :clown:

[Ferret]

Well subs can communicate with the other players of course but don't make any life changing decisions, for the faction that is, their own life is beyond my control :clown:

[_Tristan_]

Your offers of vassalship shall be considered in the order they are submitted....

Grab a ticket and get in line... :yes:

[Privateerkev]

Then what was it that you didn't want Sinan to do? You said he did something wrong and you wanted me to tell him.

You tell him.

Your the GM.

I don't even know what it was that you thought he did wrong.

[Shahed]

He told me not to do any diplomacy, to which I agreed.

[Privateerkev]

Ok, so maintaining and coordinating with current allies is Ok?

And making new allies and enemies is not?

Sounds good to me. Glad that seems to be figured out. :dizzy2:

[Ferret]

Then what was it that you didn't want Sinan to do? You said he did something wrong and you wanted me to tell him.

You tell him.

Your the GM.

I don't even know what it was that you thought he did wrong.

I did? :oops:

I'm tired as well you know, blasted exams again :furious3:

oh and Sinan, stop referring me as allied to Tristan, as it is I'm neutral with him and allied to Denmark, who are at war with the Teutons. :clown:

[Shahed]

Yeah I think what he means is don't change anything that the faction has already agreed on (war, peace etc) but everything else is ok. EDIT: You're not allied with ze other Germans!??!!

[Ferret]

ahh I see this now, I didn't realise that everyone knew that I had been sent the Pm and wanted you to tell Sinan that he shouldn't do what he had just done and I would tell him to try and stay out of politics and pretend I didn't know about all that information. It's all a big misunderstanding.

edit: Sinan-yeah, basically but a short term sub should only send necessary PMs and otherwise just play the game as a neutral player. Just like Econ did in the Grand Campaign hotseat, he didn't send any PMs about the game at all.

[Shahed]

Ok, understood.

[Privateerkev]

This is the PM from EF that confused me:


This is definitely not acceptable, I shall send him a PM saying that a sub just plays the turn and should make no diplomatic declarations whatsoever. I won't let him know about this letter but please tell him yourself that he shouldn't do this or he can't be sub.

That is why I have been trying to force EF to make a "GM" decision using his official "GM" powers.

As for subs, can there at least be coordination? Poland is gonna get creamed if he can't plan with the other allies.

[Shahed]

My view as far as rules are concerned; I don't think a sub can be held responsible for sharing intelligence he has simply by looking at his screen, with his allies. It would be ridiculous to not share this info. Suppose your ally is planning something you are completely aware of, but he can't see as far as you can because you have spies. Obviously you will use your spies to see what you can and pass him the info on enemy formations at that time to assist him in his plans. A sub should behave as if he's playing the turn for the other guy's best interest, and naturally keeping the other guy's allies best interest in mind.

This is what I thought was expected of me but I now realise that being a sub means just moving the pieces on the map, playing ingame and that is all. I don't think this is a reasonable rule if the sub is doing a few turns he may want to communicate with his allies. I'm not in this game for the long run so I'll play by the rules, no problem, no objection at all.

For me the issue is pretty much closed. I have very clear instructions on how to deal with my turn if I am a sub.
I'll keep an eye out if I need to do another turn I'll do it using the guidelines issued by the GM.

Salute !

[Ferret]

PK the decision has been made, you can calm down now.

[Zim]

PK the decision has been made, you can calm down now.

I'm not quite clear what the decision was. I understand that subs shouldn't make deals with other players, and change the faction's diplomatic status, but are they really not supposed to even coordinate with allies they already have against foes already at war with them or scheming to attack them? :no:

[Privateerkev]

PK the decision has been made, you can calm down now.

Oh I'm fine. :2thumbsup:

I was just trying to help people see where the confusion was.

So, Sinan now can not coordinate with us?

:dizzy2:

[Zim]

Bah, our fearlesss leader must have been summoned elsewhere, as he is offline. :clown:

I might as well get it out now. I think it's extremely unfair to not let a sub receive pms from allies, or coordinate a defense. In MP games like this that kind of coordination is the difference between winning and losing. Imagine if Tristan was off a for a week and some new guy played, having little idea of his goals, and unable to know the Order had a secret plan with faction x to assault city y together, or use both their armies to defeat that army bearing down on one of their capitals. Even if the old player gave them some idea of the situation, what about things that come up while the subs playing, like an unexpected attack that made him require help from an ally?

We know OOC (you have admitted in this thread) that the HRE is about to move on Poland. Sinan has little way of knowing it (well, he does now! :beam: ), and left completely to his own, would likely be slaughtered between the two Teutonic behemoths.

