HOTSEAT - Kingdoms-Teutonic hotseat [Archive] - Page 3

PerfectOne

01-16-2008, 22:00

Hmm.. This was an awful game experience.

I started out in an alliance with Denmark, Lithuania, and Novgorod. I took the brunt of TO forces to the west so that Novgorod and Lithuania could attack TO from the east. Denmark would attack from the North and, more importantly, keep HRE at bay.

Lithuania and Novgorod get into a pissing contest and they end up attacking one another. The alliance against TO is down to just Denmark, Poland, and Lithuania. I'm still ok because the threat of attack from Denmark holds HRE from invading me.

Then deguerra, Privateerkev's replacement, takes over Denmark and allies with HRE. Now HRE's has no threat and Poland is assaulted on all sides.

A simple player change has made this experience an awful one. I don't see the draw to these hotseat games. This has just been painful. You can't even engage in reliable diplomacy due to OOC people changes. (i.e. Privateerkev vowing to see the alliance through to the finish, then deguerra takes over and suddenly all bets are off and Poland/Lithuania left for the wolves).

This was my first hotseat game, and I admit I was a little green, but this is ridiculous and was ridiculously not fun. I don't think I'll try this again.

Doug-Thompson

01-16-2008, 22:05

Here's the new save :

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-7-3.rar

There is no mistake in the name, because :

https://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/badlieutenant_bucket/LithuaniaDestroyed.jpg

Sorry, Doug... :skull:

Novgorod is on...

A well won, thoroughly earned victory, TdC. My compliments.

And thanks for the respectful comments about my Grand Duke in the narrative thread.

deguerra

01-16-2008, 22:25

I'm very sorry to hear that PO, and even more sorry to hear that it was at least partly my fault.

I have to say though, I only played a single turn and:

1. When I took over the game, I was already allied with the HRE. My only batch of out-of-game Diplomacy with the HRE was to try to figure out of what nature our alliance was. In that sense, I did not abandon you to them.
2. More importantly, there was no army anywhere near the German border that could have intervened when you were attacked.
3. Most importantly, perhaps, you (and indeed almost none of my other ernstwhile allies) saw no need to inform me, as a new player, what deals and alliances were in place. I did not know I was even allied with you and Lithuahia until I was told so by the Teutonic Order (there was no in-game alliance).

So I somewhat refuse to take blame for things I had no idea about. I did not want to see Poland and Lithuania left to the wolves, but
a) had no idea it was going to happen
b) had no idea I was allied to them until quite late and
c) still don't think there was any reliable way of stopping it.

I am truly sorry you had a bad experience, and do hope you try another hotseat sometime and do not have to put up with such a hard position and such annoying player changes.

cheers
-deguerra

Zim

01-16-2008, 23:03

I'm sorry to ehar that, PO, but I'd note a few things.

Poland pretty much stayed neutral in the conflict until they were attacked by the Order. Until then you weren't even answering most of our pms when we tried to talk to you about an alliance. Playing both sides (dealing with the Order to try to get them to be neutral while also dealing with the factions fighting the Order) As a Johny come lately to corrdinating with us, and one who did so only after coming under attack, you may have suffered from not having the strongest links with other alliance members, but that's kind of the way things usually work in those circumstances.

The thing between me and Doug started with an OOC mistake (I didn't know his army could "ambush" mine when we weren't at war) and while it led to some changes hard to take back, we both rolled with it. That's the attraction about playing with other people. It's not having perfect allies who do everything you want them to, it's having to deal with real people, who change with the changing situation. Sometimes, like the thing with England in the MPC, it can even mean being actively betrayed. That's what makes it more of a challenge, and makes it both maddening and more interesting. Let's face it, I'm not a great player. I only beat a player in the Crusades thanks to overwhelming force and Jihad movement points. I have only a slim chance of winning any of the games I'm in, and in most of them if a couple neighbors went after me, I'd be dead before anyone could help. I accept that, and although it might make me mad when it first happens, I won't have any resentment for the people who attack me.

As for deguerra, with Lithuania dying so quickly (something none of us were in a position to prevent), I can't imagine He would stay in a one person war, especially without forces in place to quickly go after the HRE. By the time he mounted a decent offensive, you'd be wiped off of the map.

And deguerra, I tried to give you a full run down on the situation. :clown: Tristan may have communicated with you first, but you, he, and I are in vastly different time zones, so it can take a day or two to get things down. I think Doug said some things as well, and while they probably concerned him more than PO, I think that's understandable considering Doug was also on the verge of defeat.

deguerra

01-16-2008, 23:06

Zim

01-16-2008, 23:10

I'm sorry I didn't mention the alliance between you and the HRE. I had forgotten about it. :shame:

It was set up early in the game by PK and EF, and from my vantage point (hardly an omniscient one) it seemed to consist msotly of an agreement not to attack eachother. Later, PK used it to pressure EF not to attack Poland. That leverage was wekened by the Russo-Lithuanian split, though, so I'm not sure what kind of impact it could have had.

phonicsmonkey

01-17-2008, 00:33

Hey PO, I'm sorry you haven't had fun and I hope you don't give up on hotseats because of this.

This is my first hotseat game and I took over the Mongols in a desperate position, so I've really been unable to affect events at all so far...and I suspect that when the TO and HRE reach my corner of the map I'll be steamrolled in no time...

But I'm still having fun trying to think my way out of a hole!

My advice is to take what lessons you can from it and move on to the next game...if you stick around I'll be starting a Broken Crescent hotseat at some point (I have to finish one of the two I'm already in first), and I'd love to have you onboard..

PerfectOne

01-17-2008, 09:21

yesyes, Zim, I'm not blaming you, or anyone else for that matter. It was a complicated situation, with nobody quite sure what was going on, and I was obviously confused. I just found it curious that I never once received a PM from PO.

I admit I made mistakes in not keeping up who was playing what, and in the beginning I WAS trying to decide whether to ally TO or join the coalition. After the 2nd turn I was in the coalition since TO attacked me.

As far a deguerra is concerened, I was still PMing Privateerkev....I didn't realize that he was not still Denmark.

Too many people were changing (two permanent subs this game and one temp sub for me that never actually ended up playing a turn). 18 pages of threads, most of which were idle chatter, meant I kept missing personnel changes. I didn't even know that Lithuania and Novgorod were at war - the last communication I got said it was being resolved and next thing I know Novgorod is PMing me saying to stop giving away my plans to him since he's no longer part of coalition.

Too many changes, not enough communication (I contributed to this, but I refuse to accept that everything is my fault - especially communication about personnel or essential game matters). I think a dedicated thread about game matters would be better, but eh...maybe that's just not how it's done.

I tried it, it's just not for me. It's not so much a time commitment (although it is that), but too much was going on this game OUTSIDE the game that made it not fun.

_Tristan_

01-17-2008, 09:22

What can I say to you, PO ? I feel partly responsible (and maybe more than partly...) for the bad vibes you got on this game...

Fact is that as the Order I need a strong catholic base to gain access to high level units, a prerequisite that can only be found in Polish lands...

Moreover, knowing that most other players were going to side against me (with perhaps the exception of the HRE), I tried to bring some of them around or delay them and in your case, bring them to my side so that I could make you lower your guard...

As to the change of players, I still don't think it changed the game a lot... Even if PK had remained in game, it was too late for him to intervene and save you... With Lithuania almost gone, Novgorod changing sides and the HRE hsotile to you, Denmark could have maintained its warring disposition and won some coastal provinces from me, a loss I would have gladly paid to gain access to your richer and more pious settlements...

I think that you relied too much on what went down in game, neglecting all the behind the scenes deals... Once I had taken Jazdow (your main castle) I would have sttled for a ceasefire and even at the cost of returning to you the town of Plock... But that offer had to come from you, not me... You prefered to rely on force of arms, a losing bet it proved to be...