If this is the case, you can count me out of the game. :no:

[Doug-Thompson]

If I was taking over Poland right now, I'd consider cutting a deal with the Teuts. Heck, if I was taking over Lithuania right now, I'd consider cutting a deal with the Teuts.

Freedom of action is a good thing. Sinan's obligation is not to any of us. It is to Poland. He's energetically trying to save the country, which is the good and responsible thing to do. That's no criticism of PerfectOne, who's been hammered by the Teutons while the rest of us are still struggling to get there.

If PerfectOne has some guidelines or restrictions he'd like Sinan to follow, that's between PerfectOne and Sinan.

[Shahed]

Well that was my educated guess, that HRE will move on Poland as they are wiping up the remaining rebel settlements, and after that where else will they go. My guess was that in 3-4 turns they'd be in a position to attack (even 2 turns if they move quickly). This is based on the troops are in the immediate vicinity at this time. I could be completely wrong, as I don't know the intent of the players, I'm just guessing from the info available to me ingame. So ofc because I think that a war with HRE is possibly on the cards, obviously I'll let my allies know that this is the situation on this front. I would do the same were I playing any other faction. Personally I understand perfectly that people would want to communicate. By the way PO already told me that HRE is coming, so I judged for myself and I agree with his assesment.

I really don't have any objection to whatever rules are applied, because I'm just subbing for a week. Just thought I'd let you guys know what I thought, if it's any help to you.

[Privateerkev]

Alright, I am confused by two seemingly contradictory statements regarding subs and the PM's they can send/receive.


Well subs can communicate with the other players of course but don't make any life changing decisions, for the faction that is, their own life is beyond my control :clown:


edit: Sinan-yeah, basically but a short term sub should only send necessary PMs and otherwise just play the game as a neutral player. Just like Econ did in the Grand Campaign hotseat, he didn't send any PMs about the game at all.

So which is it? Can Sinan basically play as the Polish player (minus massive changes in strategy) or does he just play as if he is in an SP game?

If he has to be "neutral", doesn't that basically screw over the original Polish player? (not to mention his allies...)

I know you have said you made a ruling on this but I am confused as to what the ruling is. People's turns are coming up soon and we want to get some coordination figured out. But I feel we are log-jammed since we do not know if we are allowed to include the Polish sub in our planning.

On one hand, I'm sorry I even brought the whole subject up. On the other, I'm glad we're getting this figured out since the GM seems to have a different conceptualization of the game than some of the players.

And Doug, I agree Sinan has no obligation to us. The question is whether he can coordinate with us if he wishes to. EF's second quote in this post seems to indicate the answer is no when the first quote seems to indicate the answer is yes.

Since I want to be fair to Tristan, I want to figure out how much coordination with a "sub" is "legal". :yes:

[Doug-Thompson]

Here's a proposed rule: Everybody play the best game they can, whether you're subbing or not.

Tristan's playing a great game. He should be allowed to finish it. If we can turn the tables, it would be an even more amazing game. Either way, we need to move forward.

Edited PS: This note was a reply to Sinan's. PK posted more quickly than I did.

[Doug-Thompson]

And Doug, I agree Sinan has no obligation to us. The question is whether he can coordinate with us if he wishes to.

Well, clearly I think he can.

Has PerfectOne played his turn yet, BTW?


Since I want to be fair to Tristan, I want to figure out how much coordination with a "sub" is "legal". :yes:

The way he's been fighting, it seems to make very little difference whether we're fair to Tristan or not, but I see your point.

[Zim]

PK, I think it depends on what EF considers "neccessary PMs" in that second quote. I would like to think that it would mean short-term strategy with allies, and info-sharing to get him up to speed. I would expect uneccessary PMs are cutting deals not authorized by the original player, like paying the HRE florins to attack the Teutons, or something.

Whether my hopes coincide with EF's definitions, I don't know. :dizzy2:

At any rate, nothing's stopping Tristan from playing the game, although I'll hold out on my turn until we get a response.

[Doug-Thompson]

I'd go on and play, Zim. If I know anything about Tristan, he'd rather get on with it.

[Privateerkev]

Here's a proposed rule: Everybody play the best game they can, whether you're subbing or not.

I think that would be better than forcing a sub to "play dumb". But it is not without it's own problems.

Having factions lurch in one direction and back to another can seriously screw up the balance of the game. While it's fine if a single person decides to make his strategy lurch, something seems unfair to me if the "lurching" is because of multiple people playing the same faction.

I am seriously considering banning "subbing" in any game I ever run. No offense to Sinan at all. But Hotseats have taught me the importance of diplomacy and coordination. Subbing, whether the sub has full leeway, no leeway, or something in-between threatens that diplomacy and coordination.

And this is coming from someone who is a huge proponent of keeping the game pace fast and brisk.

As for what happens here, it's EF's call.

But everyone on all sides has put a TON of work into this game. And I'd hate to see strategies derailed all because someone is out for a few days. :no:

[Zim]

Giving the pace of the game, I have a few more days before my turn, anyway. EF will certainly give us a answer before then. :yes:

[Ferret]

Subs can communicate with oother players of course but I asked Sinan not to change any diplomacy in game or make any important deals (like splitting provinces or secret declarations of war etc) with other factions without PO's consent. Remember a sub is only supposed to be here for one turn or a few at most, Tristan and I will hardly 'cream' Poland that fast. I'll again use the example of Econ playing Ichigo's turn in the M2 hotseat, he did nothing but play a turn, and that is how I envisage a sub. Sinan can act like a normal player for now, untill PO gets back. In the future I'll ask the player that is going to be subebd to leave a brief description of what they planned or would like to happen so that the sub can do what the player was going to do anyway. Of course I am open to other suggestions.

edit: whoops, wrote this a lot of posts back

[Doug-Thompson]

Re: EF's decision in #411.

That seems clear enough: The original player should be able to recognize his country and it's foreign policy when he gets back.

I'd still rather err on the side of freedom of action, but I don't have a problem with this.

[Ferret]

okay cancel that last post, from now on the rule is:

players who are going to be subbed will leave a PM to me (in spoiler tags so I can't see it) / a 3rd party or the sub if we already have one sorted out. Then the sub will play like a normal player but try their utmost to stay with the guidlines left by the permanent player.

[Shahed]

EDIT: note this was posted before I saw EF's post.

Something else I have'nt mentioned so far is I actually have a PM from PO which clearly states 2 actions which he's initiated and he expects to be completed. So I really should be able to carry on from there. It really does'nt make any sense to not share info, and not communicate. It's best really for the sub to play the game the best he can, without modifing the original players strategy. This is exactly what I'm doing, BUT I do see things that I think PO may or may not have seen. In light of the way I see things I'll take my decisions differently, this will always be the case no matter who the sub and who the original player or whatever faction. IMO the sub should be able to communicate freely (no cheating, reloading, exploiting etc.. ofc).

This type of confusion has happened once before actually.

I was playing Hearts of Iron 2: Doomsday as Nazi Germany, I made a very strict set of rules, and within the rules I stated that you can make deals with other players including fully negotiable trade and spheres of influence deals. I made a deal with the Soviet player that I will NOT attack him till a certain date IF he gives me some oil per day, and he deploys his navy in the North Sea, gathering all intelligence on the Royal Navy. I made this agreement public. With the intelligence that I received from him the Luftwaffe annihilated the Royal Navy in 2 months. The the US player started complaining that I got intelligence from the Soviet player. Well duh ??!! You have to expect that people will try to think out of the box and get their stuff done.

Those rules literally took me like 30 hours to develop, I think M2:TW is way too simple for that but anyway here's the rules I made for that game, coz I'm sooooooo proud of them, but also you guys might find them interesting, this is a great game for multiplayer.


HEARTS OF IRON HOUSE RULES

PARTICIPANTS
J - Imperial Japan
Y - Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
S - Germany
V - Republican Spain
D - United States of America
M - United Kingdom

HOST
S

Version: HOI2 Doomsday Version 1.1, NO MOD
Options: Normal difficulty / Aggressive AI

GAME TIME
EVERY Sunday
The first game starts Sunday 16/4/2006 12:00 till 18:00.
We quit 10 minutes before end of game time for savegame distribution between host and participants.

VICTORY CONDITIONS
Axis victory IF Allies, AND Comintern are defeated.
Allies victory IF Axis AND Comintern are defeated.
Comintern victory IF Axis AND Allies are defeated.

SAVEGAMES

Savegames are autosaved ONCE a month on the first of every month, by host.
Savegames will be posted to a network folder at the end of each session by host.
You must download and copy the two savegame files to your following folders at the end of each session:


doomsday/scenarios
doomsday/scenarios/savegames

This is an obligatory workaround to the "decompression error" bug, for all players.

GAME SPEED

Game Speed is Normal and cannot be changed unless ALL players agree to change the speed for a specified duration.
Game speed may be changed to below normal during war if ALL players agree.