I'm sorry you got a bad feeling about this but I understand and hope that you can join in another hotseat : there is real fun and sometimes losing situations can be almost overturned, as happened to me against the Turks in the Crusades Hotseat...

Hope to see you back in another game...

@ Doug : Glad you liked the story.. I thought that your Faction leader deserved such a treatment and with the traits my own got from that fight it had to me memorable...

That bridge is now renamed Mindaugas' Fall...

We definitely have to find another hotseat to be on the same side so that this never happens again :yes:

PerfectOne

01-17-2008, 09:31

_Tristan_

01-17-2008, 09:48

Maybe I'm being too harsh and bitter. It's not like I played an incredibly great game. I guess I'm just frustrated that for the entire game I might as well have been the AI for as much chance as I had. I'm either really incompetent (possibly)

Not at all...

or Poland really sucks in simmed battles (definitely).

It depends on who you're facing... and maybe how it is played... I don't know how I would have done playing Poland as I volunteered at the start before I knew that nobody would play the Order something would have been too bad IMHO as it is the single most important faction in this game... I've done mistakes which hopefully you didn't take advantage of and you made some that I've been able to use to my profit...

And I actually took factions at their word, which was stupid.
As a first timer, i didn't appreciate the duplicitious nature of the game.

Everybody here is quite new, I don't think having played in one another hotseat or two makes any of us veteran players... But having played a lot of tabletop Diplomacy games and others of the kind, I know how players can be duplicitous and unpredictable... Some players like to blow a fuse from time to time (although we've not seen anything of the kind yet...) striking at long-time allies or doing something totally unpredictable... I would never put great trust in any agreement or alliance... Paranoia is the name of the game, IMHO...

By turn 2, I was basically already dead.

I wouldn't be so sure... The situation was certainly difficult but you could have negotiated yourself out of it... Cutting one limb to save the rest of the body... I think that's the crux of the matter : you relied too much on the game itself and not enough on the diplomatic play which I agree is something that is not at all necessary when playing SP...

In hotseat games, diplomacy is essential... I know that it might be a hard learned lesson but I hope you've gained from it and that we will see you in another of those games soon... Really...:yes:

Zim

01-17-2008, 09:53

Poland is actually one of the better factions in the Teutonic game as far as autoresolved battles, since they get high stat knights (along with the other catholic factions). Problem is, the Teutonic Order's early units are better than anyone else's, and Tristan is an excellent player.

I think we're all kind of first-timers at this. As far as I know all for all of us this and the Crusades game are our first. There can be a bit of a steep learning curve. Tristan's death squad of assassins has been quite the headache in the Crusades game, something I would never have expected learning to play the game against the AI. :sweatdrop:

We're all getting the hang of things. EF had the misfortune of being taken out on turn five of the Crusades game, and he is by no means a bad player. Novgorod is ruined and I'm in the bottom tier of factions right now in this one. :yes:

Doug-Thompson

01-17-2008, 17:19

So I'd been declared untrustworthy in PMs to Poland, all while I was losing three armies and getting my Grand Duke killed in North Germany and Poland.

So what? Talk doesn't matter. What matters is that I sent three armies and my Grand Duke to North Germany and Poland.

Look, did the "Grand Alliance" make mistakes? You bet. But that's not the reason Poland got dinged. It's been hurt badly by the same thing that's killed me: The Teutons played by TdC.

Ferret

01-17-2008, 19:33

PerfectOne

01-17-2008, 22:10

Sorry for the delay, my internet was down, PO you shouldn't be like that I was wiped out in the Crusades hotseat much earlier than this and wasn't too bothered. Diplomacy is actually more imprtant than playing the turns, you say you were forced into a coalition due to a turn 2 attack and this surprises you? You had made no contact with me and Tristan previous to this and we had no reason to leave you alone, you should have expected an attack from all neighbours and tried to make a deal with them. You should take this as a lesson in future as I did after the Crusades 'incident'.

I made contact with Tristan right off the bat, actually....he made an offer of peace, I entered into negotiations while weighing my options, and he attacked the following turn and said "nevermind, I took your cities instead."

Like I said, I wasn't ready for the duplicitious nature of the diplomacy. I've admitted I didn't play well. That didn't make the game any more fun, and me realizing I sucked at the game didn't make it fun either.

It wasn't about winning or losing - if you think I'm complaining about that you're not taking what I wrote seriously.

The problem is communication. I didn't communicate well (or at least that's what everyone's saying - it's my fault), and that's fine, but that doesn't mean there was GOOD communication even about OOC events. In fact, if you're saying I didn't communicate well, then by definition there was BAD COMMUNICATION! Players changed, I was sending plans to the wrong people, because I was out of the loop on seemingly everything. Regardless of whether I was to blame or not, I DIDN'T GET THE MEMOS (so to speak), and so I had no idea what was going on. What would drive me to be active in PMs when I don't even know who I'm PMing because no decisions in-game or OOC (or even results of decisions) get sent to me.

You'll say all the OOC stuff was posted, and it was...in 18 pages of text. That's hard for me to navigate - between visits another 1-2 pages of text pops up. It was mind boggling and the decisions were lost between unrelated OOC discussions, etc. (like this one).

If I had been eliminated in turn 2 or 3, it would have been actually more fun because I could have said "wow, I suck at this. I need to really improve. Maybe diplomacy is important." instead of my thoughts now, which are "wow, not only did I suck at this, but what's the point of diplomacy if there are 3 players changes (including my short term one) in 7 turns.

deguerra

01-17-2008, 22:48

I don't know why you're all getting so defensive about this, anyway. Even if I never play another game like this, it's not affecting you at all. There's apparently a thriving community of AAR players out there, who cares if one leaves after a bad experience.

No hard feelings from my end PO. I understand that you were frustrated, and I can appreciate why. I was only trying to point out that it wasn't easy jumping into the game at one point, and that I was quite confused and out of my depth. I really am sorry if that affected your enjoyment, and I don't want to be defensive, but rather encourage you to give another hotseat a try, not because we need more players, but because I think you might enjoy it.

It wasn't about winning or losing - if you think I'm complaining about that you're just reacting defensively and not reading anything I wrote. That's not the problem.

The problem is communication. I didn't communicate well (or at least that's what everyone's saying - it's my fault), and that's fine, but that doesn't mean there was GOOD communication even about OOC events. In fact, if you're saying I didn't communicate well, then by definition there was BAD COMMUNICATION! Players changed, I was sending plans to the wrong people, because I was out of the loop on seemingly everything. Regardless of whether I was to blame or not, I DIDN'T GET THE MEMOS (so to speak), and so I had no idea what was going on. What would drive me to be active in PMs when I don't even know who I'm PMing because no decisions in-game or OOC (or even results of decisions) get sent to me.

You'll say all the OOC stuff was posted, and it was...in 18 pages of text. That's hard for me to navigate - between visits another 1-2 pages of text pops up. It was mind boggling and the decisions were lost between unrelated OOC discussions, etc.

I hear you there, but that is something we all have to live with. For better or for worse, we are stuck with this (the forum) medium of communication. It's not perfect by any stretch and it allows mistakes to happen. Furthermore, most of us are pretty green at this hotseat thing, so communication was certain to be far from perfect. We're all still getting into this, and once again I'd encourage you to stay, if only to relay these experience youve had to to find ways of alleviating the difficulties in the future.

If I had been eliminated in turn 2 or 3, it would have been actually more fun because I could have said "wow, I suck at this. I need to really improve. Maybe diplomacy is important." instead of my thoughts now, which are "wow, not only did I suck at this, but what's the point of diplomacy if there are 3 players changes (including my short term one) in 7 turns.