PAUSE

25 minute pause on 1/1/36... THINK !
5 minute pause on 2/1/36... TRADE !
5 minute pause on 3/1/36... get a beer !
5 minute pause at autosave at first of every month.
5 minute pause on Declaration of War.
Other than that NO PAUSE.


IRON MAN

Serious, ADULT attitude with major FUN factor is required.
Strategy gamer attitude is required. Think, plan, implement, act, learn. Repeat.
Arcade gaming is not allowed. We got Battlefield 2 for that.
No Exploit usage of any kind.
No Bitching/whining of any kind. You snooze, you lose.
No quitting before END OF GAME.
You can miss ONE session but...
If you miss a session you cannot reload to prior save, you start where the rest of us finished.
If you miss a second session you're... history!
Be on time.


NEW PLAYERS

New players may only join at start of game.
New players may join during the game as minor nations (maximum 40 Industrial Capacity) and only on approval of ALL existing players.
If you join a game you have 6 game months to prove your adherence to IRON MAN (see above).


STARTING CONDITIONS

ONLY Japan may trade on 2/1/36.
ONLY GERMANY and USSR may trade on 3/1/36.
All nations can trade at will, at and after 4/1/36.


DIPLOMACY

No nation is allowed to ally or DOW any of the parties until the Spanish Civil War - victory! event.
No nation is allowed to ally or DOW any of the parties during the Spanish Civil War. SPAIN cannot be invited into alliance until Vichy event fired.
Guarantee independence does not count as DoW.
Non-aggression pacts and peace treaties cannot be cancelled.
Influencing of player nations or of their starting puppets is forbidden.
Couping of player controlled countries and their allies is forbidden.
Players may only join alliance with the same government type.
Trading territory between players is not allowed.
If you have all of your enemy's Victory Points, making peace (e.g. annex, puppeting, settlement) is obligatory on the spot.
If Anschluss, Munich Treaty and End of Czechoslovakia go ahistorical, the game will be reloaded to prior autosave.


JAPAN

JAPAN may not DOW USA before December 7th 1941 or before Pearl Harbor event fires.
JAPAN is not allowed to DOW the Allies (consequently join the Axis as well) before the Arsenal of Democracy event or before January 1, 1940 UNLESS USA is at war.


USSR

USSR is allowed to DOW only on countries with territory demands i.e JAPAN before Molotov-Ribbentop event.
USSR must accept and honor the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact if offered.
The Pact is fully negotiable between the Axis and Comintern Players, and may include trade deals, spheres of influence, duration, etc. Players must honor agreements made this way.
USSR may not offer or accept The Unholy Alliance.
USSR must accept Bitter Peace if offered.
USSR may DOW Germany ONLY after July 1, 1941.


USA

USA is only allowed to join alliance / DOW (if domestic sliders permit) when one of the following conditions is met:
UK has been invaded.
2 key USSR cities are taken (Leningrad, Moscow, Stalingrad).
Any Japanese puppet and/or NATIONALIST CHINA is invaded by USSR.
NETHERLANDS at war with JAPAN.


GERMANY

Must follow Anschluss, Munich Treaty & End of Czech event chain.
May not DoW Allies before September 1st 1939.
May not offer or accept The Unholy Alliance.


MILITARY

Units cannot be strategically redeployed from the frontline if enemy untis are in any neighbouring province.
No more than one Army formation can garrison one province.
No more than 12 divisions may garrison an urban province.
Great powers can station units only on their own territory while at peace.
Land units cannot be disbanded if encircled unless on national territory.
Have to be allied to get military access between human players.
Province improvements (AA guns, radar stations, airfields, ports, land and coastal fortresses, rocket test sites, nuclear reactors) can be built ONLY when at war.
Amphibious invasions must use the Amphibious Assault mission order.


LET THE HOSTILITIES COMMENCE ! GAME ON !!!

[Privateerkev]

The more I think about subbing, the more my thoughts lean towards "coordination" between the orignal player and sub.

I see the sub as the original person's proxy. Ideally, it maybe should be someone the original player picks. Someone he trusts to play the faction the way he would.

I guess I see each player's faction as "theirs". Therefore, I see it as being paramount that the "identity" of the faction remain intact. Whatever that identity is. This helps foster strategy and coordination. Two factors that seem more important to me the more I play these games.

Of course, the GM of a game may disagree with this. The GM probably would see it as his job to keep the game moving along. Therefore, the "identity" of the faction becomes less important than the flow of the game.

These are just my thoughts on "subbing" in general. As to this specific situation, I of course would like to see Sinan as being allowed to coordinate strategy with us if that is what PerfectOne would have done. What PerfectOne wants is between him and Sinan. Put if PerfectOne wants coordination, then I hope that EF allows it.
*edit*

Sorry, I posted this after other people had posted. This had already been ruled on but I was typing this post when those posts went up.

[Zim]

:thumbsup: Good, we're mostly arging over nothing, then. I wouldn't hold a pmless sub as an example just because of its lack of pms, since in different circumstance Ignoramus might have needed him to coordinate with other players (yes, I follow the MP game ~;P ). If Econ did what was best according to Ignormaus' plans and the current situation, then that's why he's a good sub.

:charge: Now I'm done with this "lawfare". It's much more satisfying to sink a sword into my enemy.

[Privateerkev]

Ok, my above post is basically "outdated" but still works as a thought piece. Now that I have caught up on the "flurry" of posts, I am glad this is figured out.

I thank everyone for their patience and input...(especially EF...)

I am satisfied with this ruling and will proceed with the scheming and plotting post haste... :2thumbsup:

[Ferret]

yep, time for the evil axis of heathens to destroy the Teutons and then start dividing up Germany's territory :help:

:clown: Perhaps in future I should team up with someone other than Tristan, he always gets me killed :clown:

[Doug-Thompson]

yep, time for the evil axis of heathens to destroy the Teutons and then start dividing up Germany's territory :help:

:clown: Perhaps in future I should team up with someone other than Tristan, he always gets me killed :clown:


Now, now. You can't blame Tristan for the Crusader game. Blame Zim.:clown:

[Privateerkev]

Now, now. You can't blame Tristan for the Crusader game. Blame Zim.:clown:

and me...

[Zim]

Hey, while I take full responsibility for wiping the POA off of the map(well most of the responsibility, he did help by putting all but one general in a single stack :clown: ), I prefer to blame others for the poor results of the good Allies against the evil Teutonic Axis powers.


Now, now. You can't blame Tristan for the Crusader game. Blame Zim.:clown:

[Doug-Thompson]

Re: And me.

Confession's good for the soul, PK, but not so hot for Constantinople when the Venetians are at sea.

[Shahed]

LOL !

I edited my previous post and formatted everything. There were no rules about subs, except if you miss a turn you lose the turn, if you miss 2 turns you get kicked from the game. This was ofc if no prior notification was provided. You guys should have a look into that game, it's pure strategy, from the makers of EU3. It takes forever though, time runs in days and hours not years.

[Privateerkev]

Re: And me.

Confession's good for the soul, PK, but not so hot for Constantinople when the Venetians are at sea.

Yeah, Manuel was hoping the Pope wouldn't find out about his actions. But Manuel doesn't know the Venetians are coming. He won't be very surprised though when it happens. I'm still toying with how "ready" to be for it. Depends on how I want the story to go.

And Sinan,

I've played HoI 1. Even though I am a micro-management fiend, the poor interface just couldn't keep me. Maybe the sequals are better and I might check them out sometime.

[Ferret]

oh I do PK, I do. revenge will come in some shape or form :evil:

edit: in reply to the 'and me' earlier on

[Shahed]

HOI2: DD is great, perfect balance. I hate micromanagement as well.

BTW when can I sub for Teutonic Order ?????????!!!??????????

[Privateerkev]

HOI2: DD is great, perfect balance. I hate micromanagement as well.

You may have misunderstood me. I absolutly love micro-managing. :2thumbsup:


oh I do PK, I do. revenge will come in some shape or form :evil:

Thank you for informing me that you carry grudges from one game to another. :laugh4:

I try to keep my "faction leader personalities" completely seperate. But, to each their own. How you fashion faction strategy is your business. You can do it IC, OOC, random, combined with other games, whatever. :yes:

[Ferret]

Nah the revenge will be OOC, in RL. Otherwise I wouldn't be allied to Denmark right now, the HRE army next to Poland is really planning to march North and join the war against the Teutons.

[Privateerkev]

Nah the revenge will be OOC, in RL. Otherwise I wouldn't be allied to Denmark right now, the HRE army next to Poland is really planning to march North and join the war against the Teutons.

Well, just let me know ahead of time if your flying "over the pond" so I can hide. :clown:

[Shahed]

I'm gonna rename all the Polish cities, would this be part of the original plan ?

!!! BUAHAHAHAH !!! JUST KIDDING !!!