Please do stop killing yourself about this. You do not suck. I do not suck. Zim does not suck. Tristan is God. That is all there is to it :clown: Seriously, though, I appreciat the player changes are annoying. Again, it is something the rest of us have no control over. If that kills your enjoyment of hotseats, then yes, I can appreciate why you wouldn't want to try any more. Although, to be fair this particular one was hit particuarily hard by them. It's a matter of luck in the end, I guess.

Doug-Thompson

01-17-2008, 23:10

We're in the process of finding out which players will stay with a game. That's all. We're not finished yet, but we've found a few.

Zim

01-18-2008, 01:39

Doug, who said you were untrustworthy? I sure didn't , and included OOC disclaimers in most of my pms concerning the subject so people would know it was my mistake, and planned on doing the same when I did my next post in the story thread so people would know. :yes:

I lost about the same number of armies myself, but my Grand Duke lived through his lost battle. :clown:

Anyway, I am bowing out of this whole who should have done what debate. I'm not sure how someone who returned maybe 1 out of 5 of my pms can complain about lack of communication, but if that's the way you see it, that's fine.It's only a game. I vastly prefer cooperative multiplayer myself, but as the AI is a joke, that only happens in big elaborate games like KOTR. In the meantime, I'll get my fill of cooperation and diplomacy from these hotseat games as well.

So I'd been declared untrustworthy in PMs to Poland, all while I was losing three armies and getting my Grand Duke killed in North Germany and Poland.

So what? Talk doesn't matter. What matters is that I sent three armies and my Grand Duke to North Germany and Poland.

Look, did the "Grand Alliance" make mistakes? You bet. But that's not the reason Poland got dinged. It's been hurt badly by the same thing that's killed me: The Teutons played by TdC.

Zim

01-18-2008, 01:48

Anyway, I am bowing out of this whole who should have done what debate. I'm not sure how someone who returned maybe 1 out of 5 of my pms can complain about lack of communication, but if that's the way you see it, that's fine.It's only a game. I vastly prefer cooperative multiplayer myself, but as the AI is a joke, that only happens in big elaborate games like KOTR. In the meantime, I'll get my fill of cooperation and diplomacy from these hotseat games as well.

I'll be checking to see when my turn is up. :yes:

PerfectOne

01-18-2008, 03:19

I'm not sure how someone who returned maybe 1 out of 5 of my pms can complain about lack of communication, but if that's the way you see it, that's fine.It's only a game.

Zim, you sent me 10 pms over the course of the whole game. I sent you 5. I'll tolerate you saying I only had 1/2 as many pms, but I'm having trouble seeing that as 1 out of 5... I think this idea that I was incommunicado the entire game has been grossly exaggerated. Maybe I was the least communacative (next to the first Mongols), but I was hardly not responding to anyone...

And as I said before, I don't see how you can see it as NOT a communication problem, whether it was all my fault (what you seem to believe) or not.

Regardless, this is going nowhere. I'm sorry I brought it up. Let's just all drop it.

Doug-Thompson

01-18-2008, 03:29

It wasn't you, Zim. Sorry. I'll PM you about it. This post is just letting everybody know that I'll play again with Zim anytime. Same goes for the rest of the survivors of this game.

Doug-Thompson

01-18-2008, 03:44

We definitely have to find another hotseat to be on the same side so that this never happens again

Looking forward to it.

deguerra

01-18-2008, 04:19

OK guys. As was said, we've discussed it, and it's not getting anywhere. Let's drop it now.:yes:

Zim

01-18-2008, 05:33

Considering you're the two best players in these hotseat games, I can't help but think there should be some law against your coming together. ~;)

Looking forward to it.

Doug-Thompson

01-18-2008, 15:50

You're too kind, Zim. Your Turkish gambit opening in the Crusades game was great.

_Tristan_

01-18-2008, 17:07

And I have no true merit playing with both of the strongest factions on autoresolve...

Plus, stopping making me such an awe-inspiring player or I won't find anybody to play with soon...

_Tristan_

01-21-2008, 09:57

You're up, EF.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-7-4.zip

Is this the last save ?

Get to it...

Ferret

01-23-2008, 22:06

GAH! I'm sure I posted this ages ago (plus my internet has been down AGAIN!) well best play it properly this time.

Ferret

01-23-2008, 22:22

Danes:http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-7-5.rar

sorry about the delay, I can be very stupid at times.

deguerra

01-23-2008, 22:28

I'll forgive you. I'll get to this after work (ETA 9 or so hours)

deguerra

01-24-2008, 14:43

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-7-6.rar
Poland is up. Pm sent

PerfectOne

01-25-2008, 09:01

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-7-7.sav

The Holy Roman Empire now has a new leader...

_Tristan_

01-25-2008, 09:04

Nice to see that Poland can still bite...

phonicsmonkey

01-25-2008, 11:49

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-8-1.zip

Hochmeister, do your worst

_Tristan_

01-25-2008, 14:03

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-8-1.zip

Hochmeister, do your worst

What do you mean ?...:inquisitive:

Ferret

01-25-2008, 18:09

Nice to see that Poland can still bite...

nice for you at least :wall:

_Tristan_

01-25-2008, 18:15

nice for you at least :wall:

Frankly, I sympathize...~:mecry:

But, with PO having almost given up on the game (understandably), I thought it was nice to see that there was still some fighting spirit in him...

Sorry that you had to pay the price of that show of spirit...

One thing, though : How could that happen ? I thought you had him by the :furious3: ... How could he manage to kill your Faction Leader ?

Ferret

01-25-2008, 18:19

I presume by assasination, they always seem to succeed in hotseats, they always have for me despite very low odds. If there was a battle with that army and he won then I am stuffed.

_Tristan_

01-25-2008, 18:26

Assassination... That could be it... Although getting to kill a FL is not easily done... And I know what I'm talking about (see the Crusades...)...

Did you leave your faction Leader in a settlement ? that could explain it also...

A spy to open the gates, an assault and goodbye...

PerfectOne

01-25-2008, 18:33

No, his faction leader was assaulting my capital, where MY faction leader was holed up. I sallied forth (against odds, mind you, in what I thought would be a suicidal attack), and won... and his faction leader was killed in the conflict.

Strange times...

All my assassins have been killed :(.

Ferret

01-25-2008, 18:35

_Tristan_

01-25-2008, 18:46

EF, didn't you have a siege weapon for that siege ? :whip:

If not, sorry, but you had it coming... The Poles had a powerful army in that city... Leaving your own besieging them was asking for punishment...:smash:

PO, a well deserved victory... Congratulations...:2thumbsup:

Ferret

01-25-2008, 18:55

I did have a siege weapon, two units of catapults, but I didn't attack as I thought there was no rush and I could just starve them for a few turns. This is a hard blow though, it'll be a long time before I'm able to take Poznan now :wall:

_Tristan_

01-25-2008, 18:56

Never do tomorrow what can be done today... :laugh4:

Zim

01-25-2008, 22:57

Ouch. Nice one, PO. :yes:

phonicsmonkey

01-25-2008, 23:30

What do you mean ?...:inquisitive:

just that it's your turn

_Tristan_

01-26-2008, 18:23

Turn played...

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-8-3.rar

And another one bites the dust...

https://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/badlieutenant_bucket/Poland-Destroyed.jpg

Sorry, PO...

Your Faction Leader was too much exposed...

PerfectOne

01-26-2008, 18:45

Was going to happen sooner or later. It just happened sooner.

Zim

01-26-2008, 23:35

Will get both saves up tonight.

deguerra

01-27-2008, 05:56

Hey guys. Just to let you know again, I'll be gone for the next three weeks, and Doug-Thompson is kindly taking over, so be sure to direct all diplomacy/complaints/charges of sexual harassement to him, and do please PM him when its his turn.

Its been great playing with you guys and I hope to see this hotseat going just as strong when I get back.

cheers

deguerra

Zim

01-27-2008, 11:12

Done, EF's up.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-8-4.zip

Ferret

01-27-2008, 14:10

time to see the full extent of Poland's damage.

Ferret

01-27-2008, 14:26

done for Danes:http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-8-5.rar

_Tristan_

01-29-2008, 13:17

Bump

Doug-Thompson

01-29-2008, 15:39

Sorry for the delay. Will get to it today.

Doug-Thompson

01-30-2008, 04:48

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-8-6.zip is up.

phonicsmonkey

01-30-2008, 08:48

teutons are up

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-9-1.zip

_Tristan_

01-30-2008, 13:11

Novgorod's turn...

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-9-3.rar

Zim

01-31-2008, 14:09

You're up, EF.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-9-4.zip

Ferret

01-31-2008, 20:00

Denmark: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-9-5.rar

Doug-Thompson

01-31-2008, 20:12

Will get to this tonight.

Ferret

01-31-2008, 20:20

Will get to this tonight.
:2thumbsup:

phonicsmonkey

02-01-2008, 06:33

yowzer, this one's going at quite the fast pace!

:2thumbsup:

Zim

02-01-2008, 06:40

So is the Crusades one, although that's partly from being down to 4 players. I think we went through two turns in a couple days recently. :dizzy2:

yowzer, this one's going at quite the fast pace!

:2thumbsup:

_Tristan_

02-01-2008, 08:44

Yep, when I am not delaying things, the pace quickens...:clown:

Doug-Thompson

02-01-2008, 13:46

Speaking of which ...

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-9-6.zip is up.

phonicsmonkey

02-01-2008, 14:16

Tristan is up next

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-10-1.zip

_Tristan_

02-01-2008, 22:31

Zim's turn

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-10-2.rar

Zim

02-06-2008, 19:52

Sorry guys, somehow I'd gotten it into my head that it was somebody else's turn. Off to teh dentist now, but when I return I'll finish my turn.

Zim

02-06-2008, 23:07

Done.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-10-3.zip

_Tristan_

02-13-2008, 09:40

I've just PMed EF about playing is turn...

Does anyone have his PW ? If so, please feel free to skip his turn...

Zim

02-13-2008, 09:47

Hmmm...didn't EF hand each of his games over to a new gm when he first started having computer troubles. That person might have the password.

_Tristan_

02-13-2008, 12:19

I'll PM Econ to ask him if EF gave him his password

Ferret

02-13-2008, 12:39

sorry taking the save

I thought I was still number 4

edit:http://www.mizus.com/files/pbm/2Teutonic-10-4.rar for DENMARK

Doug-Thompson

02-13-2008, 15:17

Got the file. Will get to it later.

Doug-Thompson

02-14-2008, 03:40

http://www.mizus.com/files/pbm/2Teutonic-10-05.zip is up.

phonicsmonkey

02-14-2008, 04:05

mongol time

I'll try to get to it later tonight - although pretending to be Ghengis Khan on Valentine's Day might stretch the patience of mrs monkey somewhat...

phonicsmonkey

02-14-2008, 08:22

crafty monkey...

http://www.mizus.com/files/pbm/2Teutonic-11-1.zip

Teutons are up

_Tristan_

02-15-2008, 22:30

Save for Novgorod

http://www.mizus.com/files/pbm/2Teutonic-11-2.rar

Zim

02-17-2008, 01:33

Doh! I keep forgetting how few players we have now. At least I caught it quickly. Will have the save up tonight. :yes:

Doug-Thompson

02-18-2008, 07:31

Ready?

Zim

02-18-2008, 08:25

http://www.mizus.com/files/pbm/2Teutonic-11-3.zip

HRE's up.

Ferret

02-18-2008, 21:11

Danes:http://www.mizus.com/files/pbm/2Teutonic-11-4.rar

Doug-Thompson

02-18-2008, 22:02

Will do tonight.

Doug-Thompson

02-20-2008, 02:59

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-11-05.zip is up.

phonicsmonkey

02-20-2008, 03:37

will get to this later

phonicsmonkey

02-20-2008, 08:21

teutons are up

http://www.mizus.com/files/pbm/2Teutonic-12-01.zip

_Tristan_

02-20-2008, 23:51

Novgorod is up

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-12-2.rar

Zim

02-21-2008, 09:57

HRE's up.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-12-3.zip

Ferret

02-21-2008, 21:02

Danes are up http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-12-4.rar

Doug-Thompson

02-24-2008, 18:57

Danes are up http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-12-4.rar

deguerra's back. I'm going to do him the courtesy of letting him make his own move if he wants. If he's too busy, I'll do it.

Doug-Thompson

02-25-2008, 07:08

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-12-05.zip is up.

phonicsmonkey

02-25-2008, 08:59

teutons

http://www.mizus.com/files/pbm/2Teutonic-13-01.zip

_Tristan_

02-25-2008, 16:40

Save for Novgorod

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-13-2.rar

Funny shuffle you seem to be doing with the Mongols btw

Zim

02-26-2008, 10:44

Done.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-13-3.zip

I'm doing a funny what now? :juggle2:

_Tristan_

02-26-2008, 12:57

I meant funny how your territory will be intertwined... Will make for interesting situations further down the road...

Ferret

02-26-2008, 19:46

Danes:http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-13-4.rar

check your inbox Deguerra :)

deguerra

02-27-2008, 01:58

mongols are up:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-13-5.rar

phonicsmonkey

02-27-2008, 09:37

teutons are up

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-14-01.zip

_Tristan_

02-28-2008, 13:16

Novgorod's turn

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-14-02.rar

Zim

02-28-2008, 13:36

HRE is up.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-14-03.zip

Ferret

02-28-2008, 20:34

Danes are up: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-14-04.rar

deguerra

02-29-2008, 00:19

sorry missed this yesterday. am on it now

deguerra

02-29-2008, 00:37

Mongols are up:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-14-05.rar

The Norse have seen the error of their ways and joined the Danish nation.

phonicsmonkey

02-29-2008, 00:39

I get to this after work today

phonicsmonkey

02-29-2008, 08:30

teutons are up

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-15-01.zip

tristan, I would accept your generous offer of an alliance but I don't want to swap maps as I am too scared of you

_Tristan_

03-01-2008, 09:20

Novgorod is up

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-15-02.zip

(Sorry for the delay but we all the turns I had to play, I had to forget to post about one of them...)

phonicsmonkey

03-03-2008, 13:23

bump

Zim

03-03-2008, 14:07

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-15-03.zip HRE's up.

Ran into an odd bug. Someone had made a diplomatic offer to Novgorod, but I couldn't accept it, so I just counteroffered the exact same offer.

_Tristan_

03-03-2008, 14:49

Something of the king happened to me in the Crusades hotseat... I couln't accept the offer to give one of my settlements and had to counter-offer if to the other party for their acceptance of their own offer...:dizzy2:

Ferret

03-03-2008, 20:35

save for Danes:http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-15-04.rar

deguerra

03-04-2008, 00:09

Mongols are up:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-15-05.rar

phonicsmonkey

03-04-2008, 04:43

should get to this in a few hours

this game is now running completely in synch with the britannia hotseat - kinda good and kinda bad....

phonicsmonkey

03-04-2008, 09:30

teutons are up

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-16-01.zip

_Tristan_

03-04-2008, 11:59

Novgorod' turn

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-16-02.rar

Doug-Thompson

03-07-2008, 14:57

Sorry for the delay on this. Zim's asked me to sub for him because of internet connection problems. Will get to it soon.

_Tristan_

03-09-2008, 18:24

Any progress ?