[Zim]

Yep, EF, and the Mongols will have to attack themas well. Of course, Tristan will kick all 5 of our butts and take the whole map, with only Norway surviving to the end. :clown:

[Privateerkev]

Yep, EF, and the Mongols will have to attack themas well. Of course, Tristan will kick all 5 of our butts and take the whole map, with only Norway surviving to the end. :clown:

Norway will be assimilated...

Denmark is like the Borg...

:clown:

[Zim]

Not if the Order assimilates Denmark first...


Norway will be assimilated...

Denmark is like the Borg...

:clown:

[_Tristan_]

Ok, guys... Stop throwing compliments, I'm drowning...

More seriously, I tried to play my turn last night but got a CTD on loading Phonics' s save...

The loading started then I got an error bip and the hourglass kept on turning ad infinitam...

Can anyone try the save and tell me if it works for them ? Might be a DL problem on my part...

Don't expect a quick upload of the save as I'm a bit tied up at work (before the Holidays) and the Crusade save is also up...

So It will either be one or the other, seeing how I'm in a bad spot in the two games at the moment and have to take things reeeeaaaaal carefully...

Anyway, both should be ready for this week-end...

[phonicsmonkey]

let me know if you want me to re-upload it

[_Tristan_]

Could you try it first and see if it shows the loading screen for the TO ?

If so do not bother with a new upload, something went wrong with the DL...

If you got a CTD, please do make another upload...:thumbsup:

[phonicsmonkey]

I took it from the site, works for me, I get the TO loading screen

try dl'ing it again maybe?

someone else want to try?

[_Tristan_]

try dl'ing it again maybe?



Will DL again and try it while home for lunch...

[_Tristan_]

OK, all's fine with the save... Tried it and it worked... Seems the first DL lacked some 200kb...:wall:

From the quick look I've had at the save, it seems I'm up to give someones some serious @$$-whomping... :whip:

Like it said in my sig at one time, "I'm gonna get medieval on your @$$" (quote of Marcellus Wallace in Pulp Fiction)...:2thumbsup:

[Zim]

Ok, guys... Stop throwing compliments, I'm drowning...


If we didn't laugh about our impending doom, we might weep. :clown:

Do you really plan on taking to the weekend to finish both saves? I know you like to take your time in each turn but that seems a bit excessive. It won't take you that long to slaughter me at both Riga and Tripoli! :clown:


PK, Phonicsmonkey, you better not get any ideas! I will not take "My Teutonic save is also up" as an escuse to say you'll need four days. ~;p

[Ferret]

I think he meant he'll have played both by the week-end, ready for the next player.

[Zim]

I know. That means about four days from the time he downloaded the saves to when he expects to complete them (and, presumably one will be done much earlier and the other will be posted then). :yes:

It was more of a setup for a bad joke than a complaint. :clown:

[Ferret]

oops, I misread and forgot to laugh :clown:

[Zim]

Sure....forgot...:clown:

[phonicsmonkey]

hey zim, stop cracking bad jokes and upload the britannia save :whip:

EDIT: sorry, I missed it because you edited your previous post and didn't post the link...I'll get to it tonight

:hijacked:

[Zim]

hey zim, stop cracking bad jokes and upload the britannia save :whip:

I did.

[Privateerkev]

PK, Phonicsmonkey, you better not get any ideas! I will not take "My Teutonic save is also up" as an escuse to say you'll need four days. ~;p

I agree. If your too busy to play a single turn in 24-48 hours, then alluding to one of your other hotseat games will do little to gain my sympathy... :clown:

[Shahed]

Greetings All !


Advance Notice

I'm flying to Frankfurt tonight around 20:00 Central European Time (CET) (www.timeanddate.com). I won't be back till after the weekend. I'll be taking my laptop with me and hopefully will check in over the weekend but most probably not. After I'm back I'll have very limited gaming time, so I will not volunteer to sub again this holiday, unless it's feasible (as much as I'd like to play 24/7/365).

As I stated my commitment is till 21st. I understand this notice is about 4 hours short of my commitment but hope that this will not be a problem. if there's anything I can do before around 19:00 CET let me know.

I've made this banner for this thread, Monkey feel free to use it if you want to in your diplmatic letters etc, if you wish to.


https://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/M2TW%20Banners/GH_Banner1.jpg

I've also found this decent detail Polish eagle, which can easily be made into a banner:


http://www.digiart-gps.com/Digi_Images/WB_Design/PL_EAGLE_crestegle-poland_b.png

GOOD LUCK TO ALL !