Zim

03-09-2008, 18:29

I get wireless back today, so I'll just upload the save myself. :yes:

Zim

03-10-2008, 04:15

Sorry for the wait.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-16-03.zip

Ferret

03-10-2008, 17:31

is this me? Sorry I'm getting confused with all the different numbers from different hotseats.

Ferret

03-10-2008, 18:29

Danes:http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-16-04.rar

deguerra

03-10-2008, 23:55

Mongols are up:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-16-05.rar

phonicsmonkey

03-11-2008, 08:13

teutons

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-17-01.zip

_Tristan_

03-12-2008, 12:38

Novgorod is up

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-17-02.rar

Zim

03-13-2008, 09:24

HRE's up.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-17-03.zip

Ferret

03-13-2008, 18:02

Danes:http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-17-04.rar

deguerra

03-14-2008, 08:38

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-17-05.rar

Mongols are up

phonicsmonkey

03-16-2008, 01:02

sorry for the delay, busy weekend

teutons are up

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-18-01.zip

_Tristan_

03-17-2008, 13:25

Novgorod :

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-18-02.rar

phonicsmonkey

03-19-2008, 14:01

bump

_Tristan_

03-19-2008, 16:11

Real life got me...

I'll have this done tomorrow...

( EDIT :I meant I will get the Britannia turn done tomorrow...)

Zim

03-20-2008, 07:34

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-18-03.zip

HRE is up.

Ferret

03-20-2008, 17:56

Danes:http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-18-04.rar

deguerra

03-21-2008, 01:28

Mongols are up:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-18-05.rar

phonicsmonkey

03-21-2008, 03:48

Teutons are up

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-19-01.zip

_Tristan_

03-21-2008, 16:22

Save for Novgorod

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-19-02.rar

Zim

03-23-2008, 06:18

HRE's up.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-19-03.zip

Ferret

03-23-2008, 11:34

Danes:http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-19-04.rar

deguerra

03-23-2008, 14:48

Sigh. So little money, so much to do. So many enemies, so little time.

Mongols are up:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-19-05.rar

phonicsmonkey

03-24-2008, 02:24

teutons are up - turn 20!

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-20-01.zip

_Tristan_

03-25-2008, 17:32

Save for Novgorod :

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-20-02.rar

And Deguerra, I truly liked your in-game message, really...

deguerra

03-25-2008, 23:53

:laugh4: I'm glad. Figured the Danes should go out with a bang, if not of weapons then at least of words :D

Zim

03-27-2008, 10:44

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-20-03.zip

HRE's up.

Ferret

03-27-2008, 12:31

Danes:http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-20-04.rar

this is starting to get interesting...

deguerra

03-28-2008, 02:11

Mongols are up:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-20-05.rar

phonicsmonkey

03-30-2008, 01:49

teutons are up

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-21-01.zip

_Tristan_

03-31-2008, 16:08

Sorry fellas, I'm a bit tied up at the moment but I'll do my best to do it before a couple of days have passed...

Ferret

03-31-2008, 20:47

no worries, I'm not exactly a strict GM, take the time you need.

_Tristan_

03-31-2008, 21:49

Thanks, I promise to do my best but as I said I'm on a tight schedule right now..

_Tristan_

04-02-2008, 21:59

Finally managed to get to it...

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-21-02.rar

HRE's up

And thank you all for your patience...

Ferret

04-02-2008, 22:39

gah! What happened to the Russians?

edit: must have been a typo, Novgorod is up.

Zim

04-02-2008, 22:57

I'll probably die, but it will take at least a couple more turns. :clown:

_Tristan_

04-03-2008, 10:26

Sorry, I truly meant that Novogorod was up...

Bit tired...

Zim

04-05-2008, 11:57

Well, at least I scored a couple of minor morale boosting victories so that the survivors of the Order's conquest can tell their grandchildren of the noble last stand of Novgorod against the deceitful betraying Germans. :clown:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-21-03.zip

Ferret

04-05-2008, 13:00

hey not all Germans are Teutons, we never betrayed you :P

deguerra

04-07-2008, 10:04

What's happening EF?

Ferret

04-07-2008, 10:13

oops sorry everyone I forgot it was my turn. Still got a few hours to deadline, will play now.

deguerra

04-07-2008, 10:14

No worries. Just wanted to remind you :2thumbsup:

Ferret

04-07-2008, 10:29

good job you did, otherwise I may have taken a loooooooong time. I'll just play my MPC turn and then upload them both.

In this game all I have to say is: it has begun.

deguerra

04-07-2008, 10:30

didn't you say that last turn?

:clown:

Ferret

04-07-2008, 10:43

Danes are up:http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-21-04.rar

edit: no I said "this is getting interesting"

learn to read :clown:

deguerra

04-07-2008, 13:46

Mongols:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-21-05.rar

_Tristan_

04-07-2008, 13:53

@ deguerra : now you must have an inkling of what EF was pointing out...

deguerra

04-07-2008, 13:59

Oh I had an inkling already :laugh4: We've not been watching you grow to outclass us all put together completely idly you know. As Knud has so gracefully stated, I don't think we have a large chance of taking you down, but we'll die trying.

Ferret

04-07-2008, 14:58

lol I think Tristan thought I'd be attacking you deguerra, not him :clown:

_Tristan_

04-07-2008, 15:12

Seeing your fleet halfway to Denmark I knew full well what you intended...

That's why I took matters into my own hands and attacked him myself instead... :whip:

Ferret

04-07-2008, 15:17

yes, it was sailing to Denmark....

you might have a little surprise next turn Tristan...

Glad the ruse worked though. I sailed it halfway to Denmark but kind of diagonally so it would get closer to where it is really sailing, and this turn it finished the journey. There is large garrison nearby though, not sure how well this war will go...

_Tristan_

04-07-2008, 15:27

I can't wait to see what mischief has been committed by you EF and Zim... and deguerra and phonics and who else ?

Ferret

04-07-2008, 15:30

the rebels and a Spanish crusading noble, that is all there is.

:clown:

you can't blame us for trying to stop you, though it is probably too late now...

_Tristan_

04-07-2008, 15:46

What I do not like is the size of your army in Prague (is it Prague ? that southern fortress...) plus the fact that you left some of your agents wandering through my lands is not the best way to gain my whole confidence...

Now we'll see who's laid the best trap... MUAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA

Ferret

04-07-2008, 15:58

:sweatdrop:

hopefully you did not see the armies hiding in the trees...

Zim

04-07-2008, 23:38

No mischief from me, except taking a crappy, worthless village and a small castle (which I think you had taken from me). :clown:

I was really just trying to recover from ruining my ecnomy in the last war.

I can't wait to see what mischief has been committed by you EF and Zim... and deguerra and phonics and who else ?

phonicsmonkey

04-08-2008, 12:58

not much mischief to be had from the toothless mongols :no:

we may gum someone to death if we catch them fast asleep and are quick about it...

teutons are up

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-22-01.zip

Ferret

04-08-2008, 13:04

oh well...looks like Frenchie is going to achieve global domination...

phonicsmonkey

04-08-2008, 13:10

only by pretending to be german! :beam:

:clown:

_Tristan_

04-10-2008, 22:41

Novgorod's still up : :yes:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-22-02.rar

And sorry for the delay but it required a lot of thinking and planning...

deguerra

04-11-2008, 04:45

pfft. with that military score how much thinking could possibly go into it

:clown:

Zim

04-11-2008, 06:38

When you're as good as Tristan, it's not a real victory unless your losses are completely negligible. :clown:

pfft. with that military score how much thinking could possibly go into it

:clown:

_Tristan_

04-11-2008, 10:07

In fact, losses were quite hard (on my part) but Novgorod didn't bear the brunt of it... Two of your ambushes failed, one because your men were noticed (a noble and some HA near Olystra), the other by my walking into it... But otherwise, it went rather well for you...

Glad the ruse worked though. I sailed it halfway to Denmark but kind of diagonally so it would get closer to where it is really sailing

It thought it was headed for Visby... Much better that you landed them where you did :devil:

The Germans have a new leader... The late Emperor Nikolaus has learned to dance the Teutonic two-step... His Successor Emperor Harold has taken dance lessons also, with the same result...

Now you see who laid the best trap...

What worries me most is Danish invasion... King Knud shouldn't have dislodged my merchant, I would still be looking for him... As for Prince Charles, I think he will have to take the long road to reach Order lands...
All the while a Order military outpost has been established in Hasselholm...

As for military power, it may truly be more than your whole forces combined but it is rather spread out whereas your forces can be concentrated in a single point...

Frankly, it required a lot of planning to prevent any backstabbing maneuvers... I had to make a list of things to be done...

Zim

04-11-2008, 12:21

I guess I could have had a worse turn...

I think for an ambush to "fail" it has to be intended in the first place. More like my plan to hide units in trees in a pathetic attempt to keep them alive another turn failed. :clown:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-22-03.zip

Ferret

04-11-2008, 17:29

I'm as good as dead.

Danes:http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-22-04.rar

_Tristan_

04-11-2008, 17:32

So it is up to the Danes to run the gauntlet...:whip:

Ferret

04-11-2008, 17:34

unless you just take Novgorod and Kiev, then you win.

_Tristan_

04-11-2008, 17:43

I think I have to hold at least one other Danish province over Visby (which I may lose as a matter of fact this turn...)

Plus getting to Kiev will be difficult with three Mongol stacks in the way... I will have to think of something (starts scheming :devil:)

Ferret

04-11-2008, 17:46

I remeber checking the VC in a single campaign to see how close you were to winning and they were (IIRC):
Vilnius
Visby
Novgorod
Kiev
Poznan

_Tristan_

04-11-2008, 17:48

Ok, so only Zim's provinces are missing...

(adjusts sights on target ........ Zim................................:rifle:)

Ferret

04-11-2008, 17:53

actually cancel that I just loaded it up to check and it says that for you to win the HRE must have at least 25 provinces and that you have to take Oslo but definitely not Kiev. Hope that helps :beam:

_Tristan_

04-11-2008, 17:55

Whatever... Anyway, at this point, I might just go for world domination...:devil:

Ferret

04-11-2008, 17:58

:sweatdrop:

deguerra

04-12-2008, 01:58

stop fooling around EF. Clearly for Tristan to win, Denmark needs to have 45 provinces, and all other factions need to have been elminiated.

Doing my turn now, damn your merchant, damn your spies damn your everything!

:clown:

deguerra

04-12-2008, 03:13

The only saving grace of the god-awful land situation I'm now in, is that I think I may have restored my naval superiority through a stoke of genius (utter and complete luck):

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-22-05.rar

phonicsmonkey

04-13-2008, 00:46

teutons are up

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-23-01.zip

_Tristan_

04-16-2008, 12:05

Sorry to have dragged this out, but RL got messy...

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-23-02.rar

Hopefully, this will soon be over... I'm doing my best... (or worst..)

Ferret

04-16-2008, 16:20

yeah hurry up and kill me already! :furious:

:clown:

_Tristan_

04-16-2008, 16:52

I'm on it...

Unless you wish to become a vassal...

Funny how it will certainly be the Danes who will end up being the last survivors after having been the first against whom hostilities started...

Privateerkev

04-16-2008, 22:02

Funny how it will certainly be the Danes who will end up being the last survivors after having been the first against whom hostilities started...

Ah the joys of starting off in a far corner of the map with naval superiority...

:beam:

Ferret

04-16-2008, 22:08

...and then being taken over by an Australian! :clown:

(well a German Australian at least...)

Zim

04-17-2008, 09:55

The HRE is up.

Can't say I expect to last much longer. :sweatdrop:

http://mizus.com/files/pbm/2Teutonic-23-03.zip

_Tristan_

04-17-2008, 10:04

Don't worry, I'll make it as painless as possible... :clown:

Plus, someone might be out sooner than you...

Ferret

04-17-2008, 16:32

you mean me?

Danes:http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-23-04.rar

_Tristan_

04-17-2008, 17:35

Hum, someone...

phonicsmonkey

04-18-2008, 00:01

I think he's talking about me...

deguerra

04-18-2008, 07:08

Mongols are up:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-23-05.rar

I am sad to announce that King Knud has fallen in battle. I had thought with my several naval victories to have bought him an extra turn of time, but apparently Teutonic might knows no bounds...

OOC: Tristan, I dont know what the rules are in this particular game, but it'd be nice if you could inform me of any major battles that involve me, as thats the kind of info I'd get in a SP game. I'm not expecting a screenshot or anyting (though that'd be nice) but just a quick rundown of how my King met his maker would be appreciated.

_Tristan_

04-18-2008, 08:13

Sorry...
But I am a bit short on time atm...

As for King Knud, my army in Visby got reinforcements from the mainland enough so that odds were around 2:1 (or rather 10:7 IIRC)

He was defeated and with no ship to return to, his fate was sealed...

phonicsmonkey

04-18-2008, 09:45

teutons are up

if you have to kill me, be merciful and make it quick...

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-24-01.zip

_Tristan_

04-18-2008, 09:49

Frankly, if all goes well, you'll be gone before next turn...:whip:

:clown:

_Tristan_

04-18-2008, 16:51

Damn those movement rates...

Everybody is still kicking...

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-24-02.rar

Zim

04-20-2008, 01:40

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-24-03.zip

So is it about time to call this a wrap? :clown:

Ferret

04-20-2008, 10:23

Danes:http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-24-04.rar

you can forget about the 'no garrisons on the mainland' rule, you're gonna need one very soon.

deguerra

04-21-2008, 12:07

Mongols are up:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-24-05.rar

The Danes are happy to announce they scored a minor victory and reconquered Hasselholm at the cost of no Danish lives (the Teutonic defenders were not so lucky. Doubtlessly it is a small light point in dark dark times, but one takes what one gets. Surely though it is a sign that God has not forsaken those of the true faith.

On another note, Charles (no idea where he came from, Charles doesn't sound very Danish to me) has been crowned King of the Danes, King of Sweden and King of Norway, after his fathers untimely demise in the Battle of Gotland, at the hand of Teutonic scum. Scandinavia will remember King Knud fondly, and continue his legacy of not appeasing the Orders expansionist, aggressive and godforsaken ways.

Long Live the Vikings!

_Tristan_

04-21-2008, 12:35

On another note, Charles (no idea where he came from, Charles doesn't sound very Danish to me) has been crowned King of the Danes, King of Sweden and Norway.

You should ask Knud's wife... I heard she had an English cook...

Long Live the Vikings!

That's some wishful thinking :clown:

Zim

04-21-2008, 12:37

I don't know, I'd say that Denmark is the other faction most likely to be alive when you've won. :clown:

That's some wishful thinking :clown:

phonicsmonkey

04-21-2008, 12:50

still digging my grave! at this rate I might be able to lie down in it fully by the time I'm dead...

teutons

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/2Teutonic-25-01.zip

_Tristan_

04-22-2008, 22:58

still digging my grave!
Stop digging :clown:

https://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/badlieutenant_bucket/MongolDestroyed.jpg

And now the status report for turn 25 :

https://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/badlieutenant_bucket/Turn25Status.jpg

As you can see, I'm over my provinces count with only two provinces lacking...

Novgorod should fall next turn, Kiev in three at the most (how slow can these siege engines be ?)

The Danish navy has been annihilated except for the lone ships east of Roskilde... Same for Novgorod, leaving the Grand Duke forever (or at least for a long time) stranded in Finland (say hello to Santa for me... :clown:)...