[phonicsmonkey]

thanks for the banners Sinan! have a great time in Frankfurt

[_Tristan_]

With much delay, here's the long awaited save...

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-5-2.rar

Lithuania's up...

[EDIT] Who should I PM to make an announcement to Poland ? Sinan or PO ?

[Doug-Thompson]

I'll get to this no later than tomorrow.

[Privateerkev]

[EDIT] Who should I PM to make an announcement to Poland ? Sinan or PO ?

I send everything to both of them.

[Shahed]

Tristan, I'm out now so you should send it to PO till a replacement applies, is found.

My pleasure Monkey !

RIDE ON ! Have fun guys !

[Doug-Thompson]

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-5-3.zip is up.

[Zim]

Taking the save.

[Zim]

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-5-4.zip is ready for EF.

[Ferret]

Denmark:http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-5-5.rar

I don't know what to do now :(

[phonicsmonkey]

hey EF, could you please update the first post with my name?

Monkey craves recognition!

:beam:

[Privateerkev]

Poland is up.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-5-6.zip

[Ferret]

only if the mongols attack Russia and Lithuania and Poland and then Denmark. If you do that then sure.

[Privateerkev]

only if the mongols attack Russia and Lithuania and Poland and then Denmark. If you do that then sure.

:tongue:

[Ferret]

I hope you noticed that the attack on Poland has stopped in the middle of the Empire and now has no idea where to go, perhaps that Northern settlement I haven't captured yet. Too many decisions dammit.

[Privateerkev]

I hope you noticed that the attack on Poland has stopped in the middle of the Empire and now has no idea where to go, perhaps that Northern settlement I haven't captured yet. Too many decisions dammit.

My heart bleeds...

:clown:

[Zim]

So....with PO out for something like 6 more days, and Sinan not able to sub for him for a while, can we find a new sub? Maybe an ally, like they do in the Multiplayer Hotseat? Pk maybe?

[Privateerkev]

I appreciate the sentiment, but, given new developments in the game, I will decline. I don't even know what to do with my own faction at the moment. I don't want responsibility for another who is in a similar situation. :no:

[_Tristan_]

Maybe ask someone from KOTR or the Other Hotseat games...

[Zim]

Even if we could find someone, EF seems to be MIA for a while (probably out on vacation or something). He has the password, so we'll have to wait on him.

[Privateerkev]

Pulled this from the KotR active duty thread:


gone from 25th December untill 31st December

And here is what PO originally said:


After that, Sinan can sub in until Jan. 2nd.

So, it seems that Sinan can play PO's turn if he wants. Then it's the Mongols. Then we can play on until EF's turn. Then we wait until he comes back next year.

At least that is how I am reading things. If people want to wait until EF comes back before Poland plays this next turn, that's cool too.

[Zim]

After I'm back I'll have very limited gaming time, so I will not volunteer to sub again this holiday, unless it's feasible (as much as I'd like to play 24/7/365).

As I stated my commitment is till 21st. I understand this notice is about 4 hours short of my commitment but hope that this will not be a problem. if there's anything I can do before around 19:00 CET let me know.

Don't forget this one. Sinan can't sub anymore, so we're a bit out of luck for the next few days.

[Privateerkev]

Well, then I guess PO can name another sub. Or EF can give an order to skip.

But until one of those two say something, I guess we can only sit and wait.

[Zim]

I think we covered that about a post ago. EF out, PO out, Sinan out, thus making waiting neccessary. :clown:

At least the other games sem to be going, wait, they've slowed too. I'm going to have to make a decision bout how much longer I can wait in the Britannia game. :clown:


Well, then I guess PO can name another sub. Or EF can give an order to skip.

But until one of those two say something, I guess we can only sit and wait.

[deguerra]

Im perfectly willing to sub if you need me, I just obviously need the password. what faction, btw?

(me, no knowing what Im getting myself into? nonsense! :clown: )

[Zim]

It's Poland and it might actually be easier to play not knowing what is happening. At least, it might fill you with less despair. They're in a bad way. :dizzy2:

With the GM and player gone I'm not sure anyone can appoint you as sub. :sweatdrop: Only other person with the password is Sinan, and I'm not sure if a sub can designate a sub's sub, although that would be very amusing if they could. :clown:

[Privateerkev]

With the GM and player gone I'm not sure anyone can appoint you as sub. :sweatdrop: Only other person with the password is Sinan, and I'm not sure if a sub can designate a sub's sub, although that would be very amusing if they could. :clown:

I think that decision is up to PO and/or EF. :yes:

I figure the player gets to decide who gets to play his faction but the GM can over ride the decision. Since both our gone, we just wait till one comes back. PO keeps coming back online though to check his PM's. I'll send him one.

[PerfectOne]

I'll be back on January 3rd and ready to play if you can wait until then. If not, feel free to put a sub on.

I've been checking my pms, but not responding until I get back full time.

Sorry for any inconvenience, this should pretty much be my last big break for a long time.

[Ferret]

I'm back and happy to wait until the 3rd. It was Christmas after all :clown:

[Ferret]

well 'tis the third and we now need a new player for Denmark as PK has left.

[PerfectOne]

It will be up when I get home from work today (hopefully by 6:00 p.m. PST).

Cheers,
Charles

[_Tristan_]

Yes.... We are back in business, folks...:2thumbsup:

[deguerra]

have you got your denmark player then? otherwise, I'd be up for it.

[PerfectOne]

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-5-7.sav

It's up.

[phonicsmonkey]

I should be able to get to this later today

[phonicsmonkey]

here is the save - go teutons!

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-6-1.zip

[_Tristan_]

Will play it tonite (GMT + 1)

[Ferret]

you're more than welcome to take it Deguerra and no no-one else has volunteered.

[_Tristan_]

Welcome deguerra

[deguerra]

cool. let me know when im up and ill need the password, i guess :thumbsup:

[_Tristan_]

Ok, here's the save for Doug...

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-6-2.rar

Doug, as a good neighbour, I took upon myself to do a bit of pruning on your family tree :clown:

Two Grand Duke and a Prince have been cut off...

[Doug-Thompson]

Ok, here's the save for Doug...

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-6-2.rar

Doug, as a good neighbour, I took upon myself to do a bit of pruning on your family tree :clown:

Two Grand Duke and a Prince have been cut off...


Unfortunately, that's not surprising, considering how much I was using bodyguard units -- about the only useful thing against Teutons.

[Doug-Thompson]

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-6-3.zip is up.

[deguerra]

woohoo its me. will get onto this tonight, after work. (about 8 hours or so).

[Zim]

Hey wait, according to the first post I'm player number three, after Doug. :clown:


woohoo its me. will get onto this tonight, after work. (about 8 hours or so).

[phonicsmonkey]

the list of players is ordered differently to the table showing the turn order

the table is correct I think, and it's Zim's / Novgorod's turn...Denmark is fifth

EF, you may want to correct the list in case it is confusing to others...

[deguerra]

ah sorry. the list got me. perhaps we ought to name the country in the save, as we are doing in the 2nd grand campaign, rather than some "arbitrary" number? not that it really matters.

[Zim]

Ok, I'm taking the save right now, should get the new one up tonight.

I wouldn't mind changing the save names to include faction name if EF is for it. However ,I wouldn't call the current system "arbitrary". The numbers correspond to the order of the players, and with relatively few players it hasn't been a problem so far. That said, putting the name of the next faction would make recognition of who is up instantaneous.

These are among the very first hotseat games here on the ORG, so the kinks of how best to run them are still being worked out. :yes:

[phonicsmonkey]

I can see one problem with using the names - on the uploader page the files appear in alpha-numeric order.

so with the current convention the latest file is always at the bottom of the list

change to faction names and that will not be the case any longer as they will appear in alphabetical order by faction name.

wouldn't be an issue unless someone had to hunt around for the file in the uploader, but still..:2cents:

EDIT: alpha-numberic? duh..

[deguerra]

Sorry Zim, "arbitary" was deliberately in quotation marks to signifiy that it wasn't truly arbitary, only useless for determining faction.

Regarding phonicmonkeys query, why not leave the number and then add the faction name. Best of both worlds? Rembering the faction is not a problem, as it's the one who's save screen is up anyway :thumbsup:

[Ferret]

I can see one problem with using the names - on the uploader page the files appear in alpha-numeric order.

so with the current convention the latest file is always at the bottom of the list

change to faction names and that will not be the case any longer as they will appear in alphabetical order by faction name.

wouldn't be an issue unless someone had to hunt around for the file in the uploader, but still..:2cents:

EDIT: alpha-numberic? duh..

this is exactly why it is a number not a word. I shall change the list now, I wrote that before I knew the order and yes the table is correct.

[deguerra]

so why not ie

2Teutonic-6-1-The Teutonic order.rar or something like that.

Sorry to keep being annoying, its really a very minor matter, but I just wanted to clarify. :beam:

[Ferret]

it's not that because everyone should know what their number is anyway :clown: this method is effective so I'll keep it.