In Germany, Potsdam is poised to fall next turn and Emperor Jens is on the run while the building of several small castles on the border should prevent any rogue raid from our German "brethren" (Yes, I noticed that army sneaking on the map border, EF...:yes:)

So do we call an end to hostilities or do we fight it to the bitter end ?

What amuses me the most is how Denmark was first to make an hostile act towards the Order (even if PK denied it IC vehemently), how everyone followed suite, only to find Denmark almost the only survivor and still able to drag me in a prolonged fight...

Now, if we call this thing off, I will try and find the time to do the write up from where I left off...

I would also like to have a debrief of sorts to lay the basis for any players wishing to have a go at that same campaign and prevent them from making mistakes that make the game almost unplayable for some factions...

For example, for the Mongols to be made playable, some modding is in order to give them better starting generals, a positive King's purse rather than a negative one and campaign objectives to reach...

Anyway, is the save for Novgorod...

http://www.mizus.com/files/pbm/2Teutonic-25-02.rar

Zim

04-22-2008, 23:01

I'd be perfectly happy to end it here but it's up to the other two guys fighting you. :clown:

_Tristan_

04-22-2008, 23:03

Let's wait for their answers...

I'll see that tomorrow...

Time to take a well-deserved rest...

Ferret

04-22-2008, 23:05

well I don't stand a chance and after we're gone I doubt deguerra can take on the order alone but I don't mind continuing. I didn't really go out with the bang I had hoped for...

_Tristan_

04-22-2008, 23:06

Anyway you want it...

I'm prepared to go on fighting even if I feel like I'm going after a cripple...

(no, not you, your faction...:clown:)

Privateerkev

04-22-2008, 23:16

What amuses me the most is how Denmark was first to make an hostile act towards the Order (even if PK denied it IC vehemently), how everyone followed suite, only to find Denmark almost the only survivor and still able to drag me in a prolonged fight...

The game starts off with Lithuania and the Order at war. Lithuania, Novograd, and Denmark agreed before the game even started to spank the Order because we thought it would be AI controlled. Novograd and Lithuania wanted to expand and Denmark did not want Novograd to expand into Denmark. :clown:

When you took over, all three of us decided to go forward with the plan. Poland played footsie with us, Mongols were quiet, and HRE was not co-operative. What I did on turn 1 was simply the first move of something the three of us agreed to do anyways. I felt bad that I couldn't help out more in the beginning so I helped how I could, which meant blocking that one strait.

As for denying it IC, of course I did! I was amused that you kept pushing me to admit it. :laugh4:

As for Denmark starting it or leading anything, not really. I just agreed to be the first to antagonize the Order. I was in the position to do so, so I did it. But of course I would deny it IC. We were in a fight to the death from turn 1. I wasn't going to help you out. :D

There was no leader. The three (and later more) of us simply agreed to things. We all feared the Order and wanted them stamped down as soon as possible.

deguerra

04-22-2008, 23:33

Well PK, I hope I have done your faction proud. As it stands, I lost the baltic "colonies", but other than that Scandinavia (minus Finland and Gotland) is still united under Danish rule.

Now of course, if pressed, I could prbly lose all this in ten turn (esp. given it's Tristan)

And so I would be only too happy to concede victory to the Order. Well played Tristan, and please do share all the juice gossip on how exactly you keep pulling these off!

Zim

04-22-2008, 23:37

Anyone want me to use a diplomat to vassalize myself to Tristan or give him territory? So he can get that win screen he deserves. :yes:

Privateerkev

04-22-2008, 23:51

Well PK, I hope I have done your faction proud. As it stands, I lost the baltic "colonies", but other than that Scandinavia (minus Finland and Gotland) is still united under Danish rule.

I think you did as good as anyone could have done against Tristan. He is a great player and if he plays an auto-resolve monster like the Order, he's the best player. To win, we would have had to pile on him with ALL the other factions from turn 1. But he kept us just enough divided to pick us off one by one. Poland kept trying to buy time so they could figure out who to join and it cost them their faction. The mongols kept changing players and when a permanent player came, the war was very far along. EF tried to play a HRE friendly to the Order and we didn't twist his arm hard enough early on like we should have. We didn't ally up in the game fast enough which caused Lithuania and Novograd to ambush each other by accident. The game ignores alliances made solely through PMs...

I feel like we just bumbled our way through the whole war. My only success was getting naval superiority for the time I was playing. Danish boats rock in this campaign until gunpowder. :2thumbsup:

Zim

04-23-2008, 00:05

Not only did a permanant Mongol player come in late, but MOSH had let all of their territories rebel and put them in awful debt. :sweatdrop:

Privateerkev

04-23-2008, 00:13

Not only did a permanant Mongol player come in late, but MOSH had let all of their territories rebel and put them in awful debt. :sweatdrop:

Yeah, Mosh was an interesting cat. He once yelled in the first game that people should be skipped if they don't play their turns but then he took foooooorever to play his turn.

I think you guys should play this game over but make Tristan play the Mongols... Or the Norwegians... :clown:

Zim

04-23-2008, 00:16

I remember that. He also made fun of me for sending a pm IC. :clown:

I won't be joining a new game when this ends. I need to cut back on hotseats before the new KOTR starts, if I want to start writing stories for my characters again.

Yeah, Mosh was an interesting cat. He once yelled in the first game that people should be skipped if they don't play their turns but then he took foooooorever to play his turn.

I think you guys should play this game over but make Tristan play the Mongols... Or the Norwegians... :clown:

phonicsmonkey

04-23-2008, 00:21

Stop digging :clown:

darn it, the dirt doesn't even cover my face properly...

Well played Tristan, you steamrolled over everyone in a frighteningly efficient display of hotseat mastery! Congratulations on a deserved victory!

As for the Mongols, it's not strictly true that MOSH let all their territories go rebel - a lot of that happened in the turn or two after I took over

but I was already in debt and losing close to 2k per turn, and I couldn't garrison them properly

that financial loss went up to 6k per turn after I lost all my lands, and when I tried to take one of them back my mongol horde was soundly defeated by...woodsmen!

So I was effectively en prise from my first turn...

I decided to keep my armies rather than disband them and leave myself defenceless, and for a time I harboured plans of taking my three remaining stacks and going on a rampage behind teutonic lines.

Zim persuaded me not to go on a suicide run, and I helped him to acquire most of my lost territories on the understanding that by strengthening Novogorod I might be able to help the war effort, and in the far flung future perhaps get some of my lands back and work my way out of debt.

by the end of the game I was 100k in the red!

I think the Mongols are playable, but would require some serious diplomacy from turn one to ensure that they could turtle for a while and build up an economy to offset the -2.5k king's purse

modding that out and replacing it with a positive amount would certainly help

as would being able to fight battles against the AI - mongols SUCK in autoresolve...

still, I hope I made the most of what I had

deguerra

04-23-2008, 04:39

Hey guys,

Was thinking this in the aftermath of this hotseat having finished (and I do realize Zim just said he didn't want another current one). Anyway, neither of these ideas is currently terribly relevant, but I just wanted to throw them out there to see what people thought:

1. I would love to do a Ran no Jidai (Shogun mod for RTW, not out yet though) hotseat once that finally comes out. I call dibbs on that idea :D

2. I had this idea because I'm trying to roleplay Scotland in the Britannia hotseat atm, and struggling with it a bit, because at the end of the day it is just my mind doing the thinking. So I thought about perhaps getting another player's opinion, and that lead to thinking of perhaps getting another player into the faction.

Basically I wonder if it would be fun/doable to do a hotseat with more than one person per faction. What it might end up with is a mini-KotR mixed with a hotseat. Obviously, though, this has the huge disadvantage that it would make turns take at least twice as long (depending on numbers of players, I suppose) which is why I thought trying it in a kingdoms campaign with less factions first might be better.

In any case, just some thoughts on where we could take hotseating from here to keep it fun. And to gang up on the Frenchie.

:clown:

_Tristan_

04-23-2008, 09:46

Well played Tristan, you steamrolled over everyone in a frighteningly efficient display of hotseat mastery! Congratulations on a deserved victory!

Thanks... :bow:

I think the Mongols are playable, but would require some serious diplomacy from turn one to ensure that they could turtle for a while and build up an economy to offset the -2.5k king's purse
modding that out and replacing it with a positive amount would certainly help

Mongol playability is linked to a positive King's Purse...

Having played as Norway, whose King's Purse decreases over time, I can tell you that once money starts lacking, you're out however good you may fight...

So congratulations, Phonics for keeping the Mongols alive for so long...:2thumbsup:

In any case, just some thoughts on where we could take hotseating from here to keep it fun. And to gang up on the Frenchie.

:clown:

Come on... I'm waiting for you...:boxing:

I think you did as good as anyone could have done against Tristan. He is a great player and if he plays an auto-resolve monster like the Order, he's the best player. To win, we would have had to pile on him with ALL the other factions from turn 1. But he kept us just enough divided to pick us off one by one. Poland kept trying to buy time so they could figure out who to join and it cost them their faction. The mongols kept changing players and when a permanent player came, the war was very far along. EF tried to play a HRE friendly to the Order and we didn't twist his arm hard enough early on like we should have. We didn't ally up in the game fast enough which caused Lithuania and Novograd to ambush each other by accident. The game ignores alliances made solely through PMs...

I feel like we just bumbled our way through the whole war. My only success was getting naval superiority for the time I was playing. Danish boats rock in this campaign until gunpowder. :2thumbsup:

I remember dark times at the start of the campaign when I had my lands divided north and south with Lithuania in the way. Then Denmark started attacking my Estonian settlements and only sheer luck got me out of it...

If Zim had joined at that time, I would have been done for good in these parts...

I also tried real hard to bring Doug to remain neutral, seeing how we were already fighting in the Crusades game...

I feel also a bit of shame for taking on PerfectOne but seeing how I would need a strong military and real fast, I had to gain access to Christian converted lands and that meant either Poland or Germany and Poland was nearer the front line and EF seemed amenable to neutrality...

The money influx I got from the death of Lithuania and Poland made me gave me an awesome military power, through recruitment centers and sacking money to afford the high tier units Christian-converted lands permit.

One thing though PK, if you had concentrated on me (while you had naval superiority) I would have been very worse off...

I have to admit that Order spearmen are la creme de la creme when it come to auto-resolve, add some Christ Knights and nothing stands in your way...

Even burgher pikemen are killers...

My best answer to the numerous attacks I faced was to use my infantry to garrison the cities and castles and provide support in case of invasion and use cavalry forces as a fast-response task force (due to their high movement rate) enabling them to fight more than once in a turn if possible...

To answer Deguerra about my auto-resolve magic, I can't even start to explain it... I think it is part pure luck, part long thinking, considering what probable odds I will have and attack only (or almost) when odds are at least 3:1 in my favour (in my estimates... I have been wrong more than a few times but with no terrible results hopefully...:sweatdrop:)

Mostly, I have been able to use other players mistakes to my benefit while I hope I didn't commit too much : such as Doug not besieging Konigsberg while in range or stationing his Faction Leader on a bridge thus making it easier to kill him, or PK dividing his forces while attacking Pernau thus enabling me to defeat one army at a time..

But I can assure you that it requires a lot of time, running through all characters and settlements one by one to consider every option and find the best order to accomplish things in to achieve the best result...

By the end, turns would require as much as four hours of play (with a lot of intervening time playing the turn in my mind...)

I am going to try and update my write-up but I'll need to go through a lot of screenshots to remind me exactly of how things unfolded...

One more thing : that game went too fast... I didn't even get to recruit a single Ritterbruder (whether Mtd or Dism.) but I had a great deal of fun fighting you all...

Privateerkev

04-23-2008, 15:58

I remember dark times at the start of the campaign when I had my lands divided north and south with Lithuania in the way. Then Denmark started attacking my Estonian settlements and only sheer luck got me out of it...

If Zim had joined at that time, I would have been done for good in these parts...

Zim did join us on turn one. It was partly his idea because he wanted Baltic settlements. It just took him a few turns to move his army. Novograd is a big place...

I also tried real hard to bring Doug to remain neutral, seeing how we were already fighting in the Crusades game...

From the impression I got, Doug was playing a very stubborn Lithuanian Grand Duke. Which makes sense. I told him that if he wanted peace with the Order, I would give Zim a Baltic settlement or two and we could all have peace. But Doug felt he had to take you down now so I agreed.

I feel also a bit of shame for taking on PerfectOne but seeing how I would need a strong military and real fast, I had to gain access to Christian converted lands and that meant either Poland or Germany and Poland was nearer the front line and EF seemed amenable to neutrality...

I don't feel bad. PO was trying to play both sides against the middle. But he didn't communicate much. If your going to try to be crafty, you have to interact more with your fellow players... :laugh4:

One thing though PK, if you had concentrated on me (while you had naval superiority) I would have been very worse off...

Believe me, I threw everything I could at you. The stuff in Scandinavia never would have reached you in time to make a difference. I just maxed out my Estonian build queues and spammed the Baltic with viking ships.

Mostly, I have been able to use other players mistakes to my benefit while I hope I didn't commit too much : [...] or PK dividing his forces while attacking Pernau thus enabling me to defeat one army at a time..

I screwed up. I messed around moving stuff and ran out of MP. I did not have enough MP to combine the forces. I refuse to re-load so I just uploaded the save and lived with my mistake. :embarassed:

There is one massive advantage the Order has that has not been mentioned. As a turn 1 faction, they always get their MP restored after they are attacked. That is a huge advantage in Hotseats that you don't have to worry about in SP games.

_Tristan_

04-23-2008, 16:42

Zim did join us on turn one. It was partly his idea because he wanted Baltic settlements. It just took him a few turns to move his army. Novograd is a big place...

That is what I meant in fact... If his armies had arrived only a bit sooner, I would have had a much tougher fight facing me...

Even if Zim's attack had coincided perfectly with Doug's advance into my lands rather than having followed closely on it, it would have streched my forces so thin, they would have had to break at some point... The little timelapse between the Lithuanian and Novgorodian waves allowed me to recover enough to fight back...

Too bad you got out of the game at that point (though Deguerra is one tough customer as well) but I missed our bickering...:2thumbsup:

There is one massive advantage the Order has that has not been mentioned. As a turn 1 faction, they always get their MP restored after they are attacked. That is a huge advantage in Hotseats that you don't have to worry about in SP games.

Something I didn't know when I chose the Order... If you remember our discussion at the time, I mainly thought that it would be a shame to play a Teutonic Hotseat with the AI Order getting screwed on turn 4 or 5 by human players ganging up on it...

I know now how huge an advantage that is... Even your defeats can become victories in the next turn when you're in that position whereas a defeat in any other position soon turns into a debacle, if the player pushes the point, which I rarely failed to do...

As for pointing out some of your mistakes, believe me I learned from them and they are a reason why I take so long thinking almost every possible course for my units before committing for a move... No reloads means no option for f***ing up...

*edit*

I wonder in the hypothesis of a new game being launched if it is possible to mod so that the Order gets to play last and make Lithuania, Poland or Novgorod first...

What would be the result then ?

One last thing on the turn order advantage : it almost forces you to blitz in that your attacks prevent your enemy from attacking in his turn thus buying you time...

"Offense is the best defense" was the motto of the Order in this game...

That should explain a lot of what went down once I realized how things worked